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Are Jews Christians

Why can't we allow Jewish people to accept ALL their own Scriptures and belief system? Do we accept their Passover just because it's in our Bible? (forgetting it's in their Scripture in the first place)

Since when do we have to RUBBER STAMP their celebrations in order to make it valid?

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 ---Nicole_Lacey on 12/7/16
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Nicole_Lacey:

I cited several web sites where ACTUAL REAL-LIFE non-Messianic JEWS call their own scriptures "the Bible". MUSLIMS never call the Qur'an "The Bible", but Jews DO call the Tanakh "The Bible".

Jewish people speak no more Hebrew than Catholics speak Latin. Jewish males learn enough Hebrew to be bar mitzvah, and no more. Only in Israel in the past century is Hebrew spoken. 2000 years ago, they wrote the GREEK Septuagint so Jews everywhere could have a translation in a language they ALL understood.

I know. It demonstrates importance. You just proved my point.

No, it proves MINE. Non-Christians can call THEIR important books Bibles too!
---StrongAxe on 12/18/16


I prove it when you asked me to google Jewish Bible. Christians who are using Jewish OT with their NT.

//Bible..It is a Greek book meaning "book".//

Jewish people speak Hebrew.

Are you suggesting they didn't KNOW what to call their Holy Scriptures until the Greeks came along?

//Rubber Bible.//

I know. It demonstrates importance.

You just proved my point.

//doesn't mean nobody else is allowed to do the same.//

They can, but they DON'T WANT to.

Can you understand that?

Call the Koran the Bible and see what happens?

//not just what theory you have about what they ought to call them.---StrongAxe

Simple theory! Listen to them and not yourself!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/17/16


Nicole_Lacey:

This isn't about what WE call somebody else's scripture. This isn't about what OTHER people call our scripture. This is about what other people call THEIR OWN scripture.

Bible IS generic. It is a Greek book meaning "book". When I was in college, one very useful resource we frequently used was the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, a.k.a the Rubber Bible.

Just because Christians call their scripture "THE book" doesn't mean nobody else is allowed to do the same.

Forget CN. Pay attention to what REAL people in the REAL world call their own scriptures - not just what theory you have about what they ought to call them.
---StrongAxe on 12/17/16


Can we respect each other?

We wouldn't like it if Muslims called our Bible the Koran.

'Scripture' is GENERIC for all HOLY BOOKS.

Bible ISN'T the generic name.

We older people might accidently say the word 'Kleenex' for all tissue.

But we ALL KNOW that 'tissue' is the generic name NOT Kleenex.

I accidently told a Ward Clerk (under 30) "Please Xerox this for me."
He had a puzzled look on his face. I apologized and said "I mean make a copy".

Xerox was the BIGGEST company that we used it's name as a generic form for copying anything.

Just admit most people on CN are doing the SAME for the word 'Bible'.

Can we be a little more SENSITIVE to other's belief system?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/17/16


Thank you Nicole and Kathyr good points and they are helpful.

The idea of Old and New Testament comes from Old and New Covenant. Testament is an older word that is a synonym for covenant.

My understanding of scripture is based on a method of interpretation referred to as Covenant Theology.

Many today follow dispensationalism from Darby in the 1900.

RCC does not have a set interpretation system. It seems to vary in history. But the Early Church Fathers and the Councils are the way most problems are resolved.

Merry Christmas.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/17/16




The Hundu Bible is called the Shruti. The Islam Bible is Called the Koran
The Jewish Bible is called the Torah, first 5 Books of the OT, the remainder of the Old Testiment and New Testament. When I refer to something IN the Bible, I will refer to it as the SCRIPTURES.

Bible simply means BOOKS. There is nothing sacred in the word BIBLE. What makes ours sacred is the word HOLY in front of the word BIBLE. The Catholic Church did not INVENT the word Bible.

A BIBLE is scriptures BOUND together. And YES the word BOOKS was used in the OT and NT. Rev. says those who will be judged out of the BOOKS.

Just as RABBI means teacher of the JEWISH scriptures. Both OT and NEW are Jewish scriptures. Written by Jews.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/16


//Google "Jewish bible"---StrongAxe

'The Messianic Prophecy Bible Project' at the button of the website it states **Why sign up? 3rd reason: It proves that Yeshua (JESUS) IS THE PROMISED MESSIAH.

**Hebrew KEY WORD STUDY BIBLE....(Jesus in red)

**The complete Jewish Bible- NT the complete Jewish B

But this quote states WHY Christian FORCE the word 'Bible' to Jewish Scriptures:

"Many CHRISTIANS refer to the Hebrew Bible as the Old Testament, the prophecy foretelling the advent of Jesus Christ as Gods appointed Messiah....The name Old Testament was DEVISED dby a CHRISTIAN, Melito of Sardis, about 170 ce to distinguish this part of the BIBLE from the New Testament",-- Hebrew Bible Britannica
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/16/16


Strongaxe, anyone can do anything they want. But is it what God wants...that was my point.....as I posted scripture about HOW God feels about it. Jesus broke down the wall between Jew and Gentile. Ephesians ...
---kathr4453 on 12/16/16


aservant: Some people obey the law out of joy. Others out of fear of losing salvation.

Mark_Eaton: Exactly! Obedience should be by choice, not force.---StrongAxe on 12/16/16


Understood this. Still don't understand why you directed this comment to me, since I said nothing about fear or consequences of disobedience.

