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Finish It Here August 2018

Finish It Here August 2018

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 ---Nicole_Lacey on 8/11/18
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Haz27:

It's clear that nothing I say will ever convince you of anything, and vice versa, so there's really no point in my talking to you about anything. The only thing that comes of our conversations is that you call me a communist, nazi, baby-killer, heretic, blasphemer, and who knows what else. I have been coming to this site for many years for honest discussion, but all I get from you is abuse. If you like, you can compare our numbers to see how other bloggers on this site rate the usefulness of our respective comments, and draw your own conclusions.
---StrongAxe on 8/28/18


Where in Matthew 25 is the Lambs book of life? So this is not people out of good works entering into heaven. Also Zecharaih 12-14 again, no lambs book of life selecting people entering heaven. There are those humans left after the 7 year tribulation who did not come against Israel at that time who will enter the 1000 year reign...as we see Egypt did, YET no evidence Egypt is saved. Please learn to read ALL scripture.

After the 1000 year reign Satan will be loosed again, so please know this is not heaven.

MY BRETHREN in Matthew 25 are Jesus brethren after the flesh. At that time Jesus WILL BE KING OF THE JEWS as was promised and is yet to be fulfilled. Matthew 25 is when Jesus sits on His EARTHLY THROWN here.
---kathr4453 on 8/28/18


Isaiah 32:1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness and princes shall rule in judgment.

This prophecy YET to be fulfilled, Herod KNEW and KNEW at the time he was sitting on the throne, that he was an imposter. This is why when Jesus was born that Herod wanted to have Jesus killed. This is why Joseph and Mary fled. This is WHY and WHAT Jesus was accused of ....being the Son of God who was to take that throne. YET we see in Zechariah it is the GLORIFIED CHRIST who takes the throne. It was GODS plan all along that Jesus had to suffer and die FIRST, before that could be filfilled.....it wasn't CANCELLED, because Jesus went to the cross.

The Kingdom WILL be restored at the FATHERS TIMING ...Matt 24-25 and Acts 1:6-7.
---kath4453 on 8/28/18


Matthew is NOT the Gospel of Grace! YET many saved by the Gospel of Grace don't understand Matthew. SAD. No one saved by Grace will have to poke out an eye or cut off a hand to ENTER. YET the Earthly Kingdom where it will be ruled with a rod of iron one WILL.

As a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST we don't have to cut off anything. When we died with Christ EVERY PART OF OUR BEING was CUT OFF! Our NEW MAN is created in righteousness IN CHRIST.

Can't you see the difference? If not , then one may honestly question whether you even know what being saved by Grace is all about.

ALSO WE the church will reign and rule WITH CHRIST ON EARTH at that time. No one is going to rule over anyone "in Heaven" except God alone.
---kat453 on 8/28/18


AXE. Saying it isn't so, just wont work.
You have failed yet again to justify your contradiction of the gospel.

I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when you're judged on your heretical gospel (James 3:1).

---Haz27 on 8/27/18




Haz27:

I said that what Jesus said in Matthew 25 and what Jesus said in John can both apply. He is the way in Matthew 25, and he is the way in John. There is no contradiction there.


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Because they were curious. They DIDN'T know they were feeding Jesus, giving Jesus clothes etc.

How could a Christian possibly NOT KNOW? Any Christian who has read the gospels KNOWS that if you feed the hungry you are feeding Jesus, and if you are clothing the naked you are clothing Jesus. Yet these people DID NOT know this. I wonder why not? Can you explain it?
---StrongAxe on 8/26/18


Obviously nothing is getting resolved here but name calling.

To understand Matthew 25, one must understand Matthew 24, Zechariah 12-14 along with the exact foundation doctrine for the earthly Kingdom Reign.

IF one actually read the END of Zechariah 14, you will see a REBUKE to Egypt or any nation who refuses to come to Jerusalem and worship...in jepordy of having their water cut off....

And Haz27 thinks THEY are saved by GRACE? Hardly.

BUT you all keep arguing your ignorance here.
---kathr4453 on 8/27/18


AXE. You still refuse to justify your false gospel from scripture.

Now you even make the claim that BOTH the gospel and your heresy can apply.

There is, in fact, only ONE gospel. This means the alternative gospel of AXE is a heretical lie.

God is not a liar, as your false gospel implies. JC is the ONLY WAY, hence you cant sneak in those who are anti Christ via an alternate gospel.
---Haz27 on 8/25/18


StrongAxe: Which narrator? Jesus?//

St. Matthew.

