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No Sin Before Death

Can we reach a point of not committing sin before we die?

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 ---trey on 10/15/18
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Cluny, when we are CAUGHT UP, we will also be ascending. Just like every verse I posted shows....ASCENDING..what did you think CAUGHT UP means? What else did you think raptured means...CAUGHT UP. AKA ASCENDING. Going UP, meeting the Lord in the clouds. It's all here. You just want to argue.

So NO I am not wrong again.

The issue is, you are daft. Slow. Or just argumentative.

So go take your pills, take a nap, and stop trying to debunk everything everyone else is telling you.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/18


Wrong again, kathr.

2 Cor is about a man (possibly St. Paul himself) who had a profound mystical experience.

Revelation 12:5 is talking about the Ascension of Christ.

1 Thess is talking about when Christ returns to earth at the Last Judgement.

NONE of these means a pre-trib rapture.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/18


Nicole look up the words Roman Catholic church in the Dictionary or encyclopedia.

All will tell you the Church run from Rome by the Pope. Your resistance to the name makes no sense.

So the Catholic church run by Pope Francis is what we could say. But why?
---Samuelbb7 on 10/24/18


Here is where the word RAPTURE also comes from.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell, or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/18


\\No Cluny, Rites are about HOW Liturgical practices are preformed.

***Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated.- EWTN\\

EWTN is not correct in all things.

The appropriate dicastery in Rome is NOT called "Congregation fot the Eastern Rites," but "Congregation for the EASTERN CHURCHES."

And just how do you know what I have or have not read?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/23/18




No Cluny, Rites are about HOW Liturgical practices are preformed.

***Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated.- EWTN

//..liturgical directives from Rome referring to the ROMAN Catholic Church.//

NO YOU HAVEN'T!

I still CAN'T find this roman catholic church you, Kathr, Samuel and StrongAxe keep talking about!

You want to connected to THE Catholic Church to suit your foul mouth.

And you have the NERVE to complain to Kathr when she speaks about the Orthodox Church.

You want to change the title of the Catholic Church and Kathr wants to change your Orthodox belief.

You both deserve each other!

What goes around comes around
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/18


\\
None of the Rites under Pope Francis are CALLED 'roman catholic'.\\

First off, Nicole, they are not "rites" but sui juris churches.

And I have seen liturgical directives from Rome referring to the ROMAN Catholic Church.

kathr, again, you're not saying your source. The Orthodox Church officially rejected the apokatasis 1500 years ago.

I might as well mention here that prayers for the departed had a prominent place in Jewish worship at the time of the Savior's earthly sojourn, and He NEVER condemned them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/23/18


Me: They are NOT Roman Catholics either.\\

Cluny: I never said they were,Nicole.//

We know you all THINK the Latin Rite are wrongly called roman Catholic.

Me: we are talking about Catholics not Roman Catholics.\\

Cluny: Not all Catholics are Roman Catholics, though most are.//

Then you listed some Rites

There are Maronites.

There are Syriac Catholics

Shall I go on? --Cluny on 10/22/18

Why did you jump into the conversation to tell me other Catholic are NOT called roman Catholics as well?

Stop with the confusion.

Let me make myself CLEAR.

None of the Rites under Pope Francis are CALLED 'roman catholic'.

Do you understand?
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/23/18


Eastern Orthodox Churches do not hold Purgatory to be an essential doctrine, however, since ancient times there has been the constant belief in the possibility of a change of situation for the souls of the dead through the prayers of the living and the offering of the Divine Liturgy for the deceased, and many Orthodox Christians, especially the ascetics and monastics, hope and pray for a general apokatastasis.

You believe in a different kind Cluny. No amount of praying for the dead will chance their outcome. No amount of fire will either.
---kath4453 on 10/23/18


\\Nope don't go on Cluny, lets speak about those you listed. They are NOT Roman Catholics either.\\

I never said they were,Nicole.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/18




kathr, let me ask you a question.

