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What Is The Gospel

Simple question:
What is the gospel?

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 ---trey on 10/14/18
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I also find it amazing that Michael_e totally dodges everything having to do with the doctrine of the cross. The doctrine of the cross is more than Jesus death and resurrection. The doctrine include our dying with Christ and being raised a New Creature, neither Jew or Gentile. So the fact that the BOC has no Jewish TRIBES is a no brainer. There are only NEW CREATURES in the BOC that resulted in our NEW BIRTH.

We are crucified to the world, and the world to us. We are crucified with Christ...NO LONGER I THAT LIVE, But Christ that liveth IN ME...CHRIST IN ME..the hope of GLORY! That came vis THE CROSS "OF GLORY"

Michael_e, you say words, but fail to understand its meaning.
---kath4453 on 11/1/18


//Then you will understand, Philippians 3:18- 21. RE THE CROSS.//
I also Know that the boC doesn't have 12 tribes
---michael_e on 10/31/18


Galatians Paul is saying, those who are born of the flesh persecute those born after the Spirit, even to today. John 3 says, born of the flesh and born of the spirit. Why would Paul bother Gentiles with those verses if Gentiles don't also receive the Holy Spirit, aka being born of the spirit. You can't even walk in the spirit of you've never been born of the spirit.

Also Jesus said in the gospels, pick up your CROSS and follow me. Paul said , follow me THE WAY I FOLLOW CHRIST. Do the Jews ALSO had their own cross doctrine?

Paul ALSO refers to the CHURCH, BOC as receiving some of,the benefits of the New Covenant...2 Cor 3. Covenant and Testament mean the same thing.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/18


Galatians 6:14-15

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For IN CHRIST, neither circumcision availeth anything nor Uncircumcision , BUT A NEW CREATURE.


This sums up the Cross , the GLORIOUS cross. This again is the MYSTERY, the BOC, aka The Church, that we are no longer part of this world. We died with Christ, as Paul also reiterates in Colossians 3:1-4. Also is what Galatians 2:20-21 is saying. Colossians 2 and 3 sum up what Paul first said in Colossians 1:24-27.

Then you will understand, Philippians 3:18- 21. RE THE CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/18


//Paul states in Ephesians that the wall between Jew and Gentile is broken down because of the cross, making IN HIM , that is Christ, one NEW man, neither Jew or Gentile.//
Which is the boC.
Born again first mentioned by Jesus to the circumcision (John 3:3) Israel, had been Gods people for centuries.
They were born unto God when they were delivered from Egypt as Gods nation. Their covenant with God proved they were Gods people.(Ex 4:22)
Years of breaking the covenant with God, Israel wasn't ready to enter their covenanted kingdom. Being born a Jew in the flesh wasn't enough: (Matt 3:9)
Israel needed to be born a second time with the Spirit to fulfill their covenants.(Ezek 36:24-28)
---michael_e on 10/31/18




I find Michael_e's hyper-dispensationalism anti-Semitic. Paul states in Ephesians that the wall between Jew and Gentile is broken down because of the cross, making IN HIM , that is Christ, one new man, neither Jew or Gentile. Paul also shows in Romans 11 that the Gentiles were grafted in wild against nature, grafted into THE ROOT. I believe THE ROOT here is the covenant God made with Abraham, that In thee will ALL families of the earth be blessed. Abraham's seed in Galatians and Romans 9:7-8 is talking about the children of PROMISE, re IN ISAAC.
Galatians 3:6-18 Paul is addressing GENTILES. Yet michael_e says his gentile church has nothing to do with any Covenant God made anywhere.

No covenant= no salvation, also means CULT.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/18


Steveng:

In today's world, the word "church" can mean several different things, including:

1) A building: "There is church at the corner of First and Main."

2) A denomination or organization: "The Presbyterian Church forbids that."

3) A local assembly of believers: "I go to church on Sunday."

4) The universal body of all believers: "Peter's letters are to the whole Church."

It is presumptuous to automatically presume that someone means one of these (e.g. 2) and condescending to then condemn him for doing so, especially when the context implies a different interpretation.
---StrongAxe on 10/29/18


\\In today's world the word "church" means a denomination ....
---Steveng on 10/29/18\\

Et reliqua.

In case you've not heard, Steveng, words can get new meanings over time.

In Orthodox ecclesiology, the congregation gathered to celebrate the Eucharistic Sacrifice in communion with her bishop is the microcosm of the Universal Church. IOW, this IS the Church.

