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Why Confess Your Sins

Why do people confess their sins, if they are not under the Law, when a sin, is the transgression of the Law?

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 ---David on 12/31/18
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THOSE SAVED BY GRACE are UNDER GRACE And being UNDER GRACE does not mean lawlessness or a license to sin. There is not one verse in scripture stating we are UNDER the Law of Christ. Those UNDER GRACE live by union with Christ the Perfect law of Liberty.

The Law of Christ is to carry one another's burdens and so FULFILL the law of Christ. No Law of Christ says..."now you are UNDER the Law of Christ YOU MUST do this or that, and when you do, you will be sinless." Again just another bit of nonsense David made up.

Those UNDER GRACE have died to sin. We now live by the faith of Christ, walking in the Spirit ..the ONLY law of the Spirit of the life of Christ available only to those UNDER GRACE.
---kath4453 on 1/19/19

David, you simply fail to read all of what I posted AND ASKED OF YOU.

Romans 6 take care of your law of Righteousness, as those who are crucified with Christ, and raised up a NEW Creature ARE automatically vs 18 says you BECAME a slave of Righteousness. There is NO LAW HERE.

You keep interchanging the meaning of LAW here. The Law of Christ, stated in Galatians 6:2 say nothing about being UNDER. So again you like many false teachers embellish the truth by ADDING to it.

We are UNDER "GRACE" PERIOD. If you know what that is, you would not be on this attack.

You never gave a list of what you claim the Law of Christ consists of. So again, YOU failed to make your case.
---kathr4453 on 1/19/19

David what makes you think I do not obey the law of Christ?-kathr4453

Because this is what you told us on 1/13/19.

Because I died to sin David, I do not have to keep any laws.--kathr4453

As a Christian, you are under One of Two Laws. Either you are under the Law of sin and death, or you are under the Law of Righteousness. You are either a slave of sin, or a slave of righteousness. (Romans 6:16)

How do we know which Law we are under? To know, you must not only listen, but be able to hear the words of Jesus Christ.
(John 8:34) Everyone who sins is a slave of sin.

If you are a slave of sin, you are not under the Law of righteousness, least not yet.
---David on 1/19/19

Nicole, no, the law was a YOKE AND BURDEN to those in Israel. We are FREE IN CHRIST without the law.

Nicole, only IF there was a law FORCING everyone to get a license regardless of whether they hunted fished or drove would be a law EVERYONE would be under. We don't live in Russia or N Korea..remember. Many have the FREEDON TO CHOOSE. Now with the LAW in Israel, EVERYONE was under the LAW. There was no such thing as not participating. And the LAW brought DEATH...not FREEDOM.

So again I really don't know what you and David are trying to get across here. It just doesn't make sense to me what you are saying. ONLY "IN CHRIST" Is one FREE.
---kathr4453 on 1/19/19

And once you do CHOOSE to get a license in hunting fishing and driving, even getting a pilot license, you are under MORE LAWS than just a single law of saying IF you want to participate in these areas, you MUST take tests to even QUALIFY to get a license. Israel never had such options, and as a Christian, we don't have to take tests either to get a license to be a Christian to then be under the Law to be free. It simply is nonsense that does not apply to Israel under the Law or Christians Inlawed to Christ.
---kath4453 on 1/19/19

Cluny, I'll do whatever it takes to get you to read my posts. I do it solely to get under your skin though. I also see you help break up the silliness some here post. I think I'll implement this tactic more often when I get snagged by some here in rediculous conversations having nothing to do with scripture. I'll just post some misspelled words, and WALLA....Cluny comes to the rescue changing the subject.. BRILLIANT.

Have a Nice Day Cluny.
---kat453 on 1/19/19

Kathr: My mother never learned to drive, and at 92 never will.//

God bless her and you for the many years granted to her.

Does she write down stories of her past?

I regretted didn't for my father died

//There is no law about driving she is under, except if she now wants to drive she'll have to get a license.//

That's the law.

The law will only punish those without licenses.

They are not free to drive.

Understand the Jewish people. They LOVED the Law because they were FREE in the Law.

Do you understand?

GK Chesterton explained better. School house at the cliff edge prevents children from playing in the yard.

But once a wall is in place. Children are FREE to play.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/18/19

kathr, the word you're looking for is BIZARRE, not bazaar (some of which sell bizarre items).

And you're NOT on the level of Einstein in any way, so quit comparing yourself with him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/19

Nicole, I simply do not understand or follow your statement. My mother never learned to drive, and at 92 never will. There is no law about driving she is under, except if she now wants to drive she'll have to get a license.

