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Jesus Takes Our Sin

(Hebrews 10:4) teaches us it was not possible for the animal sacrifice to take away sin, but (1 John 3:5) tells us Jesus Christ can.

The blood of Christ can TAKE AWAY sin. What does this mean?

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 ---David on 10/7/17
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I love Trump. But I believe he is bad for the people of the United States and the world.

So I don't trust him.

We are sinners. The blood of Jesus removes sin and we set as righteous in the eyes of GOD.

But because we are saved and love GOD and love others. We must die to self to be sanctified and live for Jesus.

1 John 2 tells us we are to not sin. But if we do we have an Advocate a High Priest who we can turn to and from whom we receive the Holy Spirit to live in love of GOD and love of others.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/27/17


David, I was justified the moment I put my faith in Jesus death and resurrection, believing He died for my sin, and shed His blood for the forgivness of my sin.-Kath

Kathryn
I can not deny your claim, for one of the signs of the saved, is that they can not sin. According to your belief you were born without the Law, you were born without the ability to commit sin, so you do exibit this one sign. (1 John 3:10).

Let your own heart bear witness to the other sign. Do you love everyone? Do you love, say...Donald Trump? Be honest with yourself, if you were to meet Trump, how would you feel about him?
---David on 10/27/17


"But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, 'As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.' So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God."

Romans 14:10-12
---Loony1 on 10/26/17


When your love for God, is greater than your love for the world, thats when you become justified in the eyes of God. ////


David, i was justified the moment I put my faith in Jesus death and resurrection, believing He died for my sin, and shed His blood for the forgivness of my sin. I don't earn justification, nor work toward. Justification is my LEGAL STANDING. NOW I am being changed from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Cor 3.. Is my sanctification. Agape love is not humanly possible. That LOVE is one of the fruit of the Spirit.....that comes via being crucified with Christ...Galatians 5:16-25. Especially focus on verse 24.... something you keep leaving out.
---kathr4453 on 10/26/17


my sanctification is about..being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.-Kathryn

Kathryn
Exactly right.
And this is done to build your relationship with God. A relationship that would not be possible without, the blood of Christs ability, to remove the sin that separates us from God.

Through this relationship, your love for God grows greater than your love for the world. When your love for God, is greater than your love for the world, thats when you become justified in the eyes of God.

Obedience does not save you, it brings you Gods Grace. (John 14:21) And it will be Grace that causes you to love God, more than you love the world. Look up Love in the Bible and you will see the Truth.
---David on 10/26/17




David, I understand sanctification as our growing in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ into the fulness and stature of Jesus Christ...Eph 3 and 4, via the FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUFFERINGBeing made conformable to His death. And sharing in the power of His resurrection. PHil 3. This is what my sanctification is about..being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

We are Justified by His Blood and SAVED BY HIS LIFE. The Blood of Christ washed away my sin, but it did not wash away my old man or old sin nature. BUT my identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life did. And Paul continues to tell us that those who now are Christ's ARE IN THE SPIRIT. So in Gods eyes, I am in the spirit and I'm also IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/17


NOW my walk goes far deeper than just being convicted of breaking the 10 commandments and then confessing.-Kathryn

Kathryn
Though most people dont know it, the process you mention, is what Paul called sanctification.

Sanctification is the removal of sin and the darkness, of which we will walk, if that sin is not removed. The blood of Christ is the only way to remove the sin. And the only way for your sin to be washed away, is through confession of sin.

Sanctification is necessary to be in relationship with God. (1 John 1) is a teaching on Sanctification.
---David on 10/25/17


David, I have no problem with what you said, but NOW my walk goes far deeper than just being convicted of breaking the 10 commandments and then confessing. We also, having Christ in us, have the mind of Christ, and are able to discern false teachers and so much more. And NOT compromising with the world, ..as we are no longer part of this world system, also our calling..( never part of the 10 commandments) READ Colossians 3:1-4 for starters, Phil 3 another...shows an even higher law we are to obey. I believe THIS is also the Law of Christ. Also being conformed to His Death, and NOT rejecting or becoming bitter, accepting and obeying James chapter 1...again is the TESTING of our FAITH, the absolute central part of our NEW LIFE IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/17


David, the question is, how do YOU reconcile these truths?
---kathr4453


Kathryn
Through Gods Holy Spirit. If I sin, God writes his Law onto my heart, which causes my Godly conscience to feel guilt. This guilt causes me to confess my sin before God.

