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Christ Baptist Church

Too many people fixate on the names of a Catholic Church.

How is it that I never see a "Crucified with Christ" Baptist Church, or "Jesus the Suffering Servant" Assemblies of God Church?

Yet I have seen a St. Beulah Church. Why?

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Mark_Eaton AGAIN YES. Romans 8 also back up what you said about cosmos..or the world. The cosmos will also become NEW, WHERE THE OLD IS PASSED AWAY.

It was because of Jesus death and resurrection that ALL SIN EVERYWHERE, even that that corrupted the world and universe, will one day we will,see the OLD pass away and ALL,THINGS BECOME NEW. This was also PURPOSED IN CHRIST who is head of the NEW CREATION .

But this in no way teaches universal salvation.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/18


Mark, question, if God purchased the entire world from sin and death then why are there people in hell right now today?
---john9346 on 2/7/18

Thank you for your definition of Cosmos. As you know, cosmos is used in John 3:16 and Jesus, who created the entire cosmos, surely knew what He was saying. For God so loved the Cosmos. Even our planet was changed by man's sin.

Your question is about punishment. Punishment is a Calvinist subject, not mine. BTW, there is no word hell in the Bible, it is either Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, or Tartarus. None of these words means a place of everlasting torment.

Hell as you know it is a creation of the Calvinist viewpoint.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/7/18


Mark_eaton:

"God purchased the entire world from sin and death."

Mark, question, if God purchased the entire world from sin and death then why are there people in hell right now today?

"But that does not start a relationship."

Mark, But according to Acts 20:28, Gal 3:13, Col 1:14 it does.

"The relationship part is up to us."

Mark, But the Lord Jesus says otherwise Jn 6:37-39, 44, 64-65, 65, and 17:1-9.
---john9346 on 2/7/18


Kosmos (world)

1. an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2. ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts', as the ornament of the heavens. 1 Pet. 3:
3. the world, the universe
4. the circle of the earth, the earth
5. the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6. the ungodly multitude, the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7. world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

a. the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)
b. of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47 1 Cor. 4:9, 2 Cor. 5:19
---john9346 on 2/7/18


I have nothing against you just because you don't agree with me...
---john9346 on 2/7/18

I echo this sentiment, John.

I expect many do not believe as I do. As I have mentioned here before, my theology is Orthodox, but my worship is Charismatic, even Pentecostal.

Orthodox theology tells us that Jesus "became what we are that we might
become what he is". This and the statement by Jesus in John 14:20 of "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you" shows us that it is God's intention that we be included in the life of the Trinity, to be plugged in to their relationship.

This is their desire for the whole world, not a select few.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/7/18




Absolutely Mark_Eaton. And the ONLY one we should be dialoging with is the Lord...YES...we can actually dialogue with the Father through His Son....re RELATIONSHIP.

No one needs a relationship with a Calvinist to understand the Gospel.

If you need WISDOM, ASK GOD, James 1.......not John. John is not God. John is BIASED ....and that is dangerous.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/18


Mr. Eaton:

First, i'm not posting to try to overwhelm you thats not my intentions sir, you just raise a lot of Underlining points that I try to address... Please know my desire is to dialog with you and others. I desire dialog/discussion so please know! Also, I have nothing against you just because you don't agree with me. I to once believed partially like you, but Mr. Eaton it was dialog like this that God used to open my eyes to his truth...

In love,

John
---john9346 on 2/7/18


Please study ALL scripture that has to do with THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY, and ask yourself according to those verses, does this fall in line with Calvinism or any newly formed doctrine over the years? If it doesn't then get on your knees and ask the Lord to show you the TRUTH. There are 1001 false gospels out there but ONLY ONE TODAY THAT WILL SAVE YOUR SOUL. And when it has saved your soul, ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS TELL OTHERS. It's the Preaching OF THE CROSS.

You'll want to preach Christ crucified and risen from the mountaintops. Holding Christ up just like the serpent was held up in the wilderness. You too will have a desire to want to MAKE ALL MEN SEE. Not tell them they can't see.
---kathr4453 on 2/7/18


None of these verses in context supports Universal Salvation...Jn 3:16-17 the word, "World." and "Whosoever." are not speaking of everybody who will live on earth....
---john9346 on 2/6/18

First off, I cannot post 4-5 posts one right after another. I cannot keep up with your pace.