Do you think Matthew entered verses 37-39 with question marks to lie to us?Esp. V37

They already have entrance into Heaven. Why ask Jesus questions for the reason they got to Heaven?

Because they were curious. They DIDN'T know they were feeding Jesus, giving Jesus clothes etc.

//I don't recall him using the word "Christian" anywhere in this passage.//

They are called sheep. In John 10 Jesus tells us who are the sheep esp V 14

I know my sheep and my sheep know me.

Muslims, Atheists, etc DO NOT know Jesus.

Ask any Christian NOW who are feeding homeless people. They don't think they are ACTUALLY feeding Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/26/18


Strong the Sheep not knowing it was Jesus they were helping is a technique used to make the point. That they were not helping them because they were Jesus. But were helping others because they are like Jesus. Who is loving and caring.

The Parable is teaching a lesson.

I wish to take a moment. And ask all to pray for the McCain family. A good Honorable man died. I believe he was a Christian. As the old song said he lies asleep in the arms of the LORD.

AGape to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/26/18




Nicole_Lacey:

Are you claiming the Narrator is lying?

Which narrator? Jesus? I don't recall him using the word "Christian" anywhere in this passage. The assumption that these people must be Christians is one that is read into the passage - it is not stated anywhere.

They were curious and asked because they DIDN'T know HE was the hungry Man, sick Man etc.
So Christians who read the Bible are asking this questions

How could they NOT know? Any Christian who knows his bible would already KNOW about this passage, and would not need to ask!
---StrongAxe on 8/25/18


StrongAxe: if the sheep are, in fact, Christians, they would KNOW the Bible,//

Are you claiming the Narrator is lying?

Why ask a question they already knew?

Since after all they knew they were going to Heaven V34.

They were curious and asked because they DIDN'T know HE was the hungry Man, sick Man etc.

Remember this ALL takes place at the END of the world.

So Christians who read the Bible are asking this questions

//so they would not need to ask "How have we helped you, Lord?", since they would already KNOW the answer to that question.//

V44 ALSO calls Him LORD after Jesus curses them to HELL V41.

Matthew 22:12 That man KNEW he was guilty and DIDN'T ask any questions.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/25/18


Haz27:

Again and again, you focus on one scripture while ignoring another. Why can't you see that BOTH apply?
---StrongAxe on 8/25/18


Strong:

THE LORD is providing for you to know THE TRUTH that only is HIM and in HIM: "And you shall know THE TRUTH, and THE TRUTH shall make you free" . . .
Brother Haz is doing what anyone that has received Salvation through our LORD JESUS CHRIST should do and that is: Witness to those who still are away from accepting (whatever their reasons) THE SOVEREINGNITY of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST: Yes, it's a terrible offense to go along with these idolatrous and pagan religions and even mentioning their from the darkness possession and to 'tag' them with GOD'S HOLINESS!
---Melody on 8/25/18


AXE. Again you contradict God's word.

JC said in John 6:40 that the will of God is that we believe in JC.
But you contradict JC on this.

The reason why you fail to understand Matt 25:31-46 is because your spiritual ears and eyes are shut (Matt 13:13-15).

Muslims deny that JC dealt with our sin on the cross. They believe their good deeds (the 5 pillars) are to outweigh their bad deeds, for salvation.
Hindu's claim reincarnation is the way. Buddha claims there is no soul to be saved.

Thus we see your rejection of John 14:6 that JC is the ONLY WAY, is simply heresy that suggests God lied when He said JC is the ONLY WAY.
---Haz27 on 8/24/18


Strong (in THE LORD( :-) . . . and relying on my understanding of The Scriptures by asking THE LORD'S DISCERNMENT . . . my understanding about it.

Let's go back to the time when this took place. At that moment these Followers of THE LORD were asking HIM that question (of course- they haven't read any Scriptures yet)- they were themselves important part of what was going to be putting together in GOD'S WORD for the next generations and for our benefit in the increasing of our faith and belief in our SAVIOR - they were just as us, imperfect humans that by asking that question to THE LORD they needed to be assured by HIM of what exactly meant HIS PARABLE, just as we would have done right? :-) . . . GOD loves you!
---Melody on 8/25/18


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Melody:

The point that I have been making, but that Haz27 seems to have been unable to understand is that, if the sheep are, in fact, Christians, they would KNOW the Bible, so they would not need to ask "How have we helped you, Lord?", since they would already KNOW the answer to that question.
---StrongAxe on 8/24/18


Strong (in THE LORD?) - we all need that! I do appreciate your question, for that shows THE LORD is prompting you into acquiring greater and greater knowledge in the interpretation of HIS WORD and so happy to share with you in respect to that!:)

I'm praying for GOD'S WISDOM in my own interpretation for without HIS DISCERNMENT - we all can fail!

