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Finish It Here Dec 2016

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Mark_Eaton, I will also say this again. God does not need or use the Court of human law to determine His definition of being a witness to Jesus Resurrection. Why the witness has to be reduced to our human court system is beyond me....unless it just added mishmash not necessary . The OT Prophecy also GODS WORD testifies to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, needing no human court to qualify if God was a witness before during or after said incident.

The Apostles witness TESTIFIED to the SCRIPTURES is the point Mark_Eaton. Why make the conversation into something else?
---kathr4453 on 12/8/16


They were EYE WITNESSES as well as confirming the witness of scripture.....GOD AS WITNESS.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16

I will try to reason with you one more time. And please, Hanukkah is your discussion with Nicole. This subject is our discussion.

If you see someone bleeding from a gunshot wound, you know that the person was shot by a gun. This is the same as the Biblical witnesses knowing that Jesus was resurrected, because He was standing right in front of them.

However, if a police officer asks you "did you see the shooting" you must answer No because you were not an eyewitness to the shooting. The same is true of the resurrection. No person actually saw the events of the resurrection.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/16


Obviously I am making myself clear.
---Josef on 12/7/16

Not to me. I am trying to understand you, but I must ask you these very direct questions to understand you fully.

Do you believe there are three distinct separate persons with the same Being of God, with all three persons able to be present at the same time, all three persons being unique and individual but inseparable in relationship?

Do you believe that the Word (in John 1:1), Incarnated as Jesus Christ, has the same Being of God, is a separate distinct person and has been in relationship with God the Father from all eternity?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/16


kathr ask, "Show me the verses John."

Gladly, there are many,however, for space sake I will start with a few, Gen 1:1, 26, 3:22, 11:7-8, Isa 6:8, 48:16, Jn 14:16-17, 16:15, Mark 1:9-10, Matt 28:18-19, etc.
---john9346 on 12/8/16


kathr states, "I believe the Lord is so much more interested that we know His Character, His Love, His Righteousness and Judgements Jeremiah 9:24, than His complex makeup that no HUMAN MIND OR BRAIN can possibly grasp the depth of and arrogantly claim to thoroughly explain."

The Lord Jesus doesn't see it your way he states, "

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

To deny the trinity is to deny Jesus meaning you worship a False Jesus who is not of "Scripture."

A false Jesus can not save anyone from Eternal Damnation...
---john9346 on 12/8/16




//Now you want to equate that to a candle burning 8 days NO ONE RECORDED AT THE TIME.--kathr4453

You are SO NARROW MINDED!

They are RECORDED IN THE JEWISH SCRIPTURES!

***The Scroll of ANTIOCHUS:...'After this, the sons of Israel went up to the Temple and rebuilt its gates and purified the Temple... And they sought after pure olive oil to light the lamps therewith, but could not find any, except ONE BOWL that was sealed with the signet ring of the High Priest from the days of Samuel the prophet and they knew that it was pure. There was in it [enough oil] to light [the lamps therewith] for ONE DAY, but the GOD OF HEAVEN whose name dwells there put therein his blessing and they were able to LIGHT from it EIGHT DAYS.'
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/16


John, the doctrine of the Trinity if I'm not mistaken was written by your early church fathers along with other mandated beliefs that people had to take oaths and sign documents to in order to be part of some exclusive club while others who refused to adhear to were beheaded or burned at the stake for being heretics.....yet, nowhere from Genesis to Revelation do I see any group called the ENFORCERS evident in stating one must adhear to John the Calvinists understanding of the Trinity or else they will be accused of denying Jesus Christ.

Show me the verses John.
---kathr4454 on 12/8/16


John, just to be clear, no one is arguing the Bible speaks of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The bible also says the Lord our God is ONE. Jesus also said He is "I AM" who is God, and interestingly enough the Holy Spirit could not be sent to dwell in man until Jesus returned to Heaven.

I believe the Lord is so much more interested that we know His Character, His Love, His Righteousness and Judgements Jeremiah 9:24, than His complex makeup that no HUMAN MIND OR BRAIN can possibly grasp the depth of and arrogantly claim to thoroughly explain. We believe BY FAITH, Jesus is the Christ promised from Genesis 3:15 to His incarnation, prophesied throughout the OT and confirmed in the New when He was raised from the Dead.
---kathr4453 on 12/8/16


Mark_Eaton wrote: "We have no Scriptural account of someone watching the actual resurrection. No eyewitness testimony."

Christians need to go beyond what is written in the bible. There are tens of thousands of eyewitnesses who have written what they saw. Just because it's not in the "bible" it doesn't mean no one witnessed his resurrection. The Holy Spirit will reveal truths to you if you ask.
---Steveng on 12/7/16


Joseph states, "No John, It is you who are confused as to what I believe,"

Sir,listen again, very carefully this is modalism.