What do you think purgatory is or means?

(Remember, Orthodox don't believe in purgatory, as you falsely claimed.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/18


ax:

Since you answered my post to kathr, I must assume that you and she are the same person. You lefties seem to have a great deal of gender confusion lately.


---jerry6593 on 10/23/18


Nope don't go on Cluny, lets speak about those you listed. They are NOT Roman Catholics either.

Prove first with their Leaders claiming to be Roman Catholics.

Kathr: Many Catholics have never heard the Gospel//

Maybe NOT your kind of Gospel.

But they heard the readings from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

//So devout in fact they disowned him when he was Saved, and married a non catholic.//

Catholics don't disown people. That's a Protestant's play book.

BTW, if I should believe you how does that prove he was devout?

Devout Catholics do not convert to a Protestant faith and claiming they NEVER heard the Gospel

Our WHOLE Mass is base from the Gospel.

Just DROP the Devout part.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/22/18


Cluny, We've been over this before. Spelling was something even Albert Einstein didnt get right. I've listed many very intelligent people who could not spell. Even writers. Im in good company Cluny. Your pettyness is your problem.

Look it up yourself if you don't believe me. You use this same ignorant argument every time you get boxed into a corner and can't answer. Out comes the personal insults, showing YOU are the ignorant one here. Just get over it Cluny, like you told the woman who doesnt like dogs. You just don't like people who can't spell corrrectly 100% of the time. Yet YOU have also been called out on misspelled words.

I believe scripture says things about a hypocrite.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/18


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: BTW, you should have learned the Lord's Prayer and Hail Mary by the age of 6.

Exactly. We learned how to say them, and how to say them very fast (e.g. when repeating the Rosary or doing penance), without actually comprehending what they meant. It was essentially the meaningless parroting of noise to those who don't really understand what they're saying.
---StrongAxe on 10/22/18


Well Monk Cluny and Nicole, you are wrong. Many Catholics have never heard the Gospel, just like many in non Catholic churches never hear the Gospel either.

So devout in fact they disowned him when he was Saved, and married a non catholic.

Besides its become apparent here that you all do preach ANOTHER GOSPEL. Maybe that's the one you all are thinking of. Its not the one we believe.

So Monk, better keep your hateful comments to yourself. its not God-LIKE...
---kath4453 on 10/22/18


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\\Okay we are talking about Catholics not Roman Catholics.\\

Not all Catholics are Roman Catholics, though most are.

There are Ruthenians, and Melkites (to name two of the Byzantine tradition).

There are Maronites.

There are Syriac Catholics.

Shall I go on?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/18


Samuel: I have meet Roman Catholics who know it and others who don't.'//

Okay we are talking about Catholics not Roman Catholics.

My argument is that Kathr called him a DEVOUT Catholic.

Devout Catholics KNOW about the Gospels.

StrongAxe: a different small bite-sized fragment taken from a gospel each week.//

MORE than Pastors who choose what they want you all to hear.

I have been to Churches where they DON'T EVEN read the Gospel. ONLY from the Epistles.

AT least the CC reads all 4 Gospels within a 3 year span. Not the Protestant Churches.

And She reads the Bible out loud for those who can't read the Bible.

BTW, you should have learned the Lord's Prayer and Hail Mary by the age of 6.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/22/18


BTW, kathr, inability to spell a word, such as purgatory, properly is a good indicator you don't even know what the word means, or understand the concept.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/18


Kathr4453 said, "Cluny, my sister married a very devout now X Catholic. So, don't get some idea that we're all in the dark about many of your beliefs. He said he never heard the Gospel while a Catholic. He heard the Gospel and was saved before they married, and wow, what a testimony he has as to all the false teachings of the Catholic Church, which include much of the Orthodox.."

Kathr, you wouldn't know true devotion in Christ if He came up and spat in your eye!

