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Should We Be Baptized

Why do Christians believe they don't have to be baptized?

After all, if Jesus believe He had to be baptized how can His followers believe different.

Join Our Christian Chat and Take The Baptism Bible Quiz
 ---Nicole_Lacey on 11/15/18
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Again David you totally avoid and evade all scripture that we are crucified with Christ. That our old man is DEAD, our old man being that of the FLESH. you continue to change the subject matter calling what clearly is in scripture false teaching. Or anyone who BELIEVES in those scriptures as twisting scripture. However I see you are the one twisting and turning in every way to avoid even discussing it.
I said MY FLESH aka my old man or Adam 1 was crucified with Christ, and that the NEW MAN created IN CHRIST is who walks in the Spirit ....YOU SAID WAS FALSE TEACHING. HOW?

Either you explain how it's false, or move on. Romans clearly says WE ARE NOT IN THE FLESH BUT THE SPIRIT IF WE ARE CHRISTS. Do you believe this or not?
---kathr4453 on 11/29/18


David, please tell me what denomination/group you are affiliated with so I can research your beliefs to get a better understanding of what you believe. You simply are not making any sense here. First you claim Jesus was saved at His Baptism thereby receiving the Indwelling Holy Spirit...which I cannot find any such wording in scripture. I see God testifying that Jesus is in fact the Son of God, .....but you added things not in scripture. Jesus IS GOD already having the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And the Dove descend UPON, nothing about coming IN.

Are you also saying you too don't believe Jesus is God? OR are you saying at your baptism a dove descended upon you as well, saying THIS IS MY BELOVED SON IN WHOM IM WELL PLEASED?
---kat4453 on 11/29/18


And tell us why you think Paul is a false teacher?---kathr4453

Kathryn
I do not see Paul as a false teacher, I find your use of Pauls teachings false. Using your example, I will demonstrate.

(Galatians & 5:16) Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
If you sin, you are fulfilling the lust of the flesh. If you are fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, you are not walking in the spirit.
Kathryn, do you sin?

(Galatians 5:18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
If you sin, you have not been born of God. (1 John 3:9-10) Therefore, Paul can only be talking about those who can not sin, as not being under the Law.
---David on 11/29/18


Romans 8 our spirit witnesses with Gods Spirit that we are sons. And if sons then heirs, IF WE SUFFER WITH HIM. Hebrews declares EVERY SON will be scorged by God. That ALL SONS are partakers, and if you go without chastening, you are NOT a son. And that you KNOW you have passed from death to life when you love "the brethren.". Simply saying, before we were saved, we did not LOVE anything about God or other Christians...we actually didn't want to be around them. NOW we want to fellowship with them.

But we also have to remember Jesus didn't come to bring peace, BUT A SWORD. So folks, don't let others throw Salt Peter on your sword and call it love. If they do it's because they don't want to hear what you have to say.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/18


Also no scripture states that you receive the Holy Spirit after you are water baptized, Cornelius also being an example to us as How and in what order God works. Ephesians also makes no such claim, stating AFTER YE BELIEVE, then you are sealed with the Holy Spirit, sealed also means receiving the Holy Spirit.

What we do see is that Jesus was not SAVED after He was Baptized nor did He receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit at His Baptism. We do see the beginning of His ministry began then, immediately being driven into the wilderness to be tested 40 days.

So David, ....we to are also TESTED once we receive the Holy Spirit.....so, let's hear about yours. That's the TRUE TEST if you are really saved or not.
---kath4453 on 11/29/18




David, thanks but no thanks. It appears you are saying you deny the Cross, and do not believe any of the scriptures posted. Only the NEW Creature who walks in the Spirit and not the flesh, AKA our old Adam can manifest the fruit of the Spirit of LOVE JOY PEACE LONGSUFFERING etc as Galatains once again teaches, that those who are CHRISTS HAVE crucified the flesh, So David my challenge to you is this, tell us all why you do not believe Galatians 5:22-26. But first go back and read Galatians 5:16-21, as a lead up to verses 22-26. This is my challenge to you. Are you claiming your love comes from some other place...like your flesh which is the old man ? And tell us why you think Paul is a false teacher?
---kathr4453 on 11/28/18


Kathryn
People can change the Bible to say what they desire it to say, but the one thing you can not deny, is the condition of your heart. If you feel hatred for anyone...you are not saved.

