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Is Socialism Wrong

I recently heard a man say that Socialism is unchristian like. He believed that it was wrong to forcibly take from a man that has worked hard to make the money he has earned and give it to a man that has less simply because he has less. What are your thoughts?

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Socialisms record of genocide, poverty, starvation, crime, dysfunction, lies, etc, in addition to its hate for God, family, marriage, all proves that its unChristian.

SAMUEL. You refer to Matt 25 and James 2 about helping others, yet your spiritual ears and eyes are closed (Matt 13:13-15) hence you dont even understand these scriptures.

SAMUEL, your itching ears (2Tim 4:3,4) will only lead you to stray from truth.
---Haz27 on 12/1/18


In 1922 Moscow proclaimed the creation Soviet Socialist Republic

How well is that going - What hundred million dead ?

French Revolution Again ? Those who can not learn from history are doom to repeat it !

California- Mass exodus - Thousand middle class people leaving the state ? SF has places for people to shoot up ? Welcome to the New World !
---RichardC on 12/1/18


What country supports 1in 5 working to support the other 4 who don't work at all? Or a country where only 20% are working to support the other 80%? Maybe that sounds ok on paper but is it realistic? I don't know any country that has 80% of the population unemployed where the working 20% support the other 80%.

But if that were really the case, could the only working 20% of the population support the Fire dept, roads, police teachers and all else everyone benefits from. Should the non working be able to even call the police, or an ambulance or fire Dept? AND what % of those who are paid government employees part of the 20%?
---kathr4453 on 12/1/18


Richard, you are so right.

Socialism wants everyone to share ONE pie.

Capitalism says everyone can have their own pie and making more pies are encouraged.

But, many people refuse to work.

Socialists hate 2 THESSALONIANS 3:10

Note Paul said would not, NOT can't.

A difference.
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/1/18


The problem with Socialism eventually you run out of other people money : Margaret Thatcher

( If a person has Five dollars and there Five people in a room, And he has to give One dollar to each of them, What is that person incentive to work hard for another Five dollars ? )
---RichardC on 11/30/18




Samuel: The early church held everything in common. Which is type of Socialism.//

Well, not exactly. The Bible only states they lived in common and shared their belongings.

Not quite Socialism.

People were in charge of their own money.

The Disciples didn't take from them, nor threaten punishment
Nor dictated day to day living requirements. They advised only moral living. Which Socialist Countries operate opposite. They allow lure behavior, but control basic day to day living.

//To actually get socialism to work you would have to have perfect honest leaders who would never lie or steal. I don't see that happening.//

You got that RIGHT. If it didn't work in the Bible it will NEVER work Acts 6:1
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/18


Dear Nicole some good points. We are in agreement. I never said he didn't have money given to him. So you made correct points that fit with what I said. So you properly corrected my statement. Thank you.

The early church held everything in common. Which is type of Socialism. To actually get socialism to work you would have to have perfect honest leaders who would never lie or steal.

I don't see that happening.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/30/18


Samuel: Jesus didn't make money. So no taxes. Also prophets were not to be taxed.//

They still WANTED Him to pay the Temple Tax. Matt 17:24-27 And Jesus COMPLAINED about that tax as well V25-26

Proof, Jesus didn't BELIEVE in paying taxes.

Do the kings of this earth collect taxes and fees from their own people or from foreigners?... Jesus replied, "then their own people DON'T have to PAY.

Kings of this earth APPLIES to everyone who rules this earth.

But since He didn't want to cause any trouble Jesus paid the Temple Tax as I today. Except not from fishes.

//Jesus had no money. He kept giving all of it away.//

Where is that in the Bible?

He accepted monies for His needs. Mark 15:41
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/30/18


SELFISH Capitalism is from Calvinism. WE have already seen from the minds of Calvinist's God HATES the NON elect, therefore, why would there be any love or compassion for the needy, who in their minds are not the elect . But so many fail to see and research this truth, that a new REPUBLICAN RELIGION mixed in with our conservative politics now, is where and why this hatred for compassion is linked with socialism, democrats etc has found its counter part...here started with Dr James Kennedy....a Calvinist. Also the idea that America is Gods NEW Chosen People deserving of all this prosperity to the elect who's enemy is the poor.

Go back and research . And many who have fallen for this lie are not even Calvinist's.
---kathr4453 on 11/30/18


Back to the original topic:

I find the hypocrisy of many Christians on this topic to be unfathomable.

They complain about how ungodly and unfair it is for governments to demand that they give of their own resources to help those less fortunate than themselves, on penalty of jail.

Yet at the same time, they claim citizenship in a Kingdom whose King commands them to give of their own resources to help those less fortunate themselves, on penalty of Hell (Matthew 25).
---StrongAxe on 11/29/18




Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Many people forget that observation as you.

