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Who Will Be Saved

Is it true that God does not know who will be save? Are those coming to Christ a surprise to God? What God do you belief in?
One who knows, or one who doesn't know. Is He waiting to find out who will?

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Because if there are those present who are not of the Elect they certainly need to know why they're not and if you are the Elect your encouraged to continue...
---john9346 on 4/23/18

How does either one know who is the elect and who is not?

And if you are the elect this is not encouraging words,

"but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. " Mt 6:13-15

tells them "Shun immorality. " Future tense!"

Because Paul was reminding them of what they were this has nothing to do with them losing their salvation...
---john9346 on 4/23/18



Definition of shun

: TO AVOID deliberately,
---Ruben on 4/23/18


reuben ask, "If you are not chosen why the warning? And if you are chosen why would you need to be warn?"

Because if there are those present who are not of the Elect they certainly need to know why they're not and if you are the Elect your encouraged to continue the fruits that only the Elect are able to bear...
---john9346 on 4/23/18


Reuben:

"And how does the Father grant that you go to Jesus?"

Jesus tells you in vs 44.

"Did Jesus disciples believe in him?"

Yes, see vs 37-39...

"Why mention something in the past? v 18 tells them "Shun immorality. " Future tense!"

Because Paul was reminding them of what they were this has nothing to do with them losing their salvation...
---john9346 on 4/23/18


Strongaxe:

You cited a number of Scriptures your point????
---john9346 on 4/23/18


John 15:1-6 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/22/18




john9346 * You reference Matt 6:14-15, but these are warning verses because all there weren't chosen and only the chosen forgive not the unchosen...

But Jesus told the Chosen ones, " IF YOU DO NOT FORGIVE men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. v 14 Remember the Apostles ask teach us how to pray!

John 9346* There are a lot of warning passages in Scripture because not that were listening were chosen.

Who were the warning scripture verses for?

If you are not chosen why the warning? And if you are chosen why would you need to be warn?
---Ruben on 4/22/18


John 9346*And did you read vs64-65 before 66 my friend??

And how does the Father grant that you go to Jesus?

v40 " that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life"

Did Jesus disciples believe in him?

" This is hard who can understand..and many return to their former life" v 60-66


2. You cited 1 Cor 6:9-10, but you didn't continue reading vs 11 they were that pass-tense not future-tense...

Why mention something in the past? v 18 tells them "Shun immorality. " Future tense!
---Ruben on 4/21/18


john9346:

Lam 3:38: Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Jr 18:11: Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, "Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good."
Is 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Am 3:6: Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
Ez 20:25: Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live,
---StrongAxe on 4/19/18


Thank you John for that statement from the Baptist confession of faith. It is a great point.

Knowing is not causing.
Love GOD love others.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/19/18


strongaxe said, "If God has decreed all that happens, he's the author of all that happens, both good and evil."

Strongaxe, i'm sure you do know right that evil is not the opposite of good, but the absence of it.

Like one pastor said, "The world was made for calvary."

Yes, Adam and Lucifer was decreed in the Eternal Purpose of God's .
---john9346 on 4/19/18




If God has decreed all that happens, he's the author of all that happens, both good and evil. God created angels and Satan, just as J. K. Rowling created Harry Potter and Voldemort.

Lucifer was God's chief angel "until inquity was found in him" (Ezekiel 28:15). That iniquity came from inside (God made him with a fundamental flaw), or outside him (God made evil somewhere else and made Lucifer weak and unable to withstand it). The evil in creation had to be created, and who created everything?

Jesus was "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the World" (Revelation 13:8), so God KNEW Adam would fall and doom billions when he put him and the serpent and the two trees in the Eden, yet did it anyway.
---StrongAxe on 4/18/18


strongaxe:

Perhaps the following wil help you gain more understanding:

"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass, yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein, nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established, in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree."

LBC 1689 ch 3 par 1
---john9346 on 4/18/18


john9346:

You wrote: Strongaxe, the God of Holy Scripture is sovereign and I pray you'll turn to him today my friend...

Why should I turn to him today, as I already turned to him 46 years ago? You're preaching to the converted.

However, that doesn't stop me from being uncomfortable with God being the ultimate author of evil as well as being the ultimate author of good.
---StrongAxe on 4/18/18


Reuben:


"After this many of his(Jesus) disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.Jhn 6:66."

