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Who Will Be Raptured

Who will be Raptured, if indeed there is a rapture?

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 ---Johnny74 on 10/5/18
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The Church will be raptured, when the last person has been saved and completes the boC. Israel is going to remain blinded "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in"
The fulness of the Gentiles is the boC.
Paul said "Behold, I show you a mystery,"
It couldn't be a mystery, if it was disclosed in Zech 14 and Acts 1
Paul said "But I would not have you to be ignorant,"
They were ignorant because they were hearing something entirely new.
---michael_e on 10/16/18


Covenant Theology is Calvinism. I've just never heard of an SDA Calvinist. To me, that's a strange mix, I can't even see working along side the SDA or vice versa.

I will agree many who believe in the pretrib rapture believe so because this is what their churches have taught them. And it's unfortunate they are being taught they will escape persecution...which makes me wonder if they have ever suffered persecution. I also know many who don't even know the gospel say they will be raptured, and that's unfortunate as well. Just because someone says their saved doesn't mean they are going to heaven either. What people say is not the issue. What GOD SAID is all that matters. We are saved from the WRATH TO COME.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/18


\\
The pretribulation rapture states the church will be taken out of the earth before the persecution.\\

At the Mystical Supper, Jesus prayed, "I ask that you not take them out of this world, but keep them safe from the evil one."

The rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus. You take us out of this world."

The Protestant hymnographer Isaac Watts wrote, "Shall I be carried to the clouds on flow'ry beds of ease/while other fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas?"

The rapturist writes, "You darn tootin' had better believe it."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/18


Kathyr. I agree persecution is going on now. It has been ongoing for thousands of years.

The pretribulation rapture states the church will be taken out of the earth before the persecution. But as you point out. That is going on now. So it cannot be persecution. But the rapture teaches it is persecution.

True the BOC and Israel the nation are different. But I agree with Covenant theology. Not Dispensationalism. So no pretrib rapture.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/16/18


As I have previously said, I'm not a pre-mil pre-trib dispensationalist.

This does not mean I'm a mocker saying, "Where is the promise of His coming?"

Remember that the Bible experts of 2000 years ago had it worked out according to their reading of the Scriptures what the Messiah would do when he came. Well, He came, He didn't follow their agenda for Him, and so they rejected Him.

I believe that the prophesies of Christ's second coming will be fulfilled as literally--and totally unexpectedly--as those of his first coming.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/18




Samuel, the time of Gods wrath has nothing to do with persecution, it has to do with "VENGENCE BELONGS TO ME, I WILL REPAY" says the Lord. Gods wrath or vengence is not persecution ....why can't folks understand this?

OUR time of persecution is NOW, right NOW, from the day of Pentecost to TODAY. The time of Jacob's trouble is something altogether different. Its called "The day of the Lord," or the day of HIS WRATH. All through out the OT is warnings of THE DAY OF THE LORD. Its not gonna be pretty.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/18


Cluny, please go back and re- read that post. That prophesy belongs to earthly Israel. I'm not part of that either. Not all prophecy is directed to the BOC aka THE CHURCH. Like scripture states, Gods wrath , also a "PROPHECY" is not directed towards HIS BODY, BRIDE, CHRIST HIMSELF, since we are IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/18


Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

You see Trey, for those IN CHRIST, it's already a done deal. All we are waiting for is our new Glorified bodies. We are already a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST.

If you can't understand what it means to be IN CHRIST, then maybe you are not IN CHRIST to begin with. But those IN CHRIST have already been translated out of this evil world. Heaven is NOW our home, just like Colossians 3:1-4 state. Just waiting for our glorified bodies. We've already been TRIED AND TESTED AND WE HAVE ALREADY SUFFERED. Those IN CHRIST that is.
---kath4453 on 10/13/18


Some History.

Some Churches taught for awhile the world would get better then Jesus would come.

Others taught the opposite but both placed the Second Coming as when the church is caught up.

Then Darby and Dispensationalism came it. It proposed a pretribulation rapture of the church in the 1900's.

We have been arguing about that ever since.

I don't believe in Dispensationalism. So to me no pretrib rapture.

The church has always been persecuted and is being persecuted. We need to remember that.

