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God's Spokesperson

What qualifies a person to be God's spokesperson?

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 ---Steveng on 4/7/18
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We speak for God by being kind and loving people.
---Johnny74 on 9/9/18


What did Paul mean by 2 Tim 2:15?
2 Tim 2:14 says there were contentions about words from God that subverted the hearers and destroyed their faith.
Pauls command to rightly divide the word of truth intended to rescue men from subversion, putting them in remembrance.
Apparently the remembrance of Pauls gospel.
2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel
They were to remember that Paul was appointed the apostle of the Gentiles, and were to continue in what they learned from him ( 2 Tim 1:11-13).
Paul endured much trouble in preaching the mystery of the gospel committed unto him by the Lord (1 Tim 1:11, 1 Cor 9:17, Eph 6:19-20).
---michael_e on 5/21/18


How can one STRIVE to rightly divide the word of truth unless one first Study it? I can't strive to be a rocket scientist unless I study rocket science. Reading comic books about rockets going into space will not achieve that goal.
---kathr4453 on 5/21/18


michael e, the word "study" in Tudor/Jacobean diction did not mean academic application, but to strive.

Happy Pentecost.
---Cluny on 5/20/18


Water is ALWAY necessary in baptizing someone. Even the 12 Apostles knew this rule.

Even the Ethiopian realized he needed water.

Acts 8:36-39
and the eunuch said, "Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptized?"

Meaning everything was present for his baptism.

Even Paul had to be baptized after his conversion.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/20/18




We are living in the dispensation of Gods grace where Jesus gave instructions to Paul that are more excellent for us than instructions in other dispensations (Phil 1:10, Eph 3:2) .
Jesus instructions to Paul revealed a mystery not known before in other ages (Col 1:26, Eph 3:5). This dispensation of Gods instructions was the last given and must be rightly divided from others (1 Cor 15:8).
Failure to rightly divide the mystery information given to Paul (Rom 16:25) from the prophecy (Acts 3:21) given to Gods prophets since the world began produces doctrinal confusion (2 Tim 2:7).

Dont take my word for it. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).
---michael_e on 5/19/18


Someone sent me this quotation from the local Latin Rite Bishop of Rom. It seems germane to this discussion, Michael e.

\\Baptism is not repeated because it imprints an indelible spiritual sign: This sign is never erased by any sin, though sin prevents baptism from bringing the fruit of salvation, the pope said during his May 9 general audience.\\

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/10/18


\\Acts 10:44 They received the Holy Ghost before water baptism.
Apparently water wasn't necessary.\\

And that's why St. Peter and his companions said, "Praise God! They've got the Spirit. Our work here is done, and we can go to the next town."

Right?

\\ Paul wasn't sent to baptize.(1 Cor 1:17)\\

I've already dealt with this.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/8/18


//And it's done with water, by which the Holy Spirit is given..//
Not always
Acts 2:38 They received the Holy Ghost after water baptism
Acts 10:44 They received the Holy Ghost before water baptism.
Apparently water wasn't necessary.
Pauls writings alone give us instructions from the risen Lord today, no one before Paul knew of the grace of God through the secret kept hidden from the foundation of the world.
Contrary to the instructions for the apostles in other dispensations, Paul wasn't sent to baptize.(1 Cor 1:17)
The reason Paul wasn't sent to water baptize was because it would make of no effect the cross of Christ.
---michael_e on 5/7/18


Conveniently stop ? Not so - Been blame for this before on things, more to short of space at the time, or I think I gave enough info for conversation

So in your mind everyone who has been baptism in water and there children will be saved ? Then why do we hear about - tares in the Church - people falling way?

I will end this way - Act 2:39 - even as Many as the Lord our God shall call.
Who is this address to ? One side says Everybody , Another side says, The many who are call are Gods Elect ,

Christ loses nothing
---RichardC on 5/7/18




\\Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto Them, Repent, and baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the Remission of sins, and ye shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit . \\

I noticed you conveniently stopped short of the next verse: "For this promise is to you AND TO YOUR CHILDREN, and as many as God shall call, both far and near."

