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Rome And Churches Of The East

Why is it that ancient churches of the East that had NOTHING to do with Rome or the popes, not only worshiped on Sunday, but had episcopal polity (bishops, presbyters, and deacons), and the sacraments?

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NurseRobert: Davis NEVER claimed to be president of the US, he claimed to be President of CSA.//

I named the States 2 Presidents claimed to be their Presidents. You CAN'T have 2.

Kids in Alabama do NOT CITE Jefferson Davis as the 16th President in their lesson.

I had to cite all the Presidents in School and I was living in Alabama.

Jefferson Davis was the Anti-President.

It wouldn't be any different if California broke from United States, renamed it 'Open Border Country' Named Brown their President.

Is he really the President?

NO! Trump is the President.

War again to take the land back.

There was NEVER spats among 3 Popes.

There was a spat with 1 POPE and 2 other Cardinals
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/18/19


\\
What makes you think that I care which days you go to church?\\

Then why are YOU the one making an issue over it, jerry?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/19


Jerry: his CUSTOM was, he went into the synagogue on the SABBATH day, and stood up for to read.//

A side note, but it was very interesting to me:

In Matthew Gospel, he always identify Jesus entering the synagogues as 'their' not including Him even though Jesus is Jewish.

Ex: Matthew 9:35

As for Paul and Acts, going to Church on the Sabbath didn't even enter the rules for Jews entering the Church.

Acts 15:19-20 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/18/19


But there was another man ALSO claiming he was president at the same time. Jefferson Davis

---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/19

Just because Davis claimed he was President didn't make him President.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/17/19

Is that NOT what I said? Davis NEVER claimed to be president of the US, he claimed to be President of CSA.

How does this change the spat the Catholic Church had when they had 3 popes?
---NurseRobert on 1/18/19


What makes you think that Sunday is the only day I go to church, jerry?
---Cluny on 1/14/19

What makes you think that I care which days you go to church?

I just want to know how you can call yourself Orthodox, when you don't follow the example of Jesus and the Apostles.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his CUSTOM was, he went into the synagogue on the SABBATH day, and stood up for to read.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his MANNER was, went in unto them, and three SABBATH days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,



---jerry6593 on 1/18/19




NurseRobert: Except that Davis NEVER claimed he was president of the United States, but of the southern states that withdrew from the US.//

???

Oh, so ONLY children TODAY living in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Texas, Florida, Virginia, and Tennessee have to cite Davis name next to Lincoln's name as the 16th Presidents.

NO ONE recites Davis' name because Davis was NEVER the President of even those States.

That's why we went to war

Lincoln was the TRUE President of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Texas, Florida, Virginia, and Tennessee NOT Davis.

Just because Davis claimed he was President didn't make him President.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/17/19


What makes you think that Sunday is the only day I go to church, jerry?
---Cluny on 1/14/19

Interesting point, Cluny.... Lets say I got lost on a deserted island.. It's very possible that I would lose sense of time, including the day of the week (I see this all the time with hospitalized patients).

Does that mean if I worship on the wrong day that God will ignore me..

In all honestly, this argument about what day is the Sabbath amounts to nothing but petty legalistic squabbling. God is going to hear my prayers and worship regardless of what day it is.
---NurseRobert on 1/17/19


\\It's unconceivable that some people here claiming to be Christians, they keep on giving 'honor and reverence' to those that throughout times have been leading the souls into separation from THE LORD by their pagan and false doctrines\\

Like your postings here, Melody?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/17/19


Nicole said, "
Sorry for NOT taking your opinion as FACT.

Since you are NOT an historian could you at least CITE an Historian concerning Pope's lying and Pope Francis lying today?"
You can read about the wicked popes in the Catholic Encyclopedia

Next, the Papal Divide that the Council of Constance had to intervene.
---john9346 on 1/17/19


Abraham Lincoln was our President. But there was another man ALSO claiming he was president at the same time. Jefferson Davis

---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/19

Except that Davis NEVER claimed he was president of the United States, but of the southern states that withdrew from the US. Your 3 Popes, all claimed to be THE POPE of the entire church. So back to my question: how do you explain the three Popes in 1378-1417. Each claimed to be Pope, each had their own following. Each excommunicated the others.. Was that just a "spat"?
---NurseRobert on 1/16/19




