Were Fossils Before Adam
Were the layers of sediment, in which most of the fossils are buried, laid down before or after the creation of Adam and Eve?
Moderator - Happened during the flood. It was an event not millions of years.
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---micha9344 on 1/6/16
Helpful Blog Vote (8)
Good point Jerry. Thank you.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/8/16|
Fossilization is a process not easily effected. When an animal dies, whether on land or on the sea bed, it WILL be completely ravaged by forces of nature - be they scavenger animals, insects, bacteria or decomposition by oxygen. To preserve a fossil, the creature must by quickly and substantially buried in an oxygen-free and critter-free environment. This condition is most commonly met in the sea floor turbidite activity associated with Noah's flood.
The multi-million year gradualism taught by Lyell and adapted by Darwin does not meet the criteria for fossil formation and is at variance with the fossil record.
---jerry6593 on 4/7/16|
you are welcome and thank youI agree it is interesting.
Some things may be speculation, however, I also think God reveals truths as He wills, and some truths are like pieces of a puzzle, there all along but as one thing is disclosed, another comes to light
---chria9396 on 3/22/16|
Jerry, I have explained my point of view concerning the three earth ages, biblically, on several occasions, with scriptural references, so to each his reach, If you can't grasp, it's not your to have. I'm not attempting to chance your view, or anyone else's, and I will certainly not change mine. We will simply agree, to disagree. For every man will have to give his own account, and I am comfortable with mine. It's all probably irrelevant anyway
---joseph on 3/22/16|
joseph: "Jerry I am pushing no theory, I am simply stating my belief"
I can accept that. But one has to wonder where such a belief came from. Certainly not from a straightforward reading of the Bible. If it is to allow long ages for the deposition of fossilized life forms, it is poor scholarship scientifically as well as ecclesiastically.
---jerry6593 on 3/22/16|
Exo 20:11 parallels the Genesis account perfectly.
I agree , however I do not see the word created in that verse.
Are you asserting that heaven, as well as earth, was "re-made"?
No. I'm asserting that the heavens and the earth were restored. The heavens being represented here by the atmosphere, firmament, and the visible sky above it.
Did we get a new sun, moon and stars?
No, "Let there be" suggest a calling forth of that which was or had previously been, causing that which is called forth to exist, appear, or be established.
Jerry I am pushing no theory, I am simply stating my belief, to be received or dismissed. Nothing I share is ever intended to be dogmatic:o)
---joseph on 3/21/16|
joseph: "Jerry Exo 20:11 documents a restoration, not a creation. It documents when Father renewed the face of the earth."
I cannot agree. Exo 20:11 parallels the Genesis account perfectly. It reiterates the 6-day Creation and the establishment of the seventh-day Sabbath - the creation of our week. Like Genesis, Exo 20:11 also details the creation of "heaven" as well as earth. Are you asserting that heaven, as well as earth, was "re-made"? Did we get a new sun, moon and stars? I think you are pushing a pet theory too far. The glaring question is .... WHY?
---jerry6593 on 3/21/16|
Good questions Christina. Questions that can not be answered rationally apart from the realization of an Earth age prior to our current one. What we read in Genesis chapter 1, is the creation in verse 1, and the restoration beginning in verse 2. Jerry Exo 20:11 documents a restoration, not a creation. It documents when Father renewed the face of the earth. Psa 104:30 As I have said before, created and made are different words, with different definitions, both in english and Hebrew, and the only creations mentioned after verse 2 are whales and man. However if you can prove me wrong, with scripture, please do. I am certainly not looking to mislead or deceive anyone. If you believe I am, and can prove it, I will acknowledge my ignorance openly.
---joseph on 3/20/16|
Jerry, just curious, if the big freeze you mention was concurrent with Noah's flood, just how did that happen? It would seem the freeze that resulted in the mammoth being preserved with buttercups in its mouth would have had to be instant...what could have caused such a drastic change in temperature?
And why did that temperature drop not freeze Noah and occupants of the ark?
---Christina on 3/18/16|
Chria 9396 thanks for the kind thought. Sorry I was so slow. All that is very interesting to me and I hope someday we have truth to see instead of speculation and guess work of men.
---Darlene_1 on 3/18/16|
joseph: The Bible does not corroborate your ancient race before Adam theory. God Himself wrote:
Exo 20:11 For in SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and EARTH, the sea, and ALL that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
There were no long ages before Adam. Otherwise God was lying when He wrote Exo 20:11.
