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We Need A Church

My wife and I recently moved to Kalamazoo Michigan and are having difficulty finding a church. We want one that preaches from the bible and also has traditional music (hymns). We find rock music (praise music) to be the wrong atmosphere for us. Any suggestions?

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Loony, could you explain what you mean by good deeds?

****Good deeds are unimportant. God does not like them. People who do good deeds don't go to heaven. All he is interested in is that we believe the right doctrines. That's all he cares about.---Loony1 on 12/11/17

What is your opinion on Matthew 25:31-45?

I am curious on how you interpret these verses:

V40 The King will reply, Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

V45 He will reply, Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.

Why would God determine one's destiny according to their deeds on earth?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/12/17


NURSE. Below are 2 of quotes of you + Cluny (also AXE, but lack the time to search through his posts).

You said:
James 2:16 makes it very clear the scripture here is talking about physical needs

Cluny said:
Matthew and James is talking about PHYSICAL needs

Faith in action goes far beyond physical good deeds to the physically needy, that even anti Christ Muslims, etc, do.
Faith in action is PRIMARILY seen as preaching the gospel to the SPIRITUALLY hungry (the lost) who lack JC our spiritual food/drink (1Cor 10:3,4), and spiritually naked (lost) who lack the garments of salvation (Isa 61:10).

Scripture is a SPIRITUAL (Matt 13:13, 1Cor 2:14), to SPIRITUAL people/Christians (on solid food).
---Haz27 on 12/12/17


Christians not only help physically needy (as antiChrist Muslims, etc do), but we PRIMARILY help SPIRITUALLY needy.
---Haz27 on 12/12/17

No body is focusing on "only on physical needs" but you are ignoring scripture when you fail to put your faith into action.
---NurseRobert on 12/12/17


NURSE. Abraham believed, obeyed. Christians likewise (Rom 4:2-5).

God's command?
BELIEVE ON JESUS, John 3:16.
It's God's will, John 6:40.
It's the works we're to do, John 6:29.
Unbelief in JC is the sin world is convicted of (John 16:9).

Consider above scriptures. Note BELIEVING ON JC is primary.
JC is SPIRITUAL food/drink (1Cor 10:3,4)
Through JC our former spiritual nakedness is covered by garments of salvation (Isa 61:10).

Why focus only on physical deeds (that even ANTICHRIST Muslims, etc do), when feeding & clothing the SPIRITUALLY needy (lost) fits God's PRIMARY command?

Christians not only help physically needy (as antiChrist Muslims, etc do), but we PRIMARILY help SPIRITUALLY needy.
---Haz27 on 12/12/17


---Haz27 on 12/10/17

James 2:16 makes it very clear the scripture here is talking about physical needs. Certainly spiritual needs are important, but if one is starving and in need of decent clothing, how do you expect them to deal with their spiritual needs?

James 2:20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
v. 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? v. 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
v 24:You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
---NurseRobert on 12/11/17




Samuelbb7 wrote: "Also that the Church of today is Israel. Ephesians 2."

The word church today is misused. It doesn't mean a building, a denomination or a country. The word "church" simply means "christians."

Samuelbb7 wrote: "So old Covenant has some truth for us."

Not just "some", but ALL. The difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is the difference between physical (old) and spiritual (new). All throughout the NT speaks of the laws of the OT.
---Steveng on 12/11/17


Good deeds are unimportant. God does not like them. People who do good deeds don't go to heaven. All he is interested in is that we believe the right doctrines. That's all he cares about.
---Loony1 on 12/11/17


CLUNY. There is no physical context to those scriptures as you hope for. God's word is spiritual, for His spiritual people.
Jesus said as much in Matt 13:13, confirmed in 1Cor 2:12-14 .

If it was physical, then you get false doctrines like the gospel of AXE where physical deeds done for the needy are the basis of one's salvation, even if the doer of these good deeds are like the Muslims who reject that Jesus is the Christ who died for our sin.

Atheists, Muslims, Hindu's, etc also do good deeds for the physically needy, but ultimately they are lost unless they convert and become Christians. Thus its clear physical good deeds are not the determining factor.
---Haz27 on 12/11/17


Haz27, where did you get the delusion that you could spiritually discern scripture?

The context in both Matthew and James is talking about PHYSICAL needs.

After all, how could Jesus ever be SPIRITUALLY hungry, thirsty, naked, imprisoned, sick, or homeless. like you are?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/17


NURSE. Very good, relevant scripture references you gave.

What do you think of the gospel of AXE, where he claimed that good deeds to the physically needy determines ones salvation, even if the doer of such works denied that Jesus is the Christ who died for sin?