I have heard all of this before! So many ex-RCC and ex-Orthodox tell me they never heard the Gospel before they left the Church.

It's all cow manure. They weren't paying attention!
---Monk_Brendan on 10/22/18


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kathr, the Orthodox Church does NOT believe in purgatory (which you misspelled).

That you would say that shows your utter ignorance of what we believe.

I would be curious to know what your BIL heard that you two THINK is the Gospel.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/18


Nicole_Lacey:

That's just a "Gospel reading" - a different small bite-sized fragment taken from a gospel each week.

Can you imagine reading a book once paragraph each week, rather than all at once, or watching a movie with a 5 minute piece each week? You would have trouble remembering the context.

From such small fragments, the whole comprehensive message of the Gospel as a whole wasn't actually taught in a way to make it easy to understand. I remember the prayers like The Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary being drilled into us by rote, so we could recite them backwards in the sleep - we were taught how to say them, but we were never taught to actually think about what they meant.
---StrongAxe on 10/22/18


Dear Nicole the answer is easy. State what is the Gospel. I have meet Roman Catholics who know it and others who don't.'

I also have meet people who say they are saved. But like the people in Matthew 25 they show they care about no one but themselves. Something a Christian cannot do.

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/22/18


Kathr: my sister married a very devout now X Catholic...He said he never heard the Gospel while a Catholic.//

He wasn't paying ATTENTION as a DEVOUT Catholic.

The Gospel is weekly by the Priest or Deacon! and we STAND while the Gospel is read in respect to JESUS. Jesus is speaking.

Do you STAND during the Gospel? Nope

So if your brother-in-law was soooo devout what was he thinking about was he was standing and Jesus' Words were read out LOUD?

Obviously not about Jesus!

So your devout X-Catholic brother-in-law was probably was thinking about football or the like while standing for the Gospel. If he claims he never heard the Gospel in the Catholic Church.

So he WASN'T paying ATTENTION during Mass.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/22/18


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Who said we can ONLY remember Jesus in 'This' ONCE A YEAR? What's wrong with doing 'This' daily?

Nothing is WRONG with it. Do what you want, but Jesus didn't command that, and teaching it's a sin to not attend mass weekly applies burdens on believers Jesus never taught - i.e. teachings of men.

You're saying that a Catholic communion is not a religious ritual, but a Protestant one is?! That's pretty bizarre!


jerry6593:

You wrote: Complete hogwash! No wonder you're a Democrat.

Complete hogwash! No wonder you're a Republican! (See how ridiculous and judgmental that sounds?)
---StrongAxe on 10/22/18


Cluny, my sister married a very devout now X Catholic. So, don't get some idea that we're all in the dark about many of your beliefs. He said he never heard the Gospel while a Catholic. He heard the Gospel and was saved before they married, and wow, what a testimony he has as to all the false teachings of the Catholic Church, which include much of the Orthodox. So yes, I know it directly from an X Catholic, as I have told you this on many occasions. Also,from Catholic friends.

Again, you all make up words like sacraments, pergetory etc to create your own religion not in scripture.

And then you want to scoff about the Finished works of Christ on the Cross, as if Jesus needs to die again and again. YIKES!
---kathr4453 on 10/22/18


kathr, penances are to help one avoid sin in the future.

Since you know nothing about sacramental theology, it would behoove you to say nothing about it, but rather learn what it really is.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/21/18


kathr: "Jerry, those verses do not teach WE REACH A POINT we cannot sin."

You're arguing with the Bible.

"I do remember an SDA friend saying you all get visited by something, a spirit or maybe Ellen Whites spirit or something and if you are sinning you lose your salvation.."

Complete hogwash! No wonder you're a Democrat.



---jerry6593 on 10/21/18


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StrongAxe: Jesus said "do THIS in memory of me". Observing the passover weekly or daily rather than annually isn't "this".//

Who said we can ONLY remember Jesus in 'This' ONCE A YEAR?
What's wrong with doing 'This' daily?