Mark, There are over 200 Scriptures related to fearing God, and fearing the Lord. Doesn't seem that He is expecting many to obey out of love, and He would know.

But, He will cause the called, chosen, & elect to love Him - Dt 30:6.
---aservant on 12/16/16


kathr4453: Many churches keep their ethnic cultural traditions. Polish and Irish Catholic churches feel different, and each serves their own constituents. Why can't Jewish Christians do the same?


aservant: Some people obey the law out of joy. Others out of fear of losing salvation.


Mark_Eaton: Exactly! Obedience should be by choice, not force.


Nicole_Lacey:

For the THIRD TIME: Google "Jewish bible" and find MANY web sites of Jews who DO call their scriptures the Bible. Do NOT take my word ir your word for it. Take THEIR word for it.

I NEVER said I want Jews to accept the NT.

For the SECOND TIME, there aren't any practicing Jews who believe a protestant Rabbi. Why do you keep asking?
---StrongAxe on 12/16/16




In fact Rabbi Kirk isn't any different from Minister Louis Farrakhan.

He uses the word 'Minister' INSTEAD of Imam.

Farrakhan TRICKS young Black men into his Nation of Islam with the Bible

StrongAxe, it isn't nice to PRETEND you are Jesus' Minister to get followers into Muhammad's folds.

I knew a young Black man 20+ years ago who was a Baptist but started listening to Farrakhan.

He didn't believe he was Muslim because Farrakhan was USING the Bible and quoting Scriptures all the time.

But Farrakhan ALWAYS used the Koran to complete the Bible as if Christians end up Muslims NATURALLY.

Rabbi Kirk is doing the same thing to Jews to Christianity!

Jews should enter Christianity WITHOUT TRICKS.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/16/16


Then we have Messianic Jewish Churches who do not want Gentiles in their Churches. Then you have Messianic Jewish Churches who believe like Travis in the Two House doctrine, where he believes he is a Jew. Then we have Gentiles who believe in some doctrine that, those in Switzerland are a lost tribe, and those in Wales are another lost tribe and on and on. Even with Messianic Jewish churches are again SO MANY DIFFERENT SECTS ITS NOT FUNNY.

When Gentile Churches do not want Jews ( Christian Jews ) in their congregation, and Jewish Christians do not want Gentiles in their congregation, as some Messianic Churches do not.....THE WALL IS STILL UP....and these are totally disobedient to the Known will of God.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/16


Messianic Jews in particular..do it because they WANT to be obedient to God.
---StrongAxe on 12/15/16

Actually, Messianic Jews are in the middle of a conflict when it comes to the Law.

They are pressured by observant Jews (within and without their congregations) to keep kosher and keep the feasts.

And they are pressured by Christians to not keep the Law.

There are many different opinions within Messianic Jews, but the majority side with Christians and leave observance up to the individuals.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/16/16


StrongAxe, practicing Jews DO NOT call their Holy Scriptures the Bible.

That's wishful thinking of some Christians.

As I said, Protestants Do not want anyone to confuse the Catholic Bible with the Protestant Bible BECAUSE of 7 books in the OT!

YET you want JEWS to ACCEPT 27 books from OUR HOLY Scriptures the BIBLE with those books all supporting Jesus they reject????

It isn't hard to understand.

If you only have macaroni you CAN'T call it Mac and Cheese until you add cheese to the macaroni.

No cheese NO Mac and Cheese.

Still waiting for ONE practicing Jew who BELIEVES A Protestant Rabbi is a VALID Jewish Teacher?

One?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/15/16


They do it because they WANT to be obedient to God.
Obedience out of sheer terror of the consequences of disobedience is not a good basis for a relationship.---StrongAxe on 12/15/16.


I said that God does not retrieve gifts (salvation) in responding to Mark_Eaton's comment about MJs fearing to lose Heaven if they are not called about a Latin name.

I am not sure why you responded to me regarding MJs wanting to obey God, and about obedience out of terror. I said nothing about fear or consequences of disobedience. Please explain.
---aservant on 12/15/16


Messianic Christian Jews are no different than any denomination who does not believe they become a New Creature in Christ, neither Jew of Gentile. It was most likely Messianic Christian Jews with Peter in Galatia that were messing with the Church Paul started where Paul did not turn these Gentile Christians into OT Observants and law keepers, whether out of Love or fear. Actually it IS contradictory to GRACE plus nothing.

Not all Born Again Jews are Messianic Jews. And believe it or not, many Messianic Jewish Churches consist of over 50% Gentiles who are led to believe they are now Jews or in submission to the Jews, which Paul absolutely said NO WAY JOSE!

I'm with Paul on this one.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/16


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aservant:

Jews in general (and Messianic Jews in particular) do not obey the law of Moses because they think they have to in order to get salvation. They do it because they WANT to be obedient to God.

If (say) your wife asks you go to the store for some milk, do you get it because you want to make her happy, or because you fear that if you don't, she will throw you out of the house? If it's the latter, I would feel sorry for you and your marriage. Obedience out of sheer terror of the consequences of disobedience is not a good basis for a relationship.
---StrongAxe on 12/15/16


Messianic Jews fully accept Jesus like Christians do, as Savior, Son of God, Lord of All, soon coming King

. . . loose their place in heaven if not called a Latin word? ---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/16


If this were true, they would know that once gifted, God never retrieves salvation, and they would not believe they could lose heaven over a Latin word, nor would they rely on a covenant superceded by a better covenant. Who wants inferior promises?

