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Scriptures Of The Early Church

What were the early Christians using as Bibles during the first one hundred years when there was not any new testament? What scriptures were Jesus and the apostles using to teach others?

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Now to be CHOSEN "IN HIM" is an altogether different issue. Firstly we know NO-ONE was IN HIM before the foundation of the world. So the IN HIM here is what we need to focus on. No scripture says we were chosen before the foundation of the world. It says we were CHOSEN TO BE IN HIM, something planned before the foundation of the world.

The IN HIM is referring to the CHURCH, and those who receive Jesus Christ during THIS dispensation to be His Bride. The Church again is the Fathers GIFT to the SON for His sacrifice, to be Joint heirs with Christ ...Something never promised to earthly Israel.

If you don't separate the CHURCH from ISRAEL you will NEVER get it, and unfortunately misapply these truths.
---kathr4453 on 2/5/18


Well John, like I said, the Only CHOSEN ONE before the foundation of the world is Jesus Christ.

And John 6 is talking about ( at that time ) only those in Israel....as the Gospel according to the Mystery was not revealed yet, and that included Gentiles.

Many came to Jesus, and walked away of their own free will in John 6, because they said...IT WAS TO HARD. just like those who REFUSED TO CROSS THE JORDAN INTO THE PROMISE LAND.

So the scriptures the Apostles used to teach others.....is right there in Joshua....FREE WILL, also,showing NO ONE was individually picked to cross. And no supposed regeneration took place either.
---kathr4453 on 2/5/18


david ask, "If God chooses who he will save before we are born, how does someone come to believe in Jesus Christ, before they are born?"

I like your question my friend...

Here is how the Lord Jesus answers your question:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." Jn 6:44

David, you see sir, all those who are of the elect are drawn by the Father to place their faith in Christ and repent...
---john9346 on 2/4/18


Kathr states, "None of this in John 17 states anything about the believers before the foundation of the world...ONLY JESUS PRAYING to be Glorified AGAIN the way HE WAS before the foundation of the world."

False, the Lord Jesus stated repeatedly the ones who the Father "Gave, gave." it was a work according to vs 1-5 that had all ready been completed.

Also, Kathr is in "Direct Contradiction." of Scripture because Jesus stated, "All Flesh." "The world." not just Jews and in Jn 17 ethnicity no where is a prerequisite by the Lord Jesus to be his disciple...
---john9346 on 2/4/18


To recap:

1. Kathr stated no one has been chosen before the foundation of the world, but Paul contradicts her in Eph 1:4-5.

2. Mark also stated that God didn't choose anyone before the foundation of the worl, but again, Paul contradicts him in Eph 1:4-5.

3. Kathr states that Jn 17 is only for Jews, but the Lord Jesus contradicts her in vs2-9 when stating "AllFlesh." "World."
---john9346 on 2/4/18




Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

If it were by ELECTION, it would read, "but the word did not profit them because they were NOT predestined to believe". It doesn't . Hebrews 4 is refering to JOSHUA CH 1-3 ..entering the PROMISE the author equates with THE GOSPEL. The 3 day crossing of the Jordan is equivalent to our identification of being Crucified with Christ....Jesus ( Joshua) not MOSES, goes before. Those who did not enter DIED IN THEIR SIN IN THE WILDERNESS. Scripture shows salvation means ENTERING HIS REST, can only be done by ACTIVELY crossing the Jordan. Not all the ELECT crossed over.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/18


before we are born, how does someone come to believe in Jesus Christ, before they are born?
---David on 2/3/18

David excellent question. Maybe I can address John's concerns here too. John 17 there are two parts, Those the Father Gave Jesus ( which are the Jews, who belong to the Father who were the Apostles= Jews only) and VS 20, and all those who,believe on Jesus THROUGH THEIR WORD. ..so all those who believe on Jesus through the testimony of the Apostles who WITNESSED Jesus resurrection was preached to both Jew and Gentile.

None of this in John 17 states anything about the believers before the foundation of the world...ONLY JESUS PRAYING to be Glorified AGAIN the way HE WAS before the foundation of the world.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/18


Kathr said, "Don't be so quick to find fault when there is none..."

