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Finish It Here Nov 2016

Finish It Here___Nov 2016

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//Matt. 16:13-20. Jesus actually calls Peter "Simon Bar Jonah", his real Jewish name and not Cephas or his nickname.---Mark_Eaton

No, no, Simon' father name is John.

So Scholars were confused until they REALIZED the connection between Jonah in the OT and Peter in Acts.

Only times Joppa is mentioned.
Both sent by God to Gentiles: Nineveh and Cornelius

Both Jonah and Peter REFUSED God's instructions.

Acts chapter 10
V23 Peter.., and some of the believers from Joppa went along..

Jonah 1:2-3
"Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry...3But Jonah rose up to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. So he went down to Joppa,...

Remember the OT always prefigures the NT.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/17/16


this doesn't tell you WHICH books are, in fact, scripture. Is Esther? Is Laodiceans? Is Enoch? ---StrongAxe on 11/17/16

Laodiceans and Enoch are not in The Holy Bible, which is based on ancient documents, with guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Scripture G1124

graf-ay'
From G1125, a document, that is, holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it): - scripture.

Whether Law, History, Prophecy, Poetry, or Covenants, each book of the (Holy) Bible IS Scripture because the thrice HOLY God Authored the books, which = each book IS Holy Writ (Scripture).
---aservant on 11/17/16


aservant:

You wrote: 2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Yes, yes, we all agree on that, but this doesn't tell you WHICH books are, in fact, scripture. Is Esther? Is Laodiceans? Is Enoch? Tradition says yes, no, and no, but WHY? All traditional scripture books mention God - except Esther. Paul references his own letter to the Laodiceans. Jude quotes verbatim from Enoch. The scriptures themselves do not have a table of contents. The list of books that we consider scripture is determined by extra-scriptural TRADITION.
---StrongAxe on 11/17/16


But how do you know WHICH books are books where God is speaking, and which ones where he isn't? ---StrongAxe on 11/15/16

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL = ALL, not some. Just like God infuses the Holy Spirit into those He calls, elects, chooses, sanctifies, and reserves, He infuses the Holy Spirit into the writers of the Bible, and Spiritually dictates to their human spirits EVERY WORD they write from inside their bodies.

So God is dictating EVERY word, in EVERY chapter, in EVERY book of Scripture.
---aservant on 11/16/16


john9346:

You wrote: Sir, please bring your objections to the "Scriptures." where God Speaks Alone.

But how do you know WHICH books are books where God is speaking, and which ones where he isn't? You can't know that except by evidence that is OUTSIDE scripture.

Repent and look to the God of "Scripture." to save you from his wrath before it is to late for you to repent sir...

Repent from what? Please be specific. If you're accusing me of some specific sin, please tell me which one.
---StrongAxe on 11/15/16




strongaxe:

"No. I can also show it by showing its negation leads to an absurd contradiction."

Sir, thank you for admitting you cant Historically Evidentially show the church fathers taught that they decided the "Scriptures."

"If you have no idea what books are scripture, and which ones aren't, how can you base any doctrines on them alone?"

This objection was addressed see prioron this posting.
---john9346 on 11/15/16


strongaxe:

"As I said earlier - how do you know (say) the Satanic Bible isn't scripture?"

This objection was addressed on prior posting, "Finish it here October 2016)Sir, I'd strongly recommend you please with the utmost to you read the church fathers and read the "Holy Scriptures."

Sir, please bring your objections to the "Scriptures." where God Speaks Alone.

Repent and look to the God of "Scripture." to save you from his wrath before it is to late for you to repent sir...

May the Lord Jesus guide you today,


John
---john9346 on 11/15/16


not exactly sure what you are saying....
---kathr4453 on 11/14/16

I am saying that our Western anger against the RCC clouds our interpretation of Scripture.

Look at Matt. 16:13-20. Jesus actually calls Peter "Simon Bar Jonah", his real Jewish name and not Cephas or his nickname. Then Jesus says:

Matt 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it"

IOW, Jesus says to Simon, "that you are a rock and upon this rock I will build my church".

Seems to me that Jesus may have been saying what the RCC claims.

But our Western animosity at the RCC will not allow us to believe that.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/15/16


//I asked WHY the letters in Revelation never mention Rome,//

As I said, BECAUSE the People in Rome WASN'T doing anything wrong according to your logic.

Remember, God had COMPLAINTS about the 7 Churches in Asia.

Are you upset because Jesus didn't give you the Keys to His Kingdom?

