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Throw Cross Into The Trash

Are you attached in any way to your collection of graven images - figurines, dolls, toys, jewelry, crosses?

If you own a cross could you throw your cross into the trash without having second thoughts?

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 ---Steveng on 11/18/17
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John 9346 said, "Also, if I bowe down, light candles and burn incense to the coins of Lincoln, Jefferson, and Washington then you are correct in saying, "I don't have to respond to any more questions from you about icons."

John, it was a question that StephenG brought up, but in the case of burning icons, which you want ME to do, then burn YOUR icons first!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/17


John: Nicole states, "But not in 2 King 18 they were worshipping the serpent as I discussed with Samuel."
Nicole, did you read vs 3, vs 5-7, and 12??
In Numbers 21 no one is worshipping/venerating the serpent...
Nicole listen, Moses he explains it to you,//


John you to listen, we are going in circle saying the same thing.

Samuel and I AGREES WITH YOU.

No one is worshipping the image in Numbers.

But their descendants did worship the SAME image in Kings.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/12/17


Nicole states, "But not in 2 King 18 they were worshipping the serpent as I discussed with Samuel."

Nicole, did you read vs 3, vs 5-7, and 12??

In Numbers 21 no one is worshipping/venerating the serpent...

Nicole listen, Moses he explains it to you,

Num 21:8-9

8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
---john9346 on 12/12/17


John:In numbers 21 the Israelites are not worshipping the serpent.//

But not in 2 King 18 they were worshipping the serpent as I discussed with Samuel.

Did you ever asked yourself why did Moses keep the bronze image?

Not only did he keep the image he placed it in a honorable place for all of Israel for everyone to venerate from of high.

Why do you think God made that move?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/11/17


Brendan states, "Even if bowing down, lighting candles and burning incense is done, we are honoring the person represented BY the icon, and not the icon itself. So, NO!"

Sir, this is worship you do know this right Exo 20:1-5?

Also, if I bowe down, light candles and burn incense to the coins of Lincoln, Jefferson, and Washington then you are correct in saying, "I don't have to respond to any more questions from you about icons."

BTW, there is no difference between Latria and Dulia...
---john9346 on 12/11/17




Nicole:In numbers 21 the Israelites are not worshipping the serpent.
---john9346 on 12/11/17


\\I believe the dead are asleep including Mary. So I have no reason to pray to dead people. \\

Does that mean you are right?

According to the REVELATION SEMINARS I took in the 80's, what Sdas believe in is not "soul sleep," but "soul extinction".

This, however, is a subject for another blog.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/17


THANK YOU, SAMUEL!

//The Bronze Serpent. True they looked at it and lived. We know now it was pointing to Christ. You have forgotten this part.//

No, I am Catholic. We have that reading every Good Friday and on Sept 14th

IMPORTANTLY they DIDN'T know about Christ. They DIDN'T believe they were worshipping the image.

//making the image is not wrong. Using it for worship. That is wrong.//

EXACTLY!

And Jesus said judging others is Worst! Matt 7:1

Diabetics CAN'T eat a cookies doesn't mean I can't eat a cookie.

You can't tell if I am a Diabetic anymore than if someone is worshipping a statue or not.

Israelites in Numbers 21 did not worship the image, but the Israelites in 2 Kings did.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/11/17


Matthew 22,19 - Shew me the tribute money. and they brought him a penny

Matthew 22:20 - And he saith unto them , Whose is this image and super scription?

Matthew 22:21 - They say unto him, Caesar's Then saith he unto them Render therefore unto Caesar's the things which are Caersar's : unto God the things that are Gods.

Matthew 22:22 - When they had heard these words, they were marveled, and left him, and went on there way.
---RichardC on 12/10/17


The Bronze Serpent. True they looked at it and lived. We know now it was pointing to Christ. You have forgotten this part.

2Ki 18:4 NASB
He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it, and it was called Nehushtan.

So making the image is not wrong. Using it for worship. That is wrong.