Modalists argue there modalism from monotheism.

You might not like this classification but this is the exact teaching of modalism.

Like I have stated you do not seem to know what you believe.
---john9346 on 12/7/16




Kathr states, "What I do know is scripture does not ....lets say Paul or John or anyone insist on a specific doctrine of the Trinity that must be adhered to."

This is patently false from Gen-Rev The "Trinity." is declared.

"Saying there are three individual people is also false doctrine. WE are a triune being...Body Soul and Spirit, but we are not three entirely different separate entities."

False, mankind is not Tryune and 3 persons of "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." is "Tryune." Being and person are not the same thing.

The Scripture declare yes there is 1 "God.",however, the 1 God has revealed himself in 3 person.
---john9346 on 12/7/16


This is what I also find interesting. We are a triune being...body soul and spirit, YET even WE can't understand the complexity of our own triune existance, much less insist we know beyond a shadow of a doubt God's whom no one here has ever seen, touched etc.

When I was a child the Trinity was explained to me like this.. It's like Water, Steam, and Ice. All the exact component but is manifest in three different ways. Is that also WRONG.

Some don't even know the difference between our own body , soul and spirit, and if the soul dies or does not die, or if the soul sleeps,while our spirit is awake in heaven , or if we will have totally NEW bodies with a brand new soul and brand new spirit and on and on.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


Kathr ask, "Ok, Who is changing us...GOD the Father, God the Son , or God the Holy Spirit?"

Ma'am, you are asking me a question that Paul is telling you who is performing this action.

Now who did Paul say is doing this action.
---john9346 on 12/7/16


I would like to also publicly thank Chria9396 for opening her mind to a least make an effort to hear and understand what I am attempting to share concerning this subject. I appreciate it, and appreciate your input.
---Josef on 12/7/16


kathr4453 on 12/7/16 Obviously I am making myself clear. Or at least someone is making an attempt to understand. Thank you.
The Father is represented, expressed, and reflected by His Word. As I shared in a prior post, "I believe Jesus is the only way the Father will ever be physically perceived. Jesus represents the Father in His fulness, for He is the fulness of Deity, embodied. When we see Jesus, we will have seen the Father. As Jesus Himself said, "he that has seen me, has seen the Father."
---Josef on 12/7/16


NIcole, The Holy Spirit does not testify/ witness to nonsense, or fables or hearsay or rumors or fairy tales.

Mark_Eaton, if this is the same Josef that has been on here for as long as you and I, we've shared our understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

What I do know is scripture does not ....lets say Paul or John or anyone insist on a specific doctrine of the Trinity that must be adhered to. It's a very tricky subject, because saying there are three individual people is also false doctrine. WE are a triune being...Body Soul and Spirit, but we are not three entirely different separate entities.

Unless Josef says Jesus is not God, he cannot be accused in denying Christ.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


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Josef believes JESUS IS GOD.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16

I think you need to ask Josef yourself.

It seems to me that Josef denies that the Word (or Logos) was/is a person. I think Josef sees Jesus and the Holy Spirit as modes or manifestations of the Father, not separate persons of their own.

I could be mistaken, but posts like this confirm it for me:

"I see the Word of God as the word, logos (an uttered disclosure) of the Father"---Josef on 12/6/16
---Mark_Eaton on 12/7/16


The Bible, (not the court of Law ) does not dissect those who witnessed the resurrection of Jesus into.."Well, did you actually SEE Him rise up, or just see Him after". BUT those who choose to dissect are making this Into Nicole's MISHMASH. What they witnessed was his ABSOLUTE DEATH, and a resurrected Christ whom Thomas TOUCHING Jesus side of His wounds .... not the side of a hologram. They talked and ate with Jesus after He rose from the dead for 40 days.

Now you want to equate that to a candle burning 8 days NO ONE RECORDED AT THE TIME.

THAT was the conversation Mark_Eaton. . Not the RABBIT HOLE you fell down. They were EYE WITNESSES as well as confirming the witness of scripture.....GOD AS WITNESS.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


//That's WHY we have the Holy Spirit to witness and testify to TRUTH--kathr4453 on 12/7/16

What proof and who's your witness to PROVE you have the Holy Spirit testifying the Truth to you?

You have none!

You are asking us to believe you?

As far as I am concerned, the Holy Spirit has to TELL ME that He is testifying the Truth to you as YOUR WITNESS TO THE TRUTH.

And He hasn't!

Now do you see what Mark is trying to tell you?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/7/16


Nicole, I will only say this once. The Talmud is NOT the Torah. AND the Talmud consists of many different views not just one specific view. There are also two different Talmuds. And Jews do not consider either on the same level as the Torah AKA Scripture. So NO, the Talmud is not said to be scripture. So WHY are you putting it on the same level as scripture when Rabbi's do not.

