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Christian Baker Wedding Cake

Should a Christian baker bake a wedding cake for a man and woman who are Hindu? Or divorced?

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 ---Monk_Brendan on 11/22/17
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Haz27:

Theodore Shoebat?! He's an extreme right pseudo-Christian wacko (and I don't throw that term around lightly). Christians are supposed to "love your enemies", but he actively wants LGBT people to be EXECUTED. The Golden Rule? Does HE want people who hate him to execute HIM? Not likely.

He did not go to LGBT bakers because he needed a cake. He went there SPECIFICALLY to provoke them into NOT baking a cake - just so he could whine about how unfair they were.

This is in contrast with LGBT couples who actually needed a cake but were forced to go elsewhere (and in at least one case, the contract was initially accepted, but only cancelled later when it was too late for them to make alternative arrangements).
---StrongAxe on 12/4/17


AXE. You fall back to the "according to the law I would be required to do so..." excuse to justify your support for YOUR side of politics, the establishment Left, in spite of its unjust laws against our rights and freedoms.

I guess that means you're saying that in 1930's Germany you would have likewise accepted and complied with (if working at a theater) the NAZI laws where Jews were forbidden from movie theaters, the opera and concerts.
Or if working at a German public school you would have complied with the NAZI law that Jewish children be barred from attending public schools.
Or if you were in a relationship with a Jew you would have ended it due to the NAZI law of racial purity.





---Haz27 on 12/4/17


StrongAxe: New Black Panthers stopping people in once city from voting in one election//

Ever heard of the roach factor?

The one you see represents hundreds you DON'T see.

It was on video. Many other polling stations had complaints as well.

//Republican politicians preventing people in may states from voting//

A BIG FAT DEMOCRAT BOOGEYMAN LIE!

I been voting in Alabama since 1992 in rural Alabama. NOBODY STOPPED ME!

//how about Trump, who pardoned Joe Arpaio for an ALREADY PROSECUTED contempt of federal court charge?
---StrongAxe

Ooooh let's NOT go there!

Obama BROKE the record on pardons, clemency and commuted sentences on FELONS esp. Drug dealers and your buddy Chelsea Manning.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/4/17


The left does not in general hate Christians. Many on the left are Christians.

What they oppose is the church controlling the government.

Ever read about life in Europe when the church ran the governments?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/4/17


AXE. You might to be right about that law. Reading up on those bakers I see the evil establishment Left under BO regularly threatened that religious liberty would be forced to submit to the likes of LGBT.

Those Christian bakers even had their first amendment rights removed by the establishment Left of state of Oregon.

Although 13 LGBT bakers who refused to bake cake for Shoebat were ignored by the Leftist dominated media and never charged.

We see similar unjust laws coming into Australia from the establishment Left.

Sadly, you are a Lefty who endorses much of the evil from the Christian hating Left.

Jesus warned this would come Matt 24:22. Wonder why you would even support the Christian hating Left?

---Haz27 on 12/3/17




Nicole_Lacey:

New Black Panthers stopping people in once city from voting in one election was bad. Republican politicians preventing people in may states from voting (by disingenuous voter registration laws) or from having their votes count (by gerrymandering) in all elections is much worse.

(It's a bit like what Stalin said - if you kill one person, it's murder. If you kill a million people, it's a statistic.)

Because both of the above are legal, even if they are reversed by courts, nobody would be prosecuted, even though the ultimate effects are much worse.

As for democratic AG refusing to prosecute a crime, how about Trump, who pardoned Joe Arpaio for an ALREADY PROSECUTED contempt of federal court charge?
---StrongAxe on 12/3/17


StrongAxe They do NOT NOT have the right to discriminate so, despite the fact that such discrimination may be part of their own beliefs. It is AGAINST THE LAW to refuse service, which is why such suits take place and are won.//

WRONG!

You can't ask me to violate my rights just to carry out your rights.

The Little Sitters of the Poor proved that and WON from the U.S. Supreme Court. The Obama Admin tried to FORCE them to pay for birth control for their staff.

You have strange stories and paste them Jesus. That extra mile walk didn't really pertain to soldiers, but to everyone. You and me.
Matt 5:39-48

It was in a series of things evil people can do things to us. Slap us, ask for a shirt, borrow money and etc
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/17


StrongAxe, Haz is correct. Remember the New Black Panthers preventing White voters from voting at the Philadelphia polling station 2008 Elections? It was on video. You can YouTube it.