All the Eastern Churches normally baptize by triple immersion. This includes children.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/18


==1 Cor 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, ...." ==

Of course ST. Paul did not normallly baptize (though he did baptize a few people).

Baptism would normally have been administered by the local presbyters (whence the English word "priest" though the Middle English form "prester) or bishops.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/18


Now in the RCC One is baptized in water as a infant,

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: But he that Believeth not shall be damned.

( Maybe a infant will believe when they get older ? , Maybe not ? )


Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto Them, Repent, and baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the Remission of sins, and ye shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit .

( Now does everybody who is Baptize in water save ? The answer would have to be no, Hence - Wheat and tares - Falling away - )
---RichardC on 5/5/18


//And it's done with water, by which the Holy Spirit is given.//
The ministry to the nation of Israel has several baptisms.
The revelation of the mystery given to Paul cites one baptism
Eph 4:5 "one baptism"
1 Cor 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, ...." .
When we become a believer, we are immersed into the body of Jesus Christ. Since we are in Him and He did rise from the dead, every believer rose with Him.
1 Cor 12:13 says, For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body ...." This passage doesn't speak of baptism into water by a man, but baptism into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Gal 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ"
---michael_e on 5/5/18


\\Eph 4:5 "..ONE BAPTISM.."\\

And it's done with water, by which the Holy Spirit is given..

You seem to think that water baptism just gets a person wet. This idea is wrong in so many ways, I don't know where to begin.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/4/18


michael_e:

You wrote: //The dispensationalist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus. You take us OUT of this world//
When did you ever hear this prayer being prayed?


I don't see this referenced here, but a Google search shows one other instance of this question: you asking Cluny what he meant on 4/13/2018 in the John Darby Rapture blog, so I'll repeat the answer I gave there:

I all too often read news stories that quote war-mongering Christian politicians and preachers who actually say they WANT World War 3 to happen, which will bring on the Apocalypse, so they can be raptured out of it.

Such thoughts are not new. Even Jesus at Gethsemane prayed, "take this cup away from me".
---StrongAxe on 5/4/18


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\\Baptism has become synonymous with water baptism, but baptism doesn't mean water.Yes, it does.//
Would you give me a glass of baptism please?
Eph 4:5 "..ONE BAPTISM.."
1 Cor 12:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body.."
The holy spirit places us into the boC.

BTW did you hear this or make it up?
//The dispensationalist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus. You take us OUT of this world//
When did you ever hear this prayer being prayed?
---michael_e on 5/4/18


\\Even the Didache states by immersion when possible.\\

Orthodoxy agrees.

But common sense tells you that there are unusual circumstances, such as in extremis, where triple immersion is impossible.

In these exceptional cases, one comes as close to triple immersion as conditions permit.

And there is more than one way of immersion something or someone.

I know of one case in a mission where the baptizand knelt in a large tub of water as deeply as possible, while large quantites of water were poured (three times) over her.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/3/18


Correct Cluny it does require water. It should also be immersion since that shows it is burial. Plus the Greek word points to immersion.

Even the Didache states by immersion when possible.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 5/3/18


]]Absolutely, but not with water. \\

Wrong.

\\Baptism has become synonymous with water baptism, but baptism doesn't mean water.]]

Yes, it does.

Otherwise, how could the APOSTLES (mere humans) baptize, as Jesus commanded them?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/3/18


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//Baptism is essential.//
Absolutely, but not with water. Baptism has become synonymous with water baptism, but baptism doesn't mean water.
Baptism into Christ is identification with Christ. We become crucified with Christ without ever touching water (Gal 2:20).
There is only one baptism Paul says is necessary in the church, and it doesn't include water or a priest to perform it. It is performed by the operation of God when we believe the gospel of the death and resurrection of Christ (Eph 4:5 Col 2:12)
There are many examples in the Bible, and the one baptism you need does not require a single drop.
---michael_e on 5/2/18


Ephesians 4:5 - One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism.

