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Praying From A Book

What is the difference between singing from a hymnal and praying from a book?

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 ---Cluny on 2/2/17
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John, I realize some new translations have changed the word SON to servant, as we see also the JW as well have, who also deny the deity of Christ. When I see words like you have posted here, it does make me wonder what their understanding was of the DEITY OF CHRIST. Those prayers could appeal to Mormons, JW or anyone who denies the Deity of Christ. Therefore, I am not impressed with your posted prayers. Jesus Christ Is LORD, and only those filled with the Holy Spirit can attest to that. IF those prayers were in fact prayed IN THE SPIRIT, the SPIRIT would refer to Jesus as LORD. The prayers are made to look high and lofty, but actually fall flat to BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS.
---kathr4453 on 4/3/17


"Grant what thou commandeth, and command what thou dost desire." Augustine
---john9346 on 4/3/17


Polycarp's Prayer of Martyrdom:

"O Lord God Almighty, the Father of your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, by whom we have received the knowledge of You, the God of angels and powers, and of every creature, and of the whole race of the righteous who live before you, I give You thanks that You have counted me, worthy of this day and this hour, that I should have a part in the number of Your martyrs, in the cup of your Christ, to the resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and body, through the incorruption [imparted] by the Holy Ghost. Among whom may I be accepted this day before You as a fat and acceptable sacrifice,"
---john9346 on 4/3/17


kathr4453:

You wrote: not one NT verse refers to Jesus as SERVANT.

John 13 tells about Jesus washing his disciples' feet. Foot washing was servant's work. He said we should wash each other's feet (i.e. be servants to one another), but he showed by example - by literally becoming a servant himself.
---StrongAxe on 4/3/17


2 Corinthians 4:5

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.


I do find it interesting how John's prayers have Jesus TODAY, in a position of servant and David's servant as well, and not as LORD, or SON. Kinda like how the RCC STILL have Jesus on a cross, and not risen. Jesus Today Is exalted, where He beforehand chose to humble Himself and became obedient unto death.

John, not one NT verse refers to Jesus as SERVANT. WE are HIS servants. HE IS LORD? Even Paul,in his prayer Ephesians 3:14-21 does not refer to Jesus as servant.

Your prayers teach false doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 4/3/17




Greatest prayer ever. Eph 3:14-21 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ------ That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man, That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, -- being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height, And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
---kathr4453 on 4/3/17


"We thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of David Your servant, which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant, to You be the glory for ever."
"We thank You, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant, to You be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Your Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Your kingdom, for Yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever. But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist),

The Didache Ch 9
---john9346 on 4/2/17


"We thank You, holy Father, for Your holy name which You caused to tabernacle in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality, which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant, to You be the glory for ever.
---john9346 on 4/2/17


You, Master almighty, created all things for Your name's sake, You gave food and drink to men for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to You, but to us You freely gave spiritual food and drink and life eternal through Your Servant. Before all things we thank You that You are mighty, to You be the glory for ever. Remember, Lord, Your Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in Your love, and gather it from the four winds, sanctified for Your kingdom which You have prepared for it, for Yours is the power and the glory for ever. Let grace come, and let this world pass away. Hosanna to the God (Son) of David!"

Didache ch 10
---john9346 on 4/2/17


john9346:

Exactly. Citing Calvin with respect to music can be out of acknowledgement, without necessarily validating all of his teachings and actions. Even though he may have had an imperfect theology (and very flawed personal ethic, since he thought murdering people who disagreed with him), that doesn't necessarily taint every single thing he did.
---StrongAxe on 4/2/17




Strongaxe,

Citations in this context is out of respect and honor to my brothers...

God calls us to learn in community with others even if they lived thousands or hundreds of years ago.

These prayers shows us and teach us the legacy, heritage, and identity as, "Christians."
---john9346 on 4/2/17


Look, people have the FREE WILL to do whatever they like. And John has used his free will to express himself and his beliefs here, as well as Luke. It's called FREE WILL. And they are FREE to believe and worship in any manner that tickles their fancy. But that is THEIR THING. And it's not everyone thing. Those of us who practice our OWN FREE WILL choices to worship and believe as we choose to believe, choose not to exalt man above what he should be.

