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Finish It Here HIV Positive

Finish it here. Marrying when one is HIV positive.

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 ---KarenD on 1/24/17
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Nicole said, "Sorry to Karen, Rita, Rob, David, John, StrongAxe, Mike and NurseRobert as well."

Nicole, ma'am, actually, I cant say you have ever done anything to me...

You defend what you believe just as anyone of us would do so. I don't take any of that personally.


I want to say thank you for the work you do by taking care of the sick...

Nicole, thank you for being a nurse...
---john9346 on 2/2/17


Indubitably Karthr,

I hope we can meet one day.

Love ya as well
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/2/17


Nicole, it's amazing what just one person can start.

Love ya...
---kathr4453 on 2/2/17


I didn't say he mentioned wool. I answered your question:

//Was Jesus covered with wool?//

Sorry I said verse 5 but I meant Rev 5:6: Then I saw a Lamb..

What does a Lamb wear? Wool

//Jesus frequently made use of metaphor and hyperbole, and so did John.//

I know. Why can't you believe that? Vine is one.

//You don't seem to understand the difference between literal and symbolic language.//

Surely are don't think I don't know those definitions?

We DISAGREE on what is a literal and symbolic language in the Bible.

//what kind of DNA..: Human, Sheep, Grape, Wheat--SrongAxe

All have Human DNA but Accidents of Wheat,sheep and grape.

Again,NOT DISPUTING REV 17:12 ADDRESS REV 5:6
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/1/17


Kathr, I am also sorry for my SMART mouth and SASSY attitude.

I have re-read some of my blogs and shocked myself.
I should have apologize when convicted by God at those times but didn't.

So first I apologize to God and you second.

Sorry to Karen, Rita, Rob, David, John, StrongAxe, Mike and NurseRobert as well.

If I left anyone out please let me know.

What a LOVE FEST Mark started & #128516,
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/1/17




Nicole_Lacey:

No, he didn't. John only mentions wool ONCE in Revelation. 1:14 says his HAIR was white LIKE wool. It wasn't ACTUALLY wool.

Jesus frequently made use of metaphor and hyperbole, and so did John. You don't seem to understand the difference between literal and symbolic language.

Please tell me what species Jesus was, and what kind of DNA he had. Please pick one:
1) Human
2) Sheep
3) Grape
4) Wheat

Rev 17:12 shows "is" explicitly shown as NOT literal.

John 21:25 is obvious hyperbole. One book written every SECOND of Jesus's life would be a billion books, much smaller than 6 billion humans, which the earth CAN easily contain.
---StrongAxe on 2/1/17


With God's help, I am seeing my part and I want to never do this again, to you or anyone else. Good for you, and the spirit in you.

Please forgive me if you can. There's nothing to forgive, you where simply stating your beliefs, and they are as valid to you, as mine are to me.

I would like to continue to blog with you, if possible. Why not, I took no offense, and meant no offense, and I really don't think you did.

Thank you for listening to me. Mark the minute I close my mind or ears to anyone, Is the minute I discontinue sharing and exchanging here.
---Josef on 2/1/17


I too would like to add that to Nicole, I have wronged you, and have acted unbecoming as a Christian and sincerely ask for your forgivness for all and any catty comments I have said to you. I am truly sorry. I really do love you Nicole. I think if you were ever in Atlanta, we could actually have fun getting to know each other in person.

I mean this to all here on CN. We don't accomplish one thing by insulting and tearing down another.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/17


There is no reason for anyone to speculate as concerning what I mean, or to read into my words.
---Josef on 1/30/17

I have wronged you, sir.

I have chased you, I have attacked you, I have acted in anger towards you in these blogs. I wanted to find something wrong with the way you believed and use it against you. I was wrong.

With God's help, I am seeing my part and I want to never do this again, to you or anyone else.

Please forgive me if you can.

I would like to continue to blog with you, if possible.

Thank you for listening to me.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/1/17


//Do you not understand metaphor and symbolic language?//

Did the Apostle John?

//Was Jesus covered with wool?//

Yes according to the Apostle John!

Are saying he didn't know the difference between a Man and a Lamb?

//If not, he was not LITERALLY a lamb.//

If yes, He was LITERALLY A LAMB.

//Was Jesus made of wheat? If not, he was not LITERALLY bread.//

Obviously He made himself wheat if He claims He is Bread for us to eat.

//Was Jesus made of grapes? If not,//

Of course if we are going to His Blood as Wine.

