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Mix Of Grace Law Or

The gospel is to believe on Jesus, John 3:16. This is God's will (John 6:40), and the works we do (John 6:29).

But at least one person claims salvation is based on deeds, without the need of Jesus. For others it's a mix of grace with works of law.

What does scripture say the gospel is?

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 ---Haz27 on 12/29/17
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Matthew 25 is about the difference between fake Christians and real one.

They act in love of GOD and love others. Instead of just words.

Matthew 7:20-24 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
---Samuelbb7 on 1/16/18


Haz27:

You wrote: Matt 25 YOU claim sheep are saved, but are NOT Christians.

I have asked you to explain WHY Christians would ask "when did we see you hungry and feed you?" several times, yet you have never answered this. Why the deflection?

Matthew 10 doesn't SPECIFICALLY refer to Christians - it could refer to either Christians or non-Christians.

BTW, I've repeatedly quoted scripture to you showing how Matt 25 & 10, etc refer to Christians, using RITUAL descriptors.

Those scriptures had NOTHING to do with Matthew 25 and 10 WHATSOEVER.
---StrongAxe on 1/16/18


AXE. Again you offer obfuscation to avoid explaining your contradictions.

Matt 25 YOU claim sheep are saved, but are NOT Christians.
That is these sheep (who reject JC) are saved SOLELY by some ambiguous level of good deeds.

Matt 10 YOU claim is NOT specifically describing Christians. You claim that simply giving a cup of water results in salvation reward, even if such a person rejects JC.

You have constantly avoided explaining your claims that those who reject JC, are saved SOLELY by works.
I'm wondering whether this is some silly game you're playing, or just an odd quirk.

BTW, I've repeatedly quoted scripture to you showing how Matt 25 & 10, etc refer to Christians, using SPIRITUAL descriptors.
---Haz27 on 1/16/18


Haz27:

I wrote: The selection criterion between sheep and goats here is SOLELY based on deeds, NOT on faith...

You repeatedly ignored the word here even when I highighted it with underline, bold, italics, and MARQUEE to make sure you couldn't miss it! I was specifically talking about Matthew 25 ONLY, not about the whole bible!

Christians would know better than to ask "when did we feed you?" since they would already know the answer. SO WHO ARE THEY?

You have yet to answer how Christians would not already know this.
---StrongAxe on 1/16/18


AXE. You repeatedly make contradictory claims.
To refresh your memory here's 3 of your claims below that contradict your last post.

The selection criterion between sheep and goats here is SOLELY based on deeds, NOT on faith...

Christians would know better than to ask "when did we feed you?" since they would already know the answer. SO WHO ARE THEY?

In Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41, Jesus says anyone who gives a cup of water will have his reward - NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HE'S A BELIEVER".


I've repeatedly shown you, from scripture, how Matt 25, 10, etc refers to Christians.
But you have repeatedly argued they're not.
---Haz27 on 1/15/18




Haz27:

You wrote: AXE. It's clear you follow a gospel where JC is irrelevant to salvation as works is enough.

I've repeatedly told you that this is NOT the case, but my words fall on deaf ears.

You take Matt 25, Matt 10:42, in isolation from the the Bible,

Yes - because I was speaking ONLY about what they SPECIFICALLY say. I Never said that was the WHOLE message of the Bible.

You have until the end of this blog to flog this dead horse, and then I'm done with it.
---StrongAxe on 1/15/18


AXE. It's clear you follow a gospel where JC is irrelevant to salvation as works is enough.

You take Matt 25, Matt 10:42, in isolation from the the Bible, claiming they indicate anyone who REJECTS JC is still saved based SOLELY upon works, NOT faith.

Your false doctrine in effect claims that Muslims who deny Jesus is the Christ who died for our sin, and Atheists who deny that sin is even an issue anyway, are still saved if they give a cup of literal water, or do good deeds.

You've consistently failed to justify your false gospel of salvation based on works without the need for JC.

Nobody comes to the Father but through JC, John 14:6, BUT according to you, JC and his sacrifice for sin are not really necessary.
---Haz27 on 1/15/18


Haz27:

You attack and accuse me in almost every post (e.g. "false gospel", "deflection", "leftie"). I rarely snap at you - only from constant provocation, then you pull the "victim card" card.

About the "primary issue of the Bible", you mention many important scriptures on faith, yet ignore important ones on works like Matthew 25, and James 2 about both. Why? To see the whole picture about ANYTHING, you should see all angles. As with most arguments, you cite things agreeing with your point while ignoring anything with even a slightly different perspective. Talk about deflection!

John 14:6.

Matthew 25 sheep did the will of Jesus without even realizing it.
---StrongAxe on 1/14/18


AXE. Your misleading and hypocritical use of the victim narrative is clearly just more of your usual deflection.