I confess my sin before God, because I believe in his promise (1 John 1:5-10), to forgive me and to wash my sin away in the Blood of Jesus Christ. I wouldnt do this if I didnt have faith in the blood of Christ.

Kathryn please do me a favor today. Get alone with God and ask him to forgive you of your sins, and tell me what happens after the confession. If nothing happens, you are right. If something happens, continue to walk in the light you have recieved.
---David on 10/24/17


Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

( we already KNOW justification is by FAITH.....so is SANCTIFICATION. )

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

And again the most compelling is Galatains chapter 3

And again scripture saying THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.

David, the question is, how do YOU reconcile these truths?
---kathr4453 on 10/23/17




Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises..

David, this is what so many MISS. They either don't believe it, or just don't understand it.
---kathr453 on 10/23/17


And again David, as I pointed out before Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law, that is the Law pointed to sin which pointed to
Death.


Kathryn
Whats your definition of sin and do you believe its possible to sin after Jesus died on the cross? If sin is possible, how does someone sin without the Law?
---David on 10/23/17


But when we sin, and that sin is not confessed, as taught by Jesus in (Matthew 6:6-15), we become separated from God, as told in (Isaiah 59:2).

Which is why Jesus cried out on the cross, because he felt that separation for the first and last time of his life.
---David on 10/22/17

David , there are scriptures under the NEW Covenant.( you went back to the old, where Jesus fulfilled the old by taking our plac) but forget the NEW COVENANT promises....I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU OR FORSAKE YOU.

We DIED to sin David....if you obeyed Romans 6-8. And you also we are being chastened by our Father to be more like Him....not ignored. Only FAKE CHRISTIANS ARE IGNORED and left to their own devices and get worse as each day goes by.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/17


Paul taught obedience of faith, as James taught faith without works.....are saying the EXACT THING in different ways. The examples James gives ARE NOT THE 10 commandments. Rahab lying, and Abraham obeying God to sacrifice Isaac...are NOT the 10 commandments. Yet Abraham was said to have kept Gods commandments....WHICH commandments... The 10? NO! Those came 400 years AFTER Abraham.

And again David, as I pointed out before Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law, that is the Law pointed to sin which pointed to death. Jesus fulfilled that including that moment of separation WE would have experienced FOR US, so that TODAY those in Christ can be assured, GOD SAID I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU OR FORSAKE YOU.
---kathr453 on 10/22/17


Kathryn
It pains me how lost the church is today. Pain because the very foundation of Grace, taught by Christ in (John 14:21), is not being taught to those who desperately seek him. As folks are taught the very opposite, because they misunderstand Pauls, Not by Works but by Grace, teachings.

Grace, according to Jesus Christ, is received when we live in obedience to his commands. These commands are received, from him, through Gods Holy Spirit. But when we sin, and that sin is not confessed, as taught by Jesus in (Matthew 6:6-15), we become separated from God, as told in (Isaiah 59:2).

Which is why Jesus cried out on the cross, because he felt that separation for the first and last time of his life.
---David on 10/22/17


David, I agree your verses in Thess is exactly what Hebrews 10 is saying.

And it's Heb10 that I have been posting here ....ALL OF HEBREWS 10, which is the rejection of the very essence of the Gospel.

Hebrews 10:28-30

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/17


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loony1states, "God knew in advance that Adam and Eve would sin and he did nothing to stop it. So it must all have been part of his plan."

amen...

"I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
Isa 45:5-7
---john9346 on 10/21/17


Kathryn
The penalty for sin is death,....true?
Sin is the transgression of the Law,...correct? (1 John 3:4)...for sin is the transgression of the law.

If you agree these statements are true, how does someone sin, if we are not under the Law? Its impossible, and thats what I want you to understand.

Im speaking about the Law of Grace, Paul called the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. (John 1:17)

There was a penalty for those who didnt obey the Law of Moses and there will also be a penalty for those who dont obey the Law of Christ.
(2 Thessalonians 1:8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
---David on 10/21/17


So with that Obamasboy, split hairs if you want, but from Adam and Eve to Cain and Able, God showed exactly HOW one was considered righteous in His Eyes. Hebrews 11 will explain. Abel offered a BLOOD sacrifice, Cain did not. You see the outcome.

