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Who's The Elect

For our strict Calvinist friends:

How do you know you're among the elect?

Join Our Free Dating and Take The Salvation Bible Quiz
 ---Cluny on 8/1/17
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Nicole, your disapproval won't change the facts. Flushing down toilet into septic tank is ....flushing down toilet to septic tank. The government did not do the flushing....the NUNS DID.

No one went out into the yard and pried open the septic tank and threw in a dead baby 800 times. The stench itself would have brought awareness. They were FLUSHED....

Trying to spin it another way Nicole will not work. Try again.

OVERWORKED NUNS with taking in too many to care for, under horrible conditions ....leads to this. NOT OF GOD. And Ireland did not have separation of ( Church ( RCC and State. ). So the RCC state run government is at fault.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/17

Also Nicole, maybe you didn't get this the first time, showing you that regarding the story of EVELYN, that the RCC had such a stronghold in Ireland's Government that the Law suit ..a landmark one at that, was with the Catholic Church's stronghold in the Irish Government.

All throughout history Nicole, there have been horrible stories of abuse of families by the RCC taking children away....and thousands upon thousands also ended up in Australia, where the RCC and Church of England colluded together ......stealing children from poor families..

Please don't think hiding behind good works in the Catholic Church is something to brag about. And thank Goodness the RCC never got a stronghold in the American Government.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/17

Kathr, I didn't use Rob as an example for you to twist his situation. Rob and I are explaining how one works hard WITHOUT counting the cost!

//You make it sound like only those who are overworked without pay will be rewarded in heaven.//

No, I am not saying that, Jesus is saying that!

If you are paid you are ALREADY rewarded! Matthew 6:1-6 Follow it.

Stop worrying about what someone else is doing.

//stop being so smug that you think the Catholic Church is the ONLY ones out there doing humanitarian deeds. Not so.--kathr4453

See Jerry what I am talking about?

I NEVER SAID Catholics are the only ones doing humanitarian deeds.

Another one of Kathr's lies.

She CAN'T debate honestly.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/25/17

Kathr: HomeNewsIrish NewsTuam babies scandal

I already disapproved that scandal that occurred 70yrs ago. The scandal ISN'T with the nuns, but the IRISH government ran by the Protestants.

They refused to help bury their own baby citizens. We don't believe in discarding baby. Note the babies were in one location. The Nuns buried them as best as they can.

//There is no excuse for this.//

You better believe it! Catholic Babies are just as GOOD as Protestant Babies.

Why don't you speak about the Protestant induced Catholic famine?

You need to worry about your own SOUL instead of playing God. Matthew 7:1
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/25/17

HomeNewsIrish NewsTuam babies scandal
Order of nuns that dumped up to 800 babies into a septic tank must be disbanded, says TD
The nuns remained silent in the face of national outrage over the child-dumping scandal which Taoiseach Enda Kenny branded truly appalling

There is no excuse for this. And it's estimated here are 15 more of these ORDERS in Ireland the grounds now being investigated.

These ( the guilty nuns) have no reward in Heaven Nicole. And non of these babies were given proper burials, as all baptized Catholic Babies are....suggesting the Catholic Church regarded illegitimate babies nothing more than dung to be flushed down the toilet.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/17

Nicole, Rob will also be rewarded by the Lord. You make it sound like only those who are overworked without pay will be rewarded in heaven. Yet, there is also a verse....."Haven't we done wonderful things I your name, and the Lord will say...I NEVER KNEW YOU. ". So actually not all who think they will be rewarded will actually be rewarded. There are many Humanitarian workers in this world, doing wonderful sacrificial works....yet, if they don't profess to be Christians, so their reward is only here...and they are satisfied with that.

So Nicole, stop being so smug that you think the Catholic Church is the ONLY ones out there doing humanitarian deeds. Not so.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/17

Nicole, you gave this verse:

Matthew 16:26

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

So Nicole, are you saying you gave to the RCC In exchange for your soul? You think you can barter with God for your soul?

I'm so sad that you have totally failed to comprehend this verse and think you can EARN or work your way to heaven.....

---kath453 on 9/25/17

//those who were in the military receive benefits for service..//

Yea, you get your benefits from man and I will get mine from God. Matthew 16:26

//If the Order knew you were medically challenged in the first place, they never should have allowed you in in the first place.//


//You said they HAD to take you, but obviously didn't have to keep you.//

I never said that. I said they needed MD's clearance for my entry.

Just as another MD's got me removed.


//If they didn't disclose this to you ..either your they were not completely honest.---kathr4453

No, either you are forgetful or dishonest?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/24/17

Nicole, to answer your question....this goes back a few months when I brought up a Nunnery order in Ireland where unwed mothers were sent. Also showing you where a mass grave was found of over 800 corpses of women and babies..showing horrible care and abuse leading to these deaths.