Heb 8:6 now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER COVENANT, which was established upon BETTER PROMISES.
---aservant on 12/15/16


//sweet pea, no, I will not do your homework for you.//

I am NOT looking up something you MADE UP.

Asking for chapter and verse is snarky, and your response isn't?

Kathr, I will give you, me and everyone on CN an EARLY CHRISTMAS GIFT.

I will fulfill your promise and END our communication.

I have a feeling you will miss me. ,D

//I would appreciate it if you watched your TONE with me from now on.---kathr4453

SURE

How does the SOUND OF SILENCE SOUND TO YOU?

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR KATHR,

That means a lot since we are still in the Advent Season. But, I wanted to make sure you get my Christmas greeting this year.

If you don't know what is 'Advent' just ask Cluny.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/15/16


Nicole, sweet pea, no, I will not do your homework for you. YOU have a Bible, and if you don't have a STRONGS you really should get one. It gives the original Greek and Hebrew word of every word in the Bible. It even will show you where BIBLE is in the BIBLE, including the OT.

So please put away your sword, and matches and RACK and actually listen to what others have to share so we can learn from one another.

If you don't have a STRONGS and don't even know what it is, you CAN'T know it all Nicole, therefore you shouldn't throw around your snarky remarks like you do know it all, and the rest of us are stupid.

And I would appreciate it if you watched your TONE with me from now on.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/16


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//G40 in the STRONGS is the Greek word for SAINT.//

I will ask for the 3rd time.

Chapter and Verse means Bible Sources

Example 1st Peter 2:10 or John 15:2.

Got it?

G40 might applied to Genesis, but we don't know if you mean chapter 40 or verse 40.

The word 'saint' isn't in Genesis.

You CLAIM Peter calls people Saint. BACK UP YOUR CLAIM!

You have 2 Epistles, 4 Gospels and Acts to choose from of this 'so call' statement of Peter.

PROVE your statement. Use the Bible. THAT's IT!

//Used by Paul, Peter, John just to name a few.---kathr4453 on 12/15/16

Just CITE Scriptures. Now you can cite from all 27 books of the Bible since you added more names.

---Nicole_Lacey on 12/15/16


NIcole asks, "What is G40 in the
STRONGS?"

Nicole, I am so embarrassed for you. Before you go off on a tangent calling names and what ever it is you do, don't first display your ignorance?

G40 in the STRONGS is the Greek word for SAINT. Used by Paul, Peter, John just to name a few. That WE are the Saints. The BOC are the Saints. Peter never taught a Saint was someone others needed to vote on and thenAdd Saint to their first name and name a holiday after, or festival after, or even church after.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/16


Christ is the ONLY WAY they can return as Spiritual (internal) Jews (abandoning the Jewish notion of biological salvation).
---aservant on 12/14/16

Bless your heart. (For non-Southerners, look up what this means).

Who is Christ, but Yeshua Ha-Mashiach? I doubt that Yeshua ever answered to the name Jesus anytime while here on Earth.

Messianic Jews fully accept Jesus in the same way we Christians do, as Savior, Son of God, Lord of All, soon coming King, etc.

But if they decide to continue to wear their tallit prayer shawl and yarmulke, what is that to you?

You have no knowledge of Messianic Jews. Your Scriptural verses continue to describe non-believing Jews.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/16


---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16
Since salvation is a gift - Eph 2:8-9, God does not retrieve gifts once given - Rom 11:29. Works do not save. Works do not damn. You CANNOT LOSE the GIFT of Salvation. God makes no mistakes.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world . . .
---aservant on 12/15/16


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Nicole_lacey:

No, the OT+NT is the CHRISTIAN Bible. The OT is the JEWISH Bible. There are also other kinds of bible (e.g. the Satanic Bible) that don't include either.

Yes, Jews DO call their Scripture the Bible. Google "Jewish Bible" and you will find them for sale from Jewish publishers, and Jewish bible study web sites.

I have news for you. Jews use the internet too. Read THEIR OWN web sites!

FIND a Practicing Jew who REJECTS Jesus, but ACCEPTS a Christian Rabbi as their Valid Jewish Teacher?

There aren't any, but that is TOTALLY irrelevant to whether or not Jews call their scriptures the Bible.
---StrongAxe on 12/15/16


This is the definition of "contempt prior to investigation". Or to use another word, prejudice.
Not so. Like the Pharisees, the servants were not willing to make the changes their Master wanted made. They must shift AWAY from Judaism and Jewish Tradition to RELIANCE ONLY UPON JESUS' DEATH on the cross to be saved, no exceptions. The servants don't get to choose WHO or HOW they are saved and adopted.

God wants His Son glorified, not the salvation format of man glorified. He is very possessive of His Glory and His praise - Is 42:8, 43:7. Servants should be prejudiced towards God's wants.


---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/16
---aservant on 12/15/16


//look up G40....SAINT IN GREEK, that Peter 1 & 2 uses more times//

WHAT IS G40?

Please follow INSTRUCTIONS?

I asked for chapter and verse you CLAIM PETER says the word 'Saint'?

//I know you as a Catholic seem to have placed SAINT in some special category not in scripture---kathr4453

THANK YOU! You claimed it was in the Bible. NOW PROVE IT!

You are a Hypocrite!

You get mad if someone calls you are Bible the Catholic Bible. You deny it because of the 7 books in the OT your Bible DOESN'T HAVE.

Butttttttt, you want to ADD 27 books to the Jewish Scriptures???