//No, his sacrifice was his death on the cross.//

Which HAPPENED during His Passover! He didn't FINISH His Passover until He drank the 4th cup on the CROSS.

//We don't re-enact THAT repeatedly//

Neither do we. His Sacrifice happened only ONCE.

We are drawn into His Sacrifice. He doesn't come into our service. You have it backwards.

BTW, you are having religious ritual in your communion service NOT us.

WHY? Because you DON'T have a valid Priesthood.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/21/18


Nicole_Lacey:

The Jews observe passover only once a year. (Well, twice on two successive days to make sure they get the day right).

Jesus said "do THIS in memory of me". Observing the passover weekly or daily rather than annually isn't "this".

His sacrifice is the Passover

No, his sacrifice was his death on the cross. We don't re-enact THAT repeatedly (except maybe in passion plays, which are a nice tradition, but are drama rather than a religious ritual).

"All" excludes Jesus because "God has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" is absurd.

Nowhere does the Bible say that one of the graces given Mary was sinlessness.
---StrongAxe on 10/21/18


Jerry, those verses do not teach WE REACH A POINT we cannot sin.

Have you reached it yet? And what about those who die before REACHING perfection? What scripture teaches those who die before reaching perfection go to hell?

I do remember an SDA friend saying you all get visited by something, a spirit or maybe Ellen Whites spirit or something and if you are sinning you lose your salvation...kinda like the Mormons getting caught without their secret underwear on.

We are COMPLETE IN HIM AKA PERFECT IN CHRIST the moment we are saved. This is how God sees us. He sees us IN CHRIST who alone is sinless.

Those who think God sees them outside of Christ must believe they become GODS. This is blasphemy.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/18


cluny, I already know what the bible teaches about salvation. I showed you what scripture says, and all you do is scoff. We now know you all do not believe in the Finished works of Christ that He died for ALL SIN, not just some, and not just a temporary atonement.

Others as well have given you scripture you scoff at. I looked up what you believe about salvation from YOUR ORTHODOX website. Are you saying that too is a lie?

No scripture supports a POPE, or priests who hear prayers and decides how many Hail Mary's will atone for this or that. We dont have to WORK for forgivness.
---kath4453 on 10/21/18


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And just where did you get your information about what Orthodoxy teaches, kathr?

It's actually in the Bible, but you wouldn't believe me if I gave you the Biblical warrants for it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/20/18


StrongAxe, Not a annual communal Passover, but a RELIGIOUS RITUAL PASSOVER. They react their Passover. Our Mass are ACTUALLY in the Passover meal eating and drinking His Body and Blood.

//Jesus never commanded anything about re-living his sacrifice daily or even annually.//

His sacrifice is the Passover

Time doesn't control Jesus. He give them His Body and Blood BEFORE He's death.

//"ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"?//

See how you took Jesus out of the 'All' even though He is a Human.

Note your reasoning: The only exception was Jesus - because He IS God.//

Note my reasoning: The other exception was Mary - because she was infused with super abundant graces.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/20/18


Can we reach a point of not committing sin before we die?

Yes! The Bible says:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth NOT commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.



---jerry6593 on 10/21/18


Paul warned about, philosophy and vein deceit, fables etc. Paul absolutely teaches WE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM, , Hebrews says we have been perfected forever once and for all those who are sanctified in Christ.

Cluny, you all teach imparted righteousness, not IMPUTED righteousness. Imparted, NOT IN SCRIPTURE is someones idea of sanctification also not in scripture. Imputed means INSTANTANTLY we receive the righteousness OF CHRIST, not our own restored righteousness. God sees us IN CHRIST, not as individuals racing to see who can achieve God-likeness by what means? Self effort? Trying to become sinless before you die? NO NO NO.

So Trey, here is another example and answer to your question above. The answer is NO.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/18


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Cluny, you never answered my question about where you got your doctrine of salvation.