You didn't have a problem with what was discovered, excusing this Order and Nuns because they were caring for more than they had money to care for...and many were Protestants ( as if that made it ok ) .

No one has accused you or your order of neglecting anyone....BUT HAVE BOOOOOOD the fact that YOU ALL were overworked and were not compensated. Please read what we are writing.
---kathr4453 on 9/24/17

Even those who were in the military receive benefits for service...VA Bill, even paying for education, and those who are career military get life long pensions.

So Nicole, you are comparing apples to oranges. Also those with medical conditions most likely are 4F and can't get into the military.

If the Order knew you were medically challenged in the first place , they never should have allowed you in in the first place. You said they HAD to take you, but obviously didn't have to keep you. If they didn't disclose this to you ..either your they were not completely honest.
---kathr4453 on 9/24/17

//You can't care for EVRYONE, and if you try, you will fail, and the patients will suffer, and so will all the people trying to care for them.//

Let's not be ridiculous. Even Jesus DIDN'T heal everyone when He could with the snap of the finger.

Jesus worked to exhaustion. When He finally had time to sleep He prayed instead.

Not ONE person suffered in our homes. They got EXCELLENT CARE.

But you still refused to accept the obvious. How are you claiming that NOT giving care to these patient is BETTER than care received from Sisters working 70hrs or more?

Please answer that question.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/24/17

Many Protestant charities who do not enslave employees, or force vows to work there.

FPWA exists today with a membership of almost 200 social service agencies and churches throughout New York City and the surrounding area. Its policy efforts focus on issues of income security, child welfare, childcare and education, elderly welfare, workforce development, youth services, HIV and AIDS, and offers scholarship programs and emergency financial assistance through the New York Times Neediest Cases Fund. In addition, in 2007 it was among over 530 New York City arts and social service institutions to receive part of a $30 million grant from the Carnegie Corporation.
---kathr4453 on 9/24/17

//in the Army I was a Combat Medic..Most people have no clue about working long hours and being exhausted.---Rob

I DO. My dad told us about the INSANE hours they worked in the Army and in Vietnam.

He said it wasn't anything to work 18 hours with 6 hours rest in between for bath, sleep and EATING

StrongAxe, I reposted Rob's post to prove a point. Of course we can't save everyone. As a combat medic Rob and his team couldn't save everyone wounded on the field EITHER

But that didn't STOP them SAVING AS MANY AS POSSIBLE until the point of EXHAUSTION!

LEAVE NO MAN BEHIND is a Motto for a reason.

The wounded man on the field didn't care if Rob hasn't SLEPT in 2 days. He still wanted Rob to HELP him!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/24/17


You wrote: Who do you suggest they DENY health care?

Convents are not Superman. They can reasonably provide care for just so many people. You can't care for EVRYONE, and if you try, you will fail, and the patients will suffer, and so will all the people trying to care for them.

You all on the Left claim a woman has a choice when it comes to her reproductive body, but I can't decide for myself whether or not to work 70hrs a day?

First of all, you err when you say "you all on the left", because when have I ever said that? And yes, if you want to work so many hours that it can affect your health, it's totally your choice to do so.
---StrongAxe on 9/23/17

When I was in the Army I was a Combat Medic, and Orthopedic Specialist. Most people have no clue about working long hours and being exhausted.
---Rob on 9/23/17

Nicole, billions of people as you say, pay into Medicaid, Medicare Social Security...even business owners....who also reap the reward of PROFITS for the fruit of their labor, and also give bonuses and incentives for those who willingly want to work AND GET PAID for their work.

The Catholic Setup does not pass the James chapter 5 test who's silver and gold will rot and rust away, as they get rich off the backs of their worker bees.

Shame on you Nicole for defending that system, where the Catholic Church skirts their responsibility of caring for those who helped the church GET RICH in the first place. It's no different than Southern Slavery...building a CHRISTIAN NATION you claim off the backs of slaves.
---kathr4453 on 9/23/17

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PLEASE PRAY FOR MY FAMILY IN PUERTO RICO. Still no communication due to no power/cell towers down

//Working sisters 70 hours a week is purely a choice of the community.--StrongAxe

Of course, including MY CHOICE. Do you think I wasn't aware of the working hours before hand?

I petitioned to enter the community and the Order had to accept me.

Everyone needs clearance (private Psych MD, not one from the Order).
I needed an additional Family MD clearance due to my illness before entering the Order. IT WAS MY CHOICE!