1st we take their HOLY Scriptures, but that ISN'T ENOUGH for Protestants.

You all FORCE the NT to their SCRIPTURES!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/15/16


If Judaism and Jewish tradition saved folks, there would have been no need for Jesus.
---aservant on 12/14/16

Wow.

This is the definition of "contempt prior to investigation". Or to use another word, prejudice.

We should be welcoming our Jewish brothers and sisters in Christ but you seem determined to separate the BOC into factions.

Of course, Messianic Jews still hold onto tradition. I applaud them for that.

As far as elements of Judaism, Christianity is so steeped in it Judaic roots, that we hardly see it. Look at any teachings on the Tabernacle, High Priest breastplate, blood sacrifice, and feasts.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/16


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Why . . . Believers in Jesus who love and serve Yeshua Ha-Mashiach will loose their place in heaven if they are not called a Latin word?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16


Wikipedia
Messianic Judaism is a syncretic movement that combines
--Christianitymost importantly, the Christian belief that Jesus is the Messiah-with elements of
--Judaism and
--Jewish tradition

Jesus in the ONLY way to be saved! Mt 1:21, Jn 6:44, 65, 10:9, 2 Joh 1:9 If Judaism and Jewish tradition saved folks, there would have been no need for Jesus.
---aservant on 12/14/16


Matthew Henry Commentary
11:11-21 . . . unbelieving Jews motivated . . . the Gentiles being reconciled to God . . . the future receiving of the Jews into the church . . . Abraham was as the root of the church . . . as a nation, they rejected the Messiah, after that, their relation to Abraham and to God was . . . cut off. The Gentiles were grafted into this tree . . . of Abraham's faith, holiness and blessedness.

Rom 11:1-11 God chose Gentiles to make jealous, Jews who rejected Christ. Like Gentiles, Christ is the ONLY WAY they can return as Spiritual (internal) Jews (abandoning the Jewish notion of biological salvation).
---aservant on 12/14/16


StrongAxe, the OT + NT is the BIBLE!

Jews DON'T CALL their Scripture the 'Bible'.

Even they know that the Bible means BOTH the OT and NT.

//Jesus and the disciples frequently mention and quote scriptures.//

BINGO!

Their OWN Scriptures we TOOK and added the NT renaming it the BIBLE.

//The Jewish ones - because the New Testament hadn't been written yet!//

SO WHAT? They STILL DON'T use the NT!

//Google "Jewish Bible" to see how wrong you are.---StrongAxe

REALLY? You Trust the Internet OVER the words of Practicing Jews? WOW

FIND a Practicing Jew who REJECTS Jesus, but ACCEPTS a Christian Rabbi as their Valid Jewish Teacher?

ONE? Please cite your answer.
---Nicole_lacey on 12/14/16


Nicole, if perhaps you have a STRONGS look up G40....SAINT IN GREEK, that Peter 1 & 2 uses more times in his letters than any single letter aka Epistle in the NT.

I know you as a Catholic seem to have placed SAINT in some special category not in scripture, however Peter who you claim as your first Pope did not.

SO! Before you huff and puff with your scoffing condescending replies and commentary on other people's posts , PLEASE STOP LOOKING THE FOOL. It's embarrassing.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/16


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---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16

Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one (Jn 17:11, 21-22) Does TRUTH lie? Jn 1:14, 17, 14:6

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Those Jews need to see all these Scriptures, or God might account their damnation to you. Eze 3:18, 20
---aservant on 12/14/16


Then they forfeit Heaven...they mimic Pharisees
---aservant on 12/13/16

Wow. Do you even know any Messianic Jews or have attended a Messianic Jewish worship service?

Do you even know that Jesus name in Hebrew is Yeshua? And the word Christ is a Latin translation of Mashiach or Messiah? So that our Latin name Jesus Christ is in Hebrew, Yeshua Ha-Mashiach?

So, then the word "Christians" used in Acts 11 is another Latin word.

Why do you think Believers in Jesus who love and serve Yeshua Ha-Mashiach will loose their place in heaven if they are not called a Latin word?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/14/16


//The word Protestant is not even in the Bible.//

Because there WASN'T ANY Protestants UNTIL the 16th Century.

Read a Secular History book once and around instead your doctorate up Protestant history books.

//And we see Peter who was not Catholic or Protestant refers to ALL believers as SAINTS.---kathr4453

I believe you miss understood that Passage. Give chapter and verse.

We are only Saints after we die, because you can still reject God 1 second before death.

//they are not WAITING then they are CALLED CHRISTIANS---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/16

Most of the Messianic Jews I know do not want to be called Christians.--Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16

I agree. I was answering StrongAxe statement.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/14/16


Nicole's IGNORANCE STRIKES AGAIN. Will that well EVER run dry. Oh let's hope so.

Thus, the Catholic Church has bnothing to do with the used of the term biblia to designate the Holy Scriptures. It was not them who named the Holy Scriptures biblia. The Jewish Greeks were the first to used the word biblia to designate the books of the Holy Scriptures as early as third century BC, and then the apostles and the first century Christians in the first century AD.

Daniel 9:2 and II Timothy 4:13 are among the many verses that prove that the word Bible (biblia in Greek) is in the Bible.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/16


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The problem Nicole, is that you get certain ideas in your head, that if anyone says anything that you have never heard or read or researched before, you call what they say a lie....and the worse part is, you go on and on and on and on with one ignorant thing after another defending your ignorance. It is so painful sometimes to watch here.