Second, I am not talking about Universal Salvation. Please read this. I am talking about Universal Redemption. God purchased the entire world from sin and death. But that does not start a relationship. The relationship part is up to us.

Third, the words "World" and 'Whosoever" mean EXACTLY what they mean, regardless of what you say.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/7/18


Not everyone was or will be SONS OF GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. Begotten sons through Jesus Christ, Joint heirs with Christ. Only those in this dispensation are IN CHRIST. Adam and Eve were never IN CHRIST, yet they are in Heaven.

And the verse DOES NOT SAY, we were chosen before the foundation of the world....it says we were chosen IN CHRIST.

"According as he hath chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself,
according to the good pleasure of his will," Eph 1:4-5
---kathr4453 on 2/7/18




THE MYSTERY...
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath promised in Himself
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery, (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
---kathr445 on 2/7/18


In Ephesians AGAIN , Paul is laying the foundation of THE MYSTERY, he totally clarified....in Colossians 1:24-27 is. CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY. And Romans 16:24-27.... For the obedience of faith to all nations....the Gospel according to THE MYSTERY.

The Mystery is NOT God hand picking anyone before the foundation of the world ....the Mystery is Christ In You, and no where in Pauls teaching does he say what Calvinists ( who only use ONE VERSE out of context say). The use it out of context because they do not understand THE MYSTERY.

The ONLY way Christ can be IN YOU is to be Crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE, becoming ONE WITH CHRIST.
The mystery is also THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL.
---kath4454 on 2/7/18


These two verses clarify Eph 1:4-5
Eph 3:9 is an amazing verse clarifying anything BUT Calvinism. Paul wants ALL men to see...Calvinism says only the Elect can see. The FELLOWSHIP of the Mystery is the FELLOWSHIP of His sufferings, being conformed to His death..as Phil 3 more fully elaborate.

Eph 1:9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:


Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Calvin never saw it...the Mystery that is.....and made up his own mysterious and false replacement.
---Kathry4453 on 2/7/18


Chosen:
How does one know the thoughts of God if he has or hasn't chosen people before the foundations of the world?

Revelation 1:8
Matthew 20:16
Revelation 17:14
1 Peter 2:4,9
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Ephesians 1:4
Acts 9:15
Mark 13:20
Haggai 2:23
John 15:16
---Steveng on 2/6/18


Mark_eaton states, "Let me say this very plain God did not choose john9346, me, or Kathr, or any single person. There is not a pre-chosen elect." ."

Sir, as stated to you prior Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote otherwise listen to what he stated, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," Eph 1:4-5

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren," Rom 8:29
---john9346 on 2/6/18


Mark_eaton:

"The Father, Son, and Spirit predestined THE ENTIRE WORLD to adoption as Sons. Read Eph. 1 again."

False, Paul doesn't use the word world any were in Eph 1 at all.

There is no Universal Language used in Eph 1:4-5

"He chose us in Jesus, He predestined us through Jesus."

In Eph 1:1-5 Who did God The Father choose in Jesus?
---john9346 on 2/6/18


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Mark_eaton:

1. In Jn 3:16-17 the word, "World." and "Whosoever." are not speaking of everybody who will live on earth.

2. Are you familiar with the context of 2 Pet 3:9 and who Peter is writing to?

3. 1 Cor 15:22 incontext is speaking of resurrection not even addressing that everyone is save.

4. 1 tim 2:4 are you familiar with this context and what Paul is telling Timothy??

None of these verses in context supports Universal Salvation...
---john9346 on 2/6/18


2. Mark also stated that God didn't choose anyone before the foundation of the worl, but again, Paul contradicts him in Eph 1:4-5.
---john9346 on 2/4/18

Let me say this very plain.

God did not choose john9346, me, or Kathr, or any single person. There is not a pre-chosen elect.