Salvation is the primary issue in the Bible.

We are called upon to believe on JC, John 3:16.

To believe on JC is the will of God, John 6:40.

Our works are to believe on JC, John 6:29.

Unbelief in JC is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

Nobody comes to the Father but through JC, John 14:6.

But YOU claim that Matt 25, Matt 10:42, etc contradicts the above, saying instead that good physical deeds saves those who reject JC, reject the will of God, committing the very sin the world is convicted of.

You should justify your claim.
---Haz27 on 1/14/18


Haz27:

You wrote: AXE. I see youre now even gloating of your virtue of being long suffering

Gloating? Are you even CAPABLE of making a post without accusing somenoe of something? Read your New Testament and see who is called "the accuser", and whose agenda you seem to be following.

I point out the flaws that legislators have as a group. You point out flaws *I* have personally. That is the difference.

Still waiting for you to explain your doctrines contradiction of the gospel.

I have explained already, but you will keep waiting until icicles drip from Satan's nose.
---StrongAxe on 1/14/18




AXE. I see youre now even gloating of your virtue of being long suffering under a supposed constant attack by me, in spite of the fact you constantly deflect and obfuscate to avoid justifying your false gospel. And dont forget how you constantly attacked Conservatives with the derogatory lies from your Leftist leaders and Fake News media.
Clearly pot calling kettle black.

Still waiting for you to explain your doctrines contradiction of the gospel.
How can someone who rejects JC be saved by giving a cup of literal water in Matt 10.42?
How can someone who rejects JC be a saved sheep in Matt 25?
---Haz27 on 1/13/18


John 3:16, a wonderful verse, if you are Israel looking for your Messiah.
It communicates the person of Jesus being Christ, but not the gospel we preach today. It says nothing of His finished work. This work had not yet been done, and would not be explained until revealed later to the church.
The church, the gospel, and our preaching of Jesus Christ for today was a mystery that had not yet been revealed in Matthew-John. We now know the gospel of Christ that saves through the writings of Paul in such passages as Romans 3, or succinctly in 1 Cor 15:1-4:
John 3:16, a good verse unless you are trying to preach the cross of Christ, the power of God unto salvation. Then, you might consider something in Pauls epistles like Romans 5:8.
---michael_e on 1/13/18


Steveng:

I'm usually very long-suffering. It usually takes a lot, over a long time, to provoke me, unlike Haz27, who attacks me in almost every post.


Haz27:

I only "admit" things in your own mind as you read between the lines. I have NOT "refused to answer". I answer repeatedly. You just don't like the answer.

Matthew 10:42 says ANYONE will have "his reward", and is literally about water.

Sigmund Freud once said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Sometimes when the Bible talks about water, it's ACTUALLY talking about water.
---StrongAxe on 1/13/18


AXE. Seems you now admit you were repeatedly refusing to answer me, even thinking its not provocative, whilst you allege I'm provocative by repeatedly trying to get you to explain your contradiction of gospel.

Lets consider your contradiction of gospel.

Gospel=believe on Jesus to be saved, John 3:16.
BUT YOU claim sheep (the saved) in Matt 25 are NOT Christians but saved anyway based on deeds. This also contradicts John 14:6, NOBODY COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH JC.

You say Matt 10:42 ANYONE (including those who reject JC) is saved by giving a cup of water. Again you contradict gospel. But when we see Prov 25:25 water=GOOD NEWS (gospel) which is what CHRISTIANS preach to the lost.
---Haz27 on 1/12/18


StrongAxe wrote: "Yet you say not a peep against Haz27's incessant attacks against me that provoked it,.."

So, you're easily provoked to anger? Besides, your animation attracted my attention.
---Steveng on 1/12/18


So true Samuel. Some 30% some 70% and some 100%. But WE HAVE no verse saying they will produce O%. It's clear the O%ers are the ones that walked away because this or that was too hard. Just as those Jesus confronted in John 6....they followed for a period, but said it was too hard and walked away. If there is nothing involved but a "head nod", ( nothing HARD about that right)

Yes our Life under GRACE is actually HARDER than someone trying to keep the law. I DIE DAILY is harder than keeping the law. WHY! Because it takes OBEDIENCE and SUBMISSION by the power of the Holy Spirit in us that we have to cooperate with to bring forth that fruit that ONLY comes via...I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 1/12/18


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Haz27:

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I had his/her once, but you never clarified which was correct. Message limits don't permit =saying his/her every time.

Refusing to answeris is not provocative. Jesus refused to tell Pharisees where his authority came from, or Pilate if he was king. Constantly accusing me of a "false gospel" IS provocative, as accusations always are.

