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Living Through Tribulation

Would you recognize that you are living through the tribulation? (remember the boiling frog analogy)

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 ---Steveng on 11/1/18
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Samuel, the problem is I never read or follow anything invented anytime anywhere. This is what the Lord taught me through scripture.

If you dont understand the MYSTERY, you won't understand the rapture. and we all know the MYSTERY was not invented by anyone anywhere at anytime.

NOW, thats not saying many believe in a rapture based on something taught in the 1800's just like the doctrine of the Trinity. Even that has variations of doctrine I personally do not believe, yet it doesn't totally disqualify a Trinity.

Also Samuel, we don't agree on the issue of the CHURCH not being Israel. That too is part of the MYSTERY.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/18


1 Corinthians ......Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

So we see in Corinthians Paul is rebuking those who claim they are reigning NOW. He shows he is not of that mindset.

However below show we will reign and rule with Christ. WHEN? During the 1000 year reign.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy is death.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us.

IF WE SUFFER. This suffering is For all Christians from Pentecost to now. So we don't escape suffering.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/18


Dear Kathyr I understand and have studied your view.

It was invented along with dispensationism in the late 1900's.

I believe the older and more Bible based teaching. That Jesus comes to take all his people home. All at one time.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/15/18


Steveng, the purpose of the rapture has a couple purposes. 1) the Gospel of GRACE , which is the doctrine of our NEW CREATURE coming through our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life making IN HIM one new man, neither Jew or Gentile will be complete , this is called the Mystery of God, Colossians 2 and Revelations 10:7. I believe then the CHURCH aka His Body will be removed from the earth so that God can now turn to fulfilling His promises to Earthly Israel, Zechariah 12-14. Jeuss will take the throne of David here on earth for 1000 years and we His BODY will also reign and rule with Him. We are taken out to prepare for our responsibilities and assignments at that time.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/18


Kathr, what is the purpose of the rapture?
---Steveng on 11/14/18




Monk, you don't understand EAT MY FLESH AND DRINK MY BLOOD. So it's futile to even discuss with you both. Besides we were discussing the confusion of the different comings of Jesus Christ, where the Jews confused the two, one through the virgin birth, and the other as the Glorified Lord. I said it is "why" Judas and those in John 6 betrayed Jesus...because Judas as well as the multitude wanted to make Jesus KING then. It wasn't His time to be KING. That comes at His 2nd Coming.

And just as Judas and many in John 6 confused Jesus 1st comings as all in one, so do many today who think the rapture and 2nd coming is an all in one. WRONG! And many will betray Jesus over that confusion as well.
---kathr4453 on 11/14/18


Kathr4435 said, "I explained it already, but you refuse to listen and look at verses."

Cluny has been a Christian longer than I have, and I have been a Christian for 41 years. (That HAS been a long time)

Anyway, I do look up the verses, and I have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, so I DO know the "spiritual" meaning of ALL the verses.

He also has received the Holy Spirit, and is therefore JUST as understanding as you are, whether you believe it or not.

John 6 has NOTHING to do with the Rapture.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/13/18


WHAT??? Dont quote scripture? So you think the rapture is based on mans personal opinion? Steveng.....Is this why you don't believe Jesus is God, because proving through scripture is nonsense?

I believe in the rapture because it's in scripture...the scripture I was pointing you to.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/18


Again, Kathr, why do YOY believe in the rapture? What is YOUR belief the purpose of the rapture?

Don't quote scripture.
---Steveng on 11/13/18


Steveng, Firstly, I'll have to say the Lord showed me through scripture re the translation of the saints based on so many scripture, that I have often posted here. This was not something man taught me.

Also it's not something that can be explained in 125 words. It's actually something one grows up into as they grow up into the fullness of Christ.