You have to admit, that was a very wise thing for God to do. It is the most obvious sign of salvation, that you cannot override with misinterpreted scripture or by false doctrines.

It was the thing I noticed most on the day I was saved, I loved everyone. I debate you and others because I love you, and I want you to find the right path. Take my one week challenge and let God prove to you, whether your doctrine is right or not. Thats all I ask of you.
---David on 11/28/18


Since Paul makes it clear that there is only one baptism in Eph 4:5, why is there such a debate over baptism?
If Paul says there is only one then it must be the one baptism Paul teaches. found in 12:13 and Romans 6:3.
It is dry and performed by the Spirit baptizing you into Christ. This is the baptism that saves you. It is not water baptism of any kind.
---michael_e on 11/27/18


So the fact is David, you are not KEEPING THE WORD, and no love is being perfected in you if you deny the Word of Romans 6-8, Colossians 3:1-4, Corinthians NEW CREATURE, Galatians 2:20 summed up in Galatians 6....that nothing matters but the NEW CREATURE.

Satan can imitate what you might think is love, but He can't imitate the LOVE of God that comes ONLY through the CROSS. That kind of LOVE only comes through the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His Death SO THAT.....Philippians 3. Another truth you deny.
---kathr4453 on 11/27/18


Genuine LOVE for God is to proclaim HIS TRUTH, not our own. You can't say you love God and not speak His truth. We are called to be HIS WITNESSES. So we are to believe and speak the same thing according to scriture. The Bereans did it. They made sure everything Paul said was Gods truth, in scripture, and not mans made up truth.

I too may have an EXPERIENCE that is remarkable, however when that happens I ask the Lord to EXPLAIN according to HIS TRUTH. Those who don't are the ones who start false religions and cult denominations like snake handlers, etc.
Also no truth is a johnny one note. THAT TOO is where cults begin. ALL TRUTH has 2-3 back up scriptures the Lord will surely show you if you ernestly LOVE and desire the TRUTH.
---kathr4453 on 11/27/18




David, you don't get it. My NEW MAN is IN HIM, my old man was crucified with Christ. Galatians 2,20. 1 John also we have passed from DEATH TO LIFE. That's here and now. We live in the Resurrected Christ, the Resurrected Christ lives in us.

SCRIPTURE( Corinthians) tells me old things pass away all things become NEW. You're not a made over adam. The Gospel is not proclaiming Jesus died to make over your old adam, BUT to put that old adam to death with Christ and are raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE. Colossians 3:1-4 also reiterate. Who ever taught you otherwise is lying. No one who lies LOVES GOD. Satan is the author of LYING and hates the Truth. Either you are a new creatutre according to GOD or you have been deceived.
---kath4453 on 11/27/18


David, actually what you are teaching is to DENY CHRIST and claim you can climb over some other way. You've denied the CROSS, just as those Paul had issues with in Galatia. It's amazing how many will believe anything but the Truth of the CROSS. The preaching of the Cross is to those who are perishing foolishness. BUT to US who ARE SAVED it is the POWER OF GOD. The doctrine of the Cross includes our dying with Christ. Romans 6 Galatians 2,20. You can't LOVE God David and deny the Cross...Its a phony bologna love.
---kat4453 on 11/27/18


My old Adam is not being made over into someone nice, and desires to sin not. --kathr4453

(1 John 2:5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Kathryn
How is the love of God perfected?
Though I have hope one day, I dont expect you to believe my testimony of how God saved me. But I do hope you can accept the word of one who was taught by Jesus Christ. If you find time to Read the whole chapter, you will see what I said is true according to John.

Salvation is the changing of your heart. It doesnt happen by following mans doctrine, it happens by following the commands of Jesus Christ, given by Gods Holy Spirit. (John 14:21)
---David on 11/27/18


David, all that happens when we are Baptized into CHRISTS death and raised up together with Him a New Creature..Romans 6 is the NEW CREATURE not the old Adam who is created in righteousness and holiness who has no desire to sin. And it's our NEW life in the Spirit...Romans 8 that has set us free form our bondage in the flesh.

