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Is Living Bread Literial

The Bread of Life Discourse:

" I am the living bread that came down from heaven: whoever eats this bread will forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." Jhn 6:51

Symbolic or Literal? Make your case.

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 ---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/11/18
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Ruben:

Manna was a physical substance, but Jesus was not physically mana or bread. He was always a human being. Some of his followers believed he was literal when he told them to eat his flesh, and they left him because cannibalism was forbidden by the Law of Moses. Jesus would NOT teach anyone to violate the Law, so he could not have been speaking literally. Note that after the Last Supper, there is no mention of any chunks of Jesus being missing because the apostles ate him.

We have eternal life but not eternal PHYSICAL life - otherwise Christians would not need cemeteries.


Nicole_Lacey:

You spoke of "Cafeteria Christians" who reject Jesus. I assumed you were referring to me. Was I mistaken?
---StrongAxe on 9/1/18


As we come close to finishing this blog, I would like to thank those who participate and gave it their best shot.

As I look at the response giving I saw no substantial evidence to Jesus speaking symbolically at all, in fact two of you keep saying he was not a loaf of bread.

Jesus was speaking symbolism but not symbolic like you guys claim. He was representing himself to the manna. He told the crowd it was not Moses who gave them the manna, but the father send down the manna From heaven, Jesus said He is the bread of heaven v 30-35.

No one ready touch any scripture verses from the discourse so i came to a concluding that some of you were like the disciples at that time, " This is hard, who can understand"
---Ruben on 9/1/18


"THE LORD said: Do this in remembrance of ME" - and of course - symbolically and spiritual) speaking - not as if HIS BODY at that moment would be literally transfigured into that bread and wine and as we celebrate HIS MOST SUBLIME SACRIFICE for us sinners at the cross - this belief it's not SPIRIT DISCERNED and wrong: One thing is Christianity - another one is religion - the two cannot be united!
---Melody on 9/1/18


StrongAxe: I'm not rejecting Jesus.//

I DIDN'T say you were rejecting Jesus. A 'Christian means you accept Jesus. Cafeteria Christian means you pick and choose what to accept of Jesus' Words.

//I'm rejecting the idea that Jesus is a plant because he said "I am the Vine".//

Jesus didn't say He was a TRUE Vine or door over and over.

//I am rejecting the idea that Jesus has wool because he is the Lamb of God//

But He is the Lamb they had to eat which is why the Disciples left.

Israel has to EAT the Lamb in the Passover OR death comes to Israel.

BTW, the Disciples didn't leave Jesus over the Vine, Door incident because they KNEW He was speaking symbolically, but NOT with the Bread and Wine.
---Nicole_Lacey on 9/1/18


Door-vine
---StrongAxe on 8/31/18

No one ask how can he be door. John 6 Jesus starts about the manna, it was real and physical, God did not make symbolic manna.

He goes on says that this living bread that he will give to us is his FLESH. They understood him literally, how can this man give us his flesh? , a big difference!

Jesus says our eternal life is at stake on eating literally, if we refuse to eat his flesh and drink his blood we have no life in us. In fact he say his flesh is meat indeed and his blood is drink indeed v 55

Again iv v 57,58 he goes back to the manna which was real, physical that God gave to them, and the flesh and blood is compared to the physical manna not showing symbolic language.
---Ruben on 9/1/18




Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Ruben, you can not reason with people who WANT to be Cafeteria Christians. They are rejecting Jesus and believe Jesus is limited.

No. I'm not rejecting Jesus. I'm rejecting the idea that Jesus is a plant because he said "I am the Vine". I am rejecting the idea that Jesus has a doorknob because he said "I am the door". I am rejecting the idea that Jesus has wool because he is the Lamb of God. I am rejecting the idea that Jesus has a crust because he said "I am the bread of life".

That you cannot see the distinction between literal and non-literal language is staggering.
---StrongAxe on 9/1/18


Ruben, you can not reason with people who WANT to be Cafeteria Christians.

They are rejecting Jesus and believe Jesus is limited.

Jesus can rise from the dead, but NOT make His Body and Blood Bread and Wine.

Jesus can raise people from the dead, but NOT make His Body and Blood Bread and Wine.

Jesus can turn water into wine, but NOT turn His Blood into wine. That's to hard for Jesus.

You and I believe Luke 1:37, they do not
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/31/18


No Ruben giving his life on the cross was not symbolic. It was the fulfillment of the thousands of animals who symbolically in the Temple who represented Jesus on the cross.

