ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Going To Purgatory

"Purgatory"

Many will say that no place exists because it is NOT in the Bible. Did the Bible mention North America? China? Japan?
Please Discuss!

Join Our Christian Dating and Take The Heaven & Hell Bible Quiz
 ---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/17
     Helpful Blog Vote (1)

Post a New Blog



Nicole,

Those 7 extra books weren't added until 1546 in April at the Council of Trent.

Those books were never regarded as "Scripture." by the Early Christians...

Jerome himself rejected them as being "Scripture."
---john9346 on 12/26/17


kathr, Limbus Infantium was never de fide--that is of faith.

It was merely a theologoumenon--a theological opinion.

The Pope did NOT "do away with Limbo."

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/26/17


Nicole, let me repeat, THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE AS PURGATORY.....PERIOD.

Just like there was no such place as LIMBO. If there was...where did all those souls go? Where did they end up when the Pope did away with LIMBO?

Scripture already makes clear WITHOUT YOUR ADDED 7 BOOKS, there is no doctrine on a need for Purgetory. It contradicts everything in the other books that ARE called scripture.

Repent and stop lying to people.
---kathr4453 on 12/26/17


Ok Monk, so NOW are you claiming since America etc existed but never mentioned , those people never hearing the Gospel ARE GIVEN A SECOND CHANCE in Purgetory?


Kathr, you know very well that Purgatory isn't a SECOND CHANCE.

Just because you accept someone to REMOVE 7 books from your Bible doesn't mean it's acceptable to the rest of us.

WE WANT ALL OF GOD'S WORDS!

You will have to answer for every smart or so called cute word you make.

Explain Matthew 12:36?

You can't have it both ways
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/25/17


Cluny and strongaxe:

Tell us all,

Are Altar Calls, Invitational Hymns, Sinner's Prayer (Accepting Jesus as your Personal Lord and Saviour), , having revivals, walking the Church Isle, and shaking the Preacher's Hand "A matter of Faith and Practice?"??
---john9346 on 12/25/17




Brendan states, "Sir, the contradiction your proclaiming is of your own devising. You formulated this trap for me to fall into, but you have gotten trapped."

But i'm not the one who stated these statements you did...

I'm just stating they're contradictions whatever that contradicts isn't true...

BTW, if you want to debate me on Calvin create a blog you sure keep bringing him up??
---john9346 on 12/24/17


Brendan states, "Sir, you are the one saying that the Bible is without error. I have always maintained the the Original texts are without error, but translators have made errors with the texts, leading to confusion."

Sir, do you understand that the Doctrine of Inerrancy is that the Scriptures in Original Form is without error.

So actually your agreeing with me, but sir this isn't a argument against Sola Scriptura because Sola Scriptura doesn't have anything to do with Bible Translations...

Sola Scriptura is the nature of Scripture.

Also, Bible Translations have nothing to do with Bible Transmission I agree people are confuse because they think it is all the same...
---john9346 on 12/24/17


John 9346 said, "Sir, do you see the contradiction yourdemonstrating??"

Sir, the contradiction your proclaiming is of your own devising. You formulated this trap for me to fall into, but you have gotten trapped

You also said, "The bible existed long before King James so not sure how King James is relevant??"

Sir, you are the one saying that the Bible is without error. I have always maintained the the Original texts are without error, but translators have made errors with the texts, leading to confusion.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/24/17


places. People needing Jesus. Yet it took hundreds of years before the Word got to them. According to Calvin et. all, they ended up in hell, where, as many have testified, there is no second chance.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/23/17


Ok Monk, so NOW are you claiming since America etc existed but never mentioned , those people never hearing the Gospel ARE GIVEN A SECOND CHANCE in Purgetory?

So IS this about second chances or not? Please make up your mind. Is this your position concerning all those who never heard the Gospel? OR is this about a light dusting off of lint on some mourning coat before meeting the Queen? So are you saying those who never heard the Gospel only need a dusting off in Pergutory before entering heaven?
---kathr4453 on 12/24/17


Monk Brendan states, "Because they existed thousand of years before Adam and Eve sinned. And yet, the Bible doesn't mention them."

So let me make sure I have this correct in what your stating that Australia, China, Japan, and North America are matters of Faith and Practice, but in your own words you state, "You know full well that Australia et.al. have nothing to do with someone getting saved."