One must understand Colossians 1:24-27 before that can happen. I've not seen anyone here that even remotely understands the MYSTERY.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/18




Stevens, after you read Colossians 1, go and read Colossians 2 and 3. Then tell us after you read and understand why you believe the BOC, those complete in Him, those who have been crucified with Christ and raised up a New Creature, who have already suffered the afflictions of Christ, Phil 3, 1St Peter 4, just for starters who are promised we are saved from the wrath to come who are no longer in the world, but are also crucified to the world and the world to us, Galatians 6......why would we not be translated out? We are NOT Earthly Israel, where different promises are to them, concerning the Great Trib. Matthew 24-25. I Don't have to worry about running on the sabbath to hide in the mountains...do you?
---kath4453 on 11/13/18


Kathr, why do you believe in the rapture? What is the purpose of the rapture?
---Steveng on 11/13/18


Trey, I think that is agreed , however THIS ONE is going to be different.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
---kathr4453 on 11/13/18


\\Yes it does Cluny, but you have to have the Holy Spirit within to enlighten you of those truths. \\

For my benefit, would you summarize why you believe that John 6 is discussing the tribulation, please?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/18


The greek word for tribulation is the word, "thlpsis" it means trouble but it also means pressure. When Christ spoke to his disciples and told them that in this world ye shall have tribulation. He was telling them they would have trouble and pressure. Is there any one of us who doesn't get stressed or feel the pressures of this life living in this sin filled world?
---trey on 11/12/18


Yes it does Cluny, but you have to have the Holy Spirit within to enlighten you of those truths.

I explained it already, but you refuse to listen and look at verses.

Cry and whine all you want, grouch, moan whatever. It only shows you are not in any mood to discuss, but only to ARGUE, something you just don't get, or what MAN has taught you. I can't help you there.

Are we done now Cluny?
---kathr4453 on 11/12/18


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\\I was talking about John 6 Cluny, and said so in a previous post. \\

John 6 has nothing to do with eschatological matters, which is the subject of this thread.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/12/18


I was talking about John 6 Cluny, and said so in a previous post. What's the problem YOU can't read? You seem to be guilty of everything you accuse me of. That is so funny.

Sorry you're not well Cluny. So I forgive you for your nasty comments back to me here and else where. If you don't like my posts just ignore. Like I said often, we just don't have the same beliefs on many issues. Deal with it.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/18


I'm not talking about John 6.

Where did you get the notion I was, kathr?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/18


You're too funny Cluny. Maybe the only verse in John 6 YOU KNOW is "eat my flesh and drink my blood". But for those who have read the entire Chapter, there is more involved here.

Is it you have to have the last word, even if it's a silly response? Your attacks have been really strange lately. It's also arrogant of you to always insist everyone but YOU is wrong. It's also arrogant to redicule anothers spelling when YOU can't spell....what...deith instead of deity.

Why the froward mouth?
---kathr4453 on 11/11/18


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\\ The Rapture is first, then the second coming. Judas had it wrong\\

So do you, kathr.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/11/18


Cluny, whether you believe it ot not YOU DO have an agenda. Making an absolute and then saying I have no agenda again is a contradiction.

I personally believe in MID Trib, but like I said, that is my belief. YOU don't have to believe it. Until the Lord shows me otherwise, I'm sticking with that one. I just dont believe in YOUR end times doctrine Cluny.
---kathr4456 on 11/10/18


So will be the second coming, but not in the order many expect. The Rapture is first, then the second coming. Judas had it wrong..as the multitude in John 6 also did. They wanted Jesus as KING right then and there, overthrowing Roman rule. That comes at Jesus 2nd coming, when He returns of KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS. Judas and these folks had the order wrong, and put their faith in the wrong coming, which it looks like they were not saved in the end BETRAYING JESUS. Those who are banking on the Church fulfilling the promises to Israel are in jeopardy of putting their faith in something not belonging to them. So it matters WHATEVER your faith is in.
---kath4453 on 11/10/18


There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture, kathr.

Those looking for one are expecting the Savior to follow their agenda for Him.

I have no agenda for Him, unlike the self-appointed Bible experts of 2000 years ago or today.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/10/18


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-----return, all the scriptures concerning it will be fulfilled as literally--and unexpectedly--as those about His first coming.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/9/18

Was it unexpected? Has not the Lord also given us scripture concerning His second coming, and Rapture?

