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Mark Of The Beast

Will christians have the spiritual insight to reject the soon-to-come mark of the beast?

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 ---Steveng on 1/29/18
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StrongAxe: Roman Catholic refers to the particular branch (i.e. the largest) of the Catholic church whose seat of authority is in the Vatican (i.e. in Rome).//

NO it doesn't. Vatican City ISN'T in Rome.

Vatican City is a COUNTRY.

Rome is a CITY in a Country called Italy.

//The Catholic church itself has used the term Roman Catholic in official writings as late as the 1950s.//

PROVE IT!

I told you that the Pope doesn't add or delete a word when QUOTING someone.

If he did he wouldn't be quoting the person now would he?

I don't care what the Anglicans/Episcopalians calls themselves.

But I wouldn't DISRESPECT them by calling them another name other than the name they have chosen
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/12/18


Jerry: The word "Catholic" means "universal" as in the universal church of Christ//

Correct! That's why the Church called itself Catholic before 1054.

Today is another matter. As you know the word 'Catholic' doesn't mean you are Baptist.

But that doesn't mean it was the CC fault.

People separated themselves and choose another name. Then they told people by what name they wanted people to call them. Out of respect people including the (Catholic Church) call them by that name.

But here people who LEFT the CC added a name to us and REFUSE to drop that name even when asked. Including those on CN.

No reconciling. Left fake media also. Remember Obama 1st enemy? The Catholic Church.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/12/18


We will need strength of character of God's almighty grace, as well as spiritual insight. We need how God is able to prepare us so we do not give in.

If we are dependent spiritually on money, for example, we could be weak enough to give in so we can have and use money.

Our Apostle Paul says,

"All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (in 1 Corinthians 6:12)

So, if we are weak enough to be "under the power" of anything of this life, this weakness could make us able to give in.
---Bill on 5/12/18


Nicole: The word "Catholic" means "universal" as in the universal church of Christ - of which I consider myself a member. So, you could say that I am a Catholic too. (I am also a Baptist, a Presbyterian, etc. for similar reasons.) I am also a SDA because I believe in the Second Coming of Christ and the Bible Sabbath.

The word "church" is technically the "people" of any denomination. Thus, I make the distinction between the Catholic people (whom I love) and the papal hierarchy (which I do not).

How do you reconcile your conservative American beliefs with the obvious Communist wealth redistribution and Muslim-pandering of your current pope?



---jerry6593 on 5/12/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Roman Catholic refers to the particular branch (i.e. the largest) of the Catholic church whose seat of authority is in the Vatican (i.e. in Rome). There are other, separate Catholic churches, like the Polish National Catholic Church. The term Roman Catholic specifically differentiates it from the others.

The Catholic church itself has used the term Roman Catholic in official writings as late as the 1950s. The Pope himself quoted (without negative comment) a cardinal and saint who used the term. If they are OK with the use of the term, why are you SO offended by it?

In the same way, the Church of England refers to Anglicans/Episcopalians everywhere. England just refers to where the head of the church is.
---StrongAxe on 5/6/18




//No. The RCC is the Catholic people.---jerry6593 on 5/5/18

Well since Catholics do NOT call ourselves Roman Catholic Catholics (RCC), it is impossible for RCC to be the Catholic people.

Jerry, as I have said in the past. Catholics do not call ourselves Roman Catholics.

We say we are Catholic.

Sweet and to the point.

John Calvin coined the word 'Roman' and placed it on us.

Just as we did to the Native American by calling them Indians.

The corrected us and told us we are not Indians but should be called Native Americans since we were here before anyone came to America. Which is correct.

Thus they are called Native Americans.

As Catholics are NOT all from Rome we are called Catholics
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/18


It might also be possible that the woman riding the beast, who is a city could be Jerusalem. She is called the mother of Harlots and abominations of the earth in Rev 17. God often referred to the Israelites as Harlots. The Catholic Church/Papal system is not the original church/kingdom that God set up in the wilderness from which all religions and denominations originate.