You all on the Left claim a woman has a choice when it comes to her reproductive body, but I can't decide for myself whether or not to work 70hrs a day?

It's my body not yours or Kathr.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/23/17

Can you and StrongAxe be reasonable? So we should let people die because we are too tired? Do you and StrongAxe see your illogical way of thinking?

Who do you suggest they DENY health care?


Can you both get over this business mentality.

I know business Owners who work 12 hrs a day 6 days a week. That's 72 hrs a week.

The military works their Soldiers that much or more.

I was already SICK when I entered the convent. The convent DID NOT make me SICK.

News flash. Billions of people work 70 hrs. a week all over the world. Just because you can't doesn't mean other can't.

I am sure Protestant Missionaries work just as much as the Sisters.

---Nicole_Lacey on 9/23/17


Exactly! You just proved my point! That people have problems 168 hours of the week doesn't in any way mean that YOU, or anyone else needs to work 168, or 70, or any other number. Working sisters 70 hours a week is purely a choice of the community.

How does God grant you vacations? Isn't it up to your superiors? God doesn't mention vacations anywhere in the Bible.

I said some companies are cheap, not God. However, it's always a trade-off between getting more workers, working workers harder, or doing less work. Serving more people with the same workers causes more stress on the workers.

I said every enterprise (whether for profit OR NOT). The laws of economics apply to everyone.
---StrongAxe on 9/23/17

Thank you Nicole for the information. In respect to Strongaxe's comments and questions, I would also agree that the church should not take in more than it can REASONALBE care for. Overworking staff suggests they are, putting their staff at health risk and loss of staff.

It is also a fact Nicole that the entry of new young women entering the Nunnery is down down down considerably over the years. There was a huge WANT AD in the Atlanta Paper for Nuns. And seeing now the Church...some orders do not care for the older retired ones along with some very bad things that happened...along with stories like the Magdaline Sisters ...

But no Nuns are FORCED to care for Protestants, because Protestants refuse to care for Protestants.
---kathr4453 on 9/23/17

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//They are sick 24/7. Why only work 70 hours instead of 168?//

Because the other Sisters are working while I am off. We work together as a community.

//Jesus took a break from the crowds. God took a rest from creation.//

As us, we got 2 week vacation to go anywhere.

//divide work among workers on multiple shifts, and have enough workers to cover those shifts.//

We have great work schedule. But it's God Who grants vocations to the Community.

//their workers work overtime because they're too cheap to hire extra workers.//

God isn't cheap.

//Every enterprise(whether for profit or not) must properly manage resources vs. demand.--StrongAxe

Religious Orders are not ran as Corporation.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/22/17


They are sick 24/7. Why only work 70 hours instead of 168? Because workers are not supermen, and need rest. Jesus took a break from the crowds. God took a rest from creation.

The obvious solution is to divide work among workers on multiple shifts, and have enough workers to cover those shifts. The maximum number of patients that can be reasonably taken care of is number of hours per shift times number of workers times number of patients one worker can cover divided by number of hours in a week.

Similar excuses are given by many companies that demand their workers work overtime because they're too cheap to hire extra workers. Every enterprise (whether for profit or not) must properly manage resources vs. demand.
---StrongAxe on 9/22/17

Kathr, just so you can THANK a Nun I will tell you the free nursing home care. You can google it, go to Wikipedia or watch them on Youtube. EVEN DONATE.

In fact there is a home in your own city Atlanta. Go visit them and ask them yourself.

Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne. Congregation of Saint Rose of Lima. Servants of the incurable cancerous poor.

The Writer, Nathanial Hawthorne's youngest daughter Rose Hawthorne started the community.

They don't take a PENNY from any FORM of Government/State Aide. GO AHEAD AND ASK THEM.

//destroying all credibility you may have had.--Kathr

The TRUTH stands on it's own. I am not afraid. Go check for yourself.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/22/17

Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Even under Israel, which the RCC claim they have patterned their organization after, totally goes against any work for free, ...God NEVER instituted such a thing. The Levites weren't asked to return all to the temple. And it was not communal living either. And women were not forced to not marry and serve the temple in stead. And even the Priests and High Priests in Israel married and had children of which their sons became priests.

Seems there are many articles about discrimination in the Catholic Church. ...written by Catholics.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/17

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Nicole, before we all swallow that load....please provide exactly WHERE you were a nursing home RN caring for Protestants that Protestants refused to care for, and FOR FREE for that matter where you were forced to work 70 hrs a week talking care of Protestants that Protestants refused to care for. ??? If you cannot provide such exact names dates place, then I will have to call your LIE OUT.

Protestants in this country who have no money are taken care of by the State or Federal Government with Medicade. Even those RNs caring for them along with Catholic elderly GET PAID.