So does that mean, if I want to start sinning I'll have to get a license to sin? And then once I get my license to sin, I'm no longer under the law? Correct?

There is no LICENSING LAWS in scripture stop trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole just to impress David. The analogy was BAZAAR and is not applicable no matter how hard you try unless you're snorting crack or dropping acid. Then you are free to believe anything you want...even believing you can land on the next comet fly by.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/19

Kathr: you are under that law if you DON'T have a fish/hunting license FREE WILL also sends people to one to hell.

//and don't fish or hunt, so I too am not UNDER these laws...or even THAT LAW.//

Actually you are under the Law.

That's like someone without a driver license claims since he doesn't have a car he isn't under the law.

Now if you did have a license and CHOOSE not to drive you are not under the law. The law doesn't apply to you. You can drive if you wish, have a car or NOT drive.


Unless you are married you are free to have as many relations with your spouse as you wish.

Jesus' Law of no relations OUTSIDE marriage only applies to us, but not David (if he is married)
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/18/19

I obey the Gospel according to the mystery...Romans 16:25-27. Which is the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST JESUS has set me free from the law of sin and death. There is therefore no condemnation to those IN CHRIST who walk after the spirit and not the flesh.

Davids threat in Thesselonians are to all those like himself who have not OBEYED Romans 6-8,Which is the Gospel according to the Mystery of CHRIST IN YOU Colossians 1:24-27. We live under the Law of CHRIST IN YOU showing Galatians 2:20-21 as much the Law of Christ as Romans 8:2

Also Galatians 6:2 is about LOVE and fulfilling the Law of Christ, LOVE being the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22-25

The only CRACK here is in your head David.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/19

David is not obeying the Gospel according to the Mystery. If that is an issue with David, then so be it. We know according to Paul those who came into Galatia brought ANOTHER GOSPEL...YES and that is the one David is promoting, making all sorts of claims as to what the Law of Christ according to his immature understanding of scripture. He continually attacke because he is the one struggling, and wont have rest until he feels he can convert you to his way of thinking. WHY OH WHY after walking with the Lord for over 40 years wouod I thumb my nose in Gods face and follow David, who u do not know, do not agree with, and never will.

Just get over it David. Badgering with your insuts doesnt make you only makes you obnoxious.
---kath4453 on 1/18/19

David what makes you think I do not obey the law of Christ? I'm Getting tired of your false accusations. To be clear, and be very specific here please LIST FROM SCRIPTURE exactly what these or this law is.

Maybe we just have a different understanding of the Law of Christ.

ALSO with your specific list, please reference scripture, and then PROVE where I clearly say I do not obey this Law. I don't want scripture YOU THINK is the Law of Christ
I want an actual list like the 663 commandments and statutes.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/19

No Kathryn,
I am not a Mormon, I am not schizophrenic, nor any of the things you have accused me of being. Your name calling simply shows me, I have put a crack in your armor. As for Nicole, she is a kindred spirit.

(2 Thessalonians 1:6-9) For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you, and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished.....

Notice this warning is not for those who dont follow Paul, its for those who dont obey the Law of Christ. The Law you have rejected.
---David on 1/18/19

The idea of legalizing GRACE is just as wrong as saying its freedom to sin. Peter, John, James or Paul etc never teach GRACE is put back under the law, or is lawlessness. Those who promote either misconception simply have never been saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. They have never experienced Romans 6-8 SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN...GOD FORBID.... Or Peters 1 Peter 4.. Supported by Philippians 3 which is what James 1 is about. The testing and trials OF YOUR FAITH, which incorporates SUFFERING, for the purpose of becoming perfect and entire lacking nothing.. Again supported by Hebrews 5:8-9 just to name a few places. This is the GRACE we also continue to live under while we are growing into the fullness and stature of Christ..Ephesians 4.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/19

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

What David fails to see is this describes how The Mormons use to have a statue of Cain offering wheat at the entrance of their Salt Lake City Temple, until David Hunt pointed out in a book God rejected Cain's offering. And it was removed, I guess out of embarrassment. Balaam's sin was being hired to Curse Gods Chosen People. Bad move.