Job also knew about making a sacrifice....even for his children....

It was no secret until the Law or Jesus death and resurrection that man no matter what WERE SINNERS.

AND Mark_Eaton, again, I disagree with your scripture you are using to make some point that has nothing to do with...IN ADAM ALL DIE. clearly stated in Romans 5. It was ADams SIN that DEATH passed on to all man.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/17


It's interesting when someone doesn't like a verse it can be disqualified by saying...WELL, THAT WAS JUST SO AND SO's opinion Was Isaiah Isaiah's opinion too? Is Romans 5-8 Pauls opinion? More that you want to know believe that...barb for one.

We see a lot of that today with all of scripture people want to pick through.

In Adam all die. The reason for that Mark_Eaton was ORIGINAL SIN, death passed on to all man.

Job also before the Law of Moses, lived BY FAITH. So did Noah, Abraham, 400 years before the LAW, obviously had something beside the Law of Moses directing their way of righteousness.
---kathr453 on 10/20/17


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God knew in advance that Adam and Eve would sin and he did nothing to stop it. So it must all have been part of his plan.
---Loony1 on 10/20/17


Romans2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Also showing there is no such thing as total depravity where man has no conscience of right and wrong.

Romans 5 clearly say that from Adam to Moses there was no LAW. However before that and even now man has a conscience. Romans 1-2 say even without the Law of Moses they are without excuse.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/17


Kathr, the moral law of conscience? Really? You just made that up! That is nowhere in the Bible. The "law of conscience" is no law at all. That leaves everyone doing whatever is right in his own eyes. That's lawlessness. As Christians we are to obey God, even if it doesn't make sense to us, not do what seems right in our own eyes.

You are the one twisting Paul's words. There is no such thing as "the moral law of conscience". There is simply God's way and man's way. God's laws dictate what is moral, not your conscience or mine.
---ObamasBoy on 10/20/17


So we do see scripture that does actually God cannot look at sin.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/17

You are not reading Scripture correctly.

Habakkuk is telling God. God is not telling Habakkuk.

If this was in the portion of Scripture that said "thus sayeth the Lord" then I would say it was true about God.

But this portion is Habakkuk lamenting to the Lord. Look at its context in verse 2 where Habakkuk says "how long will I call for help?".

Habakkuk in verse 13 is telling the Lord "your eyes are too pure to look upon evil", not the Lord telling us or telling Habakkuk.

This verse proves nothing but Habakkuk's opinion.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/20/17


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I believe sin itself separated God from man when Adam sinned
---kathr4453 on 10/19/17

Then you do not believe these verses:

Heb 1:3 "And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power...."

Col 1:17 "He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together"

2 Cor 5:14 "For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died"

Jesus created and sustains all creation. He is our connection to God. We never lost this connection even when He died.

You are making Adam more important than Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/20/17


David, I believe you are twisting Pauls words in Timothy. There was no LAW, as in the LAW of Moses from Adam to Moses. There was the moral law of conscience. Now if I were born between Moses and before Jesus Death and resurrection, and belonged to one of the tribes of Israel under the Law, that would apply. TODAY I live after Jesus Death and resurrection, and the Law pointed to sin, where then Grace pointed to a remedy. Today as a saved sinner I live by GRACE through FAITH. And where we are taught the LAW is not of FAITH, also spoken in scripture. I live by the Faith of Jesus Christ IN ME. No I was not born that way, I was SAVED that way.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/17


(1 Timothy 1:9) 9 Knowing this, ....the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient

Kathryn
When you were born, when you came from your mothers womb, were you not born lawless and disobedient? If so, Paul says the Law was made for you.... True or False?

Or does the form of doctrine you follow, say you came into this world Righteous, from your mothers womb?
---David on 10/20/17


Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

So we do see scripture that does actually God cannot look at sin.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/17


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Mark_Eaton, your verses are great but stil do not PROVE God didn't look away from sin at that very moment. I still believe what I believe based on what was taught in the OT re the Tabernacle, Holy of Holies etc. nothing you say will change my mind or the minds of those who also believe as I do.

You are FREE to believe as you do as well. Trying to force verses out of context to fit doesn't work either.