No. If I had forgotten it, I wouldn't have explicitly stated it.

You are responsible for your own stewardship.

Yes, and so is everybody else! This also means the government is responsible for its stewardship. YOU are not responsible for the government's stewardship.

Why do you think Jews hate tax collectors?

Because under Roman law, each district was counted by a census, and a poll tax was expected by region. Tax collectors weren't paid - they just got to keep everything they collected above what Rome demanded. So, tax collectors bad to be extortionists just to survive.
---StrongAxe on 11/26/18


StrongAxe: Yes, everything belongs to God, but that is not a particularly useful observation in and of itself,//

That's why Jesus told them that when they tried to trick Him. Many people forget that observation as you.

//you yourself say that taxation is theft - which it wouldn't be if one steward of God's stuff just gave the use of that stuff to another steward of God's stuff.//

Where is that in the Bible?

You are responsible for your own stewardship.

Why do you think Jews hate tax collectors?

Every Tax Collectors HAD to repent when they followed Jesus which included STOPPING being a Tax Collector.

I will tell you HOW you are wrongly quoting the CBO in the next blog
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/18


TRue Strong ax.

When Jesus said render unto Cesar what belongs to him. That means pay your taxes to him.

The Pharisees were saying paying taxes to the pagans was a sin. His answer shows it is not.

As a Preacher Jesus didn't make money. So no taxes. Also prophets were not to be taxed. Since unlike these get rich preachers. Jesus had no money. He kept giving all of it away. Judas did steal some. Like many today steal from GOD.

Others like the wicked in Matthew 24 refuse to help others. Read James.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/26/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Yes, everything belongs to God, but that is not a particularly useful observation in and of itself, because each of us has property that belongs to us (even though it also belongs to God), and even you yourself say that taxation is theft - which it wouldn't be if one steward of God's stuff just gave the use of that stuff to another steward of God's stuff.

BTW, people dropped their health insurance because they DIDN'T want the insurance.

No. The CBO said that under TrumpCare, over 20 million people will LOSE their health insurance (because they're not eligible for it and/or can't afford it) - NOT because they will merely choose not to have it.
---StrongAxe on 11/26/18


StrongAxe Jesus's "Render"..Many Christians revere the second part while ignoring the first part or holding it in contempt.//

Because everything belongs to God. God made everything.

//He was specifically asked about paying taxes, and he gave the answer - that we SHOULD pay taxes,//

No He didn't. That's why everyone was amazed because He neither said YES or NO

Remember they tried to trap Him.

Matthew 22:15 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted to trap Jesus in His words.

Matthew 22:22 And when they heard this, they were amazed. So they left Him and went away.

Jesus DIDN'T PAY taxes.

BTW, people dropped their health insurance because they DIDN'T want the insurance.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/18


Kathr, said this to me on the 16th:

***Nicole, I don't want to talk or debate with you...I get nauseated reading you. You have a foul, odious mouth and spirit. Like I've always said, you dialogue like a drunk bar hag.---kathr4453 on 11/16/18

So I reapplied to your statement by saying to you

***I will not exchange any more dialogue with you as you requested. God bless and peace to you.---Nicole_Lacey on 11/16/18

Just in case you forgot, I haven't.

Please stand by your request or take it back.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/18


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Good points Strong acts

Kathy

And Nicole agreed we should not cus.

Also no one should lie.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/25/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Jesus's "Render" statement contained BOTH parts. Many Christians revere the second part while ignoring the first part or holding it in contempt. He was specifically asked about paying taxes, and he gave the answer - that we SHOULD pay taxes, with no exception given because the government uses those taxes for less-than-godly purposes. It's Caesar's responsibility to ensure that taxes are used properly, not taxpayer's responsibility.

The Government promises free meds and doctors to everyone.

Yes, Trump promised better health care that would insure everyone, but his plan will insure tens of millions LESS than Obamacare. Yet another Trump lie.
---StrongAxe on 11/25/18


Oh for Pete sakes Nicole, now we have to listen to you dribble on and on with your holier than thou posts? Your president talks worse than that and you NEVER say anything about that. Oh how I hate hypocrisy. Grabb them by the p#%%y I find far more distasteful. And calling poor countries S#]+ hole countries.... Why have you never shown distaste for that kind of talk?
---kathr4453 on 11/25/18


Cluny: St. Paul was not above using a salty expression or two himself,//

Please give me an example.

What is shameful about NurseRobert is that he didn't spell it out because he knew it won't be posted.

People go to CN thinking it is free from curse words.

