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Christ In You

Whats the difference between you in Christ and Christ in you?

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 ---micha6489 on 11/13/17
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Paul: also Romans 8:28-29
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: THIS WAS NO SECRET MY GOSPEL THING. The 12 Apostles also knew Jesus of the seed of David was raised from the dead.

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory, that your faith and hope might be in God.

Peter DID preach the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Our faith is in GOD who raised Jesus from the dead. This was preached right from the get go. Even Hebrews 13:20-21 Michael_e also claims is another Gospel.

Talk about over splitting hairs only to leave one with all sorts of split ends.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/18


These verses are so profound, debunking not only Calvinism, but Hyper-dispensationalism.

Acts 19:1-4

19:And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 2/11/18


Acts 19 show JTB Gospel did not accompany the Holy Spirit. So late in Acts, hopefully Paul is preaching the correct Gospel tells them about the Holy Spirit that is to accompany faith in Jesus where Jesus promised AFTER he returns to the Father He will send. Well Jesus returns to the Father ONLY AFTER He is Crucified and risen.....which the apostles witnessed AND PREACHED. They preached to the Jews, that this Jesus THAT YOU CRUCIFIED. HAS RISEN and IS THE PROMISED ONE..therefore REPENT for the remission of sins, and RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Paul also,tells Gentiles they are NOW of the Household of God WITH ISRAEL...this very same Israel in Acts where the CHURCH BEGAN.
---kath4453 on 2/11/18


Ephesians2: 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

WITH THE SAINTS, and Household of God.....includes Saved Jews, Jews saved from Pentecost to today.

Jesus broke down the wall between us, making the 2 One new man.

It may have taken God enlightening Paul of this fact....seeing Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, ....but in no way states just because Paul was made to understand that Peters possible lack of grasping this truth at first caused him to preach another Gospel. Peter understood Gentiles ALSO received the Holy Spirit, via Cornelius, after Pentecost, where that was preached on a Jewish HOLY DAY AKA JUBILEE.
---karh4454 on 2/11/18


If Acts 2:38 is the gospel that saves today, there is no reason to preach the finished work of the cross for salvation.
When Peter condemned Israel for killing Jesus. He didn't preach the cross, instead said repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.
John, preached "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Mark 1:4
Shortly after Pentecost, and before God was to pour out his wrath, he saved Paul and made him the dispenser of an new message of Grace.
Paul describes a new creature, the church, the boC (2 Cor 5:17, 1 Cor 12:13). It's this church in which Paul says that he was FIRST( 1 Tim 1:16)
Making our pattern Paul not those believers looking for the end under the New Covenant at Pentecost,
---michael_e on 2/11/18




........the twelve apostles taught the same gospel as John the Baptist and of which the prophets spoke (Mark 1:4, Mark 1:15, Acts 3:19-21). ///////

WRONG. John the Baptist preached water baptism and NOT anything about the Holy Spirit. Yet Peter witnessed the Holy Spirit re Cornelius and REMEMBERED what Jesus said...Acts 9-10

Acts 3 Peter is talking exclusively to Israel who rejected and crucified Jesus.....and to REPENT here means to repent of that initial rejection....which Peter clarifies in Acs 3:26.

Acts 2:38-40 show RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT, is not John the Baptists gospel.

The Promise of the Holy Sprit BEGAN Pentecost and the CHURCH.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/18


Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God,

What Gospel was Paul preaching here? Was this some hidden secret never revealed to anyone by Paul?

Peter preached this as well, before Paul comes on the scene.

If Peter preached something other than John the Baptist..and Paul preached something other than Peter....there would be three different Gospels..... WRONG. Also The Kingdom to Israel was not PURCHASED with Jesus Blood...the CHURCH WAS, and it's Peter who shares this with us.
---kath4453 on 2/10/18


Acts 4:33 Says they witnessed His resurrection, not that they preached it.
Peter didn't preach the cross as a means of salvation, but as a murder indictment against the men of Judea and Israel.(Acts 1:22,23)
Rom 5:8 Paul says 'while we were yet sinners Christ died for us'(not the same)
Jesus taught Paul the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection for the Gentiles, and for the first time we could understand the meaning behind why the death and resurrection was necessary for all men
---michael_e on 2/10/18


Acts 1:6-7 clearly DEBUNK HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM.

michael_e's doctrine believes that all of Acts, until Paul arrived was that OTHER GOSPEL Peter preached RESTORING THE KINGDOM TO Israel. Nowhere did Jesus answer Peter YES. Actually, THAT Gospel won't be preached UNTIL THE FATHER DECIDES, and that is after the Church is translated out.