Nicole, unless she is wrong has made some strange comments about the RCC. When I question her, YOU jump in to defend. If you are that much different, then don't defend the RCC. It's YOU who has caused any confusion.

Rather than say I don't know what Orthodox believe YOU TELL US, exactly what Orthodox believe. Just by some of your strange statements on other blogs, you have given some insight to the Orthodox. What I am seeing is you have a different gospel since you argue with most here who have stated sound doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/18


This is the Orthodox belief on personal salvation.

Salvation is the restoration of the wholeness of Gods image in us, of the possibility of our union with God. It is the restoration of our original essence. Holy Tradition teaches that we will be saved when we become like Christ Because of our faith in Him and our desire to become God-like, we are not so much saved all at once as slowly changed into the creatures we were created to be.[18]


This is what I have picked up, and TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH, because no scripture teaches this. We are not STRIVING to be God-like, SO THAT we may be saved.

Orthodox totally denies the truth of Hebrews 10 for one. And we are a NEW CREATURE, more than Adam and Eve ever were.
---kath4453 on 10/20/18


Thank you, Samuel.

All I can ask is for people to try to understand Orthodox teaching.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/20/18


Hello Katyr. You need to listen to Cluny. He is telling the truth about what the Orthodox and Rcc teach.

I disagree with both. But I do respect Cluny's knowledge. I have studied mostly the RCC. But with Cluny's help and some Research I know more about the Orthodox.

Salvation does not come from rites in any church. Is my understanding from the Bible.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Those who follow Jesus. Walk in love. Love keeps the Commandments. Romans 6 and 13.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/20/18


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\\I group you and RCC together since you want to answer for both. \\

You're just proving you know nothing about either church.

You never answered my question about where you got your information about Orthodoxy. When you answer mine, I'll answer yours. OK?

And the Sacraments ARE in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/19/18


Cluny, where did you get your information about salvation? There is no such thing in scripture,especially that of Sacraments. Because you preach another Gospel, it makes sense you do not believe in the Finished works of Christ. YOU add to it by works. No scripture says any sacraments contribute to salvation. Obedience is evidence of salvation to those already saved. There is nothing we can do to contribute to Jesus sacrifice as if His sacrifice was not sufficient.

I group you and RCC together since you want to answer for both.
Also, if you feel cornered, please dont stoop so low as to find spelling errors. Its so childish to do. and we know you have made your share of spelling and punctuation errors.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/18


The Sacraments are among the channels Christ uses to give salvation to us.

They are prophecy and the essence of the Gospel made tangible.

The rest of the stuff you mentioned simply is not Orthodox practice.

I will repeat the question I asked you earlier: Where did you get your information about Orthodoxy?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/19/18


Of the last sayings of Christ on the cross, none is more important or more poignant than, It is finished. Found only in the Gospel of John, the Greek word translated it is finished is tetelestai, an accounting term that means paid in full. When Jesus uttered those words, He was declaring the debt owed to His Father was wiped away completely and forever. Not that Jesus wiped away any debt that He owed to the Father, rather, Jesus eliminated the debt owed by mankindthe debt of sin.

You cannot ADD to Jesus finished works on the Cross by works, or sacraments, or saying Hail Mary's or Our Fathers over and over when it comes to sin. Not even spending a lifetime flogging yourselves or walking on glass.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/18


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\\ Also stating having crucifix's with Jesus still on the cross show an incomplete.\\

Wrong again.

When St. Paul said, "We preach Christ crucified, was he leaving Jesus still on the cross?

Then neither does a crucifix, which preaches to the eyes, as spoken words preach to the ears.

BTW, in Orthodox churches, the processional crucifix is two-sided, showing the Risen Savior on the other side. Did you know that?

Probably not.

