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Continuing, finish it here June 2017

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 ---john9346 on 6/16/17
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John, like I said, you don't listen to others. The exact words "Sola S" was not coined until the reformation. The concept is clearly stated in scripture that I posted. Your rantings show You do not either believe in Sola S yourself, OR you think Sola S INCLUDE Augustine Calvin, Calvinism, etc, which suggests here YOUR understanding of Sola S include Mans interpretation of Scripture. THEREFORE I DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR DEFINITION OF SOLA S. DO YOU GET IT NOW JOHN? Probably not. As far as I'm concerned this debate is OVER.
---kathr4453 on 7/6/17


Haz, let's be more realistic here. There was no such thing as the left or right during the time of the Apostles, YET there has always been those who oppose the Gospel. Yes and if we want to label them left and right...the Right would be the Pharisees.....religious, but just as lost as the opposing side.....Heathans.

THAT is what you can't understand.Trump is NOT a Chriatian HAZ. Oh and do t start with....No one has a right to judge. Trumps own words, saying he has never repented, and sees no reason to...along with his CRUDE behavior will validate that fact. And where is it our job to openly HATE the HEATHAN? WE are not. And YOUR WAY in no way is a testimony to the lost.

Being RIGHT doesn't mean one is RIGHT HAZ.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/17


Kathr:

1. Through outt this dialog you have demonstrated you do not understand, "Sola Scriptura."

2. You fail to address the Greek Word, "Kosmos." meaning world which doesn't always mean every singgle person.

3. You tried to state that, "Sola Scriptura." wasn't a doctrine until the reformation, but I cited 3 Church Fathers who witness against you.

4. You cant state your rejection of the Jewish Sages who held traditions like the Church Fathers.

Kathr, Ma'am, this is hypocrisy...
---john9346 on 7/3/17


Kathr, Ma'am, this is hypocrisy...
kathr ask, "Why do you need Augustine etc."
Ma'am, remember, you stated no one believe the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura before the reformation and Augustine was one of many who witness against you...
---john9346 on 7/3/17


Kathr said, "Now we know Augustine was a Gnostic, who actually co-mingled much of his beliefs with that of Gnosticism. Calvin believed in infant baptism....NOT IN SCRIPTURE."

And tell us is everything in the talmud "Scripture?"

Do you run from the talmud as well?
---john9346 on 7/3/17




Kathr. I dont know some of these conservatives, Leftists here refer to. I don't see Fox, except occasional YouTube of Hannity or Carlson. Conservatives complain of Leftist's in Fox, so clearly Fox has mix from both sides. We see same in Aust where an alleged conservative news outlet has many Leftists.

The FACT remains Left dominate mainstream media, & universities, institutions, etc, thus dominate public debate. Remember only 7% of journalists identify as REPs.

Leftists clearly do not want FAIR, BALANCED public debate. They only want their corrupt Leftist high priests controlling debate.
Leftists, like their anti Christ Islamist allies, deceitfully describe any opposition to their harmful agenda, as hate.
---Haz27 on 7/3/17


NURSE. Only 7% of journalists in US identify as REP. Hence why Leftist Tammy Bruce exposed Left's control of public debate.
It's clear from your unfounded allegations against conservative journalists that you loathe fair, balanced public debate as it threatens the power your Leftist high priests hold.
You know the old saying, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Need look no further than Left's Fake News media and DEMs.

KATHR. The only thing I agree with you on is the need to preach gospel, which the Christian hating Left opposes. The biggest haters are the Left & Islamists. Daring to oppose them really gets them rabid. Delusional Leftists even see any criticism of their evil, as hate.
---Haz27 on 7/3/17


AXE. Those bakers said they would bake other types of cakes for those LGBT customers, but as they did not support LGBT marriage they did not want to be involved in such a marriage.
And just like a Leftist SJW you jump on these bakers and say they CONDEMNED non Christians.

Have you, as a Christian, ever refused to be involved in any request that goes against God's principles? Or do you just go along with it, helping out with something you know is wrong?

Regarding my question that you questioned, did you note it was a question?
You defend the Left's oppressive PC tyranny so much that I'm starting to wonder if you're in one of those churches that think LGBT lifestyles are virtuous, hence my QUESTION.



---Haz27 on 7/3/17


BTW, Brietbart, Hannity I see occasionally, and they are honest sources, ...