Sir, do you see the contradiction yourdemonstrating??
---john9346 on 12/23/17




Monk Brendan states, "But I have NEVER said that I live buy Sola Scriptura."

Then why are you attempting to attack Sola Scriptura when you wrote in your Blog Question, ""Purgatory"
Many will say that no place exists because it is NOT in the Bible. Did the Bible mention North America? China? Japan?
Please Discuss!"

Sir, your demonstrating that you are trying to attack this doctrine without understanding it.

The Church Fathers themselves believed, taught, and defended Sola Scriptura...

The Oral Traditions are those that have been written down in Scripture...
---john9346 on 12/23/17


Irenaeus said, ""We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith."

---john9346 on 12/23/17


Cyril of Jerusalem said, ""This seal have thou ever on thy mind, which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures."
---john9346 on 12/23/17


John 9346 said, "Sir, respectfully, this demonstrates that you do not understand "Sola Scriptura." and the Bible's Function."

But I have NEVER said that I live buy Sola Scriptura. That is a particular Protestant heresy that I do not ascribe to. Rather, I believe that the Oral Tradition of Christianity is just as important as the written in the Bible.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/23/17


John 9346 said, "You answered yes so that led to me asking you, ""How doesAustralia, North America, Japan, and China make the man of God perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?"

Because they existed thousand of years before Adam and Eve sinned. And yet, the Bible doesn't mention them.

Yet you asked that ignoble and sarcastic question, which should have been beneath you.

There were people living in those places. People needing Jesus. Yet it took hundreds of years before the Word got to them. According to Calvin et. all, they ended up in hell, where, as many have testified, there is no second chance.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/23/17


Monk Brendan states, "John, that is a very sarcastic and ignoble remark."

Agree sir, so why are you using it?

You should know better that the Scriptures contains all that is essential concerning, "Faith and Practice." for the Christian.

That is why I ask you the prior question, ""Monk Brendan, tell us, is Australia or North America a matter of Faith and Practice for Christians yes or no??"

You answered yes so that led to me asking you, ""How doesAustralia, North America, Japan, and China make the man of God perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?""
---john9346 on 12/22/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Counseling


John 9346 said, "How doesAustralia, North America, Japan, and China make the man of God perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?"

John, that is a very sarcastic and ignoble remark.

You know full well that Australia et.al. have nothing to do with someone getting saved. Rather, they were around when Christ was walking on earth. They did not magically appear when Columbus (or St. Brendan) set sail on voyages of discovery. That is what I was talking about in the last post.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/22/17


Textus Receptus is the original text used for the King James Version, I believe is to be Gods Word given to the English speaking world. Translations in other languages should be translated from the Textus Receptus. The Westcott-Hort is the translation the ASV/RSV versions comes from which is believed to be an incomplete version. I understand the Catholic Bible has included the Deuterocanonical books Or the Apocrypha which Protestants consider historical books. Overall I believe the KJV to be Gods Holy Word for instruction to the Church and in Righteousness.
---D.E._Wilson on 12/21/17


Brendan,

Can you explain how Australia, North America, China, and Japan is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

How doesAustralia, North America, Japan, and China make the man of God perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works?

Tell us how sir?
---john9346 on 12/21/17


Monk Brendan states, "Yes, if we are to believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God that came down to King James lap, with a red leather color, gold edging on the paper, the Words of Jesus in red, and three ribbons."

Sir, respectfully, this demonstrates that you do not understand "Sola Scriptura." and the Bible's Function.

The bible existed long before King James so not sure how King James is relevant??
---john9346 on 12/21/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


kathr4453:

You wrote: the Bible NEVER ever said the earth was flat. And if people read the bible back then and believed it....they would have known that and no one would have been burned at the stake.

Aristotle knew the earth was round over 2000 years ago, long before any Christian church existed and was able to prove it by comparing records of shadows during an eclipse that was simultaneously visible in two different places.

Many of the people who were burned at the stake were people who had property that religious hypocrites coveted, so they accused them of witchcraft and had them executed and seized their land.
---StrongAxe on 12/20/17


John9346 said, "Monk Brendan, tell us, is Australia or North America a matter of Faith and Practice for Christians yes or no??"