Those who believe in the pretrib. Will still be saved as long as they follow Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/13/18


\\SORRY YOU ARE NOT PART OF THAT PROPHECY. \\

Where did you get the idea that you were, kathr?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/12/18




Trey, the actual word is "translate". Also TRINITY is not in scripture either, so should we deny its existance. Just as Enoch was TRANSLATED, so too will the Church, aka the BOC be. So yes, it is in scripture. Enoch represents those of the raptured or translated saints. Noah represents those saved during the Great Tribulation. Notice that Enoch was the 7th generation from Adam. 7 also meaning Complete.

THE Great Trib AKA THE WRATH OF GOD, we have been given assurance we are SAVED FROM THE WRATH TO COME. THE BOC will not be put through Gods Wrath on the disobedient.

But if you don't believe in OSAS, then maybe that's why you think your assurance needs to be tested with GODS WRATH, not Satan's.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/18


Also Trey, the final judgement is AFTER the 1000 year reign. The resurrection of the righteous takes place before the 1000 years. The rapture takes place pre OR MID- Trib. What we know is before the Bowles of WRATH. REV:10:7 say the MYSTERY OF GOD IS COMPLETED, ( which is THE CHURCH also see Colossians 2 along with Colossians 1:24-27,) which actually may be the time called "the fullness of the Gentiles" Romans 11. And then God will turn to earthly Israel, to fulfill His promises to her which includes HIS WRATH, promised to visit upon them since the Golden calf issue. Genesis 49 will also be fulfilled. SORRY YOU ARE NOT PART OF THAT PROPHECY.

Then remember Satan will be loosed after the 1000 years.
---kath4453 on 10/12/18


//He returns to EARTH, and we are caught up to escort Him.//
BCV Please
---michael_e on 10/12/18


kathr, 1 Thess says that the Lord DESCENDS, not does a U-turn in mid-air.

He returns to EARTH, and we are caught up to escort Him.

So say the ancient expositors on this passage.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/12/18


1. The word rapture is not in the scriptures.
2. 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thes 4 are the clearest references to the second coming of Christ when all the dead shall be raised and those of us alive will be changed.
3. The final judgement will be on that day.
4. After the final judgement we shall either be with Christ forever or we will burn in hell for all eternity.
---trey on 10/11/18


Actually Cluny, it may be just the opposite . Those left behind will be deceived into believing the anti_Christ is Christ and will bow down and worship him. That is what anti_Christ means. An IMPOSTER. And according to Thesselonians he will come with Lying signs and wonders, that Only those who have not obeyed the gospel will believe the lie. The Lord already told us WHO WILL BE DECEIVED.

Well the Gospel of Grace is about the Mystery of God, as seen in Colossians 1:24-17, and the beginning of Colossians 2, referring to THE CHURCH, those In Christ, WILL meet the Lord in the clouds and will forever be with the Lord. So since You don't believe this, it may possibly be you here worshiping the beast.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/18


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Amen Jerry and Cluny there is no pretrib taking away of the church.

We look forward to the Second coming. Matthew 24 shows the truth. Millions have died for the gospel. But some now say that is not happening again. Right now Christians are dying for their faith.

Melody good point.

1John 2:3,4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/11/18


The rapture brings all true grace age believers, whether living or dead, together forever. It's "that blessed hope" (Titus 2:13) which will bring us together with our Lord, the head of the body. It motivates us to watch in faith, love, and hope (1 Thess 5:6-8). It's a comfort to us (1 Thess 4:18) It rescues us from the wrath that God is about to pour out upon those on the earth in the tribulation. It fulfills prophecy of 1 Thess 4:13-18. It ends this dispensation of grace by removing the church from the earth. Then God focus's on the nation of Israel the seven years which is the last week of years in the 70 weeks or years described in Daniel 9:24-27.
---michael_e on 10/11/18


Michael, the passages you gave are talking about the same event as Matthew 25: that is, when Christ returns for the Last Judgement.

There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture. Those waiting for it will be among the first to fall down and worship the Beast.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/11/18


The rapture is completely different wording than the second coming, you really have try to miss it.
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
---michael_e on 10/10/18


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Melody
There are so many doctrines today because most all of them are founded on Pauls letters, not the Gospel of Christ. Peter clearly warned folks against doing this, but they ignored his warning.

Its a bit crazy because I can see Pauls letters are founded on the Gospel of Christ, but these false doctrines are not. For example, (John 14:21).
If Jesus taught this in a church today...he would be accused of teaching Works...and shown the door.

