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Finish Here 2nd December 2017

Finish here 2nd December 2017

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 ---Nicole_Lacey on 12/11/17
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Well, since the books are not money, or jewels , which would suggest someone STOLE SOMETHING OF VALUE, it's silly to even make that as a comparison. It doesn't matter what the RCC says, because those books would be part of the Old Testament, before any RCC existed, and those books WERE NOT ACCEPTED as authentic Hebrew Scriptures.

The RCC is NOT the final say here, nor were they ever the absolute say here. Just because they set themselves up as the TRUE Church, which they are not, they think they can force these books down your throat. WRONG.
---kathr4453 on 1/5/18


Nicole states, "No John, they are DIRECT quotes of St. Jerome."

Nicole, pay attention:

I stated that those are Jerome's Quotations, but they're not stating in the entire context in the paragraphs that the apocrypha is "Scripture."

Listen closely, Jerome isn't even talking about the apocrypha he's addressing how monks should behave.

Please read par 1-19 of the letter.
---john9346 on 1/5/18


No John, they are DIRECT quotes of St. Jerome.

Many sources of quotes of St. Jerome.

Again, you are going against logic.

Martin Luther had a 73 book Bible when he was a Catholic Priest.

When he left the Catholic Church and the Priesthood he GAVE YOU ALL a 66 BOOK BIBLE.

THINK, THINK, THINK!

Pretend the books are money instead of books of the Bible.

If a man had $73,000 in the bank account on Monday while in France.

He arrived to England on Thursday with only $66,000 in the bank account you wouldn't tolerate the difference for one minute.

So why are you so willing to accept less when it comes to the Bible?

Which is more valuable to you?

MONEY OR SCRIPTURE?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/5/18


Nicole states, "St. Jerome quotes Proverbs 25:23 as fulfilling Scriptures, in the plural. Not just one Scripture. He then quotes the two Scriptures that it fulfills. One is Psalm 128:57 and another is Sirach 27:25. Scripture is thus fulfilled. Not ecclesiastical usage is fulfilled, but specific Scriptures are fulfilled. Notice that Psalm 128:57 is fulfilled by the proverb, but St. Jerome specifically also says another passage, which happens to be Sirach,"

This is "Patently False." The context of par 19 is addressing the Behavior of Monks and not the Apocrypha being "Scripture."

Ma'am, I'd suggest you read it... the context starts at par 1 not 19.
---john9346 on 1/5/18


*****"whoso casteth a stone on high casteth it on his own head." (Sir. 27:25) Jerome, To Rusticus, Epistle 125, 19 (A.D. 404), in NPNF2, VI:251

St. Jerome quotes Proverbs 25:23 as fulfilling Scriptures, in the plural. Not just one Scripture. He then quotes the two Scriptures that it fulfills. One is Psalm 128:57 and another is Sirach 27:25. Scripture is thus fulfilled. Not ecclesiastical usage is fulfilled, but specific Scriptures are fulfilled. Notice that Psalm 128:57 is fulfilled by the proverb, but St. Jerome specifically also says another passage, which happens to be Sirach,---

***St. Jerome in the Deuterocanonicals: Response to the Critique by Matt1618
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/5/18




Steveng, what you say may be true, but not for everyone. Much of what I was taught as a child THE LORD through the Holy Spirit as my teacher retaught me His truth. But you even want to question that as well.

Let every man build upon the foundation Paul laid Steveng, and receive either a reward of Gold Silver or precious stone, OR let it burn being wood hay and stubble.

It's nice that you care about what others believe, but ARE YOU BUILDING ...or just monitoring others building?

God alone will be the judge. Now we can plant seeds of truth ....but another still must do the watering, and God must bring the increase.
---kathr4453 on 12/29/17


StephenG said, "Many people today, including christians, read and interpret the bible using the knowledge they were taught growing up."

Which is what I have been saying for years about Protestants, when they put down Catholics, or their Church. They have heard from their mother, father, preacher, friends, etc. that Catholics can't be saved, or they are sinners and never getting to heaven, or whatever.

This also includes attitudes of clothing, alcohol, dancing, and so on. Christ calls us to REPENTANCE, not judgement.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/28/17


steveng states, "Many people today, including christians, read and interpret the bible using the knowledge they were taught growing up. The number of English words surpassed the one million mark a couple of years ago each having multiple definitions and many having opposite definitions than the original meaning. I'm not boasting,"

But the authors of Scripture didn't speak in some "Mystical Language." they spoke in Everyday Human Languages at this time Koine Greek and Hebrew.
---john9346 on 12/28/17


john9346 wrote: "...reading the Scriptures in context simply means to allow the authors to define their meanings of words, sentances in a paragraph.