Yes, if we are to believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God that came down to King James lap, with a red leather color, gold edging on the paper, the Words of Jesus in red, and three ribbons.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/20/17


Monk Brendan states, "In my postings to this thread, I explained: If you were presented to the Queen of England, you would eventually stop at an antechamber, and someone would inspect you, brush any lint off your mourning coat, and instruct you how to behave while in the Throne Room."

Sir, have you not read 1 Jn 1:9?

The Lord Jesus Christ in Jn 19:30 took care iof this when he stated "Tetelestai."
---john9346 on 12/20/17


Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers, that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:


Circle here is also stated as sphere.....which does not mean flat.

So again Monk, the Bible NEVER ever said the earth was flat. And if people read the bible back then and believed it....they would have known that and no one would have been burned at the stake.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/17


Shop For Church Audio Video


\\And why they think even now they cannot pray or come directly to God, but have to ask Mary, Saints, Priests Popes ..you name it ..to ask for them, because they think even now they are not worthy, and these others some how are. SAD!\\

WRONG AGAIN!

Just like everything else you say about Roman Catholicism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/20/17


Then, when you are all brushed and polished, and when you have been properly instructed, you go in to be presented to the Queen.

Just so, Purgatory may be an antechamber to the Throne Room in heaven.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17

There's no Purgetory that "MAY BE" an antechamber to the throne room in heaven. We as saved can NOW come directly to the Throne of God. Hebrews 4.

I think this is the area where Catholics just do not understand salvation, or the finished works of Christ. And why they think even now they cannot pray or come directly to God, but have to ask Mary, Saints, Priests Popes ..you name it ..to ask for them, because they think even now they are not worthy, and these others some how are. SAD!
---kathr4453 on 12/20/17


Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

We're warned against the false doctrine of purgatory ....this "MAYBE" place that doesn't exist except in some vain philosophical teachings not found in scripture. When we enter heaven it's because God sees us IN CHRIST and CHRIST IN US. We are not only perfect and sanctified IN CHRIST, but COMPLETE IN HIM. We don't know what we will be like, but WE WILL BE LIKE HIM.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/17


Hebrews 10:9-14 THEN SAID HE. LO I come to do thy will, Oh God. he taketh away the first that he may establish the second......By which will we ARE sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

( OK so our sanctification is addressed here)
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

So Jesus Christ by HIS offering of HIMSELF has taken care of our sanctification and PERFECTION. AWESOME.

So again Cluny and Monk, exactly what is YOUR reasoning one needs a Purgetory? A second chance to WHAT....be sanctified or perfected? Like God didn't get it right the first time? Really? You're saying Jesus death and resurrection WASN'T enough? Scripture says it IS.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


Kathr4435 said, "Monk, there are no second chances after one has died."

Kathr, no one is getting a second chance.

As I have pointed out several times, the people in Purgatory ARE already saved.

In my postings to this thread, I explained: If you were presented to the Queen of England, you would eventually stop at an antechamber, and someone would inspect you, brush any lint off your mourning coat, and instruct you how to behave while in the Throne Room.

Then, when you are all brushed and polished, and when you have been properly instructed, you go in to be presented to the Queen.

Just so, Purgatory may be an antechamber to the Throne Room in heaven.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


The idea that imperfect humans would be out of place in heaven relies on the notion that there is some lengthy process that we can undergo that will transform us from unworthy to worthy. Unfortunately, there is no such process. You can't keep giving pennies to a poor man, and one day suddenly he will become rich. There is no point at which he was poor one moment, and rich the next. Similarly, there will be no point in purgatory when we will be unworthy one moment, and worthy the next. The transition from unworthy to worthy is not a gradual evolution accomplished by our own efforts in purgatory. Rather, it is an instantaneous, traumatic transformation that is accomplished directly by Christ himself, much like Isaiah and the coal.
---StrongAxe on 12/19/17


Monk, All one has to do is look at the Tabernacle Moses built in the wilderness ..built after a pattern of things in heaven to know yours is a fairy tale. Your inner chamber is what Scripture calls the Holy Of Holies. At the time of the OT, only the High priest could enter, but not without blood. Today Christ has entered once and for all, through His own blood,. TODAY WE CAN ENTER Hebrews 10, THROUGH THE VEIL, That is to say HIS FLESH, a NEW and LIVING WAY. TODAY we enter in, by being crucified with Christ. A way has been made, and it's not Purgetory. The way is THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. No one can ENTER IN after the fact of rejecting Jesus Christ by some dusting off.

