Leon that sounds completely reasonable to me. After all, according to Jesus, Father allowed man to divorce for that very reason. Mat 19:8
---josef on 10/11/15|
Josef: Allow me to explain. The Bible clearly shows God's "PERFECT & PERMISSIVE" will. His perfect will originates "from Him" for our good (blessing). God's permissive will originates "from the hardness of men's hearts". God uses it for teachable moments full of consequences, e.g., the Israelites wanted a king like all the other nations, so, God (the King of kings) tolerated their rejection of Him by heaping consequences (hard lessons) upon them.
The same holds true for multiple wives. God's perfect will was/is ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN. But, again, because of the hardness of men's hearts, He used their sin to correct His people, i.e., to teach them the error of their ways.
---Leon on 10/10/15|
To clarify and reinforce the point I am attempting to make. Although Father did not condemn multiple wives, He advocated the wife of a mans youth, in my mind this implies the first, and warned against treating her unfairly or unfaithfully. Pro 5:18-22>Mal 2:14,15
---josef on 10/10/15|
"Then how do we explain the plural wives that are mentioned all through the OT?" Personally I find no need to explain it, It is what it is, and it is a fact that Father allowed it without rebuke. I do not argue those facts, that would be futile. I simply stated the criteria for marriage based on what i've read in the bible concerning it. If I have missed something, besides the fact that men had multiple wives, please point it out. I could speculate as to why that was allowed, if anyones interested in speculation. Otherwise I will keep the speculative to myself. The fact that multiple wives was not Father's ideal for His chosen can be found in requirement concerning His chosen King, as well as the reason for it. Deu 17:17
---josef on 10/10/15|
\\The only O.T. exception, according to the "law of Moses" was to "raise up seed unto ones brother" Deu 25:5\\
Then how do we explain the plural wives that are mentioned all through the OT?
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/10/15|
Yes Leon, concerning this subject we are in complete agreement. Third witness for a biblically based marriage and it's criteria is 1Co 7:2-4. One husband, one wife, otherwise the following would not be applicable to marriage. "To avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife." The only O.T. exception, according to the "law of Moses" was to "raise up seed unto ones brother" Deu 25:5
---josef on 10/10/15|
///"...the Bible-based one?" THE FIRST.---josef on 9/30/15
"What criterion defines a "Biblical marriage"?... "...he which made them at the beginning made them male and female...For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they...shall be ONE FLESH?...ONE FLESH.." Mat 19:4,5,6---josef on 10/7/15///
Yes Josef!!! The Bible shows, throughout, when men had multiple wives a plethora of consequential problems follow. The overall Bible example is Sarah giving Abraham her servant Hagar to be a surrogate wife to bear them a son. We know the "TURMOIL", then & now, that followed their action. When they usurped God's authority, sin abounded.
---Leon on 10/10/15|
a metaphorical marriage, but few details about it.
What preacher married them? Where is the contract written?
When was it consummated?
Where was the wedding feast? Where are the children?
---StrongAxe on 10/8/15
Contract 1? Old Covenant.
Contract 2 renewed: New Covenant, with the same wife.
Consumated: Start Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
...Children? Really? Think about it
Hos_1:10...number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, ...there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
---Trav on 10/9/15|
where is your biblical examples of remarriage for a woman who's husband/s are living without consequences of death or the challenge of fornication or adultery except Hosea and Gomer.
---Carla on 10/9/15|
You said: Furthermore, we can see the turmoil & consequences in David's & Solomon's lives resulting from having multiple wives.
While one cannot argue with this, 'turmoil' is not a qualification for 'sinful' or 'non-biblical', since polygamous marriage was permitted under the law of Moses. In some cases, it was REQUIRED. For example, with levirate marriage. If a man died childless, his brother was to marry his widow. There was no exception given if the brother was already married.
---StrongAxe on 10/8/15|
Leon why are you adding something that is simply not there the continuance of Matthew 19:9 verse 10 can you please look it up and post it furthermore before David was Adam and Eve where is Adams second wife before the death of Eve???? Kings can sin, men can sis, women can sin this is the first example prior to satan that sin can abound. God is transparent and can order a donkey to talk however he did not instruct, therefore he pardons whom he will and punishes who he will that is why we do not have the option to call a spade a spade as the most high gives the example of saying "... I will have mercy upon whom I shall have mercy..."
---Carla on 10/8/15|
...God's "ONE FLESH" standard for marriage is found in G2:21-24 (also Mark 10:6-9)...
David's first marriage to...Michal was...legit... But, when she married another man (during David's outlaw years), David was free to marry again. The problem was, when David became king, he took Michal as wife again & then married many other women wherein he had a harem of women " & children". God's rule is "ONE FLESH".