Are we finally clear here? Or do I need to put in QUOTATIONS that these are MY WORDS AND BELIEFS? John and Luke FORCING THEIR BELIEFS on others is their Idea how God works on others FORCING THEIR WILL on others. SEE how I have the free will to resist? ...and still believe:)
---kathr4453 on 4/2/17


kathr4453:

Posting words with attribution, and stating or implying some sort of special validity due to their source, is an appeal to authority (which may be a logical fallacy, depending on the context).

Posting words with attribution and no further qualifying comments is the normal practice for citations.

Posting words without attribution can be plagarism, unless it's clear that it's quotation.
---StrongAxe on 4/1/17


I don't care if you or John collect Mother Goose Nursery Rhymes either. If that is what you feel you need, or somehow feel more spiritual, or more Godly, or that you have more favor with God for collecting someone's prayers....

But I don't recall John stating it was his own personal hobby. And the question above is not asking people what their own personal HOBBIES ARE. If John wants to turn old prayers into songs and think there is some sort of power in those old prayers....WRONG. And posting them here.....was just another way of John promoting CALVIN, so that we could all,oooowww and aaawww about Calvin. If John just liked the words alone, he could have posted those WITHOUT saying where it came from.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/17


I agree that rote prayers tend to become old and stale.
---StrongAxe on 3/30/17

Strongaxe,

It only becomes old and stale if one lose the focus of knowing who they are worshipping...
---john9346 on 4/1/17


kathr4453:

I don't know why you're suddenly bringing Calvin or Augustine into this discussion, becuse they were never mentioned before. The point is, is it EVER profitable to listen to teachers, preachers, evangelists, theologians, etc.? If so, you can't just dismiss someone and his teachings just because he's one of the above. If not, you might as well not bother going to church at all.

---StrongAxe on 3/27/17

so so absolutely correct...
---john9346 on 3/31/17


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Kathr, concerning what John wrote about the prayers of John Calvin and others and putting them all in a prayer book, I don't see one thing wrong with that. Not one thing. I didn't see anywhere where he said that he was going to pray the same prayers over and over. All he said that he was collecting them and putting them together.
You always have to find one thing wrong with anyone who doesn't agree with you on some points and you try, like the liberals to find something wrong.
Why not be a good Christian lady once in a while. You talk and talk about Jesus Christ, now start being into the image of Jesus Christ as you wrote.
---Luke on 3/31/17


Hello everyone, Here's Kathr's Statements clarifying that she do not have knowledge of the Church Fathers:

Does your " church father" have the same Biblical meaning of "father" as one of maturity? Children, young men, then fathers? Do I KNOW they were OVERCOMERS? That is overcome the evil one as young men first? Did they suffer like Paul and Peter? OR were they just highly educated philosophical men debating the scriptures and heretics at that time?

Were any put in prision for their faith? In other words what are the MARKS they bore in their body of the Lord Jesus?
---kathr4453 on 12/31/16




---john9346 on 3/31/17


steveng and david,

The Didache existed long before there was a system known asthe (Eastern Orthodox) and (RCC)

Can either one of you gentlemen state for everyone here where the Didache is (RCC)??
---john9346 on 3/31/17


kathr4453:

You wrote: Strongaxe, this was John's first post. Maybe you didn't go back far enough.

I didn't see it when I looked, but I see it now, so I must not have looked hard enough. Oops! Sorry about that.

I agree that rote prayers tend to become old and stale.
---StrongAxe on 3/30/17


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I'm actually putting to gather aPrayer Book.

Some of the prayers I have collected are by John Calvin, Spurgeon, and Adonarim Judson
---john9346 on 2/2/17

Strongaxe, this was John's first post. Maybe you didn't go back far enough. Not an issue. I guess having a prayer book is ok for some, but I believe in the power of prayer, and that that power comes to us via the Holy Spirit at the time we pray from the heart. I do not believe there is any power in recycled, repurposed prayers others have prayed. To me it's like eating week old manna....which was forbidden in the OT. They had to eat fresh manna daily. And that there is a spiritual lesson in that....we read in John 6. Some may not even see the spiritual side of that.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/17


kathr4453:

You wrote: Actually Strongaxe, my conversation was answering John, which happened to,be about Calvin and Augustine.