The Father, Son, and Spirit predestined THE ENTIRE WORLD to adoption as Sons. Read Eph. 1 again.

He chose us in Jesus, He predestined us through Jesus.

Only reading Eph. 1 this way agrees with the Scriptures I gave to you: John 3:16-17, 2 Pet. 3:9, 1 Cor. 15:22, 1 Tim, 2:4.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/6/18


Reuben:

Sir, first, not sure what your after or what you are looking for??

Next, since the parable is not prescriptive if you want me to answer your question your going to have to be specific you did state that the parable is "Descriptive." not, "Prescriptive."

Seems like your asking me a question from this Descriptive Parable and you want me to apply it to what is Prescriptive to salvation...

I'm not going to dishonor the Word of God that way sir... You should know by now that i'm going to only address according to context by letting the author clarify his own meaning...

Just keep that in mind...
---john9346 on 2/6/18


Kathr, when you can back up what I and other Calvinists believe by citing from our confessions then you can be found real :-)

---john9346 on 2/4/18

This is the most BAZZAR comment I've seen to date....BUT it makes my point....their beliefs are solely based on their man made confessions, not on CHRIST ALONE. All CULTS will tell you you MUST read their EXTRA biblical books, confessions, and adhear to them to be REAL... REAL WHAT? REAL STUPID is what I say.

Why would I need to back up your false beliefs by reading your false confessions...OR is that what you are asking me to do? I AM.

Calvin has ALWAYS said his salvation was from his infant water Baptism. Calvin NEVER claimed any other salvation.
---kathr4453 on 2/5/18


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John9346 * reuben:

"The question is was he still saved?"

John said yes:

So is " was dead" also mean you were still saved please explain?

I ask 'If someone is lost would you say he is saved?"

(no,) was your answer.

LK 15:24 'For this my son was dead, and is alive again, he was lost"

Correct me if I wrong my son was dead(Saved) to you was lost (unsaved)to you..Really!

john9346* "When you turn your back from the Father he dies, spiritually. He is no longer saved."

Reuben, the text doesn't state this my friend.

It states he left home, if walking away is the better term for you ok. It states was dead, and lost and then alive again..
---Ruben on 2/5/18


Actually the TEXT does state that.....alive..dead...alive again.

So we need to further investigate the TRUE MEANING OF THIS PARABLE. To try to force the doctrine of Calvinism here , is what the issue is.

Not everything is about Calvinism John. If the shoe DOESN'T FIT, don't force people to walk in them....it could cause horrible issues with walking UPRIGHT IN TRUTH.

And it even contradicts Isaac's two sons...according to your doctrine...there was a father with two sons. TWINS ACTUALLY. one did squander his birthright didn't he.....and ONE DAY even TODAY I'll bet there are hundreds of thousands of those descendants of Esau who are BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS ..a non elect becoming AN ELECT. how do you like those apples???
---kathr4453 on 2/5/18


There is only one faith Steveng. But we see everyday as more and more false teachers arise, like the prosperity gospel etc, that more and more are falling away from THE FAITH, and following after these teachers who have tickled their ears.

The problem Steveng, like yourself, everyone believes they are of the TRUE FAITH. But your doctrine may not be THE FAITH at all. Yet you think you have faith...and maybe you do, but it may not be faith in the Gospel according to the MYSTERY, which is THE FAITH.

It's not complicated if you are grounded in scripture. Universal salvation also is NOT THE FAITH! But many have put their faith in it....

Many can fall from GRACE....and that would be falling from THE FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/18


reuben:

"The question is was he still saved?" It was his son alright but a dead son!" yes

"When you turn your back from the Father he dies, spiritually. He is no longer saved."

Reuben, the text doesn't state this my friend.
---john9346 on 2/4/18


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"The Father did not say his son is still alive but instead said he was dead and lost."

The father also stated "Alive Again." meaning there was a right relationship before this occurrence.

"If someone is lost would you say he is saved?"

no, but you see this is why I asked you if you understood that this parable is prescriptive or descriptive? Your trying to argue prescriptive for something that is only descriptive the context doesn't allow for this conclusion...