And did you read vs64-65 before 66 my friend??

2. You cited 1 Cor 6:9-10, but you didn't continue reading vs 11 they were that pass-tense not future-tense...

3. You reference Matt 6:14-15, but these are warning verses because all there weren't chosen and only the chosen forgive not the unchosen...

There are a lot of warning passages in Scripture because not that were listening were chosen.
---john9346 on 4/17/18


strongaxe said, "
Which means that when evil happens, either God deliberately caused that evil, or allowed it to happen as part of some Bigger Plan that required that evil to work. What does that say about God?"

First, it says that the Lord God he alone is "Absolutely Sovereign..."

Next, if God does not decree evil then all you have is a causeless universe with no meaning or purpose...

See, Gen 50:20 Ps. 115:3, Isa 45:6-7, Amos 3:6, Isa 40:13-14.

Strongaxe, the God of Holy Scripture is sovereign and I pray you'll turn to him today my friend...
---john9346 on 4/17/18


So explain if he accomplish what he said in Matt 1:21 and in Lk 19:10 then wy are there people in Hell.

---john9346 on 4/14/18

Several reasons:

1. After this many of his(Jesus) disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.Jhn 6:66

2. Do not be deceived, neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 6:8-11

3. if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Mat 6:15

Plus many many more..
---Ruben on 4/17/18


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john9346:

Which means that when evil happens, either God deliberately caused that evil, or allowed it to happen as part of some Bigger Plan that required that evil to work. What does that say about God?

I hope you realize that quite a few so-called witches were burned because power-hungry men (typically Christian community leaders) coveted their land, but instead of legally buying it, the concocted fake evidence, had those witches burned at the stake, and just took their land.

How does that kind of murder-for-greed that cries out to heaven for justice fit in with God's "ordained purpose"?
---StrongAxe on 4/17/18


strongaxe said, "Can God intervene? Yes. But does he? Rarely."

Strongaxe, everything that happens whether good or evil is ordained by the Lord of heaven and earth and God is directing those things.

See, Isa 45:6-7 Amos 3:6.

God ordained and had a purpose in the Salem Witch trials, the burning of heretics etc...
---john9346 on 4/16/18


Haz27 said, "JOHN. I answered twice before, Jesus did do what he said he would do in Matt 1:21 and Lk 19:10."

No sir, you didn't every time up until now when I have asked you you kept repeating what someone else said please remember sir my question is addressed to you let others answer for themselves...

So now you admit that the Lord jesus did accomplish what he said in Matt 1:21 and in Lk 19:10

So explain if he accomplish what he said in Matt 1:21 and in Lk 19:10 then wy are there people in Hell.

Before you respond remember you just agreed with me that the Lord jesus's Atonement was a Definite Atonement...
---john9346 on 4/14/18


samuelBB7 said, "Well we have only been arguing about some of these points since Augustine. Then Calvin."

Actually, its been since the fall...
---john9346 on 4/14/18


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Samuel, sorry you saw that as sarcasm. Actually it's a fact with many. One day, man will say...." We Studied your word and read it every day" and God will answer. " yea, But Did you DO what I asked? "


Many today sit in churches all over the world and think because they go to church, or study or know this Greek word or that Hebrew word....that they are saved. WRONG.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/18


Well we have only been arguing about some of these points since Augustine. Then Calvin.

Kathyr. Sarcasm is not a just defense or proof.

First the Bible makes plain In Matthew 25 that some who think they are Christians are not since they don't love others. They are the goats.

Calvin and many of his followers used to teach. That the chosen lived for Jesus all their lives. Something like John MacArthur teaches.

My problem is not with those who teach that Christians will live for Jesus. But those who teach that if a person believes that being saved allows them to live in sin.

Adventist like Methodist don't adhere to once saved always saved or TUILIP.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/11/18


Definite and potential are Calvinist words to confuse, and twist doctrine. Don't take the bate Haz27.

The bible never uses these terms. But scripture clearly says that there is no more offering for sin. Hebrews 10.

John just read and study Hebrews 10. It answers all your questions.

Just like SIN IS SIN . But some categorize that too...Venial sins. This kind of sin, that kind of sin....HOGWASH. ALL sin is just plain sin.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/18


JOHN. I answered twice before, Jesus did do what he said he would do in Matt 1:21 and Lk 19:10.