And please refrain from calling my friends and family members "Protestant " Rabbi's. Your disrespect is appalling, but expected from someone who has not been taught any manners or respect for others. And Nicole, they absolutely do NOT want me to give YOU their name.....I wonder why?
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


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The Greek word pros is NEVER translated as the English word "within" (as inside or within) in the entire New Testament.

That's one definition according to the original copy write of the Strongs concordance, in book form, and it is the definition that fits in this case, considering "the Word" translate from logos, and logos is defined as "something said, an utterance". Speech originates from within.

"Where do you get the insight to translate this word so differently? It changes the entire meaning of the passage." How? The passage reads as it reads, and the meaning, in my view, is clear. Words reflect and express thoughts, and our thoughts are always with us.
---Josef on 12/7/16


"In dialogging with Joseph on his beliefs, he seems very confused on what he believes." No John, It is you who are confused as to what I believe, I apologize if I failed to make myself clear to you.
This is apparently what you are considering modalism, from a previous post, "However, I can accept that the Father revealed Himself in the N.T. In the Person of Jesus, and through the inspiration, wisdom, and power of His Spirit," which He has set apart for our enlightenment. If so, then I am guilty as charged. I am, and will always be, what I understand to be, monotheistic.
---Josef on 12/7/16


Nicole, IF someone here on CN said they just SAW the Risen Lord and spoke to and touched Him, that would not be called HearSay.

Hearsay is if someone said they heard someone say that their little brother told them that his friend at school said.....that is hearsay.

And that is what the 8 day candle burning was....it was NOT documented at the moment it happened, or documented ANYWHERE for that matter, but somehow ADDED to the Talmud 600 years after the fact. NOW if it came down through oral communication from generation to generation, and that going on for 600 years ...that Aunt Gilda said her Uncle Allan said...... Is called HEAR SAY. We see Mary's geanology going all the way back to Adam DOCUMENTED....not hearsay.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


- 1 -
. . . to produce God in three persons, does not sound feasible to me, fully realizing that with the Father all things are possible . . . why?
---Josef on 12/7/16


Since you realize that ALL THINGS are possible, what then is not really feasible to God? Why is it so impossible to believe the 3 are one, especially since Father Authored those words?

Use your logic. Any proof someone created God? None. Thus, God (Father, Word, and Holy Spirit) have always existed BEFORE anything was created. So, God did not produce 3 persons. After creation, they produced God inside of flesh - Jesus.

Lookup Theophany, similitude. See Gen 18:1. Who was Abraham talking to?
---aservant on 12/7/16


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And turning bread Into the very flesh of Jesus...
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16

I have posted over and over that I do not believe in the "real presence" of the Eucharist, and I do not believe that Jesus body shows up or the bread is turned into Jesus body every time we eat the bread of communion.

However, if you want to look at eyewitness testimony verses circumstantial testimony, look at the two events of the resurrection and the ascension. No person was at the tomb when the resurrection happened so what we have as Scriptural facts of the resurrection are from a non-eyewitness source. But at the ascension, there were many who saw Jesus rise up into the sky and told us first hand what they saw.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/7/16


There is no such thing as 'Double hearsay'.

Unless someone here on CN saw the Risen Lord it is 'HEAR SAY'

You HEARD someone say "Christ is Risen."

Reading something is the same thing.

The Jewish people have their Scriptures as we have our Bible.

Our Scriptures isn't more sacred than their Scriptures.

Our Scriptures has the accounts of Jesus' Resurrection, but ISN'T in their Scriptures as their Miracle of Lights are in their Scriptures, but in OUR Scriptures.

Jews CLAIM the Resurrection is FALSE as some on CN CLAIM their Miracle of Lights is FALSE, FABLES AND PAGAN.

Christians are NOT BETTER than Jews.

No matter what a Protestant Rabbi told someone
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/7/16


--Mark_Eaton on 12/7/16

Mark_Eaton, even the most knowledgeable spiritual people could not tell you EXACTLY what or how or define in absolute terms that if others see it differently need to be taught someone else's understanding.

Josef believes JESUS IS GOD. God who was make flesh. Not only was He with God in the beginning but WAS GOD. In other words in the OT the LOGOS was not as some say, already a SON who was already BEGOTTEN of the Father before His incarnation. THAT belief led to many saying Jesus WAS a lesser God subordinate to God the Father. Just ANOTHER convoluted definition of the Trinity some are so dogmatic about they will also say one is denying Jesus if they don't believe it in those terms as well. Hogwash!
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


I define 'pros', as used here, as with or within.
---Josef on 12/6/16

The Greek word pros is NEVER translated as the English word "within" (as inside or within) in the entire New Testament.

Where do you get the insight to translate this word so differently? It changes the entire meaning of the passage.