Many people today, including christians, read and interpret the bible using the knowledge they were taught growing up. The number of English words surpassed the one million mark a couple of years ago each having multiple definitions and many having opposite definitions than the original meaning. I'm not boasting, but just to let you know that I've been an educator for over 40 years, mainly math and English, taught college for four years and I see the dumbing down of our children since the 1980s, especially with federally mandated common core curriculum.
---Steveng on 12/27/17


'Here begins the book of Tobit which is not in the canon, here begins the book of Judith which is not in the canon' and so forth for Ecclesiasticus, Wisdom, and Maccabees etc.

"the church reads them and permits them to be read by the faithful for devotion and edification. Their authority, however, is not considered adequate for proving those things which come into doubt or contention, or for confirming the authority of ecclesiastical dogma, as blessed Jerome states in his prologue to Judith and to the books of Solomon.
The Glossa Ordinaria
---john9346 on 12/26/17




Nicole states, "I already cited his words stating he would follow the Church's Authority."

As I recall you cited part of what Jerome stated not the full context... I actually provided the complete context to you please listen Ma'am...

Again, you are not addressing what he stated in context...

"A disagreement occurring 1200 centuries before Martin Luther started complaining about the SAME Scriptures!"

False, the Glossa Ordinaria long before Luther or the reformers also testifies that the 7 books were never "Scripture."

I can give more fathers who stated like Jerome that the 7 books were never, "Scripture."

John of Damascus, Augustine, Malito of Sardis, etc...
---john9346 on 12/26/17


"With reference to which particular we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not Canonical, yet brought out for the edification of the Church, we bring forward testimony. Thus Eleazar in the battle smote and brought down an elephant, but fell under the very beast that he killed (1 Macc. 6.46). (Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church [Oxford: Parker, 1845], Gregory the Great, Morals on the Book of Job, Volume II, Parts III and IV, Book XIX. 34, p. 424)
---john9346 on 12/26/17


John: Jerome himself rejected them as being "Scripture."
---john9346 on 12/26/17

Jerome lived in the 4th century. I already cited his words stating he would follow the Church's Authority.

Plus, by your own logic you are not making sense.

If St. Jerome is arguing that the 7 books are NOT Scriptures that means they were regarded as Scripture by the Church for him to disagree!

A disagreement occurring 1200 centuries before Martin Luther started complaining about the SAME Scriptures!

Proving that the 7 Books were Scriptures in the first place!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/26/17


John 9346 said, "Brendan, there are too many blogs here that proove you wrong about when I engage Cluny he runs...

One Noted Blogs is (The 7-ecumenical Councils)"


Are you the moderator? Do you print out all of the threads, in detail? Or maybe just make pdf files of the contents, and then cross reference them to the poster? Or are you just rich, and have the manpower to have someone else do that job?

Anyway, I don't care what you might THINK!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/26/17


Kathr, Cluny answered you well. The Vatican stopped (not just the Pope) stating unbaptized babies were in limbo because of PEOPLE like you.

For some reason you all were CONFUSED thinking 'limbo' was state of torment for unbaptized babies.

God is Merciful and would NEVER torment babies UNLIKE you who have SAID it is OKAY to pull a baby apart limb by limb just because his or her father raped his or her mother.

The Vatican states it is a 'Mystery' but God is Merciful and would NEVER punish a child because their parent failed to baptized them.

I will ask the question again.

EXPLAIN Matthew 12:36?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/26/17


Brendan states, "You are so wrong John. Cluny is a dear friend that I have known for over 20 years. He DOES NOT RUN!
Rather, he is a strong advocate/apologist for the Lord. You, however, are so caught up with Calvin that you cannot see the truth when it kicks you in the
teeth!"

Brendan, there are too many blogs here that proove you wrong about when I engage Cluny he runs...

One Noted Blogs is (The 7-ecumenical Councils)

There are more but this blog was very very noticeable even the readers took note...

Brendan,


Sir, I'll leave you with these words Remember these words, "32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Jn 8:32
---john9346 on 12/24/17


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John 9346 said, "One thing I have come to learn about Cluny is when the real issues arise he runs..."