We see also that the beast will make war with the Lamb and turn on the woman to destroy her in Rev. 17:12-18. The destruction comes with great detail in Rev. 18. Also see Jeremiah 7:30-34. In Rev. 21, the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven.
---barb on 5/6/18


ax: "Is it possible that the Beast will be the RCC at some time in future?"

No. The RCC is the Catholic people. The Beast is Satan, and the Woman riding on the Beast is the papal system. I believe that you are right in that the mark is yet future, when a law is enacted to kill anyone who does not worship the Beast or the Image to the Beast.



---jerry6593 on 5/5/18


jerry6593:

Sorry, my mistake. I got the chapter number wrong.

But the ALL that you speak of does not include everyone on earth, but rather only those who will not be saved, as defined earlier as:

That still doesn't apply. MOST of the world is not saved, yet there is no evidence that most of the world has the mark of the RCC on it and cannot buy or sell without it. According to Revelation, the whole Beast and Mark thing will happen some time after John wrote it, and since we haven't seen it yet either, it must be in our future as well.

Is it possible that the Beast will be the RCC at some time in future? Theoretically, it's possible. Is the Beast the RCC now or any time in the past? Absolutely not.
---StrongAxe on 4/30/18


ax: I think I spotted your problem. In my Bible, Rev 12:16 is not as you stated.

I think you wanted Rev 13:16, as:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

But the ALL that you speak of does not include everyone on earth, but rather only those who will not be saved, as defined earlier as:

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Note that both the mark of the Beast and the seal of God involve worship.


---jerry6593 on 4/30/18




jerry6593:

I wrote: people ARE forced to receive the Mark of the Beast

You wrote: Not true! They "receive" the mark they CHOOSE in their mind (forehead) or by their works (hand). The mark is a sign or seal of whom one chooses to worship. God has a seal and so does Satan.

Rev 12:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

Not inviteth. Not suggesteth. Causeth.

Look to the very next verse. Since MOST of the people in the world buy and sell EVEN THOUGH they are not Catholics, RCC CANNOT fit this, at least not yet.
---StrongAxe on 4/29/18


//RC Papacy (not Catholic people)---jerry6593 on 4/26/18

???

Please tell me the difference.

I am Catholic and Pope Francis is my Pope.

Who is this Roman Catholic you speak about and their Pope?
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/28/18


ax: "people ARE forced to receive the Mark of the Beast"

Not true! They "receive" the mark they CHOOSE in their mind (forehead) or by their works (hand). The mark is a sign or seal of whom one chooses to worship. God has a seal and so does Satan.

I delineated the biblical clues to the Beast's identity below. Scroll down.



---jerry6593 on 4/28/18


jerry6593:

You wrote: Wrong! The RCC has indeed met the BIBLICAL criteria I listed. The criteria you listed are not biblical.

That is EXACTLY MY POINT. Nobody is forced to join the RCC, but people ARE forced to receive the Mark of the Beast. Therefore, the RCC CANNOT BE the Mark of the Beast.

There is not now, nor has there ever been ANY entitity that meets the biblical criteria of the Beast - forcing EVERYONE to receive a mark, and forbidding ANYONE from buying or selling without it. That must therefore necessarily be in the FUTURE for us, just as it was in the FUTURE for John.

Please state exactly WHICH "biblical criteria" you think the RCC fulfills.
---StrongAxe on 4/27/18


riolin: You claim that SDAs "promote doctrines that are not of Scripture".

Name one!


ax: "No entity in the past has met the criteria."

Wrong! The RCC has indeed met the BIBLICAL criteria I listed. The criteria you listed are not biblical. No one is forced to join the RCC, or to receive a mark - it is a personal choice.