Acts 1: 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

If Jesus wanted Peter to preach this OTHER Gospel , He would have clarified and verified YES right there and then.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/18


Pauls gospel message was entirely of Christ, and so Paul stands alone in calling it the gospel of Christ and Christs gospel, but that he also calls it my gospel can only be explained by the fact that Christ gave it first to Paul exclusively.

No one else in scripture could claim my gospel, nor can we. We learned the gospel from Pauls writings, and the twelve apostles taught the same gospel as John the Baptist and of which the prophets spoke (Mark 1:4, Mark 1:15, Acts 3:19-21).
Paul repeatedly says that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to him (Eph 3:2, Eph 3:7, Col 1:25, Rom 15:15).
---michael_e on 2/10/18




ACTS 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.


michael_e's doctrine says the original 12 Apostles did not preach the resurrection of Jesus Christ, that they preached the LAW and not GRACE, yet ACTS 4:33 states otherwise. This great GRACE upon them, is the same GRACE that was upon Paul that he was called by, and also CONFIRMED by James, John and Chephis in Galatians.

And AGAIN only those DEAD TO SIN, can ONLY be in that position, VIA THE CROSS. THe Law, or Kingdom LAW never promised such a thing.

Being crucified with Christ DOES= THE MYSTERY OF CHRIST IN YOU, where the new Creature ONLY is dead to sin.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/18


Mixing law and grace is dangerous, as you are doing.
Paul says 'a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.' Me is singular.
Paul told Timothy 'Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.' Chief is head or first.
The dispensation of grace began with Paul. He explains that a dispensation begins with a revelation dispensed from God.(Ephes 3:2-3)
This grace was first given to Paul at his conversion.
(1 Tim 1:12-14)
The beginning of the dispensation of the grace of God was when Paul first received salvation from God freely apart from Israel and the law.
The Lord made Paul a pattern for those who would follow after in the gospel of the grace of God, and in the fellowship of the mystery.
---michael_e on 2/10/18


Gal 1:6 I marvel that YE are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel.

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. .....( with the EXACT same Gospel of GRACE)

Grace is I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST....GALATIANS 2:20-21. Showing CHRIST IN YOU, no longer I but Christ in me.....THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS= THE MYSTERY.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/18


Michael_e, overly dividing can be dangerous. We see this with Calvinism. Yours is called HYPER- dispensationalism....

Paul never said THE VERY DISPENSATION OF GRACE is committed unto me ALONE. GRACE is the core of this dispensation. (Markv stated God didn't want to save Asia, BECAUSE Paul was called somewhere else, also making claim that Paul was the ONLY ONE preaching the Gospel of Calvinism) ...go figure.

Paul never claimed to be the soul keeper and carrier of the Gospel of Grace. Remember GRACE is exactly what Romans 6 is talking about...The CROSS, being crucified with Christ, dead to sin, and dead to the law..IN THIS DISPENSATION. Just as PETER also stated...RESULTING In CHRIST IN YOU...the ONLY WAY He is in you.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/18


Rom 15:4 "learning" is not necessarily doctrine
Studying the Bible dispensationally isn't an invented theology.
People argue over what is a dispensation, but no one can dispute that the word is in the Bible and must be interpreted.
Paul was given a dispensation (Eph 3:2).
Some revelations dispense new information about how he deals with us, and how we are respond in faith.
Eph 2, Gal 3, and Rom 5 explain changes that occur as a result of Gods revelations and dispensations.
---michael_e on 2/9/18


Michael if you believe in Dispensationalism you do not follow Paul.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

2Timothy 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1John 3:4
Christ in us leads us in love to follow Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/9/18


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Paul writes that a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me (1 Cor 9:17) and that he is commissioned to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9).
These mysteries concern the Lord Jesus Christ and his operation in the world today: the gospel of Christ, Christ in you, and the new creature called the Body of Christ.
Many do not know the mystery nor Pauls gospel. They think their commission, gospel, and instructions come from the red letters of the Bible, or in the letters of the twelve apostles (Heb-Rev).
If you are a member of the boC,Paul is your pattern you are in Christ and Christ is in you.
---michael_e on 2/8/18


It's also important to note that DEAD TO SIN, is only used two times in the NT. Peter AND Romans 6 where Paul shows the only way for that to happen is to be crucified with Christ, being baptized into His death and raised a New Creature...where only THEN is CHRIST IN YOU, and you in Him. This most wonderful mystery Paul in Ephesians 6 explains by showing how we are bone of His bone, and flesh of His flesh...that mystical UNION with Christ....first revealed in John 17 THAT WE MAY BE ONE. Just as Adam and Eve were one

Peter too uses this term, showing clearly the CHURCH is built upon the Prophets OT and APOSTLES...AS IN PLURAL.