I love Hebrews because it EXPOSES false doctrines and cults.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/17


\\Monk, there are no second chances after one has died.\\

kathr, the Roman Catholic Church has NEVER taught that purgatory is a second chance after death.

Why are you setting up this straw man?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/19/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


Monk Brendan ask, "is there ANYWHERE in the Bible, any mention of Australia or North America?"

Monk Brendan, tell us, is Australia or North America a matter of Faith and Practice for Christians yes or no??
---john9346 on 12/19/17


strongaxe states, "The fact that something isn't mentioned in scripture doesn't necessarily mean it's fallacious. The apostles never mentioned electricity or internet either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them."

It does when it comes to the matter of Faith and Practice.

Strongaxe, tell us, is using electricity and the internet a matter of Faith and Practice for Christians yes or no??
---john9346 on 12/19/17


Purgatory is not a mild case of hell. In looking at my life, I have to ask myself some questions. Have I ever judged anyone? Was I guilty of racism? Have I felt myself superior to a person addicted to drugs or alcohol, while I smoked and drank coffee? Am I guilty of gluttony? Do I stay overlong at the all-you-can-eat buffets? How about seeing someone on the street looking hungry and I passed them by? Have I clothed the naked, or given water to a thirsty man or visited the sick and those in jail? See Part Two DO NOT EDIT!
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


PART TWO
Have I organized a pot luck, and not invited my next door neighbor?

Have I ever attended a marathon, and while the runners are passing (in my shape, I can barely walk) and when the runners some by, handed someone a bottle of water, while the man behind me, not running, but dehydrated, has been ignored?
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


Some might object to the word "purgatory" itself, because it is a "Romish" word. Based on ALL of my explanation (which hopefully no moderator has edited), why not call it the Antechamber into the Throne Room.

If you were presented to the Queen of England, you would eventually stop at just such an antechamber, and someone would inspect you, brush any lint off your mourning coat, and instruct you how to behave while in the Throne Room.

Then, when you are all brushed and polished, and when you have been properly instructed, you go in to be presented to the Queen.

It is the same in the Antechamber to Heaven.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


Monk....a FLASH of what? Some flash of purification? Monk, there are no second chances after one has died. I know you all have been told you can pray someone out of Purgetory ...Along with a monetary gift ....that was instituted by a corrupt Pope who lost a lot of land in a poker game. Come on.....back then people couldn't read the truth for themselves and believed everything they were told. TODAY WE HAVE SCRIPTURE WE ALL CAN READ. And we are told WE are complete in Christ. And those OUTSIDE are not going to find a FLASH purification after they are dead to enter Heaven.

It's appointed for man ONCE to die, and then the judgement.

You either make the first resurrection or the second. You don't want to be in the second.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/17


Kathr 4453 said, "Since scripture clearly teaches what happens to us when we die, the moment we die....and says NOTHING about Purgetory or even comes close to a description of it...it does not exist."

Kathr, is there ANYWHERE in the Bible, any mention of Australia or North America? These are continents, and not worldly, man made demarcations. Yet, the Bible never mentions them. We know God made them. They didn't magically appear just before St. Brendan discovered America. The Bible speaks more of the world being FLAT, and yet we know it is an oblate spheroid.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


Monk Brendan states, "It speaks of everything being tested as by fire, and the wood, hay and stubble being burned up."

But sir Paul no where states in these verses that the individual Christian will be tested by fire, it states his works will be tried by fire.

Monk Brendan states, "Part 2--Now we know that God will NOT allow ANYTHING into heaven that is not perfect, as He is perfect."

Absolutely Correct,'

But did you read the following verses I presented to you?
---john9346 on 12/19/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


strongaxe states, "The fact that something isn't mentioned in scripture doesn't necessarily mean it's fallacious. The apostles never mentioned electricity or internet either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them."

It does when it comes to the matter of Faith and Practice.