NOW your making nasty comments and lies.....destroying all credibility you may have had.

3rd world country maybe...NOT HERE.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/17

//your free education at the expense of people who paid taxes.//

As I am paying for others today.

The Sisters PAID for most of the Sisters. I just happened to enter with a RN degree.

//HORRIBLE of them to take from you your education they did not pay for, and EXPLOIT you--Kathr

THEY or the people who were sick? You got it backwards.

Who do you think were in the beds? The sisters? NO, in fact MOST of our patients are PROTESTANTS!

I gave them baths, cleaned their vomits, washed their clothes, hand fed them, dispensed their medication, brushed their teeth and consoled them when NO ONE visited them.

If you won't take care of your own Protestant brothers and sisters, PLEASE don't try to STOP us.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/22/17

#2 Nicole....let me restate.... I do not begrudge you your free education at the expense of people who paid taxes. The Catholic Church does not, NOR did they pay for your nursing. It was absolutely HORRIBLE of them to take from you your education they did not pay for, and EXPLOIT you to work 70 hrs a week, when you were not physically able to...AFTER GIVING THEM 3 years.... Then put you out . Now if the Catholic Church paid for your nursing and then expected you to pay back with your blood sweat and working you 70 hrs a week...I still say BOO.

And if I work for FREE, it's MY TIME I'm giving....where no one is FORCING me to work for free. That is slavery Nicole. You should know that much.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/17

//Black women in the Catholic Nunneries are discriminated against. As one nun wrote a book--Kathr

Cite that book, she lied. I was the only Black Nun and worked LESS hours than the White and Asians Nuns.
A White Nun Saint Katharine Drexel founded the Blessed Sacrament Sisters EDUCATED Blacks for FREE esp. in the South where Protestants constantly mistreated them(both).

Cannon law demands at least 2 yrs of Novitiate (2yrs) before 1st vows. I didn't work 70hrs a week during the Novitiate.

WHAT WAGES? No ones received a wage.

Priests and Nuns do not have jobs that obtain wages. Protestant Ministers work OUTSIDE their ministry, thus pay taxes.

That's why I called them weekend Pastors.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/22/17

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There's a couple areas here to explore. 1) that it is a fact Black women in the Catholic Nunneries are discriminated against. As one nun wrote a book and exposed it. So did EVERY NURSE have to work 70 hrs a week, or only the Black Nuns?

2) Did you take a vow of poverty Nicole...when you first went in, where your wages went to your Religious Order, and You did not have to pay TAXES? Priests and nuns do not pay taxes on wages earned..YET PROTESTANT Ministers do. The whole picture of the Catholic Church is BONDAGE and tax evasion.

So, now you do pay say, paying it forward for the Government Taxes ( not the Catholic Church ) that paid for your nursing.

I see God really did have the final say here in the end.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/17

//Why does everyone there work 70 hours a week?//

Because MANY who are sick needing FREE care. We which were few did DIRECT care.

Maybe if people HELPED us more we could work less. Until they do we are NOT EXCUSED from caring for the sick.

When we take care of the sick we see us taking care of Jesus. Matthew 25:36 "I was SICK and you looked after ME."

//Most western nations have work weeks of 40 hours--StrongAxe

Are people in Western Nations sick ONLY 40 HOURS A WEEK?

The Church has to FOLLOW the Secular's standard of 40 hrs? JESUS is the Standard not the world.

Remember, the crowd told Him to come down from the cross to SAVE Himself. That was wise to them. That is by WORLDLY WISDOM.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/22/17


Why does everyone there work 70 hours a week? Most western nations have work weeks of 40 hours or even less, because they recognize longer work weeks are detrimental to workers' physical and mental health. A few times, years ago, I had projects that required intense bouts of overtime. I discovered that I could do 80 hours of work in one week, but doing so required me to take a week off to recuperate. Thus, I could get just as much work done by pushing myself as I would without doing so, but because of the stress and lack of rest, the work quality was actually lower.

How can Christians be called Christ's slaves, if we are free to leave at any time? And as kathr pointed out, the RCC used to forbid people from leaving.
---StrongAxe on 9/22/17

RCC Magdaline wash houses women were in fact slaves and locked in and abused, totally documented, yet Nicole calls a lie. JIm Jones enslaved his folks ...yes, with armed guards so they couldn't get away and tell others what was going on.

NO Nicole, you were not a slave to the RCC...just taken advantage by them, since Churches do not have to adhear to the same Laws as corporations, so that we don't see what we saw in the Triangle Shirtwaste Factory fire, where women were chained in and worked 70+ workweeks, with low pay...