//The genealogies prove that he was LITERALLY human.//

And Jesus SAID His Blood is True Wine.

Revelation 17:12:---StrongAxe

I said Revelation 5:5
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/31/17




Nicole, I appreciate what you are saying, however, maybe others see it differently. That's what I mean about nit picking. Is Christ divided? What ever form or fashion OT type or shadow, Rev 22:16, Jesus says of Himself, I AM the "root and offspring" of David, AND the "Bright and Morning" star. That also has very profound meanings, as well as being absolutely true. The root and offspring....awesome.. Is Bright and Morning Star two different stars or the same Star... however AWESOME these verses are, revealing to us who and what .......its to be worshiped, not picked at. Please don't pick at my Lord. Be in awe of Him, and realize we don't know everything YET.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: That's how we know they are NOT symbolic.

Do you not understand metaphor and symbolic language?

Was Jesus covered with wool? If not, he was not LITERALLY a lamb.
Was Jesus made of wheat? If not, he was not LITERALLY bread.
Was Jesus made of grapes? If not, he was not LITERALLY wine.
The genealogies prove that he was LITERALLY human.

Revelation 17:12:
John saw HORNS, but the angel explained that those ARE ten kings. Symbolically horns, literally kings.
---StrongAxe on 1/31/17


Bad people were DESCENDED from existing bad people. Bad germs were EITHER descended from PREVIOUSLY bad germs, or they evolved later, or were created later. Which is it?////

Actually Strongaxe that didn't answer my question or statement. Bad people descended from Adam and Eve, who were created good people. And I believe everything was affected by Adam and Eve's sin. Even germs.

So I do not believe God created bad germs before the fall, or bad germs after the fall. He created germs, and through sin, that affected all life, the universe and the earth, ......and possibly became corrupted when God cursed the earth....

So the answer may be other than the limited "either / or " you presented.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Besides Lamb, Bread, and Wine, there are also Vine and Branch.---StrongAxe

No, only those 3 are proclaimed by other men.

That's how we know they are NOT symbolic.

John the Baptist called Him Lamb pointing Him out to his Disciples.

Beloved Disciple John states in his vision exactly what he saw and what was going on a Altar.

Blood from the Slain Lamb that wasn't dead. Rev 5:5

What lamb do you see walking around with blood pouring out of him and not be dead?

John 6:66 All but 12 Disciples LEAVE Jesus because He tells them they're going to eat Him in the form of Bread and drink His Blood in the form of Wine.

Jesus does not correct them and tells them it's all symbolically please come back.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/31/17


Kathr, your commentary on where do we shouldn't nit pick on matters of Jesus is wrong. Scholars have been Nit picking as you call it for centuries and for good reasons.

They debated Jesus being a man. Maybe He is a man only in appearance. Or maybe He's a man half the time. Or maybe His manhood is only a shell but His Divinity is literally inside but He is not fully a man as you and I.

They also said Jesus really didn't die on the cross. Maybe it was a pretend death.

He didn't feel any pain on the cross and so on and on.

John didn't see a shell of a Lamb slain. He saw The Lamb slain Jesus.

Why do you all limit Jesus' Powers?

He can create the Universe but God forbid if he becomes a Lamb, Bread and Wine.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/31/17


kathr4453:

My point is that "is" can be literal, or not, and any intelligent readers are expected to know the difference. Jesus IS a lamb (and one very specific one), but not a literal, biological one.

The reason I am involved in this ridiculous nit-picking is that some people just can't seem to understand the difference between different levels of reality, and insist on taking everything literally.

Bad people were DESCENDED from existing bad people. Bad germs were EITHER descended from PREVIOUSLY bad germs, or they evolved later, or were created later. Which is it?


Nicole_Lacey:

Besides Lamb, Bread, and Wine, there are also Vine and Branch.
---StrongAxe on 1/31/17


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Jesus is the Lamb of God, not just a lamb. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Then the Lambs book of Life. All this points to Jesus who died for our sin...as the types and shadows in the OT point to.

This nit picking is not what the Lord has asked us to do....Next thing some will want to disect whether the Lambs' fleece was white as snow? And if the poem was alluding to Jesus or an actual lamb, supposedly a true story in MA.

Next we will be disecting whether the Lamb ever got a sheering before being slain, and WHO has the sweater the lambs clippings are made out of. ..or whether bad germs were created before the fall, or if God continued creating after He rested. .....Silly and foolish questions AVOID....
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


Nicole states, "I have to remember to tone it down with some on CN."