Jesus said it, and if it were not so, He would not have said it. It has meaning....and NOT just that it was in Psalms 22. I believe sin itself separated God from man when Adam sinned, and is exactly WHY the Word was made flesh to reconcile man back to God.

But it also may be you don't believe in original sin.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/17


Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Well this verse NIX'S the shadow of turning theory. There is no shadow of turning with God, meaning He is as good as His Word. He will not lie or go back on His Word. And when you ask wisdom, ask in faith BELIEVING , not doubting His promises.

Mark_Eaton, we have a promise...that because Jesus bore our sin, took OUR judgement, and took OUR Wrath, that God said those now "In Christ", I will never leave you or forsake you. NOTHING can separate us from the love of God IN CHRIST JESUS, life, death nothing.

That's what you should be telling folks.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/17


when sin was placed on the "humanity" of Jesus, it was the humanity of Jesus who cried out.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/17

The "why" of my passion to show the Father did not turn away from Jesus on the cross, is that so many are trapped in religion, stuck trying to keep God "happy" with their performance of His laws.

They are told that the Father abandoned His Son on the cross and many feel no acceptance from the Father. They must keep the Father "happy" or He will abandon them.

What they do not know is that the Father did not turn. There is no shadow or turning in the Father. He is the one who pursues them. He desires none to be lost, and will leave the 99 to find them.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/19/17


15......16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/17

David, yes, and the doctrine I obeyed was total surrender. That's what yielding your members unto God means. I posted all those verses, in Romans 6 leading up to your verse, before and after. Also is again reiterated in Romans 12:1-2.

You have to read the WHOLE TEXT.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/17


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I hope people will remember in the NT age, the Lord doesn't want us working for Him, but He wants to work THROUGH US. That's the whole purpose of being filled with the Holy Spirit. NO longer I but CHRIST IN ME? This is what Galatians is teaching us...those who can hear. But that verse also beginsgalatians 2:20-21

I HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, AND IT IT NO LONGER I WHO LIVE, BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME, AND THE LIFE THAT I NOW LIVE IN THE FLESH, I LIVE BY FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD, WHO,LOVED ME AND DELIVERED HIMSELF UP FOR ME. I DO NOT MAKE VOID THE GRACE OF GOD, FOR IF RIGHTEOUSNESS COMES BY THE LAW, CHRIST DIED IN VAIN.

These verses compliment Romans 6.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/17


David, that is not what Romans 10:16 says at all...-Kath

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Kathryn
In the above verse, what leads to Death.....and what leads to righteousness?
---David on 10/19/17


Mark_Eaton, yes I have read all those sites you are using to make your case. And again, there are others who disagree. I personally believe at that very moment when sin was placed on the "humanity" of Jesus, who died in our place, it was the humanity of Jesus who cried out.

But like I stated, I don't want to argue about it. That just one more question we can all ask when we see Him.

Also,remember, a verse in Habakuk and one in Isaiah say Gods eyes are to PURE to look upon sin. Another verse says He does not near the prayers of sinners. Now we know Jesus was not a sinner, BUT Jesus still stood in our place..and suffered what we would have. THATS why He was made flesh...

---kathr4453 on 10/18/17


Mark, Kathr is only using the bold coloring feature to try to cover up her nasty oreo joke used on me in another blog.

She is too proud to admit she crossed the line and make an inappropriate joke.

NOT WORKING.

Saying sorry goes a long way.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/18/17


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13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15......16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/17


13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15......16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/17


The whole of the Mercy seat, Holy of Holies, High Priest etc, is a pattern of what and how God dealt with man.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/17

Jesus is the Mercy Seat. Where the intersection of God and man takes place.

Jesus is our path to the Father, our connection to the Trinity, to their life. Only thru Jesus is access possible.

Our sin has been dealt with, once for all time, for all men.

Rom 5:18 "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men"
---Mark_Eaton on 10/18/17


David, that is not what Romans 10:16 says at all....I posted Romans 10:16.

I believe your verse is from Romans 6, and I believe it also is referring to those who have FIRST been crucified with Christ and THEN raised up a NEW CREATURES, and what the NEW CREATURES is called to do....

The old man cannot under any circumstances obey any rules or laws leading to righteousness. Maybe self righteousness, but not the righteousness that comes solely by CHRIST IN YOU, and YOU IN HIM.

