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Seamless Pro-Life Stance

I'm thinking and praying about the implications of a seamless pro-life ethic.

I've already decided that capital punishment is contradictory with this. (Objections ignored.)

But now I'm wondering if unlimited access to firearms is antithetical to a pro-life position.

Any thoughts?

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 ---Cluny on 5/2/18
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AXE. Just repeating the deceitful Lefts false allegations is not proof.

The Left do same in Australia falsely alleging neo Nazi links to Conservative politicians, without any proof.

As for your interpretation of CRA figures, this contradicts the info from the likes of Prof Swain (herself black) of Vanderbilt Uni.

All you ever do is repeat the Lefts false allegations and claim that this is proof. Sorry Axe, but thats absurd.

As for NAZI Lefts invasion of Communist Left Russia, thats no different to Sunni Islam versus Shia Islam. Its family infighting for dominance, over small differences in ideology.

You will never be able to shake off the NAZI, KKK, slavery, racist record of the Leftists you support.
---Haz27 on 5/18/18


Naz27:

When white supremacists and neo-nazis run for political office, they ALWAYS run as Republicans. I mentioned 4 in an earlier post.

You keep calling Nazis left, but they were totalitarian and RIGHT of center. If Hitler loved Marxism so much, why did he invade Russia, the only Marxist state at the time?

I provided ACTUAL NUMBERS about the votes for the CRA (which you have yet to refute. I'm still waiting...), but you wouldn't believe facts that differed your own narrative even if an angel from heaven came and personally whacked you over the head with them.
---StrongAxe on 5/17/18


AXE. Be honest for once. Big switch is a big lie as all but ONE (Strom Thurman) Dixiecrat remained with DEMs.
KKK was terrorist arm of DEMs, and whilst they're an insignificant group today they're not aligned with either political party now, contrary to the big lies from Left's Fake News, etc.
NAZIs were in fact Socialist Left. Hitler's Mein Kampf reflecting Hitler's admiration for Marxism. NAZIs were even inspired by various DEMs ideals, although they found DEMs too racist for NAZI standards.
As for poverty, the DEMs are for that with their welfare dependency lure. Plenty of long term DEMs run cities prove that.

But you have not provided any facts/proof for your allegations. All you ever do is repeat DEMs propaganda lies.
---Haz27 on 5/17/18


Haz27:

You wrote: AXE. I exposed your false allegations about the Big Switch, KKK, REPs want to starve the poor, 2nd Amendment, etc.

Yes, you RESPONDED to them - by just denying them. You didn't PROVE anything by actually providing any hard-core FACTS, as I had done.

And yet again, your last message had four paragraphs - one that actually dealt with what was being said, and three that were merely parroting attacks on the left - 25% substance, 75% attacks.
---StrongAxe on 5/16/18


AXE. I exposed your false allegations about the Big Switch, KKK, REPs want to starve the poor, 2nd Amendment, etc.

You consistently repeat the Left's propaganda lies, believing them to be somehow true (as Yuri Bezmaonov said you would).

And as the Left dominate the megaphones of society (Hollywood, media, universities, politics, Google, Facebook, etc) then nobody can match their reach and ability to deceitfully abuse and persecute others.

Conservatives are now beginning to stand up against the abusive Left's decades long oppressive PC tyranny, and you don't like it that your political side is now being exposed for it's lies and bullying.
---Haz27 on 5/16/18




Correction, illigitimate Protestant babies. And this being in Ireland where the hate factor was/ and maybe still is extreme more than anywhere between Catholics and Protestants .....would possibly think of illigitimate Protestant babies as nothing more than a turd.
---kathr4454 on 5/16/18


The real issue Cluny is the CC did not baptize illegitimate babies. Maybe now they do. And the CC BELIEF was that unbaptized babies did not go to heaven. I believe Francis changed that dogma??? So in respect to this horror,they were considered turds. Especially the Protestant illegitimate ones as Nicole so eloquently stated.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/18


Haz27:

I have been suggesting this to you for a long time - i.e. that you debate actual points with facts, rather than with empthy rhetoric flinging constant abuse at the left, and calling everyone on the left evil and heartless because they are all Marxists.

You don't like it when I attack conservatives by taking YOUR OWN WORDS and replacing "left" by "right" to show you just how abusive YOUR OWN WORDS are.

You keep claiming that you have "exposed all these lies" but you haven't, and the evidence that these so -called "lies" are actually the truth is overwhelming. You just don't want to see it because it hurts your "right=good left=evil" narrative.
---StrongAxe on 5/16/18


This was the general consensus Cluny of those who live in that area. These were children of all ages, not just fully unformed fetuses. Please stop making excuses. Even the Catholic Bishops were shocked when the news broke.

So is this how Catholic Hospitals still deal with infant death? Also there were illegal adoptions taking away live babies from the unwed mothers..who are still alive to tell about it.