Strongaxe, explain to us is using electricity and the internet a matter of Faith and Practice yes or no?
---john9346 on 12/19/17


Kathr4453 said, "Also, in this day, we are Baptized with FIRE...The new Creature does not need this so called purification in hell fire."

Have I said ANYTHING about hell fire? This has nothing to do to being saved. You are already saved, so why worry about hell? Nor have I mentioned how long it would last. It may be a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, or is may be 6 centuries--or it might just SEEM to be six hundred years to you, while it only takes a flash from God, objectively.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/17


Also, in this day, we are Baptized with FIRE. Also TODAY our old man is CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST and raised up a New Creature IN CHRIST as we speak. The new Creature does not need this so called purification in hell fire. Now we grow into the statue and fullness of Christ..Ephesians 4. And the fiery TRIALS we now face in every day life 1 Peter 4 , James 1, are what bring us to maturity. Our faith is not TESTED and TRIED in a pool of hot flames....This very life we live, every day we have breath in our human bodies is this place we grow and mature. ASK JOB, and also see what Peter 1:10 states about Suffering NOW. He says of NOW, after you have suffered, you become established, settled , strengthened.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/17


Monk_Brendan:

In Isaiah's vision, he saw a hot coal being touched to his lips to purify him. This was a instantaneous act, not requiring large periods of time in purgatory. Why should it be any different for us? We are not made perfect through our own long extended acts of contrition in the afterlife. We are made perfect through Christ. Purification through purgatory would be justification by works (since we would be doing it).
---StrongAxe on 12/18/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


Monk, the Bible is not about property lines with names of countries, or TV shows, or computers or weather radar equipment. It's about REDEMPTION. And that is clearly the whole of the theme of scripture. And since it is, YES, it would ABSOLUTLEY be discussed and mentioned in scripture if it existed. It doesn't Monk.

You can't just MAKE UP anything you want and THEN SAY....well, Cars are not in the Bible.

Since scripture clearly teaches what happens to us when we die, the moment we die....and says NOTHING about Purgetory or even comes close to a description of it...it does not exist.

TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.... obviously didn't have YOUR scheduled time here to become purified in Purgetory.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/17


John 9346 quoted 1 Cor 3:9-15. This is the context that he says I am missing. First, it says that they are saved. I have never said otherwise.

It speaks of gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay and stubble being the mixture that any "saved" person will have used to build up upon the foundation of Jesus Christ.

It speaks of everything being tested as by fire, and the wood, hay and stubble being burned up.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/18/17


Part 2--Now we know that God will NOT allow ANYTHING into heaven that is not perfect, as He is perfect.

We also know that a saved person will not be sent to hell. We also know that there is no such thing as "soul sleep," even if there are some groups that proclaim that there is.

So, where is this burning, painful place where the final perfecting takes place?
---Monk_Brendan on 12/18/17


1 Cor 3:

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
---john9346 on 12/18/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
---john9346 on 12/18/17


Brendan states, "And what is the context, pray tell. (A straight answer, please.)"

Sir, the context here is addressing works resulting from salvation not for salvation.

Can you show in vs 9-15 where is Paul telling the Corinthians that they must be purified after death?

Sir, before responding remember the context.

BTW, lets remain on topic if you want to debate me on Calvin and Calvinism create a posting and I'll be happy to respond otherwise remain on topic ok?
---john9346 on 12/17/17


cluny ask, "After all, what justification do you have for what you accept as the Bible OTHER than Sola Ekklesia? God Himself never gave a list."

Hear is the justification, "27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" Jn 10:27

Remember, you and Brendan have repeatedly stated to me when I asked you both to give me 1 Church Father who believed, taught, and defended the teaching that "They gave the world the bible."

Cluny ask, "IF He did, tell me where and when, and where I may find such a list."

Sure! there are 66 books Gen-Rev open them up and read them.