//John was not Peters successor nor was John.//

Because John DIDN'T know the answer to Jesus' Question. Only Peter knew

//no mention whatsoever of Peter being in Rome with Paul at the time of Pauls death in scripture,..Unless SCRIPTURE can show this, it's not scriptural fact.--kathr4453

THAT'S CRAZY!

So since their DEATH wasn't recorded in the Bible that means they are still ALIVE?

You are making up rules.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/15/16


kathr4453:

You wrote: Peter was never in Rome

How could you possibly know that? It's true that the Bible never mentions him being martyred there, but it doesn't say ANYTING about his later life, nor that of any of the apostles either. The history of the church progressed long after the books of the bible were written, and we must take note of it. It didn't suddenly shut off, only to be turned on again a millenium and a half later, when Martin and Luther and others decide to reboot it.
---StrongAxe on 11/15/16




First if all Nicole, I never said Rome didn't have a church, or rather believers in Rome. I asked WHY the letters in Revelation never mention Rome, or Rome being the mother church, and why Revelation was written to the churches and not by Peters successor FROM ROME. John was not Peters successor nor was John in Rome when Revelation was written.

Secondly there is no mention whatsoever of Peter being in Rome with Paul at the time of Pauls death in scripture, or any suggestion there was any communication between Peter and Paul at that time since both addressed several people at the end of their epistles. Unless SCRIPTURE can show this, it's not scriptural fact.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/16


john9346:

No. I can also show it by showing its negation leads to an absurd contradiction.

If you have no idea what books are scripture, and which ones aren't, how can you base any doctrines on them alone? As I said earlier - how do you know (say) the Satanic Bible isn't scripture? You must FIRST determine that it isn't scripture, and ONLY THEN can you know that you should have nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter HOW you know if it is or isn't. But you MUST make that determination FIRST.
---StrongAxe on 11/14/16


//Peter was never in Rome,---kathr4453 on 11/14/16

You amaze me.

You were born in the 20th century.

So the many Scholars born in each of the 19th centuries BEFORE you are WRONG and you are Right.

First you forgot about the Church was in Rome.

I have no IDEA what you thought the epistle to the Romans was about?

You write stuff without thinking and you call me an idiot?

Do you believe the in tradition that Paul died in Rome? Why? It's NOT in the Bible.

Clement of Rome (d A.D. 97) wrote that Peter and Paul were martyred together at Rome.

Since the man was in Rome at the time Peter was alive and you were NOT, can we trust his testimony?

You are so angry.

WHY?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/14/16


Mark_Eaton, not exactly sure what you are saying....that the RCC church fathers are correct in Peter being the Rock and foundation of the Church? Yes according to RCC doctrine they believe that. However they have the same scriptures as we, or vice versa, and church fathers or not, scripture teaches scripture, and truths are backed up in 2's or 3's, and there is no scripture qualifying for a fact that the RCC's interpretation of that ONE verse is correct. The Church is Christ, a HEAVENLY BODY OF BELIEVERS FITLY JOINED TOGETHER. There is no human within the body of Christ MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANOTHER. Not even Peter. Peter was never in Rome, never a POPE or head of any Mother Church, as there is no earthly mother church God established.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/16


reuben ask, "Which Church Fathers said scripture "First" ??

All of them...
---john9346 on 11/14/16

pls then give one that said that. And their writing!
---Ruben on 11/14/16


strongaxe said, "I have said that Sola Scripture must necessarily rest on the foundation of Canonicity. However, I NEVER said ANYTHING about the early church fathers saying that."

To make sure we understand each other if you say, "Sola Scriptura." must necessarily rest on the foundation of Canonicity you must show this to be fact. In order to show this to be fact you can only do so by reading what the church fathers "Stated." regarding the "Scriptures."
---john9346 on 11/14/16


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strongaxe states, "The early church fathers didn't worry about the issue of canonicity at all - which is why there was later a problem, since it WAS an issue that needed to be dealt with, since some people believed some works to be canonical, while others didn't - and it's hard to base sound doctrine on foundations that some accept but others don't."

Actually, if you read the church fathers writing concerning the "Scriptures." you would know it was a matter of defending what was all ready known not deciding later.

In addition, the issue arose later because other false books were being circulated such as the book of Saint Thomas, the gospel of Philip, etc.
---john9346 on 11/14/16


reuben ask, "Which Church Fathers said scripture "First" ??

All of them...
---john9346 on 11/14/16


//scriptures at that time were OT scriptures. So they didn't need to run to church fathers.---kathr4453

Why do you think Saul disliked 'The Way'?