Your statement above makes no sense. Those of faith did expect. Just like those of faith do expect, based on Gods word. Unexpected means not expected or unlikely to happen. That would only be the unbelievers. The Jews EXPECTED, but just not in the order Jesus came.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/18


Christians being murdered for being Christians has happened since Stephen was stoned to death after Pentecost. No reputable teacher or preacher would say otherwise. To continually accuse those who believe in dispensationalism, NOT HYPER DISPENSATIONALISM, or the Rapture of teaching Christians don't suffer or get persecuted is a lie in itself. And it's the continuation of those lies that has caused so much trouble. Also,there are many FALSE teachings who don't believe in the rapture or dispensations. So should we lump you all together?

Listen Christians in America also suffer persecution. It may be in a different way than in Saudia Arabia, or China. But NO CHRISTIAN will escape persecution no matter where they live.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/18


\\Right now Christians are being murdered for being Christians. But many ignore that truth.\\

Orthodox and other Eastern Christians are all to well aware of how we are treated, especially in mahometan countries.

The Eucharist is not even allowed to be celebrated in Saudi Arabia.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/9/18


Samuel, yes the same in Russia as well. But the teaching isn't about the rapture or dispensation but WOF false doctrine, aka the prosperity gospel. They also teach that if you are suffering in any way now, its because of sin. WRONG. And I dont believe those folks believe in dispensationalism or the rapture. So in those two areas they agree with you and Cluny, but so do many false religions. Just because someone doesnt believe in the different dispensations or teh rapture doesn't mean they are in the truth.
---kathr4453 on 11/9/18


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So true Cluny. I also read how many who lived in China lost their faith when persecution that they had been told would not happened. But when they were seeing Christians murdered they gave up their faith.

Right now Christians are being murdered for being Christians. But many ignore that truth.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/9/18


kathr, why do you say nothing about the Savior's words I quoted?

If you accuse me of not understanding, you shouldn't fuss too much when I say that you don't understand. It works both ways.

In any case, I never hidden that I reject Darbyism.

I believe that at Our Lord's return, all the scriptures concerning it will be fulfilled as literally--and unexpectedly--as those about His first coming.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/9/18


Cluny, that always seems to be your first silly response. I know you don't understand. Your previous remarks show your ignorance on the subject.
---kathr4453 on 11/9/18


\\Also God blinded SOME so that YOU Cluny could be saved. Romans 11. Just because you fail to understand, don't go knocking those who do. \\

You don't actually think that YOU understand, do you, kathr?

I would remind you what the Savior said.

"Because you say, 'I see,' therefore your sin remains.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/9/18


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There are two comings of the Messiah in the OT. One of being born of a virgin, and one when the Glorified Lord would come to set up His earthly Kingdom. They rejected Jesus , ( not all mind you ) like Judas did, because they didn't understand the ORDER,which is before a Glorified King could come, He first had to be born. And they didn't understand before He could come as their GLORIFIED KING He first had to die and rise again.

There has never been any confusion there. I think you don't know what you are talking about. AND one day the Jews will understand the order, and grieve.

Also God blinded SOME so that YOU Cluny could be saved. Romans 11. Just because you fail to understand, don't go knocking those who do.
---kathr4453 on 11/8/18


I would remind the Darbian dispensationalists that the Bible experts of 2000 years ago had it worked out according to their reading and exposition of the Scriptures just what the Messiah would do when he came.

Well, the Messiah came, He didn't follow their agenda, and so they rejected Him.

Let this be a warning to you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/8/18


Monk, only your mind would go there. ha Ha.
---kathr4453 on 11/7/18


"Kathr, Not to nit pick, but the word is spelled BOWLS. Your spelling leads me to think about the large intestine!---Monk_Brendan on 11/7/18" Sound like arrogant, condescending nit picking, to me.
---josef on 11/7/18


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Monk, Camilla Parker Bowles makes you think of the large intestines? That's funny. Now BOWELS is the intestine, but I don't believe I spelled that.