Matt 25+James 2 don't contradict the gospel. They say different things, and must be reconciled. Look up "dialectic".

How do YOU interpret Matt 10:42? Jesus says ANYONE, not ANY CHRISTIAN.

Anyway, I have given you my answers, but since you don't like them, there's nothing more I can tell you on the subject. Please move on.
---StrongAxe on 1/12/18


No one is saved by works.

But no one who is saved will not work. All those who are saved will produce fruit.

Galatians 5:18-25 ... But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Ephesians 2. Love works.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/12/18


AXE. I see you're assuming my gender now.
Haz in Australia, is like Hal in USA. It's short for Harold.

As for provocation, my view is you have been provocative through your constant deflection and obfuscation to avoid answering my questions.

My points you failed to answer.

You suggest the sheep in Matt 25 are not Christians.

You suggest Matt 25, James 2. etc contradict the gospel.

You suggest Matt 10:42 speaks of non Christians as being saved based on giving a cup of water as a good deed.

You isolate the likes of Matt 25, etc from the rest of the Bible and then insist that your perspective that non Christians are saved based on good deeds is valid without the need for you to justify it.

---Haz27 on 1/12/18


Steveng:

I wrote: Can you PLEASE get this through your thick skull?

You wrote: Not a christian response.

Yet you say not a peep against Haz27's incessant attacks against me that provoked it, or do you think THOSE are Christian responses? Before asking me to remove the speck from my eye, ask her to remove the beam from hers.
---StrongAxe on 1/12/18


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AXE. Your constant obfuscation, deflection, and now even bluff and bluster, to avoid in depth scrutiny of your claims, only suggests you fail to understand the scriptures you quoted and just refuse to admit it.

And what's your false gospel?

You suggest Matt 25 sheep are non Christians who are saved based SOLELY on deeds.

You suggest Matt 25 contradicts the gospel.

You suggest Matt 10:42 is not referring to Christians with your claim there's "no fine print about "but only if he's a believer".

You have used the valid excuse before that CN's word limits make it difficult to answer everything, BUT you've had many opportunities to explain your false gospel, and avoided doing so.
---Haz27 on 1/12/18


StrongAxe wrote: "Can you PLEASE get this through your thick skull?"

Not a christian response.
---Steveng on 1/11/18


Haz27:

Stop. Just STOP. I have explained repeatedly that I was speaking SOLELY about what Matthew 25 was saying, yet you keep INSISTING that this is "my false gospel", because you continue to disregard EVERYTHING ELSE I SAY about the subject after your repeated questions. Because you REFUSE to listen, I will cease to "kick against the goads", and decline to discuss anything more with you on this subject, since it is a total waste of my time and effort, and that of everyone else who reads these blogs.

Perhaps when you learn how to seriously consider what others say, and actualy listen without constantly screaming accusations, I might consider discussing things with you further. Until then, good day.
---StrongAxe on 1/11/18


AXE. Again you avoid answering by conveniently isolating Matt 25, Matt 10, Mark 9, from the Bible insisting it's "SOLELY works, NOT faith" for those who reject JC.

Your words there's NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER" confirms this.

You consistently avoid explaining your false gospel.

Matt 25 is hypothetical, LIKENING the kingdom of Heaven to virgins with or without oil in lamps, or giving talents to servants and the one who made no profit was cast out, etc.

Matt 25 speaks hypothetically of entry or rejection from God's kingdom. Are the virgins with oil, and servants with talents also speaking of those who reject JC but saved by works under your false gospel?

---Haz27 on 1/11/18


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Haz27:

Then please explain why these Christians asked Jesus "when did we feed you?" since Christians would obviously already know the answer to this question?

Jesus's parables were all hypothetical. However, in this one, he specifically says, "The Son of Man SHALL come in glory, and...". This is NOT hypothetical, but a prediction of actual events.

I was offering my interpretation of Matthew 25, nothing more. For the umpteenth time, I said that THIS one particular scripture speaks only about works, not that ALL scripture does. I have also repeatedly said James 2 requires both. Can you PLEASE get this through your thick skull?
---StrongAxe on 1/11/18


Question:
Why does Paul seemingly teach against Works for salvation in one place, and then promote Works for Salvation in other places?
Answer:
Because Paul taught both Jew and Gentile believer. When he teaches against Works, he is referring to the Law of Moses. When he promotes Works, he is referring to the Law of Christ. Proof?

(Acts 21:20-21) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe, and they are all zealous of the law: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
---David on 1/11/18


AXE. As I said to you before, the sheep are Christians, as I showed from other scriptures defining the spiritual descriptors in Matt 25.

