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Marriage Of HIV Couples

Marriage between HIV negative and HIV positive - share your opinions.

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 ---FRIDAH on 1/16/17
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Was Pope Francis thinking about indoctrination when he OPENED the Vatican residence to Muslims Exiles?

Or did he just wanted to make sure he OBEYED Jesus in John 21:15-17 FEED MY SHEEP AND LAMB or Matthew 25:31-46?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/24/17

Nicole, not every human is one of Jesus sheep. Do they hear His voice and follow Him? Ans : NO......then they are NOT His sheep. IF the Pope DID try to indoctrinate them, and they became believers, THEN he would be feeding Jesus Sheep. Please learn to rightly divide the Word of Truth Nicole, and stop abusing scripture to use to abuse others you have no idea what it means.

And stop yelling at people and falsely accusing them with BOGUS nonsense who simply don't agree with you.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/17


//You think because we speak out against indoctrination of false teachings we are complainers.//

You are so blind and have so much HATRED for the Catholic Church you can't see your own LACK OF CHARITY.

We are talking about HIV!

WHY in the world did you bring the word 'indoctrination' into the subject?

Was Pope Francis thinking about indoctrination when he OPENED the Vatican residence to Muslims Exiles?

Or did he just wanted to make sure he OBEYED Jesus in John 21:15-17 FEED MY SHEEP AND LAMB or Matthew 25:31-46?

//AND WE ARE PROLIFE!---KarenD on 1/24/17

WELL THEN ACT LIKE YOU ARE PROLIFE!

If you CAN'T speak prolife, you certainty will NOT be able to LIVE prolife.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/24/17


Aservant in Adam ALL DIE. the sting of death. The law of SIN AND DEATH. Will you find a verse using the word CURSE of man between Adam and Moses? Romans 5.... Sin was not even imputed where there was no law, YET DEATH REIGNED. Nothing about a CURSE reigning.

In Colossians 2, being delivered from the curse of the LAW, the LAW here is the Law of Moses. There was no CURSE given with the law of conscience. if there was ....please show that verse. If your verse in Lev and Deut applied to all unsaved then all unsaved would be dealt with equally dying of some horrible physical disease. We see no such thing. But we do see Chriatians do get cancer, and many from the ENVORONMENT, or polluted water, affecting both saved and unsaved.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/17


Aservant in Adam ALL DIE. the sting of death. The law of SIN AND DEATH. Will you find a verse using the word CURSE of man between Adam and Moses? Romans 5.... Sin was not even imputed where there was no law, YET DEATH REIGNED. Nothing about a CURSE reigning.

In Colossians 2, being delivered from the curse of the LAW, the LAW here is the Law of Moses. There was no CURSE given with the law of conscience. if there was ....please show that verse. If your verse in Lev and Deut applied to all unsaved then all unsaved would be dealt with equally dying of some horrible physical disease. We see no such thing. But we do see Chriatians do get cancer, and many from the ENVORONMENT, or polluted water, affecting both saved and unsaved.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/17


THIS is what you posted Aservant, not LONG LIFE. Long life is a blessing according to scripture.


In Lev 26 and Dt 28, The Lord promises disasterous physical ailments for disobedience.

Lev 26:26 (GNB) I will punish you. I will bring disaster on you---incurable diseases and fevers that will make you blind and cause your life to waste away . . .

Dt 28:20 "If you do evil and reject the LORD, he will bring on you disaster, confusion, and trouble in everything you do, until you are quickly and completely destroyed.
Dt 28:21 He will send disease after disease on you . . .
Dt 28:22 The LORD will strike you with infectious diseases, with swelling and fever . . .
---aservant on 1/18/17
---kathr4453 on 1/24/17




Aservant, as the Church is one with Christ, we being His Bride.....my question then is how are we mimicking this by having children? WE don't have children with Christ, and actually never will have children with Christ, so exactly how is the Church mimicking THE ONLY REASON TO MARRY IS TO HAVE CHILDREN???

People marry for LOVE, and many who love cannot have children. Should they divorce then?