In other NT passages, the word pros is translated as toward, among, present with, come to you, abode with, send to you, etc.

As you can see, the word pros is used to describe the accompaniment or the movement of two or more persons.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/7/16


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Have we not all one Father? has not one God created us? There is one God, and there is none other but he: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. One God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. God proceeding from God, through God, to produce God in three persons, does not sound feasible to me, fully realizing that with the Father all things are possible. My question would be , why? For love? Is that not one of His reason for creating Angels, and man?
---Josef on 12/7/16


In Context to Nicole's comment to me, was comparing "hearsay" or even double "hearsay" of the Miracle of Lights to Jesus Resurrection, which was not "hearsay or double hearsay"..... For those who want to bring a court of law ruling into the conversation.

And turning bread Into the very flesh of Jesus, also calling that a Miracle needing no eyewitness, again has no scriptural basis.

But Nicole loves her fables and fairy tales and traditions, as so many do.....BUT it's important to know the difference between TRUTH, hearsay, fables, fairy tales, and just out right lies. That's WHY we have the Holy Spirit to witness and testify to TRUTH and we have discernment to know LIES and convoluted mishmash.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


It could be said that It is trinitarians that deny the only LORD GOD.
---Josef on 12/6/16

Really?

And what LORD GOD would that be?

The God in Genesis 1:26 that said "let us make man in OUR image"?

Or the plural God referred to in Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7, and Isaiah 6:8

Or the God who spoke to Abraham in Genesis 19:24 but who Jesus told us in John 8:56 was Him?

Or the God who told us in Isaiah 45:23 that "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" that He is God?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/7/16


John, look up all OT scriptures that say" THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD".. Some saying THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD GOD. AND some say, THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME TO ME.

Now we see:
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ok, Who is changing us...GOD the Father, God the Son , or God the Holy Spirit?

If you answer WRONG then what NAME do we call you?

The Lord our God is ONE.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


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To answer your question yes it is "Modalism." that he is stating.
---john9346 on 12/6/16

I am no theologian. I am no Bible scholar. I do not always know the terms used by you and several others on this website. I confess I have to look them up to gain clarity.

However, I do want to help Josef and David8318 see that what their beliefs are doing is denying Jesus. It may seem insignificant and small to them to them, but the results disastrous.

And the Bible is consistent in its message. Our God is a triune God, in constant and inseparable relationship, three separate persons with one Being of God, with the relationship causing this God to be other-centered, self-giving, love.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/7/16


1Jo 2:22> Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
1Jo 2:23> Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
1Jo 4:3> And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh [as Saviour] is not of God:
Jde 1:4>..denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Mark where have I done any of this?
1Jo 4:15> Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. He that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. This I have done, over and over again.
It could be said that It is trinitarians that deny the only LORD GOD.
---Josef on 12/6/16


The trinity concept according to John. "Jesus is God he is not the "Father." and the "Father." is not the "Son." and the Holy Spirit is not the "Father." nor the "Son." 3 "Separate Persons." who make up the "Being of God."

Three can be as one, but three will never be one, numerically, and the mathematical equation of multiplying one three times doesn't work, because three separate person, mathematically, would be 1+1+1, equalling three. We either have one God or we don't, and no amount or rationalization or attempts at manipulating numbers will change that. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
---Josef on 12/7/16


GO back and read WHY Nicole said there were no witnesses to Jesus Resurrection, comparing that MIRACLE to the supposed miracle of a candle burning 8 days after the temple was rededicated RE the Macabbees. The comparison of the two could not be further from the truth. The Risen Christ is recorded right in the Gospels, speaking to Peter and many AFTER His resurrection. There was not a 600 year delay that only the Talmud records. And the Talmud is NOT the inspired Word of God. It was not recorded in the Talmud by a Prophet, where all Prophecy also has witnesses. THe Resurrection of Jesus was ALSO PROPHECIED in the OT, Psalms 22. No miracle of a candle was...

Scripture also WITNESSES TO SCRIPTURE.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/16


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Joseph states, "The word logos (Word) is used in John 1:1 in the same way it is used in Act 4:31>"..they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word (logos) of God with boldness."

This isPatently False the textualization of Acts 4:23-31 and John 1:1-3 establishes this usage is not the same thing in context.

Logos:

"a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy."
---john9346 on 12/6/16


Mark ask, "If I understand your beliefs correctly, you see the Word as a mode or aspect of the Father, not an individual personality with the same being of God."

Mark, yes this is the teaching of modalism.

In dialogging with Joseph on his beliefs, he seems very confused on what he believes. When I brought up to him on the other blog that he is a "Modalist.", he kept saying that wasn't what he believes and then he would turn right around and state exactly as I previously stated what he believed.

Just like here when you just asked him if it is modalism and he never answered your question, its simple yes or no.