It does no good to tell folks they follow a false doctrine. They must be able to see it for themselves in the Lords Gospel. Unfortunately, many dont believe the Author of Salvation.
---David on 10/11/18


Johnny:

I do agree with you that the way it's written sometimes it bring confusion, but what he meant to say is this: "That THE LORD IS SAVIOUR to all (meaning that HE came to give salvation to all - those who believed and those who wouldn't believe - "And to those who received HIM - HE gave them eternal life") = but of course, as you can prove the meaning in different sections of The Bible - "Repent and be saved - believe in THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and you shall be saved" - that's the condition that THE LORD expects from the soul!

Blessings . . . and hope that my words in some way were helpful! :)
---Melody on 10/9/18


Very plain this is the second coming, but it does take a little study.
Zech 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
---michael_e on 10/9/18


David: In respect of what you said about 'The Law' - THE LORD'S CONFIRMATION about It is: "If you love ME, keep MY COMMANDMENTS" - and why many in this world that consider themselves Christians - they choose their 'own made up Gospel' - that as long as they 'believe' - they can go and sin and then comeback and ask repentance - just as those pagan religions deceiving their spiritually blind worshippers: "Confess your sins with another man as sinful as you or worse and then "go and sin more" . . .
what a terrible judgment is awaiting them - for multitudes of victims are in their eternal record = "The blind leading the blind" - and all walking the crooked and dark road that leads unto perdition
---Melody on 10/9/18


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The Law comes from GOD and the only way that man can fulfill The Law/s - it's by having The Born Again experience ---Melody

Melody
I agree, if you are referring to the born again experience described in (1 John 3:9-10) KJV. This is the experience I had, and experience I share with few.

Without the experience, I too would not have believed it was possible, no matter what the passage in the KJV says. As a matter of fact, not being a Bible reader or church goer at the time, I didnt know what had happened when it did.

That was 20 years ago, and the Holy Spirit has since shown me why God chose me. I was not anything special at the time, I was simply chosen, because I followed the Holy Spirit down the right path.
---David on 10/10/18


Nicole: "Jesus is ONLY returning ONCE!"

Correct!

And there's absolutely nothing "secret" about it. "EVERY eye shall see Him", He will come with a SHOUT. As lightening flashes from the east to the west. None of this appears "secret" such that some will see it and others will not.

The righteous "raptured" will ascend to meet Him in the air, while the living wicked will be killed by the "brightness of His coming".

At least, that's what the Bible says. It is indeed a shame that some prefer the doctrines of men rather than that of Christ.


---jerry6593 on 10/10/18


You all are making up Scriptures!

Shame on all of you!

Jesus is ONLY returning ONCE!
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/9/18


Melody

God cannot be the savior of people who are not saved. So if he is the savior of all men, then all men will be saved. Iron-clad logic.
---Johnny74 on 10/9/18


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1 Timothy 4: 10: "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in THE LIVING GOD, WHO IS THE SAVIOR of all men, especially of those who believe". - and what is his message on this verse? - (as many other places on The Scriptures) . . . that THE LORD came to saved anyone - "For GOD so loved the world" (all sinners) - but only to them who have accepted GOD'S GIFT OF SALVATION - 'to them, HE gave them the blessing of becoming Children of GOD" - and to emphasize that: "Many are called, few are chosen" . . . he is not saying all those who reject HIM for whatever under their sinfulness they might do!
---Melody on 10/9/18


Responses.

Amen David. Amen Melody. Michael the second coming is the rapture.
Johnny Peter preached repentance.

Kathr. Translations of the Saints is the Second Coming Matthew 24.
Correct Calvinism is not correct.
Yes we must repent.

Love to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/9/18


David:

We were all born in sin, since those two human beings disobeyed GOD (too bad, for all of us) and of course, The Law comes from GOD and the only way that man can fulfill The Law/s - it's by having The Born Again experience - for is through HIS SPIRIT POWER that anyone can be victorious about it - that doesn't mean that we in ourselves could be perfect as Paul said: "We constantly have a battle between THE SPIRIT and the flesh" and until the leaving of this earthly body:- for THE ONLY ONE - THE LORD GOD in the Human Form - has been THE ONLY PERFECT HUMAN BEING and under HIS COVERING we should trust and obey!
---Melody on 10/9/18


Melody

That's not exactly what I meant. See 1 Timothy 4:10
---Johnny74 on 10/9/18


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Yes, THE LORD decides whom is saved or not by true repentance that HE can only see in every heart - of course - HE is given every soul the opportunity to become saved ---Melody

Melody
I agree, but to repent one must turn from sin. How can you turn from sin when you are not under the Law, when Sin is the transgression of the Law? Without the Law, there can be no sin.