Nicole, I agree and would add here when you want to dialog with them they want to debate and when you debate then they want to dialog.

One thing is helpful is to read the postings of the person you are debating or dialogging.

It is extremely helpful on how to address them never forgetting respect belongs to everyone whether agree or disagree...
---john9346 on 1/31/17


Josef, I am aware you can, and have the right to speak for yourself as everyone else.

But you have to admit you tore into me for for mistakenly thinking I misquoted you. No big deal I have done the same.

StrongAxe, please lets be honest with each other. Jesus became a Man but first he was a Divine Being then by God's power chose to be whatever He wished to be which was FIRST a Man.

Only 3 other Objective other does Jesus claim to be or another person claims.
The Lamb, Bread and Wine.

ALL BIBLICAL NT

Just Just answer this question please: if Jesus wanted to be a lamb, bread or wine is HE capable of being those three things?

If yes, then your question should be where in the Bible supports my claims.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/31/17


So Strongaxe, are you saying bad people were also created after the fall? Please show.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

Wrong. Jesus was LITERALLY and biologically a human being, not a sheep. The bible traces his lineage back to Adam. He was SYMBOLICALLY a sacrificial lamb, because he acted in the same function as a passover lamb. Visions are frequently metaphorical, and in many cases are explicitly described as such.

Jesus was not made of wheat, nor of grapes either. "is" described a kind of reality, but not a literal physical reality.


kathr4453:

If bad germs weren't created before the fall, they must have been created AFTER God said that he was finished with creation, or they must have somehow evolved on their own. Which explanation do YOU favor?
---StrongAxe on 1/31/17


Nicole what makes you think I take anything you or anyone else here says personally? I simply honestly stated a reality as concerning myself, and the way I express myself, whether in writing, or in person. I want to be understood, so I express myself as clearly as I can. There is no reason for anyone to speculate as concerning what I mean, or to read into my words.
---Josef on 1/30/17


//I am not what?--StrongAxeon

I was giving Josef an example of what Is symbolic and what wasn't symbolic.

But he mistakenly thought I was saying he actually said those words.

Thinking I lied on him he tore into me.

So I was implying he was not you in so much that you and I can debate bitterly without taking it personally.

I have to remember to tone it down with some on CN.

//Jesus was a lamb metaphorically, but not literally. He didn't bleat or give wool.---StrongAxe

BTW wrong. Jesus at the time of Passover became The Lamb to save us. That's why John literally saw a Lamb slain.

The same is true when Jesus states He is Bread and Wine in John 6. Literally.

The rest are symbolic.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/30/17


Who said there were bad germs created before the fall? A germ is a germ, just like a human is a human. Did God also create a disobedient human in the first 6 days, was lucifer created evil? Did something created in the first 6 days (Adam) or even prior to the 6 days ( Lucifer) enter into Them causing them to fall? Is death itself a disease? I believe it is. There is no such thing as a "sin" that can be looked at under any microscope. Yet sin affected everything, with man, universe, earth and animals, plants and GERMS. (:


Jesus will actually technically and literally be KING of Kings during the 1000 year reign. Please read Zechariah 12-14. That is LITERAL, not symbolic.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

Jesus was not a king in the LITERAL sense - he ruled no lands, had no armies, etc. He HIMSELF said "my kingdom is not of this world". That doesn't make him any less of a king, however.

StrongAxe you are not

I am not what?


kathr4453:

Deut 28 to Israel

Labor was declared in Eden, being redeemed has not changed that.

Genesis is not the CURSE OF THE LAW.

I didn't say it was a curse OF THE LAW.

WHEN God created germs has NOTHING to do with this discussion.

Yes it does. WHY did God create germs? If it was for a punishment, did he ALREADY KNOW the fall would happen beforehand?
---StrongAxe on 1/30/17


"Are you saying Jesus was a symbolic King?"--me

//Nicole I have no problem expressing myself. I say what I mean, and mean what I say.//

Relax, I was giving you an example. Go back and read my blog again.

I NEVER said you said that Jesus was a symbolic King.

I am telling you as you logically would know Jesus is King you should logically would know Jesus is the Lamb.

//There is no reason for you to assume anything concerning what I write, accept it, or reject it, just as it is stated, unless I personally correct it.---Josefon 1/29/17

StrongAxe you are not
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/29/17


Strongaxe, Deut 28 to Israel the nation was the verses in question, not the fall. Women who are redeemed still have the exact labor pains as Eve. People who are redeemed AKA SAVED, also get sick and die...and not because God has cursed them for the disobedience stated in Deut 28.