You are so wrong John. Cluny is a dear friend that I have known for over 20 years. He DOES NOT RUN!

Rather, he is a strong advocate/apologist for the Lord. You, however, are so caught up with Calvin that you cannot see the truth when it kicks you in the teeth!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/24/17


StrongAxe: Count how many Catholic churches have names including "Lady", "Notre Dame", etc. vs. "Lord", "Redeemer", etc. (which are much more popular in Protestant churches).//

I have and you are WRONG.

Go by the Dioceses in your State or any State. They have each Church's name listed.

But LOOK in your phone book and count all the Protestant Churches and you will be shock to see they DON'T EVEN HAVE JESUS' NAME or His Redemption as the name of their Churches.

They have Secular names as 'River of Life' or 'Fountain of Life'.

StrongAxe, you CAN'T have Jesus on a postage stamp UNLESS it is a Madonna and CHILD who is Jesus!

Which you can ONLY buy during Christmas!
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/23/17


Kathr and StrongAxe, if you two are so UPSET with the new TAX CUT BILL I can help your mood.

There is an option in the Tax Code that ALLOWS you to give MORE of YOUR MONEY to the Government.

Ask your CPA or Whoever does your taxes to assist you in donating more money to the Government.

Also, you CAN UP your exemption through job (if you still work) so that the Government CAN take MORE of YOUR money from YOUR PAYCHECK.

STOP complaining and DONATE all YOUR money.

But you WILL STOP FORCE donation of MY MONEY to our IRRESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/23/17


StrongAxe, those so called 3 million votes Hillary got are from California. Which means most of them might have been Illegals. California has been handing out driving licenses to Illegals for over a decade.

Plus, those numbers are BEFORE the recount in 5 key States. (Partial in 2 States)

I am SURE if they did a recount in California that 3 million number would DROP!

Besides, I told you BEFORE we are a Republic and called the United States of America NOT Cal-York of America.

3 BRANCHES of Government.

Not 4 or 5 Branches no matter how hard you and Kathr wish it were 4 Branches.

Know your Country, not change your Country.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/22/17


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John 9346 said, "Brendan, what I say to you is because I love you and care about you my friend..."

What a load of skata.

"What your feeling is the conviction of the Holy Spirit I plead with you my friend turn repent of your sins and run to the Christ's of Holy Scripture he is the only one who can save you no other jesus can do that..."

I ran into His arms 40 years ago, even if you don't want to admit it. But I'll be praying for you. and BTW, you are supposed capitalize His name.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/20/17


strongaxe states, "The fact that something isn't mentioned in scripture doesn't necessarily mean it's fallacious. The apostles never mentioned electricity or internet either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them."

It does when it comes to the matter of Faith and Practice.

Strongaxe, tell us, is using electricity and the internet a matter of Faith and Practice for Christians yes or no??
---john9346 on 12/20/17


Brendan said, "
If you wish me to address you respectfully, then you must do the same for me, and stop treating me like the worst sinner in the world, still drowning in the puddle of my sins."

Brendan, what I say to you is because I love you and care about you my friend...

What your feeling is the conviction of the Holy Spirit I plead with you my friend turn repent of your sins and run to the Christ's of Holy Scripture he is the only one who can save you no other jesus can do that...

Brendan, i'll leave you with these words to ponder:

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Prov 14:12

In love,

John
---john9346 on 12/20/17


John, from the time I first showed up on these Blogs, you have shown a bigoted side toward me that you probably aren't even aware of.

The way you talk down to me is scandalous. If you were saying things like this to your wife or kids, you would be out of the house faster than you can say "sinner, repent."

I have been cooperating with Christ for 40 years. I have been overfilled with the Holy Spirit for that same 40 years.

If you wish me to address you respectfully, then you must do the same for me, and stop treating me like the worst sinner in the world, still drowning in the puddle of my sins.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


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reuben said, "That's a question you need to answer yourself!"

Sir, Paul gives the answer when he states, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." "Inspiration of God." is the Greek Word, "Theopneustos."

Reuben states, "Paul use of the word "complete" for every good work is 'artios' it reference the clergy is suitable."

What makes the Clergyman complete in vs 16-17?

Are you saying that Paul is stating that the Clergyman makes himself complete sir??

