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Can God Be Sovereign

How can God be sovereign and man have free will? Does God really work all things after the counsel of His own will?

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 ---Trey on 5/3/17
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I notice John attributed my responses to Joseph on 5/20.

Because of limited space: 2 Cor 5:14,14,19
"...that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again"

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them,"

also,
2 Pet 3:9 He is not willing that any should perish
---chria9396 on 6/1/17


Samuel, John 16:8 where it states the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, here convicts has two meanings, the first, is the judicial act of conviction with a view in sentencing, which is a court room term, conviction of sin. and the Second meaning is, the act of convincing and it is the idea best since the purpose of the Holy Spirit is not condemnation but conviction of the need for the Savior.
The Holy Spirit convicts whomever it wants to convict concerning sin, in order to bring them to faith. For not all come to faith. Faith is granted to only some sinners, not all sinners.
Philippians 1:29: "For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in Him but also suffer for His sake"
---Luke on 5/31/17


samuel states, "One of two things happen. They come to life and repent. Or they choose death and will die the second death.

Sir, do you agree with, "Scripture." when it teaches that sinners are dead?
---john9346 on 5/29/17


When the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner who is dead in his sins.

One of two things happen. They come to life and repent. Or they choose death and will die the second death. GOD gives them that choice by convicting the whole world.

Nkjv John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/29/17


samuel states,"No the dead cannot do those things."

Sir, appreciate your honesty in handling "Scripture."

Samuel states, "But the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin."

Yes, but if the Holy Spirit convicts a "Dead Sinner." of sin is that sinner still dead or alive?
---john9346 on 5/26/17




Sammuelbb7, you said the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin. NOt just some people

Jesus tells us what sin the world is convicted of.
John 16:8,9
when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they BELIEVE NOT ON ME


Its the sin of UNBELIEF in Jesus the world is convicted of. Hence only some people (unbelievers) will be convicted of sin.

Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36. & 8:23). Christians have overcome the world.
How?
1John 5:5
For whatever is born of God (see 1John 5:1) overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith.

---Haz27 on 5/26/17


No the dead cannot do those things.

But the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin. NOt just some people.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/26/17


samuel states, "The elect are whosoever will follow GOD and love Him and love others."

Samuel, can a dead person follow you to the Grocery Store? Can a Dead Person love you?

Samuel, can a Dead Person who is dead choose to come to your house for dinner??
---john9346 on 5/26/17


The elect are whosoever will follow GOD and love Him and love others.

I believe in free will. GOD gave us the right to choose. It is the fault of the individual if they go to hell.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/25/17


strongaxe states, "Here is the biggest problem with election. It directly contradicts free will."

1. This is a failure to understand sinners have free will but their wills are only free to choose sin see Jn 8:34.

2. Sinners are dead in their sins they hate God and do not love him see Rom 3:10-19, and 8:7-8 Eph 2:1-9.

3. Preaching the gospel is the Elect's Responsibility in obedience to the Lord see Matt 28:18-19.

4. Who the "Elect." are is none of our business... see, Deut 29:29 Isa 40:13-14.

5. Paul addressed your objections in Rom 9:9-23 please read this sir...
---john9346 on 5/24/17




Strongaxe, you say,
"Preaching the Gospel is useless, because God has ALREADY decided beforehand who will be saved."
---john9346 on 5/24/17


God has decided who will be save and who will not be saved. Yet we still have to preach the Gospel because the only way the elect will come to Christ is through faith that comes through the word of God, the Gospel of our salvation. And you have the right to make choices in life everyday. So you are not a puppet. You decided what you were going to eat yesterday, what you were going to wear, and where you were going, yet election is still up to God. You were very much responsible for your sins. God did not make you sin. You cannot stop from sinning. you made those decisions.

---Luke on 12/20/16




---john9346 on 5/24/17


In citing Rom 3 Joseph didn't continue to read what the Holy Spirit had Paul to put in writing:

Paul defines in verses 10-17 the state of sinnders here is how ie opens:

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable, there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
---john9346 on 5/23/17


micha9344 said, "I don't know why people that don't believe in freewill argue."

Micha, just saying, "Freewill." covers a vast category. In other words, its very general.