But when one uses initials it makes the reader pronounce the words themselves, thus saying curse words

I don't curse. And I am sure many on CN do not curse. So NurseRoberts tricked many people esp. Christian people into cursing when they chose out of morality and respect for Jesus not to curse either by speaking it or thinking about it.

You may be use to curse words used in your day to day living, I am not.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/18


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Nicole, St. Paul was not above using a salty expression or two himself, including "skata," which has the same meaning in NT Greek it has today.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/18


NurseRobert, shame on you!

Do you think putting initials of a curse word on a Christian website was nice?

Making people pronounce the words in their head.

That wasn't nice.


StrongAxe: Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's", He didn't call taxation theft, even when it was used for such egregious purposes. Why do you?//

Finish His statement.

He also said what belongs to God give to God.

I belong to God and everything I owe is His as well.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/24/18


The Government promises free meds and doctors to everyone.

---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/18

That is such a BS statement... Where do you come up with this stuff?
---NurseRobert on 11/24/18


Nicole_Lacey:

You call taxation "stealing", but it's just government allocating money as they see fit. That's the government's JOB, as duly delegated by the constitution and laws enacted by voters, according to the formula they decided (which may be $0 for low-income people).

Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's", even though Rome donated to pagan temples, paid armies to conquered and stole land, and funded persecution of Jews and Christians. He didn't call taxation theft, even when it was used for such egregious purposes. Why do you?

Why do Republicans scream about illegals "coming to steal our jobs" instead of welcoming them to do the excess jobs that nobody else wants?
---StrongAxe on 11/24/18


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StrongAxe: The government taxes everyone.//

No they don't. 49% of Citizen DO NOT pay taxes. Gov gives 49% people money they STOLE from the rich.

//And no, the rich DON'T take that money and create jobs for the Middle Class.//

Cite one job created by a Poor Man?

Before the tax cut they gave people $1000 bonus checks.

Remember Pelosi calling the checks crumbs?

//Did they raise wages? No. Did they hire more workers?//

Both. So, you made my point.

What? You DON'T another person the opportunity to work?

//No - in fact, many have LAID OFF workers.//

You are making up stuff!

We have more jobs than Citizens.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/24/18


Nicole_Lacey:

The government taxes everyone. If it gives a tax cut to one group of people, that is EXACTLY the same as giving that group the same amount of money as they would have been taxed, but now get to keep.

And no, the rich DON'T take that money and create jobs for the Middle Class. Read up on EXACTLY what large corporations have done with all their tax cuts since the recent tax cut. Did they raise wages? No. Did they hire more workers? No - in fact, many have LAID OFF workers. Many of them initiated stock buy-back programs that do not help their workers, and do not help their consumers, but whose sole purpose is to increase stocks, and make their own investors more rich.
---StrongAxe on 11/24/18


StrongAxe: Reagan's "Trickle-down economics" was based on giving money to the rich,//

No, no and no!The Gov gives the rich money. It's their own money!

A refund check means actually as it implies. The Gov REFUNDS their money they TOOK from them.

//NOT the middle class, hoping they would spend it,//

The Gov doesn't TAKE as much money from the Rich. The Rich uses there OWN MONEY the Gov didn't steal and create jobs for the Middle class.

NOW the Middle has money for the Gov to steal.

//Since Reagan, every Republican administration increased the deficit, and every Democrat administration reduced it.//

Are you pulling my leg?

Obama added more to the deficit than ALL POTUS combined.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Reagan's "Trickle-down economics" was based on giving money to the rich, NOT the middle class, hoping they would spend it, and the money would "trickle down" to the middle classes. This proved a failure time and time again. Whenever money is poured into the top, it stays there. Since Reagan, every Republican administration increased the deficit, and every Democrat administration reduced it.

Trump's latest tax cut shows this. Instead of resulting in more jobs, many companies bought back their own stocks, raising shareholder profits but not helping workers or consumers. In a graph of corporate profits and wages, corporate profits took a marked increase after the tax cuts, while wages stayed the same.
---StrongAxe on 11/23/18


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StrongAxe, you are confused with Carter's economic policies.

Reagan was the only president to lower taxes and grow the treasury.

Because he knew if you give more people (middle class) more money in their pockets that means more money from taxes into the treasury.

If 10 out of 100 are rich and pay $20 the Gov collects $200.

But if 10 rich people only pay $10 and invests the savings to create more jobs and pulls 40 people out of poverty to the middle class status. They pays $5 themselves, Gov collects $300 all together.

Only the rich creates jobs. That's how the middle class grows.

It's was so good they named it Reaganomics.

Google: 'The Rich, the Poor and Reaganomics' by Michael Novak
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/18


Nicole_Lacey:

I know some middle class people. I used to know more. I used to be one. Reagan's economic policies, and Republican presidents after him, have decimated the middle class.