So I believe exactly as God has told me in scripture what has happened to me, not what I think happened. My old Adam is not being made over into someone nice, and desires to sin not. That is not what scripture teaches in Romans 6-8. You want to give yourself credit for something GOD alone is doing IN YOU called sanctification. So again Romans 6 baptism is not about water as many here are trying to tell you.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/18


Samuel: Those who love don't live in sin. They may not be perfect either.//

What do you mean by living in sin?

If you sin, you sinned.

Do you mean habitual sinning?

How many times do you consider habitual?

Jesus said you must be perfect as His Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48

Perfection is 0 sins

But it is also in the OT as well Leviticus 19:2 Deuteronomy 18:13 and 2 Samuel 22:31

Paul lived in loved and lived in sin and wasn't perfect as he said so himself

Philippians 3:12

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/26/18


\\ Yet scripture shows some young men Paul found who only had water baptism , but never heard of the Holy Spirit.\\

Wrong again.

It was only John's baptism, not Christian baptism, which is in the Name of the FAther, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Had they had Christian baptism, they would have heard there is a Holy Spirit.

If you don't believe me, read it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/26/18


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David I mostly agree. But as it says 1John 2:1-4 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Those who love don't live in sin. They may not be perfect either.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/26/18


How do you know you are saved...?---kath4453

Kathryn
(1 John 3:9) is the sign given when we know we are saved. This happened to me almost 20 years ago. When you battle with a sin for most of your adult life, and then the desire to sin is no longer there, its very noticeable.

When that which caused you to sin, dies, it is then replaced with a love for God and a love for man. This love for man is also very noticeable, to a man who hated.

Through my relationship with God, My love for God became greater than my love for sin. I believe your love for God kills that which causes you to sin.

And if you sin, you have not been born of God. If you think you have, you are only fooling yourself.
---David on 11/26/18


Well, we'll all just have to wait and see who God saved and didn't save according to His Word, not ours.

So according to Nicole and Cluny, all those baptized babies should grow up becoming perfect little Christians, but that's not happening. Look at those in the Mafia, or all those priests who molest....the list goes on and on, especially with those who continue to take sacraments, etc etc.

So Clunky, your way shows no proof of salvation, so why the smug remark? I don't see any proof of those who keep WORKING for salvation.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/18


Well,it appears David gave his own personal experience and seems to demand that his experience is the ONLY TRUTH. Yet scripture shows some young men Paul found who only had water baptism , but never heard of the Holy Spirit. Also we see Pricilla had the same encounter with Apollo,earnest as they all were had an incomplete understanding, but they before hearing the rest they too thought they were ok. ...NOT.

That's my testimony. I had only 1/2 the understanding of the Gospel, until I heard the other half....ROMANS 6-8, Romans 12:1-2. Only those crucified with Christ who DIE TO SIN, can OBEY GOD. It's all clearly spelled out right there .....You all may not like that fact, but try telling that to God.
---kath4453 on 11/26/18


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I also can't imagine David even WNATING to be baptized before obeying the Gospel in the first place. Who does that, except those who,do infant baptisms and no obedience of faith is required of personal faith in Jesus Christ.

But as far as working towards salvation, scripture says otherwise. Those whom God has Justified He has also Glorified. We are complete in Him, sanctified once and for all through the Body of Christ.

I don't think Lutherans believe the above either.
---kat4453 on 11/26/18


\\
David, no one can be obedient to God before they are saved,\\

Then how can the unsaved person make the act of saving faith and say the unbiblical "sinner's prayer" before he gets saved?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/18


Cluny, such a silly moronic comment. The Bible is Gods word about who God is and who we are and our eternal destiny. Our eternal life has nothing to do with how our computers or lap tops work or how to fix our iPhones. If that was absolutely vital to our salvation, then God would certainly let us know through His word.