OK. I just looked at the entire visible blog history, and couldn't find any reference to Calvin or Augustine. This site only seems to keep messages going back so far (or at least, only shows a limited number of messages, not all 75).
---StrongAxe on 3/28/17


Actually Strongaxe, my conversation was answering John, which happened to,be about Calvin and Augustine. You decided to jump in and finish, but in finishing for John, you did not go back and read from the beginning my conversation with John here and on another blog.

To answer the blog question, I don't believe in praying from a book, I believe we pray from the heart. Singing songs is something totally different. But even with songs you need to be careful, because many are written with false doctrine, like Kingdom Now Theology tones.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/17


kathr4453:

I don't know why you're suddenly bringing Calvin or Augustine into this discussion, becuse they were never mentioned before. The point is, is it EVER profitable to listen to teachers, preachers, evangelists, theologians, etc.? If so, you can't just dismiss someone and his teachings just because he's one of the above. If not, you might as well not bother going to church at all.
---StrongAxe on 3/27/17


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Strongaxe, my pastor doesn't have a doctrine or movement named after him. We practice the belief of not thinking of any man more important than another. We also believe in the individual priesthood of each believer. Neither Calvin, Augustine, or Smith did. We believe Calvin, although he pulled away from the RCC on SOME teachings, still practiced many RCC teachings ...infant baptism, for one, along with the attitude of NOT allowing LIBERTY to believers. He also murdered, and cruelty lorded it over the Church.....something even the apostles did not do. We also believe in free will, and that Jesus died for the sin of the whole world. But not all will put their faith in Jesus for the forgivness of sin.
---kathr4453 on 3/27/17


Strongaxe, when one is steeped in scripture, and grounded in the Covenants Of scripture, it's easily exposed that Mormonism is not of scripture or based on ANY Covenants in scripture. Also knowing and understanding Hebrews exposes the false doctrine of Mormonism. Sure someone writing a book about the false doctrine of Mormonism and using scripture to back up is also,something any Christian who knows scripture can do.

Anything OUTSIDE OF SCRIPTURE, not grounded in scripture is Gnosticism.....we need to stay away from. The Holy Spirit is not an independent contractor teaching something new and different. Maybe that's what is wrong with Calvinism and Augustine's teachings. The Holy Spirit points to the Word of God.
---kathr4453 on 3/27/17


kathr4453:

If Calvin and Augustine's words don't do it for you, but your pastor's do, does that mean your pastor is better than they were?

The point I was trying to establish is, HOW MUCH truth is in the Bible itself, and how much must come from outside (e.g. HS's inspiration)? People can agree objectively to what is written, but enlightenment is subjective, since two different people will say HS showed them a scripture means two different things, and both can't be right. Look at how Mormons justify belief in the Book of Mormon - "ask God, and he will confirm that it is the Word of God", and they will say He has done so, but most Christians would disagree.
---StrongAxe on 3/27/17


---StrongAxe on 3/25/17

Strongaxe, you made three comments here..all of which make no sense and simply do not apply to my beliefs...especially this last one of yours.


FAITH COMES BY HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. Faith does not come by studying Calvin or Augustine. Here is how it works for me Strongaxe. I read the WORD andthe Holy Spirit ENLIGHTENS OR BRINGS TO LIFE The Word I am reading in scripture. THe Holy Spirit simply does not do that when I read Calvin or Augustine. It could be their words are not God breathed. It's the difference between RELIGION AND CHRISTIANITY.

Question, if you have so many books, why do you need the Bible?
---kathr4453 on 3/26/17


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Strong axe, God gave GIFTS to His Body....teachers, evangelists, ..until we all come into the UNITY of the faith, not tossed and turned by every wind of doctrine that comes along in every thing BUT simply believing the scriptures. I believe because of so many books, even today...what a huge market pushing the latest fad or movement of the latest most popular preacher. It's never stopped. Yet it never needed to start.