Millions more gained health insurance under Obamacare than lost theirs.

OCB's job is LITERALLY to tally statistics like those. Are you suggesting a government agency is totally incompetent? If so, guess who is in charge of the federal government?

Read Washington Post article "The crazy reason it costs $14,000 to treat a snakebite with $14 medicine" and similar. It's too much to post in 125 words.

I have no idea what your Chick-fil-a/McDonald's comment means, especially in the context of this discussion.
---StrongAxe on 11/23/18


NurseRobert: Why is the United States prohibited from negotiating better drug prices for medicare/medicaid?//

They have. The Government wants the drug companies to go too low on their prices. Some have, but other refused. But the Gov also refuses to pay their asking prices.

The Government promises free meds and doctors to everyone.

Then when the people line up the Government has to find these Doctors, Nurses and drugs to give away.

If I am selling $700 smart phones don't come asking me to lower my price because you told people if they vote for you they will get free smart phones.

Politicians need to stop lying to people for votes.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/23/18


StrongAxe, do you know any middle class people?

It seems you only know 2 classes of people. Which are true in Communist and Socialist Countries.

Not here. Many in-between. You know the 'Forgotten Men'.

These people are the one who lost their health insurance because of Obamacare.

Then they had the PLEASURE of paying the Government yearly for losing their health insurance.

//I suggest you look up the word "priceless" in any dictionary. It means something beyond price - that nobody can afford.//

That's Obamacare!

BTW, NO ONE ever was personally charged $46,000 for 2 shots.

Go to Chick-fil a and order a hamburger.

Then go to McDonald's and order a Chicken sandwich.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/22/18


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StrongAxe, why do you all NEVER mention the millions of people who HAD insurance but LOST their insurance because of Obamacare?

Those numbers cancels each other out at the end.

BTW, having health insurance doesn't translate into healthcare. Like holding a credit card with a $50 credit limit.

When has the OCB estimates ever turned out correct?

They only spit out estimates from numbers giving to them.

In other words, if you give them people who make less than 40,000 a year capable of getting insurance you can get the math you want.

But if you open the range to $70,000 a year the number of people getting insurance increases.

Federal employees know how to play with numbers to get a desired outcome.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/22/18


Why is the United States prohibited from negotiating better drug prices for medicare/medicaid?
---NurseRobert on 11/22/18


Samuel: When a government decides that the needs of all will be paid by all//

When the Gov decides?

What Country are you living in? This is America not Cuba

Why do I have to pay for someone's healthcare who drank all day and abused drugs?

Why does my neighbor have to pay for my potential heart attack because I refused to exercise and ate junk food all day?

Where does my freedom start and end?

So I can abuse my body because it's my right.

And I FORCE you to pay for my bad living choices because I have the right to FREE health care?

When does YOUR right collide with MY right?

Who gets to DECIDE who's right is righter?

Europe is KILLING their old to control their healthcare.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/22/18


Why should health care be any different than the taxes we pay for roads, libraries, schools, parks, police protection and our firefighters etc, etc. Is having all those above paid for by EVERYONES taxes also socialism? Say those without insurance cannot afford to get vaccinated or their children vaccinated, ...would not that be a detriment to ALL? So you say...no they can get FREE from this place or that. BUt FREE also falls to the taxpayer who in the end is paying for the FREE. So why not ALL contribute according to their income? At least for basic healthcare. That does not mean FREE non emergency issues.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/18


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Nicole_Lacey:

Millions more have health care under Obamacare than before. OCB estimates 20 million will lose health care under TrumpCare. Every health care professional I have talked to in the past 2 years said they were afraid for what TrumpCare will do health care in this country.

Which costs society more? A few pills to keep a woman from having a child she can't afford, or decades of welfare for society to support that child? Republicans cut food stamps, school lunches, and child health care, since they think they can't afford to help existing children, let alone the extra ones that would be born without birth control.

And "*I* all" never demanded birth control.

I was in the U.S. in 2010, same as you.
---StrongAxe on 11/21/18


When a government decides that the needs of all will be paid by all. Some in the end will pay more.

In Europe a pill that costs $20 in the United States costs $1 there.

So if the Government works for the corporations but not the people. Is that okay?
---Samuelbb7 on 11/21/18


George Bush drove up the cost of healthcare when he added several things to Medicare , like ..Viagara. WOW! Is this a luxury, like birth control, Or a must? NO. No one on Medicare needs birth control. So maybe the government should stay out of the bedroom ALTOGETHER.

And Bush closed the door to many getting their perscription for years without incident from Canada. So did the drug lobbyists have Bush in their back pocket? I believe so.

