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Baptism A Public Testimony

Where do Christians get the idea that water baptism is making a public testimony of your faith?

Nowhere is this said in the Bible.

The historical evidence, including Biblical, is that baptisms were done in semi-privacy, and NO prayers were said in the presence of unbelievers.

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 ---Cluny on 12/16/18
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David, we Christians, unlike you, believe all scripture is God breathed.

Scripture teaches scripture, regardless of who God used to write through.

Really getting tired of your attack on Christian values and principles. And somehow you seem to be focused on attacking me, and stalking me here. Sounds a little perverted now that you think of it.

Christians don't attack other Christians like you seem to be doing David.

Mormonism is NOT Christianity. That's what is bothering you. Sorry, buy I will contend for the TRUE GOSPEL. Deal with it.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/19


Anyone can make any scripture say what they want, however all truth has 2-3 supporting scripture to keep us honest and not take scriptures out of Context.---kathr4453

Kathryn
And this is why you blatantly, continue to misinterpret Paul. The Bible says Two or Three witnesses, not two or three verses. You establish your doctrine by only using Pauls epistles. Here are my witnesses:

(Matthew 18:16) But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(2 Corinthians 13:1) Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.


To be taken seriously, you must do this.
---David on 1/16/19


\\ Why did THE LORD HIMSELF was baptized? \\

You don't think it was to make a public testimony that He was born again, do you?

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/14/19


Cluny: That's your own opinion and not adhering it to my beliefs: Now, discern this: Why did THE LORD HIMSELF was baptized? - did HE - BEING GOD IN HUMAN FORM - needed the baptism? - careful about your own assumptions - FOR THE PERFECT JUDGE is listening!
---Melody on 1/13/19


\\ if the person hasn't obtained the Born Again \\

I have a closet full of those BA things, Melody.

Where did you get the idea that water baptism was any kind of public testimony?

The Bible doesn't say so. (For that matter, nowhere does it say to "accept Christ".)

In early times, there were done in semi-privacy because the candidate was naked, or nearly so.

There are plenty of references to this in early Christian writings.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/13/19




Michael:

And the baptism by immersion (the significance of the soul obtaining salvation through repentance and acceptance of our LORD JESUS CHRIST into the spiritual heart and a testimony before others of that) - it doesn't have any value, if the person hasn't obtained the Born Again
experience - just water baptism won't save anyone as many false religions teach: The thief at the cross was not baptized, but repented and got saved by his belief in our LORD and received the promise of eternal life right there and then by HIM!
---Melody on 1/13/19


Michael_e, great comment. It made me think of 1 Corinthians 10:2...they were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/19


The one true baptism doesn't include water or witnesses. Most think has to be into water. However, water baptism is just one baptism mentioned in the Bible. To understand the true meaning of the doctrine we must understand the general meaning of baptism.
Baptism means immerse, initiate, or induct. The function of baptism is identification with the object of the baptism.
---michael_e on 1/12/19


Michael, I know the verse, and correct, you can't make yourself come to life, The last Adam JESUS , (not the Holy Spirit) REMEMBER THE TRINITY HERE NOW, is that life giving Spirit. 1 Corinthians 15. SO let's stick to scripture.

JUSTIFICATION comes first before anyone is "quickened to life". Our justification is BY FAITH, being justified by His Blood, not by His Spirit, AKA IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS , the Righteousness of Christ SO THAT we can be joined to Christ, and raised up a New Creature IN CHRIST.