But that is the difference between being STUPID and being IGNORANT. You can't fix stupid, BUT you CAN fix ignorance. But YOU chose to remain ignorant, and argue your ignorance even when shown you are wrong making you even MORE ignorant. Is that intentional, because you want to provoke people? Are you for real or is this some game to you? That IS probably WHY they call you names in Alabama too.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/16


Jn 4:22 . . . salvation is of the Jews.
Jesus is a Jew.

Jn 5:18 . . . he had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Like today, the so-called "followers" of God don't believe what He says.

Jn 6:41 . . . I am the bread which came down from heaven.
How can RCC be real Christians? Jesus IS THE BREAD. RCC thinks the bread is Jesus. Would the Spirit of God inside them be so blind?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16
---aservant on 12/14/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Again, JEWS DON'T HAVE BIBLES! THEY ARE JEWISH!

Yes, they do. They just contain only the Old Testament, and do not contain the New Testament (or Apocrypha either).

Jesus and the disciples frequently mention and quote scriptures. Which scriptures do you think they were talking about? The Jewish ones - because the New Testament hadn't been written yet!

We call our Scriptures 'Bibles' NOT THEM.

Google "Jewish Bible" to see how wrong you are. Most of the sites mentioned are Jewish ones. Go by what the Jews themselves say they believe, not what you think the Catholic Church says the Jews believe.
---StrongAxe on 12/14/16


//like Kathr's Protestant Rabbi//

You were the one who brought up your friend as a credible SOURCE not me.

You are MAD because I exposed that he is a Christian calling himself a Rabbi as well.

//Nicole is a anti-Semitic RACIST beyond words.//

I am telling you NOT TO TRICK JEWS and I am the 'anti-Semite'???

//Jewish people who KNOW their Bible are a real THREAT to Catholics,---kathr4453 on 12/14/16

Again, JEWS DON'T HAVE BIBLES! THEY ARE JEWISH!

We call our Scriptures 'Bibles' NOT THEM.

At least this Catholic respects Jewish Scripture and DOESN'T CHANGE IT'S NAME!

It's SIMPLE! Just stop LYING to Jews.

CAN YOU DO THAT?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/14/16


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Mark said, "We need to remember Messianic Jews have been Jewish their whole life, and will continue to be Jewish until they die. They do not want to lose that identity and heritage."

In Christ its Christ first enicity second.

Messianic Jews are actually still under the law God doesn't favor 1 ethnicity over another ethnicity now that we are under the New Covenant.
---john9346 on 12/14/16


No Nicole, I am not a Protestant, but I guess I am Only in your small ignorant world.

When Paul was saved, he did not BECOME A PROTESTANT. None of the believers before the RCC took over and tried to force the RCC down everyone's throat were EVER called Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox.

Believers TODAY are called CHRISTIANS just like they were in Pauls day. The were first called Disciples (of Christ) and then they were called CHRISTIAN in Antioch.

The word Protestant is not even in the Bible. WHY, because the word I ROMAN CATHOLIC or ORTHODOX CATHOLIC is not in the Bible.

And we see Peter who was not Catholic or Protestant refers to ALL believers as SAINTS.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/16


Looking back at history, seeing years upon years the murders that took place between Protestants and Catholics, where innocent CHRISTIANS and Jews, even Jewish Christians were MURDERED, because they refused to bow down to the RCC. What a horrible thing the RCC started, with Constantine who turned Christianity VIOLENT.
But it is my understanding Protestant churches , those who broke away from the RCC, who were originally RCC, like Lutherens, Calvinists, etc called themselves Protestants. However, a Jew who was Born Again would have no reason to start a NEW denomination. They just would continue on from the beginning of Christianity regardless of those crazy Gentiles who made a mess of it all, BECAUSE SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/16


WHY Nicole is so concerned with a Jewish man calling himself a Rabbi teaching scripture is really about NIcole being a narrow minded, bigoted RACIST, who believes some GENTILE POPE NEEDS TO APPROVE IT FIRST. THAT is what is really behind Nicole's hate mongering here towards Christian Jews. Her filthy mouth here proves that. Her SNIDE remarks...like Kathr's Protestant Rabbi .......and Mark_Eaton, maybe Kathr can tell you more of her Jewish sects from her Protestant Jewish Rabbi........

See, Nicole is a anti-Semitic RACIST beyond words. And an ignorant one at that. Jewish people who KNOW their Bible are a real THREAT to Catholics, because WE KNOW we don't have to bow down to a Catholic to get their permission for anything we believe.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/16


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//A Jew who comes to believe Jesus is the true Messiah//

Does he HAS TO BELEIVE in Jesus in Kathr's World.?

//I am not a Protestant.//

Unless you are Orthodox or a Catholic you are a PROTESTANT!

//teacher= rabbi is not some high and lofty title.//

Who cares, IT STILL BELONGS TO THE JEWS!

//And a Christian Jew has just as much right to consider himself a Rabbi aka Teacher//

Imam means teacher as well!.

Call your Pastor 'Imam' and see what he will say to you.

//Jesus would be disqualified as a Rabbi under YOUR definition.//

HOW? HE WAS A PRACTICING JEW!