It's a shame how his false church has filled him with so much hate towards those saved by GRACE..which is the CROSS. Any other teaching on grace is perverting the GRACE of God. Again, as Jude states. Clouds without water.
---kath453 on 1/17/19

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They remind me of Saul, before he became Paul. And look what God had to do to change his mind!
---David on 1/17/19

Actually David You can read about what Saul/ Paul said about himself before he became Paul in Philippians 3. One of my most favorite chapters totally debunking everything you teach and stand for. I believe and understand Philippians 3 quite well, as only hose CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, and have entered the fellowship of His sufferings would understand...EVERYTHING YOU ARE ARGUING AGAINST.

SAUL considered himself BLAMELESS under the Law as did all Pharisees, who did not believe Jesus was the Son of God. WE DO BELIEVE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. SO Those UNDER GRACE are as far from a Pharisee as one can get.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/19

Paul was not LAWLESS or turned the LAW into immorality as David's nonsense wants you to think.

So your comment about Saul Paul is about as strange and deranged as it comes.

Those saved by Grace are not murdering CHRISTIANS as Saul was doing under the LAW, because under the law it was worthy of death to worship any other that God. And the Pharisees simply rejected the TRUTH that Jesus Christ was the Promised Messiah Son of God.

So your last statement is just more schizophrenia in the making.

You say may misunderstand Pauls teaching. NO YOU DO. You don't even understand Pauls conversion. What a hoot! You are here to attack Christians David. I've got your number.
---kath4453 on 1/17/19

David, it's not the first time I wondered if you and Nicole are the same person. And please get out of your head I'm offended by your and Nicole's nonsense cognitive thinking.

I'm actually humored by it. Particularly showing all who get a fishing and hunting license are not under THESE LAWS. I don't have either of these, nor will I ever be getting one...FREE WILL HERE, and don't fish or hunt, so I too am not UNDER these laws...or even THAT LAW. A Law that says ONLY if you want to hunt and fish you must get a license. Does that mean now that I'm no longer under THESE LAWS, I can kill anything I want? Sounds like YOU are the one promoting LAWLESSNESS HERE.

Again David, I am not Mormon, and never will be.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/19

I'd also like to know how getting a license is comparative to what...Salvation? So if I get a license...aka getting saved, I am no longer under the law. I agree.

The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ UNTIL FAITH CAME. There fore now that faith has come we are no longer under the schoolmaster.aka the Law. So Faith is compared to getting a license, and once you get that license, you are not under the schoolmaster..aka the Law.

Ok, so why say one thing, and then totally argue against in in the next breath? that's what is schizophrenia in the making.
---kath4453 on 1/17/19

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Now I am not applying this to David and Kathr's discussion. Because I just started reading these blogs. I just understand his last statement.---Nicole_Lacey

I am glad you understood my comparative, and thanks for confirming it. I believe Kathryn understood it too, but Sometimes the Truth hurts. To hurt is not my objective though, for I admire folks like Kathryn and their devotion to what they see as the Truth.

They remind me of Saul, before he became Paul. And look what God had to do to change his mind!
---David on 1/17/19

OK, So those saved by the Grace of God can be compared to those over 21 in the comparison and are not under the Law ACCORDING TO DAVID/NICOLE. Actually those under or over 21 who have no desire to drink are not affected by any laws concerning alcohol. Those over 21 who drink are still under the law not drink and drive.

Even those with a fishing and hunting license have to obey laws under the fishing and hunting rules. Like you can only catch so many fish, OR, it's ok to hunt but only between this month or that month. And maybe only certain kinds of animals apply.

But again, only those who have no desire to drink, or hunt what ever age they are, are not under the laws, because they won't be participating.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/19

David says These laws as in plural, Nicole says THAT LAW, as in singular...the law of having to get a license ONLY. However, every license owner, whether drivers, hunter, fisher, fire arms, HAVE LAWS under those licenses they must obey. Insurance, following the rules of the road, no drinking or driving, etc etc, carry MORE LAWS for those who are licensed.

If you have no desire to get a license in these areas, ( which many of these licenses require ALSO REQUIRE tests to pass in the first place) then and only then are you not under these laws.

So if you want to live IN THE FLESH, yes, you need to be under the LAW that regulates the flesh. But those who live and walk in the Spirit, are under the Perfect LAW OF LIBERTY.
---kath4453 on 1/17/19

David: Its against our laws to hunt and fish, but...if you have a license, you are not under these Laws.//

I understand this statement completely.

The Game Warden will ONLY arrest people WITHOUT licenses.

It's isn't any different if someone drives a car without a driver's license.

The law states that anyone without a driver's license can not operate a car.

But if you have a driver's license you are NOT under that Law.

People under 21 can not drink Alcohol.

People over 21 are not under that law.

