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America's Historical Monuments

Is tearing down America's historical monuments wrong?

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 ---Jerry6593 on 8/23/17
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Kathr, according to your logic, since the Protestants RAN the South during Slavery, that means PROTESTANTS BELIEVED IN SLAVERY?

StrongAxe, Nazi lunch programs had severe codes to pass. The caloric was TOO low (Nazi's camps) esp. teenage boys. No energy for sports. Kids begged, Michelle refused. (Nazi's work camps)
Parent's sent lunches which went through INSPECTION FIRST. Cafeteria Workers took pictures of the trash sending to the News Media. Cafeteria Monitors placed to stop pictures (Nazi's Guards)

Federal threaten to cut aid, when Schools complained.

At the end the Kid got FATTER. WHY? Because they eat junk food during breaks and after school. Less activity. Because of ONE WOMAN! BTW, her children ATE GREAT at school.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/6/17


So Jerry, are you saying the Catholic Church is socialistic and that is why they are failing to feed the poor in Latin America. SO in America the Catholic Church is Capitalists? Or are you saying the ability of any church to feed the poor actually depends on the GOVERNMENT after all?

So then actually no church without the Government can feed the poor...correct? So way back when, before Calvinism led to capitalism, ( that's a fact) did the church also fail to feed the poor? There was no Capitalism during Jesus time WHEN he commanded the Church to take care of the food needs of the whole world. How do you reconcile the discrepancy here?
---kathr4453 on 9/6/17


Jerry6593:

You wrote: I can tell you why in one word - SOCIALISM. Both Argentina and Venezuela were highly prosperous countries until they became Communist Dictatorships. Socialism ruins economies and starves people whenever and wherever it is tried. Don't believe it? Look at N. Korea, Cuba, etc.

You confuse socialism and communism. All communist countries (like the ones you mentioned) are socialist, but not all socialist countries are communist. Learn the difference. Sweden is socialist and is doing just fine.


Haz27:

If Hitler's party is Nazis, then why are all the people who ACTUALLY identify as Nazis, neo-Nazis, and white supremacists in America today Trump-loving Republicans?
---StrongAxe on 9/6/17


Kathr: "Looks like they are FAILING in Latan [sic] American countries. Why?"

I can tell you why in one word - SOCIALISM. Both Argentina and Venezuela were highly prosperous countries until they became Communist Dictatorships. Socialism ruins economies and starves people whenever and wherever it is tried. Don't believe it? Look at N. Korea, Cuba, etc.


---Jerry6593 on 9/6/17


Nicole, places without unions have OSHA, who oversee safety in the workplace......

I actually think HEALTHY school lunches were a fabulous idea, since the crap food lobbiests are more favored by the republicans pushing crap food on kids. And yes we have an obesity issue, starting with children and the crap foods they are given.

But to use the term NAZI only shows your hateful moronic spewing of hate that is showing off just how IGNORANT PEOPLE argue ....by all these colorful adjectives they like to throw in that they think makes them look more intelligent .....IT DOESNT. It makes you look the opposite.

Since schools ARE government run, why not make the lunches healthy? Are you REALLY a nurse Nicole? You LIKE obesity?
---kathr4453 on 9/6/17




AXE. You have stayed too long in the deceitful Left's echo chamber.

Try reading the book by academic Dinesh D'Sousa titled:
The Big Lie. Exposing the NAZI Roots of the American Left".

The DEMs and Hitler's NAZI's shared much in common.
---Haz27 on 9/6/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: How quickly you have forgotten Mrs. Obama Nazi's lunch food rules.

Nazi?! How so? "Nazi" has certain specific meanings, not just "some people that I hate". Did she put school administrators in death camps? Please elaborate. She wanted schools to serve healthy lunches to children. Under Reagan, his administration saved money by declaring ketchup a vegetable.
---StrongAxe on 9/5/17


FACT:

Latin America food and nutrition:
Food and Nutrition insecurity can be dangerous and life threatening. It can cause a country to become uncivilized and can spread world epidemics. Malnutrition is a major contributor to food and nutrition insecurity. It counts for over a million casualties in Latin America every 2 years. Many people go hungry and starve to death, many others are homeless and can not get nutritional and well-balanced meals as those with money, and many have just enough money to pay the bills let alone being barely able to pay for a well-balanced and nutritional meal for their whole family.


Isn't this predominantly Catholic Territory? Looks like they are FAILING in Latan American countries. Why?
---kathr4453 on 9/5/17


StrongAxe, don't be ridiculous. You can't sell enough cookies! The Catholic Church takes STRAIGHT DONATION for cancer treatment.

We are NOT malnourished due to the lack of food but because of TOO MUCH FOOD. America has the FATTY people in the world.

How quickly you have forgotten Mrs. Obama Nazi's lunch food rules.

Christian Countries lead in the most donation among the richest, middle class and poorest citizens than non-Christian Countries.

Their richest, middle and poorest people depend on us to feed their neighbors.

Kathr, Unions are NOT Government held office. So your example doesn't apply.

Yours argument is that Government is needed to PREVENT the women lockups.