Because Churches dont have to abide by these laws, they EXPLOIT ......

Difference Nicole, GOD never EXPLOITS His flock. AND your now "getting paid" for your work, as you should be.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/17

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//not the slave of Jesus,---StrongAxe

Please don't embolden Kathr's CRAZY thinking.

Can we please stop using words that doesn't fit a situation because there are REAL SLAVES in the world?

1. All the Nuns work 70 hrs or more. Most worked more. Believe it or not I worked less than most because of my illness.

2. Slave suggest someone is resting while you are FORCE to work on their behalf. Not so in the Convent. EVERYONE WORKS and takes a vow of poverty. Only One benefits from our hard work - Jesus Christ. So we are slaves to Jesus as Paul.

3. Slaves can not DECIDE to walk away from their enslavement as you and Kathr know I did.

The locks on the door were not there to keep me inside, but to you all out!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/21/17

Nicole, because we live in a FREE country, that is free to believe what one believes, as it always has been under the Lord, there was a time men were NOT FREE to believe and practice their own beliefs....where the RCC rounded up and murdered anyone they accused of being a heretic. At least Scientology doesn't do that....

If the reformation had not taken place, the RCC would still be murdering anyone who wanted OUT.

Once a cult always a cult Nicole. Forcing you to work 70 hours a week is slavery and many brainwashed religious folk don't even know it. Your work today as a nurse is serving the Lord......POOOOO on the Catholic Church for unrealistic work ethics.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/17


Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light". If any religious organization is imposing difficult or impossible burdens on you, those are neither easy nor light. Therefore, if you obey those, you're doing so as the slave of the organization, but not the slave of Jesus, because he would never require such things from you.
---StrongAxe on 9/21/17

Kathr, please know the what constitutes a cult. Even your own words contradicts each other.

People said that it is HARD to get out of the Scientology Church.

You and millions of others prove that you have no trouble leaving the Catholic Church. The Swiss Guard isn't visiting your home.

Plus, if you speak against the Scientology Church they come after you.

Again you and others speak out all the time with LIES about the Catholic Church without fear. Because the Swiss Guard doesn't come after you.

You told lies about washrooms with women and I proved you were lying about them as well.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/21/17

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Nicole, LOL now you want to compare yourself to Paul?
WOW, no words for that. Paul did not take from anyone, but supported himself by being a tent maker,while being CALLED OUT to serve the Lord, also suffered affliction....and through it all , was not PUT OUT by anyone. Your life or that of A nun has no comparison to his. AND ALSO No physician, ( Luke who was a physician stayed with Paul) did not go over Pauls head either and tell anyone his work was too hard. Many are CALLED to serve the Lord and answer to no one BUT THE LORD.

You just don't get it...and maybe never will. I get we will just have to agree to disagree. Are you mature enough to accept the fact others don't always agree with you?
---kathr4453 on 9/21/17

//And being a slave to a church is not the same as serving the Lord.//

It's the SAME THING!

Acts 9:5-6
"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. I AM JESUS, WHOM YOU ARE PERSECUTING."

Jesus left earth! Remember?

Paul was persecuting the Church which means Jesus.

So being the Slave of the Church is being a slave of Jesus.

//And no DR trumps God..--Kathr.

Do you see why I said you are so disingenuous. Why do you lie so much? Who said God?


You disagree with Paul when he states he is a slave, but you believe him when he speaks about Graces?

You CAN'T pick and choose which part of the Bible to believe. It doesn't work that way.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/21/17

you saying we are not to be Slaves of Christ. Romans 1:1 and 1 Cor 7:22
Know your Bible.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/20/17

Actually Nicole, the Lord never puts more on us that HE GIVES us the GRACE to carry out. And being a slave to a church is not the same as serving the Lord. And no DR trumps God...

Paul said he gloried in his sufferings that the GRACE of God rested upon him....obviously you did not receive such GRACE. That's the difference between being CALLED and calling yourself.
I think your the one who needs to know the Bible and how the Lord actually works THROUGH US Nicole.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/17

Election isn't to "whoever is a believer"

The elect are those in Romans 8:17 - Joint-Heirs with Christ IF we suffer with Him.

Those who are led by the Holy Spirit and are declared to be sons of God (Rom 8:14)

Those who are conformed to the image of Christ (Rom 8:29)

The elect are those who secure their inheritance (Colossians 3:23-24)

Not every believer will qualify, but every believer will be with Christ

Many are called, few are chosen
---James_L on 9/21/17

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Kathr, you are so childish.

This is the last time I am going to explain it to you. You are too obsesses with the convent.
No matter what you claim, you wanted to be nun as a child. NO ONE on CN cares but you?
StrongAxe even TRIED to explain it to you.