Brief English lesson: NO English noun forms the plural with an apostrophe s, as you have done twice.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/18/18


Colossians 1:20-21:
20. And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself, by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Since Jesus came to reconcile all thing to himself, yet most of the world isn't currently reconciled to Him, doesn't that mean that Jesus' work is not yet finished?
---StrongAxe on 10/18/18


Cluny, the finished works of Christ iis His resurrection and ascention, I already stated. Also stating having crucifix's with Jesus still on the cross show an incomplete.

Also Hebrews 2 is "elementary facts" (not a theory) of how and why Jesus was made flesh, why He died, ( for OUR SIN) so that He could bring many sons into glory. AKA SALVATION.

But if you believe water baptism saves, again Peter NEVER made that statement, your saying salvation is by water and not Jesus.

Our salvation is us being baptized into His death, and raised upTOGETHER WITH HIM, a New Creature. Yes it takes JESUS death and resurrection to be saved. ALL OF JESUS FINISHED WORKS. Justified by His blood , and saved by His RISEN LIFE.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/18


\\If your going to horn in to protect the RCC, why then do you say your not RCC?\\

I'm not protecting the Roman Catholic Church.

But almost all the things you are saying about it are wrong.

For that matter, so are the things you say about Orthodoxy wrong.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/18/18


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\\ It was you who horned in in the middle of a conversation, calling what I said A THEORY.\\

Yes, it is one of MANY theories about how Jesus saves us.

I find it incomplete because it says nothing about His Resurrection and Ascension, which are also salvific.

This is precisely why our faith should be in Christ Himself, not a theory about how He saves us.

And I don't get the acronym DT. Can you enlighten me?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/18/18


Cluny, you were the one who criticized me here, when the conversation was between Nicole and me she brought over from another blog. It was you who horned in in the middle of a conversation, calling what I said A THEORY. I'm afraid you stuck your foot in your mouth, and now can't get it out, except to pull a DT tactic here. Won't work.

If your going to horn in to protect the RCC, why then do you say your not RCC? If you feel The Finished Works If Christ is a THEORY.....YOUR WORDS, and not in scripture, why now so defensive?

So now, like Melody you are ABOVE questioning? At least I do answer your questions and don't play the HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME card. It's YOU who resembles Melody.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/18


It appears the teaching of the RCC and Orthodox is that both the body and blood is in the wafer. However Jesus never taught that at all, nor did Paul. And for some reason ONLY the Priest drinks the wine??????? Also,can't find anything like that in scripture either.

So please explain why you all made up your own rules NOT IN SCRIPTURE.
---kath4453 on 10/18/18


The Eucharistic Sacrifice is NOT a re-crucifixion of Christ. Again, you show your ignorance.

\\ you would not wear or hang or display crusifix's with Jesus still on the Cross.\\

And you wouldn't put up a creche because you would believe that Jesus is still a baby in the manger.

kathr, you really have no idea what I do, so quit criticizing me. Or are you channeling Melody?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/17/18


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24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

It's my understanding you all don't take the cup...only the bread correct?

I obey this, but it doesn't look like you do. Also in Remembrance of me, and to show the Lords death till He comes is not what you all teach.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/18


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: We obey Jesus in Luke 22:19-20!

Jesus said "do this in memory of me". What is "this"? What were they doing? They were observing an ANNUAL communal passover meal, not performing a daily religious ritual.

God specifically commanded Jews to observe the Passover each year to remind them of when they were in Egypt. Jesus never commanded anything about re-living his sacrifice daily or even annually.

Mary was sinless

How do you reconcile this with "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"? The only exception was Jesus - because He IS God.

Grace is something one is given - not something one achieves by one's own effort.
---StrongAxe on 10/17/18


Kathr: are you also sinless because Jesus is your savior?//

I am NOT the Virgin Mary.

But I am NOT a murder because Jesus is my Savior.