Without the two ^ things I just stated above first taking place.....it's only self righteousness. Read again Pauls own testimony in Philippians 3.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/17


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I feel safe in stating MY CONVICTIONS backed by scripture, not backed or not backed by what anyone else says.
---kath4453 on 10/17/17

Here are Scriptures to back up my understanding that God can and does look upon sin:

2 Cor. 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf..."

Gal 3:13 " Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us..."

Job 1: 6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them"

Gen 6:5 "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"
---Mark_Eaton on 10/18/17


Kathryn
What I was trying to show you in (Romans 10:16), was that Paul said sin leads to death, and its obedience which leads us to righteousness. Obedience to God in the Protestant Church, due to their misunderstanding of Pauls teaching, has been given a BAD word, the word is W-O-R-K-S.

Sin is being used as a comparative in the verse with Righteousness. Sin is an ACT, an act which leads to death. Which means Obedience to God is also an ACT, an act which leads to Righteousness.

Now if this is true, how can someone say GOOD WORKS doesnt play a role in our salvation, when Paul clearly says its what leads us towards Righteousness? Paul made this same comparative in (Romans 2:6-8), which Protestant doctrines ignore.
---David on 10/18/17


Mark_Eaton, I don't want to get into an argument with you over this...

But just one question if you would answer please. Do you believe in OSAS? I think ..possibly your thoughts on this may be part of your understanding on this issue.

WE! Those who are saved, have a promise...saying I will NEVERTHELESS leave you or forsake you. That promise can ONLY apply to OSAS folks. Why, because again Jesus paid the price in full for our sin. And when we are tried tested, we MIGHT say...Why have you forsake me, Showing a lack of faith = SIN in Gods eyes. Yet Jesus said it....and it was NOT a moment of weakness or lack of faith which would be sin actually. That sin would have NIXED the whole thing.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/17


Am I wrong to assume that if we are still sinning, our sins have not been taken away?
---Loony1 on 10/17/17


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Mark_Eaton, Psalms 22 could also say anything that could be repeated at the cross. Just repeating something ? Or don't you think the actual meaning also has significance?

Because Jesus was forsaken ..(God looking away when our sin was placed on Him, ) TOTALLY ENSURES Gods promise to us that He will NEVER leave us or forsake us....Why,? Because Jesus suffering what we would have ensured that.

The whole of the Mercy seat, Holy of Holies, High Priest etc, is a pattern of what and how God dealt with man. No one could enter the Holy of Holies, where God abided , ( a picture) except the HIGH PRIEST, and not without blood...FOR THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE. TODAY all can come boldly to,the throne of Grace.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/17


Correct Mark.

People are not aware that Jesus was just citing Psalm 22.

Just as if anyone would start citing Abraham Lincoin's Gettysburg Address.

All they would need to say "Four score and seven years ago..."

If that person stop speaking everyone would still know the rest of the address.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/17/17


Mark_Eaton, just my last comment of this subject. Our faith should be based completely on our OWN study and conviction, and not on...."WELL, There are two theories etc." my faith is not in theories EVER.

My beliefs are not based on anyone's theory, and that is WHY I feel safe in stating MY CONVICTIONS backed by scripture, not backed or not backed by what anyone else says.

For you to be so dogmatic about NOT believing it, based in OTHERS THEORIES, is not a convincing argument, especially where no scripture backs up those theories. We all know it was in reference to Psalms 22, Just as Jesus Virgin Birth was prophesied. But AGAIN, the virgin birth itself has deep deep significance, not JUST that it was prophesied.
---kath4453 on 10/17/17


My God My God WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME?
---kathr4453 on 10/17/17

You may not know, but there are other theories for Jesus saying this on the cross.

Here are two.

First, perhaps Jesus wanted those around Him to start quoting Psalm 22. Read it for yourself. However, if you read Psalm 22 with Jesus on the cross in mind, it easily describes the agony and actions during His death.