Now don't confuse DEAD "IN" SIN With DEAD "TO" SIN. Two different situations.
---kathr4453 on 2/8/18


I really wonder if the Prophet who prophecied Isaiah 53 COMPLETELY UNDERSTOOD Isaiah 53 at that time. I say no. Just as we today don't completely understand 100% Revelation. Even most of that is hidden form most and will not be fully revealed until we are ready to grasp.

Unfortunately those during the reformation THOUGHT they understood it, and claimed it happened in 70ad.

So JUST BECAUSE the Prophets didn't themselves understand what they prophecied, does not alter the fact that NOW TODAY we can go back to the OT and see EXACTLY what they did not u derstand...and Isaiah 53 is just one example.

It was hidden from their understanding.....however IT WAS THERE. It doesn't mean it never existed.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/18


Isaiah 53...But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed.

NO LONGER A HIDDEN MYSTERY...


1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Paul ALSO teaches this very truth in Colossians 2 and Romans 6 and throughout Pauls teachings, michael_e says is ANOTHER GOSPEL to Israel only. WRONG?

Only those CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST are DEAD to sin and only the CHURCH is CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/18


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Part of what you say is correct michael_e. Gentiles were never under any Covenants made with ISRAEL. However Abraham was NOT Israel.

Once you understand that, you will also understand Paul, the EXPERT ON The mystery, and his revelation of the Mystery he explains in Galatians. Paul was not guilty of 2 different gospels to Gentiles was he? Is that what you are saying...OR are you saying Paul suffered from schizophrenia and explained the Abrahamic covenant to Gentiles in Galatia that only CONFUSED THEM AND EVERYONE ELSE AFTER THAT even more?

My money is on Paul knowing EXACTLY what he was talking about and you and Les just don't.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/18


Being in Christ was always Gods plan for heaven and earth. Israel needing to be in the Lord was nothing new. Christ taught they needed to be in Him (John 17:21). Those in Christ according to prophecy were part of Israels kingdom covenants (John 15:5).
Those in Christ according to the mystery dispensation of Christ are part of a new creature, without Jew or Gentile (2 Cor 5:17, Col 3:10-11). Out of two, Jew and Gentile, God made one new man in Christ in this dispensation (Eph 2:15-16).
The dispensational difference is how we come to be in Christ.
The mystery of Christ explains how ungodly Gentiles could be in Christ without the law and the covenants. This mystery was unknown by the prophets in time past until revealed to Paul.
---michael_e on 2/7/18


John, I'm afraid it does...seeing Paul wrote Galatians, and never stated he was saved ANOTHER WAY.

Also John, the italicizes posts I posted prior was from got questions....that absolutely is NOT promoting Calvinism. That's why I put in italicize that I'm quoting from another source and not my words.

I suggest YOU read it.

Paul wrote Romans 4 as well, also establishing the Abrahamic Covenant whereby even Paul was saved by. The Everlasting Covenant or Abrahamic Covenant IS the ONLY covenant that has a GOSPE of ETERNAL LIFE. In that Gospel includes the MYSTERY that was hidden but now revealed....and it's not Calvinism.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/18


The first problem with Calvinism is it completely OMITS JUSTIFICATION, and totally confuses sanctification with the initial salvation experiencing. OR they put sanctification First and THEN justification second. Only those first JUSTIFIED by faith are THEN sanctified by the Spirit of Christ in you. You all place Christ IN YOu before Justification and then claim you were a special elect God picked out beforehand and the evidence is sanctification. WRONG. Justification is NOT the New Birth.....and if you get that wrong then your whole doctrine is wrong. You all put the cart before the horse. Now this may be what God promises "earthly Israel" since THEY ARE already the Fathers, ( but YOU Gentile John were not)
---kathr4453 on 1/27/18


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Kathr:

Ma'am, respectfully,

You do not understand "Regeneration."