Justification is NOT your Born again experience. Our born again experience is being "quickened" together with Christ. AFTER WE ARE JUSTIFIED AND FIRST BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH. ROMANS 6.
---kathr4453 on 1/9/19


Salvation/Born Again is a spiritual process between THE LORD and the sinner and a preparation takes place and
once more - as many other times - THE LORD gave me the joy and blessing to have led other soul unto HIM. I asked him if he had heard about our LORD JESUS CHRIST and he said 'yes' - but then - no one had led him into accept HIM as his LORD AND SAVIOR, I explained the steps - something that he didn't know - he recognized being a sinner and right there and then - he prayed to THE LORD asking forgiveness of his sins and for THE LORD to come into his heart and save him: Why was he ready to receive the message of salvation? - because THE LORD had prepared him through HIS SPIRIT!
---Melody on 1/8/19




Kathr, I do not want to speak for the passage, here is the passage in case you do not have it in your Bible.
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins. Wherein times past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now work in the children of disobedience, Among who also we all had once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others" Eph. 2:1-3.
The lost are dead in their sins. A dead person cannot make himself come to life.
---Michael on 1/8/19


THE LORD HIMSELF said about 'certain kind of beliefs': "Even the demons believe and tremble" - and sad but so true: In this fallen world in which we live, how many say "I believe in THE LORD, I'm Christian" - but what they do? - still under pagan religions and all kinds of wickedness, abominations, trampling upon GOD'S NAME AND HIS PRECEPTS - where they are, under a deceitful 'doctrine' that comes from the depth of hell itself . . . the wicked one that have totally brought upon them a reprobate mind and of which THE LORD speaks as well that at certain time, THE LORD will separate them from HIM - because of their own choosing: The darkness vs THE LIGHT - by their own rebellion! Revelation 21 and 22.
---Melody on 1/8/19


Michael, I disagree. You have taken Ephesians out of context and started in the middle of a verse WRONG APPROACH. Anyone can make any scripture say what they want, however all truth has 2-3 supporting scripture to keep us honest and not take scriptures out of Context. God Justifies the UNGODLY, not the Godly.

The problem with almost all false doctrine is that you all omit JUSTIFICATION, which is NOT your new birth. We are justified by FAITH , and then saved by His Risen Life which is the New Birth. Not vice versa. If you claim you have to be born again FIRST, then you are no longer ungodly.

You have a FREE WILL to believe as you please Michael. Dont let me stop you. I JUST DONT AGREE WITH YOU. MY FREE WILL.
---kathr4453 on 1/8/19


Romans 6: 3 don't you know those who were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

These verses compliment Ephesians 2. Romans 4-5 NEVER once say God forced anyone to be crucified with Christ first without their consent unknowingly in order to believe. Romans 4 is our JUSTIFICATIONS by FAITH FIRST. Romans 5 explains Jesus Death and resurrection and the Gift of Grace, or Gift of Righteousness THROUGH JESUS CHRIST death and resurrection, and Romans 6 show our life AFTER WE BELIEVE, having now been quickened together with Christ.
---kath4453 on 1/8/19


Kathr, you wrote:

Here's where I differ from Calvinist's. I believe the Word of God is SO POWERFUL cutting between soul and spirit, bone and marrow, that even the most depraved person can respond."


He can only respond if God changes his heart. Otherwise he remains depraved. He cannot change his own heart. His is unable because he is dead in sin. "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince and power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience..." Eph. 2: 1,2. The glory goes to God, you need to stop taking credit for your salvation.
---Michael on 1/8/19


David, I tried to give you words of encouragement, but for some reason it was blocked.---Nicole_Lacey

Thank you Nicole
I read what you wrote and It was real sweet of you. God bless you.
---David on 1/8/19


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Many who follow Jesus will one day hear "I NEVER KNEW YOU. DEPART FROM ME." You may want to also REREAD John 6..

Only those who DO the WILL of MY FATHER.

What is the WILL OF GOD? Doesn't one verse say TO BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ....

And doesn't Romans 12:1-2 say to totally surrendering your life to the Lord or you can't even KNOW THE WILL, the PERFECT will of God. WHich then HE WILL DO IN US UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST.