Obama wanted everyone to pay something without giving away Medicade for free. Nothing wrong with that. But his idea would only work if EVERYONE bought healthcare, where even the poor could afford. I don't call that socialism, but holding everyone accountable to pay something.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/18


StrongAxe, I am NOT stupid and I KNOW about healthcare.

Before people the so called 'poor' as you deemed them to be decided to STEAL other people's money in forcing them to pay for their healthcare it was durable.

Obamacare is the REASON you CAN'T afford health insurance.

Private health insurance for a family use to cost the same as a high-end car payment.

Real poor people got Medicaid that USE to actually pay for real healthcare.

You all got greed and demanded BIRTH CONTROL in EVERYONE's policies.

Everyone no matter if they were men, over 50 yrs old, gay, women under 50 who had hysterectomies, and etc.

Now you want to complain about heath insurance?

Where were you before 2010?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/21/18


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Exactly Strongaxe. The woman had no insurance and that was what the Hospital billed her for. She had to file bankrupcy. NOW if she did have insurance, the Hospital can charge anything they want, buy the Hospital and insurance co have already agreed to set pricing regardless of what was initially charged. So if it is contracted the Insurance CO only pays say $200 per shot, that is all the Hospital gets.
But those without insurance get socked for the whole wopping $46,000, they would NEVER get from any insurance company to begin with. Please explain that one.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/18


Nicole_Lacey:

The rich can afford health insurance, and the poor can get Medicaid, but those must pay for drugs out of pocket.

The new TrumpCare will kick around 20 million people off health care that will cost little for health maintenance, and force them to use ICUs for much more, exactly the situation you complained about.

I suggest you look up the word "priceless" in any dictionary. It means something beyond price - that nobody can afford. And you might get your church to pass a hat for $200 in Mexican rattlesnake antivenin, but good luck passing the hat for $46000 in American rattlesnake antivenin, which YOU must pay if you have no insurance.
---StrongAxe on 11/21/18


StrongAxe: Insulin cost..$250 here now//

This Country, Companies and the Gov will give you free insulin

Publix give a man his insulin for free

Plus, the Gov would rather pay for your insulin instead of the ICU for diabetic coma bill.

//If $200 is out of my price range, a $200 chicken is no different from a priceless chicken.//

Again, you are NOT paying attention.

A priceless chicken means a free chicken.

Those are not your choices.

$200 chicken vs NO chicken.

You can get your Church members to pay the $200 chicken at the 1st store.

But at the 2nd store it won't matter if your Church gave you $1000.

You still COULDN'T buy a chicken because there ISN'T a chicken to buy.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/18


StrongAxe, Kathr asked me to let her alone. So I am respecting her wishes

I responded to your words. You said 'pill' not 'shot'

//cost of a pill from $100 to $23000.//

You don't know what you are talking about.

You DON'T have to PAY a cent in the ER.

You get treated FIRST and then the hospital has to hound you to TRY to get that 46,000.

Note the part that they charge the insurances $46,000 NOT you.

Why do you think people go to the ER for a common flu and not to a Jack in the Box health clinic?

No one and I mean NO ONE goes to their local doctor after a snake bite.

If you want to take the time to go to Mexico after a snake bite go ahead.

Cheap is only good for the living.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/18


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Here's something else everyone now needs to ask first from their Dr. Many today of coarse will charge for an injection of this or that and much is covered by insurance, HOWEVER many are now not only charging for the injection but are charging another fee of the labor of the nurse injecting the injection, costing as much as an additional $ 150.00 ( up,to the office) not covered by insurance or even regulated by the insurance companies. Some do and some don't . DR's can charge whatever they want. If it's a yearly vaccine, go to Walgreens or the likes who do not charge this additional fee.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Weren't you following the conversation? kathr4453's said: If you get bit by a copperhead in AZ it will cost $23,000 twice...you need two anti whatever totaling $46,000. The EXACT same two shots cost in Mexico $100.00 each.

Google: copperhead antivenin cost mexico
They say it's $14,000 a dose here, $100-200 in Mexico. How can Mexico produce a drug for 100x cheaper than the U.S.? Corporate greed. Remember PharmaBro from a couple of years ago?

Insulin cost $1 a vial in 1921, 75 cents in 1960, $250 here now, more than anywhere else in the world.
If $200 is out of my price range, a $200 chicken is no different from a priceless chicken.
---StrongAxe on 11/20/18


StrongAxe: doesn't raise the cost of a pill from $100 to $23000//

No pill cost $23,000. Not even a chemo pill.

Do you know what it takes to produces medication?

People will not take the TIME to discover cures without the promise of making money.