Now I am not applying this to David and Kathr's discussion. Because I just started reading these blogs.

I just understand his last statement.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/16/19

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Its against our laws to hunt and fish, but...if you have a license, you are not under these Laws.
---David on 1/16/19

It's schizophrenic statements like this that I find so bazaar. The law is the law whether you have a license to hunt or fish or not. So what law gives anyone permission to sin at any time anywhere? NONE.

BUT if I am no longer part of this word system, my desire to hunt and fish are no longer a desire, so I don't need some law that says DO NOT HUNT OR FISH.

This is what David has NEVER EXPERIENCED. If he had, he would KNOW what happens to our desire to sin when we DIED to sin.
---kathr4453 on 1/16/19


I'm David admitting he is NOT Christs? It would appear so. Our SPIRIT is not no Law, but the Law of Christ applies.. The Law of Christ is SO MUCH MORE than anything David could possibly imagine, because only those CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST have such access.

David, your silly silly comebacks are on so selfrighteous, and ignorant. You know NOTHING of the Grace of GOD. Jude is all about your false doctrine Silly!
---kathr4453 on 1/16/19

How dare you.You just crossed the line. good-day.---kathr4453

Many folks, when shown biblical truth, are offended when the lights are turned on. Lets look at the logic in Jude by using a comparative, to see if you believe....Grace gives you a license to sin.

Its against our laws to hunt and fish, but...if you have a license, you are not under these Laws. Its against Gods Law to steal, lie, commit adultery or murder, but because of Grace, you say you are not under Gods Law.

You can clearly see in this comparative, using (Jude 1:4) NIV.
Jude is the one you should be angry with, not me.
---David on 1/16/19

Philippians 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
---kathr4453 on 1/15/19

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Most people, as you do, take Pauls teachings of the Law out of context. Go through every verse you gave me, and you will discover they all refer to the Law of Moses, not the Law of Christ.

Paul used Abraham as his example, not because he was not under the Laws of God, as many love to teach, but because the Law he was under, is much like the Law of Christ. Why did God bless Abraham?

(Genesis 26:4-5) And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries, and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
---David on 1/15/19

If you dont have to keep any laws, you must have a license for immortality.
(Jude 1:4)
---David on 1/14/19

How dare you. David, you have failed to read and digest any of Pauls teaching, even Peter. 1 Peter 4:1-2..those who have suffered in the flesh HAVE CEASED FROM SIN.
Romans 6 Shall we continue to sin that Grace may abound..,GOD FORBID.

Scripture WARNS us there are those ...saying " NOT ALL MEN HAVE FAITH" 2 Thesselonians 3:2. These are the ones God says are WICKED MEN...the ones Jude 1:4 ...actually all,of Jude, also describe....AKA Clouds without water etc SO Get your FACTS correct David before bringing a charge against any of Gods Children.

You just crossed the line. good-day.
---kathr4453 on 1/15/19

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone, 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

So many like unbelieving Israel have stumbled at the stumbling stone. Grace is the opposite of the Law. Faith is the opposite of the law....they cannot co-exist in your life.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/19

Acts 13:39 ?... from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified ....

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,.......for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/19

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There are actually more verses that we are NOT justified by the Law, but ran out of space.

Romans 2:13 verses 7-9 PLUS verses that say the opposite. When this happens what should we do? Take the one verse and throw the other away? NO NO NO. God does not contradict Himself, but WE contradict God when we fail to read the content and not verses out of context, by cherry picking. No doctrine is based on ONE VERSE.

Paul teaches OVER AND OVER we are justified BY FAITH in His blood. ROMANS 5:9.

No one can work to justify themselves. Only Mormons and LEGALISTS teach this false doctrine.
---kath4453 on 1/14/19

David, In Romans 2
Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to keep a perfect standard, yet the presumably thought they could. Actually, they were hypocrites. This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter, in Romans 3:28, that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the Law - which includes the Law of loving God (Deut. 6:5), and loving your neighbor (Lev. 19:18). No one is able to keep the Law. If you fail even once, then you become guilty of it all.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/19

I do not have to keep any laws.---kathr4453

You follow Paul, so this is what he would say to you.
(Romans 2:13) For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in Gods sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. How will you be declared righteousness, without obeying the Law? You see your fight is not with me...its with Paul.

If you dont have to keep any laws, you must have a license for immortality.
(Jude 1:4) For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
---David on 1/14/19

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

We see this is backed up in Galatians 5:22-25. The FRUIT of the Spirit.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. Again supported in Romans 6 how we become dead to the law and dead to sin. Sin never dies...we die to sin.