Stop deflecting and minimizing this horrible thing.
---kathr4453 on 5/15/18


Thank you Cluny. I went back to read what I posted. I wasn't saying dead babies are baptized, although it could be interpreted that I said that. Every baby is baptized correct? These were not still borns, unborn fetuses..but infants of all ages...3 months 6 months etc. And if these became ill if that was the case after they were born, wouldn't THAT be reason to baptize before death? Or is that only provided to grown men and women on their death beds?

Either way, flushing any baby down the toilet like a turd is unacceptable.
---kath4454 on 5/15/18




AXE. We both know that your argument that you know better because you live in USA, is absurd. I suggest you debate points, relying on facts, instead of the Left's Fake News.

Your abusive attacks against Conservatives here typically come in the form of you repeating the Left's hateful, derogatory propaganda lies.

Your false allegations include KKK, NAZIs, The Big Switch, REPs want the poor to starve, etc. I've exposed all these lies, yet you still use most of them.

You're in no position to pull the Left's victim card tactic AXE.
---Haz27 on 5/15/18


This was said on another blog:

\\According to the Catholic belief, every baptized baby even one that died, gets baptized and a proper buriel.\\

If this poster is trying to say that the Roman Catholic Church baptizes dead babies, this is simply not true.

Nor do the cOrthodox hurches.

The Sacraments can be received ONLY by the living.

Both churches agree on this.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/18


Haz27:

You have proven nothing. You just make accusations out of thin air based on the Right's Fake News. That others agree with you doesn't prove you right. There are literally billions of Chinese who believe in atheism and communism. Should we automatically believe them because they have greater numbers?

The difference between how you and I argue on these blogs is that I denounce the evil that I see in the world, but I do NOT personally attack the people HERE on these blogs. I do not personally attack YOU. You, continuously attack anyone here who disagrees with you, especially ME.

You really need to get out of that Rightist echo chamber.
---StrongAxe on 5/15/18


It was a 7-2 decision. Four of the justices voting for the majority were REPUBLICANS (I just found out).///

So why can't hack Haz27 also report truth..

Now I'm wondering since Cluny showed it was Republicans who put it into law, just like a Republican appointed Justice voted for obamacare, if Haz27 will display another verbal attack calling Cluny a Marxist lefty for just stating truth. Or does Hack27 only bully women?
---kathr4453 on 5/15/18


AXE. I've proven you wrong on a number of issues in the US because you rely on the Left's Fake News. NICOLE, JERRY, etc, have even agreed with me that your views on USA are wrong.

I suggest you look at your own hate mongering here on CN. You constantly repeat the hateful lies from Leftist propaganda, and when confronted about it with facts to the contrary which expose the Left's evil, you then use the Left's victim card tactic.

You really need to get out of that Leftist echo chamber.
---Haz27 on 5/15/18


\\Roe vs. Wade was decided by the Supreme Court, not Democrats.\\

It was a 7-2 decision. Four of the justices voting for the majority were REPUBLICANS (I just found out).

haz, I was named in a $39 million lawsuit for merely praying silently across the street from the chop shops.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/18


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Haz27:

I live here. You don't. Your knowledge of the U.S. is not informed by personal experience, but by propaganda you hear on right-leaning media.

In Venuzuela, the elite sip champagne while the peasants starve. This is NOT socialism by its very definition.

I was talking about commitment to principles. Whoever created the environment is totally beside the point. Roe vs. Wade was decided by the Supreme Court, not Democrats.

As far as "hate mongering", the only person on these blogs who is spewing out hate with almost every single message is you. E.g. you are constantly attacking me personally based on abortion, even when it is not remotely related to the topic, and when you know I am against it.
---StrongAxe on 5/14/18


AXE. Your knowledge about US is flawed as you rely on Left's propaganda lies. The likes of NICOLE, JERRY, myself, etc have already proven this.

BTW, my previous post referred to the Socialist "utopia" (what many Leftists in USA thought it was prior to its eventual collapse into poverty, starvation, homeless children) of Venezuela.

Anyway, I guess your reply means you didn't like my issue about your support for the DEMs who created the legal environment that led to Cluny and your friend being sued/penalized for protesting for babies right to life.

It seems babies right to life, and the rights of Cluny and your friend to protest for babies lives, means less to you than your continued support for the DEMs.
---Haz27 on 5/14/18


Haz27, your comments are also moronic. If democrats preach the CROSS, point to SIN rather than blaming others for their own sin, as scripture clearly states....then I'm a proud democrat. I think you are stating Democrats are more spiritual than Republicans...since you continue to,call me a democrat. I'm not insulted. However, I will research how well grounded Democrats are spiritually, as we both must be in agreement that abortion goes against God. If this is what Democrats are saying...IM PROUD TO BE A DEMOCRAT.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/18


oh also Haz27, ive always been a republican, but its YOU who just won me over to the Democratic party. I had no idea how how Christ centered Democrate were until you kept telling me i was a democrat. Thank you for showing me that Democrats are more Bible centered than Republicans.

pat yourself on the back.
---kathr453 on 5/14/18


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Nicole_Lacey:

Bologna sandwiches? All prisons feed prisoners. You think he should win a medal for not starving them to death too?