That's why U.S leads in Pharmaceutical production.

I am sorry about your cancer. But your words made my point. You can go back to Canada for cancer treatment IF you really believe in their healthcare.

AGAIN, the U.S. method is better.

If one store is selling chicken for $200 and another store refuses to sell the chicken because it's too higher for it's customer.

Which store is giving me the opportunity to buy the chicken?

The 1st!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/18


Well, God gave Joseph an idea that kept many alive during a famine and drought. It also looks like socialism. If it's unchristian, then it never would have come from God in the first place. Actually Capitolism began with Calvinism.
---kathr4453 on 11/19/18


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Socialism is unChristian. Consider Venezuela, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc

Sweden is not Socialist.
It's glory days were BEFORE 1960s, when they had a free economy, low regulation, which encouraged entrepreneurs to generate wealth for Sweden.
But in 1960s, Sweden redistributed wealth, which halted wealth creation. By 1990's wealthy entrepreneurs started leaving.
In 1994, Sweden implemented measures to reverse this trend, such as reducing regulation & spending, reformed Welfare programs, shrank Government (all anti-Socialist measures).
Result = modest growth.

Sweden tries to price healthcare at near zero, resulting in rationed healthcare, long waiting lines, so people go to other nations for urgent treatment.
---Haz27 on 11/19/18


Nicole_Lacey:

Inspecting factories doesn't raise the cost of a pill from $100 to $23000. That's pure corporate greed.

If I have the choice of spending $200 for two life-saving pills that MIGHT have a slight chance of possibly being manufactured under slightly less than perfect conditions, or of dying because I can't afford $46000, I'd gladly take the risk. But I'm not even given that choice, even though the risk of a problem is much lower than the risk of dying I faced when I had leukemia. The Big Pharma lobby funnels tons of money into congressional war chests to ensure that Congress forbids cheaper drugs from overseas, and even forbids our own government from negotiating drug prices to benefit consumers.
---StrongAxe on 11/18/18


StrongAxe, meds which are higher here and not in Mexico is because the FDA doesn't INSPECT factories in Mexico making the so called exact medication.

In other words, the factory has to clean certain ways, times with certain cleaning products Employees have to follow CDC's hand hygiene practices.

ALL Ingredients used have to be explained and approved.

My sister brought some Pain meds from Mexico. First 2 times it was the real deal. The 3rd time it was some type of placebo. She still doesn't know WHAT she swallowed.

She complained but she couldn't complained to the FDA who would have investigated the matter but not outside our borders.

That's the risks you take.

We are a leader in medicine for a reason.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/18/18


No, it's the exact drugs that are cheaper in Canada and Mexico.

If you get bit by a copperhead in AZ it will cost $23,000 twice...you need two anti whatever totaling $46,000. The EXACT same two shots cost in Mexico $100.00 each.

There is something seriously wrong with our healthcare system.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/18


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A few years ago I had an ingrown toenail on my big toe. I had insurance, and needed to call a foot dr, at my 50.00 deductible . So I go in, without any anesthesia , but maybe a topical, and the dr took,these tiny scissors and cut the nail along the side where it had ingrown. It was really easy breezy ....and wrapped it and that was that. Since I could also look online at this transaction, k could see what the dr charged my insurance co for this procedure. It was $900. I was shocked. Then I was asked to come back in 2 weeks for a follow up, of which I get charged another $50, and they charged my insurance co another 280.00 for NOTHING.

What a rip off. I bet regular family practice use to do this for near to nothing years ago.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/18


jerry6593:

I didn't equate socialist states to God. I said God established the principle of tithing - which taking resources from those who have and gives them to those who don't. Israel tithed to Judah, not God. Tithing was NOT voluntary. The Law demanded it.

*I* never said I consider government to be my god - yet another accusatory lie.

I never said there weren't other socialist countries either. Your claim that socialism is a failure depends on your single example of Venezuela, yet when asked for other examples of failed socialist countries, you don't show any. Cuba is communist, and I already agreed communism is a bankrupt ideology, so I'm looking forward to you coming forward with some other ACTUAL examples on point.
---StrongAxe on 11/17/18


StrongAxe: Canadians flocking to the U.S. for health care?//

Not for health care. Even the last Prime Minister came to the U.S for his CABE (CORONARY ARTERY BYPASS GRAFT) Layman terms open heart surgery.

Why? Are you going to tell me the man who runs Canada and it's belief in socialize medicine doesn't want to use it? Really?

Because even he knew it might have KILLED him!

//Why do Americans flock go Canada and Mexico to get drugs that are ridiculously over-priced in the U.S.?//

That is a 2 part answer.