YOU JUST MADE MY POINT.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/5/17


Nicole_Lacey:

I have asked you several times how many church bake sales it would take to pay for a single person's cancer treatment, but you have yet to answer.

Not in America. Too many Christians.

Google: America malnutrition

I CAN show you non-majority Christian Countries that DEPENDS on Christian countries to feed their citizens. Even Muslims ran Countries.

This is because the donors are rich first-world countries, NOT necessarily because they are Christian countries.
---StrongAxe on 9/5/17




First you said lack of government is the reason for women being locked up washing clothes now you blame the Catholic Church, which is it?
When you make up your mind tell me.

Let me inform you that NOT one organization has done more for the poor than the Catholic Church. Not one!

If you disagree name the one? Not even the United States of America. No one.

BTW, Protestant Preachers have molested children more than priests. A lot more!

//The Church is not responsible for feeding the world.//

Yes She is, because She obeys Jesus.

//scripture demands Christians to,be exclusively responsible for the needs of the world .---kathr

Matthew 25:35-36 and John 13:35 Join us. Plenty of poor people.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/5/17


The Triangle Shirtwaste Factory fire:

Because the owners had locked the doors to the stairwells and exits a then-common practice to prevent workers from taking unauthorized breaks and to reduce theft[7] many of the workers who could not escape from the burning building simply jumped from the high windows. The fire led to legislation requiring improved factory safety standards and helped spur the growth of the International Ladies' Garment Workers' Union (ILGWU), which fought for better working conditions for sweatshop workers.


So very tired of Nicole calling this a lie. Under Trump, we are headed back to these kinds of working conditions in the USA.
---kathr4453 on 9/5/17


Nicole, if the Catholic Church was so,wonderful about taking care of the poor as you said here, ( we did it) history says otherwise. Women were imprisioned into wash houses and the poor was horribly exploited by the Catholic Church. No one wants to see that horrible mess again....leading to child molestation ,and mass graves of murdered babies like was found in Ireland, supposedly helping those POOR FOLKS and poor girls in trouble. Let's not EVER go there again.

The Church is not responsible for feeding the world. The Church does not have the means to do that exclusively. Yes, they certainly can and do help, however, what verse in scripture demands Christians to,be exclusively responsible for the needs of the world .
---kathr4453 on 9/5/17


//Without government assistance, many starve.//

Not in America. Too many Christians.

StrongAxe: If the church can't do its job, somebody has to.//

We did and still doing it. The Government isn't more charitable than Christians!

I CAN show you non-majority Christian Countries that DEPENDS on Christian countries to feed their citizens. Even Muslims ran Countries.

Kathr, when did ANYONE claim it is was okay to lock up women to work? Making stuff up.

Protecting puddled water holes makes a lot of sense.?

Using the 'Clean water Act' to threaten Farmers of child abuse all because their kids has to do chores on the farm makes sense as well?

I worked On my Grandfather's farm and it DIDN'T KILL ME!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/4/17


AXE. The Left create poverty, starvation, etc to begin with. Step out of Leftist echo chamber to see reality.
Left creates the problems, then Leftists like you argue REPs are evil for trying to fix it. LOL.

The Left are renowned as liars, just as in Orwell's 1984 2+2=5. Left say there's multiple genders, same gender can marry, etc.

The U.K example from ex Leftist politician is relevant. Many Leftists throughout the West are self (white race) loathing.

Trump will not be able to stop the chaos that Jesus prophesied (Matt 24:21,22). But fact remains it's clearly the Left who undermine presidency through their control of deep state, the Left's Fake News media, and their Fascist thugs like ANTIFA, BLM, etc.
---Haz27 on 9/4/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Without government assistance, many starve. If the church can't do its job, somebody has to. If this is a Christian nation, shouldn't it espouse Christian values, and feed the poor?

Prefixing arguments with "how a Leftist thinks" is a logical fallacy (e.g. "Leftists say 2+2=4. Leftists are always wrong. Therefore, 2+2 does not equal 4."). Double for "you are not black".

Haz27: As above, but more so. Nicole does not always think in black-and-white terms, but you ALWAYS seem to. Not EVERYTHING is left-vs-right. Learn more nuanced thinking.

The U.K. has problems, but NOBODY here has discussed them.

Trump's OWN WORDS undermine his presidency, with no help from others.
---StrongAxe on 9/4/17


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Nicole, Listen, if the government didn't get involved, women would still be locked in companies like the Triangle Shirtwaste Factory without laws to protect them. CO. do not look out for the welfare of their employees ( on their own) AND now that Trump is doing away with the EPA, and some of Obama' GOOD COMMON SENSE LAWS, Houston can rebuild again over their wetlands cheaper and more carelessly than ever, .........and let's see who foots the bill on this one and the next.....

Without our EPA laws, ETC, ( and other laws) Trump wants to turn us into a third world country so the big Corporations can get rich off the next generation of NEW SLAVES, living in Corporate owned homes( like the miners ) ...and we see where that has ended.
---kathr4453 on 9/4/17


//but more oversite means more Government or state jobs...//

That's how a Leftist thinks how over site operates.