Matthew 3:11 - I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I , Whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy spirit and fire,

{ Question ? The Bible Talks about Two Baptisms - One Water - One Spirit - which one Saves ? }
---RichardC on 5/1/18


\\Strongaxe, Christ and the apostles didn't need a building or assets to spread God's word. Spreading God's word is as easy as meeting someone on the street just as Jesus met the woman at the well.\\

Steveng, there is more to Christian worship than "spreading God's word...", though you may not be able to grasp this.

In any case, in the Gospels and Acts, Jesus and the Apostles did NOT hesitate to use buildings. The Temple, synagues, and the school of Tyrranus immediately come to mind.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/2/18


\\Baptism is essential. Some say full immersion, some say only sprinkling, and some say baptism is not necessary. \\

FWIW, in the Latin rite of the Roman Catholic Church, baptism is administered by POURING, not by sprinkling.

In Orthodoxy, baptism is normally administered by triple immersion: once for each Person in the Trinity.

If this is impossible, we come as close as we can.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/1/18


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Steveng:

2000 years ago was not heavily regulated. Most preaching was outdoors. Today, you need permits to meet on public lands because it might disrupt traffic and other groups may also want the space on a first come first serve basis. On private property, it requires permission of the owner, and it's an asset.
The Sermon on the Mount would be impossible in today's America without land and permits, and pre-planning for food, water, security, port-a-potties, etc.

Yes, you can talk to family, friends, and strangers, but that is sharing the gospel. Paul also said to not forsake assembling, and assembling means groups. Revelation churches were to one per city, not one per household.
---StrongAxe on 5/1/18


Strongaxe, Christ and the apostles didn't need a building or assets to spread God's word. Spreading God's word is as easy as meeting someone on the street just as Jesus met the woman at the well. Spreading God's word is as simple as talking with family, friends and acquaintances - even strangers. And it doesn't cost a cent.


Luke, the true church of Christ, the "real" church, ARE the christians (the worldwide group of people who believe in Jesus), not a building or a denomination that a person must "belong" to.

By the way, I taught at many denominational "churches" throughout the United States because I was asked - and I rarely turn down a teaching opportunity for over forty years.
---Steveng on 5/1/18


Steveng, it is easy for you to speak against the Church since you do not belong to one. I mean a real Church. You meet in peoples houses, and gather around and play games and look for reason to blame the real Church. You even taught at a real Church.
You are hypercritical. You come on and write post just to condemn the real churches. You should be ashamed of yourself, and should ask God to forgive you.
---Luke on 5/1/18


Steveng:

You wrote: Christ's true church does NOT need a non-profit status. Nor do they need worldly assets made by man to believe in Jesus.

True, but if you want to have a building where believers can meet as a group, you either need to own a building (an asset), or have funds (an asset) to rent space. Even a web site like this one requires money (an asset) to pay for web hosting.

Salvation is free. Everything else costs money.
---StrongAxe on 5/1/18


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Plus the fact denominational "churches" are becoming politically correct in order to keep their non-profit status.
---Steveng on 4/30/18


Strongaxe wrote: "There IS unity in the essentials."

Baptism is essential. Some say full immersion, some say only sprinkling, and some say baptism is not necessary.

But NOT unity in ALL thought. Even Satan has unity in essentials.

Strongaxe wrote: "The best you can say is "many"."

One does not need to look at ALL denominations, but the laws of that particular country concerning non-profit issues - and there are only 195 countries. Any organization connected to the government "belongs" to the government.

Christ's true church does NOT need a non-profit status. Nor do they need worldly assets made by man to believe in Jesus.
---Steveng on 4/29/18


Steveng:

You wrote: Every denominational is different each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, interpretations of the bible, name, organization, worship, baptism, and plan of salvation.