---Haz27 on 7/2/17

What a joke.. Breitbart is full of half truths, innuendos and out right lies. Hannity is nothing but a spokesman for the right wingers. Fox even dropped it's "fair and balanced" . Fox is the right wing media arm of Trump and the right wingers. A fox affiliate even argued in court they have a right to lie to their viewers.. Honest?? Yeah and my grandma is a firetruck.
---NurseRobert on 7/3/17


HAZ, I believe where many Christians draw the line here with your rantings, you promote the likes of John Rushdoony, who was a Christian RECONSTRUCTIONIST, and where many confusing Christianity with the far right and Republican far right as the hammer of God on all things sinful.
HOWEVER HAZ, that is a false doctrine never taught by the apostles or prophets or even Jesus. They did not promote reconstructionism. And the sad idea that many people think they are Christians because they are a republican.

We are in this world, but not of this words, as ambassadors for Christ. Our job is to share the Gospel. You can't share the Love of God to those you come off as as hating. They can't HEAR YOU.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/17




Haz27:

You keep blathering about "puppet masters". I agree with the left in some things, and the right in others.

I do NOT defend "Left's Christian hating attacks". However, it is not Christians' duty or right to condemn the morality of non-Christians - just that of Christians, or at least claim to be so. They will be judged by their own laws. We will be judged by ours.

Is your obedience to Left such that you even support the "goodness" of LGBT lifestyle?

When have I ever said that? Please provide an exact quote (good luck with that).

So, bakers judge "innocent until proven guilty" - except when LGBT, then "guilty until proven innocent"?
---StrongAxe on 7/3/17


John, I see you still don't get it. HERE IS ALL the Authority I need.....right here IN SCRIPTURE, spoken by the apostles and prophets.

Why do you need Augustine etc to tell you what God has already told you through the Apostles and prophets?


Ephesians 2:20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit,

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
---kathr4453 on 7/3/17


Now we know Augustine was a Gnostic, who actually co-mingled much of his beliefs with that of Gnosticism. Calvin believed in infant baptism....NOT IN SCRIPTURE. THAT is my point John. All I need is the WORD of God spoken exclusively through the Prophets and Apostles. I do not need Augustine or anyone else reiterating WHAT GOD HAS ALREADY SPOKEN THROUGH THE PROPHETS AND APOSTLES.
Augustine OR your list of men WERE NOT APOSTLES AND PROPHETS. And no where does the Apostles or Prophets instruct me follow them or submit to them, but to BEWARE of them and RUN FROM THEM.

I don't care HOW pious and lofty their religious words were, if they contridicted the PURE WORD OF GOD.
Do you GET IT NOW?
---kathr4454 on 7/3/17


Augustine's doctrine of sin, with his belief in the inherent sinfulness of the physical constitution, is wholly Manichaean. His idea that sin is propagated through the marriage union, that sexual desire is sin and that sexual lust in procreation transmits sin is also Manichaean. Augustine built his doctrine of original sin upon this premise that sexual lust in procreation transmits sin.


I believe this is where even TODAY there is some sort of shame associated with Catholic Woman who are pregnant and these woman have to do something or say something ......and many of these women TODAY refuse to take part in this ritual.
---kathr445 on 7/3/17


strongaxe:

"If Christian bakers can refuse LGBT clients, they can refuse remarried divorcees,"

Tell us, how did you reach this conclusion Remarried Divorcees are (1 man and 1 woman) the exact Biblical Definition of Marriage.

"Christians are required to uphold their own morality, regardless of whether others uphold their own."

They are, but they don't have to accept something being shub down their throats...

Its patently false in stating the Lord Jesus Christ never addressed LGBT Matters,

Matt 19:1-9, Rom 1:18-27, 1 Tim 1:8-10, and 1 Cor 6:9-11.
---john9346 on 7/3/17


CHURCHING. (All was derived from Augustine's beliefs....NOT JUDIASM. JUDIASM never taught child birth or procreation was a sin that needed purification. Just the RCCs distortion of purification.

Churching is thought to derive from a Jewish purification rite, where the sin of childbirth was washed away. Many people considered that childbirth made a woman unholy or unclean because it resulted from sexual activity, sexual abstinence and virginity being equated to holiness. People considered the purification rite, or rite of churching to be very important as it allowed the unclean woman to re-enter the church in a state of grace.
The rite was dropped by the Catholic Church after the second Vatican Council of 1967-65.
---kathr453 on 7/3/17


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Kathr:

Again,

Augustine himself witnesses against you he lived in the Fourth Century:

"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life ..."

Augustine on Christian Doctrine book 2 chapter 9
---john9346 on 7/2/17


Kathr:

1. Irenaeus, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Augustine witness against you that "Sola Scriptura." didn't exist until the "Reformation."

2. The apostles and prophets believed, taught, and defended what is known today as "Calvinism."

3. You hate the Church Fathers,yet, the Jewish Sages hold the same thing in Judaism (Messianic and general), but you sure won't condemn the sages you even avoid answering the question very telling...
4. The word world in "Scripture." doesn't always mean every singgle person.