Keep in mind Jn 10:27 as you begin reading...
---john9346 on 12/17/17


If Jesus were on this site many of you would truly mock him for being contrary to your beliefs.
---Steveng on 12/17/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


Purgatory does not require Christ or faith, but you fulfilling the punishment of sins
Paul says to the Corinthians ye are washed 1 Cor 6:11
Christ is our sanctification 1 Cor 1:30
If we go to purgatory, then Christ must go, too.
2 Tim 2:21, 1 Cor 3:15 talk about our works which come after our purification Titus 2:14
The elephant in the room is the failure to rightly divide, making us Israel.
Rightly divide what? The body of Christ (mystery) from the nation Israel (prophecy)
---michael_e on 12/17/17


\\Why not just admit its not biblical and then we can get to the real issue here that is, "Sola Ekklesia."\\

Actually, both Calvin and Luther taught Sola Ekklesia. Your parody of it at the end is unbecoming of you, but says a lot about your attitude.

After all, what justification do you have for what you accept as the Bible OTHER than Sola Ekklesia? God Himself never gave a list.

IF He did, tell me where and when, and where I may find such a list.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/16/17


John 9346 said, "Monk Brendan continues to try to read purgatory in to 1 cor 3:9-15, but the context disagrees with him."

John, I've looked at the context up one side and down the other. My message offends you because it doesn't fit into your Calvinist Box. Well, guess what, John. No matter how hard you try, you can't get God to fit in ANY box, including the Calvinist one.

And what is the context, pray tell. (A straight answer, please.)
---Monk_Brendan on 12/15/17


cluny states, "I believe it's QUITE relevant. If one requires that RCs and Orthodox give scriptural support for doctrines and worship practices, then so should Protestants."

Sir, I'm a Reform/calvinist Christian we don't believe in these practices...

This is irrelevant because when debating someone if they don't espouse what your attacking its illogical to argue it...

Respectfully, you both cant support nor defend it in Scripture so your trying to derail and create strawmans to the discussion/debate lol

Why not just admit its not biblical and then we can get to the real issue here that is, "Sola Ekklesia." (The Church Said it I believe it and that settles it)
---john9346 on 12/15/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Make Money


"When received into the Orthodox Church, a convert promises, I will accept and understand Holy Scripture in accordance with the interpretation which was and is held by the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East, our Mother," (Ware, Timothy (1993-04-29).
---john9346 on 12/15/17


cluny states, "OTOH, we know that the authors of the Scriptures taught about having revivals, altar calls, and invitation hymns.
Oh, yes. they also taught us to say sinner's prayers to invite Jesus into our hearts." as our personal Lord and Savior."

First, this argument is irrelevant to the discussion.\\

I believe it's QUITE relevant. If one requires that RCs and Orthodox give scriptural support for doctrines and worship practices, then so should Protestants.

Otherwise, one commits the ABOMINATION of a double standard (Proverbs 20:10).

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/17


If the concept of purgatory is biblical, it's contradicted by that which is clearly stated. "[Man's] breath goeth forth, he returns to his earth, In that very day his thoughts perish. You [Father] take away their breath, they die and return to their dust. For dust [they] are, And to dust [they] shall return. The living know that they will die, But the dead know nothing,..For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? Shall it declare thy truth? Will You work wonders for the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise You? Death can not celebrate thee:.. cannot hope for your truth."
---Josef on 12/15/17


cluny states, "OTOH, we know that the authors of the Scriptures taught about having revivals, altar calls, and invitation hymns.
Oh, yes. they also taught us to say sinner's prayers to invite Jesus into our hearts." as our personal Lord and Savior."

First, this argument is irrelevant to the discussion.

Next, it is because of the "Scriptures." I don't believe in these practices if you have been paying attention you would know that I have stated I don't believe these practices are, "Scriptural."

So, Cluny, why do you entertain the idea that God continues to sanctify us after death when God no where taught this doctrine biblically??
---john9346 on 12/15/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


john9346:

You wrote: We know that purgatory is fallacious because known of the Authors of Scriptures ever taught or recognized such a thing:

The fact that something isn't mentioned in scripture doesn't necessarily mean it's fallacious. The apostles never mentioned electricity or internet either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use them.

There are also many theological ideas that are very popular in modern Protestantism that are never mentioned in scripture either, such as "altar calls", and "accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior" (or even the Pentecostal "being baptized in the Holy Spirit with tongues following" being a requirement for salvation).
---StrongAxe on 12/15/17


Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you, For ye are not under the law, but under Grace,

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, As he is in the light, we have fellowship one with with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
---RichardC on 12/14/17


\\We know that purgatory is fallacious because known of the Authors of Scriptures ever taught or recognized such a thing\\

OTOH, we know that the authors of the Scriptures taught about having revivals, altar calls, and invitation hymns.