If you have been reading this post, you would know that Joseph and I have been dialogging not on whether sinners has free will, but to what extent does sinners have that free will...
---john9346 on 5/23/17


To recap:

1. We have learn from the "Scriptures." that sinners have "Natural-free Will Liberty."

2. We have learned from the "Scriptures." that sinners are deadand do not possess "Spiritual-free Will Liberty."

3. We have seen from the "Scriptures." that sinners in their Deprave State may attempt to exercise prayer and other acts, but its all useless and will not save them...

4. We have learned from the "Scriptures." that unless God elects by his grace to save some they will perish in his wrath of Eternal Hell forever...
---john9346 on 5/23/17


Joseph ask, "Where has John, in any of his letters, taught against choice?"

Sir, can you be specific in your question?

Are you asking where John The Apostle taught that sinners are dead?

Remember, Mankind is dead to "Spiritual-free will Liberty." not, "Natural-free will Liberity."

So which are you asking my friend?
---john9346 on 5/23/17


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I don't know why people that don't believe in freewill argue.
It must be God's will for the others to believe the way they do, so why argue against God?
---micha9344 on 5/23/17


"But not according to John The Apostle"---john9346
Where has John, in any of his letters, taught against choice?
---Josef on 5/23/17


John any way you define it, it represents a choice.
---Josef on 5/21/17

But not according to John The Apostle because what he wrote is what's important...

Also, the same with Luke in 18:9-14 where he isn't even addressing the matter of sinners choosing or rejecting God...
---john9346 on 5/22/17


If sinners can choose to reject God, then they are not "Dead.", but alive.
This is contradictory because the writers of the NT Scriptures proclaimed repeatedly sinners are dead and unless God chooses to show them mercy they will perish in Eternal Hell.
---john9346 on 5/22/17


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"Not sure if you are aware words without context mean absolutely nothing. John that statement makes absolutely no sense to me.
So, when we read Jn 1:1-12 with the meaning of Lambono this is the meaning, "to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self, to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own. John any way you define it, it represents a choice.
---Josef on 5/21/17


Joseph my friend:

The Greek Word, "Lambano." has more meaning then what you have cited here.

So, when this is so we must look at the full context of what John is saying along with the meaning. Not sure if you are aware words without context mean absolutely nothing.

So, when we read Jn 1:1-12 with the meaning of Lambono this is the meaning, "to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self, to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own.

This is exactly John The Apostle's Point in vs 11 before vs 12.

John using Lambano when understood in context is not even addressing "Freewill."
---john9346 on 5/20/17


Joseph: "John, it was in the tax collectors will to pray, no one force him?"

Once again in Lk 18:9-14 reading where is Luke writing by the Holy Spirit defending "Freewill?"

Sir, I'd invite you to read Rom 3 entire chapter and get back to me where it is teaching, "Dead Sinners can make choices."

The Holy Spirit had Paul say then just write Rom 3:3 did you continue reading vs 10-13?
---john9346 on 5/20/17


Joseph states, "Yes, and that explains why He was rejected by them, and it was their choice to do so,"

But sir, did you not read vs 14-16?? long before 26?
---john9346 on 5/20/17


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When those who believe that sinners who are dead can choose to worship God, they automatically run to the "Whosoever." Verses.

There is 1 question they fail to ask, "Who are the (whosoever)."??

Are the whosoever, sinners who are not save?
Are the whosoever, sinners all ready in Hell right now?

If the answer to my questions is yes, then the Lord Jesus didn't die for them because the Holy Spirit had Matthew state, "21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Pay attention to the words, "for he shall save his people from their sins."

this is a "Definite." not a "Maybe."
---john9346 on 5/20/17


This line should read "The word received, as used in Jhn 1:12, is translated from the Greek word lambano," Please feel free to look it John.
" Romans 3:3 is discussing Jews and Gentiles being obedient to the Mosaic Law.." Rom 3:3 Is clear as stated, it needs no interpretation. John what you've written is simply an unwarranted attempt to explain away it's clear meaning. And this coming from one who claims to "allow the authors of "Holy Scripture." to tell me what they meant by what they wrote I don't tell them what I want them to have written.":o)
---Josef on 5/20/17


John, it was in the tax collectors will to pray, no one force him.
The word received is translated from the Greek word lambano, a verb that means, according to the Strong's, "take, claim, procure for one's self, to associate, to choose, select, ect. No where within the definition is the word 'understand/comprehend' where did that come from.
"26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."
Yes, and that explains why He was rejected by them, and it was their choice to do so, influence by their father, the Devil. Jesus died for whosoever would receive Him. Whosoever 'believes', adheres to , relies on, and trust, in Him, will not perish nor be plucked out of His Hands.
---Josef on 5/20/17


Joseph states, "John the tax collector was a sinner when he prayed, and the "context" doesn't suggest other wise. He went home justified after he prayed."