And Galatians2: 20-21 tell us exactly how one is dead to the law AND HOW THEY MAY LIVE UNTO GOD.

All truth has supporting scripture.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/19

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Also John 8:34 is true. Every one before Jesus death and resurrection was in fact a slave to sin. Sacrificed were offered daily for sin. The Law had no power to deliver from sin. But now through Jesus death and resurrection the power of sin is broken. And our identification with Jesus in death 1 Peter 4, and our resurrected life IN CHRIST had delivered us from the power of sin.

Our sins are forgiven. Little children KNOW their sins are forgiven. 1 John. Now we need to GROW UP INTO HIM.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/19

Do you sin David? Are you claiming to be sinless? So why do you keep insisting I sin? I DIED to sin, when I died with Christ. PAULS GOSPEL according to Jesus Christ. So exactly what is your problem or issue here?

Because I died to sin David, I do not have to keep any laws. Only the Law of Christ, which is Christ IN ME...found in Hebrews 13:20-21 and Romans 8:11-13. Also Galatians 5:22-25, because Galatains 5:24 and Galatians 2:20-21 and Philippians 3:9-11 are REAL in my life Praise God THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

So again, what is your ISSUE HERE? That only You claim to be sinless, but not according to Romans 6?

---kathr4453 on 1/13/19

Yes Pauls epistles are founded in the Gospel,of Jesus Christ.

I'm very suspicious of those who claim to be born of God, but by some other way than being crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him, aka Quickened together with Christ, aka being Born again. The Last Adam is that life giving spirit. But your old Adam is not being rebirthed. Your old Adam is being CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. We DEID to sin when and only when we died with Christ. Pauls epistles are STEEPED with this truth.

David has balked over and over on this truth. With that, I find he may be preaching ANOTHER GOSPEL, cherry picking verses out of context to support his incomplete understanding of the Gospel of Grace.
---kath4453 on 1/13/19

It appears I may be reading this differently than you are David.

Thats because Pauls epistles are founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and you do not teach Pauls epistles on this foundation. Try reading (Romans 6:16-18) founded on (John 8:34).

(John 8:34) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, Everyone who sins is a slave of sin

If you sin, according to Jesus Christ in (John 8:34), are you a slave of sin?
---David on 1/13/19

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Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Is this the law of righteousness you are referring to David. IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS which is through the faith of Christ? Or the righteous living that is described in Galatians 2:20-21? But that's never called the Law of Righteousness. The Just shall live BY FAITH. Christ who IS OUR LIFE, we live by the faith of Christ who is our life...CHRIST IN YOU...a new and living way.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/19

David, I'm going to attempt to answer your question above. Job, Abraham, Abel etc lived before the LAW, yet we see they all offered sacrifice to God FOR SIN. Sin was in fact in the world from Adams SIN. Job sacrificed for the sins of his sons. So they did know what sin was before the law. The promise of the Messiah to save from sin was first announced in Genesis 3:15. Job said, I KNOW THAT MY REDEEMER LIVETH.

We even have Noah preaching for 125 years before the flood, before the Law. Are you saying man was ignorant of sin then? Not according to Romans 1-2.
---kath4453 on 1/13/19


If you have accepted THE LORD as your Own Personal SAVIOR, then - right you are: "The old things have passed away, behold I make all things new"- says THE LORD" . . . so through The Born Again Experience - we have become a new Creature - and then as THE LORD said . . . when this most sublime transformation has occurred - and through HIM in us - we can fulfill what HE admonishes us in Revelation 22:14: "Blessed are they that do HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they might have right to The Tree of Life, and may enter into the gates into The City" . . only those who are HIS OWN can fulfill this and under GOD'S SPIRIT POWER indwelling within!
---Melody on 1/12/19

(Romans 6:18-18) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness. But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye BECAME the servants of righteousness.

Im not aware of any LAW of Righteousness, however I am aware of the MYSTERY of Godliness. I believe the aim is Godliness. 2 Peter 1 is a great chapter concerning this. again it is attained BY FAITH in His Promises.

It appears I may be reading this differently than you are David.
---kathr4453 on 1/12/19

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David, is 1John 3:9-10 different than Romans 6-8 in your mind?

How exactly were you born of God?
---kathr4453 on 1/12/19

Just answer this....if you no longer sin, why are you keeping the law?---kath4453

After you are born again, in the manner prescribed in (1 John 3:9-10), you come under the Laws of righteousness. This is the Law I serve under.