Your reasoning is something not even a 6 year old would come up with.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/18


David: Personally, I didnt know of a relationship with God, the years of going to church, before I was baptized. It began after my baptism. Though I am saved now, it was more than 30 years after my baptism.//

Yes, you are right.

That's why the Catholic Church doesn't like the one stanza in Amazing Grace speaking about 'How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed'

It takes Grace from God for you to come to Him.

No one comes to God without God luring us to Him.

After Baptism you receive the Gifts of Holy Spirit that build the great 30 yrs relationship with God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/25/18


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//BTW--how much modern US history did you learn from the Bible?//
The same amount of salvation you learned from US history
---michael_e on 11/25/18


True and funny Cluny.


Good points kathyr.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/25/18


David, no one can be obedient to God before they are saved, anymore than one can perfectly keep the Law. Everything about our fallen nature is at emnity with God. Our flesh no matter how hard we try cannot please God. So I really have no idea what you are talking about.

David, I really don't know what your faith is, but it's not grounded in the Gospel. Our self effort or self works cannot earn salvation, or even earn more affection from God than the worse of sinners. So actually I believe only those who admit that nothing they have or say or do can earn Gods grace. salvation Is a GIFT that comes ONLY to those who put their faith in Jesus death and resurrection admitting they are sinners, not brown noser's.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/18


Also no scripture says we are saved through an obedient relationship with God. NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST! You are boasting David. So tell us, are you saved by your first act of obedience? Or your second? Possibly third? Or just gradually saved over time? And exactly what acts of obedience earn salvation? Baptism? Communion? What? So you put the cart before the horse. Baptized first and THEN salvation will follow MAYBE? How do you know you are saved, and when you are saved or IF you are saved? Do you ever know, or do you just wait and HOPE SO, never having that assurance? Exactly what faith do you belong to? You say you are not Protestant or Catholic, not Jewish...so what are you? Mormon perhaps?
---kath4453 on 11/25/18


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\\Choose now to trust your Bible as Gods word completely. \\

Next time my computer breaks down, I'll read in the Bible about how to fix it.

BTW--how much modern US history did you learn from the Bible?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/18


No scripture teaches one is water baptized first in order to get saved.--kath4453

Kathryn
I believe God saves us, and we are saved through an obedient relationship with God. That relationship is not God being a taskmaster, and us being his slaves.

The relationship is also not one of God owing us for our servitude. The relationship is more like being obedient children to a father, obedient because we love to please him. And God will save those..... he has come to love, through this relationship.

Personally, I didnt know of a relationship with God, the years of going to church, before I was baptized. It began after my baptism. Though I am saved now, it was more than 30 years after my baptism.
---David on 11/25/18


//You don't actually think the NT is all there is to church history, do you?//
I actually believe that the Bible is the final authority.
Choose now to trust your Bible as Gods word completely. It will help your Bible study tremendously. The first line of defense against Bible confusion is to trust Gods word to be without mistake. Let men make the mistakes.
---michael_e on 11/25/18


Michael_e, BCV at least 2-3 clearly stating that Baptism, is not necessary for believers.

We see the gifts listed in Ephesians 4, where God has given each and every one in the BOC a gift. Paul's gift was what? Evangelist? So do all Evangelists baptize, or do they travel on to the next place. Does scripture state everywhere Paul went he started a Church? Some places he did, other places he stayed with Christians already there.

God didn't call Paul to cook Wed Night dinners either, but that doesn't prove that a Wed Night Church Dinner belonged to another Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/18


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1Cor 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. Here Paul is talking about in Corinth. Lydia and family the Jailer and family were all baptized after Paul preached HIS GOSPEL.

No where does Paul say baptism is not necessary. You can see it all very clearly where it is bolded, exactly WHAT Paul is trying to convey.
---kath4453 on 11/25/18


\\
//Because baptism was normally done by the local presbyters.//
BCV for this explanation please\\

Read early Christian documents such as the Didache.