You failed too to answer my question re James 1. God won't steer you wrong....man will. These books have YET to be tried by fire to see if they even stand the test of truth. Scripture HAS been tried. The Word of God has been tried 7 times. My money is on the Word of God.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/17


Strongaxe, finally, to see what the books and works of Calvinism has done, Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Augustine the Gnostic...man made interpretations of the doctrines of Devils....and this you promote. NO THANK YOU. The very truth of the matter is Strongaxe, one must FIRST present themselves a living sacrifice to even KNOW the will of God. No one can cheat on this one. And to have the mind of Christ is something Jesus Christ HIMSELF gives as we are being conformed to His image...THROUGH THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUFFERINGS, again, no cheating here either. And as James says, the WORD OF GOD ENDURES FOREVER...the words of man will not. The Lord has always answered EVERY question I have ever had. And going on 40 years...has never mislead me.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/17


kathr4453:

I heartily agree with you about Bereans, but if you take your argument to its conclusion, it means we don't need preachers AT ALL, since they tell us nothing not already in the Bible. Furthermore, there is no reason why ANY of us should be on this blog, since there is nothing anyone can teach us that isn't already in the Bible. Might as well pack up our computers and go home.

This very attitude is used to excuse destroying libraries (i.e. one Muslim leader said that if books agree with the Qur'an, we don't need them, and if they don't, they are heretical and must be destroyed.)

Also, if the Holy Spirit is teaching us what the Bible means, why need the Bible at all? Why not just teach us directly?
---StrongAxe on 3/25/17


Strongaxe, I disagree. Scripture teaches scripture. Everything we need to understand the Gospel is right in scripture. If scripture was good enough for the BEREANS, it's good enough for us today. the Bereans searched the scriptures daily...and says nothing about the writings of anyone else. Are you saying they LACKED because Augustine or Calvin wasn't around to EXPLAIN what this or that meant? Obviously no such person was needed then. Seriously Strongaxe, I know this is something most of you have been brainwashed to believe...but I BELIEVE the Holy Spirit is our teacher who leads us into all truth pointing to SCRIPTURE. The days of the RCC controlling what people were allowed to know and believe are LONG OVER. Praise God.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/17


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James 1: 5 If anyone needs wisdom let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Strongaxe, tell us what you think of these verses. Have you experience the truth of these verses?

Ephesians also says Jesus is made unto us wisdom and knowledge. EVERYTHING we need is IN CHRIST. If you disagree, it might be that you are not in Christ???? Or you have never asked IN FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/17


kathr4453:

All the sages, Rabbis, church fathers, etc. did was to expound on the meaning of scripture. Guess what pastors do when they preach? If you want the pure, unadulterated word of God, free from any influence of man, and you ignore the teachings of sages, Rabbis, and church fathers for that reason, you must therefore also ignore the teachings of pastors for exactly the same reason, and do nothing but read the Bible alone.

However, even that approach goes against scriptural precedent - for what did Paul do? What were his letters about (e.g. Hebrews, Romans, etc.)? They were nothing more than expounding on the meaning of scripture!
---StrongAxe on 3/24/17


John, my pastor does not uses sages/ rabbis or anything BUT scripture...verse by verse. That's how we like it.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/17


Kathr said, "John, if you feel the Bible, the Inspired Word of God cannot give you all you need, and you feel you need to supplement your needs by reading all and every book every man has written, or that you can't seem to be grounded in the Faith unless you read the church fathers, then I do feel sad you cannot find that GROUNDING right in the word of God called the Holy Bible."


Well, then you better stop going to church, listening to your pastor, any BibleTeacher, the sages/ the rabbis...
---john9346 on 3/20/17


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Pardon the typo..the word is "imputed" .

We are justified by His BLOOD and saved BY HIS LIFE. No man has the power to forgive sin, but GOD through Jesus Christ and HIS shed blood. Even the High priests in the OT knew the blood of bulls and goats only COVERING SIN, as God instructed until the Messiah came. They never claimed to forgive sin either.

The Pharisees thought Jesus a blasphemer because He was forgiving sin. Jesus said all power is given me of the Father to forgive sin. This is stated through out the gospels. They wanted to kill Jesus then, stating ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SIN. They wanted to kill Jesus because they thought Jesus was saying HE IS GOD, ....... And HE IS.
---kathr4453 on 2/23/17


Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God,


Actually Nicole, YES only God can forgive sin. No one can IMPURE righteousness to,anyone but God. It's whenYOU have placed your faith in Jesus Christ who died for your sin and rose again for your justification.

Have you been justified Nicole? That is something your church or popes or fathers have no power to do.

If the only thing you know is confession.....and you have never been justified....the Bible..God said you were Lost.

Believe God Nicole, not man or books....believe God.
---kathr4453 on 2/23/17


//John 20:23 says RETAIN, not forgiven.//

All the translations has 'forgiven'.

