ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Accounting Of Your Taxes

Can a person question any type of welfare given by the Government? Esp. with known fraud in the system.

Shouldn't Christians demand an accounting of their taxes?

Luke 12:42-43

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Leadership Bible Quiz
 ---Nicole_Lacey on 9/1/17
     Helpful Blog Vote (2)

Post a New Blog



Nicole_Lacey:

We are always constrained by the 125 word limit here, This is the only site I know with such a ridiculous and stifling restriction. It doesn't even let you split a long post into several parts, as multiple posts are prohibited.

I tried to just post one relevant paragraph, but it wouldn't fit. I spend much more time on most messages, trying to trim and squeeze, to just get what I need to say to fit, than in composing them. This usually means I have to cut things out, and sometimes that even means cutting important things, including quotes. I point out the search parameters, so if you're interested, you can see the quotes in context.

I try to quote from previous posts, but frequently don't have the space.
---StrongAxe on 9/18/17


//DISINGENUOUS....Hummm, Nicole has found a new toy ( learned a new word) and uses it here often-- Kathr

Sorry, I will use these words instead: artful, astucious, astute, beguiling, clandestine, counterfeit, crafty, cunning, deceiving, deceptive, delusive, delusory, designing, disingenuous, double-dealing, duplicitous, fallacious, false, feline, foxy, fraudulent, furtive, guileful, hypocritical, illusory, impostrous, indirect, insidious, knavish, lying, mendacious, misleading, rascal, roguish, shifty, slick, sly, sneaky, stealthy, subtle, treacherous, tricky, two-faced, underhand, underhanded, untrustworthy, untruthful,
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/18/17


DISINGENUOUS.....


Hummm, Nicole has found a new toy ( learned a new word) and uses it here often, but has not shown she understands the meaning of the word and how to use it properly.


The only insincere, dishonest, person here Nicole is YOU.

YOU play stupid pretending to know less that what you have been shown, twisting words that are totally irrelevant to the conversation RE, fable vs myth....which did not change the meaning of anything YOU made a mountain out of......shows the only DISINGENUOUS PERSON HERE IS YOU.

And for that reason Nicole.....because I have no patience with disingenuous people or their petty bar hag replies....

BYE!
---kathr4453 on 9/18/17


PRAISE JESUS! You finally posted SOME of the rest of his letter. WHY DID YOU STILL CUT OFF HIS LETTER?

You are so DISINGENUOUS!

If you have all his SO CALLED LETTERS, why didn't you finish Jefferson's letter PRAISING JESUS as I have with Matthew 25:23 at the END of his letter?

//Let's REITERATE AGAIN. Thomas Jefferson did not believe in the Virgin Birth, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.--kathr

Let me REITERATE again, I WAN'T CITATION PROVING YOUR POINT.
I don't trust your reading skills.

Shame, you are plagiarizing 'Evil revisionism: Did Barton's Jefferson get a fair treatment?' by Dr. Joel McDurmon

Cite him, don't steal his wrong thoughts.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/18/17


NIcole, so here below is THE beginning of the NEXT PARAGRAPH
Jefferson concludes his letter to Adams. Jefferson WAS NOT first quoting Adams of Calvin, then saying so much for your quotation. ('mon dieu! Jusqu'a quand' is the quote. And is also in reference to the letter Adams previously wrote to Jefferson.

The NEXT paragraph and final sentence of Jefferson to Adams reads:

So much for your quotation of Calvins 'mon dieu! jusqua quand' NOTICE THE QUOTE IS IN 'QUOTATIONS' and that translated into English IS NOT what you claim Calvin quoted in the paragraph prior.


Let's REITERATE AGAIN. Thomas Jefferson did not believe in the Virgin Birth, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/18/17




Here is how Jefferson begins this very same letter to Adams:
Monticello April 11. 23.
Dear Sir
The wishes expressed, in your last favor, that I may continue in life and health until I become a Calvinist, at least in his exclamation of mon Dieu! jusque quand! would make me immortal. I can never join Calvin in addressing his god.
..........


Nicole, here is the beginning of that letter in answering a previous letter from Adams. The issue here is Calvinism VS Unitarian Universalism ( DEISTS) which believes EVERYONE IN THE END WILL BE SAVED. Not because they believe Jesus is the Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary.......Jeffersons OWN WORDS was mocking those who believe in the Deity of Christ in the previous paragraph.
---kathr4453 on 9/18/17


//it's totally absurd to say Calvin believed the virgin birth a fable. //

I will try to explain ONE LAST TIME. Go back to your personal letter you and StrongAxe cited. If your letter doesn't have the last paragraph that I cited then go to Beliefnet online.

Your citation cut off the part that I already cited of him saying it is a quote of Calvin. NOT ME, HE SAID IT.

You even cited the word 'Fable' in yourself.

//And why would Jefferson be quoting Calvin to Adams in a letter?//

Why, was it against the law to quote Calvin?

//And this letter is printed, and says NOTHING about quoting Calvin//

The letter is online as well, but it doesn't matter because you will MAKE UP the content anyway.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/17/17


Nicole, history tells us a different story about the RCC and Hitlers arrangement. SOME did, some did not.

Yes Hitler was baptized as a baby into the Catholic Church. Nicole so sneakily tries to find ways in people's words to discredit .....oh you misspelled so and so...therefore you are a liar. TOTALLY MORONIC AGAIN.

It was after Hitler saw a Passion Play...(yes the kindMel Gibson promoted ) that incited Hitler even more giving him (his words I just posted he quoted ) the excuse to murder Jews. Yes the same passion play that also incited violence and murder against the Jews year after year called pogroms BY CATHOLICS.