To answer your question yes it is "Modalism." that he is stating.
---john9346 on 12/6/16


"If I understand your beliefs correctly, you see the Word as a mode or aspect of the Father, not an individual personality with the same being of God."

I see the Word of God as the word, logos (an uttered disclosure) of the Father. I define 'pros', as used here, as with or within.

The word logos (Word) is used in John 1:1 in the same way it is used in Act 4:31>"..they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word (logos) of God with boldness.

"You are denying the personhood of the Word.---Mark_Eaton on 12/6/16
Before it was made flesh, yes, however that is in no way a denial of Jesus.
---Josef on 12/6/16


//NEVER DIED!!// aservant.
If Christ never died . . . Christ was never resurrected. ---David8318 on 12/4/16


Lying ---David8318, you are going to continue to look foolish as long as you trust men, instead of trusting what the Author says.

I told you, Jesus' Spirit never died (Luk 23:46 . . . Father, into thy hands I commend (deposit) my spirit:). Spirits do not die - Ecc 12:7, 3:21, Zech 12:1

Christ's flesh died to provide the Blood sacrifice needed for His people - Acts 20:28, and He raised Himself (retrieved the Spirit He had earlier deposited with His Father) - Jn 10:18 in a different type of flesh 3 days later - Mt 28:6
---aservant on 12/6/16


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Where? How? Point it out.
---Josef on 12/6/16

If I understand your beliefs correctly, you see the Word as a mode or aspect of the Father, not an individual personality with the same being of God.

Let us say, you are correct. John 1:1 then has the meaning of only one person with two different modes.

However, in John 1:1 the words "and the Word was with God" in Greek include the pros which means turned toward, or in English - face to face. So John 1:1 says "and the Word was face to face with God".

How can an aspect, mode, or reflection of God be face to face with God? Only two persons can be face to face with each other.

You are denying the personhood of the Word.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/6/16


There is a huge difference between actually witnessing the resurrection and seeing Jesus alive after his death.
---Steveng on 12/5/16

My point exactly.

We have no Scriptural account of someone watching the actual resurrection. No eyewitness testimony.

Yet, we have 500 people seeing Jesus after the resurrection which proves that the resurrection was a certainty.

So both women were correct. I read Nicole saying that there are no eyewitness accounts of the resurrection and I read Kathr proving with Scripture the resurrection by people seeing Jesus afterward.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/6/16


"I will ask you the same thing I have asked David8318 In In Luke 10:22 Jesus tells us that only He knows the Father.--Mark_Eaton on 12/5/16
He goes on to say And those The Son wills or desires to reveal Him.
"Jesus tells us that if we deny Him before men, He will deny us before the Father." To deny Jesus is to reject Him as Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God, and refuse the salvation He's made available to man.
"You are denying that Jesus is God. You are denying that the Word was and is God, and that the Word is Jesus." Where? How? Point it out.
---Josef on 12/6/16


"If you deny Jesus before men, how do you expect to get to the Father?"

Mark this question, as concerning me, has no relevance, It's not applicable.
---Josef on 12/6/16


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Mark_Eaton wrote: "According to a court of law, there were no eyewitnesses to the actual resurrection of Jesus."

And you were there to witness no witnesses? Many more letters and journals were written about the life and times of Jesus that will fill a library. John 21:25

Mark_Eaton wrote: "...there were over 500 witnesses to Jesus being alive after His death.

There is a huge difference between actually witnessing the resurrection and seeing Jesus alive after his death.
---Steveng on 12/5/16


Of course There were witnesses to Jesus Resurrection.
---kathr4454 on 12/5/16

You are arguing over semantics and insulting each other.

According to a court of law, there were no eyewitnesses to the actual resurrection of Jesus. No one saw the stone rolled back, no one saw God's power quickening His body, no one saw Jesus sit up and take off the grave clothes.

But yet, there were witnesses that saw Jesus resurrected, alive from the dead. According to 1 Cor. 15, there were over 500 witnesses to Jesus being alive after His death.

So you are both correct.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/5/16


/And GUESS WHAT, I refuse to argue this with you,//

Promises, promises, promises!

You said that before.

//because YOU refuse to be corrected.--kathr4454 on 12/5/16

Sorry Miss, I forgot my place.

I stand corrected!

HAPPY?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/5/16


I cant find the blog entitled "Do we need a bible degree"

not sure what happened to it.

Degrees are not necessary, but being called, being taught by God

Acts 4:13
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled, and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Acts 4 all

taught of the Father: Jn 6:45, 1 Thes 4:9. 1 Jn 2:27

consider also God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty, 1 Cor
1:27
---chria9396 on 12/5/16


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Those who claim others are lying usually do so to hide their own inadequacies. Aservant is as inadequate as the pagan trinity dogma he is pushing. ---David8318 on 12/4/16

I am pushing the Truth as Authored by God. HE SAID, these three are one. Lying ---David8318, like Satan, you are trying to gather the blind to follow your doctrine.