As for frozen mammoths, the big freeze was concurrent with the flood of Noah, when global cooling resulted from volcanic activity (and its atmospheric pollution) associated with the breakup of the "fountains of the deep" (Gen 7:11).
---jerry6593 on 3/18/16|
I appreciate your response and it is also my thought that some beings (rather than mammoths, dinosaurs) were responsible for the cave paintings referenced. By pictographs I meant specifically ancient Hebrew pictographs, the earliest written words that I am aware of, as well as the basis for the Hebrew alphabet or aleph-bet, which are indeed pictures and may be considered paintings. Both paintings and pictographs were means of communication, and the development is quite interesting.
---chria9396 on 2/6/16|
You are quite welcome.
---joseph on 2/3/16|
you have nothing to apologize for
and thank you.
---chria9396 on 2/1/16|
I apologize for the misrepresentation Chria, I should have written, when you've 'questioned' anything that I, or anyone else has written here, you have always been honest enough to say so, and why, without being disagreeable. Your gentle tactfulness towards others, demonstrates your christian love for others.
---joseph on 1/31/16|
Great points Thank you josesph.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/1/16|
You are welcome joseph and thank you too. The same could be said of you, and is always appreciated.
I dont recall ever having disagreed with you, however, there have been things I have not immediately understood...but that has been just one of the things Ive enjoyed in discussions, insights to consider, truly a blessing.
---chria9396 on 1/31/16|
I am happy to hear that Chria9396, (Christina) simply because I know from experience that before you offer any agreement you take the time to research the subject under discussion. And that if you disagreed, you would be honest enough to voice that disagreement. While giving your reasons for doing so, albeit with kindness, tact and diplomacy. Thank you:o)
---joseph on 1/31/16|
-joseph on 1/30/16
---chria9396 on 1/30/16|
Chria9396 on 1/30/16, my point exactly. And a change in climate that would produce a freeze capable of freezing a grazing mammoth before he could swallow the food in it's mouth, [food which "would have needed much warmer weather to grow, let alone bloom",] would have had to have been cataclysmic. As far as I know there is no record of such a cataclysm in the record history of this earth age, biblical or otherwise. However, for some it is hard to believe that by the "word of God" the world or age of the wooly mammoths was overflowed with water, and perished, apollymi in the greek language. It was rendered useless. Father restored the earth for man by renewing it's face yet left evidence of the prior age.
---joseph on 1/30/16|
an interesting thing about the discovery of a mammoth with buttercups in it's mouth is that it is indicative of a climate unlike what we see in that region now. Buttercups and the types of grasses found would have needed much warmer weather to grow, let alone bloom...which is also true of layers of coal or coal seams...at one time there had to have been lush vegetation since it would have to have been abundant in order for the coal to exist.
---chria9396 on 1/30/16|
In my last post the word 'lust' was meant to read lush.
Another reason that I believe the freeze, and subsequent freezing of the mammoths and plant life in the aforementioned areas was a part of a prior earth age rather than a result of the flood of Noah's day, is because there are accounts of a "mammoth's mouth being filled with grass, which had been cropped, but not chewed and swallowed." (A. S. W., Nature, Vol. 68, July 30, 1903, p. 297). Which indicates a sudden death caused by a sudden freeze rather than a gradual freezing.
Also stated and documented is that "The grass froze so rapidly that it still had "the imprint of the animal's molars" (Lister & Bahn, Mammoths: Giants of the Ice Age, p. 74).
---joseph on 1/29/16|
Joseph I have heard about the three Earth Ages,I wish that if that is the case there would be more evidence in the Bible which there isn't. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/29/16|
"joseph, I do not believe in evolution, and believe you are correct concerning earth ages and more. I do have questions I intend to look into, such as coal seams,,," Please do Chria:o) I would expect nothing less.
"The physical earth is not only snow and ice now, so you must be referencing something other than todays entire physical earth." Yes, I was referring to the Arctic regions, and the geographical area of the New Siberian Islands where wooly mammoths were found, there had to have once been lust forrest in those areas to have produced the coal seams that are now found there.
---joseph on 1/29/16|
joseph, I do not believe in evolution, and believe you are correct concerning earth ages and more. I do have questions I intend to look into, such as coal seams,,,
"the entire earth was as the garden of Eden, and called the garden on God". Yes. However, "where there is now only snow and ice, as presently evidenced by the coal seams found there." The physical earth is not only snow and ice now, so you must be referencing something other than todays entire physical earth.
I do not know of one verified, documented frozen human either.