Tell the truth Nicole...we know the truth. You being in denial doesn't change history.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/17


Historically the German Evangelical Church viewed itself as one of the pillars of German culture and society, with a theologically grounded tradition of loyalty to the state. During the 1920s, a movement emerged within the German Evangelical Church called the Deutsche Christen, or "German Christians." The "German Christians" embraced many of the nationalistic and racial aspects of Nazi ideology. Once the Nazis came to power, this group sought the creation of a national "Reich Church" and supported a "nazified" version of Christianity.

Totally different than Hitler starting the Reich Church Nicole. Hitler had support of both Protestant and Catholics. Hitler remained a catholic.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Please tell me exactly WHICH statements I left out? Space limits me to only quoting relevant parts, the rest are readily searchable, and prove the same point. Besides, regardless of whether he made the words up on his own or was quoting Calvin is irrelevant - the fact that he believed them, for whatever reason, means he wasn't a Christian.

I quoted the part where he considered the virgin birth a myth several times. He followed Jesus for the same reason you follow Lincoln - because he though he was a good man, NOT because he thought he was God.

Matthew 15:23says nothing about the divinity of Jesus, so it matters not what Jefferson thought about it.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/17




Nicole, it's totally absurd to say Calvin believed the virgin birth a fable. And why would Jefferson be quoting Calvin to Adams in a letter? Whatever you are reading ...which is only your word, is a lie. I have studied Thomas Jefferson, and have in a book many of his letters...and those written to Adams in their,later years when they reconciled. And this letter is printed, and says NOTHING about quoting Calvin. And Calvin himself never made such a comment......

After reading and studying about Jefferson, which as a man is an awesome human being, ......broke my heart he was not a Chriatian. He suffered so many things alone, which I found so very very sad.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/17


//Many claim that Hitler was a Christian because he was born Catholic,//

No one is born Catholic. You have to BAPTIZED to be Catholic.

//he never publicly renounced his Catholicism,//

Yes he did! He persecuted the Catholic Church. He even started a Protestant called the 'Protestant Reich Church'.

You don't understand our Country's history, please don't try to lecture on Germany's history.

//and he wrote in Mein Kampf, "By defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.//

And which Church SAVE millions of Jews? THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!

The Vatican hid Jews from Hitler as ordered by PETER!

CITE a Protestant Church leader mandating you all to hid Jews from Hitler?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/17/17


//I quoted his direct words. I also paraphrased them in another message. I don't edit words to boast my argument.//

You are being disingenuous

Leaving out whole statements PROVING the opposite of your claim is editing to boast your argument.

Why did you leave out that he was quoting Calvin's words?

//Jefferson considered the virgin birth and ALL supernatural occurrences in the NT to be myths. How could he possibly believe Jesus was God then?//

NO HE DIDN'T! READ HIS WHOLE LETTER AGAIN!!!

He called that statement above a FABLE! And he speaks about himself and the other Congress members as SERVANTS of Jesus. He quotes from the Bible Matthew 15:23 at the end of his letter you and Kathr KEEP LEAVING OUT!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/17/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: As did King James with his 2nd KJV omitting 7 books of the OT.

No, HE didn't. HIS version had them.

Google: kjv apocrypha

"The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D.", by which time King James was LONG dead.

I quoted his direct words. I also paraphrased them in another message. I don't edit words to boast my argument. I frequently edit words to fit under the absurd 125 word limit.

Jefferson considered the virgin birth and ALL supernatural occurrences in the NT to be myths. How could he possibly believe Jesus was God then?
---StrongAxe on 9/17/17


Nicole, whether Strongaxe used myth or fable is beside the FACT that Thomas Jefferson clearly says in his letter to Adams he believes the Chriatian belief in nonsense, .......and arguing over a word " myth vs Fable" does not strengthen your argument that Jefferson was a Chriatian JUST BECAUSE one used the word myth in place of fable. HOW MORONIC!

Our FAITH IS NOT CALLED A MYTH OR FABLE, but a FACT. And NO CHRISTIAN would even utter those words Jefferson wrote......that's beyond all comprehension that you want to excuse it and give it a pass.

You use the lamest excuses to come back and continue to argue. Jeffersons OWN words SPEAK FOR Jefferson. YOU DO NOT. GOT THAT?
---kathr4453 on 9/17/17


//Treaty of Tripoli CLEARLY STATES WE ARE NOT. That treaty was made AFTER the Constitution and Declaration.--Kathr

StrongAxian, I already debunked that. Article 11 wasn't in that Treaty and NOT approved by our Congress.

I also gave the 1892 SCOTUS ruling after reading our Founder Father's writings. Holy Trinity v. United States where the court SAID

"There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning, they affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation, these are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons, they are organic utterances. They speak the voice of the entire people. This is a RELIGIOUS PEOPLE...THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION."
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/17/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Abortion Facts


Nicole, the answer is, NO we were not FOUNDED as a Christian Nation, Christian exclusively meaning the virgin birth, death buriel and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And that Jesus shed His Blood for the forgivness of sin. That Christ ALONE is head of the Church, and YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN. Of which I do not see any founding fathers attesting to such beliefs that this Country is FOUNDED ON.

And the Treaty of Tripoli CLEARLY STATES WE ARE NOT. That treaty was made AFTER the Constitution and Declaration.

Even with clear PROOF given you Nicole.....you still want to argue and use nonsense comparisons having NOTHING to do with NOTHING....all because YOU have an unteachable spirit and a pride that can't believe you are EVER wrong.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/17


//You wrote: As did King James with his 2nd KJV omitting 7 books of the OT.
No, he didn't. In case you didn't notice, the KJV of 1611 DID include the Apocrypha. They were only removed later.//

???? That's exactly what I just said. Why are you disagreeing with me? The 2nd edition is the 'later' you are speaking about as I said. 1611 is the year when the 1st edition came out with all 46 books of OT.