We have only one High Priest. Or Pontifex Maximus. Which is Latin for High Priest. Our High Priest is Jesus.

Hebrews 3:1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 4:14
---Samuelbb7 on 12/10/17




Samuel, how come you all NEVER explain Numbers 21:8-9 when it comes to graven images?

WHY?

Not only did Moses had to MAKE the GRAVEN IMAGE but God told the people they had to LOOK at the graven image if they wanted to LIVE!

Not at Him to LIVE, but at the graven image.

IF they disobeyed they were DEAD!

All that AFTER the 10 Commandments was given to the people.

Please explain?

Is God forgetful in your opinion?

If we are SO WRONG, someone, ANYONE please explain NUMBERS 21:8-9

Don't ignore the question as usual.


//I believe the dead are asleep including Mary.//

Yet, Scripture goes against your opinion again and again.

Rev 6:9-11
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/17


MONK, THANKS FOR A GOOD AND HARD LAUGH!

****After all, YOUR graven images are so important that you put them in a special place, to honor and protect them. And you use different engravings called "checks" to have a computer transfer them to another person. And YOU worry about me bowing down and censing images of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ?
---Monk_Brendan on 12/9/17
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/10/17


Cluny how many had statues? Also many of then were burned down. So you can only count a few.

Now did they light candles to these images? Did they pray to the people the images represented?

I believe the dead are asleep including Mary. So I have no reason to pray to dead people.

GOD is love not hate.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/10/17


Last night, there was a very interesting program on PBS about old wooden synagogues in Poland, many of which were destroyed during WW2.

They all had the same architecture as Orthodox Churches in the same period and region.

Furthermore, they were as painted on the inside with decorations and even images.

My point is that the Jews of Poland were NOT iconoclastic.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/17


John 9346 said, "Here is the real question...yes or no?

Monk Brendan is this what you...do?


Even if bowing down, lighting candles and burning incense is done, we are honoring the person represented BY the icon, and not the icon itself. So, NO!

As far as your second question, NO, this is not ALL I do. But I do have computer access, my monastic superior has given me permission, and he takes the time to read what I am saying.

BTW, sitting in front of a computer is about all I can do, because I am a fall risk, and I have a tendency to drop things, and I am in pain all of the time. I do typesetting for our publications, and I pray. That is ALL I can do, and typing is getting problematic, now, as well.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/9/17


Sorry, John,. but until you tell me what you are doing with all of the graven images in YOUR pocket, I don't have to respond to any more questions from you about icons.

After all, YOUR graven images are so important that you put them in a special place, to honor and protect them. And you use different engravings called "checks" to have a computer transfer them to another person. And YOU worry about me bowing down and censing images of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ?
---Monk_Brendan on 12/9/17


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Cluny and Brendan,

Gentlemen,

Those 2 blogs I provided shows in details not just me answering your question, but I dealt with it in Context Claim.

Brendan sir,

You should know that the Icon Controversy wasn't just settled by 1 of the 7-ecumenical Councils, it was a while before a finalization.
---john9346 on 12/9/17


brendan said, "Plus, as I told StevenG at the beginning of this thread, you, too MUST burn every Treasury Note (graven images, true?), plus, you MUST flatten, deface, or otherwise rid yourself of these graven images on coins.
They are, after all, graven images. Deut 7:5.

Monk Brendan,

Here is the real question is SamuelBB7 and Steveng bowing down, lightening candles, burning incense and saying prayers to these images yes or no?

Next question, Monk Brendan is this what you as a Melkite Catholic Monk do?
---john9346 on 12/9/17


\\Samuel BB7 said, "True Monk. But I believe the Iconoclasts were correct when they banned icons."
\\

But the reason the iconoclasts gave for rejecting the Holy Icons were gnostic, not scriptural, and ultimately wound up rejecting the Incarnation and even our redemption.