J. Christian Adams under the Bush Admin's DOJ charged BP, Minister King Samir Shabazz and Jerry Jackson with Voter intimidation. But the Obama Admin. dismissed the charges.

Eric Holder REFUSED prosecute them!

Last time I checked Philadelphia was in America and Eric Holder was our TOP AG at the time!

That's the PC Haz was talking about! The Black Panthers were Black. They were helped to elect the first Black President who in turn appointed the first Black AG.

REVERSE RACISM

It's WRONG in either direction!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/3/17


Haz27:

You wrote: AXE. Yes, theres racists offended by other races. Worst offenders = BLM, Mid East Muslims. But such are excused by establishment Left, because its PC.
Its obvious racism should not be permitted. But establishment Left encourage PC racism.


No. Federal law PROHIBITS anyone (INCLUDING these groups) from discriminating with respect to race. I'm speaking about American law, not Australian law.

I would not enjoy providing services to satanists, nazis, etc. but according to the law, I would be required to do so, if I hung out a shingle offering my services to the public.
---StrongAxe on 12/3/17


AXE. Yes, theres racists offended by other races. Worst offenders = BLM, Mid East Muslims. But such are excused by establishment Left, because its PC.
Its obvious racism should not be permitted. But establishment Left encourage PC racism.

Different example in Australia was a PC Leftist publicly stating that those not PC on particular issue are not welcome at their store. This is ok as its merely philosophical values issue, and I now know what PC Leftist store to deny my custom to.

AXE, youre a Lefty favoring the Christian hating Lefts oppressive PC totalitarianism, regardless of its divisive racism, sexism, etc.

BTW, would you provide your services to likes of Satanic ritual, NAZI function, swingers Party?
---Haz27 on 12/2/17




Haz27:

There are still people who believe people of other races are offensive. They do NOT NOT have the right to discriminate so, despite the fact that such discrimination may be part of their own beliefs. It is AGAINST THE LAW to refuse service, which is why such suits take place and are won.

If LGBT bakers are refusing to bake cakes for Christians solely because of their religion, such actions should be equally condemned.

There was a Roman law that allowed a soldier to commandeer any civilian to carry his armor for up to one mile. Jesus did NOT say "refuse the Roman because he worships pagan gods and oppresses Jews". He said to comply and walk an EXTRA mile.
---StrongAxe on 12/2/17


MONK. Bakers, photographers, caterers, etc, have every right to deny their services for LGBT weddings, satanic rituals, or any other offensive practice that is so extreme as to offend their religious/philosophical world view.

13 LGBT bakers have done the same, denying their services to bake a cake for Christian group Shoebat. But these 13 LGBT bakers were conveniently ignored by Left's Fake News media, and also you and AXE.

What would you do if your services were requested in a Satanic ritual, KKK function, swingers party, etc?
---Haz27 on 12/2/17


Mark Eaton said, "God has joined men and women. LGBT is the separating of men and women. It is just as wrong as divorce."

What exactly did Jesus say negative about LGBT relationships, especially if they are legally married and monogamous
---Monk_Brendan on 12/2/17


StrongAxe said, "How is baking a wedding cake "participating in their sin"? It's a cake. People eat it. They don't jump into bed with it. Cakes are served at receptions, not weddings. How is a cake served at a party after a wedding any different from one at a birthday party (since bakers have no problem with those)?"

Thank you, StrongAxe! Someone is actually paying attention to how silly this, and other threads about baking cakes are!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/1/17


(I posted this to the wrong blog first)

Mark_Eaton:

You argue from absence. The absence of a thing is not the same as the forbiddance of a thing.

The Bible never said we are allowed to use cars, electricity, or internet. Does that mean they are forbidden?

Gen. 1:27. LGBT people can be both male and female.

The first marriage was a couple, yet Abraham and Jacob and David all had multiple wives without any complaint from God (proving "if it isn't mentioned, it's wrong" is incorrect).


ObamasBoy:

I did NOT use "illegal polygamist marriages" as an excuse for feminists to not cater a bigamist FLDS wedding. I did say feminist bakers in Muslim countries would have bigger problems.
---StrongAxe on 12/1/17


Jesus never taught anything against LGBT...
---StrongAxe on 11/30/17

Better read your Bible again...

Jesus creates all things, John 1:3.