I'm not finding fault i'm challenging your claim in light of Scripture as well as Jn 17 is not stating that God chose only Jews because Jesus stated, "World." and as you admit "All Flesh." The lanugage of Jn 17 also speaks of a Future Election.

Like I told Mark let the authors tell you what they meant not you tell them what they meant...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


Kathr states, "however....personally picked individuals WHO entered ???? NO NO NO. Hebrews."
Readers,

Pay attention to Kathr Defiant and clear denial of Paul inspired of the Holy Spirit's Words, "
Eph 1:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

Paul states that God chose certain persons (before the foundations of the world) Kathr is telling Paul that God didn't do this. Kathr is calling Paul a "Liar."
---john9346 on 2/3/18


Kathr:

First, you don't understand Calvinism, if you did you would understand that Rom 16:24 is the gospel and is exactly what Calvinism represents as the gospel:

Next, Rom 16:24-27 is a benediction,


If you understood Calvinism then you would know that vs 24 sums up Calvinism, "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."

Kathr, tell the readers here what is the definition of grace??
---john9346 on 2/3/18




John
I would like to hear a little more, but I have one question that has always puzzled me.

Most folks, including myself, think God chooses among those who believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, as to who he will save. Predestination teaches God makes this choice before we were ever born.

If God chooses who he will save before we are born, how does someone come to believe in Jesus Christ, before they are born?
---David on 2/3/18


John if you were paying attention and real ALL of what I said, instead of glimpsing it with the motive to tear down....then you will see. ALL FLESH...ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH.... ALL NATIONS. Unlike Travis definition of that...it means both Jew and Gentile.

You will also notice that only Jews were chosen out of Israel, not any Gentiles to be the 12 APOSTLES. Now I know you agree with that..as your other posts have stated you believe this.

Don't be so quick to find fault when there is none...


Also IF it were as you say, Jesus 12 Apostles Would be Jew and Gentile....I wonder why NOT????? I know...do you?
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


Kathr states, "This verse is not hard to understand.......Those the Father gave to Jesus while on earth were in fact from Israel..

But the Lord jesus contradicts you listen closely:

"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."

Note, "All Flesh." not justJews/Israel."

Note, "to as many as thou hast given him."

Again, not just Jews/Israel."

If Kathr's Position is biblical here then only Israel/Jews were save and can be save today...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


To understand Ephesians, it's helps to grasp The book of Joshua. We could say the promised land was also promised before the foundation of the world, and the Jews were the elect who inherited that promise. God KNOWS all from beginning to end...however....personally picked individuals WHO entered ???? NO NO NO. Hebrews 3-4 show only those who entered BY FAITH, not election although they were the ELECT and ALL were given the promise.

So it is with Ephesians 1:1-5.... THE CHURCH... A BRIDE, was determined before the Foundation of the world, that in THIS dispensation ANYONE who put their FAITH in Jesus Christ can ENTER IN this HEAVENLY LAND.
Adam is said to be a son of God YES, but not a SON THROUGH JESUS CHRIST...
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


So John, you can brag all you want that you are the ELECT, but as we see it did Israel NO GOOD. Their election did not guarantee the Promise Land as no one just WOKE UP in the Land, anymore than you just woke up one day CLAIMING to be regenerated.

And surely ELECT Israel as a whole was not automatically guaranteed eternal life....Romans 10 will explain.

Making boastful claims is what Israel actually did missing the mark altogether. If they were TRULY Abrahams spiritual seed, they would have KNOWN who Jesus was. Their ELECT STATUS blinded them to truth. Just like John ....
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


This is NOT Calvinism.

Romans 16:24-27

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

*****(Calvinism makes no such doctrinal claim) *****

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
---kath4453 on 2/3/18


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I just LOVE how Calvinists CHERRY PICK only the verses they like.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word,

This verse is not hard to understand.......Those the Father gave to Jesus while on earth were in fact from Israel..JEWS who were ALREADY the Fathers.( these alone) These were His Apostles, Disciples...and they were told to go INTO ALL NATIONS AND PREACH THE GOSPEL ...this would be The Gospel according to the Mystery...Romans 16:24-27, FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH TO ALL NATIONS. And this would be The and them ALSO that believe on me THROUGH THEIR WORD. This is why faith comes by HEARING the Word of God..not false doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


CULTS have millions in bondage. They Love to TICKLED ears in some form or fashion. Many LOVE the idea of belonging to some SECRET SOCIETY: Calvinism, JW, Scientology, Mormonism etc offer this. To be the Elect...or the 144,000, or achieving levels raising you high and higher to the SECRET door or ultimate secret.... BUT non bring FAITH that ONLY comes by the WORD OF GOD.