You don't actually think the NT is all there is to church history, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/18


//Because baptism was normally done by the local presbyters.//
BCV for this explanation please
---michael_e on 11/25/18


It's wrong to PRESUME, and that is all it is, that because Paul said God didn't send him to baptize but to preach the Gospel , that there is no such thing as NT baptism. Paul did baptize, so we see he did not proclaim in any way the NT church did not need to be baptized. I know Billy Graham when preaching the Gospel did not afterwards personally Baptize everyone who professed Jesus Christ. So I believe Cluny is correct here. Unless you can find 2-3 scriptures stating the BOC under Pauls Gospel clearly omits baptism, then it is a PRESUMPTION. Please don't put your faith in PRESUMPTIONS.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/18


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\\There are many reasons why Paul would baptize, but the important question concerning water baptism is why Paul stopped baptizing? \\

Because baptism was normally done by the local presbyters.

Next question.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/24/18


Paul explains why, Baptism is Jewish, and Paul was a Hebrew of the Hebrews (Phil 3:5).
Paul was sent to minister to Jews also, and he became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews, to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law (1 Cor 9:20).
There are many reasons why Paul would baptize, but the important question concerning water baptism is why Paul stopped baptizing?
Paul says, I thank God I baptized none of you , save a few, and For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel (1 Cor 1:17).
When Paul says Christ sent me not to baptize, he is confessing he was not following Matt 28 or Mark 16 in his ministry, nor was he baptizing under the same command given to Peter.
---michael_e on 11/24/18


The OT ritual of washing was not baptism. These washing, for purification were practiced by the Priesthood before sacrifice, or a woman after her monthly, etc. It could be equated to Jesus washing Peters feet, but even that was NOT Baptism.

Some Protestant Churches today equate OT Circulcision to NT Baptism from the spiritual aspect of that of entering into Covenant with God, and this is where they equate infant baptism, because babies were circumcised the 8th day. But even that is wrong. Circumcision TODAY is equated with our identification of being Crucified with Christ ...as we see clearly defined in Colossians 2. It's something ONLY GOD CAN DO , not us, when we receive Jesus Christ, which no infant has that ability to do.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/18


\\It was first known by Paul that water baptism was not required and was separate from the true forgiveness of sins which is through Christs blood (Eph 1:7).\\

Then why was St. Paul baptized by Ananias, and even baptized others if it were not required?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/23/18


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Even in the OT, only the blood of bulls and goats covered until Jesus shed His own blood for the forgivness of sin. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgivness of sin, and THAT was established from Adam and Eve to today. So seeing Israel was already Gods chosen people who practiced sacrifice, water Baptism was NEVEtR said to replace sacrifice, but Baptism was almost like a REdedication of individual Jews rather than a national thing.

So when you see Peter in Acts preach to Jews, it was on the ground they were already God's .....to the Jew FIRST and then to the Gentile. Gentiles were not already Gods, and much of what Peter preached did not necessarily apply to Gentiles. So it doesn't mean it was two different gospels.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/18


No one preaching water baptism understood the preaching of the cross. Wherever the baptism gospel is presented it is presented for remission (forgiveness) of sins.
But Paul taught the cross of Christ for forgiveness of sins. Water baptism had been supplanted by something greater.
At one time the gospel of a kingdom and remission of sins was intimately tied to water baptism. That is, until Paul.
No wonder that there are so many confusions about water baptism when people fail to recognize the special revelation given to Paul from the Lord.
It was first known by Paul that water baptism was not required and was separate from the true forgiveness of sins which is through Christs blood (Eph 1:7).
---michael_e on 11/23/18


\\I didnt, but it is implied in the verse you used.\\

No, it isn't.

Baptism would be autosoterism if and only if you baptized yourself.

But you don't, do you?

You RECEIVE baptism at the hands of another.

I've pointed this out several times.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/23/18


Where did you get the idea that I thought that, or being baptized was autosoterism? Cluny

I didnt, but it is implied in the verse you used. I challenge folks with contradictory Bible verses, thus leaving them to argue with God. You did the same to me...which I thought was very clever.

Autosoterism...good word.
---David on 11/23/18


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David, I believe as scripture clearly shows that faith comes by hearing the Word of God First, namely the Gospel. Just as Romans 10 show step by step THE GOSPEL. I believe as Scripture shows The WORD OF GOD IS LIVING AND POWERFUL ANS SHARPER THAT A TWO EDGE SWORD, and can cut beyond our sinful hearts and conscience to hear the Gospel of God calling sinners to turn from sin to God through His Son Jesus Christ who died for our sin that we may have the righteousness of Christ. Many resist the Holy Spirit' s call.