Also many started with us but departed, so says scripture, because they never were saved...and no scripture says they will eventually be saved. Again John 6

Talk about twisting the WORD.
---kathr4453 on 1/8/19


John 6 is a most amazing chapter. On one hand we can see the ALMOST Calvinist's perspective verses David's here in total contrast. Many many multitudes were following Jesus, wanting to make Him KING right then and there. They wanted the good life the earthly kingdom would bring...peace, Jesus ruling and not Rome, etc, etc, Peace Love Dove ...all the Earthly Kingdom has promised we see prophecied in the OT. BUT even though it was promised, IT WASNT the CORRECT TIMING or DOCTRINE Jesus was preaching at that time...because to eat my flesh and drink my blood was NEVER a doctrine belonging to the Earthly Kingdom reign or the law of commandments. And never stated as A NEW COMMANDMENT I GIVE YOU.

So does correct doctrine matter? YES!
---kath4453 on 1/8/19


David, I tried to give you words of encouragement, but for some reason it was blocked.

Hopefully this won't be blocked.


//I decided that if a follower of Jesus Christ is on the wrong path, God is the only one who can put them on the right one. Many are called, few are saved, and its God decision who he saves, not mine.//

AMEN, AMEN!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/7/19


Michael, God saves those who believe that Jesus died for our sin. Romans 10:9-10 or rather read the whole chapter says if you BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD, YOU SHALL BE SAVED.

Here's where I differ from Calvinist's. I believe the Word of God is SO POWERFUL cutting between soul and spirit, bone and marrow, that even the most depraved person can respond.

You however underestimate the POWER OF THE WORD, and say the Holy Spirit has to born again you first so that you can hear. I believe the WORD is every bit as powerful as the Holy Spirit, where whosoever will ....FREE WILL can respond. Responding to the WORD is not a human work....

Is that you MarkV...another moniker now?
---kathr4453 on 1/7/19


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Michael we also see in Acts those who RESISTED THE HOLY SPIRIT. All day long I have reached my hand out to you, but YOU would not.

Also Peter says we are BORN AGAIN by the WORD of God....who Scripture says is Jesus. Jesus is that Life Giving Spirit. Eph 2 says when we are QUICKENED TOGETHER With Him and raised up together with Him, Romans 6 say it's because we first died with Christ. So this strange Calvin doctrine that the HS is doing His own thing apart from The Father and Son is so baffling and no scriptural support.

I can not shed my own blood and die for my sin thereby saving myself. FAITH IS NOT WORKS. SO there is one who's sacrifice was acceptable to God for our sin. ONLY JESUS SAVES.
---kath4453 on 1/7/19


Kathr, you tell David that he sounded like a Calvinist that God doesn't chose us, and if that is the case, How are we saved? You later write that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are lost. How do they get saved? Does that mean that some who are lost are smarter then the others so they can save themselves? You are contradicting yourself. Either God saves us are we never get saved. And if we do get saved, how does that come about if it is not God working in the individual who is lost. Think about what you are saying.
---Michael on 1/7/19


David: If someone is wrong, I no longer believe I can change their mind.//

You are so right.

//In using it, I caused a good Christian man, who loves God,...to doubt his salvation. Did he turn? No, he looked hurt and lost and argumentative. This affected me very deeply.//

I know how you felt. It is an awful feeling. That happen to me many years ago and I am still sadden when I think about it. (I am not saying I haven't done again. I am not aware of it.)

I pray for anyone I have hurt their souls.

//I decided that if a follower of Jesus Christ is on the wrong path, God is the only one who can put them on the right one. Many are called, few are saved, and its God decision who he saves, not mine.//

AMEN AMEN!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/7/19


(John 14:23) 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Kathryn
Do you believe what Jesus says in (John 14:23),....God will love you if you keep his commandments? Can we have Grace, without the love of God? Can we call Jesus, Lord, if we do not keep his commandments?

If you really want to understand (Romans 5),you need to first understand the Lords teaching on how Grace is received, which is Pauls foundation for his Grace teachings.