John is here to recruit more CALVINISTS, not Christians. And look who's ears got tickled....a JW who LOVES the Calvinists "Predestination secret society thing".

The Gospel is NOT getting people INTERESTED in Christianity by some " predestination worm on a hook to fish with" That it's NOT the Gospel. THAT is a CULT.
---kathr4453 on 2/3/18


mark_eaton ask, "Why do you make this SO complicated?"

Mr. Eaton, you must allow Luke inspired of the Holy Spirit to tell you what he meant by the parable not, "You." tell Luke what you want him to have meant by the parable...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


mark_eaton states, "God did not choose anyone before the foundation of the world. God chose EVERYONE before the foundation of the world to be adopted as sons and daughters."

But Paul inspired of the Holy Spirit in Eph 1:4-5 contradicts you sir listen closely:



4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Mr. Eaton, if what you state is true then no one would be in hell today...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


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Mark_eaton,

Question,

The parable you raised is it "Prescriptive." or "Descriptive?"

Remember, parables are nothing but stories examples meant to convey a truth or a principle. They're not literal my friend...
---john9346 on 2/3/18


Calvinism has been the teaching of the church for 2000 years...
---john9346 on 2/2/18


Let's see, Calvinism, also known as "REFORMED" THEOLOGY ..or a form of Protestantism, means to PROTEST CATHOLICISM John actually believes has been around for 2000 years. This kind of statement is so pathetic i have no words for you John. I know YOU believe that is true.

The Gospel according to the MYSTERY Romans 16:24-27 (NOT Calvinism) is the ONLY TRUE Gospel That HAS been around 2000 years. It's doctrine is as far as the east is from the west from Calvinism.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


Revelation 17:8 - The beast that thou sawest was, and is not, shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder: whose names were not written in the Book of Life From the Foundation of the World, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

John 17:9 - I pray for them: I pray not for the world, But for them which thou hast given me: For they are thine.

John 17:10 - And all mine are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them.
---RichardC on 2/2/18


this parable is not teaching that the son chose to become the Father's Son, the son had always been...
---john9346 on 2/1/18

Why do you make this SO complicated?

The Father's plan has always been to redeem the entire world from the blindness and misery caused by sin. John 3:16-17, 2 Pet. 3:9, 1 Cor 15:22, 1 Tim 2:4

I believe that all people are sons and daughters of God. I know most do not agree because of Scriptures like John 1:12. Just look at The Father's heart in the parables of the Lost Sheep, the Lost Coin and the Prodigal Son.

God did not choose anyone before the foundation of the world. God chose EVERYONE before the foundation of the world to be adopted as sons and daughters.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/2/18


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Kathr states, "
The ONLY SON that has ALWAYS BEEN is Jesus Christ. This is where this false teaching begins. Calvinism like Mormonism, yes Mormonism actually began out of this false doctrine of Calvinism that the existed before the foundation of the world."
False, Mormonism came out of the Church of Christ. They actually believe like you that sinners can either choose or reject Christ.

Calvinism has always been first the Scriptures, then the Church Fathers, the councils etc...

Calvinism has been the teaching of the church for 2000 years...

BTW, Kathr Preesistence in Mormonism is not "Predestination." ma'am...
---john9346 on 2/2/18


Kathr,

pay attention to what I wrote to Mark about the parable and then go read it and then we can engage in a mature and honest dialog.

What I said to Mark is very, "Self Explainatory."
---john9346 on 2/2/18


The parable of the Prodigal Son is 1 descriptive of repentance of the elect. Remember, the son never stopped being the Father's Son although he fell in to sin, this parable is not teaching that the son chose to become the Father's Son the son had always been...
---john9346 on 2/1/18

The ONLY SON that has ALWAYS BEEN is Jesus Christ. This is where this false teaching begins. Calvinism like Mormonism, yes Mormonism actually began out of this false doctrine of Calvinism that the existed before the foundation of the world.