In Matthew 25: 33 thru 40 - THE LORD is referring to HIS Sheep at HIS RIGHT HAND (please review again) - in respect to them asking HIM, let's recognize that we all sinners (saved by GOD'S GRACE-THE ONLY WAY) - from beginning of time 'til the end - we'll be coming to our LORD for confirmation and re-assurance of HIS DIVINE SAYINGS!
---Melody on 8/24/18


Melody:

Then who, exactly, are the sheep in Matthew 25, and if they are Christians, why did they need to ask Jesus "how did we help you?". What is your interpretation of that parable?
---StrongAxe on 8/24/18


Haz27

You are not listening. I am not denying Jesus is the only way to salvation.

I am saying those who are saved will walk with Jesus. We are his sheep we will follow him.

Those who say and do not are hypocrites and are goats who will be lost. For they didn't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Their words were lies.

We are saved by Grace through faith alone. But those who ignore the poor are not following Jesus. They are liar and full of selfishness.

No it is not an either or situation.

Those who follow Jesus help and care for others. Those who say they follow Jesus but live for self. Are hypocrites and will not enter the Kingdom.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/24/18


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Strong Axe:

You have interpreted Matthew 25 on your own - not by the discernment that comes directly from THE LORD'S SPIRIT: THE LORD is talking about those who had the opportunity of entering GOD'S KINGDOM and that by THE ONLY WAY that is through CHRIST our LORD and by HIM being GOD HIMSELF that became MAN to die for us - HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD cleanses us from our sins/save us - anyone else cannot enter GOD'S Kingdom by their deeds - w/o THE LORD: "Our deeds are like dirty rags" - no sinner can save himself by good works!
---Melody on 8/24/18


Haz27:

Read my lips. In Matthew 25, Jesus's separation of sheep and goats is based SOLELY on those who helped others - and by doing so, have helped Jesus unawares. It is NOT based on correct belief.

Desperate? It is you who is getting desperate, trying as hard as possible to discredit this very simple message.

Muslims believe in God and Jesus, they just believe different things about them (e.g. that Jesus is not God). Hindus believe in many gods and consider Jesus to be one of many. Buddhism is a philosophy, and not actually a religion, so belief or disbelief in gods is not a part of it.

"The will of my father": The second MOST important commandment is "Love your neighbor as yourself".
---StrongAxe on 8/24/18


AXE. LOL....you truly are getting desperate tyring to justify your false gospel of salvation for those who remain anti-Christ.

Muslims, Hindu's Buddhists, Atheists, etc are anti-Christ.

But you claim that these people who reject that Jesus is the Christ somehow still receive salvation through Jesus even though they reject he is the Christ.

Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER...

And what is the will of God?

John 6:40: this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM may have everlasting life

Again we see your false gospel contradicts God's word.
---Haz27 on 8/24/18


Haz27:

You wrote: AXE. You are the one rejecting that words of Jesus in John 14:6 that NOBODY COMES TO GOD THE FATHER BUT THROUGH JESUS.

Yes, this is the EXACT POINT of Matthew 25. Anyone who helps someone is, in fact, HELPING JESUS. So they are coming to the father THROUGH JESUS.
---StrongAxe on 8/23/18


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AXE. You are the one rejecting that words of Jesus in John 14:6 that NOBODY COMES TO GOD THE FATHER BUT THROUGH JESUS.

I, on the other hand, accept those words of Jesus in John 14:6, and I recognize that in his parable he is not actually saying that people are sheep or goats, nor is Jesus saying he actually was the physically naked, hungry, thirsty, sick, stranger, and nor was he contradicting his gospel saying that anti Christ people are permitted into Heaven via an alternate salvation path of some ambiguous level of deeds helping the physically needy.

Simply, you contradict the gospel with your rejection of John 14:6.
---Haz27 on 8/23/18


Haz27:

You keep explaining away Matthew 25 by saying that its plain meaning contradicts what Jesus said earlier. To accept some words of Jesus, you reject other words of Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/18


AXE. Jesus is the way, truth, life, and NOBODY COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH JESUS (John 14:6).

But you suggest Jesus got it all wrong because anti-Christ Muslims, Atheists, Hindu's, etc don't need JC because they get to God's kingdom based on some ambiguous minimum level of good deeds to the physically needy.