Not sure what the point is of totally changing the subject here. Cain was cursed too. But if man was already cursed man, why the double whammy. Was Cain DOUBLE CURSED? Did God inflict the plagues of Egypt on Cain? Please prove that through scripture. There is no such thing as the curse of the Law of Moral Conscience. SO Genesis is not the CURSE OF THE LAW.

WHEN God created germs has NOTHING to do with this discussion.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/17


Strongaxe, and secondly I do not believe God directly cursed Adam, God cursed the ground. God cursed the serpent. Adam and Eve brought death upon themselves.

We see something interesting. People always wonder why God cursed Noah's grandson and not Noah's guilty son. Just as Adam was a reflection of God, Noah's son was a reflection of Noah.

Death is a curse. But death was not a curse on Adam AFTER he ate the apple, as an added affliction because of his disobedience, it was the result that came INSTANTLY because of his disobedience. Two entirely different matters. God immediately wrapped Adam and Eve in animal skins.......that was no curse.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/17


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-------microbes through horizontal (or lateral) gene transfer, creating new disease-causing strains. A recent example of this process explains the emergence of the deadlyE. coli strain, O157:H7. Most strains of E. coli (found in the human gut) are harmless. The O157:H7 strain appears to have originated when toxin-encoding genes were transferred to a benign strain of E. coli from the microbe Shigella, a human pathogen.

DId God create HIV or did man by making a vaccine from a Chimp? I believe it was man. The earth and universe are created by God. But MAN mixing certain elements with another created the Atom Bomb.
And MANs byproducts of mixing and carelessly disposing have contaminated and killed millions, causing cancer too.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: You are speaking against Scripture.

Scripture often speaks in metaphor, and Jesus did so frequently. Both assume that the readers are sufficiently intelligent to be able to distinguish between literal references and metaphorical ones. Metaphors speak of a level of reality that isn't physical.

Jesus was a lamb metaphorically, but not literally. He didn't bleat or give wool. He was and wasn't a vine - he gave no grapes and wine. He was and wasn't a branch - nobody made furniture from his wood. Jerusalem was and wasn't a wife. Israel was both a man and a nation, and was and wasn't a wife. Bread and water are and aren't flesh and blood.
---StrongAxe on 1/29/17


"Are you saying Jesus was a symbolic King?"
Nicole I have no problem expressing myself. I say what I mean, and mean what I say. There is no reason for you to assume anything concerning what I write, accept it, or reject it, just as it is stated, unless I personally correct it.
---Josef on 1/29/17


//since Jesus is neither a lamb//

You are speaking against Scripture.

//John the Apostle that the Lamb's wife is the New Jerusalem, (Rev 21:9) and the New Jerusalem is described as a city in the next verse.//

Yes the Church

//Jesus is the bridegroom,--Josef on 1/29/17

Because He is the Lamb.

Read Exodus 12, John 6 and Rev 5
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/29/17


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"Its telling to everyone that you have to run to a source outside of "Scripture." to try to defend your, "Position."
John you were first to quote the source to me in an attempt to defend your, "Position." I thought that you trusted it. Your words, "JEHOVAH -"an erroneous pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, or four-lettered name of God made up of the Hebrew letters Yod He Vav He..." THE UNIVERSAL JEWISH ENCYCLOPAEDIA---john9346 on 1/15/17"
"Sir, my prayer is that you will repent and believe in the Christ of Holy Scripture..." Thank you, but I am fully capable of praying for myself. You assume way to much, and I have no desire to be misrepresented by you.
---Josef on 1/29/17


Josef, Lion and the Root of David are used as Titles. As the word 'King'. You can call Jesus King instead.

Are you saying Jesus was a symbolic King? No, not only is He not A King, but THE KING!

All other persons on earth are symbolic to Jesus, not the other way around.

Rev 5:5 proves my point. Title is used, but not in verse 6: Then I saw a Lamb...

If symbolic, John would have said I saw a Man or Jesus looking LIKE a Lamb.

Both Johns said Lamb because of Exodus 12.

You have to eat from the Lamb to be passed over!
John 6 Jesus is CLEAR! You have to eat Him to have eternal Life!