Yet John 1:12 states that TO AS MANY AS RECEIVE HIM, to them gave he the power TO BECOME the sons of God.

NO ONE RECEIVED HIM before the foundation of the world, becoming sons. YIKES!
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


The bible alone declares it truthfulness evidentailly and factualness...---john9346 on 1/31/18

John
I dont deny the Bible is the word of God, and its easily my favorite book to read. But I believe a person must first believe in God, before they will except its the word of God.

Predestination....You do have some verses that are hard to ignore. Lets Take this discussion up at another time, after I read your side with an open mind. Thats not easy to do...but Ill try.
---David on 2/2/18


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The parable of the Prodigal Son is 1 descriptive of repentance of the elect. Remember, the son never stopped being the Father's Son although he fell in to sin, this parable is not teaching that the son chose to become the Father's Son the son had always been...
---john9346 on 2/1/18

FIRSTLY: no scripture teaches that those IN CHRIST die when they sin and then come back to life when they repent. Those in Christ are not DEAD TO GOD WHEN THEY SIN, and then come alive when they repent, and then die when they sin, and come alive when they repent. Just MORE "FAKE GOSPEL" john is trying a to push down your throat. Hebrews 6:4-6 EXPOSE THIS FILTHY LIE OF JOHN'S.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


John, i realize your attack on me is because I expose all your false doctrine WITH BACK UP SCRIPTURES, that you go on some demonic lying name calling attack. Sounds like TRUMP is ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR IDOLS....

I forgive you, however, it's hard to forgive your blatant false teachings and misleading folks here.

No one is automatically born into any family except a human sinful family.

If the parable represents the Father as being GOD, who are the two sons? Jesus and who John? If the Father represent a HUMAN father, no HUMANS are elect from birth because their human father was elect. Now ELECTION OF A NATION might work that way, but not salvation. And no NATION EVER was given cart blanc salvation ....not even Israel.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


John

When your losing a debate I see you cant help the Ad Hominems lol.

I'm not even going to defend myself against your lies. It's really sad someone here who wants to give the impression your all that would stoop so low....another sign you are NOT filled or controlled or indwelt with the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit does not produce ROTTEN FRUIT that stinks on the vine.

You may want to revisit Galatians 5-22-25 John. Even those verses EXPOSE you as a fraud.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/18


Romans 3:10 - As it is written, there are none righteous, No Not One,

Romans 3:11 - There is none that understandeth, There is None that seeketh after God.

Romans 12:3 - For I say Though the Grace given unto me, To every man among you. Not to think of himself more highly then he ought to think: But to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the Measure of Faith.

( Question : Has God given Faith to All Men 0r God Elect and Call ? )
---RichardC on 2/1/18


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Mark_eaton said, "I don't think Jesus taught this."

Mr. eaton, notice you said you don't think Jesus taught this and then you cited Jn 6:44, but did you read before vs 44 what the Lord Jesus stated,


Jn 6:

"37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
---john9346 on 2/1/18


Mark_eaton:

The parable of the Prodigal Son is 1 descriptive of repentance of the elect. Remember, the son never stopped being the Father's Son although he fell in to sin, this parable is not teaching that the son chose to become the Father's Son the son had always been...
---john9346 on 2/1/18


Kathr states, "The problem with John's take on predestination and the Jacob Esau thingy, is THERE'S NO PREDESTINATION HERE FOR SALVATION."

False, Paul starts at Rom 8:29-30 Paul then continues on discussing in Rom 9...

Kathr, you must learn to read Scripture in context... something I notice you don't do since the moement I started dialogging with you... your actually twiesting and confusing the people

BTW, you mentioned slavery but on past blogs you had no problem with the slavery of blacks and you are in support of abortion...
hypocrisy...
---john9346 on 2/1/18


Kathr states, "The CHURCH was a Covenant made between the TRINITY before the foundation of the world.( where YOU did not exist ....but the planning of the CHURCH did)"

First, now you believe in the trinity...