And God created them in God's image, male and female, Gen. 1:27

And God created a helper (suitable) for the man, a woman (not another man), Gen. 2:22

And Jesus refers to this in answering the Pharisees asking Him about divorce.

And Jesus says, "what God has joined, let no man separate".

God has joined men and women. LGBT is the separating of men and women. It is just as wrong as divorce.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/1/17


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ObamasBoy:

Depictions of illegal activities are not illegal. Otherwise, many books and films (even the Bible) would be banned. -StrongAxe


Never said they were. I merely pointed out that LGBT marriages were illegal at the time of the incident because you used the fact that polygamist marriages are illegal as reason for a feminist to refuse to cater a bigamist FLDS wedding.

Also to point out the irony in the state dining and putting an entrepenuer out of business for doing the exact same thing the state does.
---ObamasBoy on 12/1/17


ObamasBoy:

Depictions of illegal activities are not illegal. Otherwise, many books and films (even the Bible) would be banned.


Mark_Eaton:

There are two different issues here: U.S. law, and Christian belief.

Fist, one cannot refuse Hindus. It is illegal to discrminiate based on religious belief.

Second, the reason Christian baskers give is religious belief - i.e. Christian teaching. However, Jesus never taught anything against LGBT but he DID teach against remarriage after divorce - so a Christian who refuses the former but not the latter BASED ON RELIGIOUS BELIEF is being hypocritical.
---StrongAxe on 11/30/17


Should a Christian baker bake a wedding cake for a man and woman who are Hindu? Or divorced?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/22/17

I rarely blog on political issues. And these blogs are becoming more and more political. I guess if I want to blog with you, I have to speak on political issues.

The issue is liberty, personal freedom.

Do I have liberty if someone forces me to do something I choose not to do?

The baker chooses not to bake for a Hindu couple. Is this discrimination? Perhaps, but according to Title VII of the Civil Rights act, Hindus are not a protected classification of citizens. Neither is LGBT a protected class of citizens. Neither are divorcees.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/30/17


StrongAxe, you didn't answer all of the question. But the part that you did answer is not constant. The bakers never refused to sell the LGBT couple a cake. As I pointed out before, the couple had been served many times by this bakery with full knowledge of their lifestyle. It was only when the couple specifically requested a cake with a topper depicting an illegal LGBT marriage that they were denied, because the bakery didn't do that. So the couple demanded a type of cake that wasn't offered by that bakery. Like a Christian singer being demanded to sing a satanic songs when they sing only Christian music. If a bakery only baking traditional wedding cakes is discriminatory, then a singer only singing Christian music is too.
---ObamasBoy on 11/30/17


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ObamasBoy:

I already answered that. Singers have repertoires that they sing. If you hire Barry Manilow, you can ask him to sing Copacobana (because that's one of his songs), but not Highway to Hell (because it's not).

If Satanists want to hire a gospel group to sing How Great Thou Art, they should be welcome to do so, and the gospel group would probably be happy to witness.
---StrongAxe on 11/29/17


StrongAxe, I'd like you to answer my last post on this thread. Thank you.
---ObamasBoy on 11/29/17


Haz27, I have a hard time ignoring you, because you are always making outrageous statements and errors in your Bible messages. Besides, you're only reading 125 word answers to some questions that have filled books with answers. I know the man Cuny, and his love of prayer and the Word.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/28/17


Should Christian wedding singers be forced to sing at Wiccan weddings and sing songs praising Satan? Should Satanists, Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, and Pastafarians be able to sue gospel music singers for discrimination against their religions if they refuse to sing Satanist and Islamic songs? Should a black caterer be forced to cater a KKK induction ceremony? Should a Jewish wedding planner be forced to plan a Nazi themed wedding?
---ObamasBoy on 11/28/17


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MONK. I know that you're friends with Cluny, thus your bias and praise for him.

But I speak based on what I've seen of Cluny's posts over the past years I've been on CN.

I know Cluny comes from southern Baptist background, and that he's now Orthodox.
I recognize that his knowledge of the history and traditions, etc of some mainstream churches is very good. Also he makes good rational comments and advice on many topics about life issues.

But when it comes to Biblical messages, from what I've seen over the years Cluny seems more like a babe in Christ.
---Haz27 on 11/27/17


Every church I have ever been in teaches this passage the way I explained it -StrongAxe

So? Haven't you heard that what is popular is not always right, and what is right is not always popular?
You choose to perpetuate a common misconception over what the Bible actually says? Shame on you!

What church teaches this?