Google: tent city deaths

Keeping prisoners is fine. Keeping them in a CONCENTRATION CAMP (Arpaio's own words) is not. Keeping them in tents at 145 degrees is not. 24% suicide rate is not. It's telling when a prison is SO INHUMANE that 1 in 4 would rather DIE than stay there. Suicide rates among slaves in the pre-civil-war south were MUCH lower. Draw your own conclusions.

Taxpayers paid over $140 MILLION in lawsuits over all those deaths.


Haz27:

Stop parroting propaganda about the U.S. that you know nothing about. Stick to ranting about Australia that you actually know.
---StrongAxe on 5/14/18


KATHR. You really need to find a way to cope better when confronted with facts you don't like.

Your latest allegation using one of the Left's favorites, THE RUSSIANS bogey man, only further proves how much the Left controls your mind.

Another clue of what's driving your bitterness is your allegation we're promoting Trump. If you check through my post replies, I mentioned Trump ONCE, to debunk SAMUEL's false allegation about him. NICOLE didn't mention Trump once in her list of replies.

Obviously the Left have so brainwashed you with a delusional hate for Trump that you fear he's being promoted even when he's not.

For your own sake KATHR, take a break from the hate mongering Left's Fake News.



---Haz27 on 5/14/18


Wow, so Nicole said she wishes men like Sheriff Joe were slave owners. SICK. We'd have seen women chanined to beds while giving birth. And she's fine with that.

But it really sounds like Nicole is carrying the anger of slavery here.....where many have gotten over that ....and she's still a prisoner in her mind, just as K West stated. And you said K West was addressing who...Democrats....because the Democrat blacks continue to carry their hatred, as you displayed here in your post? A double minded person you are.

You really ARE the Liberal Lefty in so many ways Nicole. Your words prove it. You're in denial of coarse, because someone told you to blame today's democrats...where actually yesterday's democrats were Republicans.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/18


Nicole, can't you read SWeety? OH NO! It's comprehension you have issues with...sorry.

I don't support anyone abusing anyone for any reason. What sickness in your mind made that equation? If someone is convicted of a crime, being incarcerated is his punishment....not some nut case REPUBLICAN playing God on top of that exercising his own sadistic twist to that person as well.

So why would your sick twisted mind make such a comment..except to ACT LIKE A TROLL, FOR THE SAKE OF GETTING A REACTION.

You really are a TROLL Nicole...and maybe a Russian bot or whatever. I think you are here to cause trouble and divide. No one is that STUPID...
---kathr4453 on 5/13/18


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The more I see Nicole and Haz27 posts, the more I believe they could be Russian trolls, just like those trolling Facebook, trying to divide, by this continual obsession of name calling and promotion of Trump , which is their purpose as well.

When exposed on one issue, saying Democrats are responsible for Cap Punishment because they love to murder....and PROVING IT A LIE, these two don't skip a beat...and still come at you with their lying propaganda garbage.

Please address YOUR FALSEHOOD first, or loose ALL CREDIBILITY with everything either of you say.

Or else get off CN, you don't belong here. CN...please check their IP ADDRESS.
---kath4453 on 5/13/18


StrongAxe: Despite many deaths deaths,//

What many deaths? BTW, you left out feeding them bologna sandwiches.

Kathr: Thanks Strongaxe, yes, that's the one. And THAT kind of treatment I totally oppose.//

Really? You being complaining that having Prisoners is wasting YOUR tax dollars? You should love Sheriff Joe

//This IS how slave masters treated slaves//

The Slaves would wish for such a treatment!

Slavery is a MEAN, HORRIBLE, LIVING CONDITION. Don't compare.

//they want to blame Democrats for implementing.//

For implementing?

Are you serious?

Implementing, keeping it and for FIGHTING AMERICA'S WORST WAR YET TO DATE TO KEEP IT!

Jerry is right about you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/13/18


KATHR. You will never be able to hide the fact that your Leftist DEMs puppet masters were the US political party that was the home of slavery and the KKK.

The fact that you so strongly defend today's heartless DEMs (the party for baby genocide), suggests that you would have even been a DEMs supporter back in it's KKK and slavery days had you been born 100 years ago.

AXE. Socialist Lefties create poverty and starvation through their welfare dependency lure.
Venezuela being one of the best, most recent examples. Parents are even abandoning their children their, leaving them to starve and fend for themselves, all thanks to the Socialist Left's populist welfare dependency lure.
---Haz27 on 5/13/18


Thanks Strongaxe, yes, that's the one. And THAT kind of treatment I totally oppose. I bet because Trump approves, so will Nicole and Haz. This IS how slave masters treated slaves they want to blame Democrats for implementing. What hypocrisy in their thoughts and lies. Even more amazing is how blind they are to their brainwashed mindset.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/18


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Nicole_Lacey:

Old or dying people?! REPUBLICANS want to cut social security, medicare, meals on wheels, so old people will starve and die.