Next, Paul inspired of the Holy Spirit contradicts you listen:

Eph 1:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
---john9346 on 2/1/18


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I wonder now, seeing Calvinism as a spinoff of Catholicism is where the idea of slavery came in and justified, by using how Esau was to serve Jacob, and how they both believe they are modern day Spiritual Israel. Hummm. All those years of OPPRESSION and lording it over the lost and those who did not submit to the RCC. Is it possible they used the Jacob Esau thingy to justify this servitude mentality. Just wondering... Might be interesting to go back and research. Spain, a major player in slavery too was CATHOLIC. Calvinists with their superiority complex also murdered and controlled others. Exactly WHERE DID this idea come from. Certainly NOT the Gospel of LIBERTY AND FREEDOM that came only through and taught ISAAC.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/18


Scripture teach that Sinners are (Spiritually Dead Persons) if your dead you cant choose...
---john9346 on 1/31/18

I don't think Jesus taught this.

Jesus told us about The Fathers heart in the parable of the Prodigal Son. In the parable, in Luke 15:17, Jesus uses the phrase "and when he came to his senses" and later in Luke 15:32 Jesus uses the sentence "for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found".

It seemed that Jesus was indicating that the son was able to decide for himself even though he was "dead" and "lost".

Do you also forget Jesus telling us that "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him"?
---Mark_Eaton on 2/1/18


God never threw Rebecca and Esau out....Gal 4: 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh, but he of the freewoman was by promise. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/18


Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

The problem with John's take on predestination and the Jacob Esau thingy, is THERE'S NO PREDESTINATION HERE FOR SALVATION. God chose Jacob to inherit the promises given to Abraham concerning the LAND, and head the family. Esau was to SERVE his brother. No where in all of scripture does Paul teach the LOST are here to SERVE the saved elect?

John, Jacob does not represent the Church...ISAAC DOES....He's the child of PROMISE...

Two entirely different covenant promises. Get your facts right John before MISLEADING PEOPLE you will one day be accountable for.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/18


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david ask, "for no matter who WE believe the source, by itself, its not evidence of anything. Buddhists and Muslims also have books, if they are evidence of their Gods, why didnt you goin them?"

First, the bible is the "Correct." on so many leves if you read the Koran, Vedas, etc. they proove how they aren't to be taken serious... The bible alone declares it truthfulness evidentailly and factualness...
---john9346 on 1/31/18


david,

first, thanks sir I always seek to allow the author of a verse of Scripture to speak for themselves...

"
If a man must be born again, to see the kingdom of God, these verses refer to the gestation of time after you come from the womb of your mother...but before being born of God."
Ok,

Paul addressed your conclusion this way,

"For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that Gods purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls," Rom 9:11
---john9346 on 1/31/18


mark_eaton states, "But not Predestination in the Calvinist way."

Mr. eaton, Scripture speaks of only one predestination... not 2

Scripture teach that Sinners hate God and do not love him for sinners are (Spiritually Dead Persons) if your dead you cant choose.

If I put a dead man in front of you would you ask him to choose between lunch and dinner??
---john9346 on 1/31/18


kathr states, "The whole bible does NOT speak about predestination ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE."

Not true, was not Israel/Jews chosen and shows God working in, through, and by them from Gen-Rev??

Paul inspired of the Holy Spirit perfectly explains that Rom 8:29-30 are those whom God Sovereignly elected unto salvation...

I believe Paul was able to clarify his meaning after all Paul wrote it...
---john9346 on 1/31/18


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The whole bible does NOT speak about predestination ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE. WE! That is WE the Body of Christ, the CHURCH, Christ in you, Kept hidden, but NOW REVEALED Colossians 1:24-27 was Predestined to be conformed to His Image. And what was PREDESTINED was included in the EVERLASTING COVENANT Hebrews 13:20-21, not only to DO HIS WILL, which is Philippians 2-3 and just EXACTLY HOW being conformed to His Image is something only the Body of Christ can be.