Second, when Jesus became our sin on the cross, the sin interfered His relationship with the Father. Jesus lost sight of the Father and temporarily felt forsaken. But, He was not forsaken as it is not possible for a separation to take place.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/17/17


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Nowhere in the Bible is this dogma recorded. Yet, it is constantly repeated in pulpits all over the world.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/17/17

Well, I'm glad it is taught from pulpits all over the world, because it is true. Jesus who is God...His own words...My God My God WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME? Right out of Gods mouth..... And we know God cannot lie....yet you say Jesus LIED when He said that? You see, you just want to say...Oh Jesus was really this or that, or that is jot why He meant......yet YOU have no scripture to back up your denial of Jesus ( GODS) own words.

I gave you the foundation for this....yet you don't understand it. There are more scriptures .....but why bother with those if your mind is made up?

---kathr4453 on 10/17/17


Take away in 1 Jn 3:5.

The first thing that came to mind is remove.

In checking G142 airo. To lift, take away, put away, remove and more
---Chria9396 on 10/17/17


Romans10:16 But they have not all OBEYED THE GOSPEL. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Now here is what Romans 10:16 really says David. So yes, one must OBEYTHE GOSPEL. And to OBEY THE GOSPEL, one must know what THE GOSPEL IS.

THE GOSPEL is clearly stated in 1st Corinthians 15:-1-4. Jesus DIED and rose again FROM THE DEAD. He was not stashed away playing solitaire for 3 days as some hoax.

Then Romans 10-9-10 tell us what must be done with THE GOSPEL definition in 1st Cor 15:1-4 to be saved.

Anyone who professes to believe THE GOSPEL but denies obedience of faith are described in James.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/17


What you are saying is Jesus REALLY didn't die, because God can't die....
---kathr4453 on 10/16/17

Nope. Not what I am saying.

What I am disputing is that God (specifically The Father) cannot look upon sin and therefore, turned His back on Jesus and was separated from Jesus while Jesus became our sin on the cross.

Nowhere in the Bible is this dogma recorded. Yet, it is constantly repeated in pulpits all over the world.

This dogma characterizes The Father as abandoning His Son and consequently, able to abandon and reject us.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/17/17


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People have a hard time understanding that concept because they are still drinking milk.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/16/17

Its even bigger than that.

We have been discussing since the 11th century in our Western Tradition (Protestant tradition), a theory of atonement that shows the Father to have a different character than the Son.

But how can the Father have a different character than the Son? The Son is the visible image of the invisible Father and has in Himself all the fullness of the deity. They share the same love, mercy, and passion for us.

If Jesus was able to say "go and sin no more", so must the Father.

No satisfaction of justice is necessary.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/17/17


David I agree, "obedience of faith", exactly what Paul preached, the Gospel according to the Mystery. Romans 16-24-27, Colossians 1:24-27, Colossians 2. That totally involves being crucified with Christ FIRST, if one reads from the beginning of Romans 5-8

That's what being sanctified THROUGH THE "BODY" OF CHRIST MEANS. Hebrews 10. Not possible in the OT. And again in Hebrews 10... is ONCE AND FOR ALL. No more year after year temporary coverings, and FOR ALL, means for the whole world. The sin debt has been PAID IN FULL FOR ALL MANKIND. The ONLY thing man now can do is believe and RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT... if you refuse it.....and refuse obedience of faith, YOU HAVE CHOSEN of your own free will to go to hell.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/17


And David, self sanctification is impossible, and a false doctrine again clearly explained in Hebrews 10.---kathr4453 on 10/16/17

(Romans 10:16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Kathryn
What does Paul say in the above verse leads us to righteousness? And isnt this what Christ taught in (John 14:21)?

God does the sanctification, true, but without your obedience to Christ, its not going to happen.
---David on 10/17/17


Mark you are correct. Jesus NEVER stop being God even on the cross.

People have a hard time understanding that concept because they are still drinking milk.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/16/17


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"The blood of Christ can TAKE AWAY sin. What does this mean?"
The atoning sacrifice of Jesus, did 'take away' sin. Sin has been removed, caused to cease for all who believe.
---Josef on 10/16/17


Mark_Eaton, many would disagree with you. Jesus was made flesh for the purpose of death....so His humanity died. What you are saying is Jesus REALLY didn't die, because God can't die....

That again doesnt interfere with the belief in the Trinity. The WORD was made flesh, ..also remember there was never "THE MAN CHRIST JESUS" before His incarnation.

There is one mediator between God and man, and that is THE MAN CHRIST JESUS.....The risen Christ....the Last Adam.