You have consistently accused the Author of lying to "hide your own inadequacies". God is Truth and all who oppose His Word are liars. Rom 3:4

Rev 21:8 . . . all liars, shall have their part in the lake . . .
---aservant on 12/5/16


Aservant where is that definition of person found?
Do your own research.

I share my own beliefs, I mimic no one
Scripture I provided verifies The Father is a person. Change your false beliefs, and stop spreading lies so you won't be mimicking Lying ---David8318

Before you attempt to criticize something I share, take your own advice.
I am not "attempting" to criticize you. I provided Scripture that proved you to be a liar, like Lying ---David8318 ---Josef on 12/4/16
---aservant on 12/5/16


Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
I
Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.


Nicole, there is such a great disconnect with you. Before making ignorant statements, please check out the FACTS FIRST. Of course There were witnesses to Jesus Resurrection.

And GUESS WHAT, I refuse to argue this with you, as you somehow will find a way to cleverly change the subject to a hang nail, because YOU refuse to be corrected.
---kathr4454 on 12/5/16


The Father is only a person in a philosophical sense.
The Holy Spirit isn't a person in any sense of the word.
The Word became a person . . .

Heb 1:3 Who being . . . the express image of his person

The Father, the Holy Spirit, and the The Word (Jesus) have always been real Persons = They are Spirit (eternal life force). They are one.



Therefore God in three persons has no basis.

Jg 20:8 And all the people arose as one man . . .

1Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit.


---Josef on 12/1/16
---aservant on 12/5/16


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Nicole:

"The Epistles claim to be letters that were sent to Churches and their Leaders." "THEY DO NOT STATES THEY ARE SCRIPTURES."

Ma'am, actually, are you paying attention?? My question to you again is where in the epistles are the authors not claiming their writings to not be "Scripture?"

So again to Cluny, strongaxe, and Nicole please give us all here the EXACT VERSES in both Obadiah, Esther, and the epistles where their authors claim to not be writing "Scripture??"
---john9346 on 12/5/16


Nicole states, "You are the ONE who SEEMS to claim Scripture has to state it is Scripture NOT ME."

The Church Fathers never stated,"Hello world we decided Matthew Mark, Luke, John, and Genesis are Scripture." "We are divine, infallible, and inspired men." "O Everyone give thy praise to us for creating "Scripture."
---john9346 on 12/5/16


AGAIN, the practicing Jews WHO LOVE their beloved Hanukkah POINTED OUT to me the books of Maccabees as the SOURCE of Hanukkah.

They are the ones who COMPLETED the EVENT of the Miracles of the LIGHTS from THEIR SCOLLS.

//RABBI'S have told ME it was most likely fabricated//

Gave the Rabbi's NAME?

NO RABBI TOLD YOU THAT!

A Protestant Pastor who THINKS he is an EXPERT on Jewish's Beliefs. A 'Protestant Rabbi' NOT a TRUE Jewish Rabbi!

//a war they do not glamorize.//

Kathr, ONLY you are FIXATED on the war part. The JEWS are FIXATED on the MIRACLES OF LIGHTS.

//TRUE miracles have witnesses Nicole. This one has NO EYE WITNESSES.---kathr4453

The RESSURRECTION didn't have any eye witnesses.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/5/16


//Nicole:"We are SAYING the SAME thing."

***No ma'am, we are not saying the same thing...

Sir, pay attention.

The Epistles claim to be letters that were sent to Churches and their Leaders.

THEY DO NOT STATES THEY ARE SCRIPTURES.

Understand?

//"You are the ONE who SEEMS to claim Scripture has to state it is Scripture NOT ME."
Not sure why the silence?? --john9346 on 12/4/16

We ALL AGREE is your ANSWER.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/16


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Nicole:

"We are SAYING the SAME thing."

No ma'am, we are not saying the same thing...

"Even Cluny tried to show you how that doesn't PROVE anything:"

False, Cluny's Objection has been answered and when I asked him as stated here he cant answer the question.

"You are the ONE who SEEMS to claim Scripture has to state it is Scripture NOT ME."

But ma'am, prior you asked me this question and so because I have answered your question/objection so many times I want you, Cluny, and Strongaxe to now answer mine.

Not sure why the silence??
---john9346 on 12/4/16


"With reference to which particular we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not Canonical, yet brought out for the edification of the Church, we bring forward testimony. Thus Eleazar in the battle smote and brought down an elephant, but fell under the very beast that he killed (1 Macc. 6.46). (Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church [Oxford: Parker, 1845], Gregory the Great, Morals on the Book of Job, Volume II, Parts III and IV, Book XIX. 34, p. 424)
---john9346 on 12/4/16


//"Please tell me where in those letters claims to be Scriptures?"//

We are SAYING the SAME thing.