Him being a loaf of bread and not a person is symbolic. The Temple was full of symbolism. Which is a great study.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/31/18


Ruben:

Yes, three saw the transfiguration of Jesus - yet after that, Jesus did literally die on the cross. In fact, the whole of Christian redemption theology hangs on this - that by dying in our place, he took our sins onto himself. This would not be possible if Jesus did not die. He literally did die.

All other Christians also literally do die too - it's just that they don't die spiritually.

Note that Luke 9:27 says they would SEE the kingdom before death, not that they would ENTER it before death. When Stephen was martyred, for example, he saw a vision of heaven just BEFORE he died.
---StrongAxe on 8/31/18


It specifically deals with the fact that Jesus said many things that cannot be taken literally. He said we will not taste death, yet we sill all die.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/18

Luke 9:27 " Truly, there are some standing here who would not not see taste death until they see the Kingdom of God."

Jesus is referring to the transfiguration, which three did see.

Granted Jesus did speak symbolic at times but he also spoke literally as well!

Where is the symbolic language in the bread of life discourse?

Did Jesus give his life on cross or was that symbolic?vs 6:51
---Ruben on 8/31/18




Ruben:

I didn't say "Jesus is not bread". I said "He is not LITERALLY and PHYSICALLY bread".

Jesus said "I am the bread of life". Despite this, he was not baked, and he did not have a crust. He certainly didn't look like bread. If he were literally bread, his disciples would have realized it just by looking at him, and he would not have needed to say it. He also called himself "the vine", yet he had no leaves nor fruit. He called himself "the door", yet he had no doorknob. Vines and bread and doors and human beings are all physically very different, yet Jesus was all of these in a way that was not physical.
---StrongAxe on 8/31/18


Samuelbb7 * I believe Jesus.

I do not believe your interpretation that he was being literal.

Was it Jesus who said these words or did I?

Samuelbb7 Jhn 6:51

and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

His flesh was not bread. So it has to be symbolic.

Jesus gave his life to us on the cross, so let me see if I got this right, according to you it was symbolic.

You and StrongAxe hang on to he is not a bread, but ignore about his flesh that it is true food, why is that?
---Ruben on 8/30/18


I believe Jesus.

I do not believe your interpretation that he was being literal.

Jhn 6:51

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

His flesh was not bread. So it has to be symbolic.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/30/18


Ruben:

You asked: What is your believe when you die? Heaven or hell?

Note the very words in your question: when you die.

Not IF you die. WHEN you die. Because ALL Christians eventually die. Our bodies cease to function. Our souls may go to heaven or hell, but that is not physical. Our body is physical.

The resurected Jesus appears to have a normal body : Luke 24:36-43

Yet Jesus DID die, on the cross.

What does this after to do with the Bread of life discourse?

It specifically deals with the fact that Jesus said many things that cannot be taken literally. He said we will not taste death, yet we sill all die.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/18


Strong Ax is using an analogy to point out your understanding of reality verses symbolic is false.

Strong Ax is correct.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/29/18

Samuel,

His argument is with Jesus not me,

Jesus said " This Bread is my flesh which I will give to the world"

" My flesh is true food, My blood is true drink"

And this is when ask " How can this man give us his flesh to eat"

Who should I believe Jesus or you and StrongAxe?
---Ruben on 8/30/18


Ruben

Strong Ax is using an analogy to point out your understanding of reality verses symbolic is false.

Strong Ax is correct.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/29/18


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StrongAxe* Jesus said "he who believes in me will never taste death" - not literally true, since churches have cemeteries, and every Christian in history has died except the few still alive in this century.

What is your believe when you die? Heaven or hell?

StrongAxe* 3) All Christians have everlasting life, but it is not physical

I'm going with #3. How about you?


We are all going to have our physical gloried bodies:

The resurected Jesus appears to have a normal body : Luke 24:36-43

What does this after to do with the Bread of life discourse?
---Ruben on 8/29/18


Ruben:

Jesus said "he who believes in me will never taste death" - not literally true, since churches have cemeteries, and every Christian in history has died except the few still alive in this century.

One of these must be true:
1) Jesus lied when he said he would give us everlasting life (or the Bible lied claiming he said that)
3) All Christians have everlasting life, and it is physical
3) All Christians have everlasting life, but it is not physical

#1 would men Christianity is a sham.

#2 would mean virtually all Christians throughout history got it wrong, and aren't really Christians, and we're all going to hell.