//I gave a DIRECT QUOTE of Jefferson saying he hoped the "myth of the virgin birth"//

You omitted the word 'FABLE'. That's called EDITING his words to boast your argument.

//He believed Jesus was a good man, but not God.---StrongAxe

Cite a quote from him saying that belief. Beliefnet proves otherwise.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/17/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: As did King James with his 2nd KJV omitting 7 books of the OT.

No, he didn't. In case you didn't notice, the KJV of 1611 DID include the Apocrypha. They were only removed later.

I gave DIRECT QUOTES of Jefferson talking about his LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

And I gave a DIRECT QUOTE of Jefferson saying he hoped the "myth of the virgin birth" would finally be treated like ancient Greek myths. Jefferson did NOT believe in any of the supernatural happenings in the New Testament, so much so that he made his own bible with all of those passage cut out. He believed Jesus was a good man, but not God.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/17


And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Nicole, Many of our founding fathers, even Adams were Unitarian Universalists.....AKA DEISTS. King James was not, and is outrageous to make such a comparison......must be that wacky cognitive association showing it's strange face again.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Acne Treatment


Many claim that Hitler was a Christian because he was born Catholic, he never publicly renounced his Catholicism, and he wrote in Mein Kampf, "By defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

WOW! So as we have seen, even in Hitlers words above...THAT IS NOT CHRISTIAN. Never was and never will be. Just because someone says they are Christian does not make it so.

And where did Peter loose on earth such an evil man as Hiltler Nicole? Peter OK's the murder of millions of his own people, that even Paul said of himself he would gladly be lost so they could be saved.....

If you also,want to defend Hitlers Christianity......THEN you don't know what Christian really means.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/17


The debate is about what TYPE of Religion

//which a deist can also be//

NO THEY ARE NOT! That's like saying a baby bird that has flow from the nest still has a FAMILY connection with it's parents.

Unless you are a Deist STOP trying to be their Apologist. They only believe there is a Creator. THAT'S IT!

Where are there? If they claim they were BORN AGAIN WHO are YOU to say different?

CORRECTION, ALL OF MY THINKING IS INFLUENCED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!

//If in fact we were a Christian Nation, there would be no: Scientology Churches, Mormon Churches, JW's,.GET IT NOW?????---kathr4453

The DEBATE is were we FOUNDED as a Christian nation not if we are one TODAY. GET IT NOW????
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/17/17


Nicole, Our founding fathers were RELIGIOUS, which a deist can also be, yet STILL NOT ALL WERE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS.

I think from some of your comments your thinking may be influenced by your Catholic background, and your idea that even Peter was put in charge...which is not true.

So with that Nicole, since what I am saying is going totally over your head, you being someone who is RELIGIOUS, without knowing the difference between Religion and Christianity, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

If in fact we were a Christian Nation, there would be no: Scientology Churches, Mormon Churches, JW's , JewishTemples, Mosques, etc etc etc. making us a THEOCRACY. WE ARE NOT. GET IT NOW?????
---kathr4453 on 9/16/17


//I can absolutely say Jefferson was not a Christian. When I saw that he came up with the Jefferson Bible,//

So according to your logic neither was King James.

//which actually were verses he liked, picking and choosing what he personally liked,//

As did King James with his 2nd KJV omitting 7 books of the OT.

You don't know what is a Deist, but CLAIM someone is one. You personally have taken out Matthew 16:19 and have the nerve to talk about Jefferson?

Funny how one Protestant judges another Protestant. Ironic.

Thomas Jefferson isn't the only Christian Founding Father.

I gave DIRECT QUOTES of Jefferson talking about his LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST.

You just run your mouth.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/16/17


Send a Free Support Ecard


Kathr, first you have to know the difference between a Deist and a Christian.

Second, you have to base your debate upon their actual meanings.

You have contradicted yourself over and over. You have brought in a straw man's arguments in order for your own easement of tearing it down.

If you agree with StrongAxe then you need to be a StrongAxian.

But you will not revise history just because you don't want our Founding Fathers to be Christians, thus founding our Country on Judeo-Christians values.

As for the Founding Fathers and I, we are Christians.

BTW, just because you don't like Matthew 16:13-19 doesn't mean it isn't in the Bible. Deal with it or continue to reject it.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/16/17


Nicole, I can absolutely say Jefferson was not a Christian. When I saw that he came up with the Jefferson Bible, which actually were verses he liked, picking and choosing what he personally liked, based mostly on moral character, and NOT on Jesus Christ, never seeing himself as a sinner, ....again was not a Christian. He may have had his own personal religious beliefs, but was not a Christian. YOU promote a GENERIC Chriatianity....not true Christianity.

Christianity is SOLELY in JESUS CHRIST the ONLY way one has TO God. People can talk about God all they want, BUT omitting Jesus Christ as our ONLY way to God is omitted in our Constitution....therefore this country was not founded on Christianity.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/17


" The Light and the Glory " written by Peter Marshall and David Manuel became very popular in the churches in the 80's along with the Moral Majority promoting the idea that America was founded on Christianity and how we need to take America back for God. The problem Here is it was THEIR personal opinion, NOT BASED ON PROPHECY WHATSOEVER, that America was Gods plan from 1492-1779 or whatever date. They CLAIMED America was Gods NEW PROMISE LAND and we were Gods NEW CHOSEN PEOPLE. This is a LIE. No scripture whatsoever prophesied God would take away His Covenant promises to Israel and give it to a Gentile Nation sometime in the future. THEREFORE this book is a LIE, that so many, who don't take the Bible seriously want to believe.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/17


THANK YOU. Jefferson's letter to Adams is ripping on Calvinism. He calls them enemies to the doctrines of Jesus. He states the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. He is telling Adams it is a fable.