"The blind leading the blind":

It's unconceivable that some people here claiming to be Christians, they keep on giving 'honor and reverence' to those that throughout times have been leading the souls into separation from THE LORD by their pagan and false doctrines and the adulteration of The Scriptures, in order to bring the souls to do exactly what THE LORD first and above all things and from the very beginning warns about it: "Those who worship idols, cannot enter GOD'S KINGDOM"- and those who do, they do to evil spirits" - no wonder they get so obstinate in rejecting THE TRUTH that only relies in GOD'S WORD inspired by THE LORD HIMSELF and through HIS HOLY SPIRIT!
---Melody on 1/16/19


Monk: Sorry, Nicole, but the correct method for addressing a Cardinal is: "During a formal introduction,//

How can I introduce a Cardinal to myself when I address him? That's awkward.

I would address him as 'Hello Cardinal Michael Smith' NOT 'Hello Michael Cardinal Smith'

Or say 'Hello Cardinal Smith', Or if 'Hello your Eminence'

The argument isn't about introduction, but Forename or Title

//He should be directly addressed as Your Eminence or Cardinal (Last Name) or, on paper, as His Eminence, (First Name) Cardinal (Last Name), Archbishop of (Location).//

Jerry didn't present his name as you wrote.

That's my point. Not Cluny or Jerry's point.

So why are you pouncing on me?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/15/19


Nicole said, "Titles are NEVER used in between a person's name."

Sorry, Nicole, but the correct method for addressing a Cardinal is: "During a formal introduction, a Cardinal should be introduced as His Eminence, (First Name) Cardinal (Last Name), Archbishop of (Location). He should be directly addressed as Your Eminence or Cardinal (Last Name) or, on paper, as His Eminence, (First Name) Cardinal (Last Name), Archbishop of (Location).
---Monk_Brendan on 1/15/19


Wrong Cluny:

Cluny: The proper style for a cardinal is Forename, Cardinal, Surname.//

***Forename is your first name (not nickname). surname is your family name. - Quora

Cardinal, Father, Monsignor, Sister, Brother, Bishop, Deacon, Pope, and etc.

Some can go by their Title completely without their names. Your Holiness, His Excellency and etc.

Go to 'How to Address Priests and Religious: Titles and Signs of Respect' by Marian Therese Horvat, Ph.D. for more details.

Titles are NEVER used in between a person's name.

For Religious you can place the order's name(s) after the name.

Sister Marie Paul, OP (Order of Preachers)

I know many men named Cardinal as their first or middle name.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/14/19


Wrong, Nicole.

The proper style for a cardinal is Forename, Cardinal, Surname.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/14/19


Jerry thanks, I asked because even in your citation I knew someone already has taken Cardinal Gibbons out of context.

And I know it was a Protestant because of this example:

//James Cardinal Gibbons,//

Who puts a title in the middle of the name?

I first thought his middle name was Cardinal.

It's Cardinal James Gibbons.

The Catholic Press in 1900 wasn't valid Catholic Newspaper.

Anywho, The Faith of Our Fathers, p.111 isn't how you read anything.

I know many Protestants who believe they can take out a verse and build it's meaning AROUND that verse. You can't.

But please go to:

"sunday or sabbath" and Faith of Our Fathers Apologetics-- Catholic Answers Forum
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/14/19


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What makes you think that Sunday is the only day I go to church, jerry?

Assembling for worship has NOTHING to do with the Sabbath commandment.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/14/19


Nicole: // I was quoting Catholic sources.

How do I know that?//

James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers, p.111

Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 25,1900.

If these aren't authentic enough for you, I've got lots more.

I thought you knew that Saturday was the seventh day Sabbath of the Commandments spoken by God. Just check any dictionary or encyclopedia. Please show from Scripture where Sunday is to be kept in honor of the resurrection.



Cluny: There is nothing orthodox about Sunday keeping. Jesus and the Apostles kept Sabbath exclusively. What raving lunatic told you differently?


---jerry6593 on 1/13/19


Sunday worship, episcopal polity, and the sacraments were not Roman inventions, separately or severally, despite what some controversialists try to say.