And Nicole, the reason I believe in protection for those with HIV is so that there are no children born who WILL DIE....especially in third world countries.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/17


Aservant, 2nd point.....in Adam all DIE. So, even if one has an inner law of right and wrong, and they always do right all their life, they still fall short of the Glory of God. They will still die sinners. Jesus came to bring LIFE OUT OF DEATH. HEBREWS 2. No one can EARN salvation or be given LIFE by doing right...even if they were doing RIGHT all their life. From the very beginning, starting with Abel, OBEDIENCE OF FAITH WAS ESTABLISHED, as we see in the 11th chapter of Hebrews is all about FAITH...Faith has always been the ONLY thing God accepts. Faith in the coming redeemer promised in Genesis 3:15. No mention of anyone being righteous by obeying the LAW, even the LAW OF moral conscience.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/17


People get sick because we live in an imperfect world - Anything that dies is cursed. Buildings deteriorate, plants die, cars rust, cement crumbles, and so on.
Physical Death is a curse we all have to face - FYI curses are part of the Law, thus according to you the curses are of no effect because we are beyond the OT Law. Foolish.
AND Many a wonderful Christian has died of Cancer - Your own witness proves that the world is still cursed, depsite your theory that God no longer applies His law to this world. ---kathr4453 on 1/19/17
---aservant on 1/23/17


Many a wicked man has lived a wealthy healthy life well into his 90+ Years ---kathr4453 on 1/19/17

Riches and long life are OFTEN the curses imposed on them by God. You know nothing about the power of God. He told you, "Lean not to your own understanding." Obey Him. He said, "Be not wise in your own eyes." Obey Him. You have a child's understanding.
---aservant on 1/23/17


aservant:

You wrote: the ONLY reason for marriage is to have children

The Bible never teaches this anywhere. I am not aware of any church that forbids marriage between people who cannot have children (e.g. sterile individuals, women beyond the age of menopause, etc.), nor between couples who choose not to have children. I am not aware of any country that does so either - e.g. requiring fertility tests, or a covenant to conceive children in order to ratify marital status. Having children is one aspect of marriage, but hardly the only one. Many who can't have children also adopt.
---StrongAxe on 1/24/17




Nicole......Why do you assume so much? You think because we speak out against indoctrination of false teachings we are complainers. You think because we are not catholic we are not capable of serving our neighbors. The church where my husband is the pastor serves meals and has a food pantry which is furnished by the church members. No paperwork or ID required for assistance. AND WE ARE PROLIFE!
---KarenD on 1/24/17


Gentiles were never under the Law (of Moses) - They will be judged for sinning against the "light" they were given, their inner sense of right and wrong, their inner Law.
the ONLY reason for marriage is to have children - God's biggest reason for human marriage, is to mimic Christ's relationship to the Church - Eph 5:22-33, to not be fornicators - 1Cor 7:2, to have a platform from which to modify human selfishness to spiritual sacrificial love - 2 Tim 3:1-13, to sanctify an unbelieving spouse, to make children holy - 1Cor 7:14 ---kathr4453 on 1/22/17
---aservant on 1/23/17


Yes, if you are going to have relations with someone who has HIV, it is wise to have protection.
---mike4879 on 1/23/17


The old covenant AKA THE LAW - the Law is contained in the Pentateuch, not the entire OT
has been done away with - the Law has been FOREVER written in hearts and minds of His, chosen, elect, called, etc. - Heb 10:16
GRACE cannot coexist with the LAW - His people (Jew and Gentile) have the Law written in their hearts and minds, and are the ones who receive most Grace. ---kathr4453 on 1/22/17


Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put My Laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"
---aservant on 1/23/17


Karen, didn't you say your husband is a preacher?

Kathr, it is very despicable that you want to see children died because they are poor, or have some kind of disease that you were afraid of catching, or going to pay for, or take care of them.

At least the Catholic church is raising them.

Why don't you and Karen help instead of complaining?

ever heard of the slogan: pick up a shovel and dig or keep quiet?

That indoctrination lie is an excuse.

We don't force people to listen to Scripture for a bowl of soup like Protestants.

We give them a bowl of soup because they're human beings.