Do you understand The Greek Word Meaning in vs 17 Eek Artiz??
---john9346 on 12/19/17


Reuben states, "Matt. 6:19-20 Jesus statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 lay up your treasure."

Notice you state, "followes." and not an exact quotation. Also, its telling you don't cite the entire verse of Sirach.

Reuben states, "Matt.. 7:12 Jesus said do unto others-Tobit 4:15 what you hate, do not do to others."

Sir, what's telling is your not citing the entirety of the verses only bits and pieces...

What you must show for Sirach and Tobit that those authors not the Council of Trent claimed "Divine Authority." for their writings. Remember, those authors not the Council of Trent...
---john9346 on 12/19/17


steveng states, "john9346, you are reading the bible through the eyes of today's overly educated person - trying to interpret each and every verse instead of within context."

First, have you ever read Acts 17:10-11?

Sir, reading the Scriptures in context simply means to allow the authors to define their meanings of words, sentances in a paragraph.

Tell us, what is your definition of, "your worldly interpretation?" this is a very "subjective Statement." and anyone can use it. I can use this statement to teach anything I feel and misuse Scripture to try and support it.
---john9346 on 12/19/17


Hello Readers,

In responding to Cluny:

One thing I have come to learn about Cluny is when the real issues arise he runs...

If I were here throwing Personal Insults, and being Verbally Abusive Cluny would be fully engage,yet, on matters of faith that really matter that to get it wrong is "An Eternal Consequence." he runs...

You can run sir because you don't have the answers that I pray may God open your eyes to see...

Just know when ever you engage me on any topic of faith I am going to all ways bring up the issues that matter and you know I do.

Just like the purgatory Blog you hated I brought up Sola Ekklesia, but I did...

May God be merciful,

John
---john9346 on 12/19/17


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John 9346*

Sir, why is Paul stating the "Scriptures." are profitable for every good work?

That's a question you need to answer yourself!

The word profitable is ophelimos in Greek and it means useful.

Paul use of the word "complete" for every good work is 'artios' it reference the clergy is suitable. Complete(artios) does not describe scripture but the clergyman.

John 9346* the Jews, Jesus, and the apostles, rejected the apocrypha...

Matt. 6:19-20 Jesus statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 Jesus said do unto others-Tobit 4:15 what you hate, do not do to others.
---Ruben on 12/18/17


john9346, you are reading the bible through the eyes of today's overly educated person - trying to interpret each and every verse instead of within context. Chapter and verse numbers were created almost three hundred years ago. Try reading the bible without verse numbers and through the eyes of a child. You'll be amazed at how different your worldly interpretation is compared to how the bible was written 2,000 years ago.
---Steveng on 12/18/17


---Cluny on 12/17/17

I know exactly how you feel.. There are those on here who would rather find fault than discuss topics.

Sometimes I need a break from here.
---NurseRobert on 12/18/17


steveng states, "This out. AThis tells that no one is in heaven nor are they with the Lord in glory - they are still "dead.".

Sir, first, you cited know chapter and verse at all for this conclusion.

Next, the dead in Christ rising just simply mean the spirit and the body are reunited.

Thirdly, Paul writes in 2 Cor 5:8 to die in Christ is to be with the Lord in glory so yes there are Christians in heaven right now today...

The 2 separate resurrections mentioned are addressing the judgments.
---john9346 on 12/17/17


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Reuben:

"2 Tim. 3:15 Paul tells Timothy from his childhood-which means the OT not the NT because it was not complied at the time of his teaching."

Sir, do you not believe that the NT is Scripture?

"Nothing about it being exclusive or only or alone!"

Sir, why is Paul stating the "Scriptures." are profitable for every good work?

"2 Tim. 3:17 already mention-refer to to a clergyman, not a layman,"

Based on the context who was Timothy to implement these functions to?

BTW, the Jews, Jesus, and the apostles, rejected the apocrypha...
---john9346 on 12/17/17


Brendan said, "John, there is only ONE Jesus, because He has not failed to do what He wanted to do."

Sir, first, there is only one Jesus the one found in Holy "Scripture."

Next, the Jesus you espouse is unable to save you or anyone and his death on the cross was incomplete resulting in needing to be further purged after death.

Brendan my friend this isn't the Lord Jesus revealed in Scripture...
---john9346 on 12/17/17


Brendan you ask, "Whose advice--indeed, which Jesus should I listen to."

