ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Grace Through Faith

What verse says specifically Christians are UNDER the Law of Christ. Is this an addition to those UNDER GRACE or just another way of saying UNDER GRACE?

Only those saved by Grace through faith respond.

Join Our Christian Friendship and Take The Salvation Bible Quiz
 ---kathr4453 on 1/19/19
     Helpful Blog Vote (2)

Post a New Blog



David, your analogy that Melody and I are the same person because we both use CAPS , just like your so called analogies in scripture is flawed. Relying on analogies that come up bogus ,but you believe anyway against all advise as well as scripture is not even a learning disability, ( another misdiagnosis you throw around) but just some sad person trying to light their own candle.

And there is no WE David. You are alone here. And your analogy and misdiagnosis in this case was out of malice. You are simply a very immature man who's only way to defend your belief was to insult. You still could not provide scripture to support your belief, again showing YOU LOST THE ARGUMENT.
---kathr4453 on 2/2/19


David, Pauls salvation EXPERIENCE was on his way to murdering more Christians when he was struck down by God. Now you say WE ALL have the same salvation experience as Paul, and unlike the other apostles. WRONG! This is twice you have said we need to experience Pauls being struck down and being taken to paradise. THIS IS FALSE TEACHING, AS NO SCRIPTURE TEACHES THIS.

David, you put emphasis on experience and not the Gospel. THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION, message is the same.
Many false teachers also insist you MUST have the EXPERIENCE of speaking in tongues as proof of your salvation. WRONG AGAIN.

We are saved BY GRACE through FAITH in JESUS EXPERIENCE of His dying for our sin. We are not saved by an EXPERIENCE.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/19


why is it that when 7th day sabbath is taught, many christians & pastors say 'we are not UNDER the law' or '7th day sabbath is LEGALISTIC' but when it comes to money & quoting malachi 3:10 give your 10%, pastors say 'you are sinning & you are disobedient, you lack faith'you should obey God. hypocrite.
---mike on 2/1/19


David, So you want us to believe today everyone should experience getting thrown off a horse, on the way to Damascus or wherever, hearing Gods voice saying..."WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME"?---kathr4453

Kathryn
We all try our best to use analogies to help you understand. If you have a learning disability that inhibits you from understanding, you need to let us know.
---David on 2/1/19


Personally I think you have mental issues. I don't know what happened to you...possibly a psychotic break from reality, who knows, but you simply do not have the gift of teaching.---kathr4453

What happened to me? You discovered I am right, and you are wrong. Only you are too proud to admit it. Your name calling only empathizes this fact. Its what people do, who dont have the evidence to prove their point.

I hope you can set your hate for me aside, and then do what Jesus taught, and then you may learn the truth.
---David on 2/1/19




David, So you want us to believe today everyone should experience getting thrown off a horse, on the way to Damascus or wherever, hearing Gods voice saying..."WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME"? getting blinded by the Light of the Glory of God, etc etc. .....And you want us all to believe this is YOUR SALVATION EXPERIENCE too? And those who have never experienced this kind of salvation is what?

David, I'm done discussing with you.

You bearing false witness shows you should be knoched on your hind end, but not as a salvation experience.

Personally I think you have mental issues. I don't know what happened to you...possibly a psychotic break from reality, who knows, but you simply do not have the gift of teaching.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/19


So please stop the games, and answer the question. ---kathr4453

Kathryn/Melody
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the foundational teaching of salvation. Just like arithmetic is the foundational teaching for mathematics. You dont find calculus being taught in a first or second grade class on arithmetic,...do you?

If we do what Jesus tells us to do in his Gospel, then you will be able to understand Pauls testimony. Our experience of salvation is like Pauls experience. The Lords disciples had a different experience. This is why they didnt teach what Paul taught.
---David on 1/31/19


First of all, both you and Melody spell my name the same, which is not how I spell my name. BINGO.

David, you are the one playing games here. And trying to present a smoke screen is something you would do. If I'm going to make up a fictitious character , I would choose to have one agreeing with me on doctrine .

So please stop the games, and answer the question.

Melody, I simply responded to David's post that we were the same person. If showing we are not offends you, I'm sorry. I have no motive to pretend to be you. That would make me a liar concerning my faith and beliefs to present another view. Only David would make such a twisted assumption.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/19


Melody, before judging others , please first take your own advise. You have been called our by almost everyone here, and you use the same line of defense...HOW DARE YOU, approach.

I've stayed out of your way, like others you DELETED.

I post the same gut felt honesty you claim you have toward others you falsely accuse. And you're still at it, never heeding the advise so many others have addressed your holier than thou Judgemental attitude. At least when asked, I give SPECIFICS as to what I disagree with you about. You however do not nor do you use scripture.