Over sites are done by Non-Government or it isn't TRUE over site.

//Doing away with it because of crooks.........well, we will always have crooks//

Again the only way Leftist think.

Do you really believe that before the Federal Government there wasn't any Charity Agencies?

I don't know about your Church, but the Catholic Church ran hospitals, clinics, soup kitchens, orphanages, house and barn buildings and I can go on and on.

No where in the Bible did Jesus commanded us to RELY on the Government to feed the poor.

He said for you and I to feed the poor.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/3/17


AXE. I'll help you out as you're unwilling to think beyond the Left's cognitive straitjacket.

Dictionary definition of racism: "belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race".

A recent speech by former Leftist party politician in UK accurately described how Leftists suffer from a self (white race) loathing, where they denigrate whites as inferior to other races. That is racism which you conveniently shut your eyes to, because it's the PC Left thing to do.

BTW, it's your Leftist comrades who undermine the presidency. Consider the constant lies from Left's Fake News media, & Leftists in deep state too.
---Haz27 on 9/3/17


Kathr, I had powdered and canned milk before. Again, WHO WANTS DRY MILK ON THEIR CEREAL???

//come back and bla bla bla about other nonsense.---kathr4453

Maybe if you knew a little about the subject you could keep up.

Again, the recipients do not make the rules! Government Officials make up the rules.

Ex: If you have 2 kids and making so much a month you get $500 food stamps. 5 kids you get $1000.

Understand?

StrongAxe, I am sorry because I can't find the post of you acknowledging that Fremont was in Settle.

I always give a direct response to your statements.

If I harp on it 3 times it is because you keep denying it 3 times.

If you did apologize I am SORRY I didn't see it.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/3/17


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Haz27:

I wrote: How can one be racist against their own race?

You wrote: When they're a Leftist.

If you don't like people who are the same race as you, that is prejudice, NOT racism. Please consult a dictionary for what racism ACTUALLY means before attempting to discuss the subject.

"Some horrible people are leftists" does not imply "all leftists are horrible people", any more than
"some fruits are red" implies "all red things are fruits". Please learn Logic 101 before attempting to make logical inferences.

The U.S. presidency is being undermined by a president who constantly violates his oath of office, and the constitutional requirements thereof.
---StrongAxe on 9/3/17


Seriously Nicole, you actually think you sprinkle dry aka powdered milk on cereal. No actually Nicole, you add water to powdered/ dry milk to make milk. It doesn't spoil AND IT IS ALLOWED ON WIC FOR MILK.

Like I was saying, the problem isn't with the government, but with SOME people, ....who can't read, don't read or even see Strongaxe quite some time ago corrected himself yet YOU fail to see that or comprehend that OR think your winning an argument bu ignoring that.

And THEN you feel you have to come back and bla bla bla about other nonsense.
---kathr4453 on 9/3/17


AXE. How can one be racist against their own race?

Answer: When they're a Leftist.

The Left are quite an evil bunch. Racist, Fascist, terrorists, and genocidal totalitarians, as the Leftists Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc proved.

And we see the totalitarian Left once again flexing its muscle through its Fascist racist domestic terrorist gangs like ANTIFA & BLM, through their ever deceitful Fake News media, and through the deep state that constantly undermines the presidency.
---Haz27 on 9/2/17


Nicole_Lacey:

I said Fremont, not Seattle. You corrected me on it. Then you complained about it a second time. I admitted I was wrong and wondered why you were going after it twice. Now you're harping on it a third time. How many times do I have to apologize before you'll give it a rest? How much blog space are we going to have to waste about you repeatedly choking on this gnat? Please move on already.

I NEVER said the statue was ERECTED to mock Lenin. I specifically said it was originally to REVERE him. However, I also said it was REPURPOSED when it was transferred to Fremont. What purpose the American buyer had was irrelevant. What matters is what the people who actually put it up in Fremont wanted with it.
---StrongAxe on 9/2/17


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Who puts dry milk in their cereal?

I am talking about the WIC program today. If you want to use the any part of the voucher you have to take EVERYTHING on it or NONE of it. The ONLY 2 choices given to the Recipients today.

My problem with the programs, but with the Government RUNNING them.

Recipients didn't make the rules. The Government did.
I am not calling Recipients dishonest, but the Government dishonest.

StrongAxe, all Latinos are not the SAME the Race.

USA defines any persons from Central/Latin and West Indies: Hispanic.

MORE Black Africans were sent to Latin America (mostly Brazil) as Slaves than any other Country in the world.

United States STILL calls their descendants 'Latinos'.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/2/17


Nicole, I do know on WIC you can buy dry milk....and you don't have to use the milk voucher Ifyou don't need it. I see the problem is with either dishonest people or ignorant receptients. Also look at all those DR is Florida who ripped off Medicare for billions. Does that mean we do away with Medicare for the people? The people who use Medicare Medicade are not the ones ripping off the Government. It is educated professionals.

No, but more oversite means more Government or state jobs.....