He is the new Moses. The Jews didn't substitute the Lamb with beef, or pretend to eat their lamb symbolically.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/29/17


"Noooo, John the Baptist NEVER use the word symbolically. John states "Behold the Lamb of God" Nicole whether you think John used the word symbolically or not, the term "Lamb of God" as well as "the Lion of the tribe of Judah" is symbolic, since Jesus is neither a lamb or a lion. One of the Angels of God showed John the Apostle that the Lamb's wife is the New Jerusalem, (Rev 21:9) and the New Jerusalem is described as a city in the next verse. Jesus is the bridegroom, and the disciples of Jesus are referred to by Him, as friends of the bridegroom, as witnessed by Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
---Josef on 1/29/17


kathr4453:

You wrote: I see God cursed the serpent and also the land.

Yes - BECAUSE of the fall. And also woman - who was cursed to labor in childbirth, and to be subservient to man. Apparently, childbirth is more painful for humans than most animals.

Childbirth itself wasn't the curse - labor DURING childbirth was.

Bacteria are not "caused" by decay - although they may flourish in it. If created during the 7 days, God made them before the fall (why?). If after, God created more AFTER day 7 (why no record?) OR they evolved (how?). All possibilities are uncomfortable.
---StrongAxe on 1/29/17


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aservants comments like, "Jesus worships God FOR US with tithes". Or this slight nuance of referencing God as "Father" not THE FATHER, ( a MORMON THINGY) believing we are still under the Law of Deut 28, OT the law of Tithing etc.......and this US having spiritual children "with " Jesus, suggests Aservant is possibly Mormon, of which I asked him directly if he was. When questioned and given scripture that clearly rebukes his teaching, he curses you, and says you are of Satan .... Again, not the FRUIT of a Christian. That's CLEARLY the fruit of a CULT.

He says he's been on here for 9 years, BUT that would have to be under a different name. WHY? I've been here for 13+ years, And have never changed my name.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/17


//Human Marriage is a copy of the true Marriage of the Church and Jesus"--Nicole_Lacey
I have never understood this analogy
**The church is the body of Christ,//

Yes, as when a man and woman join together they are one.

//and will be adopted by the Father as sons,//

Unions produces children so as Jesus and His Bride the Church makes us sons of Jesus' Father.

//as sons we will be joint heirs with Jesus, the Son,//

A child inherits whatever his Father inherits

//I understand Him to be symbolically represented by the lamb,--Josefon 1/28/17

Noooo, John the Baptist NEVER use the word symbolically. John states "Behold the Lamb of God"
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/28/17


Strongaxe, I do not see any scripture from Adam to Moses that so clearly defines God cursing with sickness and disease as was stated to Israel under the Law, the blessings for obedience and cursing or disobedience. Before the Law, there was no Law, Romans 5, so what you are talking about is the fall. I see God cursed the serpent and also the land. But if you call childbirth a HORRIBLE DISEASE, LIKE LEPROSY then even the animals who also go through labor are cursed with the HORRIBLE DISEASE OF CHILDBIRTHING, for disobedience vs obedience. I do not see a direct curse on man with the same stipulation as was given in Leviticus under the LAW. Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW, BEING MADE A CURSE FOR US.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/17


Strongaxe, Please read Deut 28. Deut 28 was never stipulated to Adam and Eve after the fall. This is all part of the Covenant God made with Israel UNDER THE LAW.

And this was never addressed to unsaved folks either. It was addressed to ISRAEL if they turned from God and His commandments. AND no such cursing is addressed to those already saved under the New Covenant.....Even if folks believe out of ignorance they are the New Israel. It's the same mentality as those who believe Gods WRATH was unleashed upon Haiti, or any natural disaster is Gods personal wrath upon them. Like you yourself mentioned re: the plagues. i believe you also brought up the blind man....????
---kathr4453 on 1/28/17


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Strongaxe, concerning the CREATION of germs and when....my understanding is all of creation took place before the 7th day. Funny people lived to nearly 1000 years, but maybe men were just healthier. Do you think Jesus as a human ever got a cold? If He did, just one sniffle, he COULD NOT have died for our sin, according to Aservant. Why do some in my office get sick when others don't , when the same virus goes around? Are the ones getting sick being CURSED with the CURSE of disobeying the Law of Moses? Maybe this should also be noted and kept in their employee file as DISOBEDIENT SINNERS. I thought all sinners are disobedient, just because they are sinners. Israel was ALSO SINNERS. The LAW didn't save them.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/17


Strongaxe, final answer on bacteria. It's now past my bedtime AND I really dont want to open a discussion between creation and evolution. But I THINK ( not a fanatic on the subject) bacteria is caused by decay, which is a death of sorts caused by the fall. A virus.... Not all viruses are bad, and again, not all bacteria are bad. Yogurt has good bacteria we need. So, why did I or my siblings never get the mumps, when everyone I knew as a child got mumps? I'm not special....but maybe something in our genes, NOT MY SOUL was not susceptible to that particular virus or bacteria.