As for James 2:14-26, in the example of feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, do you see this as physical deeds (which, BTW, even Atheists and Muslims, etc , do), or do you see it in spiritual terms (as scripture tells us to, Matt 13:13, 1Cor 2:14), as preaching the gospel to the lost who are the spiritually hungry (lacking Christ our spiritual food, 1Cor 10:3), and spiritually naked lacking the garments of salvation (Isa 61:10)?
---Haz27 on 12/10/17




NurseRobert: Faith equals salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) and works equal proof (James 2:14-26)//

SWEET, SHORT AND PREFECT
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/11/17


Michael Nurse good points.

Some good point also Steven.

But it is true love works.

One other important thing is that the New Covenant is made with Israel. Hebrews 8:8,10.

Also that the Church of today is Israel. Ephesians 2.

So old Covenant has some truth for us. As Paul says in 2 Tim 3:16 all scripture is for doctrine. Paraphrase.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/10/17


Faith equals salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) and works equal proof (James 2:14-26).
---NurseRobert on 12/10/17


There are two resurrections.

The first is the second return of Jesus when the dead in Christ shall rise and the living shall rise with the dead. This hasn't happened yet.

The second resurrection occurs at the end of the thousand year reign when all the other dead from all of history shall rise and be judged from the book of life - according to their works. Blessed are those that rise in the first resurrection.

The laws of God were instilled in the hearts of man since the beginning. Most men's hearts have grown hard. There are a few who performs God's true religion without knowing they are from God. God is a just god.
---Steveng on 12/10/17


Romans 9-11 has skeletons scattered all over it where people have tried to figure out if the passage applies to the church.
You need to remember the context of the passage. To determine the context, ask these questions:
Who is speaking? (authorship)
To whom are they speaking? (audience)
What are they speaking about? (content)
If Israel is the answer to any of these questions then the passage is not doctrinally applicable to the church today.
Israel has twelve tribes, twelve apostles, the church has one body, one apostle.
---michael_e on 12/10/17


SAMUEL. So are you saying that the thief on cross, or any other person making death bed confession of JC, are not saved because they failed to help a physically needy person?

What do you think of the gospel from AXE that an Atheist or Muslim, etc, who deny that Jesus is Christ who died for sin, are still saved if they did some ambiguous number of good deeds for the needy throughout their life?

NURSE Rob. You are exposed as a liar. See Was Hitler Socialist, post 12/3/17, which was same type answer I gave you about 3 weeks ago. Awaiting your apology, but doubt you will.
---Haz27 on 12/8/17


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To Looney Huh? I have no idea what hat is supposed to mean?

That all will be judged. Matthew 25.--Samuelbb7

What do you think this judgement is based upon?

Dear Haz27 This judgment is based on truth verses lies. Those who say they Love GOD and love their neighbor will care for others and the poor. If they don't they are showing they are liars and don't love GOD and don't love their neighbors.

It is like a fruit inspection. Works don't save. But love does works. We work because we are saved.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/8/17


Hello Relion

I have heard many atheists make the argument that since Jesus has not come already he is not coming.

The Bible says all in the world will hear the Gospel. The church is still working on that.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/8/17


samuelBB7 states, "Do the Scriptures teach Jesus entered the Holy of holies in 1844. I think they do. For Biblical reasons. Can you disagree with me and still go to heaven. Sure. We are saved by Grace through faith not by doctrine."

First, I appreciate your sincerity you said, "I think."

Next, according to Deut 18 if a prophet is wrong 1 time they were to be put to death, EGW was wrong many times and so was William Miller.

The questions here is if they lie about 1 thing how do you know the rest is true??

"Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearer." 1 Tim 4:16
---john9346 on 12/7/17


If Jesus left the Fathers side and no longer is our advocate and went into the Holy of Holies to begin judgment, you really want to believe that after 173 years He still has not completed the job. Perhaps you can consider lending Him your hand computer. Sorry but there has been far too many joes and janes that have tried to predict the 2nd coming of Christ and have failed in that attempt. The reasoning created by the SDA is simply a way to save face.
---Riolion on 12/7/17


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Samuelbb7 -That all will be judged. Matthew 25.

SDAs doctrinal beliefs hold that only those who observe the 10 commandments - that ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3) will only be those eligible for eternal salvation. That is NOT salvation by grace but by works of the flesh.

SDA desire is like the Judaizers that attempt to bring the believer back into the law for their spiritual walk.

Ask any Orthodox Jew if the SDA observed the Jewish Sabbath and they will quickly tell you that the SDA does NOT observe the Sabbath.

Suggest the inquirer find a more Biblical oriented church.
---Riolion on 12/7/17


That all will be judged. Matthew 25.--Samuelbb7

What do you think this judgement is based upon?

AXE thinks Matt 25 suggests that this judgement is based upon good deeds to the physically needy, even if one rejects that Jesus is the Christ who died for our sin.

Do you agree with AXE on this?