I never said I don't want law-abiding citizens to have guns. Background checks ensure ONLY they will, but not criminals.


kathr4453:

Republican Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio was the toughest sheriff in America. He ran an outdoor jail with prisoners in tents with no heat in winter or AC in 120+ summer. Despite many deaths deaths, he BOASTED running a concentration camp.

He was very anti-immigrant, and profiled Latinos even after a judge told him to stop. He was found in criminal contempt of court, but his pal Trump pardoned him. He's now planning a run as an Arizona senator.
---StrongAxe on 5/13/18


Bush has presided over the executions of 111 men and 1 woman, far more than any other governor in any other state since the Supreme Court in 1976 allowed reinstatement of the death penalty. Texas leads the nation in putting inmates to death, in 1997 it executed 4 inmates in one week, 8 in one month and 37 for the year, all modern records.

George Bush had more executions than anyone ever ..a REPUBLICAN.

Again Nicole wants to make this a democrat murdering spree.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/18


Pew Resource Center, Less Support for Death Penalty, Especially Among Democrats (Apr. 16, 2015). Pew reported significant drops in support for the death penalty among all political affiliations between 1995 and 2015 (see the chart to the right), with declines of 31 and 22 percentage points among Democrats and Independents, respectively, and a 10 percentage-point drop in support for the death penalty among Republicans. As of March 2015, 77% of Republicans, 57% of Independents, and 40% of Democrats said they favored the death penalty. 17% of Republicans, 37% of Independents, and 56% of Democrats said they opposed capital punishment.

Please don't believe everything our LEFTY LIBERAL Nicole says, or believes. Here are the FACTS.
---kat4453 on 5/13/18


I believe the REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT GEORGE W BUSH, not only believes in the death penalty, but did not pardon the mother of 5 who killed her children. She was executed. And who was that Sheriff in Arizona Trump pardoned, who believes in the death penalty, and believed in HARSH treatment of prisoners.

So Nicole, the liberal left like yourself do not want to execute people. They have very LIBERAL LEFTY attitudes towards criminals.

I don't know who did a number on you, but you are WAY WRONG thinking liberals want the death penalty.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/18


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AXE. Your friend who was sent to prison, and Cluny being sued, simply for protesting in defense of babies lives, is all courtesy of the heartless and corrupt Left whose political power made it possible to penalize those doing right.

Thats the same Left that you, Kathr, Samuel, etc always support.
---Haz27 on 5/12/18


StrongAxe: It's easy to be magnanimous when it doesn't cost you anything.//

It is EVIL and pompous to try to play God when there isn't a need to kill someone.

Lefty people LOVE killing people when they are boxed in and unable to fight.

Babies in wombs. Old or dying people. People in a prison cell.

But you all DRAW the line when it comes to killing STRONG MEN causing HAVOC on law-abiding Citizens.

In fact that's why you all don't want law-abiding Citizens to have guns. It evens the odds.

//Catholic saints who were willing to be raped, killed, or worse, rather than to use violence.//

Not ONE Saint chose to be Rape! Name the Saint. In fact Angels have KILLED some Men for TRYING TO RAPE Saints.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/12/18


Nicole_Lacey:

No. However, your position is basically "I care about what happens someone else's soul, as long my own life isn't at risk". It's easy to be magnanimous when it doesn't cost you anything.

I'm NOT saying your position is wrong, or even that my own attitude would be different.

However, compare with early Christians who were willing to die rather than compromise their principles, or various Catholic saints who were willing to be raped, killed, or worse, rather than to use violence. Cluny was sued for protesting across from an abortion clinic. I have one friend who spent a lot of time in jail for doing the same. These are people who actually put their own security in jeopardy to uphold their principles.
---StrongAxe on 5/12/18


Kathr: Same with many violent crimes and criminals. And WHY should my tax dollars support these kinds of criminals? They get better healthcare and care than our poor. //

The true Kathr comes out.

Just like you don't want the baby to be born either. Kill them in the womb.

//YOUR attitude is that of a bleeding heart lefty...//

Castle rule isn't a bleeding heart lefty thing. You all hate it.

But I have long realized that Republicans are the ones who Truly care about the poor and unborn.

//OH so not everything is black and white is it.........and please, that is not referring to a racist comment.//

Not us Republicans, but to you Democrats you all will OUTLAW that saying claiming it's racists somehow.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/12/18


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Actually Nicole, that convicted man may have raped and murdered someone who didn't have that opportunity to blow his brains out. Just because he got away...and then arrested tried and convicted often times are not given life or the death penalty and DO IT AGAIN.

Same with many violent crimes and criminals. And WHY should my tax dollars support these kinds of criminals? They get better healthcare and care than our poor.


YOUR attitude is that of a bleeding heart lefty......so why are you a hypocrite in this area? OH so not everything is black and white is it.........and please, that is not referring to a racist comment.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/18


StrongAxe: YOUR OWN STATED BELIEF that capital punishment is wrong because it denies the convicted criminal a chance to repent is INCONSISTENT. You will give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has been arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced, and has had plenty of time to reflect, but feel free oK to deny the same benefit to someone who has NOT been arrested, tried, convicted or sentenced.//

AS ALWAYS YOU LEFT OFF WAY I WOULD NOT GIVE THE SAME BENEFIT

//yet a few seconds with a burglar IS more than enough. Which is God's timing?//

So I HAVE to ALLOW the Rapist RAPE ME????