We're seeing a NEW iconoclasm today, where any visual reminder of even the Cross of Christ is banned from public view and placement, in many places.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/17


Samuel BB7 said, "True Monk. But I believe the Iconoclasts were correct when they banned icons."

That's fine. Start your own Church, then. Plus, as I told StevenG at the beginning of this thread, you, too MUST burn every Treasury Note (graven images, true?), plus, you MUST flatten, deface, or otherwise rid yourself of these graven images on coins.
They are, after all, graven images. Deut 7:5.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/8/17


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++cluny ask, "Please say when and where this was done, and the people who led this movement."

john9346:Sir really? lol

Aren't you familiar with the 7-ecumenical Councils?++

Notice that john did not actually answer my question.

If john had read the decisions of the 7th EC, he would know that the Orthodox Church approved of the proper use of the Holy Icons. echoing the words of ST. John of Damascus.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/17


Ma'am, hear the Word of the Lord God and repent, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I Yahweh thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me," ---john9346 on 12/5/17

Sir, Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

Do you have another lord besides Jesus?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/8/17


True Monk. But I believe the Iconoclasts were correct when they banned icons.

Their point from the Bible and the Ten Commandments is correct. Not the words of the councils.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/8/17


John 9346 said, "Aren't you familiar with the 7-ecumenical Councils?

Also see blogs, "Eastern Orthodox Doctrines." and "Orthodox Hell Bound Priest." I dialogged with you from a Historical Basis pertaining to icons and other doctrines of Eastern Orthodoxy."


John, Have you ever read the 7th Ecumenical Council? I have. It states that Icons may be used in the home and Church. Obviously, you didn't read far enough.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/7/17


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cluny ask, "Please say when and where this was done, and the people who led this movement."

Sir really? lol

Aren't you familiar with the 7-ecumenical Councils?

Also see blogs, "Eastern Orthodox Doctrines." and "Orthodox Hell Bound Priest." I dialogged with you from a Historical Basis pertaining to icons and other doctrines of Eastern Orthodoxy.
---john9346 on 12/7/17


\\you do know icons were denounced and condemned as heresy by the church. \\

Please say when and where this was done, and the people who led this movement.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/6/17


Nicole states, "John, if you were honest with yourself and mediate on this for a while you would realize that Jesus is the living ICON of God. I think your lack of understanding of Icons gives you strength to attack another's faith."

Ma'am, hear the Word of the Lord God and repent, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I Yahweh thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,"
---john9346 on 12/5/17


John, if you were honest with yourself and mediate on this for a while you would realize that Jesus is the living ICON of God.

God is Pure Spirit. No form, No shape.

I think your lack of understanding of Icons gives you strength to attack another's faith.

Be careful.

So did Saul

Acts 9
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/17


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cluny states, "While the Bible says that Pilate ordered the title to read. "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews," icons of the Crucivixion say, "The King of Glory"


First, those are titles given to the Lord Jesus of "Holy Scripture."

Next, Pilate's Actions were active happening in that moment, thats not so each time Eastern Orthodox go to liturgy to follow your argument to its Logical Conclusion...

You say I don't get it, but I notice you spend much of your time defending the claims of rcc,yet, why don't you defend EOC Dogmas. Just a couple months ago you did so when I called you on it. Is it because you don't understand what you claim to profess??
---john9346 on 12/3/17


cluny states, "This is a summary of what the Eastern fathers taught about the holy icons in the 7th century."

If your an honest man who loves and desire truth, you do know icons were denounced and condemned as heresy by the church. You were informed of this on the blog, "Eastern Orthodox Doctrines." You did admit to this happening in the church...
---john9346 on 12/3/17


Monk: "StephenG, you have yet to answer my question. Do you always burn your currency and deface your coins as soon as you receive them?---Monk_Brendan on 11/27/17

Stephen,

I am curious about your answer?

What do you do with the coins or bills?

Not only do they have pictures of men (soon a woman), but that have symbols of pyramids and other odd crazy things.

How do you square that with your day to day living?