I'm going with #3. How about you?
---StrongAxe on 8/27/18


StrongAxe * He didn't say "this bread is BECOME my flesh" and change permitted food into forbidden food. He said "this bread IS my flesh", stating a reality that went beyond mere physical equivalence.

So when he also said that he will give for the life to the world, it also was a (reality that went beyond physical equivalence)

strongaxe* Eating human flesh and drinking blood was forbidden by the Law, which is why many of Jesus's followers left him when he told them they had to do that.

So Jesus will let you walk no more with him for a misunderstanding?
---Ruben on 8/26/18


Nicole_Lacey:

We agree, the Disciples knew Jesus was speaking literally.

No, WE don't! If Jesus WERE speaking literally, he would have been commanding his disciples to violate the Law of Moses by drinking blood and eating forbidden meat. He himself said ANYONE who teaches ANYONE to violate the Law will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. Some disciples THOUGHT he was being literal, and left because of that. The rest obviously didn't think so.

He was accused of breaking the Law several times. Luke 6:7, Mark 2:23

That Pharisees accused him didn't mean that he did. However, drinking blood is a very clearly forbidden.

Besides the Disciples broke the Law left and right.

How, and when?
---StrongAxe on 8/25/18


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StrongAxe: Eating human flesh and drinking blood was forbidden by the Law, which is why many of Jesus's followers left him when he told them they had to do that.//

We agree, the Disciples knew Jesus was speaking literally.

Now can Jesus to give us His Body and Blood in the form of Bread and Wine?

//Jesus also said if anyone tells you to break the law, he is the least in the Kingdom. If he were speaking physically, he would have been breaking the law.//

He was accused of breaking the Law several times. Luke 6:7, Mark 2:23

Matt 12:1-7 Jesus defends the Disciples, puts Himself greater than David and demands Mercy

Besides the Disciples broke the Law left and right.

You rather spin the truth than obey.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Eating human flesh and drinking blood was forbidden by the Law, which is why many of Jesus's followers left him when he told them they had to do that. Jesus also said if anyone tells you to break the law, he is the least in the Kingdom. If he were speaking physically, he would have been breaking the law.

He didn't say "this bread is BECOME my flesh" and change permitted food into forbidden food. He said "this bread IS my flesh", stating a reality that went beyond mere physical equivalence. If I hold a $1 bill in my left hand and four quarters in my right, I can say "This is a dollar" about each, even though they are physically completely different.
---StrongAxe on 8/24/18


Kathr: first, the manna that kept Israel alive is also said to be that BREAD//

Yes, but special bread. A bread from Heaven and couldn't be made.

//but was it also Jesus Flesh?//

No, that is what Jesus said

//where is any supporting scripture that Jesus TRUE disciples/APostles LITERALLY ate Jesus flesh and drank His Blood?//

At the Last Supper

Priests uses the EXACT WORDS of Jesus during Mass.

//Even when He was alive and easily accessed WINE AND BREAD were used.//

Yea, that's why Jesus chose wine and bread to be used to become His Body and Blood.

//Asking his followers to drink wine and bread would not have been that hard.//

Thus, you yourself proved it ISN'T symbolic speech!
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/18


Josef, because we know what the word parable means.

When it is a parable both Jesus and the Narrator tells us it is a parable.

Tell me when a parable is said when we are NOT told it is a parable? Never.

//See Mat 13:10-15//

V 10 Why do you speak to the people in parables? The Disiciple are not part of the 'people' but just in case you think so Jesus dispells that thinking see Matt 13:11 (Note the words 'given to you and not to them' 2 groups in that verse.

//Judas was called a disciple of Jesus, but in reality he was a devil.//

Judas was still a disciple and chosen by Jesus. Back up to words "Have not I chosen you twelve...

Remember Jesus chosen 12 to respresent the 12 tribes of Israel
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/24/18


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And why did they fell away, what was so hard for them to understand?
"How can this man give us his flesh to eat? This is a hard saying, who can understand it?"
---josef on 8/21/18


Correction, "telling the public every time He spoke in parable, would defeat the purpose of the parables."
---josef on 8/21/18


Like I mentioned earlier Judas was called a disciple of Jesus, but in reality he was a devil. Those who left where "rocks" that had no root in themselves, for a while they believe, but when it came time to prove themselves, they fell away.
---josef on 8/20/18


And why did they fell away, what was so hard for them to understand?
---Ruben on 8/21/18


first, the manna that kept Israel alive is also said to be that BREAD/ but was it also Jesus Flesh? Before Jesus incarnation Jesus was not flesh. They gathered every day. Did this bread from heaven secure the Israelites salvation? NO! because they rebelled, and everyone 21 and over died in their sin in the wilderness. They did not enter the Promise Land which is also symbolic of salvation. So thinking some physical substance injested secures eternal life is SAD.