ANSWER ME?

The convicted man CAN'T RAPE me, but the man in my HOUSE CAN RAPE ME!

WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/12/18


Keep those answers coming, folks.

I am greateful for them, and they are brining up things I have not considered.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/10/18


Haz27:

Yet another message that is 100% ad hominem attack, and 0% addressing actual issues at hand.


Nicole_Lacey:

I NEVER said that, and I repeatedly said I do NOT believe that.

I said YOUR OWN STATED BELIEF that capital punishment is wrong because it denies the convicted criminal a chance to repent is INCONSISTENT. You will give the benefit of the doubt to someone who has been arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced, and has had plenty of time to reflect, but feel free oK to deny the same benefit to someone who has NOT been arrested, tried, convicted or sentenced.

You feel that a year of appeal time for a criminal is not enough, yet a few seconds with a burglar IS more than enough. Which is God's timing?
---StrongAxe on 5/10/18


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Nicole, that's why I believe in the separation of church and state. And please don't forget in the OT under the Law ..it was the law to execute certain sins. Did God say...hay, put them in a holding tank UNTIL they repent. NO.

I don't know what you think repentance is Nicole, but many have a seered conscience who commit horrible crimes worthy of the death penalty. We keep these folks on Death row for YEARS before execution....

Child molesters/murders are my #1 on the list to execute.

Oh, how many Priests have actually REPENTED Gods way for molesting children? I believe they should all be lined up and SHOT. ....along with the rest who are guilty in that area.
---kathr4453 on 5/10/18


Cluny, here's the way I see it. If God had formed a woman with a firearm attached to her inner thigh, and she could shoot and kill instantly any man who tried to violate her, father, brother, uncle, stranger..etc , the issue of abortion for rape and incest would not exist. Someone would be dead though...and those someone's should be eliminated from the gene pool anyway.

So, today we have the right to protect ourselves against such assault, and if every woman had a gun with instant access, THAT issue of PROLIFE would be solved. There would be no issue.

So in that respect, your argument might be flawed.
---kath4453 on 5/10/18


Kathr, I am going by the post you and StrongAxe have written.

You both think because I am against capital punishment toward a criminal who no longer is a threat towards society MEANS I can't defend myself when I am attacked.

That is mean, rude, uncharitable, unchristian and dumb. But you are mad? Really? Who started this? First StrongAxe made that comment then you jumped on his bandwagon. But I have rot on my brain?

//I also believe in CAP punishment. The two can't be compared. By the time they are executed, they have had more than enough time to repent.//

Sooooo, God's time is too long for you?

He isn't moving FAST enough for you?

God can wait for his repentance, but not Kathr?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/9/18


AXE. Your false equivalences, etc are all aimed at maintaining the neo Marxist agenda to undermine the Constitution.

Russian KGB Communist defector Yuri Bezmanov was right saying that those brainwashed by the Left are unlikely to ever be red pilled back to reality, until it's too late when the Marxists install their totalitarian state and start executing or imprisoning those who then wake up to reality and start opposing what they once supported.

The fact that the likes of you, KATHR, SAMUEL can continue to defend the heartless Left in spite of their baby murder, their undermining of Constitution, hate for Christianity, etc, only proves how effective the Left's brainwashing and lies are in controlling you.
---Haz27 on 5/9/18


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I know you and Kathr hate this, but Americans are ALLOWED to defend oneself even by deadly force.

Why? Because there isn't any TIME for trial and jury.

I guess If you all don't have a problem with killing baby in the womb you won't care about a man in a cell.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/8/18

Nicole, how dare you assume I hate the idea of one defending themselves against deadly force. You have rot on the brain and have never actually read and comprehended anything I've ever said on the subject. I'm against abortion. I also believe in CAP punishment. The two can't be compared. By the time they are executed, they have had more than enough time to repent. And even if they had....THEY STILL HAVE TO OBEY THE LAWS OF THE LAND.
---kathr4453 on 5/9/18


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Here you are INNOCENT until proven guilty.

Which is why your wanting to save the life of a convicted criminal who has been PROVEN guilty, while being totally OK to shoot a burglar dead before he has been convicted of anything, makes absolutely NO SENSE whatsoever.
---StrongAxe on 5/9/18


Here you are INNOCENT until proven guilty.

A PERSON not criminal in a capital punishment case.... When a person is FOUND guilty. At that point as I said before the CRIMINAL is kept away from the public to protect the PUBLIC!

NOW we can focus the CRIMINAL'S soul.

The STATE (group) not a single person decides rather to kill the person.

When a burglar or RAPIST threaten your life. You have the RIGHT to SAVE YOUR LIFE BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE.

I can't reflect on his soul while he is trying to KILL ME! GOT IT?