We are saved by Grace...through faith. We show faith in Jesus Christ by making him Lord, and we can not make him Lord, if we dont keep his commandments.
---David on 1/7/19


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Romans 5:8 in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. NO WHERE DOES ROMANS 5 teach one is reconciled to God by keeping any commandments.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Continue reading...the gift of Grace is the Gift of righteousness....IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS...THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST.

NOT IMPARTED RIGHTEOUSNESS BASED ON SELF EFFORT.
---kathr4453 on 1/6/19


David, have you ever read Romans 5? It doesn't appear you have. Grace is clearly defined in Romans 5 as Jesus death and resurrection, and by His obedience unto death, salvation is possible. Hebrews 2 also back this up.

Ephesians 2 is not another way, but just reiterating Romans 5-8. If you don't understand Romans 4-8, you will never grasp the depth of Ephesians 2. Especially study Ephesians 2:4 before going to Ephesians 2:8. Verse 4 explain verse 8.

This is why Paul said the preaching of the CROSS is foolishness to those who are lost.
David, I really suggest you learn to rightly divide the Word of truth.
---kathr4453 on 1/6/19


First you sound like a Calvinist saying God decides who to save,---kath4453 (Romans 9) 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

then you post above saying one can earn or receive Grace by obeying the commandments.---kath4453
(John 14:21)

WE are saved by Jesus sacrifice on the cross---kath4453 (Ephesians 2) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
---David on 1/6/19


David, you could NEVER shake my faith...NEVER. I am so rooted and grounded and settled Praise God for that, that nothing you say can change that. I know I have eternal life, KNOW that I'm IN CHRIST, and KNOW He is able to keep all I have committed unto Him against that day.

I'm so sorry for those who,don't have assurance and folks like you can cause one to doubt. It's because they are not grounded in the Gospel ...the only Gospel that we are saved by Grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast. And that we live AFTER Jesus death and resurrection, where NOW Christ IN YOU is our Hope of Glory.
---kathr4453 on 1/5/19


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I go back to (John 14:21) the very foundation of our House. (Matthew 7:26) Notice Jesus uses the word commandments, in (John), If you keep my commandments, you love me...and you shall be loved by my Father... This is the True teaching of Grace, and how its received.

---David on 1/4/19

First you sound like a Calvinist saying God decides who to save, then you post above saying one can earn or receive Grace by obeying the commandments. Ephesians 2 show you wrong. Galatians 2:20-21 tell us EXACTLY what GRACE is.....and it's NOT keeping the law. WE are saved by Jesus sacrifice on the cross ...justified by His blood AND SAVED BY HIS LIFE....CHRIST IN YOU His life IN YOU. He doesn't come to live IN YOU by keeping any commandments.
---kath4453 on 1/5/19


Kathryn
Im glad I didnt shake your faith, and realized yesterday I could have. Im not going to argue with anyone about the Salvation message they believe in, anymore.

If someone is wrong, I no longer believe I can change their mind. I used what I learned from you yesterday. In using it, I caused a good Christian man, who loves God,...to doubt his salvation. Did he turn? No, he looked hurt and lost and argumentative. This affected me very deeply.

I decided that if a follower of Jesus Christ is on the wrong path, God is the only one who can put them on the right one. Many are called, few are saved, and its God decision who he saves, not mine.
---David on 1/5/19


David, I'm not upset with you , let's get that delusion out of your head. 2) I believe Romans 10:9-10 exactly as Scripture teaches, that if you believe in your heart God raised Jesus from the dead...YOU WILL BE SAVED. AND THAT WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, and not of yourself re water baptism. I believe in the spiritual baptism Jesus baptized you with. I believe our foundation is Galatians 2:20-21. Righteousness DOES NOT COME BY KEEPING THE LAW. I don't believe in Calvinism either. And I don't believe FAITH is works. Faith comes by hearing the word of God...living and powerful and sharper than a two edge sword.