Then those who hear this call and receive Jesus Christ are by the power of God baptized into Jesus Death and raised up together with Him a New Creature, THEN being given the ability to walk in the spirit and not the flesh.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/18


I believe in the Word of God David, and don't actually feel Protestantism has anything to do with it. There were no Protestants when the NT was written nor were their Calvinist's , as some claim Paul was a Calvinist. WRONG. We acts on faith, but scripture says faith is NOT of works.

So to some FAITH is works which no scripture teaches.

Also David, no scripture teaches one is water baptized first in order to get saved. Go and read about Cornelius. He HEARD the Gospel, then believed the Holy Spirit came exactly when Peter was preaching the Gospel and then AFTER they were baptized. Again that pattern was repeated over and over we see all through out Acts. Even Paul was not water baptized first and then saved.
---kath4453 on 11/23/18


1Peter 3:21 is explained in verse 22. To use verse 21 alone is wrong. There are many false doctrines built on one verse alone. Scripture needs at least 2 to 3 other supporting scripture to clarify any truth. Verse 22 tell exactly what kind of baptism saves, and it is NOT the washing away the sins of the flesh, as was John's baptism. The WASHING is the washing of the water by the WORD. The water of the WORD, is sanctification, not justification. Sanctify them through thy truth...THY WORD IS TRUTH.
There is no power in water, and no such thing as holy water either. The Jordan River is not Holy Water either. But it is Interesting Jesus was baptized in the very same Jordan that the Israelites crossed over into the Promise Land.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/18


But I know I was born Again and received the Holy Spirit before I was Baptized. ---kath4453

This has always been a confusing part of the Protestant faith. God saved you, and yet you didnt do anything to be saved. Can a person who doesnt accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, be saved before he accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior? If so, can you explain how?

I ask you because though we disagree, you have an exceptional grasp of Protestant doctrinal theology.
---David on 11/22/18


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\\But Do you really believe you can save yourself by being baptized? \\

Where did you get the idea that I thought that, or being baptized was autosoterism?

Thanksgiving gift!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/22/18


"Baptism doth now save us."1 Peter 3:21 ---Cluny on 11/19/18

Touche
Totally contradicts what I said. But Do you really believe you can save yourself by being baptized?
---David on 11/22/18


David, finding favour is the same word in scripture as finding grace in Gods eyes. You also claim only those who find favor/ Grace in Gods eyes are the ones God saves.

Jesus came FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH. Jesus also didn't need to find Grace in Gods eyes, since He already had Grace, and it's only through Jesus death and resurrection one is saved, not water baptism.

The verse does not say....This is my Son in whom I am NOW PLEASED because He is baptized. If that were so, then God would have declared this ststement to the multitudes John the Baptist baptized before Jesus, saying they too found favour with God because they chose to be water baptized.

We see Mary FOUND FAVOUR with God and no baptism is recorded with her.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/18


I was baptized, and would do it again and again. But I know I was born Again and received the Holy Spirit before I was Baptized. There are what seems to be 2 different types of baptisms, one where a priest says, I baptize you in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit, and another when the Pastor uses total submersion and says, BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM UNTO DEATH AND RAISED UP TOGETHER WITH HIM A NEW CREATURE. Mine did the last one here. And THAT and those words are exactly what I believe Baptism of a New Believer is about. Making a public and personal testimony of your new life IN CHRIST.
---kath4453 on 11/22/18


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There are cases where Baptism is not possible or the person dies before they can be baptized.

But to tell GOD. I know you say to be baptized. But no I will not be baptized. That is telling Jesus. You are not My Lord. If he is not your Lord. Then he is not your savior.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/21/18


Michael_e, I agree with your last statement 100%.