You and David are the same.
---kath4453 on 1/30/19


Kathryn:

It's amazing, how you come and attack others with your insensitive assumptions and then if we respond against it putting to shame your accusatory words, then you start again throwing blame on us because 'we dare' to speak up for ourselves - don't want to hear more of your derogatory comments about me - keep them to yourself and may THE LORD let you know your lack of respect and sensitivity towards others: "He that has knowledge spares his words, and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit". Proverbs 17:27
---Melody on 1/30/19




Kathryn
I will withhold further comment until you get ahold of yourself. You are doing a commendable job playing both roles, only you forgot to have Melody address me about my accusation.

If you are not one and the same, why didnt Melody deny it too? Oh what a tangled web you weave.
---David on 1/30/19


OK, I challenged David to show us Jesus teachings in the Gospels on a few scriptures. He said he believes what Paul wrote, but Jesus will clarify those verses in the Gospels so they won't be taken out of context...something like that.

So again David, cross reference with Jesus words, Colossians 3:1-4, all,of Colossians 2, Galatains 2:20-21, and Galatians 5....the falling from Grace part.

And I especially want Jesus words that say His Blood AND the Law will cause sin to die in us. I can't seem to find that one. And it totally opposes Romans 6-8. Prove Pauls words In Romans 6-8 are taken out of context. You make a lot of accusations, but never back up with scripture. Now you have a chance to back up your claim.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/19


Melody, I never said anything about you being a terrible speller. That can be done in any language. So your silly comment here only shows how thin skinned you are to look for something..JUST ANYTHING to somehow justify yourself, by pointing your finger at another to make yourself look good.

You sound like the very people you condemn online here..re Cluny, the spelling police. But a persons shortcomings and disabilities has NOTHING to do with fasle doctrine.

Try again Melody.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/19


"Saved by GRACE" - as THE LORD says it in HIS WORD: "If you love ME, keep MY COMMANDMENTS". - no one can live under that commitment - unless by THE GRACE OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!
---Melody on 1/29/19


There are two resurrections - the first for the believers and the second for the non-belivers who do God's word. Blessed are those that in the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 1/29/19


I also can't believe Melody would lower herself to bust into a thread acting like a 10 year old. You can respond on the correct thread Melody. This is also something Nicole would do. It's amazing the things you have picked up ( bad habits) from the very ones you rail against.

Actually maybe Melody is David.....creating a diversion so he can avoid answering questions. Both have that superiority attitude that they are Gods gift to those here on CN. HUMMMMMMMM!
---kath4453 on 1/29/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


Axe:

And you can keep on giving The Scriptures your own meaning but to no avail! -
---Melody on 1/28/19

Exactly what David keeps saying to those he disagrees with....hummm

I believe Melody and David are the same person.
---kat453 on 1/29/19


I also can't believe Melody would lower herself to bust into a thread acting like a 10 year old. You can respond on the correct thread Melody. This is also something Nicole would do. It's amazing the things you have picked up ( bad habits) from the very ones you rail against.

Actually maybe Melody is David.....creating a diversion so he can avoid answering questions. Both have that superiority attitude that they are Gods gift to those here on CN. HUMMMMMMMM!
---kath4453 on 1/29/19


Kathryn:

RESPECTOR the right word - (is English your 2nd language too?) - :-) - careful of what we say and how we say it (especially under judgment to others) as for sure - will return to us . . . WHO said that??? - oh - oh!
---Melody on 1/29/19


Unmerited grace, = This covenant between The Father, Word and Holy Spirit made before the earth was created or even man was created.the Grace that brings SALVATION, the one the Prophets longed to look into..1 Peter 1:1-13. This wonderful GIFT of the Grace of God is based on what Jesus did, not what man did.

Unmerited favor, again something altogether different. Since God said He is no REPSECTOR of persons, this teaching re Calvinism is not in scripture.

Gods GRACE is that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. But this GRACE is only realized by those who put their faith in Jesus who died for our sin. Not all believe this, and have INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE, Bringing on themselves the wrath of God. Hebrews 10.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


David, again you avoid questions. I asked you specifically to show where in the Gospels ONLY, Jesus words ONLY Colossians 3:-14, Galatians 2:20-21, Colossians 1:24-27, Galatians 5, falling from Grace in exactly the words Paul uses. You claim Pauls GRACE teaching comes from Jesus words in the Gospels....prove it. Show it. Or shut up.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/19


David, what does unmerited Grace means? ---kathr4453

Grace is being in Gods favor.
Unmerited means you dont have to do anything to be in Gods favor.

David what part of the Grace Paul taught do you have issues with?---kathr4453

I have no issues with anything Paul taught.