Would you care to name some entity that meets the BIBLICAL criteria?
---jerry6593 on 4/27/18


Proverbs 23:23 - Buy the truth , and do not sell it, Also wisdom and instruction and understanding,

1 Corinthians 2:13

2 Thessalonians 2:2
---RichardC on 4/26/18


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jerry6593:

No entity in the past has met the criteria (see below).


riolion:

You can surmise it, but you would be wrong. If the RCC were the Mark, ALL the following would be true. NONE are:
- Everyone is forced to join the RCC
- Everyone must accept the RCC on right hand or forehead
- Nobody can buy or sell without the RCC
- RCC is the name of the Beast or the number of his name (RCC is neither. Lutheran and Mormon at least are names).

"Everyone" implies worldwide. While RCC has presence everywhere, it does not dominate everywhere, especially in communist counties like China, where most humans on the planet live.
---StrongAxe on 4/26/18


True the SDA does not have the corner on the truth. Especially since the majority of our doctrines are held by Protestants now and in history.

We have 28 fundamental doctrines. Only 2 are not held by other Christians. So when you say we don't agree with other Chrsitians you are mistaken.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/26/18


While we can surmise that the RC has all the traits of the mark of the Beast, we can also truthfully say that the SDA is also of the same thread in that they also promote doctrines that are not of Scripture. Sorry but the SDA does not have a corner on the truth and they NEVER did.
---riolion on 4/26/18


Nicole: As you know, I have the greatest respect for devout Catholic people, and freely admit that there will likely be more Catholics in heaven than SDAs. However, this does not alter the truth that the RC Papacy (not Catholic people) is the only entity in all history that fits ALL the "beast, antichrist, man-of-sin" clues given in scripture. If you can name another, I am willing to to be persuaded.


---jerry6593 on 4/26/18


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Cluny and ax: It has been 3 weeks and neither you guys nor anyone else has accepted my challenge to suggest an historical entity who meets the Biblical characteristics of the Beast. Why is that? Ignorance on the subject,perhaps?



---jerry6593 on 4/24/18


Half-shekel coin bears profile of Trump
Temple organizations issue half-shekel coin showing Trump alongside Cyrus, King of Persia. 'Cyrus - Balfour - Trump - Declaration 2018.'

Shimon Cohen, 21/02/18 22:15

Temple organizations have issued a half-shekel coin, the likes of which the Torah mandates every Jewish male must donate to the Temple, with a weight of 9.5 grams in real silver.

On the facade of the coin is a picture of the Temple with the inscription "Half Shekel." On the other side is the figure of US President Donald Trump, alongside Cyrus, King of Persia, who made the building of the Second Temple possible. Below them is the inscription, Cyrus - Balfour - Trump - Declaration 2018.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/18


Dear Nicole look up Papal states and Papal armies. They are well documented in the Papal wars. Which Popes were involved and which were not.

Julius II and Alexander VI were the biggest Warrior Popes.

Look up the City of Castro in Italy. 17th Century.

Now different but close the Crusades were fought in behalf of the Popes. Including the Crusade against the Cathars. They eliminated them and those who protected them from earth.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/23/18


Samuel, Popes NEVER had a military to kill anyone.

You as many have confused Catholic Leaders of countries with Pope.

Not ONE POPE lead a military war.

NOT ONE
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/22/18


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I don't believe Niocle you can back that up on Christians martyrs. Wars have indeed killed more people in the 20th century. But that is war.

The Renaissance Popes murdered many thousands of Protestants and other heretics. They also were the Papal wars for power and money.

Did you see the CNN special on the Popes? They actually treated them fairly. But still showed much of the brutality they caused.

I believe many Christians will reject the mark of the Beast. The Anti Christ will have the Governments work for him. He will not need an army.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/18


I just saw your challenge. Your notice that the Pope is the Beast is ridiculous because She has NO earthly power.

Her only support is Jesus as promised in Matt 16:18 without military support.

Which proves She isn't on Satan's side because in Matt 12:24-28.