---Leon on 10/7/15
Furthermore, we can see the turmoil & consequences in David's & Solomon's lives resulting from having multiple wives.
---Leon on 10/8/15|
What is your source for saying which of David's marriages were legitimate, and which weren't?
The prophet condemned David for Bathsheba - because he murdered Uriah (murder was forbidden, he was never condemned for any other multiple marriage). Solomon was condemned for his multiple wives - because they led him to idolatry (which was forbidden, while polygamy was not). Other than for secondary offenses, none of the old testament polygamists were ever condemned for polygamy per se.
This describes a metaphorical marriage, but few details about it. What preacher married them? Where is the contract written? When was it consummated? Where was the wedding feast? Where are the children?
---StrongAxe on 10/8/15|
I agree Josef & Carla, "the first". God's "ONE FLESH" standard for marriage is found in G2:21-24 (also Mark 10:6-9). The Bible says if one's spouse dies, one is free to remarry. The same applies if an unbelieving spouse leaves a believing mate. The believer is free to remarry.
David's first marriage to Saul's daughter (Michal) was the legit one. But, when she married another man (during David's outlaw years), David was free to marry again. The problem, when David became king, he took Michal as wife again & then married many other women wherein he had a harem of women. God's rule is "ONE FLESH".
---Leon on 10/7/15|
What criterion defines a "Biblical marriage"?
---StrongAxe on 10/5/15
You've held the "criterion" in your hands but never seen or considered it.
The book of the greatest marriage and re-marriage that has ever taken place and will again take place in the history of the universe.
GOD with Israel.
Jer_3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD, for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
Isa_62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
---Trav on 10/7/15|
"You quoted Jesus. Does this mean that we are to ignore everything the Old Testament says about marriage?" I don't understand your question. Why should we? Jesus simply expounds upon what is written in the O.T. The LORD took one of [Adam's] ribs, made a woman, brought her to the man, "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh". Gen 2:21-24 The only specified criterion, one man + one woman = one marriage. The two becomes one, and what Father joins together, let no man divide.
---josef on 10/7/15|
You said: You cannot undo scripture to fit any purpose Christ corrected what Moses yes Moses said was incorrect
Yet, in this case, undoing scripture is exactly what Jesus himself did. Also, if Moses's commands were admittedly incorrect in this area, how can we trust that he was correct in any other area?
I asked: What criterion defines a "Biblical marriage?
You quoted Jesus. Does this mean that we are to ignore everything the Old Testament says about marriage? In that case, this describes a New Testament marriage, not a Biblical Marriage (since the Bible includes both testaments).
---StrongAxe on 10/7/15|
You cannot undo scripture to fit any purpose Christ corrected what Moses yes Moses said was incorrect, Moses permitted their requests based on their hardened hearts, Now withstanding did he not say IN THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO... okay what was not so... simplicity is hard to follow but lies are easy to detect when you have the truth in front of you, go ahead go read the account again Matt 19 but this time in context and read verse 10 you understand not becasue it was not given to you....
---Carla on 10/7/15|
"What criterion defines a "Biblical marriage"?
In the words of Jesus, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Mat 19:4,5,6
---josef on 10/7/15|
One main thing that the Church is not doing today is they are not separating Law from Grace. David and Solomon were under "the Law",that is the Law of Moses which was given to the children of Israel. And under Law, it was perfect lawful for a man to have more than one wife. We know that they both took wives from the Gentile nations who served strange gods. However, the Word says in Romans 8:28, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." All things meaning good and bad things.
---valerie on 10/6/15|
Carla (and also Bill and josef):
You said: The one where he had one wife!
How do you say that such a marriage from the Bible is Biblical, yet David's and Solomons (not to mention Abraham's and Jacob's), also from the Bible, are not? What criterion defines a "Biblical marriage"?
---StrongAxe on 10/5/15|
The one where he had one wife!
---Carla on 10/5/15|
1 Samuel 18:27 > it looks like Saul's daughter, Michal, was "David's wife", but Saul gave her to Palti (1 Samuel 25:39-44). This was before David took anyone else to be his wife, it seems from what I've read.
The first wife of Solomon that I read of is Pharaoh's daughter > 1 Kings 3:1.
But I can't say these marriages were Biblical, if they involved covenants with people who were not of God.
I would say Abigail is the definition of a real woman of the LORD > 1 Samuel 25. And David married her, but he also took other women as wives. Enough was not enough for him > 2 Samuel 12:8.
I would say in a truly Bible-based marriage we help each other get real with God and learn how to love any and all people.
---Bill on 10/1/15|
Neither. They did not have the Bible then.
---KarenD on 9/30/15|
"Which one of David's or Solomon's multitudinous marriages was the Bible-based one?" The first.
---josef on 9/30/15|