AXE, you contradict the words of Jesus.

---Haz27 on 8/22/18


Haz27:

Yes, EXACTLY. Ths sheep are rewarded with GOD'S KINGDOM. Yet the sheep ask Jesus "When did we help you?" Christians WOULD ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, so why would the sheep ask it? And don't give me any of the "It was just a parable so it doesn't really mean what it says" evasions.

God's word clearly shows it's an either/or scenario.

No, it doesn't. Because you are not open to the idea that sometimes God can say two apparently contradictory things (that aren't, in fact, contradictory at all), you reject the message of Matthew 25 because it doesn't fit within your limited conceptions.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/18


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One does not know the mind of God, only through scripture and the teaching of the Holy Spirit. "Christians" today seem to judge who lives and who dies.

There are two resurrections:

When Jesus returns at the beginning of his thousand year reign, he will call for his own, the dead in Christ shall rise and the living shall be caught up with them.

The second resurrection at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ all the other dead from all of history rise and be judged from the book of life according to their works - some to everlasting death and some to everlasting life. Revelation 20

So, where do you suppose these non-christians will live?

Blessed are those that rise in the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 8/22/18


SAMUEL. Are you saying doctrines which deny that Jesus is the only way of salvation are somehow not heretical?

AXE. Matt 25 says sheep are rewarded with GOD'S KINGDOM (like thief on the cross). Sheep are the righteous who get eternal life (verse 46). But goats get everlasting punishment.

Your false doctrine that claims there are 2 ways to God's kingdom contradicts John 14:6 which says Jesus is the only way to God the Father.

It's our faith in JC that counts for righteousness (Rom4:5), and clearly nothing in scripture says that those who reject JC but instead do some good physical deeds to a physically needy person are then deemed as righteous.

God's word clearly shows it's an either/or scenario.
---Haz27 on 8/21/18


Really Steveng, God specifically wants only the good hearted to procreate? So you think nice people give birth to nice people? Not according to scripture. All one has to do is look at the lineage of the Kings of Israel to see that Godly Kings had offspring to EVIL sons who became Kings. Even with the Levitical Priesthood, not all sons of Priests who carried on the Priesthood, (YES these were the offspring of those from the tribe of Levi, ) were automatically good either.

And then we see in Zechariah 12-14 what parents are going to do with any offspring that as much as falsely prophecies....

Steveng, you have some strange beliefs.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/18


Why make knowing God's purpose so complicated?

All God wants are people who have a good, loving heart to populated his kingdom.
---Steveng on 8/21/18


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Dear Haz27 I don't see Axe being heretical.

To do that he would have to say the acts earn heaven.


If a person says they love you and then steals from you they do not love you. So a person who says they love others and then does not help them is not showing love.

A true Christians will love and help others. Like a good fig tree produces figs.

Luk 13:7

Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down, why cumbereth it the ground?

Hypocrites say they are Christians but produce no fruit.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/21/18


Haz27:

Why do you CONSTANTLY put words in my mouth, and then condemn me for them? Please respond to what I ACTUALLY SAY.

Jesus specifically said the thief on the cross would be with him in paradise, so of course he will be there. I am not rejecting the gospels. But Jesus ALSO said the sheep in Matthew 25 were rewarded. Why isn't it possible for you to accept BOTH? Why does it have to be either/or? You should accept EVERYTHING Jesus says, not just pick the verses you like as you would in a buffet.
---StrongAxe on 8/21/18


SAMUEL. As you can see in the recent post from AXE, again he rejects the gospel of God's kingdom.

For AXE, the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did not enter God's kingdom because he did not do any good deeds to the physically needy.

For AXE the gospel message we see throughout the Bible is redundant as deeds is what gets us to heaven.

Maybe AXE thinks Jesus was lying when he commanded we believe in him (John 3:16).

Beware the leaven (heretical doctrine) of AXE.
---Haz27 on 8/20/18


Dear StrongAxe I disagree with you. kinda of. Those who go to heaven Love GOD and love others. Those who do not help others fail in the second part.

You are correct he does not get the message. Saying you love others then not doing the action. Shows you do not love others. Like a husband who says he loves his wife. Then beats her and commits adultery. He is lying.


It is called being a Hypocrite.

Love works.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/18


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Samuelbb7:

I understand that. His decision on whom to eternally reward vs. damn is based entirely on whether or not they helped others or not. Not on having the correct faith. Not on believing the correct religion. Not on knowing the correct theology. Not having performed the correct rituals. It was based SOLELY on their acts of compassion. Yet Haz27 doesn't seem to understand this. He calls it a parable, but doesn't get its message.