Furthermore, Paganism, in any form, did NOT have a weekly day of worship, despite what SDA's and others say.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/13/19


\\I have a better question for you. Why is it that ancient churches of the East that had NOTHING to do with Rome or the popes, kept all the false doctrines of Catholicism, but not the ORTHODOX teachings of Jesus and the Apostles?\\

We do keep the Orthodox teachings of Christ and the Apostles, but you don't.

Instead, you keep the teachings of a raving possessed madwoman who has been proven to be a false prophet.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/12/19


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Jerry: Nicole: I was quoting Catholic sources.//

How do I know that?

Many Protestants CLAIM to be Catholic Scholars using the CCC out of context.

//Are you arguing against your own church?//

Never.

Your failure to cite the Catholic Source is WHAT I am arguing against.

I have said many times that the Catholic Church made the Sabbath on Sundays as the 8th day. Matthew 16:18-19

The CC and Orthodox have the same TRUE Sacraments and Teaching in the 1st thousand century because we were ONE under ONE POPE PETER.

Cluny, knows that because the Orthodox Church can NOT name their Leaders back to Jesus without SLAMMING into our Popes.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/11/19


Cluny:

"Why is it that ancient churches of the East that had NOTHING to do with Rome or the popes, not only worshiped on Sunday, but had episcopal polity (bishops, presbyters, and deacons), and the sacraments?"

I have a better question for you. Why is it that ancient churches of the East that had NOTHING to do with Rome or the popes, kept all the false doctrines of Catholicism, but not the ORTHODOX teachings of Jesus and the Apostles?


---jerry6593 on 1/11/19


Nicole: I was quoting Catholic sources. Are you arguing against your own church?



Cluny: And your point is ...?



---jerry6593 on 1/9/19


Great Moses mystically prefigured this present day when he said, And God blessed the seventh day. For this is the blessed Sabbath, this is the day of rest on which the only-begotten Son of God rested from all his works, through the dispensation in accordance with death, he kept the Sabbath in the flesh, and returning once again to what he was through the Resurrection he has granted us eternal life, for he alone is good and loves mankind.
---Cluny on 1/8/19


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Steveng: Nicole wrote: "...keeping the Sabbath WASN'T in Genesis."

//REMEMBER the Sabbath day, to keep it holy..Exodus 20:811//

???

Okay, not in Genesis

//God BLESSED the seventh day, and SANCTIFIED it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made Genesis 2:13//

So, logically if Jesus ROSE on Sunday it WOULD be even MORE HOLIER

//Christ taught that the Sabbath was made for man (Mark 2:27) not just the jews.//

Don't be smart

Mark 2:27 STATES:

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

God didn't make the Sabbath as a WEAPON against men!

Read Verses 22-26 prior to 27

BTW, verse 22 applies to you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/7/19


Nicole wrote: "...keeping the Sabbath WASN'T in Genesis."

REMEMBER the Sabbath day, to keep it holy... wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:811

Why did God ask us to remember? Remember is to remind us of what was done in the past. to forget the true Sabbath is to forget the true Creator. Satan wants us to not remember the Sabbath.

And God BLESSED the seventh day, and SANCTIFIED it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made Genesis 2:13

Also, many people, including Christians, think that the Sabbath was made for the jews. Christ taught that the Sabbath was made for man (Mark 2:27) not just the jews.
---Steveng on 1/7/19


Jerry: The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday,//

No, it doesn't. The Commandment ONLY states keep the Sabbath.

The origin of Sabbath means to stop or cease

The origin of the Hebrew sabbat [t'B,v] is uncertain, but it seems to have derived from the verb sabat, meaning to stop

"Sabbath" (from the Hebrew verb shabbat, meaning "to rest from labor", the day of rest)

The 3rd Commandment states Keep the Sabbath Day Holy. Not keep Saturday Holy

BTW, I always wondered if the SDA start Friday evening and stop Saturday evening?

Meaning Saturday after dark ISN'T the Sabbath anymore.

I am not getting smart, I really want to know
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/7/19


Jerry, keeping the Sabbath WASN'T in Genesis.

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the KEYS of the kingdom of HEAVEN, WHATEVER you bind on EARTH will be bound in HEAVEN, and whatever you loose on EARTH will be loosed in HEAVEN.