//we know the RCC and Orthodox do not believe in the finished works of Christ..because MASS is a practice denying the finished works of Christ. They have to crucify the Lord over and over every day, all day 365 days a year, just like the OT..//

Don't be silly. We obey Jesus in Luke 22:19-20! What's your excuse for NOT obeying Jesus?

BTW, do you think the Jews thought they were leaving Egypt and crossing the Red Sea all over again when they OBEY God in having the Passover yearly?

The Passover was ONLY ONCE.
So was Jesus' Crucifixion.

Jesus is made PRESENT to us.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/17/18


1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Just can't repeat this enough.

So Cluny, I see you DO know what The Finished works of Christ is about..correct? So why play dumb and say it's not in the Bible and it's ...what...a Theory? How can you NOW say you believe something you claim was not in scripture?

Well the fact is, if you did believe in the Finished Works of Christ, you would not wear or hang or display crusifix's with Jesus still on the Cross. The cross without Jesus represents THE RISEN CHRIST REPRESENTING "IT IS FINISHED". Jesus is at the right hand of the Father as we speak.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/18


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\\Also we know the RCC and Orthodox do not believe in the finished works of Christ ( also Cluny " \\

I don't know where you got that idea.

Shows how little you know about either Roman Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Nevertheless, St. Paul DID perform baptisms, as he says in the verse before what you quoted. Baptisms would normally be done by the local PRESBYTEROI.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/17/18


1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Nicole and Cluny, hope you like this verse. I love how one verse can clearly put to rest false doctrine. Here too Paul refers to "the cross of Christ" and he doesn't mean a piece of wood either. Some verses Paul just says CROSS. So the Gospel is all wrapped up in the CROSS OF CHRIST, which is all wrapped up in the finished works of Christ re: His death and resurrection completing the promise God made concerning the promised Messiah...BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHICH TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. Jesus died for our sin.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/18


Nicole: Don't need that advice, for you yourself, must be the one 'to take a deep breath' on the 'contrary race' that you are running and at all costs you keep on defying GOD'S WORD and then deny that you are doing it! (?) . . . you better change the crooked route you are choosing, if you still want to arrive at the entrance of GOD'S Kingdom and by that to stop making idols of Mary and others -you are braking one Commandment that GOD said (not me) will separate you from HIS PRESENCE under GOD'S Kingdom!
---Melody on 10/17/18


Trey, no scripture supports we grow into a sinless state while we are still in our earthly bodies. God sees us IN CHRIST ONLY who alone is sinless.

Also we know the RCC and Orthodox do not believe in the finished works of Christ ( also Cluny " Trinity" is not in scripture) because MASS is a practice denying the finished works of Christ. They have to crucify the Lord over and over every day, all day 365 days a year, just like the OT priesthood did when sacrificing animals because in the OT it was not complete.

And Paul says in Acts he wasn't called to baptize, but to preach the GOSPEL, here shows that Baptism is not Salvation, but believing the Gospel is. Paul was a soul winner where men were saved.
---kath4453 on 10/17/18


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Nicole, are you also sinless because Jesus is your savior?

Cluny, so are you sacrificing animals? Are you only covered for a year? Or are you COMPLETE IN CHRIST? When Jesus died and rose again, there's nothing more to be done on Gods end concerning salvation. TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION. And there's nothing you can add
IT IS FINISHED.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/18


Mary was sinless as she herself said Jesus is her Savior.

Remember the Angel greeted her by title.

No other person in the Bible is greeted as Mary. They are greeted by name.

What was the title?

Full of Grace.

Kathr and I just finished talking about Jesus' Graces saves us.

By the Grace of God I have never killed anyone, or stole from anyone.

If I was FULL of Grace it would make sense by the Grace of God I would NEVER SIN.

Mary is Full of Grace.