"When he repents of his sins, when he comes back to the Father to seek His mercy, he is alive AGAIN. Y or N."

Because he realize the great sin he had committed.
---john9346 on 2/4/18


Kathr said, "Thirdly, I was comparing the Covenant with Abraham to the false teaching of Calvinism, Mormonism, and EXTREME hyper-dispensationalism . It's a way to EXPOSE ALL FALSE DOCTRINE.
No one said YOU have to like it John. But I will certainly NOT STOP exposing FALSE DOCTRINE."

Hey, don't forget about your False Doctrine? lol

Kathr, when you can back up what I and other Calvinists believe by citing from our confessions then you can be found real :-)

Just remember, G-d sees your dishonest Actions of which he hates...
---john9346 on 2/4/18


Steveng,here is a good example. Janine's and Jambres never had faith. And there resistance to THE FAITH, doesn't affect my faith at all.


2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning "the faith".

But if what I said is confusing to you, I apologize.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/18


John9346*You still have yet to show how this parable disproves, "The Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints."

Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation.

Yes I have the prodigal son parable.

"For this son of mine was DEAD and is ALIVE AGAIN, he was lost and is found." LK 15:24

john 9346* Reuben, Jesus saves to saves he doesn't save people to lose them...

"no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Jesus saves, but he will allow you to leave,

"The younger one said to his father, Father, give me my share of the estate." LK 15:12

I believe the son left right?
---Ruben on 2/4/18


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kathr4453 wrote: ...FAITH is used two different ways in scripture."

Only one faith and that is in God to do what he promised. Why complicate God's word.
---Steveng on 2/4/18


Luke 1:15 / ( Didn't use this verse to say I had the Holy Spirit in me - That is WOW- ?-#^ ?<> ? Is every one born dead First ? - Or can God save before Birth and at time of Death like the thief ? The verses were in line with comments made .)

John 3:8 - The wind blows where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound there, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: So is every one that is born of the Spirit,

Philippians 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Philippians 2:14 - Do all things without murmuring and disputing,
---RichardC on 2/4/18


//Too many fixate on names of church buildings period//
God doesn't require church attendance to gain favor with Him.
He does command us to study His word. The best place to learn about the Scriptures and sound doctrine is by studying within the congregation of saints of a properly functioning assembly, teaching the dispensation of grace or Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, or Paul's gospel Stay away from water baptism, tithing, tongue talking, etc.
God has provided the Word of God for us today. Open up your Bible and start studying daily.
---michael_e on 2/4/18


Actually John RichardC 's post has nothing to do with this blog question. The question above has NOTHING to do with John the Baptist being filled with the spirit in Elizabeth's womb.


Secondly John, you are the one who resorts to LIES and personal character attacks when someone disagrees with you.

Thirdly, I was comparing the Covenant with Abraham to the false teaching of Calvinism, Mormonism, and EXTREME hyper-dispensationalism . It's a way to EXPOSE ALL FALSE DOCTRINE.

No one said YOU have to like it John. But I will certainly NOT STOP exposing FALSE DOCTRINE.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/18


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Steveng, FAITH is used two different ways in scripture. The two word phrase "THE FAITH" simply means the doctrines set down by Jesus, and the Apostles and Prophets...AKA: SOUND DOCTRINE.

And then FAITH, which means our personal trust in anothers Promises.

So many CAN actually sit in your churches, holding on to THE FAITH ( today there are many variations, unlike the beginning) and NEVER had personal faith in THE FAITH to begin with. And THESE are the ones who fall away. Why..because scripture states they never were really with you in the first place. They only had HEAD KNOWLEDGE. They are the ones , like Joseph Smith who come up with FALSE DOCTRINE STARTING NEW DENOMINATIONS. JW's Calvinists, Mormons, etc.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/18


There are many warnings about falling away from the faith and one must have faith to begin with in order to fall away, eh?

When a person endured unto the end of his or her life, they are still saved for it is written that upon the return of Jesus, the dead in Christ shall rise and the living in Christ shall be caught up with the dead.