It has NOTHING to do with salvation, BUT IT HAS ALL TO DO WITH SANCTIFICATION AND GLORIFICATION. We don't know what we shall be but we know We will be like Him.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/18


The entire bible proclaims the "Blessed Doctrine of Predestination."
---john9346 on 1/30/18

But not Predestination in the Calvinist way.

I would say the Bible speaks more of Predestination in the Universalist way. Specifically, Universal Redemption, not Universal Salvation.

We have all been destined for adoption by God. God has put away death and sin once for all. Yet, God is kind and does not force themselves on anyone.

A relationship with God has to be a two-way street. You must want it, they already have proven they do.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/31/18


First, I knew that question would be of a challenge to you, but I accept your answer ---john9346 on 1/30/18

John
Not sure why you think your question was such a challenge, for no matter who WE believe the source, by itself, its not evidence of anything. Buddhists and Muslims also have books, if they are evidence of their Gods, why didnt you goin them?

Now as to the verses you gave, which do support predestination, this is how I read (Romans 9).

If a man must be born again, to see the kingdom of God, these verses refer to the gestation of time after you come from the womb of your mother...but before being born of God.

But I can see why you read it as you do.
---David on 1/31/18


David,

First, I knew that question would be of a challenge to you, but I accept your answer that is (IDK)

David ask, "The church began before Paul wrote his epistles, so this means no one was able to teach from them. What was their source,"

Well, your assuming an outcome before understanding the process the writings of Paul and the other apostle were in circulation as early as about 40 AD. Remember, the OT Scriptures were also available.
---john9346 on 1/30/18


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David ask, "where did the Lords twelve apostles teach predestination?"

Jn 6:37-45, 64-65, 17:1-9, Rom 8:29-30, Eph 1:4-13, Acts 13:48, etc...

The entire bible proclaims the "Blessed Doctrine of Predestination."

Sir, you ask me this all the time so hopefully there can be interaction on these verses of Scripture this time...
---john9346 on 1/30/18


Before Paul was an apostle (Saul, the chief Pharisee), Jesus's disciples were NOT called "Christians", they were MEMBERS OF (belonged to) THE WAY.
Jhn 14:6

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father, but by me.

Act 9:2

and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound

Act 24:22 But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way,
---faithforfaith on 1/30/18


Can you tell me, who is the source of the bible?
---john9346 on 1/29/18


John
Ive answered many of your questions, now will you answer one for me?

The church began before Paul wrote his epistles, so this means no one was able to teach from them. What was their source, and where did the Lords twelve apostles teach predestination?
---David on 1/30/18


david states, "The Bible is a good source of confirming your information about God, but by itself, it doesnt prove anything."

Can you tell me, who is the source of the bible?
---john9346 on 1/29/18


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Mark_eaton:

Not sure if your aware but Steveng doesn't believe that Jesus is God he denies the "Bless Trinity."

From his writings he seems to be "Unitarian."

Its obvious he doesn't believe in "Sola Scriptura."
---john9346 on 1/29/18


God word is nothing new. It was since the beginning, is, and ever shall be.
---Steveng on 1/28/18

I am starting to wonder about your theology.

Jesus is God's Word. Read the pro-log to John's gospel, which is considered by some to be the most significant passage in the ENTIRE Bible.

Jesus is the Word, and the Word was God and Word is God. Jesus created all things and to as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become Sons of God.

What are you trying to say to me? Are you accusing me of a faith different than what has been passed down to us? Do you even know the ancient faith? Try reading Irenaeus or Athanasius. You will see what the ancient faith is.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/29/18


So if I want to know the truth I should not go to the bible I should seek experience?---john9346 on 1/28/18

The Bible is a good source of confirming your information about God, but by itself, it doesnt prove anything. If it did, everyone would believe in God after reading it. Here on CN, you have believers throwing verses at one another, and yet does anyone change their mind?

I read in a book that applying a thin paste to a sprained ankle, made out of cayenne Pepper and water, will heal the ankle in less than an hour. Sounds silly, but how will I know if this is true, unless I try it on my sprained ankle?

This is why Jesus called folks, Wise, who do what he tells them to do. The experience will reveal the Truth.
---David on 1/29/18


david states, "Experience is the standard of the Holy Spirit."

so if I want to know the truth I should not go to the bible I should seek experience?
---john9346 on 1/28/18


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Mark_Eaton: "The truth..., it is a who. Jesus is the Truth. Jesus is the Word."