He ends with "So much for your quotation of Calvin's 'mon dieu! jusqu'a quand', when addressed to the GOD OF JESUS, and OUR GOD, I Join you cordially, and await his time and will with more readiness than reluctance. May we meet there again, in Congree, with our antient Colleagues, and receive with them the seal of approbation Well done, good and faithful servants.'

Deists do not believe in a Creator ever speaking to us again. After creation the Creator has NOTHING to do with it's creation according to them.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/16/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Bad Credit Loans


Actually Nicole, Peter was not IN CHARGE. Jesus is head of the Church, not Peter or any Popes after.

Second....Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian, and never claimed he was. At least Deists believed in a God, and not evolution....but as Strongaxe listed...YES they were all Deists. Also all this icon stuff is Masonic Symbolism, going back to Nimrod....is NOT CHRISTIAN.

And again Nicole, God never made a special covenant with America...or any Gentile Nation. And that is where much of this misinformation has originated....based on a lie. Just because some want to believe it so, doesn't make it so.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/17


//no CAST system, no Monarchy, no RCC, or Church of England calling the shots..--kathr4453

NONESENSE. That's Anarchy. Someone has to be in charge.

Jesus even put Peter in Charge. Separated the Disciples into groups.

The 72 were not at the same level as the 12 Apostles. And within 12 Apostles it was divided into 2 groups. 3 of them (Peter, James and John) had more privileges and knowledge than the other 9.

You are thinking like a Communist. Which only works in Lefties minds not in reality.

Every time and I mean EVERY TIME they try to make communist ideas into reality people are KILLED, STARVE, and kept HOSTAGE in their own country.

In REAL Communist Countries they have deep UNMOVABLE CAST SYSTEMS.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/16/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Google: jefferson adams letter minerva
The very first link is on Beliefnet, and includes the entire letter, and this paragraph near the end (I only have room for half of it):

... And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.
---StrongAxe on 9/16/17


Kathr, you do not understand what Deists and Christians believe. Deists do not Christians

You can't be a Deists and believe in Jesus

Deists ONLY believe in a Creator or Higher Being. That's as FAR as the Creator intervenes in our lives. He created us and that's it. He doesn't care how your day goes. He doesn't answer your prayers if you pray to him. He didn't become a man for us and die for us.

Divine Providence means God DOES CARE about our day and intervenes to help us if we LET HIM.

If you are a Christian it means you believe our Creator acted more than just creating us. He became MAN, DIED for ROSE from the dead for us.

So Thomas Jefferson CAN NOT be a Deist and a Christian at the SAME time. Understand?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/16/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Bankruptcy


Nazi Germany call themselves Christians. And they believed in Divine Providence WRONGLY.

Again CITE that so called quote of Thomas Jefferson. He wasn't a Deists. Cite the letter. If you read it please tell me so I CAN READ IT.

//Why rely on a SCOTUS opinion//

Because the SCOTUS and I both read writings from the Founding Fathers and deemed them to be True Christians.

You all are making up stuff TRYING to make them Deists.

//Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli was not in the Arabic, only English - and the Senate unanimously confirmed the ENGLISH version.---StrongAxe

The English version came from a TRANSLATION of an Arabic one.
The Congress confirmed an English Treaty without Article 11.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/16/17


Nicole, Thomas Jefferson, a Deist used the word "Providence" often. Yet he rewrote his own ..."Jefferson Bible", removing the virgin birth, the death and resurrection , miracles and the blood.....ALL the very central points of CHRISTIANITY. There is no OTHER Christianity Nicole, not even a GENERIC kind of Christianity. The Judeo Chriatian Ethic again IS NOT based on the above list either. Christianity is ...THE DEATH BURIEL AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST and faith in His death and resurrection making one a Christian.
Making America a Christian Nation came before Congress a couple times in the History of the USA....THE BILL DIED. You can't legislate CHRISTIANITY, THATS IMPOSSIBLE.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/17


Also Nicole, in reading the Declaration of Independence ..the ONLY place "divine providence" is stated, ( no mention of God in the Constitution) it must be read in light of what they were coming out of.....Europe where it was believed only KINGS and POPES had "divine authority ...providence". Here in America, no power was given to the Government in that way, but that every individual was created and endowed with these God given rights, TO BE FREE and that all men were created equal....no CAST system, no Monarchy, no RCC, or Church of England calling the shots....etc etc, as was all over Europe and the known world at that time.
More later
---kathr4453 on 9/16/17


3) and that is what made slavery so horrible in this country, .....it went against everything our DI and Constitution stood for and still does.....that no one had power or ownership over another. YET we see in Pauls letters the issue of slaves and slave owners. So the issue of slavery was not a Christian no no, but a CONSTITUTIONAL NO NO. That's why so many so called Christians in the south did own slaves. And the ACCOUNTING of not just taxes but Statutes of those given a PARDON FOR TREASON should be taken off of Government property. They never should have been put up in the first place.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Cash Advance


Nicole_Lacey:

I was talking about non-Christian countries invoking God, not Muslim ones specifically. Nazi Germany said "Gott mit uns" (i.e. "God with us"), but nobody would call them Christians.

Thomas Jefferson hoping the virgin birth myth would be viewed like Greek myths shows his beliefs were hardly Christian. (Letter from Thomas Jefferson to John Adams.)