WE OBEY JESUS!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/23/17


More followers indoctrinated.
---KarenD on 1/23/17
Absolutely. What I find interesting is when you look at let's say Ireland in the past, the number of children in RCC orphanages, and now all these CC orphanages.....makes you wonder. I know Nicole wants to say how wonderful the CC is for having these orphanages all over the world, where these orphanages are most probably in RCC or CC dominated territory. Yet I see it as a failure of the CC in some way or another that so many children are either taken from parents OR are parentless. What's up with all these Catholic Orphans? And when hearing all the stories of abuse in these orphanages....hummmmm...
---kathr4453 on 1/23/17


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Nicole ask, "Do you have a favorite charity?"

Nicole, I love to support Water for Life, Operation Blessing, and I have never given but am looking in to the organization to sponser a child.
---john9346 on 1/23/17


Nicole states, "Kathr, protecting LIFE isn't a Catholic thing, it is God's mandate."

So so absolutely true Nicole...

To add to this condoms and Birth Control kills sperm preventing life from happening.
---john9346 on 1/23/17


No birth control....more babies. More followers indoctrinated.
---KarenD on 1/23/17


Condoms are physical barriers that can reduce the risk of a sexual exposure to HIV and sexually transmitted infections (STIs). They are made of materials that do not allow HIV or STIs to pass through them. Condoms can be highly effective against HIV and STI transmission when used consistently and correctly.

Let's cut to the chase Nicole. The CC is against giving and educating those poor uninformed women. IF you KNOW you may bring a child into the world with HIV, you have a CHOICE not to have children. I don't mean a CHOICE to abort. TWO entirely different matters. The CC false propaganda says protection makes it worse.. NOT TRUE. They say that because they do not believe in birth control under any circumstances.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/17


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Nicole....Thank you for clarifying. I now understand your opinions and where they come from.
---KarenD on 1/23/17


//who exactly pays the health bills for these 3rd world countries?//

The CC has FREE HOSPITALS AND CLINICS all over 3rd world Countries.

Catholic Charities and hundreds of Catholic Religious Congregations all over the world work for free as I did when I was a Religious.

//Do you Nicole?//

Of course.

//How much money do you give yearly to 3rd world countries where HIV is rampant and giving birth to babies who get HIV?---kathr4453 on 1/22/17

I will not say how much, but at least 10% of my salary.

5% to my local Church (which sends a partial to 3rd world Countries as well.) and 5% to my favorite charities.

Sudan Relief Fund is my favorite.

Do you have a favorite charity?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/23/17


Mike4879, the verse says Kingdom of Heaven, not Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of Heaven is AKA the promised 1000 year Kingdom Reign promised in the Law, and absolutely will be fulfilled regardless of what some believe, (that the Church replaced those promises.) NO the Church did not Replace those promises, only postponed them. Jesus clarified in Matthew, that heaven and earth will not pass away UNTIL the fulfilling of those promises.

Continue reading A couple verses below that say...unless your righteousness EXCEEDS the righteousness of the Pharisees. Well, we also see in Phil 3, Paul was a pharisee, who thought he was blameless, and shows how and what exceeding the righteousness of a Pharisee is. Also so does Galatians 2:20-21
---kathr4453 on 1/23/17


//I read the RCC is having a fit that the health organizations recommend protection to keep it from spreading further.//

The CC is upset with the WHO (World Health Organization) lies and methods that DO NOT WORK and MAKING IT WORST!

Remember this is the SAME agency stating it was safe to go to Brazil for the summer Olympics.

It is the Catholic Church who has hundreds of orphans of HIV children and those parents who died from AIDS.

//And who exactly pays the health bills for these 3rd world countries?--kathr4453

What are you saying? Because the Counties are POOR they shouldn't have babies?

I will answer your other false assessment AFTER you answer if POOR SICK people are allowed to have children or NOT?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/22/17


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Yes, that missionary was in Hawaii who got leprosy, then in a sermon to a congregation of lepers announced one Sunday "US LEPERS". He was respected for his compassion and selfless devotion and identified with the lepers.

Of God's law, if it no more applies, then why did Jesus say til heaven and earth disappear, not a word would vanish from it? and why did Jesus say that those who keep it will be great in the kingdom of God?
---mike4879 on 1/22/17


//Nicole.....Are you a nun?--KarenD on 1/21/17

No, I use to be a Religious (Nun/Brother) for 6 years under temporary vows. Due to health reasons my doctor refused/sign off for my final vows.