What does the worldly denominational "church" of Steveng teach?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/29/18


michael_e's doctrine claim Pauls Gentile church is not BORN AGAIN, and that only those in the Jewish Church are born again, yet Romans 6-8 give detail about being born again. Paul also states in Galatians those born after the flesh persecute those born after the spirit. Michael_e is saying the Gentile Church is persecuting the Jewish church even to today. This makes no sense at all. It was unbelieving Jews who persecuted the Church , and before Pauls conversion he was guilty of persecuting the Church of God. After his conversion, we see no such persecution of Paul or any Christian Jew or Gentile persecuting anyone. It's unbelievers who do the persecuting, not the other way around. Those born after the flesh ONLY are still in their sin.
---kath4453 on 10/29/18


Nicole, you don't thing that God can or will sanctify sins, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/29/18




Kathr wrote: "Steveng, pay attention, no one is talking about denominations."

In today's world the word "church" means a denomination ("What church do you belong to?" as apposed to "What denomination do you belong to?") and a building ("I didn't see you in church today") all built with the hands of men.
---Steveng on 10/29/18


Samuel, you receive sanctification from the Holy Spirit.

We can't sanctify any of our sins. That's needs Grace.

Justification doesn't belong to us.

Mercy is the only thing we can claim from Jesus.

//Through faith alone.//

That is a made up concept since the 18 century.

Kathr: It doesn't surprise me that you Nicole or even Steven automatically want to jump on me, when you have NO CLUE what is being discussed.//

It doesn't matter about your discussion, your statement is wrong NO MATTER the discussion.

You can't fit your statement into anything to make it correct.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/29/18


Same CHURCH.


Peter:

1 Peter 1: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers, 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: AKA THE CROSS.

Paul:

Acts 20:28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Redeemed , purchased, to buy back...
---kathr4453 on 10/29/18


Thanks Nicole and Steveng, but we're talking about something altogether different than what you think. It's Michael_e who,claims those saved before Paul are NOT the same as you and I are saved.

It doesn't surprise me that you Nicole or even Steven automatically want to jump on me, when you have NO CLUE what is being discussed. WHY! Because neither of you have read all the conversation OR you both simply can't read or comprehend OR you just assume I'm wrong because I disagree with you on other issues.

I suggest if you don't understand conversations...just stay out of it rather than looking like a fool.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/18


Jesus's death paying for our sins on the cross is what saves us.

We accept the Salvation of being made righteous by the death of Jesus on the Cross. Which is justification.

But then Jesus expects us to die to self and live for him. That is sanctification.

Justification must come before Sanctification. Because we are never perfect by anything we do. Our Perfections is by Grace alone. Through faith alone.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/29/18


Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead on the third day.
---Bill on 10/29/18


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Michael_e, interestingly enough, the word CROSS is never mentioned in Acts ..not even once, not even with detailing Pauls ministry, it's not mentioned in Romans, 2 Corinthians, 1 and 2 Timothy, 1 and 2 Thesselonians.

But it IS mentioned in all 4 Gospels and Hebrews, you claim are to Jews only.

So again your theory just hit another wall.

Steveng, pay attention, no one is talking about denominations. There is only ONE Church of God, just like there is only ONE Gospel of God and only ONE Kingdom of God.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/18


Lets take Romans where the word CROSS, Glorious CROSS whatever is not mentioned once. But we have the WHOLE doctrine of this Glorious Cross right in Romans. Romans 5 Romans 6, Roman 7 Romans 8 Romans 10. See, WHEN you understand the doctrine of the Cross, you understand you don't always have to use the word CROSS. ROmans 6 Baptized into His Death and raised up together with Him a New Creature IS THE OUTCOME OF THE GLORIOUS CROSS when WE identify with Christ in death and resurrection life. That's only one example.

ITS because Michael doesn't understand salvation that he doesn't get it. And he also does not believe we are born Again of the spirit, also leaves him in the dark. The natural mind cannot see the things of the Spirit.
---kath4453 on 10/29/18


Kathr: This was never promised to Earthly Israel//

What?

Jesus was ONLY speaking to the Jews most of his public ministry.

All of His Disciples were Jews

It seems you are confused about the Cross.

Please focus on Jesus's Words before going to Paul.

Jesus said to PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW HIM.

Not JUST die on the cross and rise with Him.

Jesus suffered just walking on the way to His death. He fell 3 times.