//Does one give up being Jewish because they are now a Christian?--kathr4453

YOU CAN'T GIVE UP BEING A JEW!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/16


Messianic Jews do not want to be called Christians. Then they forfeit Heaven.

they are believers in Yeshua as Messiah They mimic Pharisees.

persecuted by "christians and their God Jesus Christ". They persecuted/killed Jesus. Is the Father unfair to retribute?

refer to other Believers in Christ as "Members of the Body of Christ"?Believing is not enough to be His Body. See Mt 7:21-23: Jas 2:19.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16
---aservant on 12/13/16


In Florida we have a number of predominantly Jewish churches. On Sabbath they hold the ceremonies in the Jewish tradition. But they are Seventh day Adventist Christians.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/13/16


If they are not WAITING then they are CALLED CHRISTIANS
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/16

Most of the Messianic Jews I know do not want to be called Christians.

When asked why, they reply that they are Jewish, that they are believers in Yeshua as Messiah, but they have no connection with Jesus or Christianity. In fact, many were persecuted in their childhood by "christians and their God Jesus Christ".

We need to remember Messianic Jews have been Jewish their whole life, and will continue to be Jewish until they die. They do not want to lose that identity and heritage.

Perhaps we should call refer to other Believers in Christ as "Members of the Body of Christ"?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16


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Nicole, Protestant means to protest Catholicism. A Jew who comes to believe Jesus is the true Messiah does not have to protest the RCC first or ever to know what he/she believes. I am not a Protestant. That is simply IGNORANCE on your part of understanding.

teacher= rabbi is not some high and lofty title. It does not mean Christ, or Messiah. And a Christian Jew has just as much right to consider himself a Rabbi aka Teacher, as an Orthodox Jew who is a teacher. One teaches OT only, and the other OT with the NEW.

Jesus would be disqualified as a Rabbi under YOUR definition.

Does one give up being Jewish because they are now a Christian? Careful how you answer that.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/16


//when we think of Biblical Judaism, it is Orthodox Judaism we are thinking about.--Mark_Eaton 12/12/16

AMEN TO THAT!

Kathr believes her RABBI Protestant Pastor can SPEAK about the Biblical Judaism BETTER than a REAL RABBI!

BTW, allow Kathr to explain the Jewish Sects to you.
After all she learned all about the Jewish Faith from her Protestant Rabbi Pastor

//There are several branches of Judaism. Orthodox Jews don't recognize Conservative rabbis, etc. Most don't recognize Messianic Jewish rabbis either.--StrongAxe 12/12/16

Do you know what they do have in COMMON?

That Jesus Christ ISN'T the Messiah!

They all are still waiting.

If they are not WAITING then they are CALLED CHRISTIANS
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/16


Mark_Eaton, yep, and also add to the list the Zealots. So then there were 4 main sects. The Zealots were also very preoccupied with end times, thinking their actions of rebellion would actually bring on the end times prophecy, and most likely the main cause of why the Temple was destroyed in 70ad.

Then after the Temple was destroyed, many MORE different sects came into being. And then when so many came to America wanting to find a way to assimilate into America and also keep their core beliefs, we have even more sects, along with those who have kept the old world ways, and some FABULOUS Restaurants :)...
---kathr4453 on 12/13/16


//A Rabbis Jew who THEN believes in Jesus WHO CONTINUES AS A TEACHER of the Bible//

? Bible that STATES JESUS IS THE MESSIAH?

If that's the SCRIPTURE the converted Rabbi is NOW USING he isn't a PRACTICING JEW anymore!

He is a Christian NOW!

There isn't a SPECIAL category for Jewish Christians.

//practicing DOES NOT BECOME A PROTESTANT,//

??????

If they man isn't a Catholic or Orthodox he is a Practicing PROTESTANT!

If your intention is to convert them, SAY SO!

//Well Jesus was also a Christian ( tongue in cheek ) who was called RABBI.---kathr4453

????

Jesus is the FULFILLMENT of the Jewish Religion!

Jesus is GOD He HAS followers He ISN'T a follower of Himself!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/16


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Rabbi Schneider's ministry message states :

The scriptures with power and clarity that transforms the lives of His people into His own image, God's own image...not Rabbi Schneider's image.
By communicating, with simplicity and authenticity, the prophetic synergies between the Old and New Testaments, building ones faith.
By teaching the Biblical Jewish roots of Christianity to empower and enlighten the believers walk.
By preaching with revelation that ignites a greater comprehension of Gods character.
By calling Gods people into true repentance so that they may walk in greater union with Him and bear much fruit!
Mobilizing the Church


WOW! What an AWESOME Ministry Rabbi Schneider has. May God Bless him.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/16


Even then Jews argued among themselves...being different sects of Judaesm.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/16

Funny. We both forgot the Essenes to whom we owe a debt of gratitude to for preserving their scrolls so well.

Besides the afterlife, the great division between Pharisee and Sadducees was the Oral Law. Sadducees believed in only the Written Law and found no afterlife mentioned within the Torah.

Both the Messiah and afterlife beliefs came thru the Pharisees.

We know little of the Sadducees because none of their writings survived.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/16


//My point isn't wasn't that he was JESUS, but that he was a RABBI.//

My point is that there is ONLY ONE RABBI JESUS and Rabbi Kirk ISN'T him!

//He never called HIMSELF "The Jewish Jesus". He has a web site called "Discovering the Jewish Jesus". Before hurling accusations based on a (perhaps inaccurate) quote, if there's a doubt, google it to see what's REALLY going on.--StrongAxe on 12/13/16

NO you NEED to WATCH HIS SHOW BEFORE you try to correct someone.

They kept calling him the 'Jewish Jesus' over and over - AUDIO!
I kept reversing the show because I couldn't believe my EARS!