I recommend, CARM and Gotquestions websites to provide you and understanding after you do so I look forward to dialogging wit you further on this topic.

Thank You,

John

BTW, the Abrahamic Covenant has nothing to do with Paul being regenerated by God's Sovereign Grace...
---john9346 on 1/27/18


Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy ( HIS MERCY IS 100% due to Jesus dying for the sin of the whole world, not some wim on Gods good humor) he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, ( as Ephesians clarified...AFTER WE BELIEVE.

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour,

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

HOWEVER, that transformation comes after we believe. And FAITH is not works, however after we are JUSTIFIED we STILL live by FAITH, which then is the evidence of our faith.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/18


John...happen to Paul WHEN????WHEN is the major issue....I believe this happens AFTER WE BELIEVE.....YOU said before.

So YOU clarify WHEN. According to Calvinism it happens BEFORE you believe SO THAT you can believe. Wrong answer. This is NOT taught under the Abrahamis Covenant, and THAT is my point. Abraham believed, and THEN it was imputed as righteousness is STILL in effect. One MUST first be Justified by faith....before regeneration takes place. Therefore the doctrine of Calvinism and the Abrahamic Covenant are in conflict. And again THAT was my point. I will stay with the Abrahamic Covenant Thank You.
---kathr4453 on 1/26/18


kathr states, "After regeneration, we begin to see and hear and seek after divine things, we begin to live a life of faith and holiness."

Thank you this the result of regeneration...

Now disprove that this did not happen to Paul keep in mind before responding Titus 3:5-7??
---john9346 on 1/26/18


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No John, YOU provide everyone here a definition and then try to prove through 2 scriptures that use the word ( it's only used 2 times in scripture) first STUDY THE OTHER ONE, as well, and show us EXACTLY what verse states Paul was Regenerated BEFORE Jesus struck him down on the road to demascus. Or that he was regenerated in his mothers womb...maybe that's what you believe ...WRONG AGAIN.

No John YOU explain how You THINK Paul was regenerated before his salvation. Even the other verse suggests NO SUCH THING.

If it takes those who FOLLOW JESUS in the REGENERATION given a promise....look it up John....cannot mean WHAT you think it means. Paul certainly was NOT following Jesus when set out to MURDER Jesus disciples.
---kathr4453 on 1/26/18


Regeneration is our rebirth, related to the biblical phrase born again. Our rebirth is distinguished from our first birth, when we were conceived physically and inherited our sin nature. The new birth is a spiritual, holy, and heavenly birth that results in our being made alive spiritually. Man in his natural state is dead in trespasses and sins until he is made alive (regenerated) by Christ. This happens when he places his faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:1).
---kathr4453 on 1/26/18


Regeneration is a radical change. Just as our physical birth resulted in a new individual entering the earthly realm, our spiritual birth results in a new person entering the heavenly realm (Eph 2:6). After regeneration, we begin to see and hear and seek after divine things, we begin to live a life of faith and holiness. Now Christ is formed in the hearts, now we are partakers of the divine nature, having been made new creatures (2 Cor 5:17). God, not man, is the source of this transformation (Eph 2:1) after we believe.(Eph 1:13)
---Kathr4453 on 1/26/18


So then TO FOLLOW JESUS IN THE REGENERATION, would mean we follow Him in death and resurrection Life, being raised up together with Him, and seated in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus. We are also promised to reign and rule WITH CHRIST.

Just as water baptism does NOT save infants who have no say, neither does any false doctrine that one is regenerated before they PERSONALLY show FAITH, and acknowledge they are a sinner. This is WHY the understanding of the Abrahamic Covenant is so very important to understand.
---kathr4453 on 1/26/18


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Kathr states, "No John, Paul was not regenerated before believing."

Ma'am, respectfully,

Can you provide for everyone here the definition of "Regeneration?"
---john9346 on 1/25/18


No John, Paul was not regenerated before believing. The scriptures CLEARLY SHOW Paul receiving the Holy Spirit AFTER he was struck down. If he were regenerated before, or aka being Born again before, he wouldn't have had that experience. Born again believers DO NOT GO ON A MURDERING SPREE TO MURDER THOSE IN CHRIST. Absolutely rediculous John.