Which MEANS in life we must follow Jesus. We will fall but we MUST GET BACK UP and head to our death on our own crosses.

I think your confusion is due to you taking Jesus off the cross.

The cross DOESN'T save you.

Jesus ON the Cross is what Saves you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/29/18


Kathr wrote: "...there are not two churches..."

That's right, there are not two churches - there are over seventy-five thousand churches in the world, each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. These include catholics, orthodox,presbyterians, lutherans, baptists, etc.

Is Christ divided?

As I have said many times before the word "church" in Jesus' time simply meant the body of Christ - nothing more, nothing less.

In today's world it means a denomination ("What church do you belong to?") and a building ("I didn't see you in church today") all built with the hands of men.
---Steveng on 10/28/18


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Peters message at Pentecost to Israel was basically repeating Johns preaching of baptism, and Jesus kingdom gospel, but where's the cross? (Acts 3:14-15)
Peter preaches the death of Christ, condemns Israel for killing Christ and doesn't preach the cross as glory (Acts 5:28, Acts 10:39). Killing their Messiah isn't preaching the cross as good news.
In Pauls ministry there's something interesting about who preached the gospel first.(1 Cor 15:3)
Paul last to see the Lord, apparently, was first to preach the gospel of salvation as glory of the cross (Gal 6:14, 1 Cor 1:18).
Paul being first to preach the gospel, it's reasonable the church should follow Paul's pattern for preaching the gospel of Christ.(1 Tim 1:16
---michael_e on 10/28/18


Michael _e is confusing THE CROSS, with only Jesus death and resurrection, when THE CROSS as we see Paul states many times, is OUR DYING WITH CHRIST, and raised up a New Creature...THIS is what was hidden. This was never promised to Earthly Israel, because they will still be EARTHLY, not heavenly.

The result of our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection shown in Romans 6, Galatians 2:20-21 is what Paul refers to as the CROSS. And the ultimate result of the Mystery of our identification is what Colossians 1:24-27 is about.

But to KNOW this truth, is found in Philippians 3....that I may KNOW Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His suffering, being made conformable unto His death, ....
---kathr4453 on 10/28/18


Did the 12 actually preach a gospel during the time they spent learning from Jesus, before His death and resurrection? We do see after Jesus resurrection Jesus commissioned them to preach the Gospel to ALL NATIONS, not just Jews. He also said there was so much more they would come to know, and that the Holy Spirit would be teaching them even more truth. I suppose this is what John meant, in 1st John.

The Kingdom restored to Israel was never told they must pass from death to life, yet John in 1st John make this truth. This is CHURCH truth..the BOC truth. Romans 6 is the only way one passes from death to life NOW, reiterated in Galatians 2: 20-21.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/18


Kathr, would have you believe the scripture is wrong and she is right.////

The FACT is, I would have you believe all scripture posted, with supporting scripture. I don't see any scripture michael_e posted, including his last post.

Michael_e over and over has stated "the mystery" is Jesus death and resurrection. Isaiah 53 was not HIDDEN in the OT. NO SCRIPTURE says Jesus death and resurrection is a mystery. Also Michael insists the 4 gospels are OT, but we see Jesus talked about His death and resurrection AGAIN PROVING it was not HIDDEN. The Mystery is Colossians 1:24-27. Michael NEVER ONCE addressed this when I have posted this truth at least 25 + times over the years and with Michael_e. BELIEVE SCRIPTURE.
---kath4453 on 10/28/18


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Kathr, would have you believe the scripture is wrong and she is right.
Kathr would have you believe during Christs earthly ministry the 12 preached a gospel they didn't understand.
Kathr would have you believe the predominately Jewish Jerusalem church was not the church persecuted by Paul.
Kathr would have you believe the predominately Gentile church at Antioch and the Jerusalem church were one and the same.
Wrong on many counts
---michael_e on 10/28/18


Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 14:22
Acts 19:8
Acts 20:25
Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging, to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God,
Acts 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

So we have
The Kingdom of God,
The Church of God
The Gospel of God

All preached before Paul and what Paul also preached.

michael_e states we must have FACTS . SO here are Facts.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/18


Michael_e, there are not two churches, one for Jews, and one for Gentiles. Cornelius a gentile was before Paul. Where's the scripture telling him he joined a Jewish church? NONE! You have no scripture to back up your theory. Paul never started a Gentile Church. He ADDED TO THE CHURCH OF GOD, he originally persecuted. And why would Paul tell a bunch of Gentiles how he was the least of all apostles, not even worthy to be called an apostle for persecuting a Jewish church? Where did he say, well, I'm a DIFFERENT APOSTLE, THE FIRST AND BEST OF ALL THE NEW APOSTLES STARTING THE GENTILE CHURCH. No where! Not even a hint in scripture.