Why rely on a SCOTUS opinion on the founding fathers beliefs, rather than they themselves ACTUALLY WROTE? It's like relying on some preacher's interpretation of scripture rather than on scripture itself.

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli was not in the Arabic, only English - and the Senate unanimously confirmed the ENGLISH version.
---StrongAxe on 9/15/17


Kathr, who claiming Muslims don't believe in Divine Providence?

I asked StrongAxe to CITE a Muslim document calling Allah the Creator or referring to Him as Divine Providence. They always call Him Allah.

Even Wikipedia states if Divine Providence is capitalized it means the Title of God as our Founding Fathers used the words not Mulisims

Deists believe in a Creator, but He stops at creating and has nothing else to do with His creation.

Divine Providence means the Creator is involved in the smallest matters involving His creation.

So I asked StrongAxe, how can our Founding Fathers be Deists, but using the words Divine Providence? The two doesn't go together.

That's like claiming the Pope isn't Catholic.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/15/17


//"Allah" is the Arabic word for "god" and "God"--StrongAxe

Everyone knows that. Everyone also KNOWS Muslims always say Allah NOT Creator or Divine Providence. CITE a Muslim document NOT using Allah if I am wrong.

There's plenty of people CLAIMING they are Deists. I asked you to CITE quoting Founding Father as Deist.

SCOTUS doesn't make or set laws they interpret Laws. As they did with ACTUAL writings from the Founding Founders to BASE their judgment not opinion.

You gave NO citation from Founder Fathers. Citation gives me the SOURCE of your statement as I gave you with USNEWS.

As for the Treaty of Tripoli please go to Tekton Apologetics to PROVE Article 11 NEVER was in the Treaty!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/15/17


Divine providence vs LUCK???? Isn't that the opposite? Sooooo, Even though Islam may not have a country's document stating the words ' divine providence' doesn't mean they don't believe in divine providence or a creator. Actually even the Mormons believe in divine providence AND a creator...however one may rightly say Mormonism is NOT Chriatianity.

So I agree here with Strongaxe that those words do not make America ABSOLUTLEY BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT CHRIATIAN.

And then we have those who so believe in divine providence they will say BOTH hurricanes recently were Gods punishment....stating DIVINE PROVIDENCE, and Osteens refusing to help as Gods selfishness. Sorry, I just don't believe that.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Counseling


Nicole_Lacey:

"Allah" is the Arabic word for "god" and "God" (cognate with Hebrew "Eloah"/"Elohim"), and is also used in Arabic translations of Christian bibles.

Google: founding fathers deists

John Quincy Adams, Ethan Allen, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Thomas Paine, George Washington.

SCOTUS has the power to set the law of the land, but not the power of clairvoyance. What they say about the founding fathers is just their opinions. To see what the founding fathers ACTUALLY thought, read what they wrote, as I did.

I cited FOUR in my previous post - Adams, Jefferson, DofI, Treaty of Tripoi - weren't you paying attention?
---StrongAxe on 9/15/17


//"Creator" and "Divine Providence" do not necessarily imply Christianity.//

Yes it does. Show me (cite) any Country's document by a Muslim that uses those words and not Allah?

//Many of the founding fathers were Deists//

NOT TRUE. How can you be a Deist and depend on Divine Providence?

//Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States was a hundred yrs later//

SCOTUS interpreted the Founding Fathers motives by their writings which PROVES I am right.

Question: How can they interpret them as Judeo-Christian 100 yrs. later, but you can't 241 years later?

//So, some of the founding fathers intends this to be a Christian nation, and some didn't.--StrongAxe

Cite ONE that didn't?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/15/17


Nicole_Lacey:

"Creator" and "Divine Providence" do not necessarily imply Christianity. Pagan religions also believed in creators and divine providence. Many of the founding fathers were Deists - they believed in some nebulous divine entity, but not the Judaeo-Christian concept of God as such.

The Treaty of Tripoli in 1796 mentions that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States was a hundred years later - so it was NOT the opinions of the Founding Fathers, as they were all dead.

So, some of the founding fathers intends this to be a Christian nation, and some didn't.
---StrongAxe on 9/11/17


**Declaration of Independence, our founders acknowledged that all men "are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.." and noted that they were relying "on the protection of Divine Providence" in the founding of this country. John Quincy Adams said, "The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity." Also, the signers of the 1783 Treaty of Paris, which ended the Revolutionary War, insisted the treaty begin with the phrase, "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity."....in 1892, in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, the United States Supreme Court held that America is a "Christian nation."--US NEWS
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/11/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


Nicole_Lacey:

As a Canadian citizen, my allegiance is to my country of citizenship. It MUST remain that way until and unless I renounce my citizenship. If I become a U.S. citizen, THEN I will pledge allegiance> Do you understand?

You claim that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian values, but which founders said that? Please cite references.

The Declaration of Independence said governments derive their power from the consent of the governed (not God).

John Adams said the U.S. is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion.

Thomas Jefferson said one day the belief in the virgin birth of Jesus would be classified with the fable of the generation of Minerva by Jupiter.
---StrongAxe on 9/10/17


Judea Christian values/ethics has taken on many definitions over the history of our Country, however the original meaning of the phrase has to do with attitudes towards Jews, and those who tried to steer folks away from anti-semitism.

So no, it is not in our constitution. However TODAY it is used by the Religious Right and many Calvinistic leaning Churches, ( Dr James Kennedy) who have even gone as far as hanging a picture of Jesus kneeling in front of the American Flag with the verse underneath " IF MY PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME...etc etc". ...making the claim America is the NEW ISRAEL and America is Gods NEW CHOSEN PEOPLE....believing God had made a Covenant with a Gentile Nation....