Jesus said "By their fruits you will know them". You can tell if someone does the Will of the Father by his actions. Paul said that even though Gentiles don't have the Law, they are a Law unto themselves. They operate based on the Law God wrote on their hearts.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/18


HAZ27, Matthew 25 DOES NOT and IS NOT the Great White a Throne Judgement. The problem is, if you don't believe in the Kingdom reign on earth and who after the 7 year tribulation will be allowed to enter this earthly kingdom reign, with earthly people who lived through ..please see Zechariah 12-14, this takes place 1000 + years BEFORE the Great White Throne Judgement.

And if you don't believe in the translation of the CHURCH before the 7 year Tribulation, then you won't get it. KINGDOM LAW, Much like the Law of Moses is not based on GRACE. Even those Nations during the 1000 years , again see Zechariah 14 , are not necessarily saved. After the 1000 years Satan will be loosed AGAIN, ....
---kathr4453 on 8/20/18


Strong Ax the point of a parable is to teach a lesson. The lesson was we are to see Jesus in all the people we help. The Jews were having a hard time accepting Gentiles and Samaritans as not dogs.

Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39,40 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Jesus became a human being. We are all his brothers and sisters.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/18


Dear Haz my mistake. I am sorry. I was agreeing with you.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/18


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Samuelbb7:

Then why did the sheep in Matthew 25 ask Jesus "when did we do that for you?" Surely Christians would already have known the answer to that question.
---StrongAxe on 8/20/18


SAMUEL & KATHR. Read my posts again as you seem to have misunderstood them.

SAMUEL. It was AXE who is claiming through Matt 25 that non-Christians can enter God's kingdom just by doing some good physical deeds to the physically needy.

KATHR. I agree Matt 25 refers to the great white throne judgement.
If you read my posts again you'll see that the topic was about how the false doctrine of AXE claims that good physical deeds allows those who reject salvation through JC to still enter God's kingdom.
I opposed this false doctrine of AXE.
---Haz27 on 8/20/18


Haz Matthew 25 is not teaching that non Christians can get into heaven for doing good deeds.

It is teaching that those who say they are Christians but do not do good deeds are hypocrites and not Christians.

When Jesus walked the earth he did good things to everyone. Why? Because he loves everyone.

Who are we to love and be good to? Everyone. Why because we love everyone.

Love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus said and we do.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/19/18


Nicole, oh yes, Israel will be judged. I never said they wouldn't. But this goes back to what God spoke to Abraham...."I WILL BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS YOU, AND CURSE THOSE WHO CURSE YOU." Referring to the Jewish people. That promise still stands.

And yes thank you for KNOWING even in The end..."Israel the Nation"
was not replaced by the Church.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/18


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Nicole_Lacey:

A common belief is, if you do more good than evil, you go to heaven, and hell if vice versa. Even in majority Christian America, or Europe with many churches but few Christians.

When people see evangelists driving Mercedes to from their mansions to their yachts while people next door go hungry, or priests who diddle children, instead of being prosecuted, getting quietly moved to other parishes where they do it again, they rightly observe "This is wrong", and conclude "I want no part of such an evil and hypocritical religion". They aren't seeing the gospel either, but only Christianity's ugly side.

Gandhi said he liked Jesus but not Christians - and all people see is Christians, not Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 8/19/18


Haz even you got it wrong. You have no right to throw stones at another.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/18


Kathr: Matthew 25:40 And the KING shall say to them
Can anyone see this is NOT the Great White Throne Judgement?..GENTILE NATIONS who DID NOT come against Israel during the Tribulation.//

??? I don't know you are trying to convey, but I think if you back up to V31

Jesus clearly states When the Son of Man (Him) comes in His Glory, and all the angels with him, He will sit upon His Glorious Throne, all the nations will be assembled before him.

All nations includes the Jewish people. Israel is a Nations.

Like in Matthew 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of ALL nation, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of The Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Are you suggestion Jesus didn't want the Jews included?
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/19/18


AXE. Yet again you deflect, and even obfuscate, to avoid having to deal with your contradiction of the gospel. Im not surprised.

You even went further to liken your contradiction of the gospel as a //New truth//...LOL.

The absurd gospel of AXE is that anti-Christ Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, etc can all enter the kingdom of God, without Jesus Christ, simply based on some good deeds of helping the physically needy.
A //New Truth// from Axe being, just do some physical good deeds, without faith in JC = entry into the kingdom of God...LOL.