Because they were teaching Jews and others doctrine NOT in the OT.

The early Church Fathers WERE the ones SPREADING the GOOD NEWS that Jesus is God risen from the DEAD!

Acts 24:14..I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect.

Acts 24:24 He sent for Paul and listened to him as he spoke about FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS.

The Words Jesus Christ ISN'T in the OT.

So if they ONLY had the OT as Scriptures it MEANS they also OBEYED the Church Fathers.

Fathers meaning: being seeds to the Church for us Christians TODAY.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/14/16


your first wrong...Secondly...
---kathr4453 on 11/11/16

Thank you for your response.

I am often wrong. I admit it openly and I accept that I see dimply and only in part.

As I read the Apostolic fathers, I see where our Western understanding is flawed.

Such as your ongoing argument with Nicole about Peter.

I think it is possible we do not accept the plain statement by Jesus that "upon this Rock I will build my church" to mean Peter because the RCC says it means Peter.

Our anger, frustration, and protestation against the RCC would cause us to not believe anything the RCC says, including changing the explanation of plain Scripture.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/14/16


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john9346:

I have said that Sola Scripture must necessarily rest on the foundation of Canonicity. However, I NEVER said ANYTHING about the early church fathers saying that.

The early church fathers didn't worry about the issue of canonicity at all - which is why there was later a problem, since it WAS an issue that needed to be dealt with, since some people believed some works to be canonical, while others didn't - and it's hard to base sound doctrine on foundations that some accept but others don't.
---StrongAxe on 11/14/16


TODAY, we have the Holy Bible from Genesis to Revelation. The BEREANS searched the scriptures daily to check and make sure what was being preached was true. The scriptures at that time were OT scriptures. So they didn't need to run to church fathers. The promise of the redeemer Jesus Christ was promised in the OT, and all scripture pointed to Jesus Christ. The Eunuch asked Philip to explain Isaiah 53, re, about Jesus crucifixion etc. The GOSPEL is the Only thing that matters. It was the early church fathers that totally twisted the Gospel. Thank goodness the GOSPEL is something every one can read , without having to have it butchered through any church fathers...Calvin, RCC, Westminster Confession of Faith, etc.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/16


All the church fathers when referencing the "Scriptures." always stated that everything came downfrom the Scriptures "First." then to others.

They never stated, the "Scriptures." "Second." as you your claiming.
---john9346 on 11/11/16

Which Church Fathers said scripture "First" ??
---Ruben on 11/14/16


John, we're all burned out on Calvinism. YOU have nothing new to bring to the table. And you use the same old TIRED ASSAULT we've all put up with for years from Calvinists, namely "you don't know what Calvinism is". YES WE DO JOHN. They have eventually all been kicked off CN because of their rude and crude approach. Are you any different?
---kathr4453 on 11/13/16


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strongaxe:

"(I never claimed THEY stated it.)."

If you state as you have been stating that "Sola Scriptura." depends on "Canonicity." then that is indeed what you are promoting.

"This fuzzy ambiguity led to a certain amount of confusion later, which is why church councils were convened to specifically clarify that issue."

Yes, this is now canonicity like I continue to state to you different categories not the same thing and showing you from the very, "Church Fathers." themselves they didn't hold to your view sir...

---
---john9346 on 11/13/16


1 Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Word for word. The foundation IS JESUS CHRIST. Then verses 12-13 warn us how WE are to build upon this foundation, wood hay and stubble, or GOLD SILVER AND PRECIOUS STONE. Paul is not saying be careful how you build upon Peter, or be careful how you build the physical Vatican church and what materials you use. That would be like saying ALL CHURCHES built with WOOD will burn. Surely wood burns, but Paul wasn't teaching how or what a church is suppose to be built with in the way of physical properties. And the verse DOES NOT SAY, "which was already laid by Jesus." It says the very foundation IS JESUS CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/16


kathr said, "John, you obviously don't read or take the time to understand what one believes."

No ma'am, it is you who don't read or take the time to understand what one believes.

As I read many of your responses to others, they are so full of judging, condemning, condescending, and being critical of others which is not of the Lord Jesus Christ...

What I have come to know about you is you "Attack what you don't know." you consistently attack other bloggers beliefs with false representations...

Just remember this, "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Jn13:35













---john9346 on 11/13/16


//Revelation NEVER once mention a church in Rome//

I guess because God DIDN'T have any COMPLAINTS with Church in Rome!

So you REJECT Paul's LETTER to the Romans?