Kathr, the Greek Word is, "Kosmos."
---john9346 on 7/2/17


AXE. Your Leftist puppet masters have blinded you. You defend Left's Christian hating attacks, & even ignore Left's refusal to similarly attack LGBT & Muslim bakers.

Is your obedience to Left such that you even support the "goodness" of LGBT lifestyle? A few churches do.
LGBT is clearly denounced in scripture. Divorce likewise. But in divorce there are innocent victims dumped by an adulterous partner (Matt 19:9). No baker can accurately asses what a divorcee's circumstances were. And it's unrealistic of you to even claim they could.

Your misleading argument only confirms that the Left has corrupted your perspective, as evidenced by your constant defense of their oppressive PC tyranny.

---Haz27 on 7/2/17


KATHR. Like I said, your delusional hate and bigotry, which your Leftist puppet masters incited in you, has led you into parroting their Fake News lies.

Khan's record is very relevant & shows him up for the deceitful Muslim supremacist that he is. Trump's response was good.
The sad reality is Leftists are temporary allies with Islamists, hence your defense of anti Christ Islamists.

NURSE. Your constant deflections & obfuscation are typical tactics from the far Left. And the Left's lies you push I've seen often.
BTW, Brietbart, Hannity I see occasionally, and they are honest sources, unlike Left's Fake News liars CNN, NYT, WP, ABC, BBC, MSNBC, etc.

---Haz27 on 7/2/17


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Kathr states, "Before the reformation NO SUCH WORDS EXISTED."

Cyril of Jerusalem in the Fourth Century said, "" Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures."
---john9346 on 7/2/17


Kathr:

Again, Irenaeus believed in "Sola Scriptura." Second Century:

Irenaeus said, ""We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith."
---john9346 on 7/2/17


KATHR. I checked Trump's tweets on Sadiq Khan and don't see problem, especially in context of Sadiq`s record. Obviously you're letting your hate for Trump and your blind trust in Left's Fake news to corrupt your perspective.
---Haz27 on 7/2/17

HAZ , NO One was talking about Khan's RECORD. SO WE SEE you twisting here and justifying something never said. This is rhe Problem with those who defend Trumps twisted sick mind.

TRUMP took a tweet Khan made, altered Khans tweet, and misrepresented Khans words in order for TRUMP to validate TRUMP. Even Republicans said TRUMP twisted.

There are some HONEST Republicans HAZ, ....but you would not fit that category.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/17


THEN are justified in LYING AND TWISTING someone's words
--kathr4453on 7/1/17 in another blog.

He loves to twist the fake news he gets from Brietbart, Fox and the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh.

I have no idea how a righist can come up with falsehoods, then turn around and support a misogynistic liar like Trump.

Haz when are YOU going to stop with YOUR falsehoods, deflecting and obfuscation? I was considering just letting this drop, but your support of false lies from the right wing media, you continually repeating of yourself and belittling the people her who don't kowtow to your right wing fantasies has changed my mind. I intend to challenge you on EVERY deceitful statement you make.
---NurseRobert on 7/2/17


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Haz27:

What attack? If Christian bakers can refuse LGBT clients, they can refuse remarried divorcees, yet I have never heard of any doing so. Saying baking for LGBT clients violates Christian beliefs while NOT saying so for divorcees is blatant hypocrisy, as Jesus taught against divorce, yet never mentioned LGBT. LGBT bakers may refuse Christians, but only because Christians refused first. That may make them bigots, but not hypocrites.

Christians are required to uphold their own morality, regardless of whether others uphold their own.

The Christian Right these days tilts at windmills Jesus never spoke about, while ignoring his ACTUAL teachings.
---StrongAxe on 7/2/17


NURSE. When will you stop your trademark deflecting and obfuscation? It's boring dealing with your constant ducking & weaving.

AXE. Your attack on Christian bakers is ridiculous attempt to justify totalitarian Left's PC bullying. Refusing an LGBT cake is within religious rights to do so. Interestingly when LGBT bakers were asked to bake Christian cake with scripture message on marriage, they refused WITHOUT BEING SUED. Likewise when Muslim bakers were asked to bake LGBT cake, they refused without being sued.

As for divorcees wedding cakes, if the bakers do not agree with most of such weddings they're in no position to assess accurately whether the divorcees were victims of being dumped by adulterous partner, or not.
---Haz27 on 7/1/17


JERRY. It's been interesting exercise to see how determined Leftists here are in obediently supporting totalitarian Left's PC agenda.