Did you get this heretical doctrine from some cult, or is it your own creation?
---Haz27 on 8/18/18


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Matthew 25:40 And the KING shall say to them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Can anyone see this is NOT the Great White Throne Judgement?

Also right before verse 40 it says the KING, that is Jesus here on earth, who has gathered THE NATIONS BEFORE HIM. This is called the Judgement of the Nations, GENTILE NATIONS who DID NOT come against Israel during the Great Tribulation. Zechariah 12-14.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the 1000 year millinnial reign. The Kingdom of God, remember is WITHIN YOU.

This is NOT the Gospel we are saved by as INDIVIDUALS during this age of GRACE.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/18


StrongAxe, you rejected my Matt 25 explanation.

That's the same nonsense here:

StrongAxe: Most people who reject Jesus do so because they haven't REALLY heard the gospel to understand it//

What? The gospel is simple Jesus became Man, died for us and rose on the 3rd day.

Either you heard it or not.

But you can't say they didn't REALLY.

That's like saying I'm not REALLY pregnant.

Either your or not.

//they've just heard some imperfect presentation that drove them away.//

No, they heard it but didn't SEE it in the person's life. A difference.

Gandhi said he like Jesus and would have converted to Christianity but didn't because he couldn't find a Christian that behaved like Jesus
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/18/18


Haz27:

I HAVE explained - Matt 25 Righteous are rewarded for good deeds DESPITE not knowing they're doing Jesus's will - Christians WOULD know. PROVE this wrong, from Matt 25.

Dialectic takes two seemingly contradictory statements (thesis and antithsis), leading to a new truth (synthesis). The gospels often do this. Jesus often mentions works ("By their fruits you will know them"). Paul stresses faith alone. James says faith+works. Jesus said "anyone not against us is for us" but later "anyone not for us is against us" - yielding "everybody is for or against - you can't be neutral". Jesus said "sell your sword and buy a cloak", but later "sell your cloak and buy a sword".
---StrongAxe on 8/18/18


AXE. Your constant deflections to avoid answering questions on your heretical contradiction of God's gospel, has gone on for almost one year.

FYI, parables are MADE UP stories used to illustrate a spiritual message.
Thus Jesus wasn't actually the needy person, nor were the people being judged actual sheep or goats, and nor was it describing a future where actual Christians were ignorant of helping a needy Jesus.
Instead it uses these characterizations to highlight the criteria that separates saved from the unsaved.

I've shown how Matt 25 supports the gospel.

But you argue that Matt 25 contradicts the gospel, yet you stubbornly refuse to explain why.
---Haz27 on 8/17/18


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Hello Steven.

Some are steven. But many churches are reaching out to the world and seeking the lost. The Gospel is to be preached to everyone on this planet. Sadly not all are doing this. In that way they are like the Hebrews who did not tell the world.

In Romans 2 Paul speaks of those who follow GOD in ignorance. They love others and love GOD but lack knowledge. They will be saved by the blood of Jesus. I what we teach and I believe.

The do the will of GOD. Just not all.

GOD is love. I also believe Hell destroys the wicked.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/18


Haz27:

Stop deflecting again. Just answer the one simple question I have been asking you again and again for months but that you have never actually addressed:

If the righteous in Matthew 25 are Christians, WHY would they ask Jesus "How did we help you?". Any Christians would ALREADY KNOW the answer to that question and not have to ask.
---StrongAxe on 8/17/18


AXE. Again you deflect.

What Matt 25 refers to is works that shows our faith (James 2:14-18).

Christians preach gospel to SPIRITUALLY needy (the lost), as we were saved by faith and we also want lost souls to be saved.

But Atheists, etc who may do good physical deeds, do not have this faith, nor do they share the gospel to the spiritually needy/lost.

To BELIEVE ON JESUS is gospel, John 3:16, It's the will of God, John 6:40. It's the works we do, John 6:29. Unbelief in Jesus is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

My understanding of Matt 25 does not contradict these scriptures.

Your Matt 25 doctrine does contradict these scriptures, which is why you always deflect.
---Haz27 on 8/17/18


For Samuel and Strongaxe, in Matthew 24-25, unfortunately many don't believe in an earthly kingdom restored to Israel, that will be for 1000 years, ...again this is not heaven, since at the end of those 1000 years Satan will be loosed again. Those who come through the great tribulation, who did not come against Israel PLEASE SEE ZECHARIAH 12-14, will enter into that kingdom. Jesus is reiterating ..re MY BRETHREN as the Jews who are the sole target of the Great Tribulation. After the Tribulation, As you see Jesus as KING is on the earth at that time.