I accuse you of worrying more about grown men because you ALWAYS bring up scenarios concerning them but I NEVER seen you do the SAME towards the unborn.

NEVER.

If you have my APOLOGIES
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/9/18


Ha27:

There are existing laws that require proper and safe storage of firearms to ensure that inapproproate people (e.g. children, felons, etc.) do not have access to them. Despite this, many children are injured or killed by improperly stored firearms, and/or injure or kill other children or adults. These are because adults either don't KNOW the gun laws (which would be fixed by mandatory education and testing to ensure that laws are known), or don't care (which would be fixed by taking firearm license away from people who cause firearm-related injuries or death, just as we take driving license away for DUIs and vehicular homicides.

Why must you use ad hominem attacks in almost EVERY SINGLE MESSAGE YOU POST here?
---StrongAxe on 5/9/18


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AXE. I'll use some of your own words to highlight the absurdity of your arguments.

Given how FAR, FAR more accidental injuries and deaths occur because cars are used improperly or stored improperly shows just how much proper car owner responsibility is lacking.
Many children die because their parents leave
cars accessible to kids, or even knives, roads, pools, dogs, household cleaners, boiling water, fuel, etc.

Be honest for once AXE and acknowledge that you are obediently pushing the well known neo Marxist agenda to undermine the Constitution.
---Haz27 on 5/8/18


Nicole_Lacey:

This whole argument is based on YOUR claim that capital punishment is wrong because a criminal might have repented later.

Your argument makes no sense. A criminal in a capital case has time for trial, sentencing, and appeal - yet you think that ISN'T enough time to repent. Yet a burglar you shoot dead in your home does NOT have any time for reflection - yet you think it's perfectly all right to execute him right on the spot, without any time to repent at all.

I guess If you all don't have a problem with killing baby in the womb you won't care about a man in a cell.

When have I EVER said I don't have a problem with killing a baby in the womb? Stop making up lies about me, you and Haz27 both!
---StrongAxe on 5/9/18


StrongAxe, A criminal is someone tried and FOUND guilty of a crime.

He is UNDER CUSTODY. Behind BARS. ARMED GUARDS surrounds him or her 24/7

After found guilty there is a sentencing court date to let the guilty person know what TYPE OF PUNISHMENT he or she will receive.

Not, no punishment, but what type of degree of punishment?

'CAPITAL' meaning MAX possible punishment to be giving is DEATH! Thus the term Capital punishment is used.

I know you and Kathr hate this, but Americans are ALLOWED to defend oneself even by deadly force.

Why? Because there isn't any TIME for trial and jury.

I guess If you all don't have a problem with killing baby in the womb you won't care about a man in a cell.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/8/18


Haz27:

Given how many accidental injuries and deaths occur because guns are used improperly or stored improperly shows just how much proper gun use education is lacking.

Also, your sports shooting argument may be applicable to rifles used for sports shooting, but it has nothing to do with pistols used for personal protection at home, or with open carry. Many children die because their parents leave handguns lying around the house, or in their cars.

Once again, you bring Marxism and leftism into an argument that has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with either. What does educating people in proper gun use have to do with Marxism? I really want to know.
---StrongAxe on 5/8/18


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AXE. Your false equivalency argument got exposed before so why try it again from a different angle?

The proficiency required in operating a car on busy roads differs greatly from shooting. Cars operate in congested public places requiring proficiency in multitasking, observation, judgement, etc to maintain safety, etc.
Sporting shooting, etc, is a far simpler task, undertaken in places where targets are free of people.

In Aust with our tough gun laws we're not required to have insurance. We are required to have a reason for owning a gun, such as hunting, sporting shooting club, etc.

AXE, it cannot be avoided that the Marxist Left have long aimed to undermine the Constitution, as the FBI discovered.


---Haz27 on 5/8/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Just THINK about the consequences of what you yourself said. You said capital punishment is wrong because it doesn't give criminals a change to repent. THAT VERY SAME THINKING would prevent you from shooting a rapist or home invader, for exactly the same reason. You can't have it both ways. The cold consequences are a DIRECT RESULT of your own statement.
---StrongAxe on 5/8/18

BRAVO. EXCELLENT POINT. This talking out of both sides of your mouth is amazing. Plus Trump is for Cap. Punishment. Even police brutality.
---kathr4453 on 5/8/18


Haz27:

Good for you. However, in most of the U.S., people may own guns WITHOUT having to show proficiency in their use, and are NOT required to purchase liability insurance in case they harm people or property.

Please address the actual issues being discussed, rather than dragging EVERY SINGLE MESSAGE into a screed about leftists and Marxists.


Nicole_Lacey:

Just THINK about the consequences of what you yourself said. You said capital punishment is wrong because it doesn't give criminals a change to repent. THAT VERY SAME THINKING would prevent you from shooting a rapist or home invader, for exactly the same reason. You can't have it both ways. The cold consequences are a DIRECT RESULT of your own statement.
---StrongAxe on 5/8/18


\\Listen, I think killing Gods beautiful creatures for sport is also a horrible sin. \\

Orthodoxy forbids it.