I don't believe in Church of Christ doctrine David. many don't, but doesn't mean we all agree with each other.
---kathr4453 on 1/4/19


David, I was saved at 9 years old, and water baptized at 30. I'm now 70 and have a most awesome wonderful relationship with the Lord, growing in the Grace and knowledge of HIM and have no reason to smash my foundation of being Crucified with Christ and raised up a New Creature where I came face to face with the Father, ( no one can come to the Father except through the Son) where I now possess the Riches that are IN CHRIST ONLY. This all came through the fellowship of His sufferings, Philippians 3.

So keep on and I will use YOU to preach the true Gospel of our salvation.

All this began in my life when I OBEYED Romans 6-8 and Romans 12:1-2
---kath4453 on 1/4/19


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Don't thank me for something I never said or said I believe. Not sure why you are obsessed with me, trying to make your point by twsting my beliefs.---kathr4453

Kathryn
You honestly helped me to understand, why most Protestants believe they are saved. For me, Its like being a doctor who seeks the cause of cancer, for he knows he can not cure it, until he knows what causes it. You showed me what causes many millions to have a false belief in Salvation, the very foundation of their house.(Matthew 7:26)

I did not twist your words, my words merely corner you, so you could see the Truth. (Hebrews 4:12) will explain why your so upset with me. I have simply shaken the foundation of your house, so now you must rebuild it. I can help!!
---David on 1/4/19


Sadly true kathr We teach something close. We teach if a person knows they should be baptized by water but refused to do so because they don't feel like it. Then they are not surrendering to Jesus.

But on the other hand a man facing death can give his life to Jesus and then die. He will still go to heaven. Remember Jesus was public ally baptized by immersion for us.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/3/19


Samuel, like you I was water baptized years after I was saved. So it looks like David is confused. I also find his last post condescending and sarcastic as usual, making no sense whatsoever.

David, Don't thank me for something I never said or said I believe. Not sure why you are obsessed with me, trying to make your point by twsting my beliefs. I find it strange. And evil.
---kathr4453 on 1/3/19


Actually Samuel Many believe that if you are not water baptized you are going to hell. Being baptized into Jesus death is something we don't do, but God does, the moment we believe and receive Jesus. We are justified by His blood and SAVED BY HIS LIFE....HIS RISEN LIFE, we see explained in 1 Corinthiand 15, that the last man Adam AKA JESUS CHRIST , IS THAT LIFE GIVING SPIRIT. It's His LIFE "in us" that gives us life out of death. Water cannot do that. This Baptism is the one JESUS GIVES. Just as Paul asked....have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed, NOT...."since you were water baptized". They did go through John the Baptist's REPENTANCE water baptism and knew nothing of the Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 1/3/19


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I accepted Jesus in my room while away at college. I was saved then.

I was baptized much later when I could come home.

Many confuse the two. But no big deal. As long as you love GOD and love others you are showing you are a follower of Jesus.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/3/19


David, no anger, and I have no idea what you are talking g about. You continue to misrepresent me and my beliefs. I SAID I BELIEVE the order in which Cornelius was saved. He received the Holy Spirit before he was water baptized.

I SAID I was not protestant also. Why do you keep lying here..or is it you can't read? Or are you goading again just to get a response? Or all the above? Shows yours dishonesty. Not impressed.
---kathr4453 on 1/3/19


AFTER WE BELIEVE, WE ARE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE....AKA BEING SAVED.
---kathr4453


Kathryn
Without me even realizing it, you have taught me something I have always wondered. Why so many Protestants have a testimony which says they were saved the day they were baptized. They believe, like you, that happens when you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I have sought after this answer for almost 20 years, and you dear Kathryn, have given it to me. I sincerely thank you for that. Have a nice day...but please Kathryn, think about how (Acts 2:38) doesnt fit into your no works doctrine. I know finding this answer has caused you anger...but please continue to seek for it.
---David on 1/3/19