I am not trying to be smart but wondering how you do function or justify the use of currency.

Maybe your answer will help another person who thinks like you and is having a hard time dealing with this issue.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/17


I said, "StephenG, you have yet to answer my question. Do you always burn your currency and deface your coins as soon as you receive them?

The correct answer is NO. Why do you hesitate?"


OH, I get it, you only answer me when you THINK you're right! Otherwise, you ignore me.

HYPOCRITE!
---Monk_Brendan on 11/27/17


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John, did you know that St. Luke (Gospel Writer) was credited of painting a portrait of the Virgin Mary?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/17


\\""... Through icons the Orthodox Christian receives a vision of the spiritual world." \\

To comment further on your posting, john:

To give an example of this, while the Bible says that Pilate ordered the title to read. "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews," icons of the Crucivixion say, "The King of Glory"--because that is what was really happening.

Do you get it now?

Probably not, but that's because spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/17


//I'm going by what Jesus ACTUALLY said. He said nothing about slapping on the head, nor about exorcism rituals.//

FOCUS!

Read and follow the questions and answers.

You asked me a question and I answered you.

You made an INCORRECT statement about Jesus and I CORRECTED you WITH Scriptures.

The Disciples COULD NOT cast the demon out and asked why not. Jesus said because they didn't PRAY! You claimed it was because Jesus didn't DIED yet.

NEXT I proved you WRONG by giving you another passage where 72 Disciples were happy and telling Jesus that the demons submitted to them.

//He spoke authoritatively to the demons, and they obeyed him and left.//

We were talking about the Disciples NOT Jesus
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/17


StephenG, you have yet to answer my question. Do you always burn your currency and deface your coins as soon as you receive them?

The correct answer is NO. Why do you hesitate?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/24/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: You thing you can trick people with your interpretation of the Bible, but it didn't work.

What "trick"? I'm going by what Jesus ACTUALLY said. He said nothing about slapping on the head, nor about exorcism rituals. He spoke authoritatively to the demons, and they obeyed him and left.

As I said before, go ahead and play around with the evil spirits with their rules.

How is taking Jesus at HIS EXACT WORDS playing by THEIR rules?!

I am following Jesus!

They why are you arguing with me when I am quoting exactly what he said and did? Is there some extra, hidden teachings of Jesus that you know about that aren't available to the rest of us?
---StrongAxe on 11/24/17


\\""... Through icons the Orthodox Christian receives a vision of the spiritual world." \\
This is a summary of what the Eastern fathers taught about the holy icons in the 7th century.

They would hardly stone modern Orthodox because of it.

Sermons, hymns, and of course the Bible reveal the spiritual world, too. Wee just don't limit how God acts to words alone.

As we sing. "No one could describe the Word of the Father, but when He took flesh from you, O Theotokos, He accepted description, and restored our fallen nature by uniting it to divine beauty. THIS IS OUR SALVATION which we proclaim in word and depict in the holy icons"

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/24/17


StrongAxe, don't try to spin the questions.

You asked me a direct question where I got the slapping of the forehead and entering of the demons and I answered you with an answered via YouTube.

The following Jesus' rules and demon's rules was about another question.

Stop trying to be funny and cunning.

You thing you can trick people with your interpretation of the Bible, but it didn't work.

As I said before, go ahead and play around with the evil spirits with their rules.

I am following Jesus!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/24/17


cluny ask, "Be specific, john.
Just HOW have we abused and disgraced these symbols?"

""An icon is not simply a religious picture designed to arouse appropriate emotions in the beholder, it is one of the ways whereby God is revealed to us. Through icons the Orthodox Christian receives a vision of the spiritual world."
Timothy Ware,
The Orthodox Church (Kindle Locations 3210-3211). Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition. p. 206)
---john9346 on 11/24/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: If you follow Jesus' RULES you have the authority over demons.

Exactly. Jesus told us how to handle demons. We don't need to look it up on Youtube. We don't need magical objects to help either.