Yes, but how many of these differences are in ESSENTIAL things? Almost all of them agree in all of the specific things you yourself posted. There IS unity in the essentials.

all denominations will jump through hoops to keep their non-profit status even to the point of compromising the Words of God.

Unless you can definitely say this for every single denomination in the word (and I doubt if you've actually studied all 65000+), you can't say "all". The best you can say is "many".
---StrongAxe on 4/28/18


Strongaxe ,
Every denominational is different each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, interpretations of the bible, name, organization, worship, baptism, and plan of salvation. Where is the unity? Where is the one in thought? Is God pleased by dividing christiandom up into over a whole lot more than sixty-five thousand denominations?

Besides, all denominations will jump through hoops to keep their non-profit status even to the point of compromising the Words of God.
---Steveng on 4/28/18


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Steveng:

The differences between what different Christian denominations teach are primarily in minor things, not essential things - much as the difference between different human "races" are mostly cosmetic. Unless one calls the other heretics or breaks fellowship over these things, they are not important.

Re: Romans 16:17

"Those who cause division" are ones who divide the body of Christ - e.g. say "I'm Christian, but you aren't". Some schismatic denominations and many pseudo-Christian cults teach that. These are divisive as this verse says.

Think about this. People who say "All so-called Christians in denominations aren't REAL Christians" are doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
---StrongAxe on 4/28/18


Strongaxe wrote: "You frequently attack others for being "denominational",.."

Didn't Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders during his time? What does the bible say about denominations?

1 Corinthians 1:10-13
Romans 16:17
Ephesians 4:4-5
1 Corinthians 12:12-31
1 Corinthians 3:4-7
Matthew 12:25

Strongaxe wrote: "...yet seldomg offer specific alternatives."

If you read what I posted for years as you claim you did you would also have read what I posted what the bible says - wherever two or more are gathered...
---Steveng on 4/26/18


Steveng:

Thanks for your answer. I am only going by what I have seen you post on these blogs for years. You frequently attack others for being "denominational", yet seldomg offer specific alternatives.

As far as attacking spelling and grammar, I typically don't call attention to it, except:
1) If someone makes the same error consistently and repeatedly, I may mention it in passing (as FYI rather than criticism).
2) If the spelling or grammar are so bad that they make the message unintelligible, I ask for clarification.
3) If someone specifically attacks another's spelling or grammar, or boasts of their own spelling and grammar being correct, even if it isn't, they make it a legitimate subject for discussion.
---StrongAxe on 4/24/18


Strongaxe,

You, as well as most others, assume way too much about a lot of things including my intents.

First, I'm not on this sites every day like most people. I do have a real life to live.

Second, the questions I post are asked by others in my area. I usually post them the same day I'm asked to find what others on this site think. I then spend several weeks of prayer, bible study, and asking other people.

People should stick with the questions instead of attacking the messenger: from misspelt words and improper grammar to attacking the person.

By the way, I did find the answer: "holiness of character" and "soundness in doctrine." 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1 and 1 Peter 5.
---Steveng on 4/24/18


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Steveng:

You have asked the question. Most such questions that you ask here seem to be loaded questions, specifically framed so you can attack other people's ideas, condemning them as "denominational".

Since you asked the question, and seem to have an answer that you expect, why don't you tell us YOUR answer first?
---StrongAxe on 4/24/18


It appears that of all the denominational "church" leaders that I've known during the past 46 years agree that one or more of the following qualifications are often the prerequisite of deciding who will or who will not be a church leader or teacher: secular education,formal denominational education, influence in the community, musical ability - and even money.

What qualifications does your denomination "church" include?

The bible emphasizes two qualifications. What are they?
---Steveng on 4/23/18


What qualifies a person to be God's spokesperson?


Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.



---jerry6593 on 4/22/18


Mark and StrongAxe, you both are so right.