As for your argument, it suggests the sheep in Matt 25 are NOT Christians because Christians would already know what JC refers to in Matt 25.
Also you ignore the fact it's a PARABLE, that LIKENS the Kingdom of Heaven to.....

Again, you are yet to justify your false gospel that salvation is based SOLELY on deeds, NOT faith.
Remember YOU SAID, there's NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER" -12/22/17
Can I suggest that instead of all this deflection to avoid answering my questions, that you would do better admitting you don't understand Matt 25, James 2, Matt 7,
---Haz27 on 1/11/18


Haz27:

You wrote: BTW, still waiting for you to explain your suggestion that belief in JC is not needed for salvation as somehow deeds are sufficient.

This is directly contingent on who the sheep (who are obviously saved) are in Matthew 25.

I'm still waiting for you to explain who YOU think they are. As I mentioned several times, Christians would know better than to ask "when did we feed you?" since they would already know the answer. So who are they?
---StrongAxe on 1/10/18


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1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

This is the Gospel. Those who believe will love GOD and love others. Works happen because you love. They are part of the fruit of being filled with the Holy Spirit.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/10/18


Out of the twenty plus verses I gave (and there are hundreds of others) and you still continue to think that obedience is work?

The bible teaches us to love others, so how does one love, as in the verb form, others.

What is true religion?

What about those people who do not believe in God or Jesus, but, yet, will have eternal life?
---Steveng on 1/10/18


Hebrews 11:7-8 perfect examples. David, here's a perfect example of Faith in action. Romans 16:24-27. THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH...again not obedience to the LAW, but obedience to the Gospel according to the mystery. So WHAT IS THE MYSTERY. Scripture states CHRIST IN YOU is the mystery. So HOW to OBEY this Gospel according to the mystery. I see one answer is in Romans 6-8. Yield, present yourselves to God as alive from the dead. AKA total surrender, REITERATED IN Romans 12:1-2.......rom 8...walk in the Spirit...I die daily...keeping this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus...becoming obedient unto death.....Phil 3 Pressing on, ..no longer part of this world system....THIS IS JUST SOME OF WHAT WE ARE TO OBEY TODAY.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/18


AXE. Pharisees, Sadducees also believed there is one God, just as demons do (James 2:19).

But demons, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc, all refuse to submit to God's righteousness (Rom 10:3) thus they refuse to believe on Jesus, as the Christ, hence they are antiChrist (1John 2:22).

Believing in Jesus is really NOT believing in Jesus, but instead it's believing in God (John 12:44). Pharisees, Sadducees, demons, etc, do not believe in Jesus.

They reject the will of God (John 6:40, 1Thess 4:3), they reject Christ's command (John 3:16), they reject the works Jesus described we do (John 6:29).

BTW, still waiting for you to explain your suggestion that belief in JC is not needed for salvation as somehow deeds are sufficient.
---Haz27 on 1/10/18


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Well Travelosity, no need for SNIDE COMMENTS.....SO CHILDISH

TODAY The Gospel according to the MYSTERY is preached to both Jew and Gentile INDIVIDUALS who can accept or reject on their own. When that happens one becomes NEITHER JEW OR GENTILE, but a New Creature IN CHRIST. So after this time, called the dispensation of the Grace of God that was given to Paul for the Gentiles , and when this TIME HAS BEEN fulfilled. THEN God will turn to the NATION as a whole, and the NATION as a whole will according to scripture be approx 1/3 of Jewish People ...Zechariah 12-14 ...will make it through the Great Tribulation, being brought back to Israel the LAND where the fulfillment of the NEW COVENANT to Israel and Judah will be fulfilled.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/18


Till the fulness of the ...
---kathr4453 on 1/9/18

Judah was blinded to this day like yourself...
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
(election, Lost sheep of the Nth House of Israel)
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Deu_14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
---Trav on 1/10/18


Steveng:

To further clarify.

James 2:19: Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The devils have faith, but it doesn't save them. Why not? Because they believe (faith) but despite this, they don't obey (works), so their faith does them no good.
---StrongAxe on 1/10/18


DAVID. The TWO commands of JC that Christians keep are (1John 3:23)
1: Believe on Jesus, John 3:16 (wherein our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5)
2: Love others (John 13:34)

So far you seem to be ignoring the many scriptures I've quoted to you in your efforts to argue that we are to mix works of the law with grace (BTW I'm aware of the various doctrines that try to justify the mixing of works of law with grace).

Many scriptures warn against mixing works of the law with grace (which is spiritual adultery).

We must not mix works of the law with grace (Rom 11:6).
The thief on cross and the woman in Luke 7:50 just believed on JC only to be saved. They did NO works of the law.
---Haz27 on 1/10/18


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Steveng:

You wrote: Obedience is NOT works.