Because the doctor wouldn't give me a 'clear bill of health', so the Mother General couldn't let me take final vows.

If I had taken final vows before my Physician's letter, the Sisters would have allowed me to stay with the community.

//Nicole, my point is, people need to make decisions that are right for them, not right for you or the RCC.--kathr4453 on 1/22/17

Life ISN'T anyone's decision but God's decision.

You can't even commit suicide without sinning against God




---Nicole_Lacey on 1/22/17


Nicole, my point is, people need to make decisions that are right for them, not right for you or the RCC. Unfortunately many are born with AIDS in third world countries and I read the RCC is having a fit that the health organizations recommend protection to keep it from spreading further. And who exactly pays the health bills for these 3rd world countries? Do you Nicole? How much money do you give yearly to 3rd world countries where HIV is rampant and giving birth to babies who get HIV? If the individuals could afford these health bills, they would not be called third world countries. Half these women don't even know what HIV is or how they get it. And your church is against educating them on how to protect themselves. Shameful.
---kathr4453 on 1/22/17


Nicole.....Are you a nun?
---KarenD on 1/21/17


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Kathr, protecting LIFE isn't a Catholic thing, it is God's mandate.

//So I suppose you believe senior citizens way past child bearing age should abstain?//

You need to read St. Pope John Paul II 'Theology of the Body.'

I am surprised as a married woman you are so CONFUSED about God's gift of sexuality between a woman and her husband.

You should NOT deny your husband unless for medical reasons.

//chose not to have children because of the medical costs involved, they could not afford, and also don't want to pass on to the tax payers?--kathr4453

You don't decide NOT to have children because of your income.

According to your logical, married couples in 3rd world countries should NEVER HAVE CHILDREN.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/21/17


Aservant, Gentiles were never under the Law, then or now. Today we are under the dispensation of GRACE. People WILL BE judged because they have rejected Jesus Christ. The old covenant AKA THE LAW, has been done away with, yes even for the Jews. The age of GRACE cannot coexist with the LAW, or even mingle together with the Law. The law was a schoolmaster to bring one to Christ. It also can be used to show one what God calls sin, as all have sinned.

David prayed in the OT, "why do the wicked prosper and the righteous suffer" Gods answer, "look at their end, and look at yours".

Many a wicked man has lived a wealthy healthy life well into his 90+ Years Aservant So your THEORY and doctrine are all wrong .
---kathr4453 on 1/22/17


Anyone ever read about the missionary who lived among those who had leprosy? He knew it was contagious, yet he went anyway, laying down his life for others....what TRUE CHRISTIAN LOVE is all about. He did get Leprosy in the end, yet led many to Christ. This is what the heart of a TRUE CHRISTIAN IS. Not the heart of someone like Aservant, who may have gone, but would have EXPECTED God to heal everyone upon their repentance. And possibly would have cursed God himself if he contracted the disease.....under his own belief system believing he is above getting a fatal illness, and judging those as unsaved and unrepentant who do get fatal illnesses. And thinking healthy people are righteous.......I HATE THAT FALSE DOCTRINE TO THE CORE.
---kathr4453 on 1/22/17


Life begins at conception. I AGREE. That is why ONAN would be a saint by today's standards. He work the field and not plant. God saw that as wicked and struck him dead for it. People cheapen marriage not being open to kids. One wants children, another does not. This is about HIV. Children may enter into the scenario. It is good that people be informed and honest. Then it is between God and them.
---mike4879 on 1/21/17


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Nicole, your views are strictly that of the RCC, that the ONLY reason for marriage is to have children, and the ONLY TIME to have relations is strictly for the medicinal purpose of having children, I would expect nothing less coming from a Nun who has never married and was probably taught that way. So I suppose you believe senior citizens way past child bearing age should abstain? Maybe the couple in the question ARE SENIOR CITIZENS. Also Nicole, what if they were of child bearing age, and chose not to have children because of the medical costs involved, they could not afford, and also don't want to pass on to the tax payers? WILL YOU PAY? How much DOES the RCC pay for these families/children's healthcare?
---kathr4453 on 1/21/17


Nicole, no one, not even YOU have the authority to FORCE life...or force anyone to have children. Some women have their tubes tied, and men have V's, so there are many ways to avoid pregnancy's. Should a woman with a fatal heart disease be forced by your standards to continue having children? You say NO, they should abstain all together? Wrong Nicole.