Also Mark., in the OT the VEIL is what symbolized sin separating God in the Holy of Holies from man....and now we come to God THROUGH THE VEIL, THAT IS TO SAY HIS FLESH.

The veil was rent, opening the way also explained in Heb 10.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/17


Kathr, you said that self sanctification is impossible and you are correct. It is the Truth given by God in the law and the prophets plus the words He gave His Son to teach to His eyewitness disciples that sanctify us. God didn't entrust the Truth to just anyone but He sent His Son to testify to it. John 18:37.

"Sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth." John 17:17. God's Word is Truth. Jesus is called "The Word of God". Rev 19:13.

"Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." John 15:1-11.

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. John 14:6-7.
---barb on 10/16/17


David, I believe the TAKING AWAY is in contrast to COVERING. Hebrews 10 explain this very thing. Taking away means once and for all, Jesus sacrifice alone is sufficient to satisfy Gods judgement upon sin.

What I don't see you or the Church ( not all of coarse) preaching is Romans 6... That the ONLY way sin is dealt with in our daily life is to die to sin, by dying with Christ and raised up a new Creature, who now walks in the Spirit and not the flesh. YET still being in our bodies and in a sinful world, we still can stumble and fall., but we don't lose our salvation.

And David, self sanctification is impossible, and a false doctrine again clearly explained in Hebrews 10.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/17


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God cannot look at sin...to be in that moment separated from the Father
---kathr4453 on 10/13/17

I must disagree with these statements.

First, Jesus was always God even on the cross. In fact, Paul tells us in 2 Cor 5:21, Jesus became our sin so that we can be reconciled to the Father.

Second, Jesus was never separated from the Father. In John 16:32 Jesus tells His disciples they will be scattered but He will not be alone, because the Father is with Him.

Our understanding of the Trinity tells us that Jesus was always God, will always be God, and will always be in a relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit so close that it is described as "one".

This was true every second on the cross.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/16/17


Being reconciled to the FATHER is what salvation is about...not trying to,overcome sin.---kathr4453 on 10/13/17

Kathryn
I agree with you about salvation, but doesnt reconciliation to God the Father, come by way of fighting against sin? (John 14:21)

Its true that we, by ourselves, can not overcome sin, but through the power, which is in the blood of Jesus Christ, we can (John:1:12) KJV.
This is, the Taking Away,...the power, (Hebrews 10:4) refers to.

Churches dont teach it because it goes against what they believe. They don't believe it because they havent experienced the Taking Away of sin. I believe it because I have experienced it.
---David on 10/16/17


1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

It's all here, very clear to me. Also when Jesus cried out on the Cross.."My God My God why has thou forsaken me"....WAS THE EXACT MOMENT OUR SIN WAS PLACED ON Jesus Christ. God cannot look at sin.

That was the greatest most painful moment for Jesus...to be in that moment separated from the Father.
So many believe the physical suffering of Jesus was punishment for sin. NO! DEATH WAS. Jesus DIED for our sin. And gave us a second chance as the last Adam to have victory over death THROUGH HIM. ***Romans 6-8***
---kathr4453 on 10/13/17


Kathr, you obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do Not do well, sin is crouching at your door, and its desire is for you but you must master it." Gen 4:7.
---barb on 10/13/17


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Also Barb, no one, not even you can pay off your sin debt. You would have to shed your blood to do that. Jesus paid it all, yes with HIS BLOOD. He made peace with God through the blood of the cross. Again You cannot do that...

So yes, you are in a strange way saying you can shed your own blood to pay off your sin debt...which you cannot.

If you think you can WORK, to pay for something already paid....how is it you can equate Jesus blood with your self effort? No comparison. You simply stated in the post before your last one you deny redemption through the blood, and you deny the finished works of Christ. This is called APOSTASY.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/17


Barb, no scripture says anyone can OVERCOME SIN. We die to sin. We overcome the world, but that is totally different than overcoming sin. To overcome the evil one Satan, is not the same as overcoming sin. Satan did not make you do it. What you are saying is every human is demon possessed, and must overcome the ONLY reason they sin. Adam and Eve were not DEMON POSSESSED when they sinned. Their own actions led to sin.

Anyone who claims they are trying to overcome sin by imitating Jesus.....well, is false doctrine not even Jesus taught.