Doing away with it because of crooks.........well, we will always have crooks... WE didn't do away with our Government and a president because of Richard Nixon....but we may be closing many loopholes because of Trump.
---kathr4453 on 9/2/17


StrongAxe: Which is it?

Neither

I am upset with your purposely WRONG interpretation of the article in Wikipedia.

1st you claim Fremont isn't in Settle.

Wikipedia STATES Fremont is a neighbor in Settle.

2nd you claim the statue was erected to mock Lenin.

Wikipedia states ...The statue was constructed by Bulgarian sculptor Emil Venkov under a 1981 commission from the COMMUNIST Party of Czechoslovakia...The statue was taken down following the Velvet Revolution of 1989.

Next they state HOW it came to America. 'Quietly by an American.' (Most likely a Communist)

Finally Wikipedia states how some Vandals are treating the statues and WHY. So they QUOTE Knute Berger as the SPOKEPERSON of Vandals.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/2/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Why should I criticize Mexico, North Korea, or any other country? I don't expect other countries to live up to our standards. I DO expect America to do so.

How can Mexico possibly deny Americans from doing anything in America? If you mean "they are taking our jobs", note that the kinds of jobs Mexicans typically take (maids, picking fruit, etc.) are ones most Americans don't want. Due to crackdowns on illegals, California harvests are rotting in the fields because nobody is there to pick them. Plenty of jobs there that Americans don't want.

How can one Latino be RACIST to another Latino? They are the same race! It may be prejudice, but it's NOT racial prejudice.
---StrongAxe on 9/2/17


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//Trump wants to build a wall - even though the number of Mexicans in the U.S. is DECLINING.---StrongAxe

Because FINALLY someone is taking our LAWS seriously.

BTW, not all Illegals are Mexicans. Many are Central Americans.

Mexico has a WALL at it's southern border. They are NOT trying to keep it's citizens from leaving, (i.e. NO NORTHERN WALL) but from others entering their Country.

Also, where is your criticism towards Mexico?

Mexico is denying other Americans from getting jobs in the USA. They know that the people just want to CROSS THROUGH their land to get to the United States.

But nooooo, the Mexican Government is so greedy and racist to the other Latin Americans denying them the American Dream.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/2/17


Nicole_Lacey:

That I was precise does not mean I was incorrect. You already brought that issue up before. Why do so again?

How stupid do you think I am?

Read the article. Femont did NOT set it up to revere Lenin. The people there mock it recularly by painting its hands red, or putting a ball of aluminum in its hand to resemble a burrito or a joint.

And you blended sentences together out of context.

The 125 word limit requires severe scrunching on almost every post.

Next it speaks about the IDIOTS who vandal the statue.

So mocking the statue is wrong, but taking the statue at face value because it glorifies communism is also wrong? Which is it?
---StrongAxe on 9/2/17


Kathr, the Government gives MORE food stamps the SAME month the baby is born. In additional to food stamps they get weekly WIC Vouchers (Women, infant and children) which has baby formula. WHY?

The voucher gives you fruit, cereal, cheese products and milk by the gallon.

If by the 2nd week you still have plenty of milk, but need the fruit, it doesn't MATTER. You have to take EVERYTHING on the voucher!

Some Bureaucrat made that RULE because of some lobbyist.

That stuff ISN'T FREE to the Tax payer.

BTW, since you brought it up, people do breast feed and SELL the baby formula. NO OVER SITE!
That's what happens when Government gets involved. Private nonprofit can do better. Except for The Clinton Foundation.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/1/17


//same Wikipedia article//

Why did you write this: ***...used as an object of awe to Fremont (not Seattle)

?? The Article states Fremont is a neighborhood of Seattle.

Next you give your own personal erroneous summary of the article.

//The statue, as purchased and set up in Fremont, was re-purposed as quirky art and a mockery of communism.---StrongAxe

How stupid do you think I am?

Wikipedia doesn't use the word 'mockery'. And you blended sentences together out of context.

Wikipedia states how the Lenin statue got to Seattle. Next it speaks about the IDIOTS who vandal the statue.

Wikipedia quotes Knute "Skip" Berger a Journalist based in Seattle, Washington on behalf of the Vandals!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/1/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: I don't know where you are getting your information?

From the same Wikipedia article you were looking at.

Because it isn't mockery as Wikipedia states:

The statue, as originally made in Czechoslovakia, was a tribute to Lenin. The statue, as purchased and set up in Fremont, was re-purposed as quirky art and a mockery of communism.

Communism isn't an idea it is a NIGHTMARE!

Yes, it is.

Walls are needed to KEEP people inside.

Yet Trump wants to build a wall - even though the number of Mexicans in the U.S. is DECLINING.
---StrongAxe on 8/31/17


StrongAxe: That statue represents American Triumphalism - moving it from Chechoslovakia, where it was used as an object of awe to Fremont (not Seattle),//

I don't know where you are getting your information?

Wikipedia states Fremont is a NEIGHBORHOOD of Seattle. That means it is in Seattle.