(Romans 6:18-18) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness. But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Obedience leads to righteousness...yes or no?
---David on 1/12/19

(Romans 2:12) For as many as have sinned without law, shall also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law.

This corresponded with Romans 5, that between Adam and Moses there was no law, so sin was not imputed...HOWEVER DEATH WAS.

What David fails to see is from Adam and Eve on THEY LIVED BY FAITH, just as we also live by faith. Hebrews 11 make this quite clear.

And all those we see Paul refering to in Romans 1-2 were before the flood, had NO EXCUSE whether there was a LAW or not. They had a CONSCIENCE where everyone was subjected to a MORAL LAW of Conscience.

The MOSES law was brought in SO SIN WOULD ABOUND. Romans 5. And where sin abounds GRACE MUCH MORE ABOUNDS.
---kathr4453 on 1/11/19

It's very dangerous to take ONE VERSE, and build a doctrine around it. Just like David taking Romans 7 insisting it teaches the LAW, he failed to continue reading to the end that through Christ we are delivered from the law, being delivered from the power of sin, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

And David, you still haven't answered any of my questions. Just answer this....if you no longer sin, because Gods seed is in you....why are you keeping the law? Either you can't sin, like you claim, or you need the law to keep you flesh from sinning. So obviously you are afraid of sinning correct? So you CAN SIN...even though His seed is in you..CORRECT?
---kath4453 on 1/11/19

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Dear David I agree with you. But you made a small error in your wording. We are not put under law.---Samuelbb7

(Romans 2:12) For as many as have sinned without law, shall also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law.

Paul said you will perish without the Law. If you perish, can you have Eternal life? When you receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit, you are put under the Law of God. Proof?

Samuel, that sin in your life, the one you try to keep, but can not keep. The only one you are punished by God, for breaking. This is the commandment Paul is referring to in (Romans 7:7-13). If you are not under the Law, why are punished when you break it?
---David on 1/11/19

David, the MYSTERY of CHRIST IN YOU, was kept secret until Jesus rose from the dead. Colossians 1:24-27. Also to eat my flesh and drink my blood....John 6 IS....I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. Hebrews 10.....we enter A NEW AND LIVING WAY THROUGH THE VEIL, THAT IS TO SAY HIS FLESH. Why do you avoid this truth?

We died to sin when we died with Christ. Sin is everything belonging to our first Adam. We are now in the second Adam, meaning we are no longer in the flesh but I the Spirit, if so be we belong to Christ.

Did YOU die with Christ David...yes or no? If you did you also died to the LAW. If you didn't you cannot bring forth FRUIT. read Galatians 5:22-25. Especially note Gal 5:24. Remember the LAW addressed the FLESH.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/19

Thank you Samuel. AS THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD... is key here. This is why Romans 12:1-2 is also so important.

First David, did you die with Christ? Are you Crucified with Christ? Galatians 5:22-25, especially note verse 24. Are you being made conformable to His Death? have you experienced Philippians 3? Have you experienced 1 Peter 4:1?

All this compliments Romans 6-8.

Can you testify to experiencing Colossians 3:1-4? If you say no, then you have never experienced Romans 7.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/19

Dear David I agree with you. But you made a small error in your wording. We are not put under law. Paul uses that phrase to mean the people who try to save themselves by the law or those who are living in sin.

We are under Grace. Romans tells us those under grace will not be breaking the law but striving to live for Jesus.

Romans 6:13-18 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. or sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. ...
---Samuelbb7 on 1/10/19

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In the Bible, the Lords twelve disciples teach from the Gospel, the Gospel Christ taught to them. Paul repeatedly writes in his epistles, his teachings are founded on the Lords Gospel too.

You say your doctrine is founded on Pauls epistles. If Pauls epistles are founded on the Lords Gospel, and your doctrine is founded on Pauls epistles, why cant I find your teachings in the Lords Gospel, when I can find Pauls teachings in the Lords Gospel?

Now that is a mystery.
---David on 1/10/19

Actually David, Romans 7 TO THOSE WHO KNOW THE LAW. ( back then it was Jews not Gentiles under the law) verse 4 YOU "ALSO" we're made to die to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God.

Complete opposite of what you just posted David. Where did you get your Bible? Are you a cult? WHAT? ROmans 7 say NOTHING of what you just posted. You left out the CROSS.