As for your peculiar labels, Kathr already addressed that one.

Best you just keep to Biblical terms with scripture references instead of your irrelevant, peculiar labels.
---Haz27 on 4/11/18


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The Bible says he who endures to the end shall be saved. God has the ability to know before hand who will be saved but why should He bother with it when we have the marker on us. Those who endure.
---Darlene1 on 4/11/18


Haz27 said, JOHN. Jesus sacrifice ended the need for yearly sacrifice. Once in Christ no further sacrifice is needed as the believer is covered by Christ's sinlessness.

Sir, agree, but your not answering the question again is the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ a Definite Atonement or a Potential Atonement yes or no??
Did the Lord Jesus do what he said he would do in Matt 1:21 and Lk 19:10 yes or no?
---john9346 on 4/11/18


RichardC,

Thank you for pointing out the word, Hina. (Whosoever) In Greek in Jn 3:16.

The context of Jn 3:16 doesnt allow for a Universal Redemption in other words the idea that Jesus died for everyone is Utterly False if the context of Jn 3 is permitted to speak for itself

In addition, the Greek Word, Kosmos. (world) doesnt always mean everyone all the time in Scripture
---john9346 on 4/11/18


God said to Noah...Genesis6:17. So Noah preached this for 125 years. But the Calvinist's formed the Council of Idiots and spent years defining the words " flood of waters" "destroy all flesh", "breath of life under heaven" "everything in the earth shall die". So they started an acronym and spent 125 years deciding what definitions to put to these words. Then one day, as they were boasting about their doctrine....low and behold, the flood came and WALLA, their head knowledge did not save them. And their newly defined dictionary of words and meanings did NOT CHANGE one thing. FAITH has nothing to do with reason. Moses parted the sea...he did not have to understand HOW it was going to happen.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/18


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JOHN. Jesus sacrifice ended the need for yearly sacrifice. Once in Christ no further sacrifice is needed as the believer is covered by Christ's sinlessness.

Christians are in Christ (Gal 2:20, Col 3:3), and thus born of God (1John 5:1) and thus cannot sin (1John 3:9. Speaking of our spiritual position in Christ) because in Christ there is no sin (1John 3:5).
---Haz27 on 4/10/18


RichardC, I don't read those verses the way you do. Whosoever believes...does not say universal salvation...it says who ever "believes" . Many will not believe.. And the whosoever is the first time the Gospel is being preached to Gentiles and NOT ONLY TO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.....which brings us to your other verse....that now that the Gospel is being preached to the Gentiles they TOO are ORDAINED to life. ONLY Jesus was FORORDAINED to take away sin. Now everyone who believes , including Gentiles is ordained to LIFE EVERLASTING. You OVERPLAY WITH the word "ordained". Shame on you. Ordained does not mean FOREORDAINED.

Remember YOU were grafted in wild against nature. So stop boasting.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/18


"Definite atonement", "potential atonement". hilarious! John and RichardC along with all Calvinist's have their own dictionary with their very own meanings to support their very own cult. It's a common practice. Also they love throwing out these words to make you think they know something you don't... BOORING!

Neither of those words are used in scripture John. Nice try. Totally dorky. I guess John's gnostic side is coming out...having some sort of superior KNOWLEGDE to something his supposed church fathers had some council over and decided this or that in order to perpetuate the lies. That's what they have to do when confronted with scripture that doesn't fit into their false doctrine.
---kathr4454 on 4/10/18


Karthr : Whosoever - Of coarse this has a lot to do with John 3:16 - Which is a big one with people who believe in Universal Redemption, The Word Whosoever- Is Not, as far as I know - Not in the Greek Language - Shows up in the English.

Act 13:48 - And the Gentiles heard this , they were glad, and and glorified the word of God, and as many were Ordained to eternal life believe.

---> Ordained

Thessalonians 3:3 - But The lord is faithful, who will stablish you, and keep you from evil.

ALL - Universal Redemption

ALL- Chosen - Elect -Predestined

Belief - Faith - From God or Will of man ?

Romans 3:11
---RichardC on 4/9/18


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haz 27 said, "what is finished is that sacrifice for sin."

Haz my question to you is was this a "Definite Atonement?" or a "Potential Atonement?" Did the Lord Jesus accomplish what he said in Matt 1:21 and Lk 19:10??