//How is mocking communists against this country's values?//

Because it isn't mockery as Wikipedia states:

***Venkov intended to portray Lenin as a bringer of revolution, in contrast to the traditional portrayals of Lenin as a philosopher and educator.-- Wikipedia

Communism isn't an idea it is a NIGHTMARE! Walls are needed to KEEP people inside.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/31/17


No actual history is actual and NOT depended on HOW people wish to remember it or not.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/31/17

You have way too much energy invested in this.

Monuments are not history. The history is the actual battles and the men who served. History is remembered by the individuals who participated, by the friends and family they told, and by the families who sent their men. It is also remembered by the reporters who saw and wrote of what they saw.

I am not discussing the rewriting of history. I am discussing the actual statues and effigies erected. These monuments do not change history one way or another. Putting up a monument does not change history, just as taking one down does not change history.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/31/17


AXE. You've missed the point. The Fascist Left has become even more abusive and violent than over the past few decades.

The vandalism of monuments in USA and Australia is just one example of the many different fronts that the Fascist Left are attacking on.

In Australia conservatives are now being bullied by the deceitful Left, LGBT activists about an upcoming vote on same gender marriage.

Even the Left's Fake News media here deceitfully portrayed LGBT as victims by copying a anti LGBT poster from overseas and then showing it on the news as an Australian conservative attack against LGBT marriage.
Sadly even the PC political leaders used this fake news as an excuse to attack those against LGBT marriage.
---Haz27 on 8/31/17


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//Monuments are not history. They are just symbols of a history that someone wants to remember.//

???? Please read your statement again. It's still is History. Tell me of a monument of known fictional characters. Not including pagan gods. People in history truly believed the gods were real.

//Actual history is something else and how it is remembered is up to individuals.---Mark_Eaton

No actual history is actual and NOT depended on HOW people wish to remember it or not.

My mom is from Alabama and I know about their feelings about the Confederacy.

If you are an American it is your history as well. That's like people saying 'Trump isn't my President.'

We don't speak about England's history as our history.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/31/17


Suppose the people are honestly wrong on the purpose of the monuments?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/30/17

Monuments are not history. They are just symbols of a history that someone wants to remember.

Actual history is something else and how it is remembered is up to individuals.

I have lived in NC for 25 years. I am originally from an area of the country where Generals Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan were from. When I first came to NC, I heard a lot about us "Yankees" coming down south. And if I told them where I was originally from, it would start arguments.

People here choose to keep the Confederacy in their hearts. It is their history. But don't ask me to support it.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/31/17


Kathr: "Here's a question. IF taking down the 10 Commandments on Government property because it is against the Constitution"

Here is an answer. The Ten Commandments on Government property is NOT against the Constitution! It is only against the feelings of Marxist judges. The First Amendment to the Constitution not only includes the "establishment clause", but also the "prohibition clause", as: "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof". Try to explain how the Ten Commandments can be displayed all over the Supreme Court building if it can't be displayed outside a local courthouse.


---Jerry6593 on 8/31/17


Nicole_Lacey:

The First Amendment lets anyone erect statues on their own land at their own expense. What is at issue is statues on PUBLIC land at PUBLIC expense.

That statue represents American Triumphalism - moving it from Chechoslovakia, where it was used as an object of awe to Fremont (not Seattle), where it is seen merely as a piece of artistic quirkiness and mockery. The hands get painted red to mock the bloodthirstiness of his regime. A burrito-shaped piece of aluminum is put in his hand. How is mocking communists against this country's values?

I was taught about Lee in school, and that he was a good man.


Haz27 + Jerry6593:

Vandalism is not right. The people, through their government, should decide.
---StrongAxe on 8/31/17


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What about the monument to Lenin outside of a mall in Seattle?

An actual statue from Russia reused by an Artist.

People actually protested to take it down, but the LEFT said we mean it ironically.
So the monument still stands today.

So it's okay in a Capitalist Country display a Communist who killed his own people.
Even though Communist has NEVER been part of this Country. Why?

BTW, Settle is a DEEP Democrat City. The State is a Democrat strong hold.

It seems the Democrats are ALWAYS against it's own Country's Values.

No matter the issue, the Democrats can be found on the wrong side.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/30/17


It's spread here to Australia also. The Fascist Left vandalizing monuments, etc, to further their divisive agenda.
---Haz27 on 8/30/17


All people should have a voice in whether or not they are removed - not just a band of criminal thugs.
---Jerry6593 on 8/30/17

I agree. My exact sentiments.

Our governor has made a statement that he desires all the Confederate monuments removed from government property. That is his opinion, not law. Can he arbitrarily remove them?

No, it requires a repeal of 2015 Law. Only the Legislature can begin to remove the monuments. They represent the people and are our voice.

For us in NC, this same Legislature that passed the 2015 law is unlikely to author a bill to repeal it or to give Governor Cooper anything he wants.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/30/17


//What people want to remember changes over time, and our monuments should reflect that. Perhaps people no longer want to remember the War between the States--Mark_Eaton

But is that fair? History isn't according to people's feelings.