There is no mention of any Lambs book of Life mentioned, in Matthew 24-25 as does Revelation AFTER the 1000 years are ended.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/18


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Why are christians so vain to think that God's word is only for them. Christians today are acting just like the hebrews of the OT.

In the OT, God approached the hebrews asking them to spread His word throughout the world. They failed, thinking it was only for them.

Today's christians failed, too, thinking that eternal life was only for them.

2 Peter 3:9 isn't only for the christians, but for all of mankind. God's mercy extends to all of mankind, not only the christians.
---Steveng on 8/16/18


What about the millions upon millions of people throughout all of history who have never heard of God nor of Jesus?

Is your loving God going to punish these people who did the will of God not knowing it was the will of God?

Is your just God going to punish these people who did the will of God not knowing it was the will of God?
---Steveng on 8/15/18


Haz27:

Stop deflecting. I takj aviyt Matthew 25, so please explain MATTHEW 25. Explain WHY the righteous ask Jesus how they helped him? Christians would KNOW the gospel. Despite asking this question repeatedly for several months, you NEVER answered it (other than explained it away as a parable, so Jesus didn't REALLY mean what he said). Melody and Nicole_Lacey have not explained this either.

Jesus said that "inasmuch as you have done it to these, you have done it unto me" - that is. if we feed someone who is hungry, it is AS IF we fed Jesus. Jesus isn't hungry, but THEY ARE.

Even if this IS referring only to salvation, WHY would Christians need to ask how they helped? They would already know!
---StrongAxe on 8/16/18


In Romans 2 Paul writes about
Gentiles who in ignorance follow Jesus. They are loving and kind. But have false doctrine.

But we are not saved by Doctrine. We are saved by the Grace of GOD alone. Jesus knows those who if they had heard the gospel would have accepted it.

When we help the poor and downtrodden like Matthew 25 says. We are showing the Love of others that is the fruit of being a Christian.

Those who do not love others are not followers of Jesus. No matter what words they use.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/16/18


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AXE. Again you contradict gospel.

The gospel is BELIEVE ON JESUS, John 3:16.
The will of God is we BELIEVE ON JESUS, John 6:40.
Our works are BELIEVE ON JESUS, John 6:29.

The sin the world is convicted of is UNBELIEF IN JESUS, John 16:9.

But YOU contradict this, and you've long been deflecting to avoid being confronted about this.

Matt 25 is a parable, which those who are spiritually blind/deaf (Matt 13:13-15), like you, will not understand. Jesus was not actually the hungry, thirsty, naked, stranger. Instead it's a message related in a parable.

The hungry. thirsty, naked, strangers, etc refers to the lost (as scripture shows), hence we see the sheep preached the gospel to the lost.

---Haz27 on 8/15/18


Haz27:

Deflecting? Haven't you been paying attention? In Matthew 25, the righteous were selected, NOT because of their correct faith, but SOLELY on one criterion - whether they helped others. AGAIN, for the umpteenth time, how do you explain how this is possible? Why would the righteous in Matthew 25 as, "How did we help you Lord?" if they were Christians, because Christians would ALREADY KNOW the answer to that question?


jerry6593:

Of course. Courts are frequently just theater where judgment is pronounced openly, having already been determined beforehand. Names were written in the Book before it was opened. In our legal system, prosecutors usually don't bring charges unless they're likely to prevail at trial.
---StrongAxe on 8/15/18


AXE. I'm still waiting for you to explain your false doctrine that claims that anti-Christ Muslims, Atheists, Buddhists, etc gain entry into God's kingdom simply based on doing some good physical deeds for the physically needy?

Perhaps you can also explain why you have been persistently deflecting (over many months) to avoid answering this question.

Obviously you fear being confronted and exposed over your contradiction of the gospel of God's kingdom, but you can't keep deflecting for much longer.

---Haz27 on 8/15/18


Steveng: "The second at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ when all the other dead from all of history rise and be judged from the book of life according to their works - some to everlasting death and some to everlasting life."

Not quite. Only the wicked are raised in the second resurrection, and are subsequently destroyed in the lake of fire that destroys Satan & his angels and cleanses the earth. The Judgement must necessarily have been completed BEFORE Jesus return or He wouldn't have chosen who to raise in the first resurrection.