Funny, it appears we both goofed here. LOL
---kath4453 on 11/7/18


Kathr4453 said, "Well Gods WRATH the BOWLES begin in Revelation 11."

Kathr, Not to nit pick, but the word is spelled BOWLS. Your spelling leads me to think about the large intestine!
---Monk_Brendan on 11/7/18


\\"Don't argue with a fool, as if you do - you become one" - and no end to that!
---Melody on 11/3/18\\

This is why I'm no longer responding to you, Melody.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/5/18


Well Gods WRATH the BOWLES begin in Revelation 11. The Mystery that is complete, Rev 10:7 I believe is the completion of the BOC, the Church, and possibly that is when the Church is translated out to return with the Lord at His second Coming.

This is what I believe. No one else has to believe it. No salvation is conditioned on believing it. It's just what I personally believe.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/18


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"Those already saved are saved from the wrath to come. Thats a PROMISE from God. My faith is in HIS PROMISES." I agree Kathr, the overcomer will be caught up and changed for their encounter with Jesus as The wrath is initiated, and shall see the destruction of the wicked. At His coming.
---joseph on 11/4/18


Melody, which recension (edition) of the King James Version do you mean?

The original of 1611, which contains the Apocrypha?

The various British tinkerings, the last being 1769?

The Cambridge or Oxford exemplars?

The one issued by the American Bible Society in 1905 normalized according to American spellings?

Please be specific.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/4/18


Those who read the Bible will recognize the time. Since they will see the rise of the Antichrist which others are praising. But who preach hatred.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/4/18


Yes Josef. Its Gods WRATH poured out on those who take the mark. Satan will be all lovey dovey.

Its those who have not obeyed the Gospel as Thesselonians states. God is going to let them believe the lie. Those already saved are saved from the wrath to come. Thats a PROMISE from God. My faith is in HIS PROMISES.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/18


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Words of assurance to those whose trust is in THE LORD.

"Listen to my words o LORD,
consider my lament, hear my cry for help, my KING and my
GOD, for to YOU I pray". . .
Psalms 5:1,2

Victorious in THE LORD -
GOD'S People will remain!

"THE VOICE OF THE LORD is over the waters, THE GOD OF
GLORY thunders, THE LORD
thunders over the mighty
waters". Psalm 29:3

THE LORD'S PEOPLE in a
solid Foundation they are!

"Let everything that has
breath: Praise THE LORD". Psalm 150:6

In the midst of darkness,
THE LORD'S LIGHT excels
and triumphs"!!!

"THE LORD reigns, let the
nations tremble". Psalms
99:1
---Melody on 11/4/18


"HOWEVER there is another called the Great Tribulation that the whole world will go through. This one is not satans attacks but the WRATH OF GOD" The tribulation is the deception of Satan, the man of sin, the son of perdition, representing himself as God. Some will receive him, thus receiving his mark. The wrath of God is poured out upon this deception, and the spiritual fornication of the wicked.
---joseph on 11/4/18


We all need to remember there have been horrible tribulations on earth since the beginning. The flood for starters. We've had earthquakes, famine, horrible plagues that have killed 1/3 the population at one time, horrible wars. WWI AND WWII, vicious and horrible dictators, Nero, Hitler etc, where many Christians also died along with non Christians.

I bet all thought THEY were going through the GREAT Tribulation who endured these things. But in spite of many trying to endure to the end, ..endure what? Suffering? BUT no scripture says we are saved by our suffering or enduring suffering.

SO exactly what is one to endure to the end during the Great Tribulation, to be saved? Saved from death or saved from HELL?
---kathr4453 on 11/4/18


And as an old and very wise saying goes: "If the shoe fits - wear it"!


A man of understanding - read GOD'S WORD and confirms it". . . period!

"Don't argue with a fool, as if you do - you become one" - and no end to that!
---Melody on 11/3/18


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So far, Melody, you've not given a scripture for anything.

I'll give you one.

St. Paul said, "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counsellor?"

Obviously, both questions require a negative answer.