Romans 1:7-15
To all in ROME who are loved by God and called to be his HOLY PEOPLE:...because your FAITH is being REPORTED all over the WORLD...V15b preach the gospel also to YOU WHO ARE IN ROME.

//God called upon John, not Peter to address these churches, long AFTER Peter's death.---kathr4453

BUT, Jesus told Peter NOT John to Feed His Lambs, Tend His Sheep and Feed His Sheep. John 21:15-19

Kathr, YOU are part of the Lambs and Sheep Peter was COMMANDED to feed and tend!

I will answer your question: read John 21:20-22 V22 is for you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/13/16


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Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come, and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne,

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia, unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Nicole, it is interesting that Revelation NEVER once mention a church in Rome, or ROME being THE mother church. And Look, God called upon John, not Peter to address these churches, long AFTER Peter's death.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/16


Kathr, you keep claiming 'Jesus is the Foundation' as Scripture which it isn't WORD for WORD.

'Jesus is the Foundation' is ONLY found in the bible according to Kathr.

//And then you make some big fuss about people getting angry.//

Only when people get angry as you are NOW because I prove and defend my faith.

//How did you ever make it through college or nursing school?//

By Paying ATTENTION and giving the Correct answers on my State Boards.

BTW, which I PASSED with flying colors.

//How many people have you killed because YOU don't LISTEN?---kathr4453

WOW

You are is really angry.

You need to take a deep breath.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/12/16


john9346:

You wrote: All the church fathers when referencing the "Scriptures." always stated that everything came downfrom the Scriptures "First." then to others. They never stated, the "Scriptures." "Second." as you your claiming.

(I never claimed THEY stated it.)

That is because they all had a notion about what "scripture" meant, without formally defining the term. This fuzzy ambiguity led to a certain amount of confusion later, which is why church councils were convened to specifically clarify that issue.
---StrongAxe on 11/12/16


//Jesus and all the apostles are the foundation.//

Jesus isn't the Foundation. Catholic translation. Ephesians 2:19-22

Some refuse to reason, I will try with you.

That Catholic translation still states ONLY the Apostles are the Foundation.

...And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,..---Samuelbb7

If I said to you "These are the crew and I am Samuel the Captain of the ship."

Are you not part of the Ship's Staff? Yes.

But who is who?
Does not the JOB description tell you where EVERYONE BELONGS?

Are you expecting to see the Captain mopping the floor and the a crew member at the HELM yelling out orders? NO!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/12/16


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Mark_Eaton, your first wrong by saying we are ALL of the BOC. Secondly, telling someone they are saved by being water baptized is MALPRACTICE of the worse kind, MURDERING SOULS. Misleading souls. False teachers are NOT part of the BOC. Maybe you find that statement arrogant, but Paul , Peter, John and even Jesus said it and one would not call any of them arrogant.

Murdering souls is far worse than NOT LISTENING and misapplying what someone has said. If she does it here, she MUST DO IT IN HER EVERY DAY LIFE including her job. Her job is to take instruction from her DR's. 300cc instead of 30cc WILL KILL SOMEONE.
---kathr4453 on 11/11/16


strongaxe,

All the church fathers when referencing the "Scriptures." always stated that everything came downfrom the Scriptures "First." then to others.

They never stated, the "Scriptures." "Second." as you your claiming.
---john9346 on 11/11/16


Cyril of Jerusalem said, ""This seal have thou ever on thy mind, which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures."
---john9346 on 11/11/16


Irenaeus said, ""We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith."
---john9346 on 11/11/16


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How did you ever make it through college or nursing school? How many people have you killed because YOU don't LISTEN?
---kathr4453 on 11/11/16

This statement is hatred, anger, and sin, pure and simple.

I am saddened that a family disagreement in the BOC comes to this point. And that you would even sarcastically accuse someone of killing others.

Please stop posting if you cannot contain your anger. This is not righteous anger.

Arrogance says I know the Scriptures better than you.

Humility says I only know part and see dimly, so let us learn together.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/11/16


Nicole I have shown you many times in 1 peter and in Ephesians the Bible says Jesus and all the apostles are the foundation.

Here is the Nasb. Look up the passage in Catholic translation.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,

In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Why do you say these words don't mean what they say?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/11/16


//why can't you read?//

Yes, but I NEVER read your KIND of Scripture:

---Nicole_Lacey on 11/11/16

My KIND of scripture is right from scripture...word for word. The problem Nicole is you NEVER READ. And then you make some big fuss about people getting angry. YOU are the only one getting angry......WHY, because you are being faced with SCRIPTURE YOU HAVE NEVER READ OR STUDIED. Your answer shows that very clearly. We are discussing 1 Corinthians 3 Nicole.