I believe GRACE or the GRACE that brings salvation is ones' belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. ---kathr4453

See I was right, we define Grace differently. So lets concentrate on that, since your definition of Grace is the foundation of what you believe.
---David on 1/29/19


David, what does unmerited Grace means? I believe GRACE or the GRACE that brings salvation is ones' belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ....John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

We are SAVED by OUR FAITH IN Jesus sacrifice on the cross for our sin. Justified by faith in His blood and saved by His Life. So either you are confused as to my beliefs, or you believe in unmerited GRACE that keeps you under the law. The term or concept simply is not in scripture. ALSO If Grace is unmerited then one simply cannot FALL from it. Paul says one can.....Galatians 2:20-21 especially v 21 show how. ....those who wish to be under the law have fallen from GRACE. This is what all of Galatians is about.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/19


David what part of the Grace Paul taught do you have issues with? Is it that we DIED TO SIN, something Jesus never taught in the Gospels....or that we are CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, again nothing Jesus specifically taught in the Gospels?

Or the truth that both Jew and Gentile are ONE NEW MAN IN CHRIST, again something Jesus never taught in the Gospels.

Where in the Gospels Jesus taught can you specifically find Colossians 3:1-4? Or Colossians 2 , including the putting off of the body of sin by the circumcision of Christ...nailing it to the cross?

Just show supporting scriptures for the above in Jesus words in only the 4 Gospels. If you divert again and blow more smoke...you are the false teacher.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/19


Send a Free Just Because Ecard


David, it's been obvious for sometime you do not believe in the GRACE Paul teaches in Ephesians 2, and are very angry at those who do.---kathr4453

Kathryn
But you dont teach the Grace Paul taught. If you did, I wouldnt be trying to correct you. As far as anger, anyone can see by our comments who is angry.

And if you cant answer the question I asked you yesterday, about (John 17), just admit it. Then there would be no need for you Create a diversion, with your slanderous accusations.
---David on 1/28/19


"For by GRACE we are saved" and if saved by GRACE - then this message to those who has obtained salvation through THE LORD:

"Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep The Commandments of GOD, and the faith of JESUS". Revelation 14:12

And I heard a voice from Heaven saying unto me, write: Blessed are the dead which died in THE LORD henceforth: Yea, says THE SPIRIT: That they may rest of their labors, and their works do follow them". (From which eternal rewards come) = Revelations 14:12,13

"He that overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his GOD, and he shall be MY son". - Only through GOD'S GRACE can the sinner live under obedience to THE LORD!
---Melody on 1/27/19


David, it's been obvious for sometime you do not believe in the GRACE Paul teaches in Ephesians 2, and are very angry at those who do. I also feel you are confusing salvation with sanctification, which is our life IN CHRIST after we are saved by Grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast. You jump around so much contradicting yourself here and there, never answering any of my questions. Arguing against ALL scripture I posted is also puzzling. Never agreeing re THE CROSS, again also puzzling.

OK now that you've had your say...and your disdain towards Protestants .....well....OK, move on.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/19


David, I asked only those saved By Grace through faith respond.--kathr4453

I was saved by the Grace, but it was the Grace defined by Jesus Christ. If you only wanted those who believe they are saved by your Grace, you need to express that.
---David on 1/27/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


David, I asked only those saved By Grace through faith respond.


Only those IN CHRIST understand spiritual things. I just can't help you. The natural mind cannot understand the things of The Spirit. Your answers, comments and arguments show you are still carnal minded. Only the Lord can change that, no one here can no matter how they try.

It appears you will never GROW in the Grace and knowledge of Him, because you have an unteachable spirit.


There is just nothing more that can be said to you. When you STOP sitting in juddgement of another...MAYBE you might start to Grow and the Lord just may begin to enlighten you....but now....your pride is your problem.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/19


It's all there in John 17....---kathr4453

Kathryn
I admit ignorance, when it comes to understanding your doctrine. Since its all there, Can you point out in (John 17), the verses where Jesus taught Gods Grace is unmerited? Can you show us the verses where Jesus ended Gods Law?

Is there any way you can get one of your church pastors to come on here? If I make their teachings look foolish in front of you, that could make you turn away from their foolishness, and return to the foundation of Truth Paul and I use,...The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
---David on 1/27/19


Also those IN CHRIST are on solid rock. The rock can't get anymore solid than this. And we KNOW how we got here..."IN CHRIST" that is.

Romans 8....NOTHING can separate you from the Love of God that is IN CHRIST JESUS. SOLID ROCK...so so SOLID!

Some here make such foolish statements and false accusations based on their own self righteousness rather than CHRISTS Righteousness.

John 17 that they may KNOW ME
Paul..Phil 3. THAT I MAY KNOW HIM.

John 17. To share in His GLORY
Colossians 1:24-27. THE HOPE OF GLORY.