---jerry6593 on 8/15/18


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\\The first is when Jesus returns at the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ when the dead in Christ shall rise and the living shall be caught up with the dead.\\

There is no such thing as a literal earthly millennium, Ssteveng.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
---Cluny on 8/14/18


Oops! I meant:

Atheists do not believe in God. This includes people who have heard about Jesus but reject him, and those who have not heard of him.
---StrongAxe on 8/14/18


Nicole_Lacey:

No. Christians who read Matthew 25 would NOT ask that question, because they ALREADY know the answer.

Atheists believe in God. This includes people who have heard about Jesus but reject him, and those who have not heard of him. Most people who reject Jesus do so because they haven't REALLY heard the gospel to understand it - they've just heard some imperfect presentation that drove them away. Perhaps there's a church on the corner that preaches fire and brimstone, but won't feed them when they're hungry. They rightly reason "I would never worship a cruel and heartless god like these people do." They're not rejecting Jesus. They're rejecting a false pseudo-Jesus projected by a false church.
---StrongAxe on 8/14/18


StrongAxe, Saul was a believer as a Jew, he just didn't think Jesus was the promised Messiah. That's why Jesus could trust him after He showed Himself to him.

I think I understand your argument.

Christians TODAY read Matt 25

By that logic, both groups have to be Christians

All I am saying is that Atheists can't go to Heaven based on how they treat others. Maybe those who haven't heard the Gospel by no fault of their own.

Atheists reject Jesus after hearing about Him claiming there isn't a God so Jesus can't be a God.

Atheists are not sheep.

Remember sheep follow the Shepard.

John 10:27-30

Atheists do not follow Jesus so they are NOT the sheep Jesus allows into His Kingdom.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/13/18


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Allow me to lay this debate to rest. There are two resurrections:

The first is when Jesus returns at the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ when the dead in Christ shall rise and the living shall be caught up with the dead.

The second at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ when all the other dead from all of history rise and be judged from the book of life according to their works - some to everlasting death and some to everlasting life. Revelation 20

Blessed are those that rise in the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 8/12/18


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: No, just as Saul in Acts 9 didn't know he was personally persecuting Jesus.

Exactly! Because at that time, he was not a believer!

The sheep didn't realize they were helping Jesus, when helping their neighbors.

Exactly! Yet Christians WOULD know this, because it's in Matthew 25.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/18


AXE. Because Jesus was speaking in parables, that's why. And it's obvious really. But then your spiritual ears and eyes are closed anyway, hence why you fail to understand God's word (Matt 13:13-15, 1Cor 2:14).

Now back to the question you keep on avoiding. Your heretical doctrine clearly contradicts the gospel.

For almost the past year I've been trying to get you to justify your doctrine that contradicts the gospel, and you constantly deflect to avoid doing so.

Maybe it's time you stop running away. You need to justify your false doctrine.
---Haz27 on 8/12/18


StrongAxe: Matthew 25 "Sheep and Goats" parable, who, exactly, are the righteous that Jesus rewards? If they are believers, why would they ask him how they helped him, since believers should ALREADY have known the answer to that question.//

No, just as Saul in Acts 9 didn't know he was personally persecuting Jesus.

In Matthew, Jesus explained that being a Christian and ignoring others isn't getting you into Heaven. As James 2:14-16

The sheep didn't realize they were helping Jesus, when helping their neighbors.

The goats didn't know they were mistreating Jesus just by NOT helping others.

I am sure the goats would have giving Jesus water, food, clothes, care for Him when sick and visited Him in prison.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/12/18


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Haz27:

Again, you refuse to explain how believers would need to ask Jesus how they helped him, since they ought to already know the answer to that question.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/18


NICOLE. Sadly, AXE follows a heretical doctrine that most here have rightly opposed him on.

As you noticed, AXE preaches his hereacy that Atheists, anti-Christ Muslims, Buddhists, etc gain entry into the kingdom of God, simply because of some good deeds they did to the physically needy (his distortion of Matt 25).

When AXE is confronted about how his heretical teaching contradicts the gospel, he resorts to his trademark tactics of deflection, obfuscation, etc.

AXE refuses to address the issue of his contradiction of the gospel, and he is too scared to ever do so.
---Haz27 on 8/11/18


Nicole_Lacey:

I will ask you the same question I asked Haz27 and Melody, but never got a satisfactory reply. In the Matthew 25 "Sheep and Goats" parable, who, exactly, are the righteous that Jesus rewards? If they are believers, why would they ask him how they helped him, since believers should ALREADY have known the answer to that question.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/18


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