How did you ever make it through college or nursing school? How many people have you killed because YOU don't LISTEN?
---kathr4453 on 11/11/16


//why can't you read?//

Yes, but I NEVER read your KIND of Scripture:

//The foundation IS Christ Jesus.---kathr4453 11/7/16

Can't admit it ISN'T in the BIBLE?

John 1:42 In the bible. Cephas Aramaic name for Rock

//Or is this just a game to you?//

No. I didn't make Peter the foundation of Jesus' Church. Jesus DID.

The Church is Call the BODY of Jesus for a Reason.

NEVER called the Head of Jesus.

Or Jesus is called the FEET of the Church.

Peter was placed as the FEET of the Church by Jesus NOT me!

//Don't bother answering back Nicole. You will never pay close attention to scripture, or what someone is saying.---kathr

Moderator NOW? Do you see how POMPOUS you are?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/11/16


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12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Nicole, why can't you read? Or is this just a game to you????? The verse says IF ANY MAN BUILD UPON THE FOUNDATION...it will be revealed by fire. So NO Nicole, we do the building here. I know you can't understand the verse, because it goes against the RCC doctrine.

Don't bother answering back Nicole. You will never pay close attention to scripture, or what someone is saying.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/16


//We don't build upon Peter...//

That's RIGHT! Jesus DOES the building NOT YOU OR ME!

//I believe the verses make that clear.//

Yes, they are CLEAR!

So WHY are you adding words as if they are SO clear?

You keep adding Jesus' Name as the foundation when IT DOESN'T exist!

Be careful because you are breaking Rev 22:18 RULE!

It's simple, just say it's your interpretation and move on because it ISN'T in the Bible.

//Having Peter as some foundation of this truth makes no sense.---kathr4453 on 11/9/16

Because you KEEP using your own logic instead of Jesus' Words in Passages.

Just because you don't understand, or refuse to believe DOESN'T mean YOU can MAKE UP SCRIPTURE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/10/16


strongaxe states, "That doesn't help, if we don't know WHICH writings are scripture."

Sir, it does if you apply them.

You asked me how do I know Revelation is "Scripture."

Have you not read revelation where John the apostle use the guidelines in stating, "The Infallible Voice of God."
---john9346 on 11/10/16


strongaxe states, "What we have is a concensus of church leaders who accept some books as scripture and not others - and that is opinions of men."

Remember, we address this prior and when asked to support your claim you couldn't and when I pressed for proof you weren't able to give proof.

Its not logical to state a claim and not be able to substantiate...

Just to repeat something over and over again doesn't make it truth logic says truth must be known and substantiated..

To deal inlogic is to deal with facts and evidence sir you should know better.
---john9346 on 11/10/16


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strongaxe states, "Your "Scriptural Guidelines" are also opinions of men."

Sir, how can thoseScriptural Guidelines be of man when they come from the "Scriptures." themselves??
---john9346 on 11/10/16


The Old Testament is set by the Jewish people. Not the Church Fathers.

The question is if they were right and I agree they were on the Scripture. Then should not those Scriptures be the guide to truth and not the ideas of men.

So sola scriptura is the teaching that all Doctrine must agree with Scripture.

For instance Moses Berg teaches that there is no such thing as Adultery so sharing wives is not a sin.

But can you agree with that?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/10/16


John, you obviously don't read or take the time to understand what one believes. Secondly, I could care less what any church fathers taught. The GOSPEL is taught right from scripture and in no way needs to be filtered through the hands of anyone to explain it to me. The Holy Spirit does a fabulous job at teaching, as is HIS JOB. We really don't need commentaries John, and any opinion of MAN is nothing more than commentary. We have been given the gift of discernment as well to know if something is of the truth or not.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/16


kathr said, "John, I have notices you put all your faith in what the church fathers believe, as well as statements of faith etc etc. You have shown over and over you are taught by man and not by God or the Holy Spirit."

1. You didn't have understanding of what was being discussed between me and strongaxe.

2. When you can take a course in understanding Church History (church faters, statements of faith) I will be glad to have a mature dialog with you, just remember being judgmental and condemning is not a answer to the questions...

3. Everybody's Theology/doctrine is at one time was taught by a man. You see, understanding the church fathers and statements of faith shows this factually.
---john9346 on 11/10/16


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Just to point out a few. John, this knowledge comes by having a personal relationship with the Lord. You should understand the CONTEXT if you are truly saved.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/16

Kathr, ma'am, are you truly saved??