The Website CONFIRMED my hearing! Which came at the END of the Show

WATCH THE SHOW THEN CORRECT ME!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Who said that? Not me

Right, you didn't. Why don't you respect what REAL JEWS actually say Rabbi means - i.e. teacher.

Because He is Jesus!

My point isn't wasn't that he was JESUS, but that he was a RABBI.

Rabbi Kirk shouldn't call himself the 'Jewish Jesus'

He never called HIMSELF "The Jewish Jesus". He has a web site called "Discovering the Jewish Jesus". Before hurling accusations based on a (perhaps inaccurate) quote, if there's a doubt, google it to see what's REALLY going on.

The ONLY person who thinks he's trying to trick anyone is you - based on a misunderstanding of something improperly quoted.
---StrongAxe on 12/13/16


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Jesus said call no one Father, but your a Father in heaven and Nicole spits in Gods face and does it anyway, is called BLASPHEMOUS.

A Rabbis Jew who THEN believes in Jesus WHO CONTINUES AS A TEACHER of the Bible DOES NOT BECOME A PROTESTANT, nor is their any LAW he must stop using the title of Rabbi.

But a heathen gentile, who then believes in Jesus somehow becomes a PRIEST imitating the Jews religion and office and Title, who say THAT title is reserved and restricted to a select few in the RCC.....Hum....when the BIBLE says ALL CHRISTIANS ARE KINGS AND PRIESTS JNTO GOD that Nicole argues against......hum......is going to pass judgement here.

Well Jesus was also a Christian ( tongue in cheek ) who was called RABBI.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/16


//Also, when we think of Biblical Judaism, it is Orthodox Judaism we are thinking about.---Mark_Eaton

AMEN! EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING!

//A Rabbi is a teacher. The title isn't analagous to "Priest",//

Who said that? Not me

Rabbi = Jews
Priests = Orthodox/Catholics (Jews in family line)
Imam = Muslims
Pastor, Minister or Rev = Protestants

//Some of Jesus's followers themselves called Jesus Rabbi.//

Because He is Jesus!

Rabbi Kirk shouldn't call himself the 'Jewish Jesus'

//several branches of Judaism. Orthodox Jews don't recognize Conservative rabbis, etc.---StrongAxe

The COMMON TREAD they are NOT pretending to be a Bishop or Imams to trick others.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/12/16


Mark_Eaton, no sideway jab. However even in Jesus time there were the Sadducees, and the Pharisees for starters. The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection. Go figure. Even Job, who was not even a Jew believed in the resurrection. That's a pretty important issue to be so totally divided on.

Even then Jews argued among themselves...being different sects of Judaesm.

I don't really care about how many MORE Jewish sects came into existance after that. More than I care to lose any sleep over.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/16


StrongAxe, I was giving you examples. Orthodox Priests and Catholic Priests who are Jews trying to TRICK practicing Jewish people.

//to decide what is and isn't blasphemous to Jews.//

Jews DON'T care about Jesus.

He calls himself the 'Jewish Jesus'! Kirk isn't Jesus.

He might be Jewish, but still a PRACTICING PROTESTANT PASTOR!

Kathr wanted me to think she spoke to a REAL JEWISH RABBI!

Since when do Protestant Pastors use the title 'Rabbi' before?

Everyone knows the word 'Rabbi' belongs Jews as 'Imam' belongs to Mulisms.

If Kirk called himself 'Imam' Kirk but ISN'T a practicing Muslim, he is only trying to TRICK practicing Muslims!

BTW, Blasphemy is a crime against God not man.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/12/16


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....anymore than ORTHODOXY Russian or Greek define ALL of Christianity.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/16

Huh? Is this a sideways jab?

As you know, there were no other forms of Judaism before the 18th century.

If you want to talk to someone about the OT, do you want someone who has traditions in it that date back before Jesus or that date from the 18th Century?

Also, when we think of Biblical Judaism, it is Orthodox Judaism we are thinking about.

Reformed Judaism does not resemble Biblical Judaism and is largely cultural with many atheists in it. Conservative Judaism is mostly cultural with their beliefs siding with Reformed theology.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/12/16


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Rabbis who converted to the Catholic faith and became a Priest DO NOT call themselves Rabbi Priest!

As a Catholic, you get to be upset about things that are blasphemous to Catholics, but you don't have standing to decide what is and isn't blasphemous to Jews.

A Rabbi is a teacher. The title isn't analagous to "Priest", as it doesn't convey any particular divine authority (like OT priests did). Some of Jesus's followers themselves called Jesus Rabbi.

There are several branches of Judaism. Orthodox Jews don't recognize Conservative rabbis, etc. Most don't recognize Messianic Jewish rabbis either.
---StrongAxe on 12/12/16


Nicole_Lacey wrote: On the INSP channel I saw a Rabbi Kirt Schneider calling himself:
'The Jewish Jesus' Messianic Rabbi
Blasphemous!


Nicole has trouble reading and understanding English.. Does everyone see the (') after Jesus above. That (') is not saying Rabbi Kirt Schneider says HE is Jesus. Just ANOTHER Rosanna Rosanna Dana moment Nicole is having here. Are Jews for Jesus also BLASPHEMOUS? And do you suppose there might be some JEWS, real life JEWS for Jesus who also go by Rabbi, AKA TEACHER. Or is Nicole saying a JEW who believes in Jesus cannot be a TEACHER?