Before the Holy Spirit came, the Apostles didn't fully understand him, and weren't fully committed. Peter denied Jesus three times, rather than risk being identified with him. Yet after Pentecost, that same Peter went willingly to his own crucifixion - because THEN, he had faith.
---StrongAxe on 11/24/17


StrongAxe, YouTube Exorcism in the Modern Church and How to keep the Doors to the Demonic Closed" by Adam Blai

//Jesus gave his followers authority over demons.//

Yes, that's why I said keep playing with their (demons) rules and not God's rules.

If you follow Jesus' RULES you have the authority over demons.

//Because Jesus had not yet died and the Holy Spirit had not yet come. They were MUCH stronger and authoritative in Acts.//

WHAT? I can READ the Bible

Jesus said because of lack of faith Matt 17:20 and Mark 9:29 by prayer. Nothing about Jesus still being alive.

Besides, explain Luke 10:17-19?

Jesus is still alive and all 72 Disciples following Jesus' RULES controlled the demons.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/17


Kathr4453 said, "Where do you come up,with this stuff? Oh I know ...it's called UNIVERSAL FAITH.. Others taught you that..right?"

And who made YOU the only true teacher of faith?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/23/17


\\If the prophets, apostles, or church fathers knew of what these religions have done to abused and disgraced these symbols there would be a stoning ceremony...
---john9346 on 11/22/17\\

Be specific, john.

Just HOW have we abused and disgraced these symbols?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/23/17


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Did you know that slapping a forehead of a possessed person gives entry to you by the demon?

Where did you learn that?

Evil spirits are superior beings to us. Keep playing with their rules and NOT God's rules.

Yet Jesus gave his followers authority over demons.

Even the Apostles couldn't expel the demon from the boy in the Gospels.

Because Jesus had not yet died and the Holy Spirit had not yet come. They were MUCH stronger and authoritative in Acts.
---StrongAxe on 11/23/17


Cluny and I know when people are TRULY POSSESSED BY DEMONS you CAN'T handle them and start calling Catholic or Orthodox Priests for HELP!

Even Hollywood knows who are the REAL Exorcists and they don't even have a bone in the fight!

Go ahead be foolish!

Did you know that slapping a forehead of a possessed person gives entry to you by the demon?

Priests have seen many Protestants Victim Pastors who come to them for HELP!

Evil spirits are superior beings to us. Keep playing with their rules and NOT God's rules.

Even the Apostles couldn't expel the demon from the boy in the Gospels.

In Acts as Cluny said the mere clothes that were BLESSED EXPLELLED the demons!

May God be with you all! TRULY!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/17


"I guess your Bible doesn't have the stories about the bronze serpent lifted in the wilderness that healed all those who looked upon it, or the bones of Elisha that brought a dead man to life, or the cloths taken from the Apostles used to heal the sick."
---Cluny on 11/22/17


Don't be foolish. It was their obedience and their belief that healed them, not the objects.
---ObamasBoy on 11/22/17


cluny said, "I guess your Bible doesn't have the stories about the bronze serpent lifted in the wilderness that healed all those who looked upon it, or the bones of Elisha that brought a dead man to life, or the cloths taken from the Apostles used to heal the sick."

But none of these symbols know the meaning that Eastern Orthodox, rcc, or Melkite Religions have given to them...

If the prophets, apostles, or church fathers knew of what these religions have done to abused and disgraced these symbols there would be a stoning ceremony...
---john9346 on 11/22/17


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\a cross, or blessed cross, or blessed water had POWER.\\

We know better, don't we Nicole, Monk, Reuben, and Ignatius, don't we?

\\ The Power of God works through people, not through objects. \\

I guess your Bible doesn't have the stories about the bronze serpent lifted in the wilderness that healed all those who looked upon it, or the bones of Elisha that brought a dead man to life, or the cloths taken from the Apostles used to heal the sick.

Try again.