AND where is any supporting scripture that Jesus TRUE disciples/APostles LITERALLY ate Jesus flesh and drank His Blood? Even when He was alive and easily accessed WINE AND BREAD were used . Asking his followers to drink wine and bread would not have been that hard.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/18


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"So when Jesus is speaking symbolically or not both the Narrator and Jesus will LET US KNOW." Nicole telling the public every time He was spook in parable, would defeat the purpose of the parables. See Mat 13:10-15
"You can not be called Jesus disciples unless you really are, nice try!"
Like I mentioned earlier Judas was called a disciple of Jesus, but in reality he was a devil. Those who left where "rocks" that had no root in themselves, for a while they believe, but when it came time to prove themselves, they fell away.
---josef on 8/20/18


The Bible is clear, Jesus read minds and CORRECTED THEM. Matt 9:4

Even in John 11:11 Jesus said Lazarus asleep (symbolically) and He was going to wake him up. V12 "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better."
The Bible tells us in V13 that Jesus was speaking of his death, but His disciples thought He meant natual sleep. V14 So then He told them PLAINLY, "Lazarus is dead.."

So when Jesus is speaking symbolically or not both the Narrator and Jesus will LET US KNOW.

But you want us to believe ch 6 the Narrator and Jesus REFUSE TO TELL US.

Jesus even walked until evening time EXPLAINING Himself Luke 24:13-35, but NOT in John 6, He rather let most of His Disciples leave Him over a SIMPLE misunderstanding
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/20/18


josef * As concerning those so called disciples, John explains it, "they went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Josef that scripture verse you gave is from 1 John 2:19 Jesus was already gone to heaven at that time and besides in John 6:66 it read Some of his (JESUS) disciples walk no more with him. You can not be called Jesus disciples unless you really are, nice try!
---Ruben on 8/20/18


Scriptures says Some of his disciples walk no more with him, it does not say... Jesus said "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him,.. and he that gathers not with me scatters." As concerning those so called disciples, John explains it, "they went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." "Because they knew what he meant," If so they would not have asked that question, or asked "who can understand?" Nicole, this line should read I don't think He was speaking of His physical thirst at that time,
---josef on 8/20/18


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Scriptures says Some of his disciples walk no more with him, it does not say... Jesus said "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him,.. and he that gathers not with me scatters." As concerning those so called disciples, John explains it, "they went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." "Because they knew what he meant," If so they would not have asked that question, or asked "who can understand?" Nicole, this line should read I don't think He was not speaking of His physical thirst at that time,
---josef on 8/20/18


Rueban they were thinking physical when Jesus was speaking spiritually a problem many still have.
Love GOD love others follow Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/18


Josef: He said I thirst//Because He was fully Human and fully God. He became severely anemic... All anemia people are thirsty. Perhaps, however I don't think He was not speaking of His physical thirst at that time, because they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. Mar 15:23
Josef, you keep staying they all parables> Nichol I simply quoted scripture, Jesus spoke unto the multitude in parables, and without a parable spake he not unto them: Mat 13:34 2nd Witness, without a parable spake he not unto them: [but] when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Mar 4:34
---josef on 8/20/18


josef* Some of them may have considered themselves disciples, but Jesus only choose twelve, and as He said, one of them was a devil.

Jesus choose only twelve Apostles. Scriptures says Some of his disciples walk no more with him, it does not say that some may have considered to be disciples.


josef* Jhn 6:70 What puzzles me, is no one asked what He meant.

Because they knew what he meant,

" How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

" This is hard who can understand?"

Would Jesus let you walk away if you did not know what he meant?
---Ruben on 8/20/18


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Josef, you keep staying they all parables. Go to Luke 15, 16 and 17. When it is a parable the Bible states it is a parable. Or Jesus uses the word 'like' The kingdom is like....

Real people Jesus says 'there was' a man when He spoke about the rich man and the poor men Lazarus. A True story.

In Matthew 3:9 And do think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.'I tell you that out of these stones God can reaise up children for Abraham.

Question, Do you think God is capable of stones telling children or will they be symbolic children?

How limited do you think ofJesus' capability?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/19/18


Nicole_Lacey:

As it is raining cats and dogs?

Yes, precisely!