The Bible AKA Scriptures includes the Epistles.

In fact you all QUOTE from the Epistles MORE than the Gospels.

//would you mind to state for us all where Romans-Jude are not stating that they are "Scripture." ---john9346

You forgot how this got started:

//2. The author of Maccabees never proclaim it to be "Scripture."---john9346 on 11/28/16

Even Cluny tried to show you how that doesn't PROVE anything:

//Neither did the authors of Obadiah or Esther.---Cluny on 11/28/16

You are the ONE who SEEMS to claim Scripture has to state it is Scripture NOT ME.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/16


Nicole. As you yourself tied works with feeding/clothing hungry/naked then logically James 2 comes to mind. But I now see you follow some strange idea of rejecting Rom to Jude as God's word. Like John9346 suggests, perhaps you have not read them.

BTW, Matt 25:31-46 supports my argument too, but I know you limit yourself to the literal understanding of a natural person, in spite of Matt 13:11, 1Cor 2:14, Isa 29.

I suggest you support FROM SCRIPTURE your reasons for the literal only interpretation.

BTW, Matt 25:14-30 the man with only one talent was cast out into darkness. By your standards that was literal too.
---Haz27 on 12/4/16


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Nicole:

"None of the Epistles (Romans to Jude) claims to be Scriptures."

False, have you not read them?

"People preserved the letters for us today."

Nicole, There is a difference between "Preservation." and The "Scriptures." themselves being "Divinely Authoritative, Inspired, infallible." Word of the Living God...

"Please tell me where in those letters claims to be Scriptures?"

Since I have addressed this objection over and over again would you mind to state for us all where Romans-Jude are not stating that they are "Scripture."
---john9346 on 12/4/16


Haz, actually, I don't like it when people run to the Epistles to either support or contradict Jesus' Words. I was thinking about Matthew 25:31-46

Jesus already said words are not enough. Works are needed

//SPIRITUALLY hungry/thirsty lacking Christ our SPIRITUAL food/drink (1Cor 10:3).

Jesus WASN'T speaking about symbolically BUT literally in Matthew 25:31-46

//BTW, even non-Christians feed/cloth the physically naked/hungry.//

Yes but they DIDN'T do it for the LOVE of Jesus. A needed component.

//Scripture is SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.---Haz27

No the Bible should be read:

The ALLEGORICAL sense: In regards to Jesus

The MORAL sense.

The ANAGOGICAL sense: pointing towards Heaven
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/16


What is scripture? And what qualifies as scripture?
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

And scripture say the foundation of our faith is based SOLELY upon the Apostles and Prophets. The Apostles had AUTHORITY given to them By Jesus AKA GOD...just as the Prophets did. Also those who WITNESSED the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. When Paul was struck down by the Risen Christ, Paul TESTIFIED TO JESUS RESURRECTION, stating he was the least of the Apostles, but had the AUTHORITY of an Apostle.
---kathr4453 on 12/4/16


Nicole. You misunderstand God's will and Matt 7. But you did confirm my argument when you jumped to James 2:14 about works of feeding hungry, clothing naked.

Our works are to believe on Jesus (John 6:29), which confirms John 6:40 the will of God is we believe on Jesus.

And if we believe on Jesus then we share that same salvation with the lost who are SPIRITUALLY hungry/thirsty lacking Christ our SPIRITUAL food/drink (1Cor 10:3).
The lost are SPIRITUALLY naked lacking the robes of righteousness, garment of salvation (Isa 61:10).

BTW, even non-Christians feed/cloth the physically naked/hungry.
If you read God's word as a natural man does then you will not understand (1Cor 2:14). Scripture is SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.
---Haz27 on 12/3/16


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John, thank you for answering me. I disagree, but at least you answered.

None of the Epistles (Romans to Jude) claims to be Scriptures.

They were letters and claim as such.

People preserved the letters for us today.

Please tell me where in those letters claims to be Scriptures?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/16


cluny said, "john9346, please quote the exact place where author/s of Maccabees do NOT claim to be writing scripture." "YOu have to be willing to do the same thing you ask me to do."

I actually did on the blog, "Jewish Hanukkah Feast."

This is what I am beginning to notice about you and strongaxe you gentlemen simply do not seem to pay attention...

Now are you going to answer my question.

I challenge you and strongaxe both to show to everyone "The EXACT VERSES in both Obadiah and Esther where their authors claim to not be writing scripture??
---john9346 on 12/2/16


//Not only have you avoided what defines God's will (John 6:40, 1Thess 4:3),//

Me?
You are the one who avoided what defines God's Will in Matthew 7.