Have you repented of being a sinner who has sinned against God your creator who is holy, and righteous?

Is your faith solely in the Lord Jesus Christ alone who is God and who went to the cross to bear God's Wrath against sin?

Have you trusted Christ alone to forgive you of your sins against him and to grant you Eternal Life??

If you haven't I plead with you today to repent and look to Christ alone to save you from his wrath which abides on sinners today.
---john9346 on 11/10/16


john9346:

That doesn't help, if we don't know WHICH writings are scripture. How do we know? God didn't tell us - he gave no table of contents. What we have is a concensus of church leaders who accept some books as scripture and not others - and that is opinions of men. Even so, there are slight differences about which is which among different Christian spiritual traditions, even to this day.

Sola Scriptura depends on canonicity, not based on teachings of church fathers, but upon very basic principles of logic. You can't rely on scriptures unless you know what they are. You can't build a house on a foundation before that foundation is laid first.

Your "Scriptural Guidelines" are also opinions of men.
---StrongAxe on 11/10/16


strongaxe states, "I didn't say SCRIPTURE is part human and part divine.."

And I didn't say you didn't I only stated clarity to you that the "Scriptures." can not be both, they are either "Divine." or "Human."

In regards to the church fathers, I brought them up because for the last Several Blogs you have insisted that Sola Scriptura depended on canonicity,yet, when asked you have never been able to demonstrate your claim with supporting context.

---
---john9346 on 11/9/16


strongaxe ask, "Please show where, in scripture, by chapter and verse, where each specific book of scripture is listed (i.e. Which book says Esther is scripture? Which books says Revelation is scripture? etc.)."

Well first, let me ask you this do you remember the Scriptural Guidelines for "Scripture." being "Scripture."

I provided them in the same blog before you asked me this question.
---john9346 on 11/9/16


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strongaxe states, "
Not incapable, no. God is perfectly capable of ending evil, hatred, war, world hunger, disease, misunderstand, sin, death, taxes, and all other things we consider heinous. However, based on our own observations about the state of our world, and the abundance of all of the above, we can only conclude that he chooses not to do so."
Sir, so, is this your understanding of God??

That he has not guided man to know himself who is truth?
---john9346 on 11/9/16


Nicole, Paul laid the foundation that JESUS Christ and Him Crucified and risen is the foundation we build upon. We don't build upon Peter. . THE CHURCH Nicole is the HEAVENLY BODY OF BELIEVERS, THOSE BAPTIZED INTO Christ and raised up a New Creature IN CHRIST, not a human being RE Peter, or an earthly church. I believe the verses make that clear. The MYSTERY OF THE CHURCH, is Christ In You...and how we build upon that truth is either wood hat and stubble, or Gold Silver and precious stone. This text has absolutely nothing to do with Peter, the RCC or any denomination for that matter. Our purpose is to grow up intoHIM into the fulness and stature of Jesus Christ. Having Peter as some foundation of this truth makes no sense.
---kathr4453 on 11/9/16


//Paul never once said he laid the foundation of Peter being the foundation.//

No, no, no. Paul SAID Jesus laid the foundation. We know it is Peter because Jesus SAID in Matthew 16:18

***And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH,

Paul agrees and repeats Jesus' Words.

//1 Corinthians 3:10-12
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ---kathr4453 on 11/9/16


You are confused on WHO LAID the foundation.
Jesus laid the foundation.

Or are you claiming Paul lay Jesus as the foundation?

If so, Paul wasn't a believer when Jesus started the Church.

---Nicole_Lacey on 11/9/16


Again Nicole, SCRIPTURE below would disagree with you. Paul never once said he laid the foundation of Peter being the foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10-12

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
---kathr4453 on 11/9/16


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//Nicole YOU blaspheme. Deuteronomy 32:15, 2 Samuel 22:47, Psalm 18:2,Psalm 18:46 Psalm, 62:2 Psalm 62:6, Psalm 89:26, Psalm 95:1
Sorry Nicole but Peter is NOT the ROCK of our salvation.---kathr4453

Changing others' words ISN'T nice.

I said Jesus Called Peter Peter (Rock) and was made the FOUNDATION of His Church.

I NEVER said Peter was our Salvation you did!
PLEASE quote people honestly

Jesus in the New Covenant/NT only calls Peter the Rock and calls HIMSELF the CORNERSTONE.

NT Biblical facts

//Jesus is also the ROCK, clearly stated in scripture.--kathr4453

Then Please clearly cite it from the NT!