As usual you give us your OPINION.

//And the original Greek is not forgiven either.//

What is it?

Besides the ORIGINAL language is Aramaic.

//scripture telling us only GOD can forgive sin.//

Give ONE stating ONLY God FORGIVES sins?

I have 3 saying you are wrong: Matthew 6:14, 18:22 and Ephesians 4:32

I could go on but some of us are LIMITED to 125 words.

//Retain...an altogether different issue.//

So is detain but NO ONE is using that word but you.

//All truths come in 2-3 back up scripture.--kathr4453

Like your FAMOUS sinner's prayer?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/22/17


Nicole, John 20:23 says RETAIN, not forgiven. And the original Greek is not forgiven either.

So is that an RCC reinterpretation of this verse, that most folks think God gave the RCC the authority to forgive or not forgive sin? WRONG!

We have hundreds and hundreds of scripture telling us only GOD can forgive sin. Even Peter makes that statement. So even Peter never believed RETAIN meant forgive.

Retain...an altogether different issue.

But if you want to believe it means forgive...then please find at least 2 to 3 supporting witness scripture to know this is what God meant. All truths come in 2-3 back up scripture.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/17


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//what bothers you is scripture exposes the RCC.//

You haven't given ONE SCRIPTURE backing up you FALSE CLAIMS on the Catholic Church.

//You keep making offensive statements against scripture itself,//

IMPOSSIBLE since you gave none

//You are instructed to pray so many Our Father//

BY JESUS HIMSELF. OUR LORD AND SAVIOR!

//so many Hail Mary's according to what level of sin you Have committed,//

LIES, GIVE CCC#

BACK UP YOUR WORDS!

//you confessed to a priest-- Kathr

JOHN 20:23

***"If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven, if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld."

--- Jesus' WORDS Sweetie, not the Catholic Church.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/22/17


Exodus 13:19King James Version (KJV)

19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

Joseph prophecied that God would surely visit Israel while in Egypt and fulfill his promise in taking them to the promise land. After all, it was already prophecied that it would be 400 years from the time God promised this to Abraham. And Joseph WANTED to be buried in the promise land...not Egypt.

If you think that Gives you permission to dig up,and venerate the bones of anyone , Peter or anyone....talk about TWISTING SCRIPTURE? YUCK! How perverted is that?
---kathr4453 on 2/22/17


Just to clarify....pardon the typo.

We pray only to the Father IN HEAVEN through Jesus Christ. If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness...and that is because of the already shed blood. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness. Jesus does not also need our money either to advocate for us regarding sin or anything else. We also,don't need to lite so many candles, or say so many Our Fathers or Hail. Mary's for pentance.

And praying the Lord's Prayer was never said to be prayed as a form of pentance in the first place.
And if one wants to say it does...where is any MONEY stated you have to pay before praying this prayer?
---kathr4453 on 2/22/17


//Interestingly enough, when Moses died, what did God do with Moses bones SO THAT that would not be done with Moses bones?//

You FORGOT about Joseph's bones

EXODUS 13:19

***Moses took the BONES of Joseph with him, for he had made the sons of Israel solemnly swear, saying, "God will surely take care of you, and you shall carry my BONES from here with you."

//We see through scripture how God feels about such things, and again SCRIPTURE EXPOSES//

So WHY DID MOSES TAKE THE BONES OF JOESPH AND BLAME GOD?

//We see no such practice in scripture under the Law or NT church.--kathr4453

It's in Exodus 13:19

READ IT
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/22/17


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Nicole, what bothers you is scripture exposes the RCC. You keep making offensive statements against scripture itself, and by my DEFENDING scripture it exposes the false doctrines of the RCC. Can't be helped. You are instructed to pray so many Our Father and so many Hail Mary's according to what level of sin you Have committed, you confessed to a priest and not man. It's hard not to openly discuss that no such thing is required in SCRIPTURES. That only comes from your ADDED books of man. It's NOT the Gospel. And neither is venerating saints, or kissing the toe of a statue of someone made to look like Peter.

When WE want to say this is not the Gospel, YOU HISS and BITE and SCRATCH those on line who challenge that doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/17


Mike, yes the RCC says they have the bones of Peter, and my understanding is they were on display at one time so all could venerate them.