Most people, including christians, misunderstand the bible because of semantics. Most use today's knowledge to understand the meaning of what was written 2,000 years ago.

Mark_Eaton: "[Jesus] taught as no one ever taught before... was totally new. His commandments were also new..."

God word is nothing new. It was since the beginning, is, and ever shall be.


Mark_Eaton: "...and His yoke is indeed easy..."

Why do today's christians vainly think that they are any different than all the christians of all history?

Why do today's christians make living a christian lifestyle so complicated.
---Steveng on 1/28/18


Yup, thats me John. Just making sure. Now as to your question.

What is the standard the Holy Spirit uses to teach anyone??
---john9346 on 1/25/18


Experience is the standard of the Holy Spirit. Experience which comes through your relationship with God. I understand the Bible because of my experience with God. It was due to my experience with God that I came to understand the Bible. Without the teaching of the Holy Spirit, there would be no experience, just the Bible.

A book, without Gods Holy Spirit, is not much of an education.
---David on 1/28/18


Here is another David so will you now answer my question:

see below


The Holy Spirt can makes it a real easy life to live, a life everyone seeks, but very...very few ever find. And it's because when folks seek God, they seek him through mans doctrines, and not through Gods Holy Spirit.
---David on 5/21/16
"Help Depress Son." blog
---john9346 on 1/27/18


David,

Here is what youstated sir and there are more:


John
The Law of Christ, is that Law God puts into your mind and writes on your heart. God has never put the laws you mention, into my mind, but he has made me feel guilty of a few of the commandments Christ mentioned in (Matthew 19: 18 & 19). Those commandments that God considers acts of Evil.

I wish I could get you to believe that you're a sinner, but that's not my job, it's the job of Gods Holy Spirit. If you don't have guilt, maybe you haven't received this gift. Just a thought my friend.
---David on 5/16/17
"Law that Christ Fulfilled." blog


---john9346 on 1/27/18


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If I understand your post correctly, this is quite a boast. That you know what causes sin. Wow, please enlighten us.---Mark_Eaton on 1/26/18

(Matthew 15:19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Is the Lord was boasting too?


Sir, you are the right David and I will provide you the quotations and the postings.---john9346 on 1/26/18

That may prove difficult and require a lot of research, but I hope whatever you find will be worth your efforts.
---David on 1/27/18


The freedom comes, when that which causes sin, dies in you.
---David on 1/26/18

If I understand your post correctly, this is quite a boast. That you know what causes sin. Wow, please enlighten us.

My understanding is sin is a disease, a blindness, to the truth, Gods truth. The truth that God loves us, wants us, and wants to be involved in our lives. That God has made a way to break thru our darkness and reconnect to God's life and light.

This blindness is caused by the whisper of Evil, and it turns our mind to see God as distant and judging. It turns us to our own Salvation strategies, our own idols, and causes a river of toxic waste in the people around us.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/26/18


John
I believe your at a disadvantage here, because their are two Davids and sometimes three. I believe you have the wrong David. But still, feel free to challenge me.
---David on 1/26/18

Sir, you are the right David and I will provide you the quotations and the postings.


---john9346 on 1/26/18


You will certainly know one day what freedom you could have had.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/25/18


Mark
A belief which allows you immunity, from the penalty of sin, is not the freedom you should be seeking. The freedom comes, when that which causes sin, dies in you.

Also, i'm wondering what is your standard for judging right and wrong doctrine because in past conversation when I have challenged you you have said what the Holy Spirit has taught you---john9346 on 1/25/18

John
I believe your at a disadvantage here, because their are two Davids and sometimes three. I believe you have the wrong David. But still, feel free to challenge me.
---David on 1/26/18


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True we are free to not have to live in sin.

I see many times statements are made with no proof from the Bible.

I also see accusation made. But we should never make accusations if we at properly debating on the basis we are to love each other.

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/25/18


isnt the rarity of your correspondence due to your inability to support your position using the Bible, as I do?
---David on 1/25/18

I have no issues defending my beliefs. I choose my battles. If you choose to live in bondage, so be it. You will certainly know one day what freedom you could have had.