Unless you also have your checkbook in hand , ITS ONLY YOUR OPINION, that might also kill someone.
---kathr4453 on 1/21/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: No because birth control is an ACTION to end life.

No. SOME forms of birth control abort an already-existing fetus (e.g. the "morning after" pill). Other forms do not - they merely prevent the opportunity for the fetus to form in the first place. For example, traditional estrogen pills prevent ovulation, so eggs never become available for fertilization (identical to the rhythm method, only more reliable), and condoms block transmission of sperm, so they never become available for fertilization. There is no difference whether the egg and sperm are an inch apart (through the above) or a foot apart (through abstinence) - there is no life formed, and no life aborted.
---StrongAxe on 1/21/17


How can you distinguish a disease someone has as a divine punishment . . . ---StrongAxe on 1/19/17

I can't know unless the Spirit tells me. But since most people in these blogs are not saved, they need to know they are under Law and will be punished in their bodies and minds. Only the called, chosen, elected, sanctified, and reserved are under grace - Eph 1:7, not those who THINK they are saved. Thus, when one has persistent physical ailments, it would be wise to ask Father what He wants them to repent of.

If they are healed after they repent, they will know they were suffering divine punishment - Heb 4:16.
---aservant on 1/21/17


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//our son is special needs. He is a blessing to us.//

I didn't know. But all the more reason why you shouldn't suggest a child shouldn't live because he or she MIGHT get HIV.

//Nicole...Just because the pope tells you not to use birth control does not make it right.---KarenD

You might need your Pastor to tell you that killing is a sin. I DON'T.

The Pope doesn't need to tell me that killing is wrong. It is one of the 10 commandments.

The Pope doesn't need to tell me that stealing is wrong.

I know the 10 Commandments.

Birth control kills.

Look at the words. It's tells you that it prevents life. It isn't hard to figure out what birth control means.

DENYING A CHILD TO LIVE.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/21/17


//KarenD has as much right to an opinion as you do.//

Not with someone else's life. Opinions can kill!

You know people read these blogs for guidance?

No one is asking Karen to raise the children with HIV.

So why Karen would insist that marriage people with HIV shouldn't have children?

WHY CAN'T THE CHILDREN EXIST?

//They will do what is right for them regardless of our opinions.---kathr4453

Wrong No one has the right to deny life. NO ONE!

//If birth control is evil, so is abstinence,---StrongAxe

No because birth control is an ACTION to end life.

Life already began and birth control prevents the embryo from adhering to the womb.

Abstinence doesn't end life at all.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/20/17


mike4879:

Onan's sin wasn't that he didn't want children. After all, all parents have the freedom to choose how many children to have and when to have them. Onan's sin was refusing to have children - AFTER he had already entered into a levirate marriage whose PRIMARY PURPOSE was to provide heirs for his dead kinsman. He was violating a covenant he had entered into willingly. THAT was why his action was so reprehensible. He was too selfish to raise someone else's kid that he had previously agreed to.
---StrongAxe on 1/21/17


Of children, Onan seemed to have the right idea, but God put him to death for it. Maybe on the day of judgment, Onan will stand up to accuse us, for our deeds (in the matter of children) are worse than Onan's. By standards of today, Onan would be a CHRISTIAN SAINT.
---mike4879 on 1/20/17

That had nothing to do with children on Onan's part, but not wanting to share his inheritance with what would be his brothers offspring. BUT Tamar did have her child which is also in the lineage of Jesus Christ. Can man THWART the purposes of God? NOPE?
---kathr4453 on 1/21/17


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Some on these blogs might remember that our son is special needs. He is a blessing to us. Nicole...Just because the pope tells you not to use birth control does not make it right.
---KarenD on 1/20/17


I don't see children in the question. However, I agree with KarenD here. My understanding is that this can be monitored so the baby does not contract HIV??? Also there is adoption, foster parenting, maybe there are children from another marriage here. Many couples marry ...yes even Christian couples who do not have children, possibly because of other inherited diseases...and these couples adopt.