The ONLY gospel, the good news, is the coming of the Kingdom of God. That's it. Nothing more. The gospel OF Jesus is not ABOUT Jesus, but it is the coming Kingdom of God. And, of course, it was taught HOW to get there.
---Steveng on 2/3/18


kathr said, "John, obviously you have not kept up with RichardC over the years....I have, and RichardC has posted these verses before when discussing Calvinism, as he too is a Calvinist, who claims people were born again in the OT, and uses these scriptures to make that point."

But the question is right here on this posting he has not said that,therefore, that is bearing false witness...

Like I told you on the posting, "Did Paul Replace Judas."

Ma'am, you do not know what we as Calvinists believe you do this same thing to others on this blog. you state falsely what someones believes and then try to debate that person on what you have invented for that person to hold as doctrine...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


Kathr:

Again, you don't understand Calvinism, if you did you would understand that Rom 16:24 is the gospel and is exactly what Calvinism represents as the gospel:

Next, Rom 16:24-27 is a benediction,


If you understood Calvinism then you would know that vs 24 sums up Calvinism, "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."

Kathr, tell the readers here what is the definition of grace??
---john9346 on 2/3/18


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John, obviously you have not kept up with RichardC over the years....I have, and RichardC has posted these verses before when discussing Calvinism, as he too is a Calvinist, who claims people were born again in the OT, and uses these scriptures to make that point.

Don't be so quick to jump in and judge John. You don't have to try to attack me and discredit me because I refute Calvinism and the KNOWN verses used to prove Calvinism. And again this was not addressed to YOU....was it. If I'm wrong about RichardC's post HE CAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF. He didn't accuse me like you did......I wonder why....Maybe because he understood the conversation. You seem to have issues understanding posts don't you? Listen more and speak less John.
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


John9346 *

Yes, but the son never stopped being the Father's Son. Luke doesn't tell us of any adoption,therefore, the son was always the Father's Son.

But the point is not if he is still his son, that is obvious
The question is was he still saved? It was his son alright but a dead son!

When you turn your back from the Father he dies, spiritually. He is no longer saved. The Father did not say his son is still alive but instead said he was dead and lost.

If someone is lost would you say he is saved?

When he repents of his sins, when he comes back to the Father to seek His mercy, he is alive AGAIN. Y or N
---Ruben on 2/3/18


reuben ask, "Does not the story describes his son as having been dead, but upon repenting and returning to the father, the son is said to be alive AGAIN?"

Yes, but the son never stopped being the Father's Son. Luke doesn't tell us of any adoption,therefore, the son was always the Father's Son.

Reuben ask, "Or are you saying you can squanders his inheritance on sinful living and still be in Gods grace?"

Are you asking according to this parable or do you now want to leave this parable?

You still have yet to show how this parable disproves, "The Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints."

Reuben, Jesus saves to saves he doesn't save people to lose them...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


Kathr said, "But Richard...to use John the Baptist and claim YOU had the Holy Spirit in you before you were born WOW. Totally not true."

Kathr, Richard never stated that ma'am. Why are you now Bearing False Witness.

G-d finds lying lips an abomination Prov 12:22

Come on disagree with him is one thing but to lie on the gentleman...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


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This is the TRUE GOSPEL, and NOT Calvinism

Romans 16:24-27

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

****(Calvinism makes no such doctrinal claim)*****making Calvinism a FALSE Gospel, like all the other false gospels out today.

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


I see Richard using verses about Israel, who was Gods firstborn, so says scripture, and also says in Amos....ONLY YOU HAVE I KNOWN OF ALL THE FAMILIES ON EARTH.

So yes, out of Israel, not only did God KNOW and choose His servants...and prophets. John the Baptist again was one such person.

But Richard...to use John the Baptist and claim YOU had the Holy Spirit in you before you were born WOW. Totally not true.

But again, they LOVE these kind of verses and OMIT the others.

Even Paul , a Jew, never made such a claim. He claims he received the Holy Spirit AFTER he believed, After he was struck down on the road to domascus...on his way to MURDER CHRISTIANS. Can't say that of John the Baptist a PROPHET though .
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


Luke 1:15 - For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink, and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother womb.