Oh the Truths God showed Paul, I'm sure when he was taken up to Paradise and shown things..

Things YOU David were never shown.
---kathr4453 on 1/26/19


David, Pauls teaching is based on Jesus Prayer in John 17. I IN THEM AND THOU IN ME THAT WE MAY BE ONE. ( CHRIST IN YOU! THE HOPE OF GLORY. It's all there in John 17, and more fully DETAILED in Pauls teachings. It's all of Romans 6-8, Colossians 3:1-4, Colossians 1:24-27, ALL OF EPHESIANS, and all of Galatians. The problem is......why don't YOU see this and KNOW this?

Steveng, The Grace of God that BRINGS SALVATION, is not a rainbow, it's Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. Now those SAVED you might say are under a Covenant that has brought PEACE where we will never be destroyed....if you want to use that, but EVERYONE????? Not so. The Wrath Of God is coming and this time with fire on all who rejected the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 1/26/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


Kathryn
If your going to teach Paul, do us all a favor and base it on something Jesus taught in his Gospel, as Paul did.

Would you like me to demonstrate how to do this?
---David on 1/25/19


kathr wrote: "So, Steveng thinks he's going to be saved by a rainbow."

It just goes to show you how you misinterpret what is written.
---Steveng on 1/25/19


David again, you are making false accusations. Before you presume on what I believe, please show exactly where I said DO NOT OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD...

Where David? NO WHERE! Except in your delusional drug induced stuper. Where in all the scripture have I posted, does any of it say "do not obey the voice of the Lord? "

I really don't know what your problem is....but it's your problem. Get help David.

Do you believe the words God gave to Paul are sinking sand? I don't.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/19


David ever since we began debating, you always start your post off with a condescending insult, exalting yourself, while attacking and comparing your arrogant attitude with anothers faith and relationship with the Lord, by measurering against "YOU" some delusion that you are Gods measuring stick you think God is using to measure others by. You can't get more arrogant and self righteousness than that.

God measures me up against how much I have grown IN CHRIST, into the fullness and stature of Christ who is my life. Ephesians 4. And NOTHING can separate me from the love of God that is IN CHRIST JESUS. Romans 8.

You comments only make you look foolish. I know who I am IN CHRIST. YOU DONT.
---kath4453 on 1/25/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Make Money


Kathryn
You see me as ignorant because I have built upon the rock, and you have built upon the sand,

(Matthew 7:24-27) Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.
---David on 1/25/19


Genesis 9:13I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

So, Steveng thinks he's going to be saved by a rainbow.

There's no guarantee Steveng will never die in a flood. Many since the flood have died in a flood without salvation even if they did put their faith in a rainbow.

And many will die in a FIRE, just as bad as a flood. My oh my, where will.the Grace of God be then? It appears ONLY CERTAIN people will escape the wrath of God.

So your definition of GRACE , not used in Genesis re the flood, is WRONG!

I believe the Grace of God which brings salvation hath appeared to all men. Titus 1:11-15. But this does not mean Universalism Steveng.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/19


The grace of God was/is given to ALL of mankind, not just to a select few. Remember the purpose of the rainbow.
---Steveng on 1/24/19


Exactly mike, because those truly under grace don't distort the doctrine of Grace. Those who don't understand grace are those who make such silly accusations. Romans 6-8 cover completely those seriously UNDER GRACE. Those who distort GRACE omit or distort Romans 6-8.

And those who suffer from ENVY as the Pharisees did toward Jesus always chipped away and spent endless hours criticizing Him.

This is what David has done here. Just because he THINKS he has to WORK for Gods unconditional love and feels you're not working like he is....is causing ENVY in him. One of the worse sins there is....BREAKING the 10th commandment...COVETING. It's also WHY Cain murdered Abel. ENVY!
---kathr4453 on 1/24/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


we are NOT under the LAW of SIN & DEATh. romans 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Sin is the transgression of the LAW. the serpent said ...you will be like GOD' & adam ate the fruit. so adam transgress the 1st four commandments.

Paul is saying do not transgress the law of God because Christ died for your sins. Do not LICENSE TO SIN bec. you are now under grace
---mike on 1/24/19


David again projecting some non-issue here. Scripture gives the definition of faith in Hebrews 11

Also those who have the faith of Abraham are the HEIRS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Romans 4:1-5.
I'm an HEIR OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH.
Hebrews 11 also show exactly the kind of FAITH God rewards.

So the Gospel according to David is something only according to David.

I'll stick with the Word of God David. I don't think it needs your commentary for anyone to understand.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/19


David, your ignorant statement only proves your ignorance. My faith is not in my left foot ...dahhhh.
Who said my faith was not on Jesus Christ who died and rose again? Romans 10:9-10.

David, your high and lofty post is so pretentious