Remember the NAME Jesus is ONLY in the NT, that is clear.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/9/16


//I have a chronic illness. Two weeks ago my Mom passed away from the same condition I have.---Rob

I am so sorry about your mother's death.

My mother is still alive, so I will NOT say I understand your pain because I don't.

As for your chronic pain, I am also very sorry for your suffering.

I can say I understand because I been suffering with MCTD since 1992.

MCTD has a prognoses of 12 years to live and it was told to me in 1992.

They added Fibromyalgia with right side numbness head to toes since 1998. 2 back surgeries in the last 3 years.

I am truly praying God will heal you.

It may not seem like it but I REALLY do enjoy sparring with you.

I truly missed you on CN. God Bless.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/8/16


Nicole YOU blaspheme.


Deuteronomy 32:15 ---- then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock.

2 Samuel 22:47 The Lord liveth, and blessed be my rock, and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

Psalm 18:2 The Lord is my rock, ----

Psalm 18:46 The Lord liveth, and blessed be my rock, and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Psalm 62:2 He only is my rock and my salvation, -----

Psalm 62:6 He only is my rock and my salvation:----

Psalm 89:26 --- my God, and the rock of my salvation.

Psalm 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the Lord: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Sorry Nicole but Peter is NOT the ROCK of our salvation.
---kathr4453 on 11/8/16


Nicole_Lacey, I have a chronic illness. Two weeks ago my Mom passed away from the same condition I have.

Yet I'm still of sound mind and I follow the example found in Acts 17-11. If you did this, you would not be Catholic!
---Rob on 11/8/16


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//Nicole_Lacey. I was trying to be nice in not calling her an IDIOT.--Rob

WELCOME BACK!

Missed you. BTW, can you expanded on your educational background?

//..does your cognitive rationalization say that can't be because a DOOR can't be the Cornerstone?//

Rob is rubbing off on you.
You CAN put a DOOR in the Cornerstone, but NOT in the Foundation! Address 1Cor 3:18.

Colossians 1:18: Head goes on TOP.

Foundation is UNDERNEATH.

Since Head means top, Jesus knows what He is saying since He said I will build My CHURCH ON PETER.

//Jesus is also the ROCK, clearly stated in scripture.--kathr4453

MAKING UP Scripture.
"Jesus is the rock" ISN'T in the Bible including YOUR Bible!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/8/16


Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the Church.

Nicole, Jesus also said HE is the DOOR. In saying that, does your cognitive rationalization say that can't be because a DOOR can't be the Cornerstone? And vice verse?

Colossians shows your misrepresentation of Matthew. And there needs to be at least two or three scriptures to witness to Matthew. Jesus is also the ROCK, again clearly stated in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 11/8/16


strongaxe ask, "Please show where, in scripture, by chapter and verse, where each specific book of scripture is listed (i.e. Which book says Esther is scripture? Which books says Revelation is scripture? etc.)."

Well first, let me ask you this do you remember the Scriptural Guidelines for "Scripture." being "Scripture."

I provided them in the same blog before you asked me this question.
---john9346 on 11/7/16


In the past, I mentioned the cognitive skill level of Nicole_Lacey. I was trying to be nice in not calling her an IDIOT.
---Rob on 11/7/16


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No 'is' is speaking about the Pronouns used twice in 1 Cor 3:1 Meaning no one can start another church because Jesus ALREADY laid the foundation which Jesus spoke of in Matt 16:18

If you are claiming Jesus is the foundation, then who is the other foundation? And name the other 2 trying to lay Jesus as a foundation?

//you to lay ANOTHER FOUNDATION and say that it IS Peter, is going against scripture.//

No I claim you are laying another foundation, because Jesus laid Peter as His foundation for His Church. Matthew 16:18

//It is interesting Nicole that NO SCRIPTURE SAYS PETER OR THE RCC IS THE FOUNDATION.---kathr4453

No SCRIPTURE is Matt 16:18 I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/7/16


1 Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ////

WHICH IS CHRIST JESUS. That is clear. The foundation IS Christ Jesus. "IS" is the word here Nicole that defines who,the foundation is. So for you to lay ANOTHER FOUNDATION and say that it IS Peter, is going against scripture. You are the one who has misrepresented this verse. But you are bent on believing your misrepresentation BECAUSE your whole foundation of Peter, etc etc is dependent on it. I realize your desperation in your wanting to believe as you do. And because of that desperation, it's useless discussing anything with you. It is interesting Nicole that NO SCRIPTURE SAYS PETER OR THE RCC IS THE FOUNDATION.
---kathr4453 on 11/7/16


strongaxe states, "I didn't say SCRIPTURE is part human and part divine.."