Interestingly enough, when Moses died, what did God do with Moses bones SO THAT that would not be done with Moses bones?

We see through scripture how God feels about such things, and again SCRIPTURE EXPOSES the horrible heathen practices of the RCC.

There are actually heathen tribes who dig up the bones of their dead year after year, to venerate, and dance around.....

We see no such practice in scripture under the Law or NT church.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/17


//I am sure that some of his body parts could be there//

Who are your talking about?

//as Catholics do venerate the saints--mike4879 on 2/19/17

GOD BLESS MIKE FOR USING THE CORRECT WORD.

Venerate not Worship or Adore which only belongs to God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/21/17


There will be a Kingdom on earth, one where one will have to poke out an eye, or cut off a hand to enter in, if that hand or eye offend.

But the Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the one we have ALREADY been translated into, when we were raised up together with Him, requires no such action. The reason is when we are crucified with Christ, every part of our old man DIED WITH CHRIST.

Paul in Galatains reprimands those who came in teaching the earthly kingdom, he called ANOTHER GOSPEL. So I know based on scripture Paul did not pray the Lord's Prayer....not even once a month.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/17


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//I care that scripture needs two to three witness scriptures to back up.//

That doesn't APPLY to JESUS

Jesus is the WORD. Not Peter or Paul.

You are NOT ALLOWED to cancel Jesus WORD with Peter or Paul's words or non words.

//So SWEETY,// 2nd time. Don't get mad later claiming it's demeaning to your age group.

//let's let God be the judge in the end of what HE CARES ABOUT, NOT YOU. I only care about what the Lord cares about//

Okay Sugar Plum

//we are not of the same faith Nicole..DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
--Kathr4453

Yes, but you seem to believe you are an expert on the Catholic Church.

If I am Catholic you are NOT!

DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOU ARE NOT CATHOLIC THUS NOT AN EXPERT?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/21/17


I know you don't Nicole, you don't care about anything in scripture. You only care about what man has written apart from Scripture and idols and IKONS and Magic color candles , whatever. We know what you do and do not care about. You've made your beliefs LOUD AND CLEAR. However I CARE. And unlike YOU, I care to rightly divide the word of truth. I care that scripture needs two to three witness scriptures to back up.

So SWEETY, let's let God be the judge in the end of what HE CARES ABOUT, NOT YOU. Ok. I only care about what the Lord cares about.

I could care less what YOU think or think is important apart from scripture. we are not of the same faith Nicole..DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
---kathr4453 on 2/21/17


//This prayer was NOT said twice daily by Paul ....I can guarantee that.//

OKAY GUARANTEE IT NOW!

//And Peter makes No mention of saying this prayer or suggesting anyone say it. Not even to ADD to ones faith in 2 Peter 1.---kathr4453 on 2/7/17

WHAT?

I can't believe I missed this one.

Kathr, who is your God: Jesus or Peter?

Who died on the cross for you?

Who has more wisdom Jesus or Peter?

I don't care if Peter never mention it.

I wouldn't have care Peter never wrote an epistle.

I don't care what Peter did, said, wrote or how he prayed.

If Jesus said it, is good enough for me!

Why isn't is a good enough for you?
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/21/17


...He gave an outline on HOW to pray, not WHAT to say.---kathr4453 on 2/7/17.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. And
forgive us our debts,
as we forgive our debtors. And
lead us not into temptation, but
deliver us from evil: For
thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.

Amen.
---aservant on 2/21/17


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I am sure that some of his body parts could be there as Catholics do venerate the saints.
---mike4879 on 2/19/17


//Much like saying Peter was in Rome, which he wasn't.//

How do you know Peter was NEVER in ROME?

//The church fathers wrote about men,//

They wrote about Jesus. Cite a Church Father talking about men and NOT JESUS? ONE?

Church Fathers are men who lived within the next 5 centuries after Biblical documented men.

//says the apostles prayed the Lord's Prayer 3 times a day..//

Is there SOMETHING WRONG with praying the Lord's Prayer 3 times a day?

Does Kathr have a CAP LIMIT on how many times one can pray the Lord's Prayer?