1. They go to Canada/Mexico because they get drugs NOT approved by the FDA.

The FDA doesn't approve drugs that are dangerous for our health. (Except for birth control pills. Then they doesn't care)
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/17/18


jerry6593:

Canadians flocking to the U.S. for health care? Why do Americans flock go Canada and Mexico to get drugs that are ridiculously over-priced in the U.S.? Why can every other country in the world make drugs for prices consumers can afford - EXCEPT the U.S.?
---StrongAxe on 11/16/18


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ax: Now you equate socialist states to God via tithe. Pathetic! God never jailed anyone for failing to pay tithe - it was voluntary. I know that you consider government to be your god, but we Christians do not. My God affords me freedom, as does MY Constitution.

You are a failure as a mathematician. There are many socialist countries - not just Venezuela (ask Wikipedia). If you love socialist countries so much, why don't you move to a nearby one - say Cuba for instance.


---jerry6593 on 11/17/18


Why were so many getting their meds from Canada since we are so much better? Why do so many go to Coasta Rica for dental work?

Things may be great here for the rich, but the poor here have a better chance in Canada or even Mexico than here without any insurance.

You all presume everyone here is rich with the best insurance policies . Not so. I have a friend who has ulcerated colitis, and there is only 1 med prescribed, no generics, costing YES a big wopping $1800.00 a month. Medicare does not cover and this person is not rich or poor, so doesn't qualify for any help. Some nursing homes don't even cost that much a month.
---kathr4453 on 11/17/18


'Socialized Medicine in Sweden: Same Bad Medicine'--

One Gothenburg multiple sclerosis patient was prescribed a new drug but his doctors request was DENIED because the drug was 33 percent MORE expensive than the older medicine, he then offered to PAY for the medicine himself but was PREVENTED from doing so because the BUREAUCRATS said it would set a BAD PRECEDENT and lead to UNEQUAL ACCESS to medicine.

Malmo, to see a physician, a patient must go to one of two local clinics before they can see a specialist, the clinics have SECURITY GUARDS to KEEP patients from getting unruly as they wait hours to see a doctor AND the guards also PREVENT NEW patients from entering the clinic when the waiting room is considered FULL.-- By Bob Ellis
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/16/18


Nicole: Thank God you're still alive. CN wouldn't be the same without you. Why do you think that Canadians (and others) flock here for medical treatment when they could have the "free" socialist stuff where they are?







---jerry6593 on 11/16/18


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Nicole_Lacey:

Some pain is so great it cannot be controlled. Due to opioid abuse, opioids are restricted even from those who need them. Cannabis is more effective, but feds forbid it even though many states allow it.

How does choice help if it makes you 2000x times as likely to die? It's the same flawed argument anti-vaxxers and anti-seatbelters use.


jerry6593:

I AM a math major. If you have more bad examples than Venuzuela, make them.

Christian principles?! The very concept of the tithe, introduced in the Old Testament (and continued now in taxation) is the very essence of taking from one to give to others. If you don't like taxation, blame Moses, and God who inspired him.
---StrongAxe on 11/16/18


StrongAxe, I worked with cancer dying people. We have the TECHNOLOGY to CONTROL pain.

The Netherlands CHOSE NOT to control their pain, but KILL them because caring for them is VERY expensive.

I was ALLOWED to get insurances if possible.

If I was born in the Netherlands or Canada I would have been DENIED the opportunity AND KILLED.

MCTD has a 12 year life expectancy life. I was DX in 1992.

So they would have told me I would be in a LOT of pain and it would be better for me to die.

Guess what? I was in a lot of pain, but I had with pain meds. I choose to cope with less pain meds as possible and live with pain.

The choice was mine.

I want to LIVE!

GOD BLESS AMERICA for LETTING ME LIVE!
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/16/18


ax: "one particular bad example, as if that one single example proves their point."

You need a remedial math course. Venezuela is NOT the singular example of failed socialism. If you had integrity, you could find more if you would open your eyes.

Socialism stinks! It violates two Christian principles - Thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not covet. It is wrong to steal your neighbor's money and it's wrong to want his stuff. So, I ask you, how can a Socialist be a Christian?



---jerry6593 on 11/16/18


Nicole_Lacey:

"We won't cover your operation" leaves you just as dead as "we don't think the operation will help". The child you mentioned died after his operation. It couldn't save him, it just let him die at home.

Under TrumpCare, 20000+ more people WILL DIE than if they left ObamaCare in place.

Take your chances. DO THE MATH. 1 death in 37 million (.0000027%) in Canada, or 20000 in 350 million (.0057%) in the U.S. 2000x more likely to die from denied TrumpCare than denied Canada HC.