---chria9396 on 1/29/16|
I agree with the moderator.
Scientist look for long periods because in order for their theory to work. Millions of years are required.
I used to believe in evolution.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/27/16|
Darlene, Chria, as previously posted, I believe there was an earth age prior to this one based on Isa 45:18>Gen 1:2>Jer 4:23>2Pet 3-7 One where the entire earth was as the garden of Eden, and called the garden on God, uniformly warm with lush forests where there is now only snow and ice, as presently evidenced by the coal seams found there. I've also acknowledged that I believe there were living beings inhabiting that earth. Beings that Job 38:7 refer to as sons of God, that belief based on Eze 28:13-Isa 14:13, If there are pictographs from that era, the artist were these beings. That belief is based on the following, with so many frozen mammoths being found from that age, I do not know of one verified and documented frozen human.
---joseph on 1/27/16|
Chria 9396 I don't know about the dating of Pictographs because it is done by a method devised by men but I know this the Pictographs are found all over the world with Dinosaurs of different kinds and they didn't draw their own pictures. That means men and Dinosaurs lived at the same time. I love finding out about earth's history. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/27/16|
National Geographic had an article "The First Artists" which raised some questions for me.
There are numerous discoveries scientists date long before what some consider the biblical account of man, 6-7 thousand years ago. Some believe Neanderthals not only used tools but also may be first in displaying ability in art.
Question, who or what painted numerous animals, hunters etc? The Chauvet Cave is one example that includes a painting of a mammoth.
Also, when were the first pictographs?
I had thought pictographs, in particular Ancient Hebrew would be first, but what I've read seems to indicate otherwise and I have not really given it much thought previously.
---chria9396 on 1/27/16|
I looked it up and here are butchered Mammoth bones all across North America. There were also found butchered Mastodon bones therefore it is safe to say human's had to be living during the time they were alive. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/24/16|
Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Mammoths, dinosaurs, and humans were all created on day 6, hence all were created about 6000 years ago.
---micha9344 on 1/22/16|
Joseph look up Pictographs across the world or be specific with the Country and you can see the humans hunting the huge elephants/Mammoths also the ones where early humans drew Dinosaurs,all were drawn in caves or on rocks somewhere. You don't need an expert to tell when they became extinct because you can see they weren't when humans drew those pictures. How else could they know what they look like? God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/22/16|
"Paleontologist say the man and Mammoths existed at the same time". I disagree, mammoths became extinct during the latest ice age, which I believe was caused by a global flood and a sudden removal of the planets heat source, as evidenced by the discovery of several mammoths found frozen in the tundra as recently as 2013.
There is a least one occasion were one was found in siberia with buttercups and green grass still in its mouth, which implies that the freeze was sudden. No Human remains from that period has ever been found.
"We did not exist according to them in the Jurassic or Triassic periods." I agree, man has existed on earth, according to biblical accounts, for only 6 to 7 thousand years.
---joseph on 1/20/16|
Paleontologist say the man and Mammoths existed at the same time. We did not exist according to them in the Jurassic or Triassic periods.
By the way they are now in the Billions of years for the age of the earth. Not millions.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/19/16|
Some argue that the footprints of animals and humans are the result of an overlay of non human that just happened to appear human,I have no opinion on it myself. I do know that the Pictographs in many different Countries are done by ancient people and they show prehistoric animals with people and without people in the picture. Where there are people one shows hunters killing a Mammoth,it's claimed by experts they didn't exist at the same time. There are also pictures of Dinosaurs. Facts don't lie. Extinct people didn't lie for effect now. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 1/19/16|
When I read Genesis I feel certain that chapter 1 and chapter 2 are telling us exactly the same things except that chapter 1 gives us a quick run down of what happened on each day and then chapter 2 tells us about each day in detail.
From verse 4 of Genesis 2 God seems to be saying "...and this is how I did it all"
We do this ourselves in everyday conversations, sometimes we will recount an event with a few 'headlines' but then go on to tell a very detailed version of the same event.
---Rita_H on 1/19/16|
Adam and Eve were also created on the sixth day (Genesis 1:26-27).
---Steveng on 1/17/16
Technically, Adam/Israels scriptures do not say Adam was created in in Genesis 1.
Adam and Eve were a different creation as Gen 2 describes that there was not a man to till the earth. Gen 5:1 Book of the Generations of "Adam".
Gen 1:29 men hunted and gathered off the land.
---Trav on 1/19/16|
Josef: "Which suggest to me, that they were created earlier."