//when I hear stuff like that, I have no interest in ever wanting to read that stuff.---kathr

God forbid the Apostles prayed the Lord's Prayer more than once a day.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/18/17


John, if you feel the Bible, the Inspired Word of God cannot give you all you need, and you feel you need to supplement your needs by reading all and every book every man has written, or that you can't seem to be grounded in the Faith unless you read the church fathers, then I do feel sad you cannot find that GROUNDING right in the word of God called the Holy Bible.

But I would like to tell others around the world, who feel they might be missing something without these books.....FOLKS YOU ARE NOT.

The Lord will supply ALL YOUR NEEDS, according to the Riches that are in Christ Jesus....not in the works of man.

John must be needy, but he still with all his reading may be lacking, looking in all the wrong places.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/17


John, I'll take David's word for it. I know many writings were to grease the way for the RCC. Much like saying Peter was in Rome, which he wasn't. And again, these were men like you and me ...individuals growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. They were not chosen by Jesus to be apostles. Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is about Jesus. The church fathers wrote about men, put their spin on traditions, and says the apostles prayed the Lord's Prayer 3 times a day....did they also say they bowed to Mecca when they prayed? I don't have to read the church fathers to KNOW it does not apply to the Church. And when I hear stuff like that, I have no interest in ever wanting to read that stuff.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/17


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David, the Didache existed long before the rcc

Kathr remember you have never read the church fathers based on your own confession so you wouldn't know what the Didache is and what it teaches.


So everyone knows theDidache is a document of History of the church.
---john9346 on 2/16/17


Calvinists do in fact read and recite the Lord's Prayer.

I'd invite all please read the London Baptist Confession of 1689 to know what really and truly believe lol
---johnic46 on 2/16/17


Singing from hymnal is communal and all need to sing same words and tune. Praying is personal, our own words to God and time to listen also.
---andreea on 2/9/17


Never heard of the Didache until reading this blog. Just read it and I agree with Steven. It starts off okay, but then it's appears someone from the Catholic Church penned it, merely to provide evidence for their teachings.

The Protestant church does the same thing, rewriting the Bible many times over, until they come up with a version that matches their teachings.
Maybe that's why we were told to follow Gods Holy Spirit, a source we can trust?
---David on 2/8/17


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Many hymns, as many written prayers, are simply religious words. Some popular songwriters were covenantal, overly spiritual, confused Israel with the church, or taught a variety of kingdom doctrine. Unacceptable from the pulpit, and should be rejected from hymnals.
Paul says singing ought to teach and admonish the word of Christ. It is more honorable to sing old hymns out of tune with right doctrine, than to sing world class modern worship music filled with emotional pablum.
It's obvious Jesus never actually prayed the "lords prayer repeated by millions (though Jesus instructed them not to pray using vain repetitions- Matt 6:7). If he did pray it he would have been a sinner, as is everyone else that prays it. (Luke 11:4)
---michael_e on 2/7/17


John 16:23 assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.

24. Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full."


The Lord's Prayer was before Jesus went to the cross. After Jesus rose from the dead, Christians 1) pray in Jesus name, not mentioned in Matthew and Luke, 2) our sins are not forgiven on a condition of us forgiving others under the NC,
3) we as saved Christians HAVE been delivered from the evil one.

This prayer was NOT said twice daily by Paul ....I can guarantee that. And Peter makes No mention of saying this prayer or suggesting anyone say it. Not even to ADD to ones faith in 2 Peter 1.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/17


So, Niclole, when you want to pray to heal someone you recite, from memory, the "Our Father" once.

When you want to pray for understanding a verse in the bible, you recite the "Our Father" twice and Hail Mary once.

When you want to pray because you are angry or disappointed, you recite the "Our Father" three times and Hail Mary twice.

When you want to pray because you are emotionally or physically ill, you recite the "Our Father" four times and Hail Mary three.

When you want to pray because you are thankful, you recite the "Our Father" five times and Hail Mary four.
---Steveng on 2/7/17


This is what I do find so confusing about John. To push off the Lords Prayer, where even Calvinists KNOW is not Calvinism, makes me wonder if John really has all his ducks in a row. When I attended a Calvinist Church years ago we studied why Calvinists do not pray this prayer. Now I'm not a Calvinist, but on that one I give them 100% accuracy on why.

I posted the WHY's in the 1,2, and 3. This view is also held by many grounded Christian churches not Calvinist.