David, Let me reword, based on the context that was previously stated, that I already gave scripture of what I believe based on scripture. If your doctrine contradicts scripture I SIMPLY DO NOT BELIEVE IT, and do not wish to be goaded by you in some silly remark that you must be right because I have chosen to discontinue the conversation. Your bullying and goading IS WHAT IS NARCISSISTIC . Now do you understand? There is nothing to argue with you about..the WORD of God is the final authority. AFTER WE BELIEVE WE ARE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE....AKA BEING SAVED. No UNsaved person is joined with the Holy Spirit, the earnest deposit of our inheritance with Christ, or Joined together with Christ.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/19


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If I don't believe it, then it can't be right. Only your narcissis ego would think otherwise.
---kathr4453 on 1/1/19

Is the Underlined.....example of narcissism?
---David on 1/2/19


No David, I see you, like David8316 are a cult, and simply do not wish to continue debating with you in obedience to the Lord. After 2-3 admonitions, REJECT. And foolish and unlearned questions we are to avoid, because it brings strife.. This is why David. There is no reason to continue to discuss. I do not believe your doctrine under any circumstances. If I don't believe it, then it can't be right. Only your narcissis ego would think otherwise.
---kathr4453 on 1/1/19


\\Cluny yes or no was Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection public?

---john9346 on 12/26/18\\

Why did you ask this question and then accuse me of changing the subject when I answered it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/1/19


Your arguments are foolishness. Now watch me kick the dust off my Sandles and walk away. BYE David.
---kathr4453


You saw that I am right, and that is why you do not answer the question. And Thats the reason you foolishly walk away.
---David on 1/1/19


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David, I'm not Church of Christ. Your doctrine fits Church of Christ to a T. Also a CULT.

Take your argument to God David....I"m done here with you as well. I'm grounded and settled in the Lord, and have been for over 40 years. Nothing your nonsense says will make a difference.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who FIRST BELIEVE. BELIEVING is not saving yourself. Jesus Saves, by His dying for our sin and being raised from the dead. I cannot shed my own blood and die for my sin AKA "saving myself" . Any other argument is nonsense on your part. All your arguments are nonsense.

Your arguments are foolishness. Now watch me kick the dust off my Sandles and walk away. BYE David.
---kathr4453 on 1/1/19


The Holy Spirit is given to ALL WHO BELIEVE, AND THAT IS THE SIGN OF SALVATION TODAY. ---kathr4453

Lets be clear. When we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit, you believe, we are saved. Now If this is true, and we can not save ourselves by what we do, do you realize we can not possibly receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, in the manner Peter taught in (Acts 2:38)?

Does your church not recognize this fact, or does your church disagree with Peter on this point?
---David on 12/31/18


David, these promises are still in effect today regardless of whether Paul or Peter are alive or dead.
These promises go all the way back to Abraham. It was not some signs and wonders thingy like raising the dead. The Holy Spirit is given to ALL WHO BELIEVE, AND THAT IS THE SIGN OF SALVATION TODAY.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


I stand by the WORD OF GOD.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/18


cluny said, "john, NONE of the verses you gave say a THING about how many people were present at the Savior's burial and the Resurrection event itself."

The dialog is about whether baptism is public or private not how many were their.

Next, in the verses cited to you it shows that baptism is a Public Act of Obedience.

If you de this I challenge you show us from the verses provided to you and others verses that baptism is a Private Act??? we're all waiting???

Remember, the Holy Spirit wrote the gospels and the epistles...
---john9346 on 12/28/18


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Repentance unto life IS SALVATION.
The Gift of the Holy Spirit also to Gentiles is again confirmed in Galatians and Ephesians. It was not a one time miracle as David wants you to believe.--kathr4453


There you go again! Its amazing how you continue to distort what has been said. I never said it was a one time thing...did I? Werent Paul and the disciples still alive in Galatians and Ephesians?
---David on 12/28/18


john, NONE of the verses you gave say a THING about how many people were present at the Savior's burial and the Resurrection event itself.

My information comes from the Gospels.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/28/18


cluny said, "Actually, NO, john.
Few people attended the Savior's burial.
NOBODY except mabye an angel or two were presesnt at His Resurrection."