Jeremiah 1:4 - Then the Word of the Lord came unto me saying.

Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I form thee in the belly I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet, unto the nations.

Jeremiah 1:6 - Then said I, Ah, Lord God ! Behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.

Jeremiah 1:7 - But the Lord said unto me , Say not, I am a child : for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak,
---RichardC on 2/2/18


Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints,


Actually the word PERSEVERANCE is only used once in scripture and is NOT teaching Calvinism.

If referring to Jude 1:1 the word is not perseverance but PRESERVED. Two entirely different words And applications.

Jude is talking about those who have first passed the JUSTIFICATION PART, now SANCTIFIED...which mean they have been Born Again. These do not squander their inheritance and become DEAD AGAIN EVER.

Everyone is BORN DEAD FIRST. So no one is born ALIVE in Christ before they are justified FIRST.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


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Next, the question here is did at anytime did the son stop being the Father's Child??

The answer is no, in this parable you have alive, dead, and alive again, not dead to being alive.

Still waiting for you to show how this disproves the "Perseverance of the Saints."
---john9346 on 2/1/18

John,

Does not dead mean being cut-off from the Father?

Or are you saying you can squanders his inheritance on sinful living and still be in Gods grace?

Does not the story describes his son as having been dead, but upon repenting and returning to the father, the son is said to be alive AGAIN?
---Ruben on 2/2/18


Reuben, When John CANT defend and explain his false doctrine ( Calvinism) through scripture, his PAT ANSWER is to tell you...YOU DONT UNDERSTAND CALVINISM. Does anyone here see a problem with this answer. ALL DOCTRINE OF CHRISTIANITY should be easily explained through scripture, and Calvinism has NOTHING to do with it.

I also get this lame excuse from John.

Rueben, NO doctrine of "election" or anykind teaches one is first made alive and then can DIE when they sin and come alive AGAIN BY THEIR OWN FREE WILL HAHA when they repent and on and on. Hebrews 6:4-6 make that clear.

Even this bogus teaching does not follow Calvinism.....only John's desire to sound high and lofty and smarter than he really is.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


Reuben, I suggest you look up Gotquestions concerning this parable. They are awesome in going all the way back into the OT and laying a scriptural foundation for the parable. Also DON'T try to see it through Calvin's eyes. Calvinism takes the FREE WILL PART, and the part where when the son is DEAD, he still can REPENT....again exposing CALVINISM's lie of total depravity! And somehow saying this is only about those already elect... AGAIN IS WRONG. But that's how they get around questions like you have...that are EXCELLENT QUESTIONS.

Don't ever let anyone shut you down when you ask or question. They HATE it, and resort to name calling....but that's how CULTS operate.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


Reuben,

First, respectfully, I do not believe you possess a knowledge of Calvinism so lets remain on topic...

Next, the question here is did at anytime did the son stop being the Father's Child??

The answer is no, in this parable you have alive, dead, and alive again, not dead to being alive.

Still waiting for you to show how this disproves the "Perseverance of the Saints."
---john9346 on 2/1/18


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Sir, the parable is teaching repentance. although the son left, he never ceased being the Father's Son.

This parable in no ways in context denies or teach against the Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints...

---john9346 on 1/30/18

John,

In your Calvinist terminology to be dead is to be unsaved, and to be alive is to be saved, Y or N? Notice the Father said " My son is alive again" So he was alive(saved) at the beginning of the parable, was dead(unsaved) he went out of the father house and lived in sin. Repented and was alive (saved again)when he return home. So we have the son alive, dead, and alive again, in other words saved, unsaved and save again!
---Ruben on 2/1/18


Reuben ask, "What am I contradicting?"

The parable when you state, "Especially, when he allows you to leave."

Sir, the parable is teaching repentance. although the son left, he never ceased being the Father's Son.

This parable in no ways in context denies or teach against the Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints...

Remember, you've all ready admitted its not prescriptive...
---john9346 on 1/30/18


Sir, your contradicting the parable.

The father said in vs 24 and 32 was dead, not was alive went dead, and now alive again...