The same for sport fishing for something that is not edible.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/8/18


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StrongAxe: I was using reductio ad absurdum to show your "don't kill criminals in case they repent later" is a flawed argument against capital punishment.//

That statement of yours above shows how COLD your heart has become.

Thank God the Vatican doesn't FORGET those in Prison no matter how dark their soul make be or how red their sins has become.

Jesus commands Her to ALWAYS go after the lost sheep no matter how FAR he or she travels.

Matthew 25:36b
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/8/18


AXE. I'm a driving instructor, and I have a sporting shooters license.

I can assure you there's far more to learn about controlling a car, understanding the many road rules, developing observation and judgement skills, etc to be able to competently and safely use it on busy streets, than learning to use a gun.

When I did my voluntary training with my rifle at a local shooting range it was far, far safer and simpler, than driving a car.

Your false equivalence argument is probably sourced from Marxist Left propaganda.
And we both know how the Marxist Left's agenda to undermine the Constitution was exposed even back in 1958 in that FBI book titled "The Naked Communist".
---Haz27 on 5/8/18


Cluny, this is an EXCELLENT QUESTION, or rather observation. Bravo! An intelligent question with hopefully thoughtful responses.

Listen, I think killing Gods beautiful creatures for sport is also a horrible sin. For food, yes, for sport..NO! But I'm beginning to wonder if man knows the difference between killing man for sport or self defense?

I believe one has the right to protect themselves and yes, be responsible gun owners, BUT NOT ALL GUNS AND WEAPONS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR CITIZENS. Some of these weapons belong ONLY with the Military and law enforcement.
---kathr4453 on 5/8/18


Nicole_Lacey:

I was using reductio ad absurdum to show your "don't kill criminals in case they repent later" is a flawed argument against capital punishment.


Haz27:

Pistols are designed for the purpose of expelling a high-moving projectile in a manner that can kill. They have no other purpose. Cars have many features specifically designed to prevent loss of life and none specifically designed to cause loss of life. Despite this, in order to ensure cars cause as little loss of life as possible, we require driver training, driver licensing, vehicle registration, liability insurance, etc. What would be SO WRONG with having the same for guns, also to ensure they cause as little loss of life as possible?
---StrongAxe on 5/7/18


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AXE. Considering your record on always pushing Leftist lies here you're in no position to accuse another. The Left's Psychological projection again?

Military guns are specifically manufactured for killing in battles against those who seek to kill.
Civilian guns are not made to military standards. Typically they made for sporting shooting, which is even included as a sports category in the Olympic games.

But again you deflect from the fact that regardless of whether the weapon used to kill is a car, frozen chicken, pillow, gun, bare hands, etc, the killer is the only source of the problem of murder.
---Haz27 on 5/7/18


Haz wasn't LYING and stated it RIGHT! You were suggesting I should raped and DOUBLED DOWN on your comment!

StrongAxe, you are NOT STUPID, so please stop acting stupid!

Society are given 2 choices for people LOCKED UP BEHIND BARS.

1. Throw away the key and let them die a natural death behind bars.

or

2. Execute/kill them immediately.

The Catholic Church states since they are securely separated from society and CAN NOT HARM anyone do not kill them. LET THEM REPENT. Don't condemn their soul for ALL eternity. WE ARE NOT GOD!

The Catholic Church NEVER said NOT to kill someone during self defense actions.

The words 'kill' and 'murder' are NOT the same in the Catholic or Jewish Theologies.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/7/18


Haz27:

You wrote: Your suggestion that women should not defend themselves with a gun from being raped, burgled, murdered...

Will you ever STOP LYING? I NEVER suggested any such thing. I said Nicole needs to CHOOSE whether her own life is more important than that of her assailant. She, you, and I all agree that it is.

However, if she believes she can make that choice for herself, it would be hypocritical for her to insist others make the opposite choice for themselves by being anti-death penalty FOR THE REASON SHE GAVE that the criminal loses his choice to repent.

Cars MAY be used to deliberately kill people, but they are NOT manufactured for that purposes. Guns are SPECIFICALLY manufactured for killing.
---StrongAxe on 5/7/18


AXE. Your suggestion that women should not defend themselves with a gun from being raped, burgled, murdered just so that the perpetrator might have a potential opportunity to repent shows much disregard for the victim who likewise would lose an opportunity to repent if they're killed.

CDC research found that up to 3 million lives are saved per year by defensive use of guns. Often just pointing the gun and/or a warning shot was all that was needed to stop the perpetrator.

BTW, cars are in fact used to DELIBERATELY kill people, as do many other innocuous everyday items we use in our lives.

---Haz27 on 5/7/18


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Nicole_Lacey:

Not at all - just that you must, in your own conscience, choose which you consider more important - your own physical virtue and safety, or the soul of your assailant. If you choose the former, you cannot honestly and in good conscience object to capital punishment on the grounds that "but the criminal might repent later", because if you do, you're being inconsistent, saying it's OK for YOU to consider your own needs more important than the soul of YOUR attacker, while expecting others to make the opposite choice.