Pauls Gospel was built upon the Apostles and Prophets. Ephesians 2:14-22 totally debunk your theory.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/18


Kathr would have you believe that the church at Jerusalem headed by the 12, primarily jewish, persecuted by Paul,
Acts 8:1 "..And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem"
is the same church primarily gentile headed up by Paul.
Acts 13:1 "Now there were in the church that was at Antioch ..."
---michael_e on 10/27/18


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Jesus ministry on earth, 3 1/2 years was to prepare them for the coming years, after His resurrection. He was with them and showed them from death to resurrection, and 40 days after His resurrection. He death and resurrection was stated through out His time with them. They may not have understood until AFTER He rose from the dead. Remember Jesus was FORORDAINED to take away sin, which can only be done by His death and resurrection.

The Lord revealed they MYSTERY to me YEARS AFTER I was saved. What makes you think God didn't do the same with those saved before Paul more fully laid out Gods plan?

And no scripture supports two entirely different CHURCHES.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/18


1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Michael would have you believe there were two churches. One for earthly Israel, and one for the BOC.

Here we have Pauls own words of what Church he persecuted before his conversion. IT WAS NOT any church of earthly Israel, but what Paul says many times and refers to many times THE CHURCH OF GOD as the BOC.

But as I show Michael_e more scriptural FACTS debunking his theory, it's interesting he will never address these FACTS.
---kath4453 on 10/27/18


One last time, Jesus had an ministry on earth. He picked 12 disciples.
As Christ had not died and ascended, Paul's gospel was not available, so what did they preach?
---michael_e on 10/26/18


The Gospel: the Kingdom of God
The Gospel of Christ: the Kingdom of God
The Gospel of peace: the Kingdom of God
The Gospel of God: the Kingdom of God
The Gospel of Jesus Christ: the Kingdom of God

The Gospel is the Kingdom of God, nothing more, nothing less. God, Jesus, the apsotles and all that came after them taught the Kingdom of God and HOW to get there.
---Steveng on 10/26/18


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Isaiah 53:3 - He is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief, and we hid as it were our faces from him, He was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 53:6 - All like sheep have gone astray, we have turn every one to own way: and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 53:12 - Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong: because he hath poured out his soul unto death. and he was numbered with the transgressors: and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Romans 10:16 - But not all Israelites accepted the Good news, For Isaiah says, Lord who has believed our message
---RichardC on 10/26/18


Michael, the Apostle John understood. Read 1st John 4:9-11 which John wrote after Jesus' resurrection.

John did not need Paul to explain it to him, in fact John has this to say, "These things I have written to you concerning those that seduce you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you but as His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, abide in Him." 1st John 2:26-29. This is the anointing of the Holy Spirit. John 20:19-23.
---barb on 10/26/18


The Gospel of the Kingdom is never mentioned after Mark 1. After that we have
The Gospel
The Gospel of Christ
The Gospel of peace
The Gospel of God
The Gospel of Jesus Christ

Paul often states the Gospel of God, and so does Peter.

1 Thesselonians 2:2, 2:8, 2:9
1 Timothy 1:11

1 Peter 4:17
Peter never refers to any other Gospel not listed above including in Acts. Now after Jesus rose from the dead He spent 40 days and nights with His Apostles, and you want us all to believe the subject never once came up explaining to them His death and resurrection? WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? you need proof scriptures to back up. Where are they?
---kathr4453 on 10/26/18


How many times??
Again, The twelve disciples did not understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ while they were preaching the Kingdom gospel.
The twelve couldn't preach Paul's gospel, as Christ had not yet died.
---michael_e on 10/26/18


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Michael_e, they were preaching Jesus Resurrection right from the beginning of Acts, even testifying to His resurrection along with some 500 who were witnesses of His resurrection. Same Gospel Paul preached re Romans 10:9-10. No where in Romans 10:9 10 11 12 and so on is some absolute that you must believe in THE MYSTERY before you qualify to be in the BOC. The mystery is Romans 6-8. CHRIST IN YOU, and how He comes to,be IN YOU.