IT NEVER HAPPENED.
---kathr4453 on 9/10/17


StrongAxe, I am not asking to pledge allegiance to BOTH countries.

You live HERE and wish to do STAY PERMANENTLY!

Why would you LIVE in a place in which you DON'T AGREE with it's pledge?

As I said Sharia law makes a Country a Muslim Nation. Vatican City is the ONLY Christian Country RULED by Christian mandates.

United States was FOUNDED by Judea Christian values as explained by our Founders. So we are known as a Christian Nation, but we are correctly addressed as a Capitalist Nation.

1st Amendment states the United States CAN'T make a law forcing ONE religion on everyone! Or forbidden anyone from CHOOSING a religion for themselves. A DIFFERECNE

Where I come from it is NASTY to tell someone to 'SHUT UP'.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/9/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Why are you SO OBSESSED with my pledging allegiance? Is there something about "No man can serve two masters" that you don't understand? One CANNOT pledge allegiance to two countries at the same time!

So Catholic majority Venuzuela is not a Catholic nation, and Orthodox majority Soviet Union was not an Orthodox nation, but Christian majority U.S. IS a Christian nation? Why the inconsistency?

Which "Judeo Christian values" were U.S. founded on? Constitution doesn't mention God or Jesus or Bible, and First Amendment specifically forbids government from establishing religion.

I HAVE read kathr's posts and found nothing objectionable - which is why I need you to substantiate your charges.
---StrongAxe on 9/8/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


Good point, Bill

//Nicole, I just stated a fact that Bannon in his Alt Right News paper stated..I simply asked YOU what YOU thought of YOUR BUDDY who is also a Catholic stated.//

No you didn't. You set up his statement with snide question:
***Is Far Right Steve Bannon telling the truth or is he LYING NIcole. If you say LYING, then how many other things has he LIED about that you repeat here?---kathr4453

//Please learn to read.//

And you need to learn to remember your own postings before getting smart with someone.

//answer the questions asked of you, and stop deflecting or answering questions with more questions.---kathr4453

That's a JOKE since you ALWAYS DEFLECT. You never answer questions!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/8/17


You chose to be in America. You didn't request temporary residence, but a permanent one.
Israel worshipping false idol didn't NOT make them Jewish.

Are you saying it is against the law for you to pledge the Allegiance? Of course not.

You Chose and REQUESTED documents to live here permanently.

Just admit you don't want to say the pledge. Which concerns me.

Being a majority of a Country doesn't mean you have control.

We are a Christian Nation because we were founded by Judea Christian values.

The Soviet Union had a majority of Orthodox citizens, but it was still Communist.

//Can you show some specific examples?---StrongAxe

I will, but if you can't wait just hit her name and read her posts.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/8/17


Nicole, since the Catholic Church is not doing such a great job in Latan America, I will support other ministries who also don't have strings attached. And of coarse my taxes help as well, just as it did paying for your college education, when I had to pay for mine and my children's.. Without government assistance.
---kathr4453 on 9/8/17


//Catholic Church feeds all the poor..//

AMEN!

You should know the English language.
When I said 'all' I didn't mean 'complete', but She DOESN'T discriminate among the poor.

As I said we give bread without strings attached. In other words you don't have to convert just to eat a meal.

//starving and malnutrition , then WHY is that happening.//

If Jesus Who is God DIDN'T stop starving while He while on earth why would you assume His Bride could feed EVERYONE?

//Just answer the question//

Can you?

//NO CHURCH, no matter what affiliation can make sure all are fed. Churches DO HELP, but CANT do it all. Agreed?---kathr4453

True, NOW CAN YOU ALL HELP THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FEED THE POOR?
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/8/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


Nicole_Lacey:

To pledge allegiance to one country while being a citizen of another makes one serve two masters - something even Jesus said was impossible. The best one can do is to swear to uphold the laws of the host country (which permanent residents are already required to do).

If Latin American natios, whose populations are mostly made up of Catholics, are not Catholic nations, then the U.S., whose population is mostly made up of Christians, is not a Christian nation, despite the claims of many to the contrary.

You also accused kathr4453 of "spewing out hate". I don't recall her ever doing so. Can you show some specific examples?
---StrongAxe on 9/8/17


Nicole, you were the one who said the Catholic Church feeds all the poor... My question is, if Latan America which is predomitely Catholic has starving and malnutrition , then WHY is that happening. Just answer the question Nicole, and stop accusing or deflecting here. The answer is, NO CHURCH, no matter what affiliation can make sure all are fed. Churches DO HELP, but CANT do it all.

Agreed?
---kathr4453 on 9/8/17


Kathr, why do you spew out hate?

Ask questions and demand answers but REFUSE to answer any questions?

You answer questions by asking another question or you just ignore the question moving on to attack someone else.

Then you have the nerve to tell someone they are not living a Christian life or following Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/17


While America is not effectively defending her unborn citizens, possibly her leaders so lacking in character also will not be able to effectively take care her other people, never mind know how to deal with caring for other countries while she doesn't have the character to love and take care of her own unborn.

First ones need to have the character to love and care for all citizens, born and unborn. If leaders do not know how to love the born and unborn, Jesus says, "without Me you can do nothing" (in John 15:5).

So, while we are not requiring an account for how our unborn are being taken care of, don't expect to get much from financial accounting.
---Bill on 9/8/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


//They dropped fair and balanced...HURRAY for Shepherd Smith who doesn't lie for the network, and was outraged over Trump JR LYING..He's spoken up a few times now..so is he now a lefty?---kathr

Shepherd Smith has ALWAYS been a Lefty. He is also Gay.