Gory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/22/17


A piece of jewelry is not "blessed". A crucifix is simply that, a piece of jewelry and a symbol. It can be an expression of one's faith, for sure. But to say that the Jewelry is "blessed", or to imply that it has some sort of protective power is just yet another example Catholic idolatry rubbish.
---ObamasBoy on 11/22/17


There is no supernatural power in the symbol of the cross, blessed or not, anymore than there is some secret power in secret underwear. It's all witchcraft. I know many think exorcisms practiced using the cross as some sort of symbol that drives out demons the RCC do is itself demonic.

Even before Jesus died and rose again, Jesus drove out demons from people. His disciples did as well, even after Jesus resurrection and NEVER ONCE is there any scripture stating a cross, or blessed cross, or blessed water had POWER. The Power of God works through people, not through objects. Satan can counterfeit making his power work through objects. We saw that in ACTS with a talking statue, or someone making it look like a donkey was talking.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/17


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: A person willing to wear a BLESSED crucifix isn't vulnerable to demon in the first place.

A person with faith isn't vulnerable to a demon either. He just has to say with authority, "Get thee behind me, Satan!". Jesus specifically told us we are not to fear him who can destroy the body but cannot destroy the soul.
---StrongAxe on 11/22/17


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Monk, I see where I confused you.

I told you and Cluny that you both made excellent points.

Then I made the next comment of Matthew 7:6 to Steveng without typing his name before the comment.

I am sorry.

I was confused because I didn't know where the word 'Jewry' came from when I typed Jewelry.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/17


Nicole Lacey said she was confused, and I guess that I am, as well. You had said, "So I guess you are directing this question to Jesus as well since you used the word jewelry?"

Maybe some people deify jewelry, but I do not. I made my living (such as it was) with jewelry, and there is nothing divine about it. So, since the thread is about idolatry, why would I direct my comment to Jesus as well?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/21/17


Hello StrongAxe, THAT JUDGING!

//It says our weapons include faith.//

'INCLUDES' means it ISN'T alone.

//It never says our weapons include sanctified objects.//

Holy Oil isn't holy because of the oil.

It is HOLY because of the PRAYERS said by the Priests in the OT and NT.

//If a demon can't harm you because you're wearing a cross, but you become vulnerable as soon as you take it off, you're relying on an object to save you, not on God.--StrongAxe

What's with all these conditions?

I SAID BLESSED Crucifix.
It's the value of the blessing not the object that counts.

A person willing to wear a BLESSED crucifix isn't vulnerable to demon in the first place.

You are confused.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/17


Nicole_Lacey:

I'm not judging anyone. I have no idea what a person's motivations for wearing a cross are. That person himself would hopefully know, and can judge for himself. People who wear them just to show others how holy they are, are being vain, which is a bad thing. People who wear them as magic charms to ward off evil are being superstitious and idolatrous, which is a bad thing.

The Bible says we fight against principalities and powers. It says our weapons include faith. It never says our weapons include sanctified objects. If a demon can't harm you because you're wearing a cross, but you become vulnerable as soon as you take it off, you're relying on an object to save you, not on God.
---StrongAxe on 11/21/17


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Kathr, the question mark behind my statement posed to StrongAxe means he is suggesting the Israelites are Idolatries based on his statement.

Only you and Kathr think you all can read people's hearts can KNOW their thoughts.

//The serpent was a reminder of SIN, and were NEVER asked to worship it, but to LOOK UP AT IT, and by doing so acknowledging they were sinners.//

WRONG!

1. Moses was told to make it.

2. THEY were told to LOOK at it if they were bitten by a snake and DESIRED to LIVE.

NO FORGIVENESS OF SINS WAS INCLUDED JUST BY LOOKING at the bronze snake.

Only God can FORGIVE SINS NOT s bronze snake on a pole.