Haz27 said, "And remember that in Christ there is no sin (1John 3:5)."

Sir, is this for the "Elect." or for those who are in Hell??
---john9346 on 4/9/18


No one is burning in hell right now. The lake of fire comes after the final judgement. However as Abel Job, Noah etc were believers before the cross, were in a place called Abraham's bosom, aka Paradise, but ARE NOW, AS HEBREWS 12 SHOW, are in Heaven called the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT. That PERFECTION came after Jesus death and resurrection. Perfect also means complete.

Here is a good example of people using terms like " the finished works of Christ" but have their own definition. Jesus also fulfilled the LAW when He said It is finished. The LAW required death for sin, and Jesus paid the sin debt not only for us BUT ALSO FOR THE SIN OF THE WHOLE WORLD...
---kathr4453 on 4/9/18


John, Jesus did what He said in John 19:30 and Matt 1:21. When He said "it is finished", I believe He meant His suffering as the Passover Lamb was finished. Also see John 17:1-8 which tells us about the work that His Father gave Him to do. It was His words/teachings. Speaking of His disciples He prays, "I have given them the words that you gave me and they have received them." Now read John 1:9-14. It is His words, teachings that were rejected by most of the world. They could have taken His words into their minds/intellects but preferred the words of the Pharisees, Scribes, false prophets and false apostles.

I believe those who are in Hell right now, are asleep and unaware of their whereabouts. Rev. 20:11-15.
---barb on 4/8/18


JOHN. Kathr is correct that what is finished is that sacrifice for sin.

Hence we have salvation available to us when we believe on Jesus. And being in Christ (Col 3:3, Gal 2:20) we are covered by Christ's sinlessness, righteousness and holiness.

Christians have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all, Heb 10:10.

And remember that in Christ there is no sin (1John 3:5).
---Haz27 on 4/8/18


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Haz27:

1. The Greek Word (kosmos) in Jn 3:16 and Jn 1:29 doesn't mean every singgle person who has ever lived.

2. The Lord Jesus Christ said, "it is finished." Jn 19:30. If people are in Hell today, then what did the Lord Jesus finish??

3. The Lord Jesus said he came to save his people from their sins see, Mat 1:21. Many are burning in Hell Fire, people are not save right now did the Lord Jesus accomplish this work?? Is the Lord Jesus a liar??

4. The Underlining Question is did the Lord Jesus do what he said in Jn 19:30 and Matt 1:21.

---john9346 on 4/8/18


reuben ask, "But if he is still on earth and is spiritually dead , why can I not ask him/her if they want pizza?"

Because Dead People can not make a choice my friend...

According to Scripture Sinners are Spiritually Dead see, Eph 2:1-2, Rom 3:10-12, Rom 8:7-8, Jn 3:19-20, 6:44, and Col 2:13...


---john9346 on 4/8/18


Martin Luther said, "Free-will is an empty term, whose reality is lost. And a lost liberty, according to my grammar, is no liberty at all."

Sinners can not choose they are Spiritually Dead according to Scripture...

---john9346 on 4/8/18


John, Hebrews 10 tell exactly what was FINISHED. The blood of bulls and goats sacrificed day after day, YEAR AFTER YEAR only COVERED sin. Even Abel's sacrifice only COVERED. That "covering" did not LIMIT who could put their faith in Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, in Israel ALL WERE COVERED, yet we see not all ended up saved. Romans 10 also DEFINES THE FINISHED WORK "OF CHRIST". Today the FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST invite not JUST Israel , but GENTILES ....aka WHOSOEVER WILL, OR ALL. "ALL" MANKIND ARE INVITED TO RECEIVE CHRIST. And those who do are FORGIVEN...and not just for a year...that part IS FINISHED.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/18


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Thank you Nicole and Haz.

From the very beginning of Genesis God established a pattern. God NEVER SAID "Abel I loved, Cain I hated". And if one looked at Hebrews 11 along with Genesis, it was Abel's OFFERING that was accepted, and Cains's OFFERING that was rejected. And God said in Hebrews 11:4 that by faith Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain ( a blood offering pointing to the promised redeemer)

And we see in Genesis God gave Cain a SECOND CHANCE TO DO WHAT WAS RIGHT, but Cain's PRIDE stood in the way....NOT GOD.