Sir, I pray you'll repent and call and cry out to this Jesus who said this:please listen to this one who said:

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God." Lev 26:1
---john9346 on 12/17/17


I have tried to explain things to john9846, but he refuses to listen and accuses me of things I don't believe in.

Henceforth I shall ignore him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/17/17


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john9346 wrote: "...where are those saints who have died? The Scriptural answer is they are with the Lord in glory."

Let's reason this out. At the second coming of Christ (which has not happened, yet) the first resurrection occurs "the dead in Christ shall rise first." This tells that no one is in heaven nor are they with the Lord in glory - they are still "dead.". At the second second resurrection the rest of the dead shall rise and judged from the book of life according to their works.

Blessed are those that rise at the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 12/17/17


Cluny said, "Read the Nicene Creed and tell me where it disagrees with Scripture.
Then tell me if this is the "Jesus" you believe in."

The men of the Nicene Creed were clear that they worshipped the Lord Jesus Christ of "Holy Scripture.", but this isn't the same Jesus that you worship... Remember, the men who wrote this creed also would have rejected your worship in icons/images...


You've all ready admitted that the Jesus of Scripture doesn't need the use of icons,therefore, if you use what he doesn't command and calls an abomination this is not the Jesus and God found in "Scripture..
---john9346 on 12/15/17


John 9346 said, "Cluny your jesus needs you to use icons to pray to him, but the Jesus of the bible hears just prayers with no images needed or commanded."

John, there is only ONE Jesus, because He has not failed to do what He wanted to do.

But the icons that you so furiously denigrate have existed for 2,000 years, where your iconoclasm has existed for only 500 years.

Whose advice--indeed, which Jesus should I listen to. 2,000 years, or a johnny come lately with only 500 years experience? I'll trust the Jesus of the Bible, while you must listen to Him through your Calvinist filters.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/15/17


john9346 on 12/15/17

Ok, lets begin:

2 Tim 3:16-17

2 Tim. 3:14 continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it.

Nothing here about what you have already read!

2 Tim. 3:15 Paul tells Timothy from his childhood-which means the OT not the NT because it was not complied at the time of his teaching.

2 Tim. 3:16 " All scripture is profitable for every good work.

Nothing about it being exclusive or only or alone!

Also the inspired OT that Paul is referring to included the deuterocanonical books, which John reject.

2 Tim. 3:17 already mention-refer to to a clergyman, not a layman, which relevant to you and me unless you are studying to be a bishop:)
---Ruben on 12/16/17


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\\ challenge you do a comparison of the Jesus of Holy Scripture and the Jesus ofRoman, Melkite Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, they are not the same.\\

Read the Nicene Creed and tell me where it disagrees with Scripture.

Then tell me if this is the "Jesus" you believe in.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/17


reuben ask, "Ok- before we continue, I need to clarify are you saying that Paul is saying all we need is the scripture alone??"

Yes...

Remember, there are those reading this exchange who desire and seek the truth.

So to answer your question yes.
---john9346 on 12/15/17


Cluny states, "Wrong agin. Jesus, being God, doesn't need anything."

Then why do you attribute icons to him when you just admitted he doesn't need them??

I challenge you do a comparison of the Jesus of Holy Scripture and the Jesus ofRoman, Melkite Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, they are not the same.

Cluny your jesus needs you to use icons to pray to him, but the Jesus of the bible hears just prayers with no images needed or commanded.
---john9346 on 12/15/17


However, he made a new covenant that included all poeple, not just Jews.
---StrongAxe on 9/15/17

Show the scripture's sa.
You can't, otherwise you would have and wouldn't have made such an ignorant statement.

Psa_120:3 What shall be given unto thee? or what shall be done unto thee, thou false tongue?
Jer_31:31....I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Heb_8:8....I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 12/15/17


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GOD only has two categories. Not four as s.a. posted but, listed no scripture as usual and typical of him and his un-ortho Cnsig-other.

Isa_45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent "but unto" the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Further reading: 1Ch_16:13 O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
Isa_44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel, whom I have chosen:
Psa_105:6 O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.
Jer 31:31 and Heb 8:8
---Trav on 12/15/17


1. "Both scripture and Oral Tradition."

Tell us, where is tradition found in 2 Tim 3:16?

2. "steadfastness also makes a man perfect and complete , lacking nothing."

In 2 Tim 3:16-17 where is stedfastness mentioned out of Paul's Mouth?