Acts 1:6-7 clearly show they were NOT preaching a restored Kingdom to Israel. They specifically asked Jesus about that, and they were not given the Greenlight.

Show the verse after they specifically asked, where Jesus said YES...Show it michael_e. PROVE IT michael_e!
---kathr4453 on 10/26/18


How many times does this have to be said. THE MYSTERY IS NOT JESUS DEATH AND RESURRECTION. The Mystery is CLEARLY defined in Colossians 1:24-27. Christ in you. This same Mystery theme is also explained in Ephesians, that WE are bone of his bone flesh of His flesh, being made ONE with Christ, just as Eve was taken from Adams side and made one with him. This is the Mystery of the Church, the BOC, we are HIS BODY.

The gospel 1Corinthians 15:1-4 doesn't even go into such detail. The MYSTERY goes beyond the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
---kath4453 on 10/26/18


//The Apostles understood the Gospel.//
Luke 18:34 "And they understood none of these things:.."
Again, The twelve disciples did not understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ while they were preaching the Kingdom gospel.
The twelve couldn't preach Paul's gospel, as Christ had not yet died.
---michael_e on 10/25/18


Steven is correct. The CHURCH , is defined in Colossians 1:24-27, those making up the body of Christ, where Christ is head of the Church, and we ...CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY.

THIS CHURCH was kept secret, in the OT. So it's not some continuation of Israel. We see on the day of Pentecost some 3000 souls were added to the CHURCH. Not Temple. Yet no mention of any physical Church was ever stated. In the beginning of the Church age, people met in homes. They didn't have what we have today as church buildings. And Christians did not share the Temple with the Jews. Remember, they were being persecuted by the Jews.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/18


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Steveng, the word "church" is used in the Bible with several meanings.

I suggest you turn to the REAL Jesus before you presume to instruct others.

And may I remind you that you have referred to "worldly denominational churches" in the past.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/18


Cluny:
I don't respond to you too often, but once in a while I have the need to remind you of this: the word "church" is the body of christians - nothing more, nothing less - not a denomination nor a building of which both are made by the hands of men.

Cluny wrote: "what does your worldly denominational "church" say that living a Christian lifestyle means?"

Re-read my entire post very slowly.
---Steveng on 10/25/18


Michael I disagree. The Apostles understood the Gospel. But they did have problems in how it worked and in who it was meant for. But they knew the Gospel. That Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15 was true and agreed with it.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/25/18


Cluny, exactly why are you on CN. You have a foul disposition that hurls insults at others right from the get go, and then you wonder why people are offended by the way you relate to others. Then you act all bent out of shape, not seeing your nasty mouth starts fires here.

Is this what ACHIEVING PERFECTION IS ABOUT in the ORTHODOX CHURCH? I'd rather see what Steveng has to offer than what you do. You offer nothing, but snide remarks.

Just because your ill, gives you no excuse to abuse others.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/18


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Steveng, what does your worldly denominational "church" say that living a Christian lifestyle means?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/18


Why do today's christians complicate living a christian lifestyle?

The gospel, the good news, is about the soon-to-come Kingdom of God - nothing more, nothing less.

Jesus and the apostles also taught how to get there using the ultimate commandment - Love (as in the verb form and straight from the heart). The entire bible has a plethora of examples about HOW to love.

"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness,.."
Matthew 6:33

If you truly love God, keep his commandments. John 14:15 What is so difficult about that?
---Steveng on 10/24/18


Fact: The gospel Paul preached includes Christ dying for our sins, his burial, and resurrection.
(1 Cor 15:1-4)
Fact: Christ sent his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom.
(Luke 9:1-6)
Fact: The twelve disciples did not understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom.
(Luke 18:31-34)
Conclusion based on facts: The gospel of the kingdom and Pauls gospel are different messages.
There is no room for interpreting this conclusion, and yet it is rejected and even offensive to many today.
Conclusion: "Christians" today are unaware of Bible facts regarding the gospels.
Intelligent Bible study collects facts first.
---michael_e on 10/24/18


Well Cluny, you tell me, what does Hebrews 11 say? Did they hear? It appears so. Also so did Job have faith. YEP he sure did. Hebrews says the GOSPEL was preached to us as well as unto them, them being OT, Hebrews 4:2, and Galatians 3:6-7 says Abraham believed and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Even says those who have the faith of Abraham TODAY are bless with faithful Abraham.
I love Galatians 3:8
And the scriptures foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles through faith preached before THE GOSPEL UNTO ABRAHAM , saying IN THEE shall all nations be blessed.