Now check out Galatians 2:20-21 to see this again reiterated.
---kathr4453 on 1/10/19

David, exactly what is Pauls experience in Romans 7 you claim you experienced?---kathr4453

I experienced everything Paul said in the whole chapter, from beginning to end. His marriage analogy is especially telling. In it, he is telling us that in order for us to die to sin, our love for God, must be greater than our love for the world. When it is, we will die to sin.

This Love we must have for God, which causes sin to die, is accomplished through the Law. Everyone who follows the spirt of God, not the flesh, will eventually experience the mortifying of their fleshy desires.

But...if you do not put yourself under Gods Law, you will never love God enough to mortify the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:12-13)
---David on 1/9/19

David, I don't know how long you have been a Christian. But hopefully you will continue to study and learn to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Line upon line, precept upon precept, growing in the Grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, into the fullness and stature OF CHRIST. Eph 4. And that you will realize HE IS ABLE to do above and beyond all we could imagine or think, according to HIS POWER that works in us. EPh 3:14-21.

That it is God working in you to will and to do...Hebrews 13:20-21 Romans 8:11-13 through the blood of the everlasting Covenant.

And that NOTHING can separate you from the Love of God IN CHRIST JESUS...Romans 8 the WHOLE CHAPTER.
---kathr4453 on 1/9/19

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David, exactly what is Pauls experience in Romans 7 you claim you experienced? . Romans 7 is a reiteration of Romans 6 but addressed to Jews so they would also grasp THE CROSS....where Paul ends Romans 7....WHO WILL DELIVER ME FROM THE BODY OF THIS DEATH? I thank God THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ.....exactly what I have been saying from the start...

We , Both Jews and Gentiles are delivered from the body of this death the exact same way....Being baptized into His Death and raised up together with Him.....JESUS DELIVERS through our identification with Him in death and resurrection life.

It appears you don't understand Romans 7 concluded in Romans 8 that there is NOW NO CONDEMNATION to those IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 1/8/19

How do you KNOW you've kept them enough for God to decide who to save? ---kathr4453

When you are born of God, and you have the sign given in (1 John 3:9-10).

My experience, before it happened to me, was the same as Pauls in (Romans 7). Basically, those who are born again, would rather die than sin against God. Its because they love God, and know sin does not please the one we love.
---David on 1/8/19

Oh slap my knee and bang my head on the keyboard....LOL. TOO FUNNY DAVID. Who said I was praying through the Internet. I'm communicating to YOU , and yes it happens to be the Internet.

Now I understand why you are so slow in understanding. You and one other here make a fine pair.

Question though. DOes God THEN decide who He is going to save by seeing who BEST keeps the commandments.OR is God going to save everyone who keeps His commandments? This is what I can't get a straight answer from you about. How do you KNOW you've kept them enough for God to decide then who to save. Is it works or the heavenly lotto? Please clarify.
---kathr4453 on 1/7/19

My prayer for David is that he will enter God's REST, and find that true and everlasting love and peace being IN CHRIST, that only comes by being crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him a New Creature.---kathr4453

Thank you, but I doubt God reads your prayers you send him through the internet.
---David on 1/7/19

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For those saved, God's love is not conditional. The NC is based on I WILL, not If you will then I will. Ezek 36 2Cor 3 Romans 8: 29-39 NOTHING CAN SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD which is IS IN CHRIST JESUS.

My prayer for David is that he will enter God's REST, and find that true and everlasting love and peace being IN CHRIST, that only comes by being crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him a New Creature. And that by THIS GRACE you are saved. Ephesians 2:1-10. Every word here David does not believe. Beware folks of false teachers.
---kathr4453 on 1/6/19

Ephesians 2:1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, ..... 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past ..... 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
---kath4453 on 1/6/19

Actually, Jesus said keeping the Commandments will SAVE you.

JOHN 14:15
15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Matthew 19:17b

There is only One who is good. If you want to enter Life, KEEP the commandments.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/6/19

Also David seems to think we can access the Grace of God by keeping His dummied down commandments.---kathr4453

Remember this...the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is on my side.
(John 14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

God gave Moses 10 commandments, which were called the Law of Moses.
Jesus Christ gives us his commandments and they are called,...what,...Suggestions or Laws??

(Luke 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
---David on 1/6/19

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No Cluny, I actually meant curb, ....I guess it went over your head.