And I didn't say you didn't I only stated clarity to you that the "Scriptures." can not be both, they are either "Divine." or "Human."

In regards to the church fathers, I brought them up because for the last Several Blogs you have insisted that Sola Scriptura depended on canonicity,yet, when asked you have never been able to demonstrate your claim with supporting context.
---john9346 on 11/7/16


//And JESUS is also the FOUNDATION,//

Not Scripture.

//1 Corinthians 3:11 so clearly say...YOU reject.//

1 Cor 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ

Interpreting that Passage WRONG.

Jesus LAID the foundation, NOT that He is the foundation.

//AND YOU ALSO REJECT the fact that the CHIEF CORNERSTINE IS THE FOUNDATION.---kathr4453

If you knew about buildings you would reject it ALSO.

Cornerstone tells you WHERE it is going to be LOCATED.

IN THE CORNER!

Again with NASTY Adjectives you said 'silly' 3 times. NOT Christian. Someone needs to go to Confession.

SILLY ME.
Only CATHOLICS, ORTHODOX and JEWS go to Confession.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/7/16


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No one is mad here Nicole. You have made false statements, one that I do not believe Jesus is the chief corner stone. I believe SCRIPTURES shows Jesus is not only the chief cornerstone but also the foundation.

We know Nicole you are defending the RCC. But YOU are the one who comes unglued and rude when shown scripture that the RCC is WRONG. One cannot have a decent conversation with you. You are so defensive and take everything so personal just as Monk did, that it's really impossible to debate with you.
---kathr4453 on 11/7/16


//Nicole, because you LIED here about what I do//

Now who is RUDE?

You are too VAGUE.

State what you CLAIM I lied about you.

//being un for the propose of WHAT...trying to WIN....WIN WHAT NICOLE.---kathr4453

No game. You are MAD because I am defending myself and the RCC.

Because I am not FOLDING you are mad?

Try HARDER if you CAN?

//This website wasn't designed for those who use your kind of tactics, but rather for MATURE folks to discuss.//

Your blog states otherwise.

STOP ATTACKING ME!

Debate or Ignore me.
I can handle either one of your decision.

Throw mud at me, I can duck and YELL back.

At less I don't throw the mud back.

That's maturity!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/7/16


//The view has changed from they burn in hell to limbo to like Nicole they can be in heaven.//

No, you made that up.

Limbo isn't hell. The RCC NEVER said an unbaptized baby goes to hell.

The Church dropped the 'Limbo explanation' because so many people like you believes Limbo is hell.

Limbo isn't hell.

Now She states unbaptized babies (HOW) entry to heaven is a Mystery.

Because we know God is Merciful!

//But then how can they be in heaven if they have committed sin by being born and never went through the rites necessary to be saved?---Samuelbb7

They never committed a sin.

Jesus is the High Priest.

Are you saying Jesus Himself CAN'T or is INCAPABLE of performing the RITES?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/5/16


//That when Born Babies are guilty of having done sin.//

No, it's a YOUR position

The RCC states Original Sin committed by SOMEONE else.

We inherited the sin from an Ancestor.

Just as money.
The Child who inherited billions of dollars did EARN that money, but only inherited it.

Does it means the child DOESN'T own the billions of dollars? NO!

You are quick to understand the money belongs to the child, but you CAN'T understand the passage of sin to the same child??????


//I like your answer Nicole about you believe they go to heaven. But then that is not the official position of the RCC.//

No I KNOW they go to heaven and it is the RCC's official position.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/5/16


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//If aservant thinks that the bread and wine of Communion do NOT become the Body and Blood of Christ, he is not being taught by the Holy Spirit.---Cluny on 11/4/16

And he isn't listening to Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/5/16


If aservant thinks that the bread and wine of Communion do NOT become the Body and Blood of Christ, he is not being taught by the Holy Spirit.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/16


. . . We should never judge the salvation of others. ---Samuelbb7 on 10/30/16

Though God says to "rightly divide", you say we should not form opinions on whether or not the Holy Spirit is inhabiting someone. Yet, ONLY those in whom the Holy Spirit is inhabiting are saved, and are taught truth by Him.

1Jn 2:27 . . . ye need not that any man teach you . . . the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth . . .

1Jn 2:20 (EMTV) But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.


Isn't it important that you read the truth? If you don't judge a person to have the Holy Spirit (salvation), why would you ever consider their teaching?
---aservant on 11/3/16


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