No difference if a man gave me a blank check and told me fill in WHATEVER you wish and I will honor it.

I write 20 Trillion dollars to myself.

The bank starts yelling at me saying "He didn't mean that much."

I reply "Just because you HAVE to abide to the amount DOESN'T mean you can change the TERMS of our (the man and me) agreement.

20 Trillion is IN whatever.

CASH IT!

You may not like the Sabbath on Sunday, but doesn't mean Jesus is upset as well.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/7/19


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Nicole: "Why else would we do so?"

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [Catholics] never sanctify." - James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers, p.111

"Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles ... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." - Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 25,1900.


---jerry6593 on 1/6/19


\\
No Cluny, it is YOU who are the hypocrite. I have told you that we SDA's keep the ONLY day commanded by God in the Ten Commandments - the seventh-day Sabbath.\\

Right, Jerry.

You pick and choose.

Do SDAs indulge in fornication since only adultery is mentioned in the 10?

How about homogenital acts? These are not mentioned in the 10, either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/6/19


Melody: "Everyday is the day to honor THE LORD//

Yes, that's why the CC has Daily Mass.

We understand that 'Lord's Prayer' very well.

...Give us this day our Daily Bread.

//As Paul said: "Show me your faith without works, and I'll show you my faith by my works"//

You meant James not Paul.

James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

We agree on somethings
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/6/19


"Everyday is the day to honor THE LORD and live under HIS GUIDANCE AND ADMONITIONS" - what's the use for some to keep one day or another, but their commitment unto THE LORD is not there on their daily living and on that, it just become a religious appearance??? Foolishness!

As Paul said: "Show me your faith without works, and I'll show you my faith by my works" - the decisions in every respect that reverence and pleases our LORD and under HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!
---Melody on 1/6/19


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Cluny: "Jerry, you are a hypocrite.

You admit that the SDA picks and chooses which of the Biblical sabbaths it keeps."

No Cluny, it is YOU who are the hypocrite. I have told you that we SDA's keep the ONLY day commanded by God in the Ten Commandments - the seventh-day Sabbath.

You, on the other hand, are unable to explain how your adherence to a counterfeit sabbath (Sunday) comports with the definition of Orthodox - a title you claim as your own. If you were truthful, you would admit that the SDA position on this subject is the orthodox one and yours is not.


---jerry6593 on 1/6/19


jerry, you are a hypocrite.

You admit that the SDA picks and chooses which of the Biblical sabbaths it keeps.

WHEN you start keeping the Saturday Sabbath AND all the others that God commanded, along with all of the restrictions ordered, THEN you might have a moral leg to stand on.

Until then, I'm unimpressed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/5/19


Jerry, one of the main service books of the Orthodox Church is the Horologion or Book of Hours.

It contains services for every day of the year.

So I guess we're keeping Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, AND Saturday.

Glory to Jesus Chrrist!
---Cluny on 1/5/19


Jerry: At least the Catholics are honest enough to admit they they changed it on their own authority.//

you keep saying that without finishing our beliefs.

She holds the Sabbath on Sundays from the Authority given to Her by Her Bridegroom Jesus Christ.

Even if you don't believe it you could at least say: They admit they changed the Sabbath day because of the belief Jesus gave them the authority to do so.

Why else would we do so?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/5/19


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Cluny: I don't know why you guys keep Sunday. Care to explain?

What I mean about "keep Sabbath holy" is exactly this:

Exo 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Why do you refuse to address the core issue that Jesus and the Apostles kept the seventh-day Sabbath (not Sunday) and alleged Orthodox do not. This fact belies the very meaning of the word "orthodox". At least the Catholics are honest enough to admit they they changed it on their own authority. What is YOUR excuse?


---jerry6593 on 1/5/19


People keep telling us that God told us to keep the Sabbath from the beginning.

Is that so? God only told Adam to guard and work the garden.

In fact I don't think He even told him to rest every 7th day.

I might be wrong and haven't taken the time to read Genesis again.
'
It takes centuries until Moses comes along before God mentions the Sabbath according to the Bible.

I am NOT saying the Sabbath ISN'T important.