My doctor told me privately that the Community's demands for a Religious is too much for me and I need to leave the Order. I refused. Next she tried to strong arm my Superior to cut my hours. It did the opposite effect. My doctor profusely apologized.

Doctors trump Superiors in Cannon Law.

//they wanted to use you as a slave worker-----kathr

WE ALL WORKED HARD! Are you saying we are not to be Slaves of Christ. Romans 1:1 and 1 Cor 7:22
Know your Bible.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/20/17

Thank you Nicole for your more lengthy response. SO your dr went behind your back, because you were not able to work 70 hrs a week. You said you refused to,listen to your I'm guessing your DR said you were not physically able to work those kind of hours..and went behind your back telling your superiors it was bad for you, and they put you OUT. Your words Nicole.

Like I said originally

BOOOOOOOO to the Catholic Church people who did that to's shameful......and I don't care if it is a religious order.....they wanted to use you as a slave worker.....just like they did to those women they used washing cloths, except they weren't nuns....just abused by the nuns.
---kathr4453 on 9/20/17

Nicole, Many people have come forward with stories like yours, who left the Catholic Church. God does not CALL anyone to be used and abused by some self serving false religion. Just look at the abuse of the Scientology Church that came to light...and these people still defend their abusers. It's horrible. Your constant denial of these truths, I have shown you many times, ( abused men and women held in the RCC wash houses etc) that you call an outright lie. NO actually the problem is you being in denial. Many abused women refuse to believe their abusers are abusing them....and it's sad.

You were not serving the Lord....but the Catholic CULT. Please know the difference. The Lord would never demand that from you...NEVER.
---kathr4453 on 9/20/17

Thank you StrongAxe for TRYING to explain

//She wasn't allowed to take her vows.//

I TOOK MY VOWS. Temporary Vows are the same as Final Vows except for the length of time under the Vows.

//YOU said your DR went behind your back and got you PUT OUT of the Catholic Church.//

NO I DIDN'T! ANOTHER LIE. Repost them if I did!
I wouldn't even use those words if I was. The proper term is: Excommunication.

//You still continue as a nurse AFTER being put out of the Catholic Church. YOUR WORDS.//


I worked 70 hours a week in my Religious Order in their nursing home. I am only working 40 hours a week.

That's like saying I CAN'T be a NURSE unless I work 70 hours a week
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/20/17

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Strongaxe, She wasn't allowed to take her vows. So,actually she wasn't allowed to take the final Vows after having served them 3 years as a Nurse and nun already. And continued in nursing after. The Dr. recommended time off( I guess for health reasons) which the Catholic Church denied. I personally think this was HORRIBLE. That is if Nicole is telling the whole story. Yes, churches are different that Civilian or Military. And some Churches continue to care for Pastors who need to retire for medical reasons.

Nicole said SHE REFUSED TO LISTEN, resulting in her discharge. So it may all just boil down to Nicole not being able to LISTEN and do what others asked her to do.... Which they may have seen as a problem with obedience.
---kathr4453 on 9/20/17


It sounds like Nicole_Lacey said she was put out of her religious community based on recommendations from her doctor - NOT that she was excommunicated from the Catholic church. In a protestant church, this might be a bit like a minister being forced to retire from a ministry position for health reasons, which doesn't kick him out of his denomination.
---StrongAxe on 9/20/17

You'd be surprised at the physical strength and endurance necessary in community life, Haz. This applies to ANYBODY'S religious community: Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, or Lutheran.

Nicole--I know of an Eastern Catholic priest who had to work as a pharmacist's tech, because the congregation was too small to support him. Their liturgical schedule for a few years was simply Saturday night Vespers and Sunday Divine Liturgy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/17

Changing blogs again. Nicole YOU said your DR went behind your back and got you PUT OUT of the Catholic Church. You were a Nurse 3 years prior to entering the Nunnery, and somehow because of health reasons YOU WERE PUT OUT. Your words. You still continue as a nurse AFTER being put out of the Catholic Church. YOUR WORDS.

So you are being DISINGENUOUS here by NOT being COMPLETELY honest as to WHY you were put out, ...since you stated here health reasons DO NOT disqualify.

Was it mental issues Nicole....???? That WOULD get you put out. Or are you saying you were NOT a Catholic and lied when you went in? Why were YOU discriminated against?
---kathr4453 on 9/19/17

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Your answers back like:
Weekend pastors,
Not Protestant
Bla bla Bla
Bla bla bla
Bla bla bla
has NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the question. No one ever made a comparison of religions.