Its not me who says this, but Jesus:

John 8:31-32 "So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Free from what? Bondage to sin. Jesus continues in the passage to tell us he who continually sins in a slave to sin. But whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/25/18


david states, "John
The reference was to the false doctrines folks follow. It doesn't do any good to call an individual doctrine false, if you cant show it to be false. And you cant show it to be false, when folks are blind to the Truth."

Actually, its not up to me nor you to show or tell anybody there doctrine is false, only the Scriptures that are, "Theopneustos." can do this...

Also, i'm wondering what is your standard for judging right and wrong doctrine because in past conversation when I have challenged you you have said what the Holy Spirit has taught you??

What is the standard the Holy Spirit uses to teach anyone??
---john9346 on 1/25/18


I rarely correspond with you David, because I have seen you to be stiff-necked when it comes to the subjects of OT Law and NT grace.---Mark_Eaton on 1/24/18

Mark
In reality, if your honest, isnt the rarity of your correspondence due to your inability to support your position using the Bible, as I do? I dont say this to cause you to anger, but to challenge you to prove me wrong, by using only the doctrine the disciples had. Which is the point of Stevens question.

John
The reference was to the false doctrines folks follow. It doesn't do any good to call an individual doctrine false, if you cant show it to be false. And you cant show it to be false, when folks are blind to the Truth.
---David on 1/25/18


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My guess is they were forced to rely heavily on the Holy Spirit for the confirmation of Truth, rather than just take someones word for it.
---David on 1/24/18

I rarely correspond with you David, because I have seen you to be stiff-necked when it comes to the subjects of OT Law and NT grace.

But your post shows something I think you may have missed in your studies.

The truth is not a thing, it is a who. Jesus is the Truth. Jesus is the Word.

As for what Jesus taught, He taught as no one ever taught before. His "I AM" and calling God "My Father" was totally new. His commandments were also new and His yoke is indeed easy and His burden light.

This is His truth.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/24/18


david said, "Steven
Good question, asked to cause folks to think on their own, apart from their doctrine. My guess is they were forced to rely heavily on the Holy Spirit for."

The problem with this conclusion is this question shapes and creates doctrine. Everyone has a doctrine rather true or false everyone holds to a doctrine.
---john9346 on 1/24/18


Steven
Good question, asked to cause folks to think on their own, apart from their doctrine. My guess is they were forced to rely heavily on the Holy Spirit for the confirmation of Truth, rather than just take someones word for it.

Notice, Paul has more books in the Bible than those he called the super apostles. Why? Its because they could pervert his letters.
---David on 1/24/18


Along with what wivv has said > each Christian was included in being >

"the epistle of Christ" > see 2 Corinthians 3:1-3.

And Paul says how ones became "examples" > see 1 Thessalonians 1:7. We were "examples" of what God's word really means (c:, including,

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love." (Ephesians 4:2)

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

We have experienced how God in His love "in our hearts" (Romans 5:5) has lovingly forgiven us. Our Teacher demonstrates what His word means . . . in us! (c:
---Bill on 1/19/18


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In the first 100 hundreds of Christianity, there were at least four means used to promoted the gospel. One, the Old Testament, two, Christ Himself, three other people who had experienced salvation through Christ and fourth the letters written by The Apostle and others to the new churches or individuals,(These letters make up the present New Testament.)
---wivv on 1/13/18


Jesus as God Himself was using Himself to teach as them.

Pharisees and Scribes were very upset that He was using His own Authority.

After Jesus' Death and while the Disciples were alive they were following the Disciple's words.

Because the Disciple's words were Jesus' Words. Including Paul's words.

Paul and the Disciples sent letters which some were saved until today and are included in our Bible
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/13/18


The Early Scriptures used by Christians was the Old Testament. Jews were very literate people. Many heard the entire Bible read and others owned many parts of it. But Paul started writing and the Gospels were written about 30 years after the death of Jesus. That is historian best guess.

Mark is considered the first Gospel written and Galatians first letter written.

There is many places you can check this out. But there are some people out there trying to prove the Bible false who make many claims not backed up with facts.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/12/18


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