On the contrary, obedience is the ESSENCE of works. Works are things you DO. Obedience is something you DO.
---StrongAxe on 1/10/18


David, the answer is clearly in your verse posted. The key word is OBEY. ---kathr4453

Kathryn
Then you agree, obedience to the Law of Christ is a requirement of salvation?

To not obey truth, and instead obey unrighteousness, is to mix works of law with grace. -Haz27

Haz
When Paul teaches against Works, Many folks do not take into account that Paul was referring to the Law of Moses, not the Law of Christ.

Pauls Anti-Law statements were directed at the Jews, those who were under the Law of Moses, not the Gentile believers, those who were never under the Law. (Acts 21:20-21)
---David on 1/10/18


AXE. Jesus spoke in parables (Matt 13:11-14) so that ONLY Christians receive understanding.

Matt 25 speaks of Kingdom of Heaven is LIKENED TO (Matt 25:1 & 14).
The fact the Bible is available to all Christians TODAY telling us the message in Matt 25, then CLEARLY Christians TODAY know about it. Thus your point is irrelevant.
In fact your straw man argument suggests NO Christians are saved because we all know sheep & goat message.
The sheep CLEARLY are Christians who preached gospel to the SPIRITUALLY needy.

So again, you are yet to justify your false gospel that salvation is based SOLELY on deeds, NOT faith.
Remember YOU SAID, there's NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER" -12/22/17
---Haz27 on 1/10/18


Exactly Steveng. Obedience of faith is our action to,what God has said or proclaimed. Abraham OBEYED Gods voice....where Paul uses the word OBEDIENCE, James uses the word works. It doesn't matter, because the content and ACTION is the same....being obedient to Gods voice.

Works, like giving to the poor, loving this or that ...anyone can do...even someone not saved. ONLY those who DO the WILL of God Steveng. The Will of God is to OBEY. Romans 16:24-27... To OBEY the Gospel according to the MYSTERY.....which was only made known to man after the resurrection of Jesus Christ....Colossians 1:24-27.

It's all there, but it's up to you to OBEY it.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/18


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kathr4453 wrote: "... OBEDIENCE OF FAITH."

Obedience is NOT works.
---Steveng on 1/9/18


Haz27:

These are undeniable truths from the Matthew 25 "sheep and goats" parable:
1) Jesus gives the righteous sheep an eternal reward
2) He tells them it was because they fed him when he was hungry, etc.
3) They ask him "when did we do this?"

The question is, who are these righteous sheep? If they were Christians, they would ALREADY know this scripture, and they wouldn't NEED to ask the question. Who do YOU think they are, and WHY do they need to ask the question? I await your reply.
---StrongAxe on 1/9/18


DAVID. To not obey truth, and instead obey unrighteousness, is to mix works of law with grace. Such are spiritual adulterers (James 4.4), lukewarm (Rev 3:16), mixing sweet water (grace) with bitter (works of law), James 3.11.

AXE. Heres your 2 quotes again in the hope youll stop deflecting from your false gospel that belief in JC is unnecessary.

It's also clear these people are confused because they don't know why they are being rewarded. If they were all Christians, don't you think they would all KNOW and not need to ask? -12/20/17

Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41, Jesus says anyone who gives a cup of water will have his reward - NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER". -12/22/17
---Haz27 on 1/9/18


Till the fulness of the GENTILES COME IN. The 12 Tribes of Israel were never called NATIONS. However NATIONS refer to Gentile Nations, like Egypt, etc. The ethnological list of NATIONS is listed in Genesis 10...which are the generations of the sons of Noah after the flood.
---kathr4453 on 1/9/18


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AXE. Yet again you avoid answering for your flawed claim (see 2 quotes of yours I gave in post 1/8/18) that believing on JC is not necessary as good deeds are sufficient to be saved.
Your constant deflection, etc, in avoiding answering for your false claim is not helping you.

DAVID. The works Christians do is to believe on JC, John 6.29.
This is also the will of God, John 6.40, 1Thess 4.3.
Unbelief in JC is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16.9.

This is confirmed by examples such as the woman in Luke 7.50, and the thief on cross who called Jesus Lord.

But mixing works of law with grace, cannot be, Rom 11.6, Gal 3.3.
---Haz27 on 1/9/18


//.."that blindness in part is happened to Israel," Blindness is still upon Judah//
Israel was and is one nation. How many nations do you say Judah is?

Rom 11:7"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election (believers) hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded."
Who blinded them? God did, and He set a spiritual blindness on the nation that is holding until this very day. But it's not going to last forever, because one day that blindness is going to fall from the nation's eyes, and God will once again pick up where He left off with them.
---michael_e on 1/9/18


David, the answer is clearly in your verse posted. The key word is OBEY.