Suppose the people are honestly wrong on the purpose of the monuments?

I was taught about all the evils of Robert E. Lee by progressive Teachers in the 80's. The Teachers chose not to teach the good things he did with Black people AFTER the war. I had to find out that information as an adult,

We are a forgiving Nation. If people KNEW the real Robert E. Lee they might understand the monuments better.

The the present people shouldn't deny future people their history the good and bad
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/30/17


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Mark E: "No, provided, it is done according to the law."

The National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, as amended establishes a program for the preservation of historic properties throughout the United States. ... The Historic Sites Act of 1935 establishes as a national policy to preservation for public use of historic sites, buildings and objects.

Numerous Presidential Executive Orders (of both stripes) also prohibit such criminal activity.

It is as if we are no longer a nation of laws. These monuments belong to the people. All people should have a voice in whether or not they are removed - not just a band of criminal thugs.


---Jerry6593 on 8/30/17


Is tearing down America's historical monuments wrong?
---Jerry6593 on 8/23/17

No, provided, it is done according to the law.

Monuments are memorials to something people want to remember. What people want to remember changes over time, and our monuments should reflect that. Perhaps people no longer want to remember the War between the States. But to break the law to remove the monuments is wrong.

I live in NC. I live right on the border of NC and SC, but I purposefully chose to live in NC because SC was flying the Star & Bars over the State Capital and I see that flag as a traitorous symbol. SC has since stopped flying the Stars & Bars over the State Capital and I am happy about it.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/29/17


1. The Statue was taken down in 1776. England surrendered in 1781.

2. IRONICALLY, some Sons of Liberty ORDERED African Slaves to toppled the statue for them. They just sawed the statue which was melted for bullets.

But you can still see the pedestals and scraps TODAY. YES, parts of it is still around. In fact a man has reconstructed the statue from it's base last year. It will be displayed in a museum.

New York Times wrote about it in the 'Long-Toppled Statue of King George III to Ride Again, From a Brooklyn Studio by David Dunlap.

NO Generation has the RIGHT to decide that another Generation should ONLY know their history through 'SUBJECTIVE' means instead of 'OBJECTIVE'.

NOBODY! not even ANTIFA
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/29/17


Thanks Jerry, have you ever heard of Jones County of Mississippi and the 'Free State of Jones'?
Including the 'Twenty Negro Law' passed by the Confederate government?

Democrats invented the draft. But if you own twenty Slaves you were exempt.

YouTube has a film called the 'Free State of Jones' if ANYONE wants to know more about the REAL Democrats.

Newton Knight and the Knight company had taken effective control from the Confederate government in the county. The followers of Knight raised an American flag over the courthouse in Ellisville, and sent a letter to Union General William T. Sherman declaring Jones County's independence from the Confederacy. July 1864..Jones County had seceded from the Confederacy.-- Wikipedia
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/29/17


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Here's a question. IF taking down the 10 Commandments on Government property because it is against the Constitution, is OK, why not these Monuments to those who committed treason against the United States? Also, when we won the Revolution, no one had a problem beheading King George' Statue and removing it along with other monuments to England or removing that part of American History. Have we FORGOTTEN our history because King George's Monuments is no longer visible? Im sure even after the Revolutionary War there were still those loyal to the King....but got over it. We should at least give them a Monument to Benedict Arnold they can secretly worship, all the while pretending it is for History's sake.
---kathr4453 on 8/29/17


There were colonial people who felt it was ok to kill the sons of British mommies and daddies. And not all colonials believed in that. So, if it is ok to kill people, for the sake of what you want, I suppose taking down a statue is not much, in comparison with killing people.

But it would be a waste of my time.

"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

It is possible that neither way is right, if wrong people have their agenda, for and against the statues. Both sides of a fight might not be right (c:
---Bill on 8/29/17


Jerry6593:

You wrote: libtards and snowflakes

Yet again, you show that you cannot discuss without giving into the temptation to stoop to cheap personal attacks.

But now the libtards assert that you are a victim while I am white-privileged.

Nobody here said either of those things, so why do you both harp on it to us?

The cry-baby tantrums of liberal snowflakes are music to my ears.

Rejoicing in other people's pain is schadenfreude, which is NOT a Christian virtue.
---StrongAxe on 8/27/17


Nicole: You are a true American patriot. You and I come from similar backgrounds, having grown up in the deep south and as poor as church mice. But we both worked hard, educated ourselves, and worked hard to achieve success in a professional environment - the American dream.

But now the libtards assert that you are a victim while I am white-privileged. Go figure. How can two similar stories arise from such disparate causes? Only the in the minds of race-baiting liberals can such cognitive dissonance exist.

Keep up the good work. The cry-baby tantrums of liberal snowflakes are music to my ears.



---Jerry6593 on 8/27/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

When did any of us every say YOU were a victim? I never did.

I don't know why you, Kathr and StongAxe want to CHANGE the subject when you all are proven wrong.

We have not been proven wrong.


Jerry6593:

There is no question about Lee's competence or his character - merely his life choices (i.e. to led an army of a government committing treason).
---StrongAxe on 8/26/17


Jerry, you are right, but I might convince someone on CN.