But sir in light of the context where is the Holy Spirit having Luke to defend "Freewill?"
---john9346 on 5/20/17


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Joseph states, ""to as many as received Him, indicating choice,"

Sir, the word, "Receive." in this text means to understand/comprehend (An ability to process knowledge.", choice is irrelevant.

Joseph states, "Although the Father had given them to believe and drawn them, it was and act of their will to receive Him,"

But the Lord Jesus said, "44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Jn 6:44

If someone is dead, they cant cometo a Birthday Party no matter how many times they are invited...
---john9346 on 5/20/17


Joseph ask, "Why do you believe this would indicate failure? As sovereign, is God able to allow choice in what one believes concerning Truth?"

Sir, the Lord jesus answers your question, "14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine."

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joseph sir, the Lord Jesus died for a Particular Group of People everyone doesn't belong to him...
---john9346 on 5/20/17


We know from the context the Holy Spirit instructed Matthew to write "Their Sins." so people wouldn't think only Israel.

With that being known is everyone save no. Are there people in Hell right now yes.

So, to take this position to its Logical Conclusion the Lord Jesus fail because all are not save and there are people in Hell which means The Lord Jesus didn't save his people from "Their Sins." and not all belong to God.

Romans 3:3 is discussing Jews and Gentiles being obedient to the Mosaic Law nothing about freewill in this context.
---john9346 on 5/20/17


Correction: "Concerning John 9:31 although I'm sure that the blind man who was healed believed what he had no doubt been taught by the Pharisees."
---Josef on 5/19/17


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John:You asked me a similar question: "If the Lord Jesus Christ died for every singgle person, then every singgle person would be save...

If the Lord Jesus died to save everybody and some go to hell then he would be a failure..."

Why do you believe this would indicate failure? As sovereign, is God able to allow choice in what one believes concerning Truth?

Rom 3:3"what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?"
Concerning "His people" used sometimes for Israel exclusively, but also mankind, as all belong to the LORD
---chria9396 on 5/19/17


Concerning John 9:31 although I'm sure that the lame man who was healed believed what he had no doubt been taught by the Pharisees. If God did not hear sinners, none of us would be saved. For we were all sinners when we received Christ. For it is written "to as many as received Him, indicating choice, to them he gave the power to become Sons of God. To those who believed on His name". Although the Father had given them to believe and drawn them, it was and act of their will to receive Him, to confess their sin, and acknowledge Him as Lord, and that will was influenced of Him, "for no man calls Jesus lord except by the Holy Spirit"
---Josef on 5/18/17


John the tax collector was a sinner when he prayed, and the "context" doesn't suggest other wise. He went home justified after he prayed.
"Sir, here is the full context of what I said listen very closely:"
Your attempt to be condescending aside, how does any of what you have written here, change what was written earlier? As far as I can see, what you've said is clear, and what I've said in response should be equally clear.
---Josef on 5/18/17


Joseph ask, "John who do you think this message is for?"

Sir, the Holy Spirit had John answer your question vs 16, "16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

This message is for the churches.
---john9346 on 5/17/17


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Joseph states, "Jesus said If He be lifted up from the earth, and He was, He would draw all men to Himself."

But sir did you continue reading what the Lord Jesus said:

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Also, see John 6:37-39, 44-45, 64-65.
---john9346 on 5/17/17


Joseph states, "
a choice and the choice is representative of the influence one yields themselves to, and the will of the influencer is manifest. As I stated in my first post to this blog a man's choices "will reflect the Fathers will for him". For the Father is sovereign."

But Sir "Scripture." states unequivocally that sinners are Dead in their sins and sir as you all ready agreed with me dead people cant choose.