The father said was loss not was found, went loss, and now is found again...
---john9346 on 1/29/18

Luke 15:24 and 32,

24: "For this my son was dead, and is alive again, he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry."

32, "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again, and was lost, and is found."

What am I contradicting?
---Ruben on 1/30/18


Reuben states, "Especially, when he allows you to leave."

Sir, your contradicting the parable.

The father said in vs 24 and 32 was dead, not was alive went dead, and now alive again...

The father said was loss not was found, went loss, and now is found again...
---john9346 on 1/29/18


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The parable is a "Beautiful Depiction." of God's Heart towards sinners... It really conveys God's Joy and Welcoming towards undeserving Rebels...

I believe, Lk 15
---john9346 on 1/29/18

Especially, when he allows you to leave(Father, give me my share of the estate. )and loving waits for you to return "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again, he was lost and is found. So they began to celebrate."
---Ruben on 1/29/18


Reuben states, "Descriptive. In your fallible man made interpretation of the prodigal son what is the meaning of the story?"

Sir, thank you the parable isn't "Prescriptive.", but "Descriptive."

The parable is a "Beautiful Depiction." of God's Heart towards sinners... It really conveys God's Joy and Welcoming towards undeserving Rebels...

I believe, Lk 15
---john9346 on 1/29/18


"Jesus was ask why speak in parables. He answers:"

But is the parable you raised "Prescriptive." or "Descriptive." yes or no?
---john9346 on 1/27/18

Descriptive. In your fallible man made interpretation of the prodigal son what is the meaning of the story?
---Ruben on 1/29/18


Nicole said, "John, I can show many Scriptures in the Gospels alone where Jesus used His parables to send people to hell for faith alone and without faith."

Nicole, what you must show are those parables "Prescriptive." or are they, "Descriptive?"

Remember what a parable is??

Nicole, Biblical Doctrine is never built upon parables ma'am because parables are only illustrations or examples...

Illustrations or examples aren't literal
---john9346 on 1/28/18


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John, I can show many Scriptures in the Gospels alone where Jesus used His parables to send people to hell for faith alone and without faith.

Outside of His parables He tells everyone to DO or FOLLOW He commands not Just LISTEN to His commands
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/28/18


Reuben:

" The only time in scripture it has faith alone together!"

And your point how is James contradicting "Faith Alone??"

"Jesus was ask why speak in parables. He answers:"

But is the parable you raised "Prescriptive." or "Descriptive." yes or no?
---john9346 on 1/27/18


john9346* Reuben"

Notice, you do not address the context that clearly states the differences between a dead and living faith...

The only time in scripture it has faith alone together!

john9346* Lk 15 regarding the prodigal son is a parable and it is descriptive not, "Prescriptive." its only a parable an illustration...

Jesus was ask why speak in parables. He answers:

13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand...

16 But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear.

John I pray that our eyes be open and our ears so that you can understand.
---Ruben on 1/27/18


Reuben:

" So when did the "infallible" stop??"

When the canon closed.

"It tells us "If we confess our sins" Are you saying they taught that you go to Jesus only? That verse does not say that."

Sir, explain, who else but God alone can forgive sin??

"Bible Alone: Acts 15 disproves the doctrine of sola Scriptura."

Explain how a chapter of Scripture contradicts itself?? This is a Logical Fallacy...

---john9346 on 1/24/18


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Reuben states, "Faith Alone: James 2:24 " We are justify by works and not by faith alone.""

Notice, you do not address the context that clearly states the differences between a dead and living faith...

Lk 15 regarding the prodigal son is a parable and it is descriptive not, "Prescriptive." its only a parable an illustration...

Reuben, your being Logically Inconsistent you don't believe in Sola Scriptura,yet, your trying to use it regarding OSAS...
---john9346 on 1/24/18


Monk, there are more for you to discover. You might look in a yellow pages listing or on the Net.

Not all Protestants are busy with criticizing what names Catholic parishes use. Episcopal churches can very frequently use names of their saints.

But others use things like "Faith", "Bible", "Victory", "Overcomers", "Grace Gospel", "New Hope", and various others.