The majority of Christians believe they are not under the Law. What Law? That Law which Gods Holy Spirit puts into our minds and writes upon our hearts.

This misinterpretation of Pauls teaching causes folks to turn from the Law...not from sin.
---David on 10/9/18


Johnny, you said: //"The New Testament makes very clear whom GOD will save and it has nothing to do what you believe or If you repent"//

I'm assuming that what you meant to say is perfectly in accordance of what THE LORD says in HIS WORD in 1 John 5: 10 = "He that believes on THE SON OF GOD, has the witness in himself - he that believe not GOD, had made himself a liar, because he believes not the record that GOD gave of HIS SON". And this is the record, that GOD has given to us eternal life and this life is in HIS SON" . . . So what you meant to say: No other beliefs or repentances through false doctrines has nothing to do GOD salvation - right?
---Melody on 10/9/18


Dont listen to man, listen to God.


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

I also DO BELIEVE that "DO BELIEVE " is stated many times in scripture.
You can't receive Him if you don't BELIEVE HIM!
---kathr4453 on 10/9/18


The rapture of the church is not a prophetic end time event.(1 Cor 15:51,52, 1 Thess 4:13-18) There are no signs of this mystery (secret) return, all signs are for his prophetic second return (Zech 14, Acts 1:10,11) These scripture describe two different happenings unless you believe in a U turn theory
or twist them to say the same thing
One is prophesied one is not
---michael_e on 10/8/18


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The New Testament makes it very clear whom God will save. And it has nothing to do with what you believe or if you repent.
---Johnny74 on 10/8/18


I believe, if not mistaken that David is talking about Calvinism. Which is another erroneous doctrine of cherry picking verses to creatively come up with that doctrine. These do not believe in free will, and say God chose who He wanted to save, and chose who He wants to send to Hell, before anyone was ever born.

Yet Romans 10 , among many other books and verses totally destroy that philosophy.

Faith comes by HEARING, THE WORD OF GOD, not by God having respect of persons.
---kathr4453 on 10/8/18


And David:

If I should repeat myself: Yes, THE LORD decides whom is saved or not by true repentance that HE can only see in every heart - of course - HE is given every soul the opportunity to become saved - sadly: Many are deceived by false doctrines that teach erroneously that by just 'believing and mentioning' THE LORD'NAME and by 'repeating prayers' they can become saved - but no true repentance before THE LORD and so in sinfulness they keep on living, as they haven't been regenerated by THE LORD'S GRACE AND SPIRIT within them - very sad it is!
---Melody on 10/8/18


Johnny to believe in the Protestant Rapture you must believe Jesus will return 1 and 1/2 times.

Jesus said He is only returning once and that's it.

Jesus is returning once and that's it.

That's why we only say His 2nd coming.

Note the Good Samaritan Parable Luke 10:25-37 is based on Jesus' returning once.

The man is you and I
Robbers are the demons
The Levite and Priests are those who were placed in charge in the OT.

Samaritan is Jesus
Donkey is Jesus' Cross

The Inn keeper and Inn is Peter and the Church.

Money left by the Samaritan is the price of the man's care (our Salvation paid by Jesus)

The Samaritan said he will return for the man is Jesus' 2nd coming.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/8/18


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David: You have misinterpreted John 14: 21-Melody

Melody
I never gave you my interpretation. I gave you a verse to read, and after reading it, you disagree with who said it. I did not say it...Jesus did. So be honest with yourself, you do not agree with what Jesus said.
---David on 10/8/18


If churches can invent or discard various doctrines over the centuries, there's no way to get at the truth. It's all subjective.
---Johnny74 on 10/7/18

I do hope you were making a funny here.

Those who are saved and are of the spiritual body of Christ, are given the mind of Christ, have been taught DOCTRINE by our very Lord Himself, who is made UNTO US, wisdom and knowledge of Him..

Sounds like many here have never experienced Pauls prayer FOR YOU TOO, in Ephesians 3:14-21. The Lord is our HEAD where that wisdom and knowledge is passed down to its members.