Eph ch 2:

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins,"

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)
---john9346 on 5/17/17


If the Lord Jesus Christ died for every singgle person, then every singgle person would be save...

If the Lord Jesus died to save everybody and some go to hell then he would be a failure...

The Holy Spirit instructed Matthew to pen these words, "

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Notice the words, "for he shall save his people from their sins."

Is the whole world, "His People??"
---john9346 on 5/17/17


Joseph states, "John you yourself wrote that the parable "was an example of spiritual liberties" and that the Pharisee represented sinners."


Sir, here is the full context of what I said listen very closely:


Sir, the Tax Collector represent (saints) and the pharisee represents (sinners)

Yes, sinners in their dead state can pray, but it "Empty Words." see, Jer 17:9 Jn 9:31...

In the parable, one walked away saved and the other not, "Tax Collector went home justified."

The pharisee didn't...

---john9346 on 5/17/17


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Joseph ask, "Why would Luke or any other writer have to defend the obvious?"


Sir, if you think prayer is an example of "Spiritual-free Will Liberty." then you must haven't read John 9:31??

Luke is addressing prayer and free will isn't his point...
---john9346 on 5/17/17


John who do you think this message is for? "The Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let him who hears say, Come! And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." Jesus said If He be lifted up from the earth, and He was, He would draw all men to Himself. Those who will not come has obviously made the choice not to, because all men are invited, and according to Jesus, all men are drawn. To come, or refuse represents a choice and the choice is representative of the influence one yields themselves to, and the will of the influencer is manifest. As I stated in my first post to this blog a man's choices "will reflect the Fathers will for him". For the Father is sovereign.
---Josef on 5/17/17


Joseph said, "Obviously since I can't bring him to life, my asking him anything would be pointless. However The Father can, and that was my point on."

absolutely, sinners are dead and cant of themselves choose to reject or accept God, they are dead in their sins and unless God chooses to show them his grace they will be loss...

---john9346 on 5/12/17




---john9346 on 5/16/17


John you yourself wrote that the parable "was an example of spiritual liberties" and that the Pharisee represented sinners."In lk 18:9-14, where is the Holy Spirit having Luke to defend, "It is man's choice, and within his power of will to pray."?" Why would Luke or any other writer have to defend the obvious? According to Jesus even the hypocrites prays, do you think prayer is spiritual or natural?
---Josef on 5/16/17


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Hello brother Trey, God is Sovereign so God really works all things after the counsel of His own will. The human will is never free. When lost the human will is slave to sin. When the person is made alive by the Spirit he is now a slave to Christ. He might not always do what is right, but he is been change by the Spirit each day. When we were lost and slaves to sin, we were bought with a prize.
---Luke on 5/16/17


Joseph states, "John it was you who wrote on 5/10 "sinners are dead and dead people cant make choices"

Absolutely sir, and if you continue reading we discussed the distinctions of "Natural-free will Liberties." and "Spiritual-free will Liberties."

I clarified to you the Distinct Difference, they are not the same. Do you remember this, "
The Natural Free-will Liberties would be example, what to eat, what to wear, where to live, what college to go to, what type of car to drive, etc..."

and these are not Luke's Point...They are not the same thing my friend...
---john9346 on 5/16/17


Joseph states, "Whether that was the point or not, what happens in the parable concerning the prayers, happens. It is man's choice, and within his power of will to pray."

Sir, In lk 18:9-14, where is the Holy Spirit having Luke to defend, "It is man's choice, and within his power of will to pray."?
---john9346 on 5/16/17


"In this context the matter free will isn't Luke's Point or purpose for writing he starts by stating that in vs 9..." Whether that was the point or not, what happens in the parable concerning the prayers, happens. It is man's choice, and within his power of will to pray. And I never said that will was free.
---Josef on 5/15/17


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John it was you who wrote on 5/10 "sinners are dead and dead people cant make choices" and it was written in response to something I that I had written. My posts from then forward were simply to address that error, to answer your questions to me, or to respond to your statements. They were not to argue for or against "free will", I made my position concerning that clear with my first post.
---Josef on 5/15/17


joseph ask, "Again, what does that have to do with the truth that is being conveyed?"