Not a clue. I believe what I read in the Bible, not what churches teach.

And which rule don't I follow?

Your "If you accept A then you must also accept B" rule. Do you support polygamist and incestuous marriage rights?
---ObamasBoy on 11/27/17


ObamasBoy:

No, that's not what it means. Moses ALREADY told men who want to put their wife away to give them a bill of divorcement. Those wives could ALREADY remarry under the Law of Moses.

Note that Jesus said, "Moses said... BUT I say..." - he was adding something that Moses DIDN'T say. He said that if a man put his wife away, her remarrying was adultery, period, DESPITE the fact that Moses gave them am out through divorce.

I ask again, what church teaches your interpretation? Because it is different than what I've heard from any other church I have heard teaching on this (and I have heard quite a few different ones).
---StrongAxe on 11/27/17


Haz27 said, "I note that Cluny does have knowledge about history of denominations of some mainstream churches, and he also makes good points on some non Biblical life questions that are asked in topic questions."

Oh, how generous of you! You've got that totally wrong. Cluny grew up Southern Baptist before he became Orthodox, and his knowledge of the Bible and its topics is encyclopedic. On top of that he has spent years studying the Ancient Fathers, the disciples of the apostles, who knew them personally. And he knows what they taught, and their disciples, and so on. If anyone has it right, it's going to be Cluny.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/27/17


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Good points Strong Ax. Thank you.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/27/17


StrongAxe, I never said it was permitted for a husband to put away his wife. I said that Jesus condemned the putting away of your wife and commanded anyone who had put his wife away to give her a divorce because putting her out would cause her to commit adultery, since without a divorce she is still married. Divorce would not, as she would no longer be married to the first husband. A woman who is merely put away and not divorced is still married and thus prevented from marrying another man without committing adultery. Not a hard concept to understand. If a wife hooks up with another guy after being put out it's adultery. If she's been divorced then it's not. Pretty obvious.
---ObamasBoy on 11/27/17


MONK. I've seen Cluny's arguments about Biblical messages and he is nowhere near as good as you make out. He's seems more like a babe in Christ, still on milk.

I note that Cluny does have knowledge about history of denominations of some mainstream churches, and he also makes good points on some non Biblical life questions that are asked in topic questions.
---Haz27 on 11/26/17


ObamasBoy:

If this is a false equivalence, please show me HOW it is false. HOW is one non-biblical marriage different from another?

Also, your argument about divorce is not constent. You say it is permitted to put away a wife as long as you divorce her (as Moses allowed). Yet Jesus said a man who puts away his wife makes anyone who marries her commit adultery - he did NOT say "except it's OK if he divorces her too". How do you explain that?

Every church I have ever been in teaches this passage the way I explained it - I have NEVER heard your interpretation except from you and once from someone else a few years ago. What church teaches this?

And which rule don't I follow?
---StrongAxe on 11/26/17


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Obamasboy said, "Haz certainly seems to more than you and StrongAxe combined!"

O.B., Cluny can out Bible you in Slavonic, Greek and English. He has been an Orthodox Christian since probably before you were born.

Don't try to cross swords with him, you'll be ripped to shreds in nothing flat.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/26/17


ObamasBoy:

How is baking a wedding cake "participating in their sin"? It's a cake. People eat it. They don't jump into bed with it. Cakes are served at receptions, not weddings. How is a cake served at a party after a wedding any different from one at a birthday party (since bakers have no problem with those)?

Many Christian gun dealers insist it's not their fault if a customer shoots up a school. They only sell the gun. It's up to the customer to use it responsibly. THEY don't think they're participating in customers' activities. Only bakers and florists think so. Could it be that they LGBT weddings as much more heinous than mass murder? What other reason could there be for this dichotomy?
---StrongAxe on 11/26/17


if you accept A, you must accept B. If you reject A, you must reject B. To accept one and not the other is illogical, and to justify doing so in order to hypocrisy.
---StrongAxe on 11/26/17


This is a very ignorant concept because it assumes A and B are equal. The problem is liberals like to go around creating false equivalencies among things and lifestyles are not equal and demand that they be treated the same. Like how they demand that traditional wedding caterers be forced to also cater same-gender weddings. The demand is highly illogically and based on a rationale that is flawed from the beginning, because A & B are not equal.

Interestingly, liberals like StrongAxe don't even follow their own rule.
---ObamasBoy on 11/26/17


I answered both your questions very clearly.
---Haz27 on 11/26/17

No you didn't. What would YOU do to stop abortions?