No one can come to the Father except THROUGH Jesus Christ. Being reconciled to the FATHER is what salvation is about...not trying to,overcome sin.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/17


Kathr, I never said that I could die for my own sin. Read it again. I said Jesus as the Passover Lamb paid the penalty for my sin with His blood. Does that mean He took my sin upon Himself? No. He bore the pain and the suffering for my sins but the choice to follow Him and pay off my debt is mine.

The Passover Lamb in the wilderness did not pay for anyone's sin, either. The sins of the people were placed on the scapegoat who was led far away from the camp.

Jesus resurrected because the grave could not hold Him. There was no sin on Him.
---barb on 10/13/17


Well actually Barb, your wrong through and through. But the fact is, only those IN CHRIST can the Father see or know at all. AND there is only ONE WAY one can be IN CHRIST, and that is to be crucified with Christ and raised a new creature. And because the Father accepted Jesus perfect sacrifice of His spotless Sons sacrifice( no sinners blood could do) Jesus rose from the dead. Only the Son of God who was made flesh for the purpose of death could do.

Without Jesus resurrection NO ONE would be going to heaven.

You can't die for your own sin Barb, unless you are a Mormon, who believe that.....are you???.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/17


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Is that true? Did God make His Son who knew no sin to be sin for us? No. Jesus was the Passover Lamb and the Passover Lamb was without sin or blemish, not even the tiniest spot on Him. Jesus paid the debt for our sin so that we could follow His example and overcome sin as He did. Rev 3:21.

It is up to each one of us to wash our robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:9-17. We must wash our own robes. Jesus does not cover us up with righteous robes to fool His Father into believing we have overcome sin.
---barb on 10/13/17


2 corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to sin for us. who knew no sin, that we might be made righteousness of God in him.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in light as he walk in light , we have fellowship with one another,and the blood of Jesus Christ his son cleanses us from all sin

1 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our saviour
Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and brought life and immortality to the light of the Gospel,
---RichardC on 10/12/17


David: Is that even possible? Many men say no, but (1John 3:9) says yes. For just like Noah was given the rainbow, and Gideon the fleece, this is the sign given to those who are born of God.//

True, because the Prophet Nathan told King David God forgave his sin 2 Samuel 12:13.

All still due to Jesus' Blood because Jesus isn't BOUND to time.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/12/17


The words Take Away, are not talking about the forgiveness or atonement for sin, for the animal sacrifice could also do this (Leviticus 4).

Many folks recieve forgiveness and atonement for sin, but few ever have their sin,Taken Away, as described in (Hebrews 10:4). If they did, if sin was removed, they would not sin.

Is that even possible? Many men say no, but (1John 3:9) says yes. For just like Noah was given the rainbow, and Gideon the fleece, this is the sign given to those who are born of God.

I dont wonder if I will be saved, I know, because I have been given this sign. I do not tell you this to brag, but to give hope to those who follow Gods Holy Spirit, instead of one of the doctrines of men.
---David on 10/9/17


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1st John 3:4-10 will tell you exactly what verse 5 means. Those who are willing to turn from their sins will be cleansed in the blood of Jesus because they know Him, hear Him and abide in His Words. Sin is the work of the devil and Jesus has been manifested to destroy the works of the devil. At the end of the age, all sin and sinners will be abolished, burnt up and given to the fire. Only the righteous will be standing. Also see Matt 13:37-43.
---barb on 10/7/17


It means exactly what Jesus says it means in the whole chapter of John 6.

As Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.

He is the Sacrificial Lamb and you must eat the Lamb to have eternal life as prescribed by Moses from God in Exodus 12.

So what Lamb are you eating?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/7/17


That's right...SO, The Heavenly Father sent a LAMB.

A sacrificial LAMB was necessary to purify the "FLESH"/sins of humanity because that of "bulls and goats" was insufficient.

Hebrews 1 says that Jesus made "purification for SIN"/flesh.

Hebrews also says that the Jewish sacrifices could not perfect the CONSCIENCE....so God sent the ETERNAL spirit to purify the CONSCIENCE (Hebrews 9:14).

The Jews only knew CREATOR God (they didn't know THE FULNESS of God). We know the ETERNAL dispensation of God (the FULNESS), the ETERNAL covenant--JESUS and the ETERNAL Spirit.
---faithforfaith on 10/7/17


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