Sabbath Commandment is listed 3rd which means it is the 3rd most important commandment to God.

Can anyone find a verse where God instructs anyone not to work on the Sabbath?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/19


NurseRobert: I give citations, not vague historical statements want other to just BELIEVE me.

//how do you explain the three Popes in 1378-1417. Each claimed to be Pope, each had their own following. Each excommunicated the others.. Was that just a "spat"?//

That is ridiculous.

Abraham Lincoln was our President. But there was another man ALSO claiming he was president at the same time. Jefferson Davis

He ALSO had a following. Those men STARTED a war killing more Americans in our history.

Was that a spat?

When children cite all the Presidents back to Washington do they claim BOTH Davis and Lincoln were the 16th Presidents?

No! Lincoln was the 16th President for the South as the North!
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/4/19


Samuel, what do you mean by "keep the Sabbath" in this context? Please elaborate.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/3/19


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---Nicole_Lacey on 1/3/19

//Sorry for NOT taking your opinion as FACT.//

But you expect us to take your opinion as fact?

//You CAN'T have a Schism UNLESS you were ONE CHURCH!
Only the CC can name every Pope back to Peter.//

Then how do you explain the three Popes in 1378-1417. Each claimed to be Pope, each had their own following. Each excommunicated the others.. Was that just a "spat"?
---NurseRobert on 1/3/19


Samuel: Nicole Monk Brendon told the truth. The Popes starting taking powers and authority that was not theirs.//

Jesus can give His Authority to ANYONE He wishes. He doesn't need anyone's approval. Matt 28:18

//They lied and are still lying about many things.//

Sorry for NOT taking your opinion as FACT.

Since you are NOT an historian could you at least CITE an Historian concerning Pope's lying and Pope Francis lying today?

//Look up the Great Schism of 1054.//

THANK YOU!

You CAN'T have a Schism UNLESS you were ONE CHURCH!

Which I been saying all this time.

Only the CC can name every Pope back to Peter.

The Orthodox Churches has to blend in the Popes from the CC.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/3/19


Nicole Monk Brendon told the truth. The Popes starting taking powers and authority that was not theirs. They lied and are still lying about many things.

Look up the Great Schism of 1054. Look in an Encyclopedia as well as the Vatican spin.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/3/19


Cluny and Monk, if you were a Christian you were Catholic.

It was named Catholic because it means universal.

TODAY people who are NOT Christian think the Catholic Church is the Leader of ALL CHRISTIANS in the world.

They DON'T know about Protestants, Orthodox or Mormons.

You say Christian they think Catholic. You say Catholic they think Christian.
INTERCHANGEABLE WORDS.

Which was TRUE until 1054!

Cluny: Neither the Assyrian, Persian, or Indian churches were ever under the Popes,//

That's news to them?

The Pope just canonized many of them and they were at the Vatican

Google the CC in Iran (Persians). You can't speak about them AFTER 1054. I am speaking about the unity BEFORE 1054.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/2/19


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Why giving honor here in this Christian site - to those who defiantly have trampled upon THE LORD HOLINESS AND HIS WORD - from the past and into the present with their corrupted and false/idolatrous/heretic doctrines and even persecuted true Christians throughout times? . . . listen what THE LORD says (not a wicked deceitful religious man) . . . if you remain defending such wickedness - you have decided into becoming lost and reprobate by your own will!

"For behold the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud (yes, those of whom some here constantly exalting them because of their own spiritual blindness themselves) yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble, saith THE LORD". Malachi 4:1
---Melody on 1/2/19


There were churches in Africa who kept Sabbath as well as Ireland.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/2/19


Nicole, your assumption has a fatal error: The only church that was UNDER Rome was the church of Rome itself. No other bishop even pretended to acknowledge a Roman SUPER-authority until at least 312 A.D.
---Monk_Brendan on 1/2/19


\\That's because the ancient Churches in the East were UNDER the Catholic Churches and HER Popes.\\

Neither the Assyrian, Persian, or Indian churches were ever under the Popes, or even had anything to do with them, Nicole.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/2/19


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That's because the ancient Churches in the East were UNDER the Catholic Churches and HER Popes.

Orthodox Churches wasn't separate and on their own until 1054
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/2/19


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