Quit being a coward and answer the question.
---NurseRobert on 11/26/17


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AXE. You admit you're of the Left, and all your arguments are purely Leftist propaganda points, so clearly there's no objective, scholarly motivation coming from you.

As for spiritual understanding, our recent discussion on Matt 25 proved how you read the Bible purely in physical terms as a natural man would, and not spiritually as 1Cor 2:14 says. I still have no idea what gospel you follow after your ambiguous reply to my challenge of your understanding of Matt 25:31-46.

As for your attempt to obscure the physical parallel of the marriage between a man and woman to the spiritual marriage between Christ and church, we know you well enough to see you're merely derailing debate to justify your decision to be of the Left.
---Haz27 on 11/26/17


Samuel, there's a huge difference between loving sinners and participating in their sin. The bakers didn't refuse to service the LGBT couple. They simply refused to bake an LGBT wedding cake and to cater their wedding, due to not wanting to participate in the sin. The same LGBT couple had been served at the same bakery in the past, with the owners fully aware of their lifestyle. They were even regular customers.
---ObamasBoy on 11/26/17


Haz27:

My motivation in THIS argument is scholastic - i.e. to demonstrate what the bible does or does not say. Quit reading political motivations into EVERYTHING EVERYONE says. Is this projection, because everything YOU say is politically motivated?

You are not God, to declare someone else as lacking spiritual understanding.

How, specifically, is worshipping man different from worshipping other gods, as both are rebellion against God?

I'm not trying to justify anything. What I'm trying to do is point out logically inconsistent arguments - i.e. if you accept A, you must accept B. If you reject A, you must reject B. To accept one and not the other is illogical, and to justify doing so in order to hypocrisy.
---StrongAxe on 11/26/17


CLUNY & NURSE. Your deceit is tiresome. I answered both your questions very clearly. If you really want to join the debate then offer relevant talking points.

SAMMUELBB7. Why do you have so much hate in you? Is it because you're controlled by your hate mongering Leftist masters?

Do you think God was hateful when he described LGBT lifestyle in Lev 20:13?

I suggest you wake up to reality. The twisted LGBTQI agenda is being driven by the Left as part of their divisive identity politics. Stop being a part of this divisive hate.



---Haz27 on 11/26/17


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\\You dont actually think that YOU understand the Bible, do you?\\

I know I understand it more than you do, ObamasBoy.

That's why I'm Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/17


Haha. No, your lack of Biblical understanding is precisely why you are Orthodox.
---ObamasBoy on 11/26/17


I disagree with Jerry.

You should bake a cake for any person who asks.

Why because GOD loves all people even those who are sinners. We are all sinners. Some just hate some sinners more than others. GOD hates sin. He knows the hearts of all people who he died for. We are not to hate anyone.

I believe that law abiding U. S. Citizens should be treated with respect.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 11/26/17


Notice, class, that Haz27 did NOT answer my question, which I will repeat here.

**Do you believe that LGBT children--or those merely PERCEIVED as being so--should be bullied by their classmates?

Please answer yes or no. Don't waffle.**

Until Haz 27 answers this, this poster will be IGNORED henceforth.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/26/17


---Haz27 on 11/26/17

What would YOU do to stop abortions?

Stop being a coward and answer the question if you can..
---NurseRobert on 11/26/17


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AXE. Your comments dehumanizing unborn is consistent with Left's usual arguments to excuse abortion, thus it's clear your argue as a Leftist. It's good you oppose abortion, but by dehumanizing unborn babies you expose a political motivation.

You lack spiritual understanding so you're in no position to claim biblical correctness.

As for your desire to justify LGBT marriage, I'll explain the physical, spiritual parralel.

Any marriage between man and women is a physical parralel of the primary marriage, that of Christ and the church, Eph 5:32. And church submits to Christ.

As for LGBT marriage, that would be like mankind worshipping man, submiting to the flesh instead, which is rebellion against God.
---Haz27 on 11/26/17


Should a Christian baker bake a wedding cake for a man and woman who are Hindu? Or divorced?

Sure it's OK to bake a wedding cake for a Hindu couple or a divorced couple who wants to remarry - as long as they are not abominable sexual deviants such as LGBTQ.



---Jerry6593 on 11/26/17


Haz27:

My comments about the humanity of fetuses has nothing to do with the left. As I said, I oppose abortion, so legitimizing it does not help at all.