Just answer the question Nicole ...without all the stupid remarks you are trying to hide behind that has nothing to do with the question....lest we start calling you Kellyanne Conway....The art of deflecting!
---kathr453 on 9/19/17

//Does the Catholic Church discriminate against people with health issues?//

There are several Religious Communities that accept sick, disable and older candidates. But you have to be Catholic FIRST!

You are CLUELESS when it comes to the Religious matters. So why don't you STOP pretending you know everything?

The Catholic Church isn't like Protestant Churches.

We don't have WEEKEND PASTORS.

Our Priests, Nuns and Brothers are FULL TIME

Acts 6:2-3 "It is NOT RIGHT for us to NEGLECT the Word of God in order to wait on tables.

//Catholic Church for putting servants OUT who have health issues.---kathr

Thinking like a Protestant. I am 100% CATHOLIC. Religion ISN'T a part time thing or a JOB.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/18/17

Great points, Luke and RichardC
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/18/17

I found out I was one of the elect when the Holy Spirit put the love of Christ in my heart. That happened April 9th 1990. Before that day, I did not love Him with all my heart, I only knew about Him.
---Luke on 9/18/17

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Accept Christ ------ Matthew 7:21 - what happen to those people ?
---RichardC on 9/15/17

I am not a strict Calvinist, however the elect are whomever accepts Jesus into their life.
---Michael on 9/13/17

He changing us to be more like Christ .

How is that not being predestinated ?

Sheep they are save but don't the are

How is that not Election ?

Ephesians 1:4

Titus 3:5
---RichardC on 9/11/17

Actually, there is also a fourth group - those who are saved but don't realize it. Matthew 25 describes a final judgment where those being judged are from the 3rd and 4th groups - the sheep who are saved (but don't know why they deserve it), and the goats who are damned (but also don't know why they deserve it). Jesus also describes the latter in Matthew 7:21-23.
---StrongAxe on 9/6/17

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You wrote: GOD only has two categories.

Yes, from God's OBJECTIVE view. But WE cannot objectively percieve reality. Those who are lost can be further subdivided into two groups: those who correctly realize they aren't saved, and those who don't, but are deluded into thinking they are. If there were only two groups, it would be easy, but because the third group exists, there are many cults who honestly believe they are saved but aren't, and who spread their delusions to many.
---StrongAxe on 9/5/17

This is an epistomological argument. People can be divided into three categories:
This is why there are so many different religions and cults.
---StrongAxe on 8/10/17

GOD only has two categories.

Mat_25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat_25:33 ...he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent "but unto" the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Luk_15:6 when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost.
---Trav on 8/31/17

"I know I am elect if God is changing me to become more like Jesus."

"Is God changing you? How do you know this?

"How can you be certain that's it not simply your own efforts at self-improvement,"

This is a good issue (c: We need to pray and make sure with God, that He is making sure He is changing us to be more and more like Jesus. His love effects our nature in His way which our own self effort can not do.

Hebrews 12:4-11 shows me how we need to keep seeking our Father to succeed in His real correction in us (c:
---Bill on 8/29/17

"There is NOTHING in Rev. 5,10 about 1000 years. Why did you tell such a falsehood?" That verse speaks of the reign of the overcomer, and where that reign takes place. The when is documented in Rev 20:4 & 6. A thousand years, as documented in Rev. 20, is a thousand years. We exist in time, the Father does not, that is what those verses you quoted mean. We must never forget that the Lord is patient, and that time is irrelevant where His patience is concerned. That's the lesson to be taken from those verses.
---joseph on 8/15/17

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\\Cluny as I've stated before, A literal millennia is documented in Rev 20 a total of six times, and documented as being on earth in Rev 20:8-9>Rev 5:10\\

God gives us not one but two warnings not to understand 1000 years as being earthly ones.

One is in the Psalter. "For a thousand years in Your sight are as nothing which has passed, or as a watch in the night."

The other is in 2 Peter. "Know this: that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day."

There is NOTHING in Rev. 5,10 about 1000 years. Why did you tell such a falsehood?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/14/17

studying how we become or as some say were predestined to be elect. I keep bumping into scripture that says other wise. Esp. under the l of the tulip which is that of limited atonement. That Jesus only died for a certain few. Just for starters John declared about Jesus "behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." Jesus died for all but we must come into agreement through faith and trust in Jesus Christ and the finished work on the cross. Some think they have a right to be called the children of God because they were chosen before the foundation of the world. But John 1:12 says "But as many as received Him to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe on His name".
---Ron on 8/11/17