Nicole, I think you are taking this blog way beyond what was asked, and KarenD has as much right to an opinion as you do. Some folks feel very strongly about this subject, to the point of no marriage at all. In the end, it's only our OPINIONS, and not final decisions we make. They will do what is right for them regardless of our opinions.
---kathr4453 on 1/20/17


Of children, Onan seemed to have the right idea, but God put him to death for it. Maybe on the day of judgment, Onan will stand up to accuse us, for our deeds (in the matter of children) are worse than Onan's. By standards of today, Onan would be a CHRISTIAN SAINT.
---mike4879 on 1/20/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Very true. I was adopted as an infant, and I am very grateful my birth mother decided it was better to put me up for adoption rather than put me out of my misery.

Most birth control prevents a child from being conceived, If taking birth control is wrong, because it prevents a potential child from being born, then the same must also be true for abstinence because it has the same effect, and so does not marrying.

If birth control is evil, so is abstinence, and young people should be forced to marry to have as many children as possible. Do you believe that? Because it is the logical (yet absurd) conclusion.
---StrongAxe on 1/20/17


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PLEASE anyone with HIV+, do not listen to Karen.

ONLY God gives LIFE or DEATH.

If God grants life in your womb your DUTY is to accept and TRUST Jesus!

Philippians 1:3-6..being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Do not take birth control playing God.

Don't you know that denying one child to live means DENYING thousands to live?

Deny that child's children to have life and so on.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness,

Even if the kid has Down Syndrome, HIV, TB or deformed.

The Child belongs to God.

TRUST JESUS!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/20/17


In my family, there is more sin in marriage than outside of marriage.
---mike4879 on 1/20/17


//Would you really want a baby go be born with HIV? Birth control time.---KarenD on 1/19/17

Just come out with it, Karen!

You want to deny LIFE to the baby because he or she MIGHT not be perfect!

And you call yourself Jesus' child?

You should be Ashamed of yourself!

You just DON'T want to pay any money to the possible care the baby might need

I know that NOT all babies born to HIV + parents get the virus.

But Karen DOESN'T want to take the chance!

DENY LIFE TO THE BABY BECAUSE KAREN IS AFRAID SHE MIGHT GET THE VIRUS!

How would you like it if someone told your parents to take birth control before you were born?

SHAME ON YOU!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/20/17


marriage, what does the marriage mean to the both? it is the oneness. if oneness, one could not exist wihtout the other one. then what the hiv means to both? to overcome in faith.
if not oneness, there is no need to marry. if you could not be sure the one will be your oneness or not, just pray God for the answer.
sorry for my poor english.
---ds on 1/19/17


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9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. ....... Then the next verse is about eunuchs.

The verse in context. And yes, marriage is better than fornication,( which a lot of touching over a period of time will lead to..... so it is better to marry.
---kathr4453 on 1/19/17


Nicole....You obviously are not familiar with HIV. Would you really want a baby go be born with HIV? Birth control time.
---KarenD on 1/19/17


You all amazes me!

Who made you King or Queen?

What about people with TB?

According to your thought process: people with TB shouldn't be ALLOWED outside because they can kill people.

Any other groups of people you all believe shouldn't marry each other?

Shouldn't have children?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/19/17


If this is the situation between a man and his wife, it is better not to marry. (Matthew 19:10)

It is good for a man not to touch a woman. (1 Corinthians 7:1)

In this day and age, it is better not to marry. My position is always against marriage. In the matter of HIV, it is all the more reason not to marry.
---mike4879 on 1/19/17


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Should one with HIV be treated as some would a leper?

BTW,STDs of all sorts may be transmitted in various ways, though perhaps less common.Many have been known to come in contact in labs for instance, or through blood transfusions given for medical conditions.
---chria9396 on 1/19/17


mike4879:

Good question. Why don't you ask that question of the billions of people on this planet who choose to marry rather than just becoming friends. Paul himself said it was better not to marry.

However, it is unfair to demand this of some people if you don't demand it of others, and it would be hypocritical to do so if you are married yourself.