However, one issue I DO have is Christians who strongly believe some doctrinal position BECAUSE they believe the Bible teaches it - when, in fact, it doesn't. What I do is point out that it doesn't. Similarly, people who believe something because they think the bible doesn't condem it, and I point out where it does. This is about Biblical correctness, not political bias.

Do you believe marriage sworn before false gods is a reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church? If so, why? And if not, why should be honored, while LGBT marriages should not?
---StrongAxe on 11/25/17


Cluny: Do you believe that LGBT children--or those merely PERCEIVED as being so--should be bullied by their classmates?//

What kind of a question is that?

No one should be bullied!

Are you suggesting that Republicans want LGBT children or adults bullied?

Please answer yes or no?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/17


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CLUNY. Are you really that bad at comprehension, or are you just deliberately misrepresenting me?

I never said Axe was pro abortion.
Instead I said that to justify his support for the pro abortion Left, Axe dehumanizes unborn babies.
No doubt this helps him to feel comfortable with his political stance.

AXE. Gods view is marriage is between man and woman. You seem to disagree with this based on your Leftist arguments and deflections that only Christian marriages apply.
FYI, marriages between man and woman are a physical parralel of the most important marriage, that of Christ and the church (Eph 5:32).

LGBT marriages are just a corruption of Gods creation, reflecting the depravity and darkness of this world.
---Haz27 on 11/25/17


\\You dont actually think that YOU understand the Bible, do you?\\

I know I understand it more than you do, ObamasBoy.

That's why I'm Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/17


Cluny. Nobody should be bullied. But schools already have been proactive against bullying well before the Marxist Safe Schools LGBTQI deviancy indoctrination started being pushed by the Left throughout the West.

So again, Safe Schools is not against bullying. In fact the Marxist Safe Schools program actually does bully children and parents who do not submit to this Marxist indoctrination.
---Haz27 on 11/25/17


You don't actually think that YOU understand the Bible, do you, HAz?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/17


You dont actually think that YOU understand the Bible, do you?

Haz certainly seems to more than you and StrongAxe combined!
---ObamasBoy on 11/25/17


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\\And to add to that you are so far Left that you even dehumanize unborn babies to justify the Left's abortion/murder platform,\\

HAZ--Don't you get it? You have been repeatedly told that StrongAxe does NOT SUPPORT ABORTION!

And if you're thinking of accusing me (falsely) of doing so, know that I was a defendant in a $39 MILLION lawsuit for merely praying silently across the streets from the abortuaries.

Now, I have a question to ask you:

Do you believe that LGBT children--or those merely PERCEIVED as being so--should be bullied by their classmates?

Please answer yes or no. Don't waffle.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/17


ObamasBoy:

It's what the law of the land requires. When you open a shop to the public, you're not allowed to pick and choose whom to serve.

Don't you or your parents remember times only 60 years ago when that happened in the south, with many places that didn't serve blacks? Was THAT was OK? If stores can choose their clients, that kind of discriminiation is acceptable.


Haz27:

When have I "defended the Left's deviancy indoctrination of children"?
Again: Quotes from Bezmanov 1, Jesus 0.

I'm showing is that refusing LGBT cakes because they are non-biblical, one should ALSO refuse Hindu marriages because THEY are unbiblical. How can two people who swear an oath by a false god be considered married?
---StrongAxe on 11/25/17


Obamasboy said, "...because YOU would do it, that everyone else should be forced to abide by what Monk_Brendan would do,"

Having grown up in a family run business in my work career, I understand that saying "NO" to a customer is a bad idea. I remember one lady that wanted a pair of frog earrings. They were UGLY! But because one needs to make money to survive, you have to make a PROFIT, so you make the ugly earrings

This is not a moral situation, it is using my talent to create a earrings for whatever customer comes in. I wish I could say "I'm not hungry enough to want to make those earrings for you," but frankly, I haven't won the lottery or PCH, so I muddle along.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/25/17


"If I was a baker, if someone wanted me to make a cake to Kali (a Hindu god of death), I do it, take their money, smile and thank them."
---Monk_Brendan on 11/25/17


And of course, because YOU would do it, that everyone else should be forced to abide by what Monk_Brendan would do, based on YOUR own lack of principles.