And Mark_Eaton, ORTHODOXY Jews do not define ALL the different sects of Judaism....anymore than ORTHODOXY Russian or Greek define ALL of Christianity.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/16


//How is it blasphemous?---StrongAxe

He is trying to TRICK Jews.

If someone calls himself a Catholic Priest, he knows everyone thinks he is a VALID PRIEST!

Orthodox Priests don't go around saying they are Catholic as a Catholic Priest calls himself an Orthodox Priest.

Rabbis who converted to the Catholic faith and became a Priest DO NOT call themselves Rabbi Priest!

Don't you think a PRACTICING JEW would ASSUME he is a REAL RABBI?

Or get UPSET to find out he is a PROTESTANT PASTOR!

But he DARES to call himself 'The Jewish Jesus'?????????

Jesus Christ was JEWISH.

ONLY ONE JEWISH JESUS (Messianic Rabbi) and that's JESUS CHRIST NOT Rabbi Kirt Schneider!

THAT'S BLASPHEMOUS!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/12/16


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Great catch Strongaxe. Many Christian Jews call themselves Messianic Jews, and interestingly enoutpgh, many Gentiles call themselves Messianic Jews. And RABBI simply means TEACHER. It does not mean POPE in English or Latin, if that is what Nicole means. How else could it possibly be BLASPHEMOUS.

These words With Nicole's definitions she throws around are hilarious.

Now if I wanted to make a big stink here, I would be calling Nicole a RACIST ACCORDING TO HER definitionS of RACIST.
---kath4453 on 12/12/16


How is it blasphemous? I am curious what your objection is. Are Jewish people not allowed to accept Jesus?
---StrongAxe on 12/12/16

I agree.

I do not know much about Kirt Schneider but I have read the teachings of many Messianic Rabbis and consider many of them very insightful.

I once read an article on Jesus being born on Sukkot and the author theorized that Jesus may actually been born in a Sukkah. The theory being that 16th century Europeans would not understand what a feeding tray in a Sukkah was so the KJV translators used a feeding tray in a outdoor building and translated it to the word manger instead.

And of course, Jesus is Jewish.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/12/16


Not a particularly effective way to persuade someone of anything.
---StrongAxe on 12/11/16

Sorry to jump in on this conversation, but it reminds me of something.

Dr. Michael Brown talks about his experiences trying to converse with Orthodox Rabbis when he was a new Christian. The Rabbis would tell him that he was completely wrong on his understanding of OT Scripture due to his faulty KJV translation. They would take him directly to the OT scrolls and show him where the errors were.

I also know first hand that to converse with Orthodox Jews about anything religious, use their translation of the Tanakh.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/12/16


I think Nicole asked this question solely for the purpose of continuing an argument that in her own mind has so convoluted the issues and facts surrounding, as her last reply here is a dead GIVE A WAY.

Nicole anyone can believe anything they want, no matter what. You believe things I do not, and just because someone says they are Christian or Jewish Rabbi Christian, or Jewish Rabbi Messianic this or that, STILL proves nothing.

Every denomination believes something different from another denomination , all calling themselves Christian...and there are SO MANY different sects of Jewish beliefs as well.

You can believe in your fables and traditions...just like anyone else.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/16


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: On the INSP channel I saw a Rabbi Kirt Schneider calling himself:
'The Jewish Jesus' Messianic Rabbi
Blasphemous!


How is it blasphemous? I am curious what your objection is. Are Jewish people not allowed to accept Jesus?
---StrongAxe on 12/12/16


Here is a good question for you Nicole, kind of a back at you question the SDA's would ask YOUR denomination. Why did YOU mess with the Jewish scriptures and change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Are you being a hypocrite deciding what is and isn't relevant? and on what authority do you have in changing the Jewish scriptures to read as something else?

Why did the RCC RUBBER STAMP OVER the Word of God? I would say the SABBATH is a far more worthy DAY than the Day set aside for Hanakkah.

So let's change this question to WHY did the RCC rewrite scripture? And on WHO's AUTHORITY.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/16


As I said to Kathr, I knew her friend feeding her all that Jewish information was actually a Rabbi Protestant Pastor.

On the INSP channel I saw a Rabbi Kirt Schneider calling himself:
'The Jewish Jesus' Messianic Rabbi

Blasphemous!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/11/16


Cluny:

There are many Christians who will go up to a Jew (and/or anyone else) and say "Your religion is all wrong. If you don't accept Jesus as your personal savior, you're going to burn in hell". Their response will likely be, "I have my own religious beliefs, and you are rude and disrespectful, so I am going to ignore you. Get lost." Not a particularly effective way to persuade someone of anything.
---StrongAxe on 12/11/16


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Jesus says He is the way to God (John 14:6).

So, if a Jew refuses Jesus, he or she is refusing the way to God, which can mean the person hasn't even gotten started but is relating with ideas and practices, instead of personally relating with God in His own peace ruling the person > Colossians 3:15.

But I understand that God does not want me to try to control Jews who do not want Jesus. So, I do not get involved in trying to change what they do and believe, if they do not want to trust in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12).

"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)
---Bill on 12/9/16


//Yew Ess of Aye.---Cluny on 12/8/16

Yes, in that kingdom.

Some truly believe their OWN Scriptures is measuring rod for EVERYONE AND FAITH of the world.

They are CLUELESS of others having different Scriptures than their own.

And dare to express distain of them and their beliefs
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/9/16


I don't know anyone trying to stop them, at least in the Yew Ess of Aye. Do you, Nicole?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/16


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