You weep for those who in NL who WANT to die via euthanasia, but not for those here who DON'T want to die yet die through bureaucratic neglect.
---StrongAxe on 11/15/18


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The devoutly Christian Romeike family fled to the United States in 2008 from southwest Germany after the German government threatened them with legal action for homeschooling their children, which has been banned in Germany since 1918.

German families who choose to home school their children anyway face legal action including potential loss of custody of their children and fines. The family had racked up close to $9,000 in fines before moving to the United States, settling in Tennessee.

The Romeikes were initially granted asylum by a Memphis judge who believed that Germany had unfairly restricted the family's religious freedom.--ABC News

They finally got asylum status
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/15/18


StrongAxe, it's one thing to die because you CAN'T afford health insurance.

It's another thing to die by the Gov who doesn't WANT you to USE the health insurance!

Health insurance for all UNLESS we say so????

I rather take my chances.

Holland: ***In March last year, however, Holland launched the worlds first mobile death squads to be dispatched in cases when family doctors refused to administer lethal drugs on ethical grounds.

The six units, comprising of at least a doctors and a nurse, were expected to send the number of euthanasia cases in Holland rocketing, with pro-euthanasia campaigners saying they would end the lives of an additional 1,000 borderline patients a year.--Daily Mail

I can go on and on.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/15/18


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Just as bad. Socialism nickname is 'light communism'.

Please show evidence that life in Sweden and Canada is "just as bad" as in Venuzuela. At least in Canada people don't die because they don't have health insurance to pay for much-needed health care, as many do here.

Yes, baby Joseph's case is a sad one, but compare the numbers. One baby in Canada died because doctors decided that an operation wouldn't save his life. (He was eventually transported to the U.S., and received a tracheotomy and DIED at home). Compare that to the Trump Administration's new health care plan that the Congressional Budget Office has determined will cause TENS OF THOUSANDS of additional deaths per year.
---StrongAxe on 11/14/18


StrongAxe: However, they ignore Sweden and Canada, and many other places where it actually WORKS.//

Just as bad. Socialism nickname is 'light communism'.

When a country CONTROLS your healthcare decisions they CONTROL you.

They believes they are more capable and wiser in making your and family's healthcare choices for you.

How quickly you forgot about baby Joseph.

Remember that baby? The Canadian Government tried to prevent his transport to United States for treatment.

They wanted him to DIE as they thought best.

Forget what the parents wanted.

Thank God for Priests for Life.

As for Sweden, people over 65 got asylum status for fear their OWN Country Euthanasia laws.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/14/18


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jerry6593:

I am constantly hearing those on the right saying "socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried", and pointing to Venuzuela - one particular bad example, as if that one single example proves their point. However, they ignore Sweden and Canada, and many other places where it actually WORKS.

COMMUNISM has failed everywhere it has been tried, but SOCIALISM has not.
---StrongAxe on 11/14/18


Cluny is confused. He's never asked me for anything, and certainly not on this thread.

Let's all pray for Cluny.

When Cluny says things like...Steveng, or Kathr, or Melody..."you don't think you are the only bla bla bla, IS NOT ASKING FOR BREAD. ". He's asking for a confrontation. Totally not bread. And has Cluny EVER EVER accepted any bread I have already offered here for over 14 years? NO NOT ONCE! NOW he's hungry? Why now? Monk says he and Cluny know more than anyone here. So it appears AGAIN Cluny is kicking up his own dust.

Let's all pray for Cluny .
---kathr4453 on 11/14/18


The first Christian community in Jerusalem was not communist. It was an extrodinary time, that did not last forever. Just like the time of the famine during Joseph captivity. That wasnt communism either. I'm sure during these trying times in CA, we will see much of the same thing of people sharing what they have with folks who lost everything.

Communism is when the GOVERNMENT dictates what people have and dont have. Roman rule did not force communism on the early Christians. It was their own choice to help one another. FREE WILL. And it was not mandetory.



---kathr4453 on 11/13/18


Everybody on here please take not.

I asked kathr for bread, and I received a stone instead.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/18


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The first Christians were not communists.

Even Peter told Ananias the land or money belonged to him.

And he DIDN'T have to give anything to the Disciples.

In a Communist country you don't have a choice and you CAN'T leave the Community.

No one was force to give money and couldn't get out of the community.

But lets just pretend they were communists

They prove the communist system doesn't works within a short time.

Acts 6:1 In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Hellenistic Jews[a] among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/13/18


Marxism is wrong, because it forces the population to give everything to the government, and then it meets out crumbs.

A true communism does work in a closed society--such as a monastery.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/13/18


It depends on what you mean by socialism.

The first Christian community in Jerusalem was even communist--but not Marxist.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/18


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