I have been warned so many times. Many stories of protection due to listening to the Angel sent by God or His Spirit.

Once I was driving on a 3 lane interstate. I had a strong warning to move out of the passing lane. I ignored the warning making excuses as if I was making up the warning because I wanted get home quicker.

Within minutes after the warning 3 cars in front of me slammed on their brakes. We all went into the outer side lanes safely.

I apologized to God for not heeding His warning and thanked Him for showing me mercy.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/21/18


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Mark_Eaton:

You wrote: Some people are delusional.

Exactly! Unfortunately, such people usually don't know they are delusional.

And rhemas are not given with timing, so perhaps this information is for the future or for warning.

Not always. Sometimes one gets a sudden feeling "I should go outside now", and when outside, their house suddenly catches fire (or similar). Such feelings are definitely time-related.

When I was moving cross-country to Phoenix, I considered stopping for the night in Albuquerque, but had a feeling it would be better to drive an hour further to Gallup. The next morning news had a story about a gang of bandits that had robbed motels in Albuquerque that night.
---StrongAxe on 4/12/18


This means that these are NOT "rhemas from God", but actually either self-delusion, or messages from some other source.
---StrongAxe on 4/10/18

Some people are delusional.

I always tell people when you hear a voice in your head it can be one of four things: it may be from God, it may be from yourself, it may be from your enemy, and it may be from the world. We need to test these voices to see if they are of God. Everything else not from God should be dismissed. Especially from yourself, it is likely selfish in nature.

But rhemas are for the people who hear them, not to be given to other people. And rhemas are not given with timing, so perhaps this information is for the future or for warning.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/12/18


Cluny..Again you hit the nail on the head. Steveng always posts questions where he can lift himself up instead of God.
---KarenD on 4/10/18


Mark_Eaton:

You wrote: Whenever anyone says "God said to me" it is a rhema from God. But, I also believe the rhema is for the hearer only, not for others.

Many times, such people make global pronouncements they claim God told them - and many times these conflict with other things God has told other people. This means that these are NOT "rhemas from God", but actually either self-delusion, or messages from some other source.

(I am not saying that some people don't receive rhemas from God, only that not ALL such messages are legitimate).
---StrongAxe on 4/10/18


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Well the GIFT of PROPHESY is speaking for God. It is reiterating what God has already spoken, and many have this GIFT that only comes in the Power of the Holy Spirit and Christ in you. Ephesisns 4 list those GIFTS. This GIFT is not PROPHECY...SPELLED WITH A "C". That one means telling future events. NO ONE today has that. Everything we need to know is in scripture. These are SPIRITUAL Gifts. These are only given to those IN CHRIST.

So Nicole and Josef are correct according to scripture. NOW only those IN CHRIST can hear them as well, as these words are SPIRITUALLY discerned. The natural man cannot hear the things of the Spirit. Also we are to TEST the Spirits to make sure these words are from God.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/18


I constantly cringe whenever I hear this preacher say "God told me this" or "God told me that" or "God told me to tell you this", etc...
---StrongAxe on 4/10/18

I think it is actually much simpler than that.

When Jesus told the devil in the temptation "man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" He was not speaking of Scripture. The Greek word for "word" in that verse is rhema, the spoken word not the written word.

I believe we hear the rhema of God constantly. Whenever anyone says "God said to me" it is a rhema from God. But, I also believe the rhema is for the hearer only, not for others.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/10/18


You don't actually think that YOU are such, do you, Steveng?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/10/18


Mark_Eaton:

I thoroughly agree. I constantly cringe whenever I hear this preacher or that say "God told me this" or "God told me that" or "God told me to tell you this", etc. So frequently, such statements contradict each other (meaning that either God is schizophrenic, or a liar, or he didn't actually say those things). I think it's much more charitable to think of such people as deluded or narcissistic, rather than calling them false prophets and demanding they be stoned (as the O.T. demands). The apocalypse date setters are other examples of this. I may get insights that I believe I get from God, but I don't presume to tell others that they ARE from God, because I could be wrong.
---StrongAxe on 4/10/18


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Mark I could be mistaken, only Steveng can clarify what he meant by his question.
---Josef on 4/10/18


I understood Steveng's use of spokesperson to mean one who speaks His word through the inspiration He provides...
---Josef on 4/10/18

I took it to mean a spokesperson who speaks for another person, say the POTUS, who knows the intimate thoughts of the person being spoken for.