Romans 6 also say OBEY FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE ONCE DELIVERED TO YOU.
---kathr4453 on 1/9/18


mystery of Christ is ....without Israels kingdom, Israels law, without Israels faith (Rom 11:32).
---michael_e on 1/6/18

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Ethnos/Nations be come in. (The Nth House of Israel)
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Blindness is still upon Judah who has not accepted to this day. The Nth House Sheep accept...when they are told the truth.
---Trav on 1/9/18


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//BUT, you constantly avoid dealing with my critique of your claim that it's not necessary to believe on JC based on your flawed understanding of Matt 25, James 2.//

Haz, StrongAxe never said what you claim he does, and your assertion of this simply is untrue.

FWIW, our Epistle Saturda,y (Theophany) from Titus said that we are redeemed by grace to be ZEALOUS for good works.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/9/18


Haz27:

Like I keep saying, your constant deflection and obfuscation is dragging out this debate.

No. I want this debate to end. It's YOUR constant flogging this dead horse that is "dragging out this debate", even to the point of dragging it over to other blogs for which it is not the blog topic, and hijacking those blogs to continue. Let's just agree to disagree, and stop already, since neither of us is likely to budge. All this is doing is wasting precious blog space here and elsewhere, for no useful purpose. Enough already!
---StrongAxe on 1/9/18


(Romans 2, 5-10) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God....Who will render to every man according to his deeds... To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life...But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile, But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good...

Kathryn and Haz
How does this fit into your, NO works salvation doctrine?
---David on 1/9/18


Except Steveng left out some of the most important ones.

Romans 6-8. Require action on our part called OBEDIENCE OF FAITH.

Without obeying Romans 16:24-27 which is OBEDIENCE TO THE Gospel ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY, for the obedience of faith....all those verses Steveng listed are self effort works. Not the same thing.

Then we need to BY FAITH obey Colossians 3:1-4, Philippians 3 ...just for starters. This is what WE are called to...OUR WALK OF FAITH! Being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 1/9/18


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Helping those in need are works based upon "love," as in the verb form. The following verses of works based upon faith:

James 2:14-17
Galatians 6:2
1 John 3:17-18
Matthew 25:35-40
Proverbs 22:9
Hebrews 13:16
Isaiah 25:4
Acts 20:35-38
Isaiah 1:17
Mark 12:31
Proverbs 29:7
Ephesians 4:28
Romans 15:1
1 Timothy 5:8
Deuteronomy 15:7-8,10
Galatians 6:7-10
Hebrews 6-10
Isaiah 58:10-11
Isaiah 61:1
Luke 3:11
Proverbs 21:26

There are many more verses like these and are from the old and new testament. These verses come from the heart not tithing to a denominational church or charity. Unfortunately, love today has practically evaporated from this world.
---Steveng on 1/8/18


Preach the gospel!
Most every Christian agrees this is what the church is supposed to do. Christians should know the word gospel means good news or glad tidings.
The question nobody asks should be, what is the good news?, or which gospel? Hardly anyone asks this. Many try to preach the gospel without knowledge of what it is.
If you have learned to rightly divide the scriptures, you have heard of the gospel of the grace of God and how it differs from the gospel of the kingdom. One was prophesied and the other kept secret since the world began a mystery (Mark 1:14-15, Rom 16:25).
---michael_e on 1/8/18


DAVID. I hope you noticed my post was mistakenly addressed to Kathr when it was meant for you.

AXE. Again you avoid dealing with my point. I'm well aware of your claim being specific to Matt 25, James 2.

BUT, you constantly avoid dealing with my critique of your claim that it's not necessary to believe on JC based on your flawed understanding of Matt 25, James 2.

And when you suggested gospel seems to contradict Matt 25, James 2, you offered no explanation how they do not contradict, yet claimed to have such understanding as to argue against the scriptures I gave explaining the SPIRITUAL descriptors in Matt 25, James 2.

Like I keep saying, your constant deflection and obfuscation is dragging out this debate.
---Haz27 on 1/8/18


KATHR. I never said works is not involved. If you read my posts you would have seen this.

Jesus said our works are to believe on him, John 6:28,29.

As for John 14:21, the commandments of Jesus are (1John 3:23):
1: Believe on Jesus, John 3:16
2: Love others, John 13:34

As for James 2, the works showing our faith is believing on Jesus, which is seen in those who preach the gospel to the lost who are the spiritually naked (lacking robes of righteousness, Isa 61:10), and feeding spiritually hungry (who lack Jesus our spiritual food, 1Cor 10:3,4).