And this PATTERN is stated many ways OVER AND OVER AND OVER, and its failure also stated over and over. Now just read Romans 10:1-4.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/18


Haz27 and Nicole:

1. The Greek Word (kosmos) in Jn 3:16 and Jn 1:29 doesn't mean every singgle person who has ever lived.

2. The Lord Jesus Christ said, "it is finished." Jn 19:30. If people are in Hell today, then what did the Lord Jesus finish??

3. The Lord Jesus said he came to save his people from their sins see, Mat 1:21. Many are burning in Hell Fire, people are not save right now did the Lord Jesus accomplish this work?? Is the Lord Jesus a liar??

4. The Underling Question is did the Lord Jesus do what he said in Jn 19:30 and Matt 1:21.
---john9346 on 4/8/18


Nicole said, "EXCELLENT! That is exactly how Jesus offers His Salvation."

Nicole this is false...

Can you tell us all was the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ a "Definite." Atonement or a "Potential." Atonement?
---john9346 on 4/8/18


Haz: The sin the world is convicted of now is unbelief in Jesus Christ (John 16:9).//

Yes, but many believe in Jesus but refuse to Trust in Him or accept to follow His rules on His Terms.

BTW, today is DIVINE MERCY SUNDAY

Jesus desires everyone to trust in Him.

He said it hurts Him deeply when we refuse to turn to Him when we sin.

That was Judas' 2nd sin (after betraying Jesus).

Judas and Peter both sinned and were sorry for their sins.

But ONLY Peter trusted in Jesus for repentance.

Mercy is Jesus' 2nd Name.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/8/18


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KATHR. Well said.

JOHN9346. Jesus took away the sin of the world (John 1:29) having died on the cross to do so.
And its up to each person to make that decision to accept this salvation by entering into Christ to be covered by his sinlessness, righteousness, holiness.

The sin the world is convicted of now is unbelief in Jesus Christ (John 16:9).
---Haz27 on 4/7/18


Kathr: Again, if I have enough bread to feed the whole world, does not mean no one will starve. If the requirement is for YOU to take possession of the bread I have promised you already given you.... then hopefully ALL will take possession of it. I wont force feed any bread down your throat.//

EXCELLENT!

I don't agree with you much on CN, but that statement above is WELL SAID.

That is exactly how Jesus offers His Salvation.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/7/18


John, I don't believe Samuel said God must save everyone. Why do you keep leaving mans part out?

Again, if I have enough bread to feed the whole world, does not mean no one will starve. If the requirement is for YOU to take possession of the bread I have promised you already given you.... then hopefully ALL will take possession of it. I wont force feed any bread down your throat.

Just as the promised land was already given to Israel, yet not all entered in...and not because God failed, but MAN did not do his part. It's all there in scripture John. God shows examples ...so why do you not get it. Hebrews 3 and 4 is just one. Is it because you don't understand the Gospel? That FAITH requires action. Hebrews 11
---kathr4453 on 4/7/18


barb ask, "What does it matter if I believe in predestination? Will it change anything if God has already decided my fate?"
---john9346 on 4/6/18


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samuelBB7 said, "The Holy Spirit wakes the dead and convicts them of sin and judgment. Then they must choose whether to accept Jesus or live in sin."

But the Holy Spirit writing through Paul disagrees with you see, Rom 3:10-12, 8:7-8, Eph 2:1-5. The Lord Jesus also disagrees with you Jn 6:37-39, 44-45.

Samuel, show us all in Scripture where does it state God must save everybody?

If Jesus died for everyone, then everyone would be save and in heaven right now...
---john9346 on 4/6/18


reuben ask, "But if he is still on earth and is spiritually dead , why can I not ask him/her if they want pizza?"

Because Dead People can not make a choice my friend...

According to Scripture Sinners are Spiritually Dead see, Eph 2:1-2, Rom 3:10-12, Rom 8:7-8, Jn 3:19-20, 6:44, and Col 2:13...
---john9346 on 4/6/18


Reuben, can we agree you wouldn't walk up to a dead man and ask him if he wants pizza for dinner correct?
---john9346 on 4/5/18

Correct, IF he is no longer walking on earth and is physically dead. But if he is still on earth and is spiritually dead , why can I not ask him/her if they want pizza?
---Ruben on 4/6/18


So richardC, using your dictionary, it would appear WHOSOEVER takes the mark of the beast...well, not good for their end. So why would God warn the WHOSOEVER only elect from taking the mark of the beast when they have no free will to take or not take?