They support Muslims with their anti Christ death cult, LGBT sueing Christians refusing to submit to Left's PC thought control, they ignore, deflect from Left's dehumanizing babies to justify abortion/murder.
The Left's brainwashing is strong in them.
Russian KGB Communist defector, Yuri Bezmanov, warned little can be done to rescue such brainwashed people

KATHR. I checked Trump's tweets on Sadiq Khan and don't see problem, especially in context of Sadiq`s record. Obviously you're letting your hate for Trump and your blind trust in Left's Fake news to corrupt your perspective.
---Haz27 on 7/2/17


John, your ramblings are getting worse and worse. I already answered your question. Before the reformation NO SUCH WORDS EXISTED. It was defined to separate from the RCC. Why John can't you grasp,the idea that I was never RCC in the first place. And WHY can't you get it through your head, the Apostles and Prophets never had to go to the church fathers to define faith.

You complicate the simplicity that is IN CHRIST JESUS. Christ is my HEAD John. Christ is my LIFE John.

Stop trying to start some inquisition here......it's annoying. You like HAZ are broken records.....you don't actually LISTEN to others, but rather sound like broken records spewing out the same thing over and over.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/17


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strongaxe said, "Christians bakers refuse to bake cakes for LGBT couples "because it offends their religious beliefs", yet have no problem with baking them for remarried divorcees, as they're OK with that."

Notice, you said, "Remarried." what is marriage according to "Scripture." (between 1 man and 1 woman."
---john9346 on 7/2/17


Kathr,

You seem to have an issue with G-d electing certain people for his own purposes because John Calvin taught it, but your issue is with, "Holy Scripture."

Are you able to stop your attacking and us have a Reasonable Dialog?

I'll start I want to have a dialog with you with John 6:37-45?

Do you agree?
---john9346 on 7/2/17


Haz27:

You wrote: What concerns me though is your continual efforts to excuse or ignore the Left's Christian hating, PC thought policing.

Why should I answer your questions when you repeatedly ignore and evade mine, and instead repeat the same tired old platitudes over and over verbatim, like a broken record?
---StrongAxe on 7/1/17


AXE. Your abortion arguments are skewed. They avoid the decline in abortions in both pro abortion & pro life states. No doubt you trusted Lefts Fake News.
I easily found multiple search results contradicting your claim. Peer reviewed studies found states pro life laws reduce abortion rates. The pro abortion Guttmacher institute research found that even cutting Medicaid reduced abortion.

When I heard your pro abortion argument I thought it odd, but then I knew the Lefts Fake News media, etc, routinely lie, hence checked it out. But thanks for bringing to my attention yet another lie from the Left.

What's concerning is the efforts you go to to support the Left in its propaganda dehumanizing babies to justify abortions.
---Haz27 on 7/1/17


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KATHR. Of course Tammy sees she's rejected in many LEFTIST circles. Thats because she exposed the extreme bias, Fake News of Leftist media. The Left, like Islamists, persecute any within their ranks who expose inconvenient truths.
It seems from your hate of Tammy and critics of Left, that you oppose Tammy's call for FAIR, BALANCED public debate. Only 7% of journalists identify as REPs. Clearly your moral compass sides with totalitarian Left, in spite of their hate, deceit, thought/speech control, etc.

BTW, our so called Conservative party in Aust is the LNP. It's dominated by Leftists who undermine conservatives within the party. Hence your hateful rant condoning Left leaning REPs opposing Trump only shows how far Left you are.
---Haz27 on 7/1/17


Kathr said, "YOU DONT..so your Sola S argument in null as far as you are concerned...making your stance hypocritical."

First, once again, your demonstrating that you do not understand, "Sola Scriptura." not to mention believe it...

Next, tell me, how is believing the words of the Lord Jesus Christ makes one a hypocrite??

Anyone who really studies the "Scriptures." knows that world doesn't always mean every human being?? This is called, "Tota Scriptura." when one rejects "Sola Scriptura." they will quickly reject, "Totta Scriptura."
---john9346 on 7/1/17


Kathr:

"Did Calvin believe in Sola Scriptura?" yes

"however in action and words and everything about him, and his false doctrine.....what good did it do him to say he did?"

Kathr, Sola Scriptura depends on G-d and recognizes he is the one who authored the "Scriptures." and not a man.

Again, your demonstrating that you do not, "Understand." "Sola Scriptura."

BTW, let him without sin cast the first stone...
---john9346 on 7/1/17


Kathr states, "But YOU contradict the very essence of Sola Scriptura yourself..."

Ma'am, remember, you don't understand, "Sola Scriptura." and your demonstrating each time you write you don't have an understanding... this why I provided the def.

I would like for you to demonstrate now how i'm contradicting myself before responding read def first and understand.