Also Cluny, many Gentiles JOINED with Israel who was a light to the nations. During OT times.

Don't you read the Bible?
---kathr4453 on 10/20/18


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\\Well, to back up Samuel, OT were saved the same way NT people are, FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST\\

In the words of ST. Paul, how could they believe in him of whom they had not heard?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/19/18


The good news announcing the finished works of Jesus and the believers subsequent salvation.
---josef on 10/20/18


Cluny. You need to read all of Luke 1. Luke 1:55

As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

John 8:56

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Rom 4:3

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:13

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Here is your answer Cluny. GOD taught Abraham.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/20/18


Well, to back up Samuel, OT were saved the same way NT people are, FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. OT looked forward to the cross, we look back. They were not COMPLETE or made Perfect in the OT. That didn't happen until Jesus finished His work of redemption. They also died without the promise of the Holy Spirit..Hebrews 11. Today we have the promise of the Holy Spirit within.

There are several differences, as to the dispensation. Today we are in the dispensation of GRACE, which is the WHOLE of Salvation. Abraham was not crucified with Christ, as we are today. More is expected of us today.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/18


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\\The Gospel was preached to Abraham in a different form. \\

How?

And by whom?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/19/18


1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The Gospel was preached to Abraham in a different form. But all who are saved from Adam to today are saved by Grace alone through faith in Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/19/18


// Did it ever occur to you that St. Peter was right, too?//
Of course Peter was right for the audience he was addressing.
"Ye men of Israel"
---michael_e on 10/19/18


YOu actually think this verse from Hebrews is talking about the canonical NT?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/19/18


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There's so much blood in Hebrews it makes the Mormons shudder in fear. Hebrews explains everything we need to know as to WHY salvation is of the Jews religion. Everything about Jesus and His redemption of man from sin began with types and shadows of the OT Levitical priesthood, the day of atonement, Jubilee, and on and on. The Mercy seat, all this pointed to Jesus Christ.

And Hebrews 10 is a chapter everyone should memorize and meditate and pray over until the Lord gives you clear understanding.

WE enter a NEW AND LIVING WAY, through the veil, that is to say His flesh.....which is I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, and the new and living way is CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/18


Michael, the answer to your question can be found in Matthew 26:26-29.

"For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." Matt 26:28. Also see Matt 20:28.
---barb on 10/19/18


//The four canonical Gospels are NOWHERE mentioned in Hebrews.//
Try studying
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
---michael_e on 10/18/18


Did it ever occur to you that St. Peter was right, too?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/19/18


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He said it in John michael_e, when He said IT IS FINISHED.



Of the last sayings of Christ on the cross, none is more important or more poignant than, It is finished. Found only in the Gospel of John, the Greek word translated it is finished is tetelestai, an accounting term that means paid in full. When Jesus uttered those words, He was declaring the debt owed to His Father was wiped away completely and forever. Not that Jesus wiped away any debt that He owed to the Father, rather, Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankindthe debt of sin.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/18


//Does Romans 5:10 come close enough?
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/18/18//
Exactly what the ascended Christ revealed to Paul addressing the boC.
Quite different than what Peter told the Nation Acts 2:23, 3:15
Your right division is definitely improving
---michael_e on 10/18/18


The four canonical Gospels are NOWHERE mentioned in Hebrews.

And they have never been considered part of the OT, except by fringe sectarians who are trying to pass themselves off as more-spiritual-than-thou.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/18/18


I believe John the Baptist said, referring to Jesus, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. Aalso we have from God covering Adam and Eve in animal skins, to Abel's sacrifice to every sacrifice pointing to and symbolic of Jesus dying for our sin, they did BY FAITH until the Promised redeemer was born of a virgin, fulfilling the prophecy. Not everyone was ignorant, but like TODAY, there still is a small handful even today that understands.

Also 1 Cor 2:7-8 states God did not reveal for a purpose. I believe if Satan knew he would not have crucified the Lord of Glory, because he would have known that would defeat him and his power.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/18


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\\ Barb, I was not trying to be sarcastic, I was seriously wondering where in the OT books of which Mt-Jn are part according to Heb.9, does Jesus say He died for your sins?
---michael_e on 10/18/18\\

Does Romans 5:10 come close enough?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/18/18


Barb, I was not trying to be sarcastic, I was seriously wondering where in the OT books of which Mt-Jn are part according to Heb.9, does Jesus say He died for your sins?
---michael_e on 10/18/18


No, Michael, my bible does not stop at the book of Acts. Does your bible stop at Matthew when Jesus begins His preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom?