Everyone knew it but NO ONE cared about his personal life or his political view. Smith reported as a true Journalist.

He followed Fox's Fair and Balance (which they still use). But more importantly their other claim of: WE REPORT YOU DECIDE.

Just in case you don't know what it means. It means they are not going to SPOON FEED you the news.

They will tell you what happened without editing out information and you form YOUR OWN OPINION of what was reported to you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/7/17


//Isn't this predominantly Catholic Territory? Looks like they are FAILING in Latan American countries. Why?---kathr4453 on 9/5/17

You don't know much about Governments do you?

The only Catholic Territory is Vatican City or the Holy See.

If you meant doesn't these places have a majority of Catholics LIVING in them the answer is yes.

We have Catholics in all Countries. But the Catholic Church feeds all the poor.

We don't care if they are Protestant, Jewish, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu, or Communist.

In fact, because of that some Countries ONLY allow the Catholic Church to help feed, clothe, shelter and give medical attention to their poor.

We don't give bread with strings attached.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/6/17


StrongAxe, I APOLOGIZE from my STRONG RUDE response.

Luke 12:42-43 Remember the servant isn't the Lord, but left in charge of his possession.

Likewise, our Representative does exactly what the word implies. We are the lord that can replace them.

Why isn't it not right for you to say the Pledge of Allegiance as a PERMANENT RESIDENT? The pledge is to allegiance to get other.

Allies are used for Countries with different Government beliefs.

We had a draft, because if you were part of this Country the Government felt it could force you into the military. As they did my father from Puerto Rico (Territory not a State)

We excepted everyone in America to have each other's back not the UK. Nice, but not required.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/6/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Luke 12:42-43 is about a lord demanding accounting from his servant, NOT vice versa.

BUT NOT THE CONSTITUTION!

The Pledge of Allegiance is NOT in the Constitution, and is not even a law.

I wrote: I became a PERMANENT RESIDENT, and it is not right for me to do so.

You wrote: NO IT ISN'T! If you don't like the words in the Allegiance then GO HOME!

I said it isn't, and you ALSO said it isn't - so you agree with me! What am I missing?

If you CAN'T STAND with us then you intend to fight us.

Logic, PLEASE! In WW2, US and UK troops fought side by side as ALLIES, but neither could swear ALLEGIANCE to each other's countries.
---StrongAxe on 9/5/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


The umpteenth time, you can't CHANGE this Country just because you DISAGREE with HOW our Country was formed my our Founders! Simply a Republic. No adjectives.

//Values..indeed all of society, change drastically from generation to generation.//

BUT NOT THE CONSTITUTION!

//Your friend became a CITIZEN and it was right for her to pledge allegiance. I became a PERMANENT RESIDENT, and it is not right for me to do so.---StrongAxe

NO IT ISN'T! If you don't like the words in the Allegiance then GO HOME!

If you CAN'T STAND with us then you intend to fight us.

What do you thing the Pledge of Allegiance means?

If you don't have my BACK then please stand in FRONT of me so I can keep an eye on you!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/5/17


Nicole_Lacey:

People don't "write things on Google". Google merely indexes articles that people all over the world publish on the internet. People are free to publish what they want. People from ALL SIDES can publish their views, and Google will index ALL of them, so you

Once again, for the umpteenth time, it doesn't matter what the Democrats and Republicans believed 100+ years ago. It matters what they believe NOW. Values of both parties, and indeed all of society, change drastically from generation to generation.

Your friend became a CITIZEN and it was right for her to pledge allegiance. I became a PERMANENT RESIDENT, and it is not right for me to do so.
---StrongAxe on 9/5/17


Nicole, FOX has been called out for years over FAKE NEWS....long before shedding their sexual Preditors.

They dropped fair and balanced, because of being shown they are not. And HURRAY for Shepherd Smith who doesn't lie for the network, and was outraged over Trump JR LYING.

He's spoken up a few times now....so is he now a lefty?
---kathr4453 on 9/5/17


//Gosh, you guys who only listen to FOX are so in the dark.---kathr4453 on 9/3/17

You need to keep up.

Fox news has been shedding Conservative Viewers for over a year.

They lost their 1st place in ratings.

Seems you been watching too much MSNBC and CNN.

You might not know this since you seem to be in the dark, but both of them have ADMITTED lying to you all. FAKE MEDIA

Take the first step!

Do your own research.

WALK OFF THE DEMOCRAT PLANATION!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/4/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


//Google: "democratic republic"//

I don't care what someone wrote on Google. NO Google in 1776 or 1781

****The "republic"implies that we have a strong head of state (the President) and elected officials representing the people...The mere fact that a nation has a constitution, is a federation, or is a republic,.--Constitution FAQ#76

I cited the Pledge to inform you that we pledge our Allegiance to the Republic NOT to the Democracy.

Maybe if you said the pledge once and awhile we wouldn't have this conversation.

//Do YOU personally know Green Card procedure?--StrongAxe

No, but I PAID for a DEAR FRIEND to become a citizen in 2016. She did pledged the allegiance and was PROUD to do so!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/4/17


Nicole_Lacey:

Google: "democratic republic"
Republic: power rests in citizens ENTITLED to vote.
Democratic republic: ALL citizens can vote EQUALLY.

Pledge of Allegiance is popular, but not mandated by the constitution, and it is not law.

We discuss the U.S., not your local government.

As a U.S. citizen in the U.K., you could not pledge allegiance both U.S. and Queen. You could swear to uphold U.K. laws, but not pledge allegiance.

No, I didn't. Do YOU personally know Green Card procedure?