I know how you read scriptures to try to validate your false doctrine. The MYSTERY is Christ In You, which when we become saved ALL OF US God uses to a lost world to REVEAL HIS SON IN US. This is our testimony ....and this is what HIS GLORY IN US MEANS.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/18


kathr states, " Here Paul is testifying to his salvation experience on the road to Damascus. His SON was not IN Paul prior to that day, as some think (Calvinists for one)

Kathr, in vs 15 Paul states he was regenerated before believing. This shows regeneration preceeds faith and repentance.
---john9346 on 1/25/18


Here Paul is testifying to his salvation experience on the road to Damascus. His SON was not IN Paul prior to that day, as some think (Calvinists for one) this is what that verse says. It's not...and today when we are saved we too REVEAL THE SON IN US to a lost world.

Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me, but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/18


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David, Christ in you, and you in Christ happen together instantly. Whether one knows it or not, the very moment one is saved you are baptized into His death and raised up together with Christ a New Creature. and Paul shows in Corinthians that that same Spirit is who baptized you into the Body of Christ, being made members of His Body.

John 17 Jesus prayed, I IN THEM AND THOU IN ME THAT WE MAY BE ONE, and that we share in His Glory , was only promised to the CHURCH. Israel will one day SEE His Glory, but we will actually be Glorified together with Him...and it takes both being In Christ and Christ being in you....happening the very moment you receive Him...then becoming a SON as only we THE CHURCH are.
---kathr4453 on 1/20/18


The imputation of righteousness by faith is due to you being in Christ (2 Cor 5:21). It is his righteousness imputed to you.
"You in Christ" concerns you being in his body, the body of Christ.

You received Christ in you when you heard and trusted the gospel of Jesus Christ (Eph 1:13, Col 2:6).
Paul prays that Christ may dwell in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17), and that we walk in him having received Christ in us (Col 2:6).

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9
---michael_e on 1/19/18


The difference?
Though most doctrines teach against it, you are not Born of God the instant you become a follower of Jesus Christ. You in Christ, is a follower who has yet to be born of God. Christ is in you, is a follower who has been Born of God, and God lives in them.
---David on 1/11/18


Trav, neither God or His Son failed. The lost sheep failed because they would not listen to their Messiah's voice. Actually, you are the one saying they failed, if I am understanding you correctly, you are saying Jesus was sent to them but couldn't find them. And if Jesus couldn't find them do you think He expects us to find them?

I have no pastor or preacher. My teacher is the Spirit of Truth, my way is God's way and my eternal life is Jesus Christ.
---barb on 1/10/18


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The lost sheep of Matt 15:24 and the other sheep of John 10 are all those who hear His voice and follow Him.
---barb on 1/10/18

He is the GOD of all. All who recognize and worship GOD in truth is expected of GOD.
That does not change who he was married to originally or the promises he made to them.
Slow your reading down and note who he is speaking to in Matt 10:6 and 15:24.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel".
Judah was not lost nor divorced. The North House of Israel was Jer 3:20. Every wonder why there were 12 Apostles, 10 servants, ten virgins, ten pieces of silver?
It is no matter if you don't but, enlightening if you seek and find.
---Trav on 1/10/18


Trav, Jesus was sent by His Father to the lost sheep of Israel. God knew where His lost sheep were and Jesus found them but they did not want to be found, not by Him. ---barb on 1/10/18

Barb...(my mothers name by the way) Your scripture references Judah. Judah was not lost nor put away/divorced. The Lost Sheep are the North House of Israel. Being divorced, they were scattered, dispersed, lost. In following scripture, your pastor/preacher is described. I say this because he hasn't shown you the difference.
Jer_50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
---Trav on 1/10/18


These are good reasons for Paul to reference the law and the prophets. None take away from Pauls special ministry to make all men see the fellowship of the mystery (Col 1:26, Eph 6:19).
When Paul uses other scripture (law and the prophets), it shows that Paul used all scripture for the profit of all, but it wasn't the only thing he spoke about.
1 Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
It's easy to figure that Paul quotes the law and the prophets for the same reasons we do.
The more important question is why the law, the prophets, and the ministry of the twelve never mention the hidden wisdom of God found exclusively in Pauls ministry.
---michael_e on 1/10/18


Trav,
Except for His disciples and a few others, the lost sheep could not hear His voice.
---barb on 1/10/18

The statement above is not correct. Your messiah and mine cannot fail, nor GOD who instructed the Prophets that Christ fulfilled. Your statement above without meaning to implies he and the prophets did. The examples are to many to give here, start with the Apostles...go to Jhn 4:12 the Samaritan woman at the well her father was Jacob.
Do you think Christ would make a statement and give the Apostles a command and it didn't come to pass.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Micah 7:20
Isa 59:20-22
Matt 20:14-16
---Trav on 1/10/18


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Trav, Jesus was sent by His Father to the lost sheep of Israel. God knew where His lost sheep were and Jesus found them but they did not want to be found, not by Him. He was not what they were expecting and not the Messiah they wanted and they set out to kill Him. John 10:31-32, Matt 21:33-46. Except for His disciples and a few others, the lost sheep could not hear His voice.