3. "refers to a clergyman, not a

4. "Paul is referring to the OT at that time, this verse also proves that one can come to faith in Jesus Christ without the New Testament."

5. Reuben, tell us, do not believe the NT is "Scripture?"
---john9346 on 12/14/17

Ok- before we continue, I need to clarify are you saying that Paul is saying all we need is the scripture alone??
---Ruben on 12/15/17


\\... whose atoning work failed because I still must be punished in the idea of purgatory.\\

Orthodox don't believe in purgatory. In fact, we repudiate this doctrine.

\\2. ...who is a failure because he is unable to keep me from sinning and from losing my salvation.\\

All I know is that my Bible says that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.

\\3. ... who needs icons/images to be worshipped...\\

Wrong agin. Jesus, being God, doesn't need anything.

\\Monk Brendan the Jesus who is found in Holy Scripture is not the Jesus mentioned above...\\

Yes, He is. but YOUR Jesus is not the same as the one in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/17


Brendan states, "I have answered all of your questions before. For all this time, you have accused me of NOT being a Christian, simply because I am Eastern Catholic Christian, a faith that you obviously don't understand at all."

Sir, once again, your stating falsely through out our many discussionss I am the only one here who has stated to you Eastern Orthodox Sources/authorities. On 1 blog you even stated that those gentlemen were wrong...

Brendan, your confusing 2 things just because someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't mean that they don't understand your Religious Point of Views.

Respectfully if you cant handle your religion being challenged then why do you post here?
---john9346 on 12/14/17


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Brendan said, "That should be, I pray you find Jesus!"

Sir, tell me, whichJesus?

1. Are you talking about the Jesus of Melkite, and Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox whose atoning work failed because I still must be punished in the idea of purgatory.

2. Are you talking about the Jesus of Melkite, and Roman Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodox who is a failure because he is unable to keep me from sinning and from losing my salvation.

3. Are you talking about the Jesus of Melkite, and Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox who needs icons/images to be worshipped...

Monk Brendan the Jesus who is found in Holy Scripture is not the Jesus mentioned above...
---john9346 on 12/14/17


Reuben:

1. "Both scripture and Oral Tradition."

Tell us, where is tradition found in 2 Tim 3:16?

2. "steadfastness also makes a man perfect and complete , lacking nothing."

In 2 Tim 3:16-17 where is stedfastness mentioned out of Paul's Mouth?

3. "refers to a clergyman, not a layman."

Sir, why are you refusing to answer?

4. "Paul is referring to the OT at that time, this verse also proves that one can come to faith in Jesus Christ without the New Testament."

And what are the OT called in 2 Tim 3:15 that will make one wise unto salvation by faith in Christ Jesus?

5. Reuben, tell us, do not believe the NT is "Scripture?"
---john9346 on 12/14/17


Nicole ask, "So what is your opinion about Jesus and Hanukkah?"

First, I use to practice Messianic Judaism.

Next, Jn 10:22 states the Lord Jesus was at the temple during Hanukkah not that he actually celebrated it.

Example, if you said I was at the mall during christmas this by know means, means I was doing christmas shopping or doesn't mean i celebrate christmas.

Its vital to remember Hanukkah is not in the Torah...
---john9346 on 12/14/17


jH ohn9346on * questions that need for you to answer:

1. What did Paul state is "Theopneustos?"

Both scripture and Oral Tradition-2 : 3-14 . 3:14 continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it.
1

3. What makes the man of God "Perfect?"

James 1:4 steadfastness also makes a man perfect and complete , lacking nothing.

4. What makes the man of God thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

refers to a clergyman, not a layman.

5. What makes us wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus?

Paul is referring to the OT at that time, this verse also proves that one can come to faith in Jesus Christ without the New Testament.
---Ruben on 12/14/17


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I said, "I pray you Jesus!"

That should be, I pray you find Jesus!

More books to read

The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to Eastern Christianity by Timothy Ware

The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware

Orthodox Theology: An Introduction
by Vladimir Lossky
---Monk_Brendan on 12/13/17


John, you claim that Jews have a problem with Hanukkah, but I proved that Jesus Himself celebrated Hanukkah in John 10:22

So what is your opinion about Jesus and Hanukkah?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/13/17


John 9346 said, "Monk Brendan, questions that need for you to answer:"

Why? Why do I NEED to answer? You seem to see this as a one way street, where you ask, and I answer. It doesn't go that way all the time.