Cluny as I've stated before, A literal millennia is documented in Rev 20 a total of six times, and documented as being on earth in Rev 20:8-9>Rev 5:10. The reign, or influence and control that the leader and teachers of the millennium exercise, will be over all who have never hear the gospel of Christ throughout human history. Granting them the same opportunity that He has blessed the overcomer to embrace. That's the millennia's purpose, to give them that opportunity to hear and receive the gospel, and to prepare those who died before the birth of the Christ, or never heard the gospel after He ascended, for the final deception of Satan. But even after all the instruction, there will still be those who reject it and are deceived and destroyed.
---joseph on 8/10/17

This is an epistomological argument. People can be divided into three categories:

1) The fortunate. Those who are saved (or sane, or whatever criterion you choose) and know it.
2) The unfortunate. Those who are unsaved etc. and realize this.
3) The deluded. Those who are unsaved etc. but are sufficiently deluded to not realize this.

Anyone who believes he is unsaved is clearly 2. However, anyone who firmly believes he is saved could be either 1 or 3, with no subjective way to tell the difference.

This is why there are so many different religions and cults. Many people who are 3 believe they are 1. They may have great faith, but because what they believe is wrong, it will do them no good.
---StrongAxe on 8/10/17

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20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, EVEN HIS ETERNAL POWER AND GODHEAD so that they are without excuse...Romans 1:18. If someone is seeking God by something they have seen in nature for instance, then God will hear them and once someone is spurned onward to seek God they will continue searching if their heart is right, and God will eventually lead them to someone who can teach them about Christ. Through our own faith we can believe that God will not allow that person to perish before they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (see Anna and Simeon in Luke).
---Tim on 8/10/17

God makes the Gospel available to all, its our responsibility to accept or reject
Psalm 98:2 The LORD hath made known his salvation: his righteousness hath he openly shewed in the sight of the heathen.
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
---michael_e on 8/10/17

Romans 2:11-15 explains further."For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law...For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law,these,having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another". If we truly believe that God is all powerful, all knowing, then our faith helps us believe that God will lead those who have not heard the gospel to someone who can teach them.
---Tim on 8/10/17

Many view those who don't hear the Gospel as being lost automatically.

But I and others when we read Romans 2. See that the Grace of GOD is extended to those who love GOD but lack knowledge. They show they love GOD and love others. But they have not heard the gospel.

GOD will judge them on their hearts. His Grace is sufficient for all.

This is my and many others understanding. Not everyone agrees.

GOD is love.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/10/17

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joseph, there is no such thing as a literal earthly millennium.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/10/17

Michael E - Joseph - Gentlemen : I think you both miss the mark ! The Question ?
If a person has never heard the Word of God, How can that person be saved ? This has happen over the years - into Today ! ( If Salvation is for All ) or Gods Elect being the All ? Was it Gods plan for some not to Hear ?
---RichardC on 8/9/17

"So how can the gift of Salvation be for All? "
The millennia will be a time of teaching. "It is written in the prophets, And they shall all (everyone, everyman) be taught of God [through, I believe, those who will reign with Him as kings (leaders), and priest (teachers) during that time]. Many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." The only people excluded from life during the millennia are those who damned themselves, in this life, by blatenly rejected the salvation offer though Jesus.
---joseph on 8/9/17

It is mans responsibility to choose.
God gave man a choice in the garden when Adam chose to rebel and suffered death. Later all but eight chose to ignore the warnings of Noah and died in a worldwide flood. The whole earth with one voice chose not God at the tower of Babel, and later God separated only one man and his family from the idolatrous world.
We are ambassadors representing God and his message of reconciliation to a majority that long ago chose not to accept him.
---michael_e on 8/9/17

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It's Man's responsibility to choose ?

Romans 10:17 - So Faith comes from hearing and hearing of the word of God.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace ye are saved through Faith : and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God :

Ephesians 2:9 - Not of works, lest any man should boast,

In todays world is probably the best chance of hearing the Word of God, I read even today the percentage of people that have not heard or the Bible is vast, In the past, many never heard the Word , So how can the gift of Salvation be for All ?

2 Corinthians - 5:17

Romans - 8:16
---RichardC on 8/8/17

I found election to be a Bible doctrine, but Calvinism was not.
Biblical election concerns God choosing Christ to die for the sins responsible to mans account. God chose to create man. Man chose to reject God. God chose to die for man. It is now mans responsibility to choose.
---michael_e on 8/4/17

While not a Calvinist. I have found two groups in Calvinism. The older group like the Puritans saw their works and living for Jesus as proof they were among the elect.

As one Calvinist writer put it. As a follower of Christ it is my desire to live for Jesus and to not sin.

But since then there have been others. Who believe once you accept Jesus you cannot commit sins. So anything you do is okay. Even if the world thinks it is a sin.

---Samuelbb7 on 8/4/17

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