You don't think he was prophesying about YOU, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/18


For those in sincerity of heart and desire to be set free from pagan, false and idolatrous religions:
The Bible to study (and of
course by The Guidance of
GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT) is The
King James Version that is
aligned with the original
Scriptures that were
inspired of course by
GOD'S SPIRIT for all
those that throughout time
will accept IT as A Guidance
into THE ONLY WAY of Salvation that is through
our LORD JESUS CHRIST - GOD
that became MAN to redeems us
from our sins: "Praise THE LORD! - for all who fear GOD
and trust in HIM - are blessed beyond expression: Yes, happy is the man who delights in doing HIS COMMANDS". = Psalms 112:1
---Melody on 11/3/18


Cluny:

Enough of my replies to you, for even if I give a correct one in according to what true Christianity is, you use that to insult me and discredit my words - figure it out yourself if you are really sincere in finding out: I'm a Christian but that doesn't mean that I'll allow anyone to devaluate me, and that coming from THE LORD HIMSELF - start reading The Proverbs and get Wisdom!
---Melody on 11/2/18


Melody said, " GOD'S WORD (not the falsified and corrupt one that is sending the souls into eternal perdition)"

Okay, Melody, what is the correct WORD OF GOD to be using?
---Monk_Brendan on 11/2/18


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\\and to understand GOD'S DEITY . . . right now you can't - \\

You don't actually think that YOU understand God's deity, do you, Melody?

Are you that badly spiritually deluded?

\\for your efforts is to defend false teachings\\

Please tell me what false teaching I'm defending.

Be specific.

Or do you think refusing to accept your claim of being God's special spokesman is a false teaching?

Glory to Jesus Christ!!
---Cluny on 11/2/18


Cluny:

Your offensive words shows that you lack the Christian sensitivity that THE LORD admonishes in HIS WORD we should have one for another and if you start reading GOD'S WORD (not the falsified and corrupt one that is sending the souls into eternal perdition) and sincerely asking THE LORD to give you the right discernment into applying it for your spiritual growth and maturity, you'll then come to appreciate what GOD desires from us all: "Above all things, acquire Wisdom" and to understand GOD'S DEITY . . . right now you can't - for your efforts is to defend false teachings - and spiritually divided no one can't be - now and forever!
---Melody on 11/2/18


When the Hebrew Children were in Egypt the wrath of GOD feel down all around them. But they were spared most and warned of all.

We are the Children of GOD waiting for our deliverer. The plagues will not come nigh us as happened in Egypt. We will see the destruction and feel the hatred. But our Deliverer will save us at his Second Coming.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/2/18


All Christians go through tribulation trials and suffering the moment they/we are saved. Its hard to miss. But as James instructs, we are to count it all joy. We dont have to run to the mountains and hide or flee. We put on the whole armour of God to withstand the attacks of satan.

HOWEVER there is another called the Great Tribulation that the whole world will go through. This one is not satans attacks but the WRATH OF GOD aka THE DAY OF THE LORD, THE TIME OF JACOBS TROUBLE etc.

God our Father will never pour out His wrath on those who are His. Please know teh difference between the two.
---kathr4453 on 11/2/18


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Steveng, you have made it clear that you don't believe that our Savior is God Incarnate.

Melody, the only way you can fully understand God's deity is to be God yourself.

Are you claiming such?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/1/18


"Would you recognize that you are living through the tribulation?"
At some point I'm sure that I would:o)
---josef on 11/1/18


Steven:

Those who are THE LORD'S going through tribulations will receive their rewards: "All things work together for good to those who love GOD" - but what is the use Steve for those who doesn't have THE LORD and not acknowledge HIM as LORD AND SAVIOR - and sad to say it - you are one of those, as your own made up religion won't save you if you keep denying THE LORD'S SUPREMACY AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD that HE IS that came down to earth - became MAN in order to save us from eternal destruction and separation from HIS Eternal Kingdom?
L
eave behind your erroneous and distorted beliefs and repent before THE LORD and then . . . you'll understand HIS DIETY AND SOVEREIGNITY - now and forever . . Selah!
---Melody on 11/1/18


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