Hope you all can discern the difference between the TRANSLATION of the Saints ( please read both books of Thesselonians ) from the Secomd Coming...
---kathr4453 on 10/8/18


"And then at last the signal of MY coming will appear in The Heavens and will be deep mourning on the earth. And the nations of the world will see ME arrive in the clouds of Heaven, with Power and great Glory". Matthew 24: 30,31

"And I shall send forth my angels with the sound of a mighty trumpet blast, and they shall gather my chosen ones from the farthest end of the earth and heaven".

"Two men will be working together in the fields, and one will be taken, the other left. So be prepared, for you don't know what day your LORD is coming". Matthew 24:40,41
---Melody on 10/7/18


Jesus answered, This voice has come for your sake, not mine. Now is the judgment of this world, now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.
John 12:30-32
---Johnny74 on 10/7/18


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Why did people not know about the rapture a long time ago? Because Darby and his invention of Dispensationalism did not exist before the 19th Century.
The Rapture is the Second Coming.

Also many Christians were dying for their faith. So the idea that they would escape tribulation didn't occur to those who were dying.

Those who go to heaven are those who love GOD and love others.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/7/18


David: You have misinterpreted John 14: 21 that says: "He that has MY COMMANDMENTS and keep them, he it is that loves ME, and he that loves ME, shall be loved of MY FATHER, and I will love him, and manifest MYSELF to him.

Who's a true Christian, being saved and Born Again from GOD'S SPIRIT? - ("not all that says LORD, LORD" but their lives aren't consecrated unto HIM - for as THE LORD says again in other part of The Bible: "If you love ME, keep MY COMMANDMENTS". THE LORD died for all sinners, but it's up to the individual to repent and accept GOD'S GIFT of salvation into their hearts, and if so - they will be able to consecrate their lives to THE LORD and by GOD'S SPIRIT in obedience to HIM!
---Melody on 10/7/18


Many have chosen to be saved, but it will be those whom God has chosen.

Folks like Billy Graham, taught we decide to be saved, and then we make this decision, we are. These folks are among the Many. But God said, he alone decides who he will save. Because many folks believe what Billy taught, those folks who will be saved, will be very few.

We can decide to make Jesus our Lord...but salvation is Gods decision alone. Jesus taught in (John 14:21) what causes him to choose you.
---David on 10/7/18


If churches can invent or discard various doctrines over the centuries, there's no way to get at the truth. It's all subjective.
---Johnny74 on 10/7/18


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We are now 200 years past the 19th century. The Protestant Reformation was new 500 years ago. There are denominations newer (Presbyterian and Lutheran) Have there been new developments in Covenant Theology since its popularity in the 17th century?
To know what is truly new compare it to scripture, not historical popularity. Truth is determined from scriptures.
Truth can be forgotten, restored, and our understanding developed. Uncovered truth is not new.
Could be it's been there all along, and only now being nailed to the door of old dead wrong tradition.
---michael_e on 10/7/18


I'm curious why the church did not know about this Rapture Doctrine until the middle of the 19th century.
---Johnny74 on 10/6/18


The rapture brings all true grace age believers, living or dead, together forever. It's "that blessed hope" (Titus 2:13) which will bring us together with our Lord, who is the head of the boC. It's a comfort to us as 1 Thess 4:18 says. It rescues us from the wrath that God is to pour out upon those that dwell upon the earth in the tribulation. It fulfills the prophecy of 1 Thess 4:13-18. It ends this dispensation of grace by removing the church from the earth. Then, the OT form of worship and the kingdom program can resume, with God's focus on the nation of Israel the seven years which is the last week of years in the 70 weeks or years described in Daniel 9:24-27. This is yet another of God's prophecies which must be fulfilled.
---michael_e on 10/6/18


"Who will be Raptured, if indeed there is a rapture?
At the return of Jesus, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then [overcoming believers] which are alive and remain, shall be caught up together with them.
---joseph on 10/6/18


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"And HE said unto me: It is done: I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE BEGINNING AND THE END: I will give unto him that is athirst of The Fountain of the Water of Life - freely". = Revelation 21:6

"Blessed are they that do HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to The Tree of Life, and may enter in through The Gates into The City". = Revelation 22:14
---Melody on 10/6/18


There is no such thing as a pre-trib pre-mill rapture.

I Thess describes what will happen when the Savior descends for the Last Judgement.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/6/18


Jerry

Who will be included in this?
---Johnny74 on 10/6/18


1Th 4:13-17 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
---jerry6593 on 10/6/18


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