No richardC scripture defines scripture. And you CANT then decide all the other verses that use WHOSOEVER that make your definition now mean something else, based on your whims, or some excuse of a typo or some other lame excuse.

Romans 10:9-10 don't use the word whosoever, however ALL are included. If you all are saved before you're saved, and are saved again...Romans 10:9-10 sound like God has schizophrenia, Or a LIAR.
---kathr4453 on 4/6/18


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Regarding RichardC's comment, yes the word in John 3:16 in the STRONGS means ALL. now for those who want to know if it means ALL THE FAITH, please go to your STRONGS and highlight every verse using that exact Greek word.

It's actually FUNNY, that in Revelation 13 ALL take the mark of the beast. The exact same Greek word for RichardC's definition of it meaning all the faith.

So all the faith, or all Calvinist's WILL take the mark of the beast.

Also highlight ALL verses and I think you will be humored for weeks and months to come.
---kath4454 on 4/6/18


Jesus knows everything, because he is God.
Jesus disciples said, Now are we sure that thou knowest all things John 16:30
Paul said, In [Christ] are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge Col 2:3
Every idle word, intents of the heart, and imaginations of the thoughts will be judged (Matt 12:36 Heb 4:12, 1 Chron 28:9).
The Lord Jesus Christ, is the divine Judge (Acts 17:31, John 5:22-23, Rom 14:10).
If Jesus doesn't know all things, then His judgment can be ruled a divine mistrial for not knowing all the facts.
The scripture, our apostle, and the judgment of all things declare that Jesus is God, and as such, knows all things!
---michael_e on 4/5/18


Whosoever : The Bible was written in Greek - And there is no Greek word for Whosoever , The Greek word there is

pa - ho - pisteuoon , Now This word Means - All the Faith - But in the English They use Whosoever . so people think it's everybody,

Check this out for yourselves !
---RichardC on 4/5/18


...John9346 on 4/5/18

Reuben can't but are you claiming God can't?
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/5/18

Nicole...that was BRILLIANT. God justifies the UNGODLY aka a dead man. They twist scripture stating God has to make one alive first and THEN Justifies him. To be made alive, one must be made alive IN CHRIST...and if that happens first....God would be justifying the regenerate, or new born, or new creature...who,is anything but UNGODLY.

So YES, God CAN talk to dead men, since all men DIED when Adam sinned...and no scripture supports anyone being regenerated first..

Ephesians clearly say...AFTER WE BELIEVE we were sealed with the Holy Spirit....that IS your deposit of inheritance aka the NEW BIRTH or regeneration.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/18


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Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


God gave sinners the ability to CHOOSE LIFE OR DEATH.

Now please find a verse that states sinners can't CHOOSE life or death...

If you can't back it up...then shut up.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/18


***Reuben, can we agree you wouldn't walk up to a dead man and ask him if he wants pizza for dinner correct?---john9346 on 4/5/18

Reuben can't but are you claiming God can't?
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/5/18


For GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believieth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The Holy Spirit wakes the dead and convicts them of sin and judgment. Then they must choose whether to accept Jesus or live in sin.

GOD knows who will do this. But he does not force people to be saved. Nor does he set up a people who he hates for making them lost sinners.

If a person has no choice they have no responsibility.

Is it right to punish a person for what they cannot help? Go to a handicapped child. Would you beat them because they cannot read?
---Samuelbb7 on 4/5/18


John9346, I certainly do believe that Jesus is God and that is why I live, breath and trust in His teaching. His words in John 12:42-50 tell us just how important it is to believe in His testimony. Also see Matt 7:21-29 and then ask yourself if Paul agrees with Him.

What does it matter if I believe in predestination? Will it change anything if God has already decided my fate?



---barb on 4/5/18


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reuben ask, "Sinners can not choose what?"

Sinners can not choose God...

Reuben, can we agree you wouldn't walk up to a dead man and ask him if he wants pizza for dinner correct?
---john9346 on 4/5/18


"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation, so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto."