Interestingly there is no mention of wine until AFTER the flood. Is it possible the decaying process was not as fast then as it is today? Who knows.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/17


kathr4453:

You wrote: ... the LAW of cursing given to earthly Israel alone, stated in Leviticus ...

How about the Fall, and the Flood, and the confusion of tongues, all of which affected all mankind, and not Israel alone? Weren't those all curses as well?

We know many sick people and children and even babies get sick, because we live in a world with GERMS! Genetic hereditary issues, even environmental issues that affect ALL, saved and unsaved alike.

This brings up another interesting question. Either God had already created germs BEFORE the fall (but why would he do that?), or he created them as an afterthought after creation was already finished. Which was it?
---StrongAxe on 1/28/17


//Nicole, Aservant believes that God inflicts people with horrible sickness and diseases using the LAW of cursing given to earthly Israel alone, stated in Leviticus,

Christians are not under the LAW of cursings.---kathr4453on 1/28/17

I don't think aservant means what you and StrongAxe think.

Since Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the law, but fulfill it seems to be the confusion.

aservant may be looking at David's son (Solomon's brother) death because of his sin.

But I still believe the prayer on my behalf was a typo.

No matter, God understands accepted the prayer and I am grateful

I know I will NOT be held responsible for a singe sin of my father.
---Nicole_Laceye on 1/28/17


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Nicole, Aservant believes that God inflicts people with horrible sickness and diseases using the LAW of cursing given to earthly Israel alone, stated in Leviticus, he already has laid out listing those scriptures on another thread taken from Leviticus.

Christians are not under the LAW of cursings. Aservant seems to believe as THE ELECT, he is under grace, where this does not apply to HIM, but for some reason that curse applies to YOU.
He believes all sick people are in fact cursed by God for some reason or another.

We know many sick people and children and even babies get sick, because we live in a world with GERMS! Genetic hereditary issues, even environmental issues that affect ALL, saved and unsaved alike.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Regardless, comment shows the same error in thinking the Apostles with the man born blind. They assumed that when someone was sick, it HAD to be because of sin, either his or his parents'. Jesus said neither.

There is a pernicious "blame the victim" mindset in many Christian circles, where if something bad happens or prayer doesn't fix it, it MUST be because of the victim's unrepentant sin. Job is a perfect example where this is wrong.

God CURSED Eve with painful childbirth and the serpent with leglessness AFTER the fall. Adam was not a genetic engineer. God is.

God MUST have intended Original Sin - else why was Jesus "the lamb slain from the FOUNDATION of the world"?
---StrongAxe on 1/28/17


Kathr and StrongAxe, aservant's statement has an obviously typo. He meant 'he' and not 'she'. That's how I saw it.

***tell Nicole which of her Dad's sins she needs to repent of, and which of her sins she needs to repent of***

//Wouldn't you consider designing the laws of nature to be a deliberate act?//

No, because we were nice and safe in the Garden of Eden. You keep forgetting that.

//Man's sin didn't alter his biology.//

Yes it did! Women have children in pain. It wasn't the case because God told Eve that would be her punishment.

//God lays the sins of the father on his children//

No He didn't. Adam did that!

StrongAxe, because God is Omniscience doesn't mean He intended original sin.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/27/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Wouldn't you consider designing the laws of nature to be a deliberate act?

Man's sin didn't alter his biology. God did, as a punishment. God lays the sins of the father on his children - in spades.

Note God must have INTENDED for the fall to happen. Remember, Jesus was "the lamb slain before the foundations of the world". This means God must have ALREADY known Jesus would have to have to be slain to atone for the sins of man, even BEFORE he had created earth or man.


aservant:

You please tell Nicole which of her Dad's sins she needs to repent of, and which of her sins she needs to repent of

This makes the same faulty assumption the Apostles made with the man born blind.
---StrongAxe on 1/27/17


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CLUNY....You alright? Haven't seen any posts lately.
---KarenD on 1/27/17


//Maybe this should be our New Years resolution to one another.---kathr4453

Indeed.

//IF you consider preventing a fertilized egg from implanting to be murder,//

Only murder if a person contributies to the demise of the fertilized eggs. Abortion is a deliberate act from an oriented person.

//Since God himself created natural law, this would make God the greatest abortionist and murderer on the planet,---StrongAxeon 1/27/17

We had this conversation before.