Many Beasts long ago, but in the 20th Century Mao killed 100 million, Stalin killed 50 to 70 million, and Hitler who killed the least at 12 million. Why people use Hitler's name as the most evil man in the 20th century amazes me. Anyway they killed over 200 million combine.

The 20th century killed more people than all centuries combined.
And killed more Christian Martyrs than all centuries combined. Martyrs not by other Religious faiths but by ATHEISTS
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/22/18


Cluny and ax: It has been 3 weeks and neither you guys nor anyone else has accepted my challenge to suggest an historical entity who meets the Biblical characteristics of the Beast. Why is that? Ignorance on the subject,perhaps?



---jerry6593 on 4/22/18


ax: I listed 10 Bible characteristics of the Beast. I challenge you to name any power in all human history other than the RC Papacy that fits these characteristics.



---jerry6593 on 4/1/18


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jerry6593:

The beast is referred to as HE. The red woman is different.

Many cities have 7 hills - Rome, Jerusalem, Mecca, even San Francisco. (If Mecca/Islam/OPEC imploded, you can bet most countries would weep). There was much talk about the E.U. being the beast when it numbered 7 or 10 countries, but that theory is no longer in vogue. Many names can be fiangled to equal 666.

He speaks blasphemies, but it's presumptuous to claim to know WHICH blasphemies he will speak.

NOBODY will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the Beast. This is nowhere near close to true now. The beast hasn't been revealed yet. His identity is all speculation.
---StrongAxe on 3/23/18


The Beast:

Is both a woman (church) and a city.

Has it's seat on seven mountains.

Arises from among the 10 nations after the fall of pagan Rome, and as a "little horn," it roots up 3 of the 10.

Is diverse from the other powers - as iron and clay are unmixable.

Has the eyes of a man and a name which may be counted to total 666.

Speaks blasphemy - two examples of which are given by the Bible as (1) claiming to be God and (2) claiming the power to forgive sins against God.

Persecuted the saints of God for 1260 years (42 months or 3 1/2 times).

Thinks to change times and laws.

Suffered a deadly wound that was healed.

And all the world wonders after the Beast.
---jerry6593 on 3/22/18


cluny: Please try to stay focused on the blog subject. Who/what do YOU think is the Beast and what is his mark? What Sam & I think is not the issue.



---jerry6593 on 3/9/18


\\luny: I didn't think you had a clue - just more SDA hate speech.\\

Please be precise and tell me what I said that was wrong.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/18


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cluny: I didn't think you had a clue - just more SDA hate speech.


---jerry6593 on 3/7/18


Sdas used to say that the second beast of Rev 13, whom Christians say is the False Prophet, is the US government, at all levels, with its terrible Sunday blue laws that forced people to worship on Sunday and stop working.

What they say noww with Sunday's almost total commericialization is enyone's guess.

Wanna fill us in, Jerry and SAmuel?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/6/18


There are 2 beasts in Revelation 13. One comes up out of the sea (One world government) Rev 13:1-3 and the 2nd one comes up out of the earth (Satan) Rev 13:11-18. The dragon (Satan) gives his power to the leader (false prophet) of the one world government. Rev 13:4-12.

The battle for truth begins and those who do not live in truth and refuse to learn it will be deceived and take the beast's mark. Rev 19:20. Those who know their God and believe His Word unto death are marked for eternal life. Rev.14:12-14. How many Christians are praying for spiritual insight?
---barb on 3/6/18


Jerry: Who/whatdo you say the beast and his mark is? Why?

Samuel: Just what do you mean by "keep the Sabbath?"

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/18


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Cluny: The usual misdirection, I see. So again I ask:

Have you got a clue as to who the Beast is or what his mark is?



---jerry6593 on 3/4/18


Hello Cluny there were also Churches in Africa who were still keeping Sabbath until modern times.

The Popes threated and had killed people who kept Sabbath. They for ages claimed they did it. But you are right. No one Pope actually changed it. The just made it a death Penalty to keep to keep Sabbath. Or break Sunday.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/4/18


\\Have any of you got a clue as to who the Beast is or what his mark is?\\

I know Sdas think it's that nasty ole pope feller bcause he's the one who changed Saturday to Sunday.