You also didn't answer my questions to you:


But did I ever say they are, "Infallible?" yes or no?

The sages of Judaism also have "Great Value." are you going to treat them with disdain as well? TheTalmud also has Great Value do you hate it to?
---john9346 on 7/1/17


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John, it's YOU who need to listen very carefully to what I have said. This idea that I have to bend to your understanding and words and definitions is getting rather annoying. I do not want to be indoctrinated by YOUR words, definitions and phrases not found in scripture. You just can't seem to get that. I know what Sola is John, however I prefer to state my beliefs in MY OWN WORDS, and not adhear to some Title of words with its definition. I get it John, but now YOU need to get it.....

I believe Jesus died for not only my sin, but for the sin of the whole world". Exactly as scripture states.

YOU DONT..so your Sola S argument in null as far as you are concerned...making your stance hypocritical.
---kathr4453 on 7/1/17


John here is the problem I have with your interrogation.

Did Calvin believe in Sola Scriptura? Yes I believe it is said he did...however in action and words and everything about him, and his false doctrine.....what good did it do him to say he did? Just strating you believe in Sola Scriptura and then denying it's very essence is....well John....a real problem for me. To try to hold someone to bending to those words Sola Scriptura means NOTHING. BUT if it makes YOU feel all warm and fuzzy, more self righteous or religious....by all means....eat up. But YOU contradict the very essence of Sola Scriptura yourself...and THAT is another reason I have a problem with you questioning and interrogating others here. ....
---kathr4454 on 7/1/17


Kathr:

first, take time to read what i'm asking you and what i'm saying to you ok? Nothing I just said to you is hard to understand before objecting just listen to my statements.

Its clear here to me you don't understand what "Sola Scriptura." is just for your own info, The doctrine of Sola Scriptura teaches that the "Scriptures."are the "Final Authority." for faith and practice for the Christian. In other words, all traditions, thoughts, and opinions must come in to "Total Subjection." to the "Scriptures."

If someone doesn't know what something is then they cant say they believe it...
---john9346 on 7/1/17


Kathr said, "As a matter of fact, you keep pushing the works of the church fathers as having some great value,"

But did I ever say they are, "Infallible?" yes or no?

The sages of Judaism also have "Great Value." are you going to treat them with disdain as well? TheTalmud also has Great Value do you hate it to?

Kathr, there is a casm in me saying Someone's Work has "Great Value." and if I said their work is, "Infallible."

Great Value and infallibility have no connection.
---john9346 on 7/1/17


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John, #2

Have I ever said scripture is anywhere other than the Bible? As a matter of fact, you keep pushing the works of the church fathers as having some great value, where I have said to you, "they are NOT the Word of God, and they are NOT scripture". Then you ask me WHY I bring that up here. BECAUSE it shows I do not believe anything other than Scripture contain the Words of God or the Promises of God. And for some reason YOU just can't grasp that fact and STILL question me. If all you know is TERMS like, " infallible bla bla bla " and NOT what those words actually mean..... Meaning THE WORKS OF AUGUSTINE ARE NOT INFALLIBLE.
---kathr4453 on 7/1/17


John, let's take your comment one at a time. 1 st...re Muslims and Abraham, Moses and the Psalms. Well of coarse Muslims believe there was an Abraham, as they are also physical offspring of Abraham through not only Hagar, but also through Esau. I don't think I've ever met someone who refuses to believe that Abraham or Moses existed. Even ATHIEST agree Jesus existed, and know Paul existed.

But believing those facts has nothing to do with faith or Gods Promises.

Maybe because oral history, or other historical documentation not scripture back that up.

So not sure how that makes a point John.
---kathr4453 on 6/30/17


Kathr said, "John, figure it out.......if I put my faith in the promises of God...and I find those promises in the scriptures and NOT with man.......what do you think?"

Not necessarily true because for example muslims believe in Abraham, Moses, and the Psalms,yet, they maintain that the bible is "Corrupt." Also Cluny and Strongaxe who reject, "Sola Scriptura.",yet, they do believe in certain promises as well so this doesn't mean because you say you believe in the "Promises." that you ultimately believe that the "Scriptures." are the only "Infallible Rule of Faith and Practice for Christians.
---john9346 on 6/30/17


John, to your first question......Ans: it can't be separated from your now question.

John, figure it out.......if I put my faith in the promises of God...and I find those promises in the scriptures and NOT with man.......what do you think?

It's not that hard John. Can you think outside your religious box? Can you grasp concepts without your book of words and definitions wanting to put someone in your box?

Don't BOX folks in John according to words and definitions NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE.
---kathr4453 on 6/30/17


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Kathr said, "John, I believe in the Promises of God, ONLY FOUND IN SCRIPTURE."