I have answered all of your questions before. For all this time, you have accused me of NOT being a Christian, simply because I am Eastern Catholic Christian, a faith that you obviously don't understand at all.

So, go read Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Fr. Michael Pomazansky.

When you have read it through, then we can have discussion of MY faith.

I pray you Jesus!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/13/17


John 9346 said, "Brendan, according to Yahweh worshipping icons is a result of a heart that has departed from him...

See, Ezek 6 worshipping icons is idolatry that is an abomination to Yahweh God..."


Again, you seem to not understand that we are not WORSHIPING idols. Icons are not icons, they have a respected place in all Church History until the Reformers came in and, in order to get rid of all things Catholic, they banned icons, paintings, statues, and so on, to prove their religion "Pure." They missed the whole idea of Reformation, and gave you a sterile, clean process that has to allow emotional excesses to over run the church service.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/13/17


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Brendan said, ""Purgatory"
Many will say that no place exists because it is NOT in the Bible. Did the Bible mention North America? China? Japan?
Please Discuss!"
The Lord God inspired Paul to state,

2 Tim 3:

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
---john9346 on 12/12/17


Monk Brendan,

questions that need for you to answer:

1. What did Paul state is "Theopneustos?"

2. Tell us all, What is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

3. What makes the man of God "Perfect?"

4. What makes the man of God thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

5. What makes us wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus?
---john9346 on 12/12/17


Monk Brendan ask, "If that is so, then why are we not allowed to make icons, so that we can venerate them, and so we can WORSHIP our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ?"

answer:

"9 And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations."

Brendan, according to Yahweh worshipping icons is a result of a heart that has departed from him...

See, Ezek 6 worshipping icons is idolatry that is an abomination to Yahweh God...
---john9346 on 12/12/17


Monk Brendan states, "The 7th Ecumenical Council said is was okay."

But no one at the 7-ecumenical Council ever claimed that they were "Infallible.", "Inspired.", or "Inerrant."


My friend, In love, I pray you'll repent and turn to the God of the bible alone and worship him only...
---john9346 on 12/12/17


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\\I never implied that you supported the Left, or it's abortion platform, etc. \\

Here are your own words to me on this very blog:

**\\CLUNY. Your defense of your Lefty mates here who support the Left in spite of its baby slaughter platform, domestic terrorism, lies, hate, bigotry, racism, etc, only reflects poorly on you.\\**

If you are not accusing me of agreeing with them, then words have no meaning--including your own.

But this is a typical game that leftist liberals like you play.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/12/17


John 9346 said, " The Scriptural answer is they are with the Lord in glory..."

If that is so, then why are we not allowed to make icons, so that we can venerate them, and so we can WORSHIP our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ? The 7th Ecumenical Council said is was okay.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/17


Monk Brendan states, "You are NOT answering the question!"

If the question is where are those saints who have died? The Scriptural answer is they are with the Lord in glory... Please see and read again Lk 16:19-31, Heb 9:27, and 2 Cor 5:8.

The authors of Scripture knew of no purgatory...

Monk Brendan ask, "Since when?"

Since the Holy Spirit wrote, "See, Rom 1:17, 3:28, 4:5, 5:1, Gen 15:6, Gal2:16 and Gal 3:24..."
---john9346 on 12/12/17


Monk Brendan,

1. You cited Rev 21:27 but did you continue reading these words, "
but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Brendan, who is John The Apostle telling you who will enter this city?

2. In 1 Jn 1:8 who is John The Apostle talking to the justified or the unjustified?
---john9346 on 12/12/17


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3. 1 Cor 3:9-15 is speaking of the works resulting from salvation not because of the works. Lest there be any doubt the Holy Spirit wrote these words, "11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1 Cor 3:11

Brendan listen to God's Words my friend, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

If your teaching people to look to the idea of purgatory then the Lord Jesus Christ is not your "Foundations."
---john9346 on 12/12/17


CLUNY. Settle down.
The Lefty mates I referred to were NURSE and AXE, as they're the 2 I've been confronting about THEIR Leftism.

And considering your delusional allegations at the start of this blog topic, it seemed to me that you were lashing out in irrational anger due to my debates with your mates Nurse and AXE, who are Leftists.

I never implied that you supported the Left, or it's abortion platform, etc.