When you receive JC then you will want to share gospel with the lost (the spiritually needy), and you would not heartlessly withhold such a great salvation from them.
---Haz27 on 1/8/18


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Salvation is the result of Grace, received by Faith through Works.
---David on 1/8/18


David there is NO such verse in scripture. You just made that up.
David, scripture states we are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH, not of works lest any man should boast.

No man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, is clearly taught in scripture. And SALVATION IS BEING JUSTIFIED.

We are justified by His Blood and SAVED BY HIS LIFE. It's all Jesus Works.
---kathr4453 on 1/8/18


Haz27:

In The selection criterion between sheep and goats here is SOLELY based on deeds, ...

you obviously missed the here. I was SPECIFICALLY talking about that SINGLE passage in Matthew 25.

Also, in In Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41... I was SPECIFICALLY talking about the context of those TWO passages. Nowhere did I say that those rendered all other passages in the Bible invalid.

Because of your misunderstanding, I have clarified this repeatedly, yet you ignore the clarifications and CONSTANTLY condemn me.

Romans 8:1 says "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus", but you don't seem to have gotten that memo.
---StrongAxe on 1/8/18


Haz
Because of a few verses from Pauls epistles, many folks are confused about Grace, Faith and Works. All three are part of the Salvation Equation. Most folks know about Grace and Faith, but their doctrines stay far away from the Bibles teaching that both come through Works.

How can Works, Faith and Grace be taught as one? According to the foundation set by Jesus Christ, on how we recieve Gods Grace, in (John 14:21), Grace is received by Works.

And in (James 2), We see Faith without Works is worthless. Now if we are saved by Grace through Faith, and Faith without Works is worthless, how can you believe Works is not part of the Salvation Equation?

Salvation is the result of Grace, received by Faith through Works.
---David on 1/8/18


AXE. Seems you now want to distance yourself from your own claims.

Here's 2 quotes below from topic Without law no sin.

The selection criterion between sheep and goats here is SOLELY based on deeds, NOT on faith. It's also clear these people are confused because they don't know why they are being rewarded. If they were all Christians, don't you think they would all KNOW and not need to ask?
---StrongAxe on 12/20/17

In Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41, Jesus says anyone who gives a cup of water will have his reward - no fine print about "but only if he's a believer"
. StrongAxe on 12/22/17

NOTE how you clearly suggest in both quotes that it's not necessary to be a Christian (i.e believe on JC).
---Haz27 on 1/8/18


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After reading Stevengs comment on another blog, it appears many are confused when they see the word WORKS.

There is works of the LAW, and there is WORKS OF FAITH...two entirely different things as far away from each other as the east is from the west.

Please be mindful when reading scripture you KNOW and understand the difference.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
---kathr4453 on 1/8/18


Matthew vs Galatians...that's the problem, and was a problem when Paul wrote Galatians, when other we're bringing in ANOTHER GOSPEL, that is..the Gospel OF THE KINGDOM, which is what Matthew is all about....WORKS. Kingdom LAW, where Gentiles are in subjection to Jews where even those who came in to BOTHER the Galatians seemed to also believe Gentiles needed to follow the LAW of the Jews, including circumcision. Please read Galatians and what Paul says about these misled Jews who did believe in Jesus BUT believed in the WRONG GOSPEL...PAUL,CALLS ANOTHER GOSPEL. AND WHAT does he say about those who bring this OTHER Gospel and mixes it with the Gospel of the Grace of God? NOT GOOD?
---kathr4453 on 1/7/18


Haz27:

You wrote: Not only did you say salvation is SOLELY based on works, NOT faith,

Either prove it, or withdraw your accusation. Show me EXACTLY which post - which date and which blog - where I said that!

James 2 itself perfectly reconciles Matthew 25 (works) and John 3:16 (faith).

It's such argument as this that unnecessarily draws out debates. If you don't understand a topic then it's better to say so or remain silent about it.

Exactly. It is YOU who don't understand it, so why don't YOU remain silent about it?
---StrongAxe on 1/7/18


AXE. As you can see, your obfuscation and deflection does not help you.

Not only did you say salvation is SOLELY based on works, NOT faith, in your reading of Matt 25, James 2, but you ALSO suggested Matt 25, James 2 contradict the gospel and then failed to offer any reasoning on why they do not contradict each other.

In spite of your inability to explain how Matt 25, James 2 do not contradict the gospel, you were adamant you had such understanding as to reject scriptures I offered explaining the spiritual descriptors in Matt 25, James 2.

It's such argument as this that unnecessarily draws out debates. If you don't understand a topic then it's better to say so or remain silent about it.



---Haz27 on 1/7/18


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Haz27:

You wrote: AXE. If you truly now regret saying that salvation is based SOLELY on works, NOT faith, then its better to do so directly.