But what do you believe about the "Scriptures."themselves? Are the "Scriptures." themselves "Inspired." of God or of man?"
I am asking these questions because up until now your arguments have been, "Against." "Sola Scriptura." and not one who believes in it.

I don't assume I ask to know and learn what others are thinking and believing...
---john9346 on 6/29/17


Kathr:

question,

How come everytime I dialog with you you periodically bring up the Church Fathers and Calvinism when the discussion isn't even about either one of those topics?

Could you help me to understand why you do this?
---john9346 on 6/29/17


John, I believe in the Promises of God, ONLY FOUND IN SCRIPTURE. It is not found in the works and writings of your so called Church fathers. Scripture also states FAITH COMES BY HEARING THE WORD OF GOD.

It appears you are so wrapped up in MAN MADE DEFINITIONS, words not found in scripture. And your arguments are using these man made words with man made definitions. I WONT GO THERE.

If you can't figure out WHAT I believe by what I am saying, that is your problem, not mine or God's. The Lord has NO PROBLEM with what I believe.....

Just like all the TULIP words and definitions NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE. IT gunks up the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus and has caused arguments, church splits etc....NOT OF GOD.
---kathr4453 on 6/29/17


Kathr states, "John, I think we have a communication issue here."

I agree, because you ask me, ""Did Abraham or Sarah memorize any scripture before Sarah conceived?" my answer was yes.

Why yes because the words they memorized and quoted were the words God gave them.

Kathr,Ma'am, it was those words that formed "Scripture." for them and us today do you not agree?
---john9346 on 6/29/17


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Kathr states, "Faith does not come by quoting or memorizing scripture John, faith comes by HEARING AND BELIEVING."

The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to say otherwise, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." rom 10:17 also see, Matt 4:4 and Jn 17:17...

"As Cluny asked, did Satan quoting scripture do anything for Satan..."

You and Cluny both are incorrect because satan's Objective was fulfilled in that him tempted the Lord...

Kathr, the Holy Spirit uses, "Scripture." not that he replaces it after all the Holy Spirit he is the one who wrote it right??
---john9346 on 6/29/17


Kathr:

To make sure I understand your position here do you not believe, "the "Scriptures." are the only Infallible Rule of Faith and Practice for Christians?

Sounds like your saying you don't or do you not understand the definition?

BTW, you brought up church fathers, but the one you should be debating on that is Cluny because he believes their writings are on par with the bible and he worships them of which I condemn as "Idolatry." and so do the fathers...
---john9346 on 6/29/17


John, I think we have a communication issue here. There was no Genesis anything Abraham quoted from. So while you choose to go round and round making up things you have no factual proof, except to say... "Yes he Quoted Genesis this and that".....

Faith does not come by quoting or memorizing scripture John, faith comes by HEARING AND BELIEVING.

As Cluny asked, did Satan quoting scripture do anything for Satan...answer NO. And Jesus gave a perfect answer. Even IF scripture (God)promised to CATCH before a fall......it also says we are not to Test God. So wisdom and understanding MUST be part of the equation. And that comes via the Holy Spirit...OUR TEACHER, not our mind, memory or IQ.
---kathr4453 on 6/29/17


kathr:

"You asked Cluny to explain? YOU don't know John?"

No ma'am, not a mind reader... just so you know Cluny and strongaxe both denies, "Sola Scriptura." meaning "Scripture Alone is the only Infallible Rule of Faith for Christians." they don't believe this...

"THEN you ask me if Gods Word is a rule of our faith?"

Yes, I want to know do you yourself believe the "Scriptures." are the Infallible Rule of Faith and Practice for Christians?

faith meaning what "Christians." are to look, live and love by.

So, yes or no do you believe this ma'am?
---john9346 on 6/28/17


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kathr ask, "Did Abraham or Sarah memorize any scripture before Sarah conceived?"

Yes.

"Please show us what BCV's he memorized or quoted before HIS FAITH did him any good."

Gen 12:1-3, 15:1-5.

The fact that I have to cite these verses to you is why I asked you before, "Tell us, do you believe the "Scriptures." are, "Theopneustos." meaning the Direct Words of God?"

---john9346 on 6/28/17


strongaxe:

"Only if they skimmed it quickly without actually paying attention. Note the capitalized "Christian" just before "scripture"? One doesn't normally repeat words closely in a sentence without a good reason to do so."
Sir, your statement was ambiguous in misleading.

"It's obvious they had SOME scripture - otherwise Paul's statement about scripture being profitable would have been meaningless. One must conclude the scripture they had wasn't CHRISTIAN but some other kind (i.e. Jewish)."

wasn't in your statement...