But Paul directed of the Holy Spirit contrdicts you for he says otherwise in rom 6:1-6
Also, 1 Cor 15:3-8.

Acts 10:34-48

Acts 2

---john9346 on 12/27/18


Acts11:14 -18 ...... shall be saved. And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Repentance unto life IS SALVATION.
The Gift of the Holy Spirit also to Gentiles is again confirmed in Galatians and Ephesians. It was not a one time miracle as David wants you to believe.
---kathr4453 on 12/27/18


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Actually, NO, john.

Few people attended the Savior's burial.

NOBODY except mabye an angel or two were presesnt at His Resurrection.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/26/18


cluny ask, "John9346, the verse you quoted means baptism is a public testimony just how?
Please explain."

Cluny yes or no was Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection public?

---john9346 on 12/26/18


David. The Holy Spirit is indeed given to those who accepted Jesus. It brings us to be Born Again. For we are Born Again by the Holy Spirit.

So I am not sure on the nuances here. Sometimes people say something slightly different When there is no real or important difference. So I hope all had a Merry Christmas. Also have a blessed New Year.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/26/18


So you are saying doing things for a person you love is work instead of a joy and pleasure?---Samuelbb7

Samuel
Good Works are mentioned throughout the Bible. Why did they call them Works?

For me, a good work is doing what the Lord commands me to do, through his Holy Spirit. And when I do it, it pleases God. Thats what makes it a Good Work. When someone repents and is Baptized, as in (Acts 2:38), this must obviously please God, else we wouldnt recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit when we do it.

But I do not believe, salvation is equated to receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit, as Kathryn stated. For if this was the case, according to (Acts 2:38), we could save ourselves by our Works.
---David on 12/26/18


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David When I was a teenager my Mother would tell me to do something and I did it. When as an Adult my mother would call me to come help her I did it.

So you are saying doing things for a person you love is work instead of a joy and pleasure?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/25/18


I believe if one read the whole account of Cornelius, one would see the promise of the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles just as it was given to the Jews...is the main theme here.....not some out of the ordinary raising one from the dead issue. That Gentiles received the gift of salvation evidenced by the Holy Spirit was the issue.

We are saved BY GRACE AKA the CROSS through faith ....

We are justified by His blood and saved by His Life. HIS resurrection life....CHRIST IN YOU, the Hope of Glory. Christ comes to live IN US when we are baptized into His death and raised up together with Him a New Creature. This baptism is not with Water....however it is with the Water of the WORD..... BORN AGAIN BY THE WORD OF GOD.
---kathr4453 on 12/25/18


In the scripture of Cornelius, the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius and family before anyone was baptized.--kathr4453

True, but it was at the hands of Peter, one of the Lords disciples.
Is it not also true, the Lords disciples did many things we dont see in the church today, like bringing people back to life?

The gift of the Holy Spirit is the gift of salvation...--kathr4453

The gift of the Holy Spirit is promised, to those who repent and are baptized, according to Peter in (Acts 2:38). If what you say is true, you must also believe we can save ourselves when we Repent and are Baptized. If you believe what Peter taught in (Acts 2:38).

Clearly a teaching of Works...which Paul taught against.
---David on 12/25/18


john9346, the verse you quoted means baptism is a public testimony just how?

Please explain.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/24/18


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cluny ask, "Where do Christians get the idea that water baptism is making a public testimony of your faith?"
The Holy Spirit listen to him:

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
---john9346 on 12/24/18


In the scripture of Cornelius, the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius and family before anyone was baptized. So no one was working for salvation or even working for the gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the gift of salvation and our sealing by the Holy Spirit after we believe, not after we are water baptized. Ephesians 1:11-14 never once mention water baptism.

Just to be clear, the gift of the Holy Spirit is promised with the New Covenant. The New Covenant is not based on a works relationship like the Law was. I believe 2 Corinthians 3 make this clear.
---kathr4453 on 12/24/18


Cluny
The teaching came about to deflect the teaching of (Acts 2:38), which was needed to preserve the No Works doctrines. In the teaching, it clearly states we must do something to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. A needed gift, through which we are saved.