Just think of it before everyone blasts me off. Esp. you Melody. Take a deep breath and read it slowly one more time.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/16/18


Cluny:

The way you contradict GOD'S WORD and twist things about it, it shows that to you, more important is your own distorted beliefs of what true Christianity is and, your own disrespectful way of seeing things in the spiritual sense - tells it all: So what you are saying, that THE LORD HIMSELF would think that I'm trashing Mary because of me speaking THE TRUTH about her being an imperfect human being as we all are and just because GOD chose her as a vessel for our LORD to be born, that didn't change her humanity and didn't remain virgin, but she consummated her marriage with Joseph and have other children from him. You are challenged GOD'S WORD and that's very serious and read what THE LORD will do to those who do it!
---Melody on 10/16/18


\\We are saved by the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross.\\

Where does the Bible say that, or even use the expression, "finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross"?

BCV, please.

And as I have asked before, how do His Resurrrection and Ascension fit into your theory?

And as I have also said, our faith should be in Christ Himself, not a theory about how He saves us. Believe it or not, there IS a difference.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/17/18


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Cluny:

Mary was a sinner just like anyone else on this earth, GOD chose her of course, because of her devotion unto THE ONLY TRUE GOD, but once THE LORD JESUS was born - she became united with Joseph as his wife and she had children from him - she didn't remain a virgin, that's a lie from a religion that has made her 'an idol' together with many others - and a terrible judgment awaits those who have been instrument in sending to perdition multitudes of souls because of their idolatrous teachings: Is this what you are standing for?
---Melody on 10/17/18


\\and by saying that Mary was the only one (sinner as al of us) with no sin\\

I'm sure that Jesus loves to see you trash-talking His Mother.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/18


Hi Cluny,
We are all, including Mary, saved in the same way. You are correct, it is not by walking down an isle. We are saved by the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross. We all, (God's children) have this same salvation in common.

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
---trey on 10/16/18


trey, do you think that Mary was saved because she walked down the aisle of her synagogue to the strains of Adon Olom and prayed to accept YHVH into her heart as her personal savior?

No.

In Jewish thought, one was saved and redeemed by being part of the saved and redeemed people.

In any case, I remembered that the doctrine of achieving sinless perfection was a doctrine of the early Methodist, called the "second blessing."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/18


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Nicole...Scripture for your assumption that Mary was sinless?
---KarenD on 10/16/18


I believe it is possible. But I also believe that the person who is not sinning. Will even think about it.

Walking with Jesus leads us to be like Jesus.

We are to never be saying I am good since we know we are not good.

So just keep loving and following Jesus. Trust him.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/16/18


Nicole: "Wicked counselors" = Nahum 1:14 - it might open your spiritual eyes for the sake of your own soul!

Nicole again is showing that even thou she claims her own salvation, she keeps on propagating her idolatrous and false teachings and in that, trampling upon THE LORD'S HOLINESS AND SOVERIGNITY AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD and by saying that Mary was the only one (sinner as al of us) with no sin - and that's why she has said that she prays to her - terrible it is, that after reading GOD'S WORD - she has decided to keep on bending before false teachings and ignoring what GOD'S WORD says about those who worship 'other gods'= eternal separation from THE LIVING GOD!
---Melody on 10/16/18


If Mary were sinless she would not have said:
Luke 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Mary needed a saviour just like you and I need a saviour.
Also, it is my opinion that until we are free from this fleshly body we will never reach a point of sinlessness.
---trey on 10/16/18


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According to (1 John 3:9-10) it is. Understandably, most dont believe it because it hasnt happened to them. But for those who have been born of God, the verse reads exactly as it was written in the KJV. And yes...I have been born of God, as written in the KJV.
---David on 10/16/18


Cluny: To say nobody can do so is to doubt the power of God to so sanctify a soul in this world.//

Amen! Well said.

As you and I know God has proven He can and has done so with Mary.

//How likely this is to happen is another question--Cluny on 10/15/18

Besides Mary, we don't know. It is indeed another question.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/15/18


To say nobody can do so is to doubt the power of God to so sanctify a soul in this world.

How likely this is to happen is another question.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/15/18


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