Also, there are many legal protections that marriage offers free (e.g. hospital visitation, inheritance of property, custody of children, assuming spouse's family name, etc.) that "just friends" can't enjoy without much complex legal maneuvering.
---StrongAxe on 1/19/17


In Lev 26 and Dt 28, The Lord promises disasterous physical ailments for disobedience.////

Aservant, that was UNDER THE LAW. There were blessings and cursings for those who obeyed or disobeyed THE LAW.

All one has to do is look at Job to know what Aservant believes is false doctrine under GRACE. We are not under the LAW or the blessing and cursings under the LAW given to Israel.

We do not MIX Law with Grace. People get sick because we live in an imperfect world. Physical Death is a curse we all have to face, even those who are obedient to God to the fullest. AND Many a wonderful Christian has died of Cancer, heart disease etc, which could be environmental or heredity.
---kathr4453 on 1/19/17


aservant:

How can you distinguish a disease someone has as a divine punishment, rather than for other reasons?

It is a common misconception that if something bad happens to someone, they MUST have done something wrong. Children believe this (children of divorce blame themselves). Jesus's Apostles believed this ("why was this man born blind? His sin, or the sin of his parents?"), but were wrong. Jesus said those crushed by the Tower of Siloam were no worse sinners than anyone else. Also those who saw Paul bitten by the snake.

Many left the church after the black death, because it said it was a judgment from God - yet many saw one village decimated and another spared, even though neither was more evil.
---StrongAxe on 1/19/17


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Why not just be friends? Why must there be marriage? Why not just be friends? One can help the other with out marrying. Two can hangout together with out having to marry. Why should they not be friends? Why marry?
---mike4879 on 1/19/17


mike4879:

Why make it ideological? What about just marrying for love, and accepting a person's baggage (including imperfect health) as part of the package? Typical marriage vows include, "For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, as long as we both shall live". Accepting your spouse's ill health is an explicit part of the marriage covenant, whether it's HIV, cancer, Alzheimer's, diabetes, arthritis, or anything else.

Whether someone is a prostitute is not relevant to whether they have HIV (both prostitutes and non-prostitutes get it), and neither is related to whether to whether someone can marry. Some Europeans have natural HIV resistance, whether prostitutes or not.
---StrongAxe on 1/18/17


//Do you realize the child could be born HIV positive?---KarenD on 1/18/17

Yes

Do you realize you are suggesting NOT living at lot is BETTER than living with HIV positive?

You are making a life or death decision for another human being.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/18/17


In Lev 26 and Dt 28, The Lord promises disasterous physical ailments for disobedience.

Lev 26:26 (GNB) I will punish you. I will bring disaster on you---incurable diseases and fevers that will make you blind and cause your life to waste away . . .

Dt 28:20 "If you do evil and reject the LORD, he will bring on you disaster, confusion, and trouble in everything you do, until you are quickly and completely destroyed.
Dt 28:21 He will send disease after disease on you . . .
Dt 28:22 The LORD will strike you with infectious diseases, with swelling and fever . . .

Very few would knowingly become 'as one' with the Lord's punishments, that may last years.
---aservant on 1/18/17


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GO AHEAD and marry someone with HIV if you want! Do it to make a statement. The Bible not matter in it. Honor your father and mother doesn't matter in it. Just do what you feel.

CALL IT LOVE. Call it wisdom. Show your true color. Follow your conviction. Live by what you say. The blog invites discussion like the 95 Theses posted by Luther in Wittenberg. Like you, I give an opinion.
---mike4879 on 1/18/17


Strong Axe writes "This is about HIV, not prostitution."

Strong Axe, Are you saying that prostitutes do not have HIV, or that prostitutes cannot marry?

My understanding is that prostitutes are at high risk for HIV. But that some prostitutes have a resistance to HIV which scientists wish to study. Are we to remove prostitutes from the discussion of HIV and marriage when they better contribute to the discussion and are significant to the discussion? My opinion. I think that they are relevant to the discussion.
---mike4879 on 1/18/17


Fridah, even Strong Axe acknowledged that I said that HIV can be contracted in a number of ways. A dentist once complained to me that the same standards put on dentists for sterilizing instruments is not being placed on tattoo artists. One can squeeze only so many words into the limit we are given. Thus I highlighted the mention of prostitutes in the New Testament and contagious disease, the Old Testament.
---mike4879 on 1/18/17


mike4879:

You wrote: Strongax, if you want to marry people who are HIV POSITIVE KNOWING that they are HIV POSITIVE, that is up to you.