Exo 20:11 For in SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
EVERYTHING was made during the SIX DAYS of Creation. All the fossil layers were buried rapidly during the flood of Noah.
---jerry6593 on 1/18/16|
How does one reason that human foot prints were found on the same layers as dinosaur foot prints. How does one reason that art work, various ancient artifacts and cave drawings throughout the world having humans riding "large lizards."
It is written that every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind was created by God on Day Six of the creation week (Genesis 1:25) including dinosaurs. Adam and Eve were also created on the sixth day (Genesis 1:26-27). And what was the behemoth mentioned in Job. Many people, even today, see and describe large land and sea creatures.
---Steveng on 1/17/16|
Josef, you have a unique way of interpreting scripture. Apparently
The verses you quote clearly state they refer to those parts of creation which God brought into being on the FIFTH day. Ok. If that is clear to you, then perhaps I am mistaken. However I do see the words create, made, and brought forth as different words with different meanings, both in english and hebrew. I have simply shared what I believe as a response to your question on 1/13, which I assumed was related to my post on 1/13.
---Josef on 1/14/16|
Josef, you have a unique way of interpreting scripture. The verses you quote clearly state they refer to those parts of creation which God brought into being on the FIFTH day.
---Rita_H on 1/13/16|
\\Gen 1:9 "9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."
If the water was gathered into one place, then it follows that the land mass was gathered into another place.
And what do we call the gathering of all the land mass into one place, class?
Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/13/16|
Rita H according to scientific research "95% of the fossil record consists of shallow marine organisms such as corals and shellfish. Within the remaining 5%, 95% are algae and plant/tree fossils, including the vegetation that now makes up the trillions of tonnes of coal, and the other are invertebrate fossils, including the insects. Thus the vertebrates (fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals) together make up very little of the fossil record, in fact only 5% of 5%, which is a mere 0.25% of the entire fossil record." During the restoration animals were brougth forth from the earth and sea as opposed to created. Gen 1:20,24. Which suggest to me, that they were created earlier.
---josef on 1/13/16|
Josefs post is well thought out.
Gen 1:9 "9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."
Would like to comment on the use of the word form.
KJV translates H8414
vain (4x), vanity (4x), confusion (3x), without form (2x),wildernesswilderness, (2x), nought (2x), nothing (1x), empty place (1x),waste (1x).
Also place of chaos.
Considering these and more, waste fits.
---Chria9396 on 1/13/16|
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If there 'were' fossils before Adam had been created what would they be fossils of?
Prior to creation there were no animals, no plants, no people so what 'was' there to be fossilized?
We either believe the bible as it IS or we believe all things happened in a different way from that which we read in scripture.
If some things are different from the scripture account then what can we actually BELIEVE from God's Word. Once we pick holes in it what are we left with?
---Rita_H on 1/13/16|
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Period)
"And the earth 'was' (became) without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the 'deep'" (abyss, a surging mass of water.) [the first flood, which laid the first layers of sediment on an already existing earth]). "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the 'waters'."(the result of that flood). The earth wasn't created in verse 9, It 'appeared', (as becoming visible or distinguished). It was revealed. It was created in verse 1, as documented in verse 2. Since animals were made after their kind, I believe the layers of sediment, was laid both before and after the creation of man.
---Josef on 1/12/16|
I wrote that "I believe the layers of sediment, was laid both before and after the creation of man." After giving this some thought, I would like to revive this statement. Since there is no evidence of undisputed human fossils, and comparatively speaking, very few mammal fossils, the fossil layer could only have been laid down prior to the flood of Noah's day, or there would be at least be a few human and, I believe, more mammal fossils found. Also considering the fact that Father stated that He would 'destroy' (wipe out, blot out, obliterate, exterminate-Strongs H4229) man, beast, creepy thing, and fowl from the face of the earth, Gen 6:7 I have to believe the fossils were laid down before the creation of man.
---Josef on 1/13/16|
Jerry, no doubt....
---john1944 on 1/8/16|
john1944: "The whole earth was flooded before Adam too."
There were no animals and no death (2 days) before Adam.
The flood was brought to rid the earth of sinful man.
The scientific evidence of the fossil layers is consistent with a catastrophic worldwide flood - not multi-million-year gradualism.
---jerry6593 on 1/8/16|
The whole earth was flooded before Adam too.
---john1944 on 1/7/16|
I second what the moderator said. To suppose anything other than what the Bible says is fantasy.
---Leon on 1/7/16|
I agree with moderator.
---Rita_H on 1/6/16|