//You're not truly free if you're not allowed to return to the place you call home.--StrongAxe

??? If Democrats take control of Alabama and ran it as before I am LEAVING! They can have Alabama. Live free or DIE!

I am harping on this because I am SICK of WHITE LIBERALS telling me I am a VICTIM!

I AM NOT A VICTIM! I am capable of looking at my OWN LIVE and my surroundings to realize it is a privileged and grace to live in America.

God bless you Pg1 and Kathr
If you don't want to speak about political topics just don't comment on political blogs.

I don't know why you, Kathr and StongAxe want to CHANGE the subject when you all are proven wrong.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/26/17


FWIW, General Lee did not believe in either slavery or secession. After the war, he was the only white person in the congregation to kneel beside a black man to receive Communion.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/26/17


Amen kathr4453
---Pg1 on 8/26/17


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Nicole: You will never convince the left-leaning historical revisionists that their position is false because it is always based on current "feelings" rather than an honest assessment of the historical atmosphere.

Most of the liberal snowflakes who want to tear down the statue of Robert E. Lee are unaware that, as the greatest military leader in American history, he was Lincoln's first choice to lead the Northern Army. He declined in view of Lincoln's having violated the 10th Amendment to the Constitution.

Several of the Northern generals would be tried today for war crimes for their rape of the South.


---Jerry6593 on 8/26/17


I'm with Pg1 here. It's apparent FOX news is not only RCC but it also just brought something to mind. Exactly WHAT is their agenda? That the RCC will inherit the earth ?..Which is dominion reconstruction theology. And how AMERICA is going to reconstruct the world.....Think about it, ...why are some of you making the Republican Party and NATIONALISM your God? I saw all this coming in the 80's when the Moral Majority joined forces with Falwell.......and look how Fallwell JR now defends anything BUT Christian values. TRUE Christian values replaced with NATIONALISM disguised as Christian values. HOGWASH!

Yet to the Born Again Christian, OUR CITIZENSHIP is in Heaven, NOT HERE. Keep your eyes on things ABOVE ....not on things below.
---kathr4453 on 8/26/17


Yes, I am repeating what are said to be historical facts. I was also trying to give him some grace as most suggest she was closer to 14. You are good at always making everything about republicans and democrats. Thou shalt have no other gods... That includes the Republican party. My post was about Lincoln and his motives. I guess that is your go to place when you try to defend the indefensible.
I am done because the fact that you are trying to justify Jefferson is making me ill. God bless you.
---Pg1 on 8/25/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: They didn't have to return to America

You're not truly free if you're not allowed to return to the place you call home.

Republicans became a party in 1854 for the SOLE purpose of FREEING SLAVES.

Again and again, harping on what people over 150 years ago did. The Republican party toady is worlds apart from the Republicans of 1854, and the Democratic party today is worlds apart from the Democrats of 1854. Stop living in the past, and address issues that ACTUALLY affect us TODAY. I have yet to hear you wax poetic about the halcyon days of the Catholic church with their Inquisition. Presumably you prefer the Catholic church of today over that of yesteryear? Why the inconsistency?
---StrongAxe on 8/25/17


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//you trust a people's ideology to select which statues are erected//

YUP! The statue doesn't change over time.

Books in Libraries are ALWAYS changed. Who gets to decide the books?

//any examples of any Nazi-era statues perserved by the government?--StrongAxe

Online:
'HOW DID GERMANY REBUILD AFTER WORLD WAR II?'
by The Aleppo Project on October 15, 2015

..In Cologne there was a relatively small building that was the headquarters of the Gestapo where they killed and tortured people. In the 1970s, it was turned into a museum about Cologne in the Nazi era and they have small exhibits there and an archive and library. PEOPLE can GO THERE and find materials it acknowledges that it was a GESTAPO building.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/17


//Sally Hemings...was between the ages of 14 and 16 when Jefferson made her his slave concubine.//

You are repeating words from a Richmond Political Journalist, James T. Callender

15 most believe. So was Jesus' mother.

Sally was in France for 2yrs and spoke fluent French. She could have stayed in France. Remember any Slave that entered France was automatically FREED upon entry. They didn't have to return to America

//Slaves were not freed because it was the moral thing to do. Lincoln had other motives that were self serving.---pg1

Republicans became a party in 1854 for the SOLE purpose of FREEING SLAVES.

So what was Democrat's excuse to FIGHT to keep Slaves?
They were willing to DIE to keep Slaves?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: StrongAxe, I don't trust a people's ideology to select the library books. Have you heard of the libraries in North Korea?

Yet you trust a people's ideology to select which statues are erected.

The German Government has that covered. They preserved EVERYTHING!

Did you actually look up the law I quoted? It's ILLEGAL to show ANYTHING showing symbols of the Nazi era. Do you actually have any examples of any Nazi-era statues perserved by the government? If so, please SHOW them.