God isn't responsible because we sinned.

Remember God didn't create this nature for man. It was perfect in the Garden of Eden.

God had to dress man for the elements before He kicked us out.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/27/17


-----please tell Nicole which of her Dad's sins she needs to repent of, and which of her sins she needs to repent of, so that You would be willing to restore his health - Lev 26:40-41.
---aservant on 1/25/17

I don't see any NT scripture stating one must confess and repent for a parents sin......nor do I see any scripture God punishes innocent people for someone else's sin.

Yes we all must always reflect on our daily walk, but not out of fear of being cursed. Your father or his relationship with the Lord has NOTHING to do with any CURSE coming upon you, or vice verse.

The curse of the Law was nailed to the cross, taken out of the way. And Nicole you are not under the LAW or the LAW of curses.

Keep us updated.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/17


Nicole ,here are scriptures to back up what I said earlier. Aservant is still under the curse of the Law, because he is still hanging on the tree and has never been raised up together with Christ now living under GRACE.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
---kathr4453 on 1/27/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

Of all human eggs that are actually fertilized, half or less implant grow - half or more die. This is natural attrition of the human reproductive system.

IF you consider preventing a fertilized egg from implanting to be murder, THEN the laws of nature themselves murder more fetuses than are actually born - and even if women aborted 100% of all babies (which is certainly not the case), that would STILL be less than nature kills.

Since God himself created natural law, this would make God the greatest abortionist and murderer on the planet, killing more than half of all humans before birth. I am sure you don't believe that, but it's the inevitable conclusion of believing that preventing implantation is murder.
---StrongAxe on 1/27/17


Nicole, thank you for the update on your Father. I am so glad he is ok.

I know many here have been praying for your father. And it looks as though the many prayers of many here were answered.

Let's keep debating, and continue to try to understand what the other is saying before things escalate and then it becomes personal. Maybe this should be our New Years resolution to one another.

God Bless
---kathr4453 on 1/26/17


Thanks aservant, my father is stable and back to his base line.

GOD IS MERCIFUL.

Thank you for reminding me of the need of reflecting on my sins.

I am sincerely searching my soul.

To anyone on CN I might I have offended, I AM SORRY.

I pray no one takes my replies personally.

Kathr, I know I get on your last thread nerve. But out of everyone on CN, I truly enjoy debating you. StrongAxe is 2nd.

God bless
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/26/17


Please pray for my father. He is in the ER now. ---Nicole_Lacey on 1/25/17

Precious, Holy, Father,

You are a great and mighty God, and the ONLY Living God!

Nicole's Dad needs your healing. If this sickness is not unto death, would You please tell Nicole which of her Dad's sins she needs to repent of, and which of her sins she needs to repent of, so that You would be willing to restore his health - Lev 26:40-41.

After she obeys and repents of what you specifcally instructed, would you please heal and restore her Dad, as You are pleased to do so.

Thank You, Jehovah Ropha, Jehovah Shammah, Jehovah Rohi!

Bless You, Precious Father. Amen.

aservant
---aservant on 1/25/17


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Please pray for my father. He is in the ER now. Stable but they had to code him earlier.

//Nicole, if no egg is released...then it cannot attach or even detach from the wall it never comes in contact with to begin with.---kathr4453 1/25/17

Do you normally only read half an article?

Kathr, the evil one isn't happy until he convinces us to use every type of method in killing our babies.

Most women still releases eggs when they only take one type birth control pills

So they invented a combination hormone pill.

One to try to prevent releasing the egg, then if that doesn't work they have PLAN B!

Plan B is thinning the lining of the womb.

Morning pill is exactly PLAN C. it's over the counter.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/25/17


Nicole, if no egg is released...then it cannot attach or even detach from the wall it never comes in contact with to begin with.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/17


Kathr,you cut the article short.

I just quoted from that SAME article in another blog.
It speaks about fertilized eggs not being able to attach to lining of the womb.

You left that out.

That is deceitful.

That isn't nice.

That isn't Christian
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/25/17


Correct me if I am wrong. I was under the belief that birth control pills kept the woman's egg from falling to the place it would then be fertilized, called ovulation. I've never heard birth control pills actually murder a fertilized egg in the womb. Now I believe the morning after pill does this.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/17


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Birth Control pills work through several mechanisms, mainly by stopping ovulation. If no egg is released, there is nothing to be fertilized by sperm, and the woman cannot get pregnant. Apr 21, 2015
Columbia University


So, yes, just as I thought, there is no murder going on with Birth Control pills either.