We do have the mind of Christ but in spiritual matters. We do not know the intimate workings or timing of God.

If sharing God's word is being a spokesperson, then I am one and so are all of the people in these blogs. However, even if we share God's word with others, we cannot and must not speak about God's timing, purposes, or thoughts.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/10/18


Mark I understood Steveng's use of spokesperson to mean one who speaks His word through the inspiration He provides. And by His word we, as believers, have the mind of Christ. 1Co 2:16>Jhn 16:13-15 I for one believe that simply because it is written. If that make me gullible, then I will be gullible with faith. And Mark, how do we make disciples if not by sharing His word?
---Josef on 4/10/18


The fact that the church exists and has a leadership hierarchy shows that some kind of leaders and spokesmen are still needed.
---StrongAxe on 4/9/18

A spokesperson for God is needed only in the mind of the world.

The church is not a spokesperson for God, Jesus, or the Trinity. We do not know the mind of God and cannot speak for God.

We can only speak our testimony, our experiences, and what is contained in the Bible. However, speaking about the Bible has brought us many issues, too numerous to list.

The church should strive to make disciples, and leave the speaking in private.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/9/18


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Mark_Eaton:

You wrote: Nothing. God does not need a spokesperson.

Technically, that is true (i.e. God does not "need" anything or anyone). However, it is not a useful answer, and it does not answer the blog's question.

Regardless of whether God actually NEEDS spokespersons, he has frequently used them in the past. The fact that the church exists and has a leadership hierarchy (described in the New Testament) shows that some kind of leaders and spokesmen are still needed.
---StrongAxe on 4/9/18


What qualifies a person to be God's spokesperson?
---Steveng on 4/7/18

Nothing. God does not need a spokesperson.

God's one and only Son was all the spokesperson they need. Jesus said He did not speak on his own behalf, but on the Father who sent Him (John 12:49).

We are to boast in our God (1 Cor. 1:31) and to overcome by the word of our testimony and the blood of the Lamb (Rev. 12:11).
---Mark_Eaton on 4/9/18


True Strong axe, therefore Isaiah was instructed to "Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself, and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." So the question is what is the law and testimony? I believe that law to be love and that testimony to be the testimony of Jesus, both of which can be found in the pages of scripture. So it is for us to be like those in Berea, and search the Scriptures daily to find out whether what is being spoken is truly the "word of God". If we do that, we can indeed know, by the Spirit of God, who speaks for God.
---Josef on 4/9/18


Josef and Nicole_Lacey:

Unfortunately, we don't have an objective way to determine if other people (or even we) are submitted to God, or receiving messages from the Holy Spirit and not a deceiving spirit. That there are many self-styled spokesmen for God who all teach wildly contradictory messages, yet who earnestly believe that they are right, demonstrates this.

This is why the Bible had a specific litmus test for prophets. Normal people didn't have any easy way to tell if a prophet was false or not either, but there were two sure-fire signs that they were false: if they made future predictions that did not come true, or if they told people to follow other gods.
---StrongAxe on 4/8/18


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"What qualifies a person to be God's spokesperson?" Having a mind, attitude and disposition that has been opened to a willingness to submit to Him by His lead without protest, that He might speak without hinderence.
---Josef on 4/8/18


Being filled with the Holy Spirit and saying ONLY what and when the Holy Spirit tells you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/7/18


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