1. Because did the author mean for what he wrote to become a prescribe methodology.

2. Descriptive means to convey an example for conveying truth.

3. In Lk 18:9-14 the Holy Spirit instructed Luke to tell us his example and point.

4. In this context the matter free will isn't Luke's Point or purpose for writing he starts by stating that in vs 9...

5. I allow the authors of "Holy Scripture." to tell me what they meant by what they wrote I don't tell them what I want them to have written...
---john9346 on 5/15/17


"Because parables are, "Descriptive." and not "Prescriptive."" Again, what does that have to do with the truth that is being conveyed?
"Again, please be more specific according to the context i did provide a response read prior." Never mind John:oD)))
---Josef on 5/13/17


Joseph ask, "John then you do believe a sinner, and the tax collector acknowledged himself a sinner, can by choice, or of his own will, pray a spiritual prayer, by his own "Spiritual-free will Liberty?"

Sir, the Tax Collector represent (saints) and the pharisee represents (sinners)

Yes, sinners in their dead state can pray, but it "Empty Words." see, Jer 17:9 Jn 9:31...

In the parable, one walked away saved and the other not, "Tax Collector went home justified."

The pharisee didn't...
---john9346 on 5/13/17


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Joseph ask, "John what does this being a parable have to do with the truth being conveyed?"

Because parables are, "Descriptive." and not "Prescriptive."

Joseph ask, ""Whose will do you think was on display in this illustration?"

Again, please be more specific according to the context i did provide a response read prior.
---john9346 on 5/13/17


John the question you quoted has nothing to do with the question I asked earlier. That question stands as written, "Whose will do you think was on display in this illustration?" Or parable if you prefer. Again, what about the question is unclear? "Please remember this is a parable" John what does this being a parable have to do with the truth being conveyed? You say "The Tax Collector is a saint chosen by grace." I say nothing in the parable suggest that he was anything but what he said himself to be when he prayed. It is simply written that he went home justified. Why? Because he understood himself a sinner and humbled himself as such before the Father.
---Josef on 5/13/17


"This was an example of "Spiritual-free Will Liberty." John then you do believe a sinner, and the tax collector acknowledged himself a sinner, can by choice, or of his own will, pray a spiritual prayer, by his own "Spiritual-free will Liberty":o) Or have I misunderstood your response.
---Josef on 5/13/17


Do you really think "God" influenced the self centered, self righteous, arrogant prayer of the PharIsee. A prayer He was apparently not pleased with?
---Josef on 5/12/17

Sir, first, thanks for being more specific to your question I do appreciate it...

The parable you cited in Lk 18:9-14 is an example of a sinner and a saint.

The Tax Collector is a saint chosen by grace.

The pharisee is a sinner left in his sins for reprobation.

God has ordained by his providence both these men and their actions, but please remember this is a parable.
---john9346 on 5/13/17


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"Whose will do you think was on display in this illustration John?" What exactly is unclear about this question John? You've read my response, what yours? Do you really think "God" influenced the self centered, self righteous, arrogant prayer of the PharIsee. A prayer He was apparently not pleased with?
---Josef on 5/12/17


Joseph:

"Whose will do you think was on display in this illustration John?"

Not sure what your asking? please be more specific in this question.

"Was it spiritual or natural?"

This was an example of "Spiritual-free Will Liberty."

"Who do think that will was influenced by?"

God of course...
---john9346 on 5/12/17


"Does God really work all things after the counsel of His own will?"

This is a very good question we know from "Scripture." there are 2-wills in God, "Revealed Will." and "Secret Will." God's Secret-will of Decree is always accomplished nothing or no one can ever stop it...

God's Revealed Will is his written will the "Scriptures."

God's Secret Will see, Deut 29:29, ps 33:9-11, Ps 115:3, Ps 135:6
---john9346 on 5/12/17


Whose will do you think was on display in this illustration John? Was it spiritual or natural? Who do think that will was influenced by? "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank You that I am not like other men...I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me a sinner! The tax collector acknowledged himself a sinner, and the Pharisee thought himself a saint. My thoughts, man's will to pray was on display, and the motivating influence of that will and prayer, to me, is obvious.
---Josef on 5/12/17


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Joseph said, "Obviously since I can't bring him to life, my asking him anything would be pointless. However The Father can, and that was my point on."

absolutely, sinners are dead and cant of themselves choose to reject or accept God, they are dead in their sins and unless God chooses to show them his grace they will be loss...
---john9346 on 5/12/17


Joseph states, "John the statement referenced in my post addresses"Natural Liberties", and so does my question."