The lost sheep of Matt 15:24 and the other sheep of John 10 are all those who hear His voice and follow Him. That is the only way into the sheepfold. John 18:37.
---barb on 1/10/18


Paul stands alone ...also calling my gospel ... explained by the fact that Christ gave it first to Paul exclusively.
Right division reduces confusion
---michael_e on 1/9/18

Well, your confused division excludes the entire Bible except for a few parts you choose to misunderstand. Paul refers to the Old Testament over 260 times...as we would expect seeing as how this is all the prophecies and Israels story that he is explaining....to those "ethnos/nations that were divorced/put away from GOD. To be reunited like "two sticks". Who can do this? Put two sticks back together? GOD and his son Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 1/9/18


Jesus has made it very clear that there is only one Way into the kingdom/sheepfold. John 10:1-30.
---batb on 12/18/17

Was encouraged by re-reading again the scripture you posted.
There is no such thing as "Attack Sheep", so "Sheep" will be found in part by their nature.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Psa_44:11 Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat, and hast scattered us among the heathen.
---Trav on 1/9/18


Paul stands alone calling it the gospel of Christ and Christs gospel, also calling my gospel can only be explained by the fact that Christ gave it first to Paul exclusively.
No one else could claim my gospel. If we learned the gospel it was from Pauls writings. The twelve apostles taught the same gospel as John the Baptist and of which the prophets spoke (Mark 1:4, Mark 1:15, Acts 3:19-21).
Paul repeatedly says that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to him (Eph 3:2, Eph 3:7, Col 1:25, Rom 15:15).
The Lord revealed to Paul a mystery kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:3). Paul was the chosen of the Lord appointed to be apostle of the Gentiles (Rom 11:13, 2 Tim 1:11).
Right division reduces confusion
---michael_e on 1/9/18


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In reality, there are at least three, the old covenant, the new covenant, and the mystery of Christ.
---michael_e on 1/6/18

A "mystery" to you does not make bad interpretation a "reality" Gospel.
Self reflection with the multitude of witnesses supporting, reveals whether their Gospel aligns with truth or what they desire.
Christ's foundation words, prophetically realized state his mission. GOD's new covenant his purpose, with people mentioned. Ignoring or realigning the evidence is proof of false teaching or understanding in deficit.
Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 1/9/18


It is wrong to think that there are only two things going on in the Bible: the old covenant and new covenant. In reality, there are at least three, the old covenant, the new covenant, and the mystery of Christ.
Just as wrong is to think there are only two people of God in the Bible: old covenant Israel and the Church. Instead, there are three, old covenant Israel, new covenant Israel, and the mystery Church.
---michael_e on 1/6/18


...there are two Israels. One is the Israel that is seen throughout history that can trace their lineage back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The second is that part of historical Israel ... with circumcised hearts.
---michael_e

Your logic is partially correct but, scripturally lacking witnesses, which makes your opinions/theories, logic, null or worse.
It is correct that there are/was two houses divided in Israel. The Northern House composed of ten brother names and the Southern House of three names.
The "ethnos", "nations" of these three are who are spoken of in Romans, Galations etc, fulfilling all the prophets in the O.T. spoken of in the new. Paul references these over 260 times for witnesses.
---Trav on 1/5/18


If I am not joined to the body of Christ, I am not saved. Without the body of Christ there is no salvation today.
This is the great mystery revealed to Paul (Eph 3:3-4).
Anyone who thinks I can fall out of salvation, I must work for my blessings or inheritance, or that my salvation is joined to a nation, priest, or covenant doesn't understand this mystery of the boC nor how we are joined to it by grace through faith.
I am saved by the boC. I am sealed by the Spirit of promise. I am enriched and inherited by the Father of glory, as a member of the body of His Son.
Eph. 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Eph 5:32 This is a greeat mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
---michael_e on 12/26/17


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Samuel, if only the Gentiles need to be born again then I have to wonder why Jesus taught Nicodemus, a Pharisee and ruler of the Jews otherwise. In fact, Jesus told him that unless a man was born again he could not even see the kingdom of God. And why does Jesus chastise Nicodemus and ask him, "are you a master of Israel and do not know these things?" John 3:1-21.