And Peter shows this same baptism through his statement of Noah. The FIGURE Peter is talking about concerning the Resurrection of Jesus Christ can only be realized by being first crucified with Christ, AKA being baptized into His death, and raised up together with Him a New Creature, where our conscience only then can be purged by the blood of Jesus, to serve the living God.

Peter is reiterating what Paul said or vice versa showing Peter understood the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and our identification with Him. He just says it in a way using types figures and shadows of scripture.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/18


Jesus didn't FIND FAVOR with God because He was baptized,---kathr4453

(Matthew 3:16-17) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Kathryn
When did God say he was well pleased with his son...before or after his baptism?
---David on 11/21/18


Nobody need drown in water to be in Christ, and neither was there water at the cross, nor Rom 6. Paul isn't talking about Jesus water baptism here, he's talking about Jesus baptism unto death.
When believers are baptized by the Spirit into the boC (1 Cor 12:13), we are baptized into the death of Christ.
His death, becomes ours (Rom 6:6) His resurrection, becomes ours (Rom 6:8). Without this baptism into the Lords death, we are still in our sins. This is the baptism necessary for salvation
The Lords water baptism doesn't accomplish anything for us regarding righteousness or salvation. If we are to follow the Lord, we must follow Him in his second baptism, as the Spirit baptizes us into Christs death to be saved by Gods grace.
---michael_e on 11/21/18


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Christians need not be baptized if and only if it can be proven that the Savior's commandment to be baptized is meaningless and not obligatory.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/18


Baptism...believers prayer...etc, will not save you. God saves those he finds in his favor, and if Jesus found favor with God when he was baptized, I believe we will too.
---David on 11/21/18

Not a word of truth in the above ststement. No scripture backs up any of the above. Jesus didn't FIND FAVOR with God because He was baptized, for one thing, and salvation is not based on anyone finding favor with God. We are saved by FAITH in Jesus death and resurrection. If we can't come to the Father except through His Son, How is God picking and choosing who He decides to have favor on apart from His Son?
---kathr4453 on 11/21/18


How do we know they were not baptized?---Nicole_Lacey

In (Acts 10:44-48) there is an example of folks who had received the Holy Spirit without being baptized. But...Peter then commanded them to get baptized.

If he commanded them to do it, I believe it must have been important. The important thing for people to understand, is that only God can save us.We can not do anything,...on its own,.... that will save us.

Baptism...believers prayer...etc, will not save you. God saves those he finds in his favor, and if Jesus found favor with God when he was baptized, I believe we will too.
---David on 11/21/18


Acts 11:15-17 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord, and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. Please read verse 26.

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed? THEY HAD NOT.


So we see in more than one place that water baptism alone does not save. And water baptism did not bring the Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/18


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Thanks Cluny,. Sorry my last post said dead sea when I meant Red Sea. We see no one got wet there either except the Egyptian Army.

There is a great verse in the OT I believe on Psalms.....we came through fire and water you brought us to a place of abundance.

Psalms 66:12
I love that verse
We are tried by fire, which also is baptized with fire. So baptism is an experience not just something going through motions.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/18


kathr, it's only because of their connection to the Resurrection of Christ that Baptism or any of the sacraments have their efficacy.

You forgot to mention the crossing of the Red Sea by the Israelites. St. Paul in 1 Corinthians says they were BAPTIZED into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

This included the infants, btw.

He says they also ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink.

So this would be a figure of Communion--including infant communion, which the Orthodox practice.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/20/18


There's also a wonderful type of baptism shown in Joshua 1-4 when Israel crossed the Jordan into the promise land. This also represents death to the old and resurrection life, where the ARK goes before the people . The ark represents Jesus Christ who went before us in death and resurrection. They entered in to the promise land by faith, as we enter in by faith IN CHRIST. Christ is OUR promise land, but we too must CROSS OVER from death to life. And as you see, the waters dried up, as did the Dead Sea , where no one got wet.

There are so many types and figures in the OT we should never overlook as examples of explanation.
---kathr4453 on 11/20/18


David: There are two ways to recieve the Holy Spirit. One way is without water. The day of Pentecost being a good example of this.//

Thanks for answering.

How do we know they were not baptized?

Would Jesus get baptized and not expect His Disciples to be baptized?