Nicole, as a nurse, maybe you need to take some extended classes in educating yourself with real facts, rather than RCC or CC false propaganda.

But again, Birth Control pills do not provide protection for the woman when it comes to contracting HIV.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/17


You are slight right, Chria.
Birth control pills are only allowed for medical reasons.

I had to take birth control pills because my hormones was causing me to vomit constantly. birth control pills of basically hormones pills.

Birth control pills are never allowed to prevent pregnancy.

Even if birth control pills didn't cause abortion they are still not allowed because of the Marriage Covenant. (Condoms as well)

Birth control pills and condoms causes One to conveyed through the body to the other spouse of NOT completely giving oneself.

Thus using the other spouse as an object.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/25/17


do NOT know that they are themselves chemically aborting several babies a year.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/25/17

I am sorry but this is wrong.

Normal birth control prevents ovulation. If there is no egg, there can be no baby, and no baby to abort.

What you are describing is called the "morning after pill" which is a definitely an abortion pill. I know no Christians who use this kind of pill.

Whether the pill is cancerous is not a fact. Many place the link to cancer on the manipulation of estrogen levels in women, such as HRT in menopausal women.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/25/17


Nicole.....How many children do you have? I have three. I agree that birth control pills are dangerous to a woman's health so I never used them. In fact, I think they cause hormonal problems which result in the problems many people have today regarding gender identity. However, there are other means that are safe. I chose tubal ligation.
---KarenD on 1/25/17


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//birth control pills are nothing other than chemical abortion, and you are not TRULY PRO-LIFE in using pills to destroy pregnancy.--mike4879

//since He formed the babies in their mothers' wombs, essentially giving those babies His Royal permission to live?--aservant

I thank you both for speaking the truth about birth control pills.

Unfortunately the evil one is at it again using clever words tricking Eve's daughters.

Many women sincerely, truly and innocently do NOT know that they are themselves chemically aborting several babies a year.

Ladies trust in Jesus.

He is MERCIFUL and LOVES you.

Just PLEASE STOP swallowing that cancerous pill.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/25/17


It had been my understanding that the Catholic Church's stance on birth control is that it is OK as long as it is not abortive, such as things which either prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg or something that would destroy or eliminate a fertilized egg soon after conception.

Things which prevent conception would be OK.
---chria9396 on 1/25/17


//Being pro-life does not mean that we cannot believe in birth control//

Study the words. It doesn't say 'CONCEPTION PREVENTION'

No it states BIRTH CONTROL meaning to PREVENT the birthing process.

This is hard to understand.

//I have lots of Catholic friends who believe in birth control.//

???
So if I have lots of Protestant friends who steal daily would that make it right?

Of course they are your friend. You are NOT going to make them feel guilty or ashamed.

//I also have lots of friends who left the Catholic church and other cults when they read and studied the Word of God for themselves.---KarenD

And I KNOW many Protestants who became CATHOLIC After studying the WORD for themselves.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/24/17


I do not think people should marry when HIV POSITIVE. That is my opinion. It is not for me to decide for you. It is good for a man not to touch a woman. (1 Corinthians 7:1) It is better not to marry. (Matthew 19:10)

On this other matter, birth control pills are nothing other than chemical abortion, and you are not TRULY PRO-LIFE in using pills to destroy pregnancy. Better to be like Onan than to do that.
---mike4879 on 1/24/17


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Being pro-life does not mean that we cannot believe in birth control. I have lots of Catholic friends who believe in birth control. ---KarenD on 1/24/17

REAL (i.e., Spirit filled) Christians obey God and do His bidding, as His servants. Many sincerely believe they are Christian, and believe they have freewill over their own bodies, not realizing Christians have been purchased as God's property - 1Cor 6:20, 7:23, and are not free do what they wish without penalty. A runaway slave often forfeited his foot, to impair running.

The question is, does God believe in human birth control, since He formed the babies in their mothers' wombs, essentially giving those babies His Royal permission to live?
---aservant on 1/24/17


Thank your moderator.

Nicole.....I gave a great deal of thought when I chose the word "indoctrination" in my comments and it fits. The Catholic church is not the only denomination which practices this. This is how some denominations keep alive. Being pro-life does not mean that we cannot believe in birth control. I have lots of Catholic friends who believe in birth control. I also have lots of friends who left the Catholic church and other cults when they read and studied the Word of God for themselves.
---KarenD on 1/24/17


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