No sir, you stated, "Man will either subject his will to the Father or Satan." "A mans will is reflected by his choices,"

Sir, this is "Spiritual Liberties."

The Natural Free-will Liberties would be example, what to eat, what to wear, where to live, what college to go to, what type of car to drive, etc...
---john9346 on 5/12/17


"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation, so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto."

LBC 1689 par 3
---john9346 on 5/4/17





---john9346 on 5/12/17


"So, sir, are you saying you would talk to a dead man? If I brought a dead man and sat him in front of you, would you ask him if he wants pizza or Chinese Food for dinner?"---john9346 on 5/11/17"
Obviously since I can't bring him to life, my asking him anything would be pointless. However The Father can, and that was my point on 5/11.
"To answer your question yes because the "Confession of Faith." recognizes and expounds on the distinction between "Natural Liberties." and "Spiritual Liberties." John the statement referenced in my post addresses"Natural Liberties", and so does my question.
---Josef on 5/12/17


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Joseph said, "John all men were once dead in sins, for all have sinned."

Joseph, Exactly sir, sinners are dead people.

Now can dead people make choices??

So, sir, are you saying you would talk to a dead man??

Why would you ask a dead man what he wants for dinner??

Keep in mind the question,"If I brought a dead man and sat him in front of you, would you ask him if he wants pizza or Chinese Food for dinner?"
---john9346 on 5/11/17


Joseph,

To answer your question yes because the "Confession of Faith." recognizes and expounds on the distinction between "Natural Liberties." and "Spiritual Liberties."
---john9346 on 5/11/17


John all men were once dead in sins, for all have sinned. Yet,while we were dead in sins, Father quickened us together with Christ. Who bore our sin, so that we, the believer, now being dead to sin, should live into righteousness. To answer your question, If it was within my power to give that dead man life, yes. If he indicated that he was hungry, why not:o) John you posted "God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil." Do you believe that or not?
---Josef on 5/11/17


It is written "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve, But one thing is needful: and Mary has chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."
---Josef on 5/10/17

Joseph,

Sir, Deut 30 and Josh 24 were written to a people who God had all ready pick/selected... as well as Marywho had all ready been elected... see Deut 7:6-8...
---john9346 on 5/11/17


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Joseph,

Can I ask you a question.

If I brought a dead man and sat him in front of you, would you ask him if he wants pizza or Chinese Food for dinner?

If you answer no, why would you answer no?
---john9346 on 5/11/17


"sinners are dead and dead people cant make choices..." John

It is written "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve, But one thing is needful: and Mary has chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her."
---Josef on 5/10/17


joseph states, "Yes. However that does not negate the will of man, although that will can not be considered free."

Joseph, if the will of man cant be considered free, then man doesn't have free will,furthermore, sinners are dead and dead people cant make choices...

See, Eph 2:1-9, Rom 3:10-18, Jn 3:36.
---john9346 on 5/10/17


"Does God really work all things after the counsel of His own will?" Yes. However that does not negate the will of man, although that will can not be considered free. Man will either subject his will to the Father or Satan. For "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that ones slaves whom you obey." If you choose to yield to Satan, he becomes your foundation, and as Jesus said, in that case, "You are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father you will do." The same applies to the Father. A mans will is reflected by his choices, and his choices will reflects the Fathers will for him, for He gives to everyone according to his ways, and the fruit of his doings.
---Josef on 5/10/17


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Man has free will because God is sovereign.
Man did not get free will on his own.
Man's free will does not negate God's knowledge, rather, it accomplishes God's plan and purpose.
Comparing man's will vs. God's will is like comparing a bicycle to a hover jet.
Man, even with free will, can only do so much.
He cannot save himself from death.
He must be saved.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
---micha9344 on 5/6/17


"God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil."

LBC 1689 Par 1


---john9346 on 5/4/17


"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation, so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto."

LBC 1689 par 3
---john9346 on 5/4/17


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