Jesus has made it very clear that there is only one Way into the kingdom/sheepfold. John 10:1-30.
---batb on 12/18/17


Amen Joseph. Many forget the New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah. That Gentiles now become children of Abraham by being born again. That the church is Israel.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/17/17


Jesus Himself was the fulfillment of a promise made concerning Israel. For "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world." Jesus is the mediator of the new and better covenant made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Act 13:23>Act 5:31>Tit 2:11>1Jo 4:14>Heb 12:24>Heb 8:8
---joseph on 12/17/17


With Israel God operated with nations, intervening on earth according to his covenants with Israel.
Without Israel God is not operating with nations, and does not intervene on earth according to his covenants with Israel.
With Christ God succeeds at providing salvation by his grace through faith.
Few are ignorant that we now live in the time of history with Christ, but few understand we are living in a period without Israel, spiritual or otherwise (2 Cor 5:17, Gal 3:28, Gal 6:15).

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Romans 11:25
---michael_e on 12/17/17


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"Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: [and] whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,..And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,.. Neither is there salvation in any other: Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."
---joseph on 12/15/17


Israel will be restored. The covenants of God will be fulfilled. The law is holy, just, and good, and will one day be preached to all nations.
The mystery of Christ affects how salvation is preached. Salvation according to prophecy was through Israel, under the covenants, and accompanied by the law.
The mystery of Christ is how salvation comes to all without Israel, without covenants, and without the law. This hidden wisdom of God in Christ Jesus was kept secret since the world began, but is now made known to all nations .
---michael_e on 12/15/17


Faithforfaith said, " It may be a new understanding to many people, but The Lord is no longer "WITH" us (that changed at the end of the age of "TIME").

Forgive me, faith, but where are you living that you stand outside of TIME?

Sorry, but time has not ended, yet.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/17


Relative to Israel, prophetic of Jesus, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." The fulfillment, "When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son."
When Jacob, a descendant of Abraham, a descendant of Eber, of whom the Hebrew nation was named, was renamed Israel, it was given symbolically, and in the hebrew language the literal meaning of the name, as concerning Jacob, is "to prevail, and have power as a prince", as concerning Jesus, "he will rule as God".
---joseph on 12/12/17


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Paul says there is neither Jew nor Greek today in Christ (Gal 3:28).
The grace of God is now offered freely on the merits of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Instead of becoming part of Israel, Paul announces a new creature, the body of Christ.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace
Out of Jews and Gentiles, Christ made a new man.
We do not know any man after the flesh, whether it is Israel or American or European
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.
Nothing new about Israel
---michael_e on 12/12/17


"We are not placed into Israel, covenant.." "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh,...at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us," See Eph 2:11-22
---joseph on 12/11/17


You in Christ concerns what Christ does toward you, Christ in you is what Christ performs in you and through you.
Upon salvation we are not only moved to a new place in Christ as a new creature, but we are changed from the inside out with Christ in us.
We are not placed into Israel, covenant, nor into a religion, but into Christ,as a part of His body, and there by grace.
---michael_e on 12/11/17


"In Romans 9-11 Paul talks about who receives Israels promises. Romans 9:6 says that not every Israelite will receive what God promised to Israel."
Father has fulfilled all the old covenant promises made through Moses to the descendants of Israel, according to the flesh. See Jos 21:43-45>Jos 23:14.
It is the promise to Abraham, father of many nations, concerning his seed, which is Christ, the Israel of God, that is fulfilled under the new covenant.
---joseph on 12/9/17


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Without Christs' Cross work we could not be saved.
Salvation is not offered to us through a chosen nation. According to the great mystery of Christ, this salvation is possible because I am made a member of his body.
Every one who is saved today is a member of the body of Christ, which is now called the church.
In Romans 9-11 Paul talks about who receives Israels promises. Romans 9:6 says that not every Israelite will receive what God promised to Israel.
In other words, there are two Israels. One is the Israel that is seen throughout history that can trace their lineage back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The second is that part of historical Israel who by their faithful obedience to God serve him with circumcised hearts.
---michael_e on 12/4/17