If not what doctrine do you follow about what this judgement is?
---Haz27 on 12/7/17


Joseph Smith died on June 22, 1844, exactly 127 days before October 22, 1844. Sarah was 127 when she died. Persia had 127 provinces during Esther's time. To clinch it, 127 is a prime number. So we have prime evidence that October 22, 1844 was an auspicious date.
---Loony1 on 12/6/17


Do the Scriptures teach Jesus entered the Holy of holies in 1844. I think they do. For Biblical reasons. Can you disagree with me and still go to heaven. Sure. We are saved by Grace through faith not by doctrine.

While there is no where near the room to show why I believe in 1844. I can prove this.

Jesus Christ is our High Priest in heaven.

Hebrews 3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

See Hebrews 8 and 1 John 2.

That all will be judged. Matthew 25.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/6/17


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The Scriptures do not teach that judgment started on October 22, 1844 much of the figures of Miller and others like him were prooven wrong...

The 19th Century was inundated with many believing the return of the Lord Jesus Christ. Charles Russel founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses also made these types of predictions.
---john9346 on 12/6/17


Rob: Sorry about your bad experience, but you are seriously wrong about this subject. Your opinions are your own, but please stick to facts and scripture here.


---Jerry6593 on 12/2/17


Jerry, Riolion is correct. When I was a teenager my parents became SDA and I was forced to attend along with the Pathfinders. My younger Sister attended Campion Academy and Union College. She shared with me some of her horror stories. I know more about the SDA than people realize and never accepted the teaching of EGW.
---Rob on 12/1/17


Riolin: You are wrong. The Bible does teach that the Judgement began on October 22, 1844. This fact was made prominent by William Miller - a Baptist. The Baptists also showed that Saturday - not Sunday is the holy Sabbath of the Bible.

Are you claiming that the Baptist religion is a false one?



---Jerry6593 on 12/1/17


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Samuelbb7 - I am a Seventh day Adventist and I believe we uphold the Bible.

That is simply untrue since SDAs believe many things beyond what the Bible teaches. For instance, did Jesus leave the Father's side in heaven to go into the Holy of Holies to begin judgment on 22 October 1844?

As to music, I love hymns as well but there is modern music that does glorify the Lord and aid in our worship of Him. Music is the number one problem many worshippers complain about but listen more closely to the words and see if they do glorify the Lord.
---Riolion on 11/30/17


After leaving the Army, it took over 3 years before I found a Congregation which actually went through Scripture verse by verse.
---Rob on 11/30/17


I am a Seventh day Adventist and I believe we uphold the Bible.

But many of our churches have fallen into the rock music style. To, as they say, keep the young people. So I can say you should visit our church. I can make no guarantees about the music.

Keep your eyes on Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/30/17


Finding a church is not hard in America. It's finding a "right division" church that is a problem.
It's basic doctrines that you should look for when identifying a new church fellowship?
I wouldn't recommend any recognized denominational church. Surely, there are brothers and sisters in Christ who attend denominational churches, but the mission and beliefs of denominations in the "handbook" is off the mark when it comes to the ministry of the mystery of Christ.
---michael_e on 11/30/17


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If you set up standards which humans can imitate, they can fool you into supposing they are Christian. Psychopaths have become pastors and priests of people who evaluate by superficial standards which evil men can fake. So, make sure with God, please.

And we need our examples who meet the standards which our Apostle Paul has given us >

1 Timothy 3:1-10

Note how these standards include things which are true of the person's character, which only God can know but is able to share with us so we recognize and honor His example leaders > 1 Peter 5:3, Hebrews 13:17.
---Bill on 11/29/17


Go to the nearest Catholic Church.

We uphold Marriage as a Sacrament.

And it can't be dissolved just because someone is having a midlife crisis (what isn't a crisis these days anyway?)

We believe marriage is between ONE man and ONE woman.

We believe life if from conception until natural death.

We believe parents and not the government are in charge of your children.

We believe parents are the MAIN teachers and FIRST teachers of your children.

WELCOME HOME
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/17


Cluny said, "If you can't do either, then publicly retract your statement."

Have you ever noticed that people have a tendency to ignore posts asking for more information, unless it will forward THEIR agenda?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/23/17


God does not require that we attend church to gain favor with Him. However, he does command us to study His word. The best place to learn about the Scriptures and sound doctrine is by studying within the congregation of saints of a properly functioning assembly.
Look for an assembly near you which has heard of the dispensation of grace or Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery.
God has provided the Word of God for us today. Open up your Bible and start studying daily.
---michael_e on 11/22/17


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StephenG, The only "parks" were for the rich, and they were privately owned BY the rich. No Jews, or ordinary people were allowed in. Didn't happen.

So both "cafes" and "parks" were both wrong.