So according to YOUR logic, Jesus symbolically gave His Body and Blood to us and SYMBOLICALLY ascended into Heaven.

Since every Christian born before around 1800 (and even most born since then) are actually and physically dead, the eternal life that Jesus gave us is NOT physical. Otherwise, no churches would have cemeteries. There would be no need for resurrection. Yet churches have cemeteries and preach resurrection. Why is that?

His apostles all physically saw him ascending into heaven, so that is a different matter.
---StrongAxe on 8/19/18


Josef: He said I thirst//

Because He was fully Human and fully God.
He became severely anemic. He was whipped hard and His clothes took some the rest of His Body.
All anemia people are thirsty. People you see craving and eating ice are anemia.

Strong Axe: "Metaphors indicate a reality that is not physical, but is still real."//

As it is raining cats and dogs?

Chria: "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."//

AFTER John V 61-62

Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

So according to YOUR logic, Jesus symbolically gave His Body and Blood to us and SYMBOLICALLY ascended into Heaven.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/19/18


"Josef, Jesus also said the flesh was weak. Matt 26:41. He was speaking about our flesh NOT His Flesh." Nicole I understand the flesh, in this subjects context, to be the carnal nature of man focused on the externals of life, and led by those sensual perceptions. Jesus, as a human, was subject to the same weaknesses that affects any human being. The difference? The way He mastered His flesh. He immediately recognized when He was not abiding in the fulness of the Father's Spirit. Examples, Mat 26:39-44, notice that the statement ends, not my will, but your will be done. Mat 27:46, but immediately after that statement, again, recognizing He was not abiding in the fulness of the Spirit, He said I thirst.
---josef on 8/19/18


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"Metaphors indicate a reality that is not physical, but is still real."
---StrongAxe on 8/18/18
Yes, still real, and thus " my flesh is true/real food"...

Nicole, "Those verses do NOT have the word 'Living' as in John. That's my point."

However, Jesus tells (us) "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Given who Jesus is, this would not apply exclusively or only, to the few words being discussed in this chapter.

And Peter recognizes that "thou(Jesus) hast the words of eternal life"
---chria9396 on 8/19/18


The bread is literally bread. Before or after it is prayed over it is still bread. It taste like bread. It has the same consistency. It is not changed. It is literally bread. It symbolizes Christ's body. It does not become the body of Christ. Our eating of this bread profits our bodies little. Spiritually taking in Christ benefits us greatly!
---trey on 8/19/18


"Jesus is all-knowing, correct and he would know it would be cannibalism?
If He meant it literally, no doubt, and obviously so did the people listening.
"You are not saying it is Jesus flesh , are you?" I was quoting Jesus.
"A parables were stories, this is a teaching and some of his disciples walk with him no more v66." This was a parable, and Jesus was always teaching.
However at this time he was addressing the multitude, "and without a parable spake he not unto them". Some of them may have considered themselves disciples, but Jesus only choose twelve, and as He said, one of them was a devil. Jhn 6:70 What puzzles me, is no one asked what He meant.
---josef on 8/18/18


Josef, Jesus also said the flesh was weak. Matt 26:41. He was speaking about our flesh NOT His Flesh.

Jesus spoke in the 1st pronoun in John 6 not in the 3rd pronoun in Matthew.

StrongAxe: John 15:1,5 "I am the true vine"
John 10:7,9 "I am the door"//

Those verses do NOT have the word 'Living' as in John. That's my point.

Those were symbolic and not the Bread.

//It is PLAINLY OBVIOUS that this CANNOT be literal.//

Do you think Abraham could have taken a slave boy to symbolically offer to God as his son?

Do you think any of the Prophets could have sent their servants to speak in behalf of them when God told them to go speak for Him?

Why would Jesus do less than them?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/18/18


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Jerry* the Communion wafer is literal food which symbolizes Christ's body that was sacrificed for us.

" and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

Jerry you are saying that Jesus on the cross was symbolic?

Jerry* Jesus Himself declared that these words were of a spiritual - not just physical - nature in John 6:63


Agree, spiritual and physical but not symbolic!
---Ruben on 8/18/18


Jeremiah 17:13 - O Lord , the hope of Israel , all that forsake thee shall be ashamed , and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living water.

John 4:10 - Jesus answer and said unto her, If thou newest the gift of God and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink: thou wouldest have asked of him. and he would have given thee living water.

( Something done Once , can be done Twice ! )
---RichardC on 8/18/18


Jeremiah 17:13 - O Lord , the hope of Israel , all that forsake thee shall be ashamed , and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living water.