All scripture is truth, however not all scripture applies to Christians today. For example..the Sabbath. The Curses under the Law of Moses, just a couple here.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/17


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Obviously if the Apostles prayed 'Our Father' and taught the prayer to other Christians it is meant to be prayed today.
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/7/17

This is the problem too of exalting the so called church fathers. There is no scripture to back up this statement. Someone can quote anyone saying the Apostles this or that, prayed standing on their head, whatever, but if there are no scriptures to back that up, it holds no weight. If it were as important as communion, it would be noted in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/17


I don't see any scripture saying all the apostles prayed this, or stated we should pray this over and over. Jesus never said we should memorize and pray this...He gave an outline on HOW to pray, not WHAT to say. This prayer also is not to the church, but to the. Earthly kingdom that will be on earth as in heaven, the 1000 year reign. Jesus said regarding the Church, MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. We have been translated out of this present evil world into the Kingdom of His dear Son. Paul said we are crucified to the world and the world to us.

Know your KINGDOMS folks. Judas didn't and betrayed Jesus. Don't make his mistake.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/17


//The Didache an not an epistle. It's just a list of items that the apostles taught and applied.//

So you agree with John.

Obviously if the Apostles prayed 'Our Father' and taught the prayer to other Christians it is meant to be prayed today.

//But one can tell this is from the catholic or orthodox church--Steveng

Because the Church is CATHOLIC
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/7/17


john9346,

The Didache an not an epistle. It's just a list of items that the apostles taught and applied. But one can tell this is from the catholic or orthodox church because some of the items in "chapters" 7,8,9, 11, 12, 13, 14 are not biblical.

Test those items. Study the bible (NT) and apply each item to scripture.
---Steveng on 2/6/17


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Most people repeat prayers in vain expecting different results like praying the Lord's prayer (which is set as an example on HOW to pray not to keep repeating it). Most people pray prayers that are vague like asking for peace in the world.
---Steveng on 2/4/17







The Didache an epistle of the Early Church tells us that the apostles prayed the Lord's Prayer (Our Father) twice aday.

If it was good enough for the apostles, then its sure good enough for all Christians...
---john9346 on 2/5/17


"Grant, Almighty God, that, since to a perverse, and in every way a rebellious people, thou didst formerly show so much grace, as to exhort them continually to repentance, and to stretch forth thy hand to them by thy Prophets, O grant, that the same word may sound in our ears, and when we do not immediately profit by thy teaching, O cast us not away, but, by thy Spirit, so subdue all our thoughts and affections, that we, being humbled, may give glory to thy majesty,

prayer by john Calvin
---john9346 on 2/5/17


There is no difference between singing hymns and praying from a book. Both use the mind.

Real prayer is simply communicating with God from the heart like you would a very close friend. You talk about things that are important to you - healing of a friend, for instance. The bible is full of examples of prayers. They are not all the same.

Most people repeat prayers in vain expecting different results like praying the Lord's prayer (which is set as an example on HOW to pray not to keep repeating it). Most people pray prayers that are vague like asking for peace in the world.

Asking God for help in a certain matter comes from the heart and must be made specifically.
---Steveng on 2/4/17


What is the difference between singing from a hymnal and praying from a book?
---Cluny on 2/2/17

I hope this question means that you are on the mend and doing better physically. You are missed.

My church does not use hymnals but I do listen (and sing) to worship music at home and in the car.

I also have several books of prayers that I use daily. One is from the author of "the power of a praying husband" and is specifically prayers for my wife. A second book is a book of prayers "for men by men". It was this book that got me thinking about my behavior within these blogs.

I think anything that "keeps your mind stayed on God" is a good thing and can be used by God.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/3/17


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All those who sing from a hymnal pray from the same book.
---mike4879 on 2/3/17


"Lord Jesus Christ The Son of God have mercy on me a sinner."
(An Ancient Prayer)
---john9346 on 2/3/17


The person who takes baptism must discard wrong religion and worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit till the end of days. Rejecting own preference, bear the cross and follow Jesus Christ. I/we promise to try and put into effect all the principles a believer should follow. Grant upon me/us the Holy Spirit so that I/we do not break my/our promise and abide with the principles all the days of my/our life/lives. I/we reverently pray that when I/we pass away from this world let me/us be at thy foot together with the saints enjoying the never-ending heavenly riches, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.[1]
---john9346 on 2/3/17


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