Why can't you get it into your head that there is no mandate for people to stay at home and pray/praise God by themselves. Indeed, Paul in 1Cor 12:12-14 commands us NOT to do that. Also in Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/21/17


\\ If what was written in the NT would there be many more such documents? \\

I repeat: Please identify one such document, and give the appropriate quote.

Otherwise, admit you know of none.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/20/17


Cluny wrtoe: "...thousands of contemporary extra-Biblical documents ... please describe one such?"

John 21:25

Put on your thinking cap, cluny. Thousands of people who have witnessed the miracles of Jesus, the educated saw his miracles (Pharisees, teachers, etc), the Romans were meticulous in keeping records of Jesus' trials, the twelve apostles, church leaders (the teachers, other apostles, prophets, etc. Ephesians 4:11). Do you think that the only documents written in the NT were the only documents? If what was written in the NT would there be many more such documents? Even the authors of the letters in the NT said they have written other letters. Why do you mock?
---Steveng on 11/19/17


cluny wrote: "NOW you've re-defined "cafe" to mean any gathering spot."

If you read my post very slowly you will have understood why I used "cafe" instead of "gathering place." I am using the language of today to help people understand the language of Jesus' time. You wouldn't use conversational English when visiting another country, would you? People of today even think old English is hard to understand.
---Steveng on 11/19/17


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YOU, Steveng, were the one who said that the early Christians met in cafes.

NOW you've re-defined "cafe" to mean any gathering spot.

What youre saying, Steveng, is that you have NO PROOF of your claim.

As far as thousands of contemporary extra-Biblical documents attesting to the existence of Jesus, can you please describe one such?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/19/17


cluny, prove to me that cafes and parks didn't exist.

Besides I was using the word "cafe" colloquially to mean any social gathering place. Social gathering places have been around way before Jesus' time. Didn't Jesus meet on a mountain? How do you know it wasn't a space within the mountain that was considered a "gathering place?"

If your bible is your only source, you may want to open your eyes. Do you believe that the few documents in the bible are the only documents? There are tens of thousands of testimonials, personal journals, and letters written about Jesus - many can be found at three of the largest libraries in Eastern Europe and Egypt. Many also can be found at the Vatican.
---Steveng on 11/18/17


\\Do what the early christians did - assembled together wherever two or more are gathered - whether in a cafe, a park, or in one's home.\\

Steveng, please give Biblical proof--BCV--for the early Christians gathering in cafes and parks.

If you have none, but have reliable historical sources proving this happened, then you may quote them.

If you can't do either, then publicly retract your statement.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/17/17


The right way to choose a church is by sound doctrine. Do they believe and use the Bible? Do they rightly divide the scriptures? Do they compromise doctrine to tickle ears? Do they promote ministry work according to Eph 3:9
Lets stop the practice of putting Christians back under the law and teach them the power of operating according to Gods grace.
Its time to respect the blood bought liberty where
with Christ hath made us free! (Galatians 5:1)
---michael_e on 11/16/17

amen amen, and amen...
---john9346 on 11/17/17


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StevenG said, "Do what the early christians did - assembled together wherever two or more are gathered - whether in a cafe, a park, or in one's home. Having a small, like-minded christians gather is a whole lot better to grow and mature as a christian. As a small group, you also are accountable to one another."

And how is that worldly denominational gathering of ONE (you) doing? Still singing that same old song, aren't you?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/17/17


The right way to choose a church is by sound doctrine. Do they believe and use the Bible? Do they rightly divide the scriptures? Do they compromise doctrine to tickle ears? Do they promote ministry work according to Eph 3:9
Lets stop the practice of putting Christians back under the law and teach them the power of operating according to Gods grace.
Its time to respect the blood bought liberty where
with Christ hath made us free! (Galatians 5:1)
---michael_e on 11/16/17


Have you considered Orthodoxy? We have traditional music and hymns that go back to the 1st and 2nd century.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/17


CJ,

Sir, I'd strongly recommend a "Reform Baptist Church."to you and your wife.

Reform Baptist Churches Preach Christ Exalting Exegetical Sermons and present hymns that are the same style you find in the sermons. Scripture and prayer are the center and focus of our services.

If I can be of more help to you on how to go about finding a "Reform Baptist Church." let me know.

Peace to you,

John
---john9346 on 11/16/17


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First, the "church" ARE the christians, not a denomination or a building as most so-called christians identify the church as. Satan has had over two thousand years to infiltrate and divide christiandom up into over 65,000 denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. Is Christ divided?

Do what the early christians did - assembled together wherever two or more are gathered - whether in a cafe, a park, or in one's home. Having a small, like-minded christians gather is a whole lot better to grow and mature as a christian. As a small group, you also are accountable to one another.
---Steveng on 11/15/17


Yes depending on your denomination traditional smaller churches are more toward hymnal music like independent fundamental ,or freewill Baptist or church of christ
---Ariella on 11/15/17


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