John 4:10 - Jesus answer and said unto her, If thou newest the gift of God and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink: thou wouldest have asked of him. and he would have given thee living water.

( Something done Once , can be done Twice ! )
---RichardC on 8/18/18


Nicole_Lacey:
John 15:1,5 "I am the true vine"
John 10:7,9 "I am the door"

I never said he said he was a LIVING vine or door, but that's irrelevant. A vine has leaves and grapes. A door has hinges - none of which Jesus had, so he WAS NOT being literal. Jesus is the vine. Can you pick leaves off him and and weave a basket? Can you pick grapes off him and make jam? Of course not.

It is PLAINLY OBVIOUS that this CANNOT be literal. It AMAZES me how you cannot see this.

Bread on another, higher level of existence. Not MERELY symbolic, but not PHYSICAL either. Metaphors indicate a reality that is not physical, but is still real.
---StrongAxe on 8/18/18


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Both!

The Manna (Heb. "What is it?") was true, literal food, which symbolically represented the life-sustaining power of Christ.

Similarly, the Communion wafer is literal food which symbolizes Christ's body that was sacrificed for us. Jesus Himself declared that these words were of a spiritual - not just physical - nature in John 6:63.



---jerry6593 on 8/18/18


josef * Jesus is not giving man His literal body to be consumed, that would be cannibalism, .

!. Jesus is all-knowing, correct and he would know it would be cannibalism?

2. But he goes on say v 51-58 to eat his flesh never changing his stance even when ask " How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

josef * It is the spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing.

You are not saying it is Jesus flesh , are you?

Jesus says gave his flesh to the world, it gives life and he will raise you up if you eat his flesh!


josef * Which is why he only spoke to the multitudes in parables. Mat 13:34

A parables were stories, this is a teaching and some of his disciples walk with him no more v66.
---Ruben on 8/18/18


StrongAxe, quote from the Bible where He said He was the LIVING door or vine?

He ONLY said He was the LIVING Bread John 6:51 I am the LIVING BREAD that came down from Heaven.

Note He said 'came' down from Heaven comparing Himself to the manna which also came from Heaven.

//It was just true at a level of reality that was different from our literal physical reality.//

It AMAZES me how you can decide for yourself what is literal and NOT literal in the Bible to suit yourself. Symbolic vs reality of real bread?

***Jesus knew they wanted physical bread and as always He offered them something better.

//Exactly. He was not PHYSICAL bread.//

??? Please explain HOW symbolic bread is better than REAL bread?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/17/18


Jesus gives us life. So, yes He is our life-giving food spiritual. And we become what we eat. As we keep feeding on Jesus in our spirit, we become more and more "as He is" "in this world." (1 John 4:17 > also consider Galatians 4:19)
---Bill on 8/17/18


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Symbolic. Since Jesus walked the earth as a flesh and blood man. Not wheat laying on a shelf.

The Sanhedrin had trouble with the literal and symbolic.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/16/18


Ruben I am simply sharing my view, attempting to make my case concerning what I believe to be a symbolic reference or representation. If you can not receive what I am sharing, please dismiss it. Or if you can prove what I'm sharing to be incorrect through some biblical reference, please do. However, in my view, Jesus is not giving man His literal body to be consumed, that would be cannibalism, and probably what the people thought he was promoting. I don't attempt to inteprete scripture, I make an attempt to understand what is being conveyed, in reliance on what I believe to be the Father's inspiration. It is the spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing. Which is why he only spoke to the multitudes in parables. Mat 13:34
---josef on 8/16/18


josef *
You are of course as entitled to your belief, as I am to mine.

Where in scripture does it say you are entitled in your interpretation?

josef * Man does not live on bread alone, my guess it has the word bread!
My point was made by the verse itself.

It has nothing to do about eating his flesh? In fact if you go by that verse ," man does not live on bread alone then you are saying it not just Jesus himself that we need. Jesus said whoever eats this bread lives forever!


josef * I said "consuming the Father's word, which [Jesus] represented".