In many states, it is a felony for a HIV+ person to donate blood or have intimate relations without disclosing his status, so I was presuming that this question was about people entering into marriage knowingly, rather than being deceived (which is ALWAYS wrong).

Shall we join the members of Christ to a prostitute?

This is about HIV, not prostitution. As you said, HIV can be contacted a number of ways. (e.g. I personally know one person who is HIV+ due to an unfaithful spouse). Other issues may also apply, but they are independent of the blog topic.
---StrongAxe on 1/18/17


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mike4879

Mike, how does joining the members of the body of Christ to a prostitute fit in this discussion, pls elaborate because the statement can drive one to think that HIV positive people are prostitutes?
---fridah on 1/18/17


Nicole.....Do you realize the child could be born HIV positive?
---KarenD on 1/18/17


Many diseases are in the world today. And there are many ways someone can get HIV. Not just immoral behavior. That is between those people and the Lord. If say someone was a druggie and got HIV, and is NOW saved, AND FORGIVEN that does not mean that persons illness is automatically non existent. And if that person marries another Christian who knows someone's life past...if thats how HIV was contracted, that person is not joining a harlot, but a washed in the blood Christian. We need to be careful about judging others. Every disease we have is passed on or passed down by others one way or another. Innocent children who had been given blood transfusions in the past have HIV. Innocent people have even gotten it through a dentist.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/17


Strongax, if you want to marry people who are HIV POSITIVE KNOWING that they are HIV POSITIVE, that is up to you. This is all about opinions and giving OPINIONS. I have given an opinion. MY OPINION always disfavors marriage (Matthew 19:10 and 1 Corinthians 7:1). My opinion is even stronger against marriage in this. What is written? in the scriptures on the matter of contagious diseases? The Bible does speak. HIV can be contracted in a number of ways. Shall we join the members of Christ to a prostitute?
---mike4879 on 1/17/17


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Why can't HIV positive people be parents?

Really?

So a kid can't have the gift of life because his or her parent has HIV?

I am sure if you gave the kid an option of not existing at all or exist with a HIV parent, they will choose to EXIST!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/17/17


mike4879:

You wrote: It is a mistake. Other than that, are the parties aware of the HIV prior to marriage? Again, there is not wisdom in the marriage.

Can you elaborate on why it is a mistake? Yes, there could be problems if they are young people and have children, but there is no requirement that when two people marry that they necessarily have to produce children. Some couples remain childless, and others adopt. Whe two older people marry, they usually remain childless, and we don't frown on grandma or grandpa re-marrying once they are widowers, even though they can't or won't have more children.
---StrongAxe on 1/17/17


Getting married is one thing. Having a child is another. Hopefully they will not take that risk.
---KarenD on 1/17/17


It is a mistake. Other than that, are the parties aware of the HIV prior to marriage? Again, there is not wisdom in the marriage.
---mike4879 on 1/17/17


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Very informative comments, thank yo very much all.True, the HIV status of two adults intending to marry should not be business for everyone - but I know close family and church need to support the union. Unfortunately there are some believers who are against such unions even with the now common knowledge that HIV positive individuals can birth HIV negative children - of course with the correct medical supervision.
---FRIDAH on 1/17/17


What are the health of risk of any children?
---WIVV on 1/16/17


HIV isn't any different than any other contagious disease.

Very small group are immune to HIV.

***Researchers are trying to find out why some people carry a genetic mutation that makes them highly resistant to HIV infection. This mutation, called Delta32, keeps a protein called CCR5 from rising to the surface of the immune systems T cells.

When CCR5 is on the surface of the cell, HIV is able to latch on to it and infect the cell, when it is not, the cells door is effectively closed to HIV.

1% of Caucasians have it, and it is even rarer in Native Americans, Asians, and Africans. A 2005 report indicated that 1% of people descended from Northern Europe are virtually immune to AIDS---By Elaine Mendus and Trudy Ring
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/16/17


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