Kathr, I am not afraid of Paul. However, I am afraid for those who put his words above the Law and the Prophets and the testimony of Jesus. Rev. 12:17.

This will probably fall on deaf ears but I will say it anyway. Ephesus is the only church that Paul wrote to that made into the 7 churches of Revelation and they were commended by God for trying false apostles and finding them to be liars. Rev. 2:1-7.

---barb on 10/18/18


Barb, the mystery was revealed in Jesus prayer in John 17, I In them and thou in me that we may be ONE. The ONE here is One New Man/ creature. Only those IN CHRIST are the New Creature. So Paul did not preach anything that was not first given to him and spoken by Jesus Christ first. John 17 opening that door, And what Paul is teaching , what the Lord revealed to him, you see throughout Pauls writings, with the words IN CHRIST, CHRIST IN YOU, ETC ETC. NO OT ever taught CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY. But Jesus prayer, John 17 also covers the SHARE MY GLORY as well. Something Israel was NEVER promised. So don't be afraid of Pauls doctrine from Jesus prayer in John 17.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/18


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Conversations between Christians who disagree shouldn't be degrading.
Communication in ministry isn't a war.
Paul says, the servant of the Lord must not strive (2 Tim 2:24).
Your goal shouldn't be to destroy, but to help and rescue. The Bible isn't a club, it's the key.
You are not always right. The Bible is always right.
Ministry communication should happen between two people with an open Bible, both searching to understand what is right.
There is an enemy, but the enemy isn't a stranger online.
Conversation wars don't edify. They corrupt real ministry.
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. Eph 4:29
---michael_e on 10/17/18


Michael says the mystery is Jesus death and resurrection, but no scripture makes that claim. Colossians 1:24-27 tell us what the mystery is, which is Christ in you, the Hope of GLORY. GLORY IS OUR HEAVENLY CALLING.

ABRAHAM SAW IN A VISION THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST. Those in Israel, who lived by FAITH, knew and understood the animals slain represented the promised redeemer, and Isaiah 53 fortold of the sufferings of Christ. That WAS NOT HIDDEN. Also that Gentiles would be saved was again no secret.

The MYSTERY is we DIED WITH CHRIST and are raised up together with Him a New Creature, neither Jew or Gentile, making up what is called THE CHURCH. This NEW CREATURE is not Israel. THIS is what was kept secret.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/18


barb, just out of curiosity, does your bible stop at the book of Acts?
---michael_e on 10/17/18


Michael, Paul was walking the earth at that same time as Jesus and yet he was not chosen to be a disciple of His nor was he ever mentioned by Him unless you count Rev 2:2.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is all about the words, teachings and preaching of Jesus Christ. He was the Passover Lamb who paid the death penalty for those who would believe in His testimony and those who seek to enter His Kingdom.

Paul tells us nothing about the testimony of Jesus. We would know nothing of His miracles, parables and teachings if not for Jesus' eyewitness disciples.

You make it sound like Jesus' only purpose was to die on the cross but that is contrary to His words. John 18:37, John 12:47-50, John 8:31, Matt 28:18-20.
---barb on 10/17/18


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Salvation according to the gospel of the kingdom meant deliverance from unrighteous rulers all over the world. Gods people, would be ruled by Gods Messiah in obedient Israel.
The Kingdom gospel didn't require knowledge of the cross, not to mention understanding what it meant.
Luke 9:1-2 Jesus sends his disciples to preach the kingdom gospel.
Nine chapters later, Jesus tells the disciples he must die, and they were clueless (Luke 18:34)

Pauls gospel does include the cross, moreover, it is the preaching of the cross. (1 Cor 15:1-4)
The disciples in the red letters were ignorant of the gospel of the cross. Yet the preaching of the cross is the power of God unto salvation for the church today (1 Cor 1:18).
---michael_e on 10/17/18


The 'Good News'
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/15/18


The true gospel is the gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached. Matt 4:23, Matt 9:35. The gospel of the Kingdom is the testimony of Jesus. John 18:35-37.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a Witness unto all Nations and then the end shall come." Matt 24:14.
---barb on 10/15/18


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