This is not a matter of regret. It is a matter of your wilful misunderstanding of what I said, even after many clarifications. I never said "salvation is solely by works". I said "Matthew 25 mentions only works and not faith". These are VERY DIFFERENT things. I also never said Matthew 25 was the sole guide for our faith and other scriptures like John 3:16 and James 2 are to be ignored.

I am not obfuscating. I am stating clearly what I believe, yet you continue to ignore this and take one thing I once said out of context, despite repeated clarifications.
---StrongAxe on 1/7/18


The gospel is simply this:

the soon-to-come Kingdom of God...

Matthew 4:23
Matthew 9:35
Matthew 24:14
Mark 1:14

...and how to get there.
---Steveng on 1/6/18


AXE. If you truly now regret saying that salvation is based SOLELY on works, NOT faith, then its better to do so directly.

Your trademark reliance on obfuscation and deflection has brought our debate to where it is now. When you first offered your SOLELY works, and NOT faith argument, I determined it appropriate to flush you out from behind your usual obfuscation and deflection to get you to clearly reveal your position.

Sadly we still have further to go as you claimed that Matt 25, James 2, contradict salvation by faith, John 3.16.
---Haz27 on 1/6/18


The simplest way to explain the good news today is,
1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand, 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
---michael_e on 1/6/18


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Jesus died on the cross for our sins. And Jesus rose from the dead on the third day. And now Jesus is Lord of all.

We have been reconciled to God by the death of Jesus on the cross. And now > "we shall be saved by His life," our Apostle Paul says in Romans 5:10. He does not say we already have been saved, but "we shall be saved by His life."

So, even though we have trusted in Jesus so we have gotten started in our salvation, "we shall be saved by His life." I think this means the life of His love in us making us more and more like Jesus > Romans 5:5, 1 John 4:17.

And works in this love can exercise our character to become stronger in how Jesus is.
---Bill on 1/6/18


//What does scripture say the gospel is?//
Johns gospel was the gospel of the name of Jesus. The gospel missing in John is the gospel given to the Church today for eternal life.
The gospel of his name has been superseded by the gospel of the grace of God.
This gospel includes the good news of the Lords death, burial, and resurrection for salvation, which Paul calls the preaching of the cross (1 Cor 1:18).
How could the cross be good news? The answer is in the revelation of the mystery of Jesus Christ (1 Cor 2:7-8, Rom 16:25).
The mystery of Christ is that he is not only the Messiah to Israel, but is the Saviour to all, Jew and Gentile, without Israels kingdom, Israels law, and without Israels faith (Rom 11:32).
---michael_e on 1/6/18


Salvation is by grace alone. Good works are the evidence of that grace.


---jerry6593 on 1/6/18


Haz27:

You wrote: If you read the posts of Axe properly you would see that Axe argues that salvation is based SOLELY on works, NOT faith, for some people even though they deny Jesus is the Christ who died for sin.

I have REPEATEDLY said that I do NOT believe this, yet you keep repeating this LIE despite my multiple clarifications. I must conclude from this that by "properly" you mean "using a biased filter that only listens to what I believe and either ignores everything else, or re-interprets it to mean whatever I want it to mean".

This makes perfect sense now, because it seems like you read what other people say, world news, the Bible, and everything else through exactly the same filter.
---StrongAxe on 1/6/18


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MONK. If you read the posts of Axe properly you would see that Axe argues that salvation is based SOLELY on works, NOT faith, for some people even though they deny Jesus is the Christ who died for sin.

This is due to his misunderstanding of Matt 25, James 2, which he claims CONTRADICTS THE GOSPEL. But he is unable to reconcile this contradiction he perceives, and he insists that his doctrine is sound.

AXE, John 14:6 says Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.
This too contradicts your false gospel.

Still waiting for you to reconcile these contradictions your false doctrine has with God's gospel.
---Haz27 on 12/29/17


Haz is saying that he believes someone (without saying who--let's call him SA) that posts on this board believes that works=grace, when this same SA has told Haz repeatedly that SA believes in faith + works =salvation.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/29/17


Haz27:

I never said salvation is always SOLELY based on works, only that some scriptures (like Matthew 25, 1 Peter 1:17, Revelation 20:12-13) only mention works and don't mention faith.

As I have said SEVERAL TIMES, SOME scriptures speak only of salvation by faith, SOME only by works, and SOME by both. One cannot focus solely on one and ignore the others. This is how heresies grow, when someone takes one scripture out of context and builds a doctrine on it, and ignores other scriptures that say other things.

There is a story of a several blind men describing an elephant. All tell different stories (rope, tree, snake), and all are correct, but one only understands what an elephant is by taking all the stories together.
---StrongAxe on 12/29/17


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