LBC 1689 par 3
---john9346 on 4/5/18


Sinners can not choose they are Spiritually Dead according to Scripture...
---john9346 on 4/4/18

Sinners can not choose what?
---Ruben on 4/5/18


John, Ok let's take this one step further. Romans states God JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY. Yet Calvinism teaches that before one is Justified, one is rebirthed or regenerated to believe, and then given faith so that that faith justifies them, because an ungodly person is incapable of faith..which would not categorize them as UNGODLY but Godly.

So just that one verse alone totally collapses the TULIP. And many Lutherans I know believe one can lose their salvation.....which would be an oxymoron when it comes to no free will doctrine. Are you saying that God wills one to salvation and then Will's is away leaving the poor Lutherans at an even worse disadvantage than the Calvinist?
---kathr4453 on 4/5/18


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John, Martin Luther was not an Apostle or called by God to write scripture. He just a person taught by man who was brainwashed like so many until one day while reading alone had a personal moment of understanding justification by faith alone, after reading Romans 4 and 5...

Please site where and WHEN Luther made that statement....was it before or after his revelation on Justification by faith alone? Because Justification by faith alone ALSO refutes the TULIP. Justification by faith alone also believes in free will.

Lutherens are not Calvinist's.
---kathr4453 on 4/4/18


barb said, "John9346, Jesus does not disagree with me but He does disagree with Paul. I have done nothing but quote His words and His explanation of them."

Ma'am, listen to what you are saying so the Lord Jesus chose, appointed, and taught Paul and then he disagrees with what he told Paul???

In regards to Jn6 the Lord Jesus disagrees with you because you said the Lord Jesus has not predestine anyone to salvations this is false according to the Lord Jesus's Words Jn 6:37, 44-45, 64-65, 70 Jn 17:1-9, Jn 18:6-10.
---john9346 on 4/4/18


Barb,

Just so I understand do you believe Jesus is God?
---john9346 on 4/4/18


Martin Luther said, "Free-will is an empty term, whose reality is lost. And a lost liberty, according to my grammar, is no liberty at all."

Sinners can not choose they are Spiritually Dead according to Scripture...
---john9346 on 4/4/18


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Markv, Luke, Lisa, Just because God KNOWS something does not mean He preprogrammed it making us robots. What God predestined before the foundation of the world was the Death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and for that sacrifice, God made the gift of a bride to Jesus, and the Bride, taken out of Jesus side, ( Ephesians 5-6) the MYSTERY is shown right in the beginning of Genesis as a TYPE and SHADOW of the CHURCH. And during THIS AGE, the CHURCH is being knit together, being conformed to His Image. And WHO SO EVER WILL believes can be JOINED together with Christ during this unique time called GRACE. It's all in Ephesians if you care to read MORE than one verse. Read ALL of Ephesisns....beginning to end...it's all there.
---kathr4453 on 4/4/18


John9346, Jesus does not disagree with me but He does disagree with Paul. I have done nothing but quote His words and His explanation of them.

Please read slowly and carefully beyond John 6:39. There is much more in John 6 to learn and to understand than first meets the eye.
---barb on 4/3/18


barb said, "God knows the end from the beginning but that does not mean He has predestined us to salvation."

But the Holy Spirit writing through Paul says otherwise, "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren,"

Also the Lord Jesus disagrees with you in Jn 6:37-39...

said
---john9346 on 4/3/18


Luke chria9396 has answered you well. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2Pe 3:9
---josef on 4/1/18


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Luke, God knows all.

Rm 8: 19-25,29-:

the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,

the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together,not only[they], but ourselves also,...

waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

vs 29 whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son,
---chria9396 on 3/31/18


God knows the end from the beginning but that does not mean He has predestined us to salvation. Jesus' sheep are no surprise to God. His sheep know Him and He knows them. Why do they know Him? John 6:44-51. "and they shall all be taught of God. Every man that has heard and learned of the Father comes unto me." If you have taken the time to learn and know the Father, you will recognize the Son.

God is waiting for the gospel of the kingdom to be preached throughout the world so that everyone will hear it and then the end will come. Matt 24:14. The gospel of the kingdom is the testimony/words of Jesus that He gave to His eyewitness disciples who wrote them down so that we could read and learn the truth. John 18:37.
---barb on 3/31/18


Where did you get this notion, Luke?

God doesn't live in time, so He can't "wait" for anything to happen in the future.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/30/18


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