But where does it mentions consuming the Father"s word? You had yet to touch any of the Bread of life discourse verses, why?
---Ruben on 8/16/18


"No, I believe in his words, "for my Flesh is true food."
You are of course as entitled to your belief, as I am to mine.
Man does not live on bread alone, my guess it has the word bread!
My point was made by the verse itself.
I will ask again, where in the bread of life discourse John chapter 6 does it mention consuming his words?
I said "consuming the Father's word, which [Jesus] represented". He didn't need to mention it for me to know that Father's Word is "the bread of life," for His word is life, and is that which feeds, nourishes and sustains the believer.
---josef on 8/15/18


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"Representing really,Jesus said the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." Ruben it is my understanding that the giving of Jesus' flesh represented the setting forth of the mental disposition, and character traits He exhibited during His human experience, as an external example of an elevated life that has recognized and acknowledged the support, refreshment, nourishment, and guidance of the Father's direct Divine inspiration and influence. It was this life that He gave 'for', (over, beyond, and above), the life of the world. The reason He referred to Himself as the bread of life is because He set the standard meant to raise mans standard of living, and enrich his life.
---josef on 8/15/18


josef* " Are you trying to say : " This is hard who can understand this.v 60"
No, but apparently you are.

No, I believe in his words, "for my Flesh is true food. You mention Matthew 4:4 Man does not live on bread alone, my guess it has the word bread! When ask " How can this man give us his flesh to eat" How did Jesus answer this question?

josef*"Where does he says by mentally consuming his word?"
Where, other than the mind, can the Father's word be consumed?

I will ask again, where in the bread of life discourse John chapter 6 does it mention consuming his words ?
---Ruben on 8/15/18


" Are you trying to say : " This is hard who can understand this.v 60"
No, but apparently you are.
"Where does he says by mentally consuming his word?"
Where, other than the mind, can the Father's word be consumed?
---josef on 8/14/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Jesus used symbolic language when he called himself the bread, the lamb, the vine, and the door. He did not have a crust, wool, leaves and grapes, nor hinges. This is not to say what he said wasn't true. It was just true at a level of reality that was different from our literal physical reality.

Jesus knew they wanted physical bread and as always He offered them something better.

Exactly. He was not PHYSICAL bread.
---StrongAxe on 8/14/18


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josef * Jesus said, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

And what are the words that proceeds from his mouth :

". FOR MY FLESH IS TRUE FOOD AND MY BLOOD TRUE DRINK" v ^:54-55

josef * Jesus represented the living bread, (as the living word of God made tangible to man), .

Representing really,Jesus said the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.

Josef* so he that 'eateth me' (by mentally consuming the Father's word, which He represented), even he shall live by me."

Where does he says by mentally consuming his word? Are you trying to say : " This is hard who can understand this.v 60
---Ruben on 8/14/18


Well said josef
---chria9396 on 8/14/18


Jesus said, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Jesus represented the living bread, (as the living word of God made tangible to man), representing both Spirit and life. It was His life that He gave for the life of man. And as He also said, "As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that 'eateth me' (by mentally consuming the Father's word, which He represented), even he shall live by me." For the bread of God is He which came down from heaven, It is He that literally gives life unto the world.
---josef on 8/13/18


StrongAxe, tell me what do you think Jesus meant when He called Himself the LIVING Bread in John 6:51.

Also note how He corrects them when they said Moses gave their ancestors bread from Heaven. John 6:31

Instead He called Himself TRUE Bread from Heaven V32-33

Next the people asked for this bread and Jesus plainly tells them He is the Bread several times and several ways after they were shock to hear Him.

Remember they just finish eating bread and followed Him for more bread.

Jesus knew they wanted physical bread and as always He offered them something better.

Instead of bread to sustain life here on earth He offered them Bread for eternity
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/13/18


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Ruben, you explain John 6 well.

StrongAxe: Jesus COULD make himself anything he wants, but didn't.//

Says who? Not Jesus.

He tells the Disciples He is Bread every way and more detailed each time He explains Himself.

He doubles downs and triple down His position.

Besides, who ever heard of an OT miracle surpassing a NT miracle?

Moses gave them real bread and Jesus gives us fake bread?

Jesus even tells them He is the Living Bread.

The people ate the manna and still died!

But Jesus states eating Him as the True Living Bread will give us external life
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/13/18


God as a potter, a shepherd, a rock, a fortress, etc.

Jesus as the bread, as the light, as a groom, as a vine, etc.

Christians are the salt.
---Steveng on 8/12/18

Out of all those you mention, which one is the one they question him and why?
---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/13/18


Jesus isn't the lone one in the bible to use "symbols." The Hebrews used metaphors, similes, and parables to understand spiritual matters using worldly language. The OT and NT are full of metaphors, similes, and parables describing God, Jesus and christiaians:

God as a potter, a shepherd, a rock, a fortress, etc.