You are worse than the bakers who refused to bake the LGBT cake. Even they never said no one should be allowed to bake an LGBT cake just because they didn't believe in it. You are trying to force your own personally held moral code on every business owner. They never tried to do that. They just asked to not be forced to participate in an act they believe to be a sinful act.
---ObamasBoy on 11/25/17


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\\You've often demonstrated your lack of understanding of the Bible here on CN.\\

You don't actually think that YOU understand the Bible, do you, HAz?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/17


AXE. You've often demonstrated your lack of understanding of the Bible here on CN.
And to add to that you are so far Left that you even dehumanize unborn babies to justify the Left's abortion/murder platform, you defend the Left's deviancy indoctrination of children, and you're comfortable with the Left's oppressive PC tyranny that persecutes anyone not PC, particularly Christians.
You're an example of how Yuri Bezmanov was right about the Left's brainwashing.

Christian bakers refusing to bake LGBT wedding cakes clearly support God's description of marriage being between a man and woman. The fact that you oppose their stance shows that you oppose God's position on marriage.





---Haz27 on 11/25/17


StrongAxe, you may want to reread those scriptures. You are grossly distorting what Jesus said. Putting away and divorce are two very different things. Obviously if a wife got a new husband after her old husband threw her out that would be adultery. This is why Jesus commanded men who throw their wives out to also give them a divorce.

And I don't rely on any church to interpret scriptures for me which need no interpreting. Im an educated man and can read just fine. I suggest you crack open the good book for yourself and stop perpetuating pre-concieved notions of what Jesus said. He never condemened divorce. He condemned husbands putting their wives away. He said they should divorce them instead.
---ObamasBoy on 11/25/17


monk brendan ask, "So the Christian baker has the right to not bake a cake for a LGBT wedding, but he does not have the right to refuse divorced or non-Christians. Where is the line drawn, and why?"

Because marriage is universal and not exclusive,threfore, the matter of what is natural and unnatural must be address.

You ask a very good question...
---john9346 on 11/25/17


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Haz27 said, "Check out Shoebat. They ask 13 LGBT bakers to make cake with similar (but opposite)message to what LGBT activists got Irish authorities to force a Christian baker in Ireland to make.
All 13 LGBT bakers refused."


I heard the first phone call he made, and he was calling a cookie shop, and not a bakery. I disagree with the idea that a baker (of any sort) open to the public would allow an employee to refuse service to anyone. If I was a baker, if someone wanted me to make a cake to Kali (a Hindu god of death), I do it, take their money, smile and thank them.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/25/17


Haz, I see the Moderator(s) are rejecting a lot of posts on this topic.

They rejected 2 of my posts.

It's okay to attack Christians even on a Christian website.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/17


MONK. CN did not allow my last post (maybe due to web link). Check out Shoebat. They ask 13 LGBT bakers to make cake with similar (but opposite)message to what LGBT activists got Irish authorities to force a Christian baker in Ireland to make.
All 13 LGBT bakers refused. Of course the Left's Fake News media said nothing about this.

AXE. You are quite irrational with your arguments justifying Left's lunacy and inhumanity, etc.
Atheist or Hindu man to woman marriages would not be a problem for Christian bakers. Why suggest such irrational arguments that somehow they compare to LGBT marriages?
---Haz27 on 11/24/17


ObamasBoy:

What church do you belong to that does? I have never heard such a theory ANYWHERE except from you, and one other person (whom I can't recall) raising it on these blogs once before.

Moses (not Jesus) commanded men who wanted to put their wives away to give them a divorce. Jesus said "Moses said ... but *I* say...". He said that a man who put his wife away AT ALL made her commit adultery if she remarried. He did not say "This only applies if he puts her away without giving her a divorce". He said "save for the cause of fornication", not "save for the cause of a legal divorce". He did not give the option of divorce at will, as Moses did.
---StrongAxe on 11/25/17


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StrongAxe, Jesus NEVER condemned remarriage after a divorce. You have made that claim several times and it is a lie. This is why you represent the absolute worst people in society. You lie constantly and pathalogically. You despise teuth and love to lie. Shame on you.

Jesus condemned husbands putting their wives away without giving them a divorce, thus causing their wives to commit adultery if they remarry. Jesus actually commanded husbands who put their wives away to give them a divorce. This is so that the wives could remarry without committing adultery, rather than continuing to be legally tied down to a husband who has put them away without giving them a divorce.
---ObamasBoy on 11/24/17


ObamasBoy:

Can a baker refuse to bake a cake for black clients? No! Yet you think that's perfectly fine.