"they are taught, that we become part of a spiritual Israel. But is this Biblical?" michael_e Is it? The olive tree is representative of Israel, the wild olive tree, the gentiles, and according to scripture the gentiles "were grafted in among them [Israel], and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree," which, if I understand the mystery, is Christ in us. "Salvation has come to the Gentiles". Gentiles in Christ are a part of His church. Making His Church a part of Israel, and Israel a part of His Church.
---joseph on 12/2/17


They both mean we have Jesus in us as our new growing inner Person > Galatians 4:19. The spiritual reality is the same and deeper than what any words can explain, I think. So, I am not sure I could really tell you what the difference is but > I'll try >

We "in Christ" brings out how God has brought us out of sin, so now we are in the body of Jesus > 2 Corinthians 5:17.

"Christ in" us brings out how Jesus is growing in each of us as our new inner Person.

Either term, though, fits with how every child of God is "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17). Either "in", then means we are "with" Jesus!!! (c:
---Bill on 12/2/17


Many are taught that when one is saved they become a member of Israel, but not the real Israel. Instead, they are taught, that we become part of a spiritual Israel. But is this Biblical? Is God finished with the Israel of the Old Testament?
The spiritual Israel concept is created from a failure to understand the dispensational shift from Gods dealing with Israel to the body of Christ. Many who subscribe to the idea of spiritual Israel, most always teach that Israel was an allegory for the church today, often referred to as the true Israel.
---michael_e on 12/1/17


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True Israel are the Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: 1Pet.1:2 And is addressed to a multitude of Nations verse 1.
They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: [Jew, Israelite or otherwise] but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Rom 9:8
The Israel of God are those who also walk in the steps of our faithful father Abraham, and Jerusalem which is above, is free, and is the mother of us all.
There is a natural Israel, (to which Michael refers), which is a type, and there is the Spiritual Israel that that type foreshadows. See Gal. 6:1-18>Rom 9:6
---joseph on 11/27/17


The church, which is the body of Christ, composed of Jew and Gentile does not have twelve tribes.
When the Bible talks about twelve tribes, it is not talking about the church of one body (Rom 12:5, Eph 4:4).
What is put in us is not the law in our heart, the power of positive thinking, nor the hope of feelings and healing, but Christ! and Him by faith.
This is the great mystery of Christ and the church. It is our job to come to a knowledge of it, and to make all men see it.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph 5:32
---michael_e on 11/27/17


Michael your first sentence is true and good theology. Thank you.

But the Israel analogy is not correct.

Hebrews 8:8,10 ....I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord I will put my laws into their mind and write them in their hearts: and I will be to their GOD AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE.

The Church is Israel today. See Ephesians 2.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/27/17


Upon salvation we are not only moved to a new place in Christ as a new creature, but we are changed from the inside out with Christ in us.
We are not placed into Israel, covenant, nor into a religion, but into Christ! ,,, and there by grace.
---michael_e on 11/26/17


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Also You in Christ is permanent...sealed until the day of redemption. And Christ in you....also means we are His Hands and Feet to continue His work on earth, that we may be ONE.

And Galatians 2:20 again show HOW one comes to have Christ IN THEM.

the Mystery kept secret Colossians 1:24-27 ....until the time Christ rose from the dead is Christ IN YOU. This is what makes the CHURCH so unique, and what Jesus fortold would happen as a result of His death and resurrection...prayed in John 17.... I in them and Thou in Me ,that we may be ONE.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/17


You in Christ is where you are placed according to Gods purpose. Your position is in Christ.
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus Eph2:6
You in Christ concerns you being in his body, the body of Christ.
If you in Christ is where you are placed according to Gods purpose, then Christ in you is where he is placed according to Gods purpose.
You received Christ in you when you heard and trusted the gospel of Jesus Christ (Eph 1:13,
Paul prays that Christ may dwell in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17), and that we walk in him having received Christ in us (Col 2:6).
---michael_e on 11/17/17


Whats the difference between you in Christ and Christ in you?
---micha6489 on 11/13/17

There is one verse that summarizes it:

John 14:20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you"

First, the phrase "you in Me" speaks of our belief, our trust in His faith:

John 1:12 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God..."

Second, the phrase "I in you" means His Spirit in us, the Holy Spirit:

John 14:17 "that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you"
---Mark_Eaton on 11/17/17


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