Of course, they Never say which pope did it.

Nor do they explain how ancient churches that had NOTHING to do with Rome, such as India, have SUNDAY for their main worship day.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 3/3/18


Although this discussion has gotten way off topic, I can't help but comment on the creative interpretations and resistance to the plain teachings of Scripture shown below.

Christ spent much time emphasizing the His return and the state of expectant readiness required of us. He gave us signs by which we could know that it is near, and before each such description He said "let no man deceive you". I now see what he meant by that.

The concept that Jesus was talking about our individual deaths rather than His universal 2nd coming is belied by His statement that "every eye shall see Him". (BTW, I didn't see Him.)

Have any of you got a clue as to who the Beast is or what his mark is?


---jerry6593 on 2/24/18


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Cometh at a hour when ye think not, ------------ > Death ?

Hebrews 9:27 - And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment,

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - But ye brethren , are not in darkness , that that day should over take you as a thief,

( If someone is Born again, then how can the thief over take him ? even if he dies in his sleep ? Alway be ready )
---RichardC on 2/14/18


Cometh at an hour when ye think not ----------- at Death ?

Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - but ye brethren, are not in darkness, that tat day should overtake you as a thief.

( If a person dies unexpectedly and they are Save, How can they be overtaken ? )
---RichardC on 2/15/18


Lk 12:40 is one of many verses the founders of Adventism totally ignored back in Oct. 1844. So why should we follow theirbrainless followers?
---Riolion on 2/15/18


jerry6593:

You wrote: Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Precisely! If you say "he is coming soon", that means YOU expect him soon. He will therefore surprise you and NOT come soon, because that's the last thing you will expect!

The only way he will come at a time when we don't expect is if there's no way we can tell when he's coming until he actually comes. Many doomsday prophets over the past two millenia have forgotten this, specified times and dates, and been proven wrong. Don't be one of them.

Are we to be READY for him to come at any time? Yes. Are we SURE that he will come at any specific time? No.
---StrongAxe on 2/14/18


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ax:

Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.


---jerry6593 on 2/14/18


jerry6593:

You quoted 2Pe 3:3-4.

I'm not scoffing, nor saying that it will never happen. However, the Bible refers to everything after the coming of Jesus as the "latter days", and gives no clear indication of just WHEN during the latter days Jesus would return. Since it's been around 2000 years already, and many people have attempted to poinpoint exact or even approximate dates (and been wrong every time so far), it's fairly presumptuous to claim categorically that it will be "soon" (e.g. during your or my lifetime) and not 100 or 1000 years from now. There are many signs that could point to the fact that it "may" be soon. There are none that point to the fact that it "will" be soon.
---StrongAxe on 2/6/18


ax: "You presume that the Beast will come soon, which may or may not be true. Christians have been anticipating the Apocalypse for 2000 years."

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


---jerry6593 on 2/6/18


Mark of the beast = image of a man = Serpent = a beast of the field (racial slur)who was a human
---Earl on 2/4/18


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Steveng:

You presume that the Beast will come soon, which may or may not be true. Christians have been anticipating the Apocalypse for 2000 years. First century Christians believed it was imminent. There was a frenzy of apocalyptic hysteria just before 1000 A.D. There have been many apocalyptic movements sine 1843, one of which was the Millerites, that spawned both Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses. Many preachers in the past few decades wrongly pointed to this and that date, this and that sign (credit cards, then UPC bar codes, now RFID chips, etc.).

NONE of these can apply until the Beast actually appears, and controls ALL global markets, which doesn't seem feasible any time in the immediate future.
---StrongAxe on 2/3/18


Steveng those given to know that the impostor comes first, and are open to the inspiration of the Father without any preconceived notions that may hinder that reception, yes, most definitely.
---josef on 2/3/18


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