Jesus doesn't speak in broken speeches. He tells you immediately what is His Will

//no definition from scriptures what good fruits are.//

I did
with matt 7:18-21 Jesus was CLEAR.

A bad tree produces rotton fruit. A good tree produces good fruit.

Fruits are Works: feeding the hungery, clothing, etc.

//The criminal on the cross went to paradise the day he died, totally cleansed/purified---Haz27

Yes, Baptism given to him by Jesus.

The same with you. If baptized and died 2 minutes later you would avoided Purgatory. No sin on your soul
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/16


Hey, Lying ---David8318, You are silent on Heb 1:8! You better find a way to lie about, twist, and pervert this Scripture. Because when you accept that Jesus is God, and He is, ALL of your analysis is bogus.

Heb 1:8 But God says about his Son, "You are God . . . (CEV)

To the Son, Thy throne, O God . . . (Darby) (EMTV) (GW) (ISV) (JUB) (KJV) (KJV-1611) (LITV) (MKJV) (RV) (Webster) (YLT)

About the Son . . . God said: "Your kingdom, O God . . . (GNB)

These versions disagree with you. Seems you can't devise enough twisting and persersion to overcome God (Father) saying Jesus (Son) is God.
---aservant on 12/2/16


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\\Since I have addressed your statement with strongaxe and Brendan, I would like for you to now please give us all the EXACT VERSES in both Obadiah and Esther where their authors claim to not be writing scripture??

---john9346 on 12/2/16\\

john9346, please quote the exact place where author/s of Maccabees do NOT claim to be writing scripture.

YOu have to be willing to do the same thing you ask me to do.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/2/16


Nicole. Not only have you avoided what defines God's will (John 6:40, 1Thess 4:3), but then you offer no definition from scriptures what good fruits are.

The criminal on the cross went to paradise the day he died, totally cleansed/purified, without any need to go to the RC purgatory.

That criminal obeyed God's will to believe on Jesus (John 6:40, 1Thess 4:3), and he had Christ the FIRST FRUITS (1Cor 15:20). Thus that criminal was known by his FRUITS.

But those in Matt 7 who say "Lord, Lord", but do not do the will of God (John 6:40), they do not have Christ the FIRST FRUITS. Such are mixing grace with works of the law, which we cannot do (Rom 11:6), as its unbelief.
---Haz27 on 12/2/16


cluny,

Since I have addressed your statement with strongaxe and Brendan, I would like for you to now please give us all the EXACT VERSES in both Obadiah and Esther where their authors claim to not be writing scripture??

---john9346 on 12/2/16


//What's God's will? John 6:40---Haz27

Why go to another Gospel to define God's will?

Jesus didn't imagine you had to go to another Gospel and Epistles to complete His statement

Just go back three verses.

Producing GOOD FRUITS.

You are not going to produce any good fruits by JUST BELIEVING IN JESUS.

Remember Jesus said you CAN'T come into Heaven by calling His Name.

Those people did what you claim is needed in John 6:40. They even had miracles in Jesus' names.

Jesus DISAGREES!

Matthew 7:18-20 A good tree cannot bring forth evil FRUIT, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth GOOD FRUIT.
Every tree that bringeth not forth GOOD FRUIT is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/2/16


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strongaxe:

"Obadiah 1:1 doesn't say Obadiah is scripture."

Where in Obadiah 1:1 does it not say it is "Scripture?"

"Esther 10:3 doesn't say Esther is scripture."

Where in esther doesn't say Esther is scripture."

I do believe from your response you see it, but you don't want to see it.
---john9346 on 12/1/16


john9346:

Harry Potter doesn't claim it's scripture either. Does that mean it is? The assumption "it's scripture unless it says it isn't" is absurd.

So you make claims and cant back them up really?

Obadiah 1:1 doesn't say Obadiah is scripture. ...
Obadiah 1:21 doesn't say Obadiah is scripture.
Esther 1:1 doesn't say Esther is scripture. ...
Esther 10:3 doesn't say Esther is scripture.

If you don't believe me, read them. I cited chapter and verse of 4 (blog limits prevent me citing or quoting all 188, but I'm sure you can read between ellipses).

---strongaxe

On 12/1/2016
---john9346 on 12/1/16


You deny the death of Jesus...
---David8318 on 11/24/16

As you have proved, you deny the deity of Jesus before men. Jesus told us in Matt. 10:33 that if you do this, He will deny you before His Father.

How do you expect to get to the Father without Jesus? You are still under heaven and Jesus is still the only way to get to the Father.

And only Jesus knows the Father. Not anyone in the OT and especially not any of YOUR teachers. Only Jesus knows the Father, or did you miss that?

Chop up the Bible anyway you want and it still says the same thing all over the place:

1 John 1:23 "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, the one who confesses the Son has the Father also"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/1/16


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