An 18 year old can go into Walmart and buy a gun, but he can't buy beer - because alcohol is more regulated than guns.
---StrongAxe on 5/7/18


StrongAxe, are you suggesting I have to be rape because I might accidentally shoot the rapist dead?

Or are you suggesting I am only allowed to wrestle him off me and If I can't too bad for me? He deserves to live.

BTW, Rape Victim states that single incident killed them inside.

StrongAxe: I don't understand why gun-lovers are perfectly fine with requiring training to operate cars, drivers licenses, vehicle registration, safety standards, emissions standards, liability insurance, etc. but very strongly object to applying the same rules to guns.//

Because you won't APPLY the same rules to Alcohol which KILLS MORE people, abuses more kids, breaks up more marriages and families and turns cars into a killing machine.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/18


Nicole_Lacey:

If you shoot a rapist or burglar dead, doesn't that also deny him the opportunity to repent?

A rapist with ill intent can do a limited amount of damage, as can a similar man with a car. A similar man with a gun can do orders of magnitude more damage. Look at mass shootings like Las Vegas.

Guns are deadly. So are cars. Cars are designed for travel, but kill by accident. Guns kill by design. I don't understand why gun-lovers are perfectly fine with requiring training to operate cars, drivers licenses, vehicle registration, safety standards, emissions standards, liability insurance, etc. but very strongly object to applying the same rules to guns.
---StrongAxe on 5/6/18


Cluny: You don't think these are literal earthly swords, do you?

No, but you don't think Jesus told them to have a sword to go around killing people do you?

So tell me? Why do you think it was so important to Jesus to them to buy a sword even if they have to sell their ONLY cloak.

StrongAxe is kind in saying that Jesus said to sell an extra cloak to buy a sword.

But according to Luke 22:36 Jesus said "..if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!"

Exchange your ONLY cloak for a sword.

Please give me your opinion?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/18


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\\If He was why give Angels swords? Rev 19:15\\

You don't think these are literal earthly swords, do you?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/6/18


Cluny, your connection of pro-life and unlimited access to firearms is antithetical to each other doesn't make any sense.

Just because I am pro-life and a man wants his way with me doesn't mean I wouldn't use a gun to stop him.

The only thing that matches my strength with a man's strength (equal to equal) is a gun. Mark 3:27

How does my unlimited access to firearms equates to a Rapist's life breaking into my house to violate me? I brought my gun for those wishes to break laws.

Our view towards guns are the same as you seeing a glass half empty and I seeing the same glass half filled.

How does your negativity view of unlimited access to firearms outweigh my optimism of unlimited access to firearms?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/18


I only against capital punishment because a Priest explained to me that it prevents a person time to repent. Thus sealing his or her soul hell forever.

That's the ONLY reason.

Cluny you have your Gospels mixed up. Matthew 26:52 or 54 speaks about putting away the sword. Common sense will tell you if you are fighting with a sword or gun you will die by that weapon. But you shouldn't put words in Jesus' mouth.

StrongAxe is correct. Luke 22:36 until his arrest doesn't speak about dying by the sword.

Jesus was only stopping His Disciples from fighting at that moment.

Jesus isn't confused and remembers what He told His Disciples.

He isn't against weapons

If He was why give Angels swords? Rev 19:15
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/18


\\At one point in his ministry, Jesus told his apostles to sell an extra cloak and buy a sword, so even he was not anti-weapon.\\

And a few verses later in that same evening, Jesus said, "Put away your gun. Those who take up the gun shall die by the gun.."

Or something like that.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/5/18


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Cluny:

At one point in his ministry, Jesus told his apostles to sell an extra cloak and buy a sword, so even he was not anti-weapon.


john9346:

Capital Punishment is ordained by Ho Theos Kyrios of Scripture...

Yes, in the Old Testament, and for many things for which we would not even think of executing people today (for example, driving on Saturday). We are Christians here, operating under the New Covenant of Jesus, not Jews, operating under the Old Covenant of Moses. Also, as Cluny pointed out, "let he who is free of sin throw the first stone" means nobody qualifies as a suitable executioner.
---StrongAxe on 5/5/18


cluny said, "The Savior gave the requirements for the executioners in John 8."

If your talking about the Adulterous Woman that is not in Scripture it was added later...

Capital Punishment is ordained by Ho Theos Kyrios of Scripture...
---john9346 on 5/5/18


Jesus commanded we love others John 13:34. Love does no harm to another, Rom 13:10.

This command guides the "seamless pro-life ethic" you ponder.

Thus no Christian should support the harmful Left with their heartless baby murder, poverty creating welfare dependency culture, bullying, etc.
And considering the totalitarian Left's record on taking away peoples guns before they subjugate and/or murder them, this is another reason not to support the harmful Left.
Clearly any support for the Left is antithetical to Christ's command to love others.

As for guns for sports, hunting, collecting, self defense, 2nd Amendment, that's up to the individual Christian as long as they don't intentionally harm others.
---Haz27 on 5/3/18


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