Natural born Americans don't have to swear to uphold the constitution unless they take public office, but immigrants do.

Google: obamacare repeal popularity
16-39% depending on who you ask.
---StrongAxe on 9/4/17


//What "stuff" did I make up?//

It is a Democratic Republic.---StrongAxe 9/2/17

It isn't. It is JUST A REPUBLIC.

If you did recite the Pledge you would KNOW that we are a Republic.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands...

//I ask again, what laws did you PERSONALLY vote for?//

Besides Federal Government Laws there are plenty of LOCAL laws on the ballot sheet

If I LEFT the USA and moved to the UK, YES I WOULD recite the Queen's Allegiance or I would LEAVE!

//I DID have to swear to uphold the constitution when I got my green card.---StrongAxe

And you recited the Pledge of Allegiance as well.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/3/17


WHO is happy Obamacare is still in effect? Even the Idiots and their Aids who PASSED Obamacare DON'T want it! They were able to go on OPM government insurance (which I do have. It's great)

The REPUBLICANS can't fix it themselves and now a joint effort is in play to fix the issues. I SAY GREAT.//

I see you don't care families have to pay 3 times their rate. Cruel

//..not allowing themselves to be bullied by Trump to do a stupid thing. Bravo for the REP asking for the help with the DEMS--Kathr

Strange how Republican McCain and McConnell had to LIE on this issue just to get re-elected.

They will be KICKED OUT like those Democrats in 2010!

Senator Luther Strange and Flake will be the first examples! WATCH
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/3/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


Nicole_Lacey:

What "stuff" did I make up?

I ask again, what laws did you PERSONALLY vote for?

I don't know any country where people directly vote for laws. Laws are always decided by representatives.

Citing the Pledge of Allegiance has nothing to do with running the country.

I understand perfectly well why people who win the popular vote can still lose an election. I actually posted an example of that to you a few days ago. You must not have been paying attention.

I cannot in good conscience cite the Pledge, as it would indicate dual allegiance, any more than you could swear allegiance to the Queen if you lived in the U.K. I DID have to swear to uphold the constitution when I got my green card.
---StrongAxe on 9/3/17


I always wondered how the Gun vote would go if it was voted on directly from the people. There are MANY who thought they wanted to do away with ObamaCare, but are glad it is still in effect...yes even Rep. The REPUBLICANS can't fix it themselves and now a joint effort is in play to fix the issues. I SAY GREAT. Then the people KNOW, both Dems and REP that the Gov is trying to have everyone's back.
Personally that was a smart move. No party wants to be accused of throwing millions off of healthcare.

They did the absolute RIGHT THING, by not allowing themselves to be bullied by Trump to do a stupid thing. Bravo for the REP asking for the help with the DEMS.


Gosh, you guys who only listen to FOX are so in the dark.
---kathr4453 on 9/3/17


Quit making stuff up!

I was a military brat and went to military school for my 7 elementary yrs.

We had to cite 'The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag' every morning. You need to do the same.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Next you are going to tell me how this Country runs when you can't understand WHY Hillary LOST when she got the popular vote.

You are NOT in Canada anymore.

Unlike you all when we got our Independence we made sure the People were in charge.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/3/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: StrongAxe, in this Country we do have the right to say how the Government spends our taxes.

No, we don't. You keep insisting, correctly, that this country is not a Democracy. It is a Democratic Republic. We have NO SAY in the laws the country passes. All we can do is vote for people to represent us, and trust that THEY will pass the laws we want. If they don't, the only recourse we have is to tell them "Do what we want, or we'll vote you out next time", and they are free to listen to that threat or ignore it. When was the last time that YOU, personally, voted for or against any law?

The Government answers to the people.

Indirectly, through the people's representatives.
---StrongAxe on 9/2/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


StrongAxe, in this Country we do have the right to say how the Government spends our taxes. Congress passes bills explaining HOW they will use our money. The Government answers to the people.

Now when certain members of Congress refuse to listen to the people they get KICKED out of Office. If we were not in charge we wouldn't have elections.

John McCain had to lied about Obamacare to get re-elected.
Now his Jr Senator Flake is losing by 25% a year out of the 2018 primary because of Obamacare. The Lady who lost to McCain is running against Flake. The people of Arizona will NOT be tricked twice.

Alabama, Luther Strange is losing because of Mitch McConnell. The Government has to explain it's actions one way or another.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/2/17


Okay. What makes it their money? It is OUR Government, so it is our money.

In Matt 22:19-22 Jesus didn't say to PAY Taxes. That is one of the most abused Scriptures used by Leftists.

The Denarius is a Roman coin. So Jesus said return it to them.

Romans didn't own all the gold, silver and other valuable minerals.

As the Government doesn't own all the gold and oil. You don't have to trade with 'US currency'. People do accept gold.

Besides you are missing Jesus' point. We are made in the Image of God.

So our whole being BELONGS to God. US

People are willing to CHEAT God of His required tithing, but get upset if someone doesn't pay their fair share of taxes.

BTW THEY ARE NEVER FAIR!
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/2/17


Rome was a much more corrupt government than ours. It used tax revenues to finance armies that conquered and enslaved other countries, and to support temples to pagan gods. Jesus didn't tell his followers to refrain from paying taxes because those taxes would be used for ungodly ends. He said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's". Once Caesar has your dollar, it is Caesar's responsibility to spend it responsibly, not yours. As a citizen, you may have concerns about how your government is run, and you may express such concerns at the ballot box, but otherwise, you don't have any legal standing to contest it (e.g. you can't sue the government for misusing your tax dollars).
---StrongAxe on 9/2/17


Copyright© 2017 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.