I personally believe the 12 were baptized when Jesus washed their feet.

Jesus told Peter he is cleaned.

John 13:10 Jesus answered, Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet, their whole body is clean. And you are clean,

It might be like our form of Confirmation.

Remember, I am not speaking on behalf of the Catholic Church. These are my thoughts.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/20/18


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1 Peter 3:20-21

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Even Peter shows a no water baptism, as not a cleansing of the flesh, but water here is verse 20 is that of death. Noah and family did not get wet. The flood brought death, and the new earth is that symbolic of resurrection life.
---kathr4453 on 11/19/18


\\Baptism does not save you, \\

That's not what the Bible says.

"Baptism doth now save us."

1 Peter 3:21

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/19/18


There are different baptisms in the Bible most dry.
John the Baptist clearly baptized with water (John 1:31, Mark 1:5).
Matt 3:11 identifies two other baptisms.
A Spirit isn't water, and baptism with fire evaporates moisture.(Isa 4:4: Mal 3:2).
The baptism of Israel unto Moses (1 Cor 10:2) They walked on dry ground and Egyptians drowned.
Baptism has become synonymous with water baptism, but baptism doesn't mean water. A better definition is someone is identified with something.
That's why Paul describes a baptism into the boC (1 Cor 12:13. Rom 6:3 Gal 2:20).
Baptism with water symbolized cleansing not death, as in the remission of sins (Mark 1:4). Today our sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ through his death.
---michael_e on 11/19/18


Nicole
Many in the Protestant religion see baptism into the Holy Ghost as a baptism without water. When by its very definition, baptism is with water.

There are two ways to recieve the Holy Spirit. One way is without water. The day of Pentecost being a good example of this. Many Protestant believers call this being baptized into the Holy Spirit, though no baptism is performed.

The other way is through water baptism. Which is what the Bible is actually referring to when it uses the term, being baptized into the Holy Spirit, because when you are baptized with water, you recieve the Holy Spirit.

Confusing I know,...but thats religion for you.
---David on 11/19/18


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Michael: If you think baptism must always include water, then you are a little wet behind the ears.//

I guess both Phillip and the Eunuch are wet all over the ears.

Strange, since Phillip was a Disciple of Jesus.

How could he been so mistaken about Jesus' commands in Matthew 28.

Acts 8:36-38 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized? And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.

//There are many examples of baptism in the Bible, the one baptism you need does not require a single drop.//

Please give some those examples
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/18/18


David wrote: "The Gospel is all about what we must do..."

The gospel is the soon to come Kingdom of God. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Colossians 3:12
Matthew 11:12
Matthew 6:33

David wrote: "Jesus was a teacher of WORKS."

Jesus and the apostles taught about the kingdom and also taught how to get there through LOVE - as in the verb form.
---Steveng on 11/18/18


There is only one baptism Paul says is necessary in the church, and it doesn't include water or a priest to perform it. It's by the operation of God when we believe the gospel of the death and resurrection of Christ (Eph 4:5).
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:12
If you think baptism must always include water, then you are a little wet behind the ears.
There are many examples of baptism in the Bible, the one baptism you need does not require a single drop.
---michael_e on 11/17/18


Baptism does not save you, but as Jesus taught, through baptism we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Which is an invaluable gift, a gift that is given, so that we can be saved.

Though I love the Epistles of Paul, I wish his writings could be separated from the Bible. This way, folks would be inclined to make the Gospel of Christ the foundation of their faith, rather than trying to digest the epistles of Paul, teachings meant for those who have been weened on the Gospel of Christ.

The Gospel is all about what we must do, to gain the favor of Father God. The word WORKS, in the Protestant religion, is a oneway to ticket to hell. Spoiler alert!! Jesus was a teacher of WORKS.
---David on 11/18/18


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Steveng: Jesus set the example//

Correct!

So why are some not following His example?
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/17/18


Jesus set the example.
---Steveng on 11/16/18


That's because some Protestants believe that water baptism is a "work."

This might be true of the baptizand baptized himself, but this is not the case.

We RECEIVE baptism at the hands of another.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/15/18


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