"None of the verses you quoted says Jesus is God."

Did you read them?

Polycarp's Prayer was formulated from those verses sir.
---john9346 on 6/28/17


cluny ask, "john, demons and pharisees and even Satan quoted the Scriptures to Jesus. But did their knowledge of the Scriptures do them any good?"

What do you mean by asking did it do them any good?

explain?
---john9346 on 6/27/17

You asked Cluny to explain? YOU don't know John? THEN you ask me if Gods Word is a rule of our faith?

It appears by your two statements here John, you have NO CLUE about FAITH.


Did Abraham or Sarah memorize any scripture before Sarah conceived? Remember they had FAITH......
Abraham is the FATHER of our faith the perfect EXAMPLE OF FAITH. Please show us what BCV's he memorized or quoted before HIS FAITH did him any good.
---kathr4453 on 6/28/17


John, I'm not sure what your issues are. I believe in the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus. You seem to want to make our relationship with the Lord stand on rules and conditions....much like the Pharisees.......yet with all their religiousness and rules and self righteousness, they were as lost as lost could be. Why BECAUSE THEY DIDNT HAVE FAITH. Yet they quoted the Word, obeyed the Word. Clean on the outside and dead man's bones in the inside.

And FAITH is not picking out any verse you want and expecting God to make it come to pass. That's WOF's false doctrine as well, which it appears you may be promoting here?????
---kathr4453 on 6/28/17


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And finally John, if your asking if I have put my faith in anything or anyone's writings other than the word of God, the answer is NO, not even your church fathers writings. And THIS IS WHAT I have been trying to tell you for months now.

Your argument only contradicts your own pushing of the writings of the so called Church fathers YOU try to push on others calling them...what.....the INFALLIBLE word of God? They are NOT John.

You can't have it both ways. Yet you want both........

There is NO POWER ( FAITH) in the words of Augustine......
---kathr4453 on 6/28/17


//The Canadian Senate passed a bill, the house has not. Not a law.

"Try it again. It doesn't pop up as you claim."

I know you have problems looking things up. It's there. Spend a little time researching.---NurseRobert on 6/26/17

Sweetie, I think you need the time not me.
The PM appointed a special oversight to make sure NO ONE breaks the NEW CANADIAN LAW!

...The Canadian Senate passed controversial gender identity legislation Thursday night.

Dubbed the bathroom bill by its many critics who say it provides legal protection to an undefined group, Bill C-16 provides sweeping protection for transgender Canadians from both discrimation and hate crimes.-- Daily Caller

Go ahead and Goggle it.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/28/17


Strongaxe:

In reference to 2 Tim 3:16-17:

1. What is profitable? adequate? and makes the man of God perfect??

2. If the "Scriptures." are not, "Theopneustos." then what is?

3. Why are the "Scriptures." profitable, adequate, and make the man of God perfect?

4. Is the church "Infallible?"

5. Give me one, "Church Father." who believed, taught, and defend they "Infallible?"
---john9346 on 6/27/17


Kathr:

1. How does Lk 12:11 go over my head in my relation to my question to you which is again, "Tell us, do you believe the "Scriptures." are, "Theopneustos." meaning the Direct Words of God?"

Kathr, ma'am, do you believe the bible is the sole Infallible Rule of faith and practice for Christians yes or no.
---john9346 on 6/27/17


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strongaxe:

1. How does God Communicates with us please google. contains the def of, "Sola Scriptura. and canonicity"2.

2. What's your point in citing Jn 20:30-31 are you trying to argue that it contradicts 2 Tim 3:15-17?

3. "1 Cor 4:6 says men aren't above scripture, not scripture is above men."

So, if "Scripture." isn't above men then men are God right??
---john9346 on 6/27/17


cluny ask, "john, demons and pharisees and even Satan quoted the Scriptures to Jesus. But did their knowledge of the Scriptures do them any good?"

What do you mean by asking did it do them any good?

explain?
---john9346 on 6/27/17


Luke 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

The question is, does John BELIEVE and put his faith in the promises of God? That is really the bottom line John. Here's a promise John, that seemed to go over your head.

We live by FAITH John, FAITH IN HIS PROMISES.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/17


john9346:

Again, "How God communicates With Us." is no longer listed.

From "Is Sola Scriptura A Theory.":

2 Tim 3:15-17, John 20:30-31 say scripture is useful, not that it's exclusive.
1 Cor 4:6 says men aren't above scripture, not scripture is above men.
(If you meant some other post, please indicate the date, giving just a blog is like saying "It's in John somewhere". There's not room to dissect all 75 posts in one reply.)