Oh, yes. they also taught us to say sinner's prayers to invite Jesus into our hearts as our personal Lord and Savior.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/14/17


It is gauche to make spelling errors while chiding someone else about his spelling errors. It's usually best to give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.---StrongAxe on 12/14/17

Gohsh...not even going to try to spell that word. LOL
Thanks buddy
---David on 12/14/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Stocks


We know that purgatory is fallacious because known of the Authors of Scriptures ever taught or recognized such a thing:

Lk 13:1-5, 16:19-31, Heb 9:27.

Monk Brendan continues to try to read purgatory in to 1 cor 3:9-15, but the context disagrees with him.
---john9346 on 12/14/17


One can make doctrine based on things the Bible actually says. One cannot make doctrine about things based on things about which it is silent. One may conjecture about such things, but one cannot assert them dogmatically.

Cluny:

There are many people for whom spelling and grammar may not be their strong suits, but that does not mean their points are necessarily invalid (although extremely incoherent writing may suggest incoherent thinking).

Also, you said "man word" when I think you meant "main word". It is gauche to make spelling errors while chiding someone else about his spelling errors. It's usually best to give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.
---StrongAxe on 12/14/17


David, if you can't spell the man word of a discussion properly, there's a good chance you don't understand the word. There is no E in "purgatory". Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/13/17


Cluny
There is no glory to Jesus Christ in your statement. There is a good chance you do not understand the word glory.
---David on 12/14/17


Bill said, " So, purgatory can be a doctrine of procrastination to what will not happen, instead of getting the real correction which we can get now. Because God is able to do the real correction we need, in this life."

Bill, Please pay attention. This is NOT a doctrine of procrastination. In order to get to Purgatory, you have to be cooperating with Jesus--"Saved" in Protestant parlance. It is AFTER you are saved, and AFTER you have died. You need to be right with God. And yes, that happens while you are alive.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/13/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Diabetes


There are two resurrections.

The first is at the second return of Jesus when the dead in Christ shall rise and the living shall rise with the dead. This hasn't happened yet.

The second resurrection occurs at the end of the thousand year reign when all the other dead from all of history shall rise and be judged from the book of life - according to their works. Blessed are those that rise in the first resurrection.

The laws of God were instilled in the hearts of man since the beginning. Most men's hearts have grown hard. There are a few who performs God's true religion without knowing they are from God. God is a just god.
---Steveng on 12/13/17


David, if you can't spell the man word of a discussion properly, there's a good chance you don't understand the word.

There is no E in "purgatory".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/13/17


(Revelation 20:13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

As according to the underlined in the above verse, there are those who go to a pergatory like place. But as in the first part, of the same verse, there are those who are raised from the sea. Why didnt they go to pergatory when they died? Could they be the bodies of those who are asleep in Christ?
---David on 12/13/17


Good point.

But just because it isn't in their Bible does it mean it isn't in the Bible?

Who gets to decide which Bible is legit?

The Bible with 73 Books for 1500 years?

Or

The Bible with 66 Books for 500 years?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/12/17


Read These Insightful Articles About Depression


Hebrews 12:4-11 shows how we now can get our Heavenly Father's correction. So, purgatory can be a doctrine of procrastination to what will not happen, instead of getting the real correction which we can get now. Because God is able to do the real correction we need, in this life.

We need to actively seek God, then, for His correction. And >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (in Philippians 2:14-16) . . .

not later after we die, but right "in the midst of" this selfish world's "crooked and perverse generation".

With God, this is possible now (c:
---Bill on 12/12/17


1 Cor 3:12 says, "Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,...(v14-15)If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.


If this is so, then there must be a place to do the burning. Not on Earth at all. People don't normally burst into flames when they die [See Pt 2]
---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/17


Part 2

I don't believe in "soul sleep" it just doesn't make sense. Plus we know that people are alive in heaven--look at Elisha.

And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men, and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

Now if Elisha was asleep in the Lord, then how did his bones give life to a man in 2Kings 13:21? And what happened to Enoch? See Part 3
---Monk_Brendan on 12/12/17


Copyright© 2017 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.