//Where do you come up,with this stuff?//

I can ask the same of you?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/17


Hebrews 11:1 - Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen,

Hebrews 11:2 - For by the elders obtained a good testimony,

Hebrews 11:3 - By Faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, So that the things which are seen were not made of things that are visible.
---RichardC on 11/20/17


Monk: Jewel-ry, not Jewry. Jewelry is the items of gold, silver, platinum, etc, that is used to adorn oneself. In many cases, precious stones are included. This would include an engagement ring, wedding ring, watch, pendant, earrings, and so on.---Monk_Brendan

????

I am confused.

Why are you directing that to me?

Who used the word 'Jewry'?

Only you used that word not me.

Steveng said 'Jewelry'.

I said 'Jewelry not 'jewry'

I had to look up that word because I NEVER seen it before nor used it before.

Even my spell check claimed it is a misspelled word.

Besides, pearls is in Matthew 13:45 is a piece of Jewelry of value as Jesus used it in Matthew 7:6.

Please explain
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/17


Nicole, please show scripture where the Israelites WORSHIPPED the bronze serpent. The serpent was a reminder of SIN, and were NEVER asked to worship it, but to LOOK UP AT IT, and by doing so acknowledging they were sinners.

Where do you come up,with this stuff? Oh I know ...it's called UNIVERSAL FAITH.. Others taught you that..right?
---kathr4453 on 11/20/17


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StrongAxe: Wearing a cross to show how holy you are is not,//

Judging again I see. How do you know they are wearing the cross JUST for the perception of being holy?

Did they tell you that was the reason they were wearing the cross?

//wearing a cross to protect you from evil spirits is not either,//

Who are you to tell people how to combat evil spirits?

1st people use 'blessed crucifixes' in assisting combat or preventing evil spirits from nearing them.

2nd it isn't any different from holy water. Evil Spirits themselves can tell if water has been blessed by a Priest or not.

//idolatry and magic fetishism.---StrongAxe

So the Israelites were worshipping the bronze serpent just for a healing?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/17


Nicole Lacey said, "So I guess you are directing this question to Jesus as well since you used the word jewelry? "

Jewel-ry, not Jewry. Jewelry is the items of gold, silver, platinum, etc, that is used to adorn oneself. In many cases, precious stones are included. This would include an engagement ring, wedding ring, watch, pendant, earrings, and so on.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/20/17


I treat jewelry, photos, symbols, etc. all as objects with specific functions, and they should be used for those functions, and nothing more.

Money is currency. Photos preserve memories. Symbols (e.g. bumper stickers) provide identification. Jewelry can be functional (e.g. watches, Medic Alert bracelets) or provide identification (e.g. crosses, lapel pins, etc.)

Once these enter proscribed areas, however, (e.g. vanity, idolatry, fetish magic), one should beware.

Wearing a simple cross because it identifies you as a Christian is fine. Wearing a cross to show how holy you are is not, and wearing a cross to protect you from evil spirits is not either, because the first is vanity, and the second is idolatry and magic fetishism.
---StrongAxe on 11/20/17


Monk and Cluny, excellent points!

So I guess you are directing this question to Jesus as well since you used the word jewelry?

Matthew 7:6

"Do not give dogs what is sacred, do not throw your PEARLS to pigs, if you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/17


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People should never throw anything away because of someone else's opinion. Every person stands or falls by their own conviction not others. We must not judge someone else's walk but it is judged by God and He alone should guide His people. May every Christian be led by God alone not man.
---Darlene1 on 11/20/17


Why should I, Steveng?

Do you throw away your collection of photos?

Do you refuse to buy periodicals because they have graven images in them?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/18/17


StevenG, I have a good question for you. Do you instantly burn all of your money when you receive it? After all, each and every piece of coin and currency has graven images on both sides, from the Penny, with Abraham Lincoln all the way up to thee $100 bill, with Ben Franklin. If I am to throw away or burn icons, crosses, etc., then by your own logic, you should BURN all of your money, and either melt down or deface the coins.

Don't even try to start preaching against me.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/18/17


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