Samuelbb7:

Jesus telling his followers to eat his flesh DIRECTLY contradicted dietary laws from Leviticus. Many followers who believed Sola Scriptura had to leave him as a false teacher over this. The ones who stayed did NOT follow Sola Scriptura.
---StrongAxe on 6/21/17


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strongaxe:

"How God communicates With Us." Blog.

"Is Sola Scriptura A Theory." Blog

These 2 blogs provide my position as well as the "Def." of Sola Scriptura.

What i'm finding is many blogs have knowledge of one position so no need to keep repeating because if one is paying attention they would know the positions, and beliefs of others.

Strongaxe, this is ironic because I know your position from these blogs and others but you don't no mine? :-)

Just want you know I appreciate your contribution to debate/dialog and hold nothing Personal against you just know andremember.
---john9346 on 6/21/17


\\"Memorization of scripture has no power John. It's the "Holy Spirit" that brings scripture to our mind WHEN WE NEED IT,"

Tell us, do you believe the "Scriptures." are, "Theopneustos." meaning the Direct Words of God?"
---john9346 on 6/19/17\\

john, demons and pharisees and even Satan quoted the Scriptures to Jesus. But did their knowledge of the Scriptures do them any good?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/21/17


john9346:

You wrote: I asked you to provide the def prior and you couldn't.

I admitted that I couldn't, so I asked you to provide yours, but instead of simply stating it, you direct me to another blog (which I couldn't find). You waste much more blog time arguing the issue than simply stating your position. It is illogical to debate you on a position when I don't even know exactly what your position is (since you keep telling me that my belief of what your position is incorrect, but you won't tell me what is wrong about it).
---StrongAxe on 6/20/17


strongaxe:

""All scripture is profitable" does not imply "All non-scripture is non-profitable"."

Sir, this goes back to do you understand the def of, "Sola Scriptura."

I asked you to provide the def prior and you couldn't.

Its illogical to continue attacking a position when one cant define it.
---john9346 on 6/19/17


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Kathr:

"John when WE speak the Word of God it is accompanied by the Holy Spirit with POWER."

Ma'am, the "Scriptures." come from the Holy Spirit that is why the "Scriptures." are, "Powerful."

"Memorization of scripture has no power John. It's the "Holy Spirit" that brings scripture to our mind WHEN WE NEED IT,"

Tell us, do you believe the "Scriptures." are, "Theopneustos." meaning the Direct Words of God?"
---john9346 on 6/19/17


Strongaxe:

If all of "Scripture.", is not, "Theopneustos." then what is?
---john9346 on 6/19/17


john9346:

You quoted: 2 Timothy 3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

"All scripture is profitable" does not imply "All non-scripture is non-profitable".
---StrongAxe on 6/18/17


Cluny ALSO saw your words being BCV. John when WE speak the Word of God it is accompanied by the Holy Spirit with POWER. Please don't go back and rewrite MY WORDS, by suggesting they need your correction.

Memorization of scripture has no power John. It's the "Holy Spirit" that brings scripture to our mind WHEN WE NEED IT, not our memory. A brilliant ATHIEST can memorize scripture. I knew someone years ago who memorized more scripture than anyone around, and THEN converted to the JW's.

Give it a rest John. YOU insisted in pressing BCV, not scripture itself. I insisted scripture itself has Power.

This is why you get into so many arguments here with folks.......you don't LISTEN.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/17


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Kathr:

" Augustine was around 400 ad. C and V was around 1200ad."

But he had memorization of, "Scripture."

"I believe quoting the Word of God is accompanied by the Holy Spirit with POWER."

Kathr, the Holy Spirit, "Inspired." "Scripture." in other words the Holy Spirit working through the "Scriptures." is the power... Heb 4:12 Jn 17:17.

Kathr, you asked me had anyone ever been saved by reading, "Scripture." and I gave you 4-Noted Christians who were...
---john9346 on 6/17/17


It is astonishing how those who say they are Christians and then turn around and deny "Sola Scriptura." What they fail to recognize is without, "Sola Scriptura." there is and would never be "Christianity."

2 Tim 3:

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
---john9346 on 6/17/17


Augustine was around 400 ad. C and V was around 1200ad.

I believe quoting the Word of God is accompanied by the Holy Spirit with POWER. With C.S. I understand the preacher read From Isaiah, but no one can prove or disprove the preacher stated C and V.

I often hear men pray scripture without stating BCV in the prayer.

So again, it's interesting John actually started ANOTHER "finish it here" wanting to continue a lie. Are you just lonely John,....or do you just LOVE arguing? Making statements without any proof or backup means nothing John. Again, you should have just left it alone. BUT we know it's not in your nature. So now what....change the context to say you meant something else?
---kathr4453 on 6/17/17


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