BTW, good on you for your stance against abortion. Keeping you in prayer for your legal case.
---Haz27 on 12/12/17


\\CLUNY. Your defense of your Lefty mates here who support the Left in spite of its baby slaughter platform, domestic terrorism, lies, hate, bigotry, racism, etc, only reflects poorly on you.\\

You're one to talk about people lying, Haz.

Please give the screen names of the "lefty mates" you claim I'm defending.

And unless you have voted for Trump in TWO American elections in 2016 and been named as a defendant in TWO $39 million lawsuits for merely praying across the street from the abortuaries, you are ILL EQUIPPED to accuse me of supporting leftism or abortion.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/17


John: Nicole states, "That so called quote is from 'The authority of Scriptures' by William Webster."
Ma'am, you're Wrong, the quote comes from Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. II, St Augustins City of God and Christian Doctrine, The City of God XVIII.26,36 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, Phillip Shaff.//

Strange? Either William Webster copied Phillip Schaff or vice versa.

Google William Webster and look for yourself.

//I would say The Jews have an issue because Hanukkah isn't in the "Torah."//

Well you need to put Jesus in that category also, because He celebrated Hanukkah Himself.

John 10:22
The feast of the Dedication was then taking place in Jerusalem. It was winter.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/11/17


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John 9346 said, "Monk Brendan You state, "As I have said, the souls in purgatory ARE NOT under God's wrath. Rather, they ARE saved. What you keep missing is the fact that God will not allow any imperfection into heaven (Rev 21:27). With that in mind, we know that those souls are not in heaven, yet. Nor are they in hell or asleep under the ground. Until they are purified, (1Cor 3:12-15) where are they?"

You are NOT answering the question!

"Those in Christ are made perfect at the moment of believing:"

Since when? Or have you gone so Calvinist that you believe you cannot sin? Because if that is so, take a good look at 1 John 1:8.So you're not fooling us, but you're lying to yourself.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/11/17


SHAME ON YOU NURSEROBERT!

You wasted all that time and STILL REFUSED TO ANSWER YOUR OWN QUESTION!

PAID ATTENTION!

I asked you to repost your answer SINCE you CLAIMED you answered me!

Or STOP badgering Haz!

You sound ridiculous and childish!

Did you have a sister growing up and played the same games with her?

GROW UP!

Haz, I see what you are talking about when you speak about NurseRobert.

He used to answer questions.

I don't know why I am surprised, Democrats NEVER give a straight answer.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/11/17


CLUNY. Your defense of your Lefty mates here who support the Left in spite of its baby slaughter platform, domestic terrorism, lies, hate, bigotry, racism, etc, only reflects poorly on you.

---Haz27 on 12/11/17


Nicole states, "That so called quote is from 'The authority of Scriptures' by William Webster."

Ma'am, you're Wrong, the quote comes from Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. II, St Augustins City of God and Christian Doctrine, The City of God XVIII.26,36 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, Phillip Shaff...

I would say The Jews have an issue because Hanukkah isn't in the "Torah.", but I did celebrate it when I practiced Messianic Judaism until I saw the truth.
---john9346 on 12/11/17


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cluny ask, "Who says?"

Many fathers (east and west)

See, past blog, (7-ecumenical Councils) your question and objections were addressed and repudiated...


Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. II, St Augustins City of God and Christian Doctrine, The City of God XVIII.26,36 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans,
---john9346 on 12/11/17


Monk Brendan You state, "As I have said, the souls in purgatory ARE NOT under God's wrath. Rather, they ARE saved. What you keep missing is the fact that God will not allow any imperfection into heaven (Rev 21:27). With that in mind, we know that those souls are not in heaven, yet. Nor are they in hell or asleep under the ground. Until they are purified, (1Cor 3:12-15) where are they?

First, the authors of Scripture knew of no purgatory please read Lk 13:1-5, 16:19-31, Heb 9:27, and 2 Cor 5:8.

Those in Christ are made perfect at the moment of believing:

See, Rom 1:17, 3:28, 4:5, 5:1, Gen 15:6, Gal2:16 and Gal 3:24...

May the Lord open your understanding and bring truth to you today,

John
---john9346 on 12/11/17


Haz27, everybody knows that leftist liberalism, such as you espouse, is only one step away from arson, pyromania, and other forms of terrorism.

What evidence can you give us that you are NOT responsible for the wildfires in California, or that you are not for the immoral pre-born baby killing called abortion?

Your simple railing against it proves NOTHING.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/17


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