By the way, I call myself "com7fy8" (c: including comfy in this name, because Hebrews 13:5 says, "be content with such things as you have" and God's love makes us unconditionally content.
---Bill on 1/6/18


Monk_Brendan wrote: "StephenG, why didn't you answer me the first time I asked,.."

Unlike most of the people on this site, I'm not on it every single day. I do have a real life to attend to.

By the way, how does it make you feel when posting my name as "StephenG" instead of my given screen name "Steveng"? ((8= & #8286,))
---Steveng on 12/29/17


So true Mark. So true.

Hope you have a Happy New Year.

Let us keep our eyes on Jesus.

Seventh day Adventist are boring. We mostly name our churches after their location.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/29/17


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How is it that I never see a "Crucified with Christ" Baptist Church, or "Jesus the Suffering Servant" Assemblies of God Church?
---Monk_Brendan on 12/26/17

Why are churches named "the Amazing Life" church verses "the Crucified Life" church?

Honestly, would you be interested in a "boring little car" or a "small zoom-zoom car"?

Its about human nature. We want the "easier, softer way" verses the "work at work, work at play" kind of life.

The same for our church. A simple glance at attendance and tithe records will show you that most attenders do not tithe, and most who do attend, do not attend more than 75% of services offered.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/28/17


Monk and John good points.

If they took the images off the money people would still worship money.

When you ask a friend to pray for you that is not worshipping

But when you bow down to a statue and pray to that person hoping to get them to do what you want and that they will convince Jesus to do your will.

That is idolatry.

We only pray to GOD. Jesus Christ is our High Priest and he alone.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 12/28/17


StephenG said, "According to the bible God frowns on graven images and pictures because they not only give a false impression, but people tend to attach themselves to the image.""

StephenG, why didn't you answer me the first time I asked, when I asked if you burned your money and defaced your coins the instant you received them?

Money is, after all, the most global of idols, and to use those graven images is the height of hypocrisy if you are trying to be "pure" before God.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/28/17


steveng states, "According to the bible God frowns on graven images and pictures because they not only give a false impression, but people tend to attach themselves to the image."

Yahweh's Reason for forbidding images is do to the fact that the Israelites worshipped them. If I have a cross in my home to remember The Birth, Death, Burial, and Resurrection of the Lord jesus thats one thing, but if I take that same cross and burn incense, light candles, and say prayers to that cross now that is idolatry and an abomination to Yahweh God...
---john9346 on 12/28/17


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Samuelbb7 wrote: "But we humans use it for buildings and denominations also.

There is no "buts" concerning the word of God.

Samuelbb7 wrote: "So the images aren't sin. It is what we do with them."

According to the bible God frowns on graven images and pictures because they not only give a false impression, but people tend to attach themselves to the image.
---Steveng on 12/27/17


True Steven the word church means the called out people of GOD.

But we humans use it for buildings and denominations also.

The Commandments says:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

So the images aren't sin. It is what we do with them.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/27/17


\\Lastly, the true church, the christians, does not need something made by man's hands - a building, a cross, graven images, pictures, etc. - to remind them they are christians.\\

I bet you're envious because YOUR worldly denominational "church" of Steveng doesn't have a building.

And what do you--its only member--do with the graven images and pictures of dead presidents in your pocket. After all, you don't really need them if you're a true Christian, do you?

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/17


First of all, the christians ARE the church, not a building ("I didn't see you in church this morning" "Our church has great sound system") or a denomination (Satan has had over 2,000 years to infiltrate and divide christiandom up into over 65,000 different denominations each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Is Christ divided?).

Lastly, the true church, the christians, does not need something made by man's hands - a building, a cross, graven images, pictures, etc. - to remind them they are christians.
---Steveng on 12/26/17


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Well,

The name of something doesn't matter its if that organization lines up with "Scripture."
For example, church of jesus Christ of latter day saints.

It says, "jesus Christ.", but not the Jesus revealed in "Scripture."
---john9346 on 12/26/17


Crosses still up at our church.
---KarenD on 12/26/17


Not only are they not putting the name of Jesus crucified on the outside, they are removing the crosses from the inside as well.

Some have earth globes in place of the cross.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/26/17


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