The excuse Christian bakers give is their consciences forbid them from "participating in weddings that are not biblical". The Bible vigorously condemns unbelievers and people who believe in other gods, MUCH more than LGBT. Jesus also condemned remarriage after divorce. If they refused ALL of these, that would be consistent, but nobody has ever done this. Anyone who uses the Bible to justify not baking an cake just for LGBT clients is being very selective in his outrage.

Also, Christian gun store owners don't refuse to sell guns to people "lest they participate in murder". Again, selective outrage.
---StrongAxe on 11/24/17


Jesus NEVER forbade remarriage after divorce. He also never said remarriage is adultery. To suggest He did is a flat out lie. He said a husband who throws his wife out causes her to commit adultery. Which is obvious, as a woman who enters into a second marriage without having been divorced from her first would be in adultery, even though her husband abandoned her (put her away). This is why Jesus commanded any man who puts his wife away to give her a divorce, so that she would not be forced to remain married to a husband who has put her away, preventing her from remarrying. Contrary to expecting put out spouses to be alone the rest of their lives, he actually encouraged divorce so they would be able to remarry without committing adultery.
---ObamasBoy on 11/24/17


"Should a Christian baker bake a wedding cake for a man and woman who are Hindu? Or divorced?"

That should be up to the baker according to what their own conscience dictates. They certainly shouldn't be forced to do or prevented from doing so. And they should have the right to choose not to do business with anyone they please for any reason whatsoever.

On a separate issue, equating Hindus or divorcees to same-gender couples has to be one of the most asinine arguments for same-gender marriages I have ever heard.
---ObamasBoy on 11/24/17


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cluny said, "john,, Jesus said remarrying after divorce was adultery.
So you say a Christian baker should help in the celebrations of adulterous unions?"

Sir, i'd strongly suggest you reread the verses in there context...
---john9346 on 11/24/17


Haz27:

American racists refused to provide services to blacks, based on their religious beliefs. They were wrong. When you choose to compete in the public marketplace, you can't pick whom to serve. If someone walks into a store, you cannot turn them away based on who they are.

The Christian bakers in question refused to bake cakes for LGBT weddings as they are non-biblical. Yet none have refused cakes for atheists, Hindus, or divorcees, even though ALL of THOSE marriages are ALSO non-Biblical, and Jesus EXPLICITLY forbade remarriage after divorce. Refusing one but not the others is hypocrisy, and using the Bible to defend it is Phariseeism.
---StrongAxe on 11/24/17


Haz27 said, "MONK. A Christian baker should be able to refuse to bake cake that contradicts their values.
Gay bakers have similarly refused to bake a cake for Christians."


Please detail where ONE LGBT baker has refused to bake a cake for a Christian couple! I want the name of the newspaper, the volume and issue number, the page, and location on that page. If this is NOT written down, then it is just hearsay, not admissible in a court of law, and therefore not true.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/24/17


MONK. A Christian baker should be able to refuse to bake cake that contradicts their values.
Gay bakers have similarly refused to bake a cake for Christians.

In Australia a PC retail outlet publicly warned those against PC Leftist values (can't quite remember, but it was something like marriage equality or global warming) are not welcome.

The LGBT CEO of Qantas airlines boastfully claimed Australians will be forced to submit to PC Leftist values as corporations will all gradually come on board the PC bandwagon and the likes of Christians will have no choice but to submit to it.

The real threat are PC bullies like LGBT, Leftists, etc, as they dominate so much and have the power. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
---Haz27 on 11/24/17


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Hindu? Yes.

Divorced? Depends.
Most people don't know the details of other peoples divorce circumstances, thus are in no position to make any informed decision. A divorcee seeking to marry another may have been dumped by their selfish/cheating previous partner.

But a baker may know the details of the selfish partner who dumped their ex, and is planning to marry another. A baker in such circumstances can make an informed decision whether they refuse to bake a wedding cake.
---Haz27 on 11/23/17


Forgive me, but I said that John 9346 said yes and no, but he did say yes and yes.

Good for you, John.

But I do wonder why this was posted to the board with a tag of Paganism?

So the Christian baker has the right to not bake a cake for a LGBT wedding, but he does not have the right to refuse divorced or non-Christians. Where is the line drawn, and why?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/23/17


John 9346 said, "yes and no."

Very good answer, John, what it lacks in clarity it makes up in brevity.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/23/17


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