Jesus as the bread, as the light, as a groom, as a vine, etc.

Christians are the salt.
---Steveng on 8/12/18


Nicole_Lacey:

The most rudimentary common sense that everyone uses every day, except apparently when interpreting scripture.

He was incubated in a womb like a human, not baked like a loaf of bread, not grown from a seed like a vine, nor made on a carpenter's bench like a door.

Jesus COULD make himself anything he wants, but didn't. He SAID "I am the Bread of Life", but he didn't pull a David Copperfield and suddenly become a loaf of bread, with crust and holes and all. He didn't suddenly become a vine with leaves and grapes and all. He didn't become a door with lintel and hinges and all. He was not LITERALLY bread nor vine nor door.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/18


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Strong axe* However, in the particular case of this particular blog, "bread" is obviously symbolic.

Lets see:

1. This bread is my flesh given to the world, on the cross by the way. Symbolic according to you.

2.My flesh is TRUE food indeed and my blood is true drink. True means true Yes?

3. When ask How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

How did Jesus response to this question?

A. It's not my real flesh I am talking about or

B. My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Strong axe* Jesus was formed in a womb, and not in an oven. He was made of flesh and blood, not wheat and yeast.

Jesus answer to you:

Does this shock you v 61
---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/12/18


StrongAxe: "bread" is obviously symbolic. Jesus was formed in a womb, and not in an oven.//

Your logic is off.

1. Who are you to decide which is which?

2. You do realize the 2nd PERSON of the Trinity didn't have a Body?

How He decided how to be Human doesn't diminish His power to become anything else.

In fact, He didn't have to be in Mary's womb to be a Human.

He wasn't conceived as a Human as you and I.

He DIDN'T have a Sperm contribution.

So your statement doesn't hold water.

3. Are you claiming Jesus COULDN'T make Himself Bread or Wine if He wants to be Bread and Wine?

He couldn't make Bread and Wine His Body and Blood every time a Priest invokes the Holy Spirit?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/12/18


Every time the Disciples misunderstand Jesus, Jesus corrects them.

John 11:11-12 "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep: I am going there to wake him up." (There He was speaking symbolically.)

V14 So then he told them PLAINLY, "Lazarus is dead..."

Jesus corrects them about Lazarus but doubles down on being Bread and Wine which He commands us to ate and drink.

Why?

Because He wasn't speaking symbolically, but literally.

As His Disciples took Him and left. Which the 12 didn't deny it was hard to accept as well but didn't leave because they didn't have anyone to follow.

They allowed their faith in Jesus to overcome any strange command from Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/11/18


Ruben_Ruiz:

Yes. Some language is obviously literal, some is symbolic, and some is not so obvious and could be taken either way. However, in the particular case of this particular blog, "bread" is obviously symbolic. Jesus was formed in a womb, and not in an oven. He was made of flesh and blood, not wheat and yeast.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/18


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Strong Axe*Jesus used many terms that are necessarily symbolic. When he called himself the "bread of life", he was not calling himself a literal loaf of bread, and when he called himself "the vine", he was not saying he was a plant. He frequently spoke in metaphor, expecting his readers could easily tell the difference between literal and metaphorical language.

He also spoke literally, so if I wanted to say that the Holy Spirit is symbolic then I would be right. It would be up to anyone of us to make this claim. Who decides what is symbolic or literal?
---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/11/18


StrongAxe: He frequent spoke in metaphor, expecting his readers could easily tell the difference between literal and metaphorical language.//

First His Disciples. His Disciples knew He was speaking literally because they left Him! John 6:66

Not when He said He was a Vain, nope. Light of the world, Bridegroom, The Good Shepherd even though EVERYONE knew He was a Carpenter.

Or when He claimed to be the Son of God which that claim could get Him and them Killed.

Noooooo, calling Himself Bread and Wine was OVER THE TOP! Too much to take.

Son of God? Okay, that they could handle.

But Bread and Wine?

Now He crossed the line!

They couldn't abide with such metaphor. John 6:66

REALLY?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/11/18


Strong axe* Jesus used many terms that are necessarily symbolic. When he called himself the "bread of life", he was not calling himself a literal loaf of bread, and when he called himself "the vine", he was not saying he was a plant. He frequently spoke in metaphor, expecting his readers could easily tell the difference between literal and metaphorical language.

How did they response when he said whoever eats this symbolic bread will never die?

What did Jesus mean when he said this bread is my flesh for the life of the world, what this also symbolic?
---Ruben_Ruiz on 8/11/18


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