If we must do something to receive this gift, Repent and be Baptized, it clearly undermines the No Works doctrines. So...they must undermine the teachings in the Bible by creating their own.
---David on 12/23/18


Let's get back to the original subject of this blog, please.

Namely: where did the idea of water baptism being a public profession of faith come from, as the Bible nowhere says it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/20/18


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\\
When you are baptized you are buried with Christ and risen again to a new life. It is a testimony to having accepted Jesus. \\

Where does the Bible say that Christian baptism is a "testimony to having accepted Jesus," especially since the phrase "accept Jesus appears nowhere in the Bible?

Baptisms were done in semi-privacy because following the precedent of the Jewish rite of Mikheh, the baptizands were naked.

And before Constantine, NO prayers were ever said and NO sacraments were celebrated before non-Christians.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/19/18


StevenG said, "Repent and be baptized. Infants do not have any concept of repenting, ..."

Steven, you are not in the position to tell anyone how to baptize or be baptized. That is something that the Worldly Denominational "Church" of StevenG will never understand or properly teach, because you have no spiritual "covering." As such, anything you can come up with is seriously flawed.
---Monk_Brendan on 12/19/18


Cluny, where in those five steps does it mention that one must understand?
---Steveng on 12/19/18


Samuel: It is a testimony to having accepted Jesus.

Why hide it?//

I don't think one is trying to hide it, but that it seems people think others have to witness the baptism in order for it to be valid.

Like marriage.

BTW, do you accept the baby's baptism when the testimony is given on half of the parents?
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/19/18


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When you are baptized you are buried with Christ and risen again to a new life. It is a testimony to having accepted Jesus.

Why hide it?
---Samuelbb7 on 12/18/18


\\The way to salvation is to hear the word of God, believe it in your heart, repent, confess your sins, and be baptized\\

To say we must somehow "understand" to be saved, as you are saying here, is gnosticism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/18/18


As Jesus didn't know anything about the need to be circumcised. Luke 2:21

When we are baptized we are consecrated to the Lord.

How is that any different when they took Jesus to the Temple WITHOUT His permission or understanding of the situation?

V22-23 When the days were completed for their purification* according to the law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord, just as it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that opens the womb shall be consecrated to the Lord,


---Nicole_Lacey on 12/17/18


Repent and be baptized.

Infants do not have any concept of repenting, of God, of Jesus, of sinning, of anything worldly or spiritually. The way to salvation is to hear the word of God, believe it in your heart, repent, confess your sins, and be baptized - all of which an infant has no knowledge or concept.
---Steveng on 12/17/18


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The Eunuch in Acts was done in private.

Phillip baptize him with only the driver present, but he didn't know what was going on.

Acts 8:26-40
---Nicole_Lacey on 12/17/18


It is clear that Christian baptism was done in at least semi-privacy from Acts 2 on. The Mikvaut of the Temple were obviously the place where the first 3000 Christian baptism were done, and these ritual baths for Temple worshippers were private, as you can find out for yourself.

Read such sources as the Didache and the Catechetical lectures of St. Cyril of Jerusalem.

BTW, the Didache mentions infant baptism.

While we're on the subject, NO sacraments were ever celebrated in the presence of non-Christians, as historical accounts show.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/17/18


"The historical evidence, including Biblical, is that baptisms were done in semi-privacy" Please state your historical evidence and the source of that "evidence". The only biblical evidence of water baptism is in an open water source, the river Jordan for example. There was nothing private about it. NO prayers were said in the presence of unbelievers. Scripture states "arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Calling on the name of the Lord, is prayer. I personally believe the only baptism that truly matters, is the baptism of repentance. That baptism is accomplished through the washing of water by the word. Eph 5:26
---Josef on 12/17/18


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