But thanks for being CN spelling and grammar police. That does seem to be all you have to offer here.
---kathr4453 on 1/6/19

Salvation and The Born Again experience means: THE LORD has come into the spiritual heart of the person and by HIS SPIRIT HE has totally given a new conscience to the Believer and the power to not only recognize his previous sinfulness without HIM (and how many multitudes on this earth are in that false belief that by going to church and be religious, and doing 'good deeds' they can earn Heaven - but still living under all kinds of wickedness - as THE LORD says: Those who do that, cannot enter HIS KINGDOM: Revelation 22:15) - once the soul has been saved, "The old things are passed away and the new walk in THE LORD has replaced the previous sinful living" - only THE LORD can do that: "A new creature - under HIS COVERING!!!
---Melody on 1/5/19

\\God did not give us an easier law SO THAT we can earn salvation by being graded on the curb,\\

kathr, the expression is "graded on the CURVE."

You did not use a misspelling, but the totally wrong word.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/5/19

God did not give us an easier law SO THAT we can earn salvation by being graded on the curb, or some dummied down whatever. Also David seems to think we can access the Grace of God by keeping His dummied down commandments. Hebrews 11 show no such truth, even before the Law of Moses or after. You will never see anyone in Hebrews 11 saved, or imputed righteousness because they kept any commandments. They all simply lived BY FAITH in the Promised redeemer who would take away SIN.

And John never says one can earn Gods Grace or enter Gods Grace by keeping any commandments. Just MORE falsehood David made up.

Our foundation is Christ Crucified and risen.
---kathr4453 on 1/5/19

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The very foundation of our house is that we are crucified with Christ, having died to sin, and crucified with Christ, no longer I that live but Christ in us, not voiding the GRACE of God by keeping the law. Galatians 2:20-21, Romans 6-8.

The Mystery CHRIST IN YOU is our foundation, not the law.

David simply is preaching a different ANOTHER gospel...the one the Judiazers brought into Galatia Paul calls accursed.
---kathr4453 on 1/4/19

I go back to (John 14:21) the very foundation of our House. (Matthew 7:26) Notice Jesus uses the word commandments, in (John), If you keep my commandments, you love me...and you shall be loved by my Father... This is the True teaching of Grace, and how its received.

A commandment is a command...a command is not a suggestion. The commands of Jesus Christ are not difficult. Feed the poor..give shelter to the homeless...etc. The Law of there is a Law no man can keep. This is why God changed the Law...but he did not do away with it. (Hebrews 7:12)

God simply gave us a Law we could keep, but to keep this must love God and your neighbor more than your love of the world...and money.(Matthew 19:16-23)
---David on 1/4/19

True we are under the New Covenant not the old. But the Ten Commandments are still laws that show these things are sin.

Paul list six of the Ten Commandments.

Romans 13:8,9 Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)
---Samuelbb7 on 1/3/19

The law is not of faith either, yet scripture says that showing no faith is also sin.

We say we are sorry because WE LOVE GOD, and agree with Him what is and is not pleasing to Him. And the fact that He is faithful and just to forgive us is because we are His children. My own children are not under the law, but will always apologize when they know they have hurt me.

And they are not confessing they forgot to brush their teeth or stayed out after 10:00. We are also AT LIBERTY, which also states we are no longer under the Law of Moses, ...we are however under the Law of Christ, having LIBERTY, but not using it as a cloak of maliciousness.
---kathr4453 on 1/3/19

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Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid

The law stills say lying etc is a sin. Those who love GOD are sorry for their sins.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/3/19

Because not all of the sins are breaking of the LAW, but all Christians are under God's law, which says to love thy neighbor.---Monk_Brendan

Congratulations, you are very rare brother, rare indeed. The majority of Christians...though they know this, will not acknowledge it, nor do they live it.

They confess to Adultery...Theft..lying and sometimes Murder. All confessions of breaking Gods laws, laws which they believe they are not under. So why the confession?

Its like calling your folks to apologize for staying out past 10 PM. A Law you might have been under as a child, but a Law you are not under as a adult. So why the confession?
---David on 1/3/19

Melody, welcome back.

Believe or not, at a younger age (20) I prayed to God to please let me know which Church was His. And I would leave the CC if She wasn't His. I meant it.

But, He confirmed my Faith in the Catholic Church.

We (family) discovered EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network) a Catholic network. An answer to my prayer.

I am NOT afraid to leave any Faith as long as it's isn't God's Faith.

//"GOD used The Law to teach HIS people, what transgress against HIM" . . . what a fallacy//

No, it is correct. Luke 12:47-48

Melody, you have to understand that just because you THINK I am in an idolatrous/heretic religion doesn't mean I am.

Remember, Muslims think the same about you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/2/19

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