Hitler's Bunker is buried under a parking lot. Hitler's birth home was expropriated under Eminent Domain and remodeled so it can't be recognized and used as a shrine. PLEASE do some RESEARCH.
---StrongAxe on 8/25/17


Nicole_lacey,

First, Sally Hemings was not a woman. History suggests that she was between the ages of 14 and 16 when Jefferson made her his slave concubine.

Second, Slaves were not freed because it was the moral thing to do. Lincoln had other motives that were self serving.
---pg1 on 8/25/17


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StrongAxe, I don't trust a people's ideology to select the library books. Have you heard of the libraries in North Korea?

//We could have billboards showing us that people smoke//

No we can't because the GOVERNMENT BANNED them. Thank you for proving my point!

//Showing Nazi symbols is ILLEGAL there.//

The German Government has that covered. They preserved EVERYTHING!

You can go to the the SS's headquarters, Hitler's bunker, houses and many other NAZI stuff.

//Destroying other people's property is illegal and reprehensible although sometimes understandable---StrongAxe

Spoken as a TRUE LEFTIST

NO IT ISN'T!! Let's see how UNDERSTANDING you are when some Green Idiot Person BURNS DOWN your car!
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/17


Jerry, I believe removing these monuments is a local and state government decision. If the people in that area VOTED to have them placed somewhere else then so be it. That is what happened in Charlottesville, VA. It was OUTSIDE THUGS AND AGITATORS who came into VA chanting anti Semitic - anti Black slogans and songs , intruding upon the local citizens. This is WRONG.

There are no monuments to Hitler in Germany. No one needs a monument to any MAN to remember history. Even without these monuments the Neo Nazis and WS will never let us forget our history.
---kathr4453 on 8/25/17


I think the Monuments should be moved to Museums or Civil war Battlefields. There with plaques they could teach history.

Most people are ignorant of our history.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/25/17


//Sally Hemings next to Thomas Jefferson//

What about what Sally Hemings wanted?

Can't Sally Hemings decide for herself as a free Black woman what she wants?

//..or how about Frederick Douglass next to Lincoln--pg1on 8/24/17

Yes

Why wouldn't he want to be next to the man who freed him?

I want the bad, good and the great memorialized in any form or fashion so we will not forget history.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

We now have books and libraries and museums that allow one to remember the past, without it being shoved in your face every day. We could have billboards showing us that people smoke, but we don't - because we as a society don't want to glorify it.

Obviously you have never visited Germany particularly Berlin. They kept everything.

Showing Nazi symbols is ILLEGAL there. Google "Strafgesetzbuch section 86a".

Not to mention it isn't even their own property.

Destroying other people's property is illegal and reprehensible, although sometimes understandable (e.g. peasants with torches and pitchforks vs. Frankenstein).
---StrongAxe on 8/24/17


For those of you who believe it is wrong tear them down or remove them, I'd like to know your thoughts on putting Sally Hemings next to Thomas Jefferson, Slave women next to Dr. J. Marion Sims. He was physician who experimented on slave women without anesthesia or how about Frederick Douglass next to Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth or Nat Turner on a chapel? Are they not history too?
---pg1 on 8/24/17


//What's worse is the message is being sent that if "I don't like, I can destroy it."--WIVV

AMEN!!! Not to mention it isn't even their own property.

My Church 22 yrs ago in a Bible Belt area that didn't approve of statues. So every Christmas someone broke our Nativity set leaving a note stating 'Thou shall not worship images'

//It depends on what those monuments represent.//

Really? Who makes that decision?

//Now, monuments are usually used to glorify the past.//

To me they MEMORIALIZE the past.

//Hitler.. yet we have no statues of him in either Europe or America, and for good reason.--StrongAxe

Obviously you have never visited Germany particularly Berlin. They kept everything.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/17


I believe it is wrong. But I also believe they should be moved to either battlefields or museums. Where with plaques they can help people understand and know history.

Too many people are ignorant of American history. I think that would help.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/24/17


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It depends on what those monuments represent. In Egypt, smashing erased history because history was primarily written on monuments. Today, we have books and libaries and museums. People don't need monuments to remember the past. Now, monuments are usually used to glorify the past. We shouldn't build monuments to things we want to hold in contempt rather than honor. Hitler was a huge force in the history of the entire world in the 20th century, yet we have no statues of him in either Europe or America, and for good reason. People don't need statues to him to remember what he did. Similarly, America doesn't need statues of people who committed treason and deliberately chose to NOT be Americans.
---StrongAxe on 8/23/17


Of course it's wrong! These monuments represent some of the history of the USA, right or wrong. What's worse is the message is being sent that if "I don't like, I can destroy it.", The fact I'm breaking the law is not a factor. It reminds to a two year old child, if I can do it and my parents don't seem to mind, it must be O.K. (We are now reaping what parents neglected to do then, and that is applying discipline. The parents choose to be pals rather than parents.) What is being reflected now is the OUT OF CONTROL demonstrators. Reminds me of the Scripture that states what a man sows is what he reaps
---WIVV on 8/23/17


"Is tearing down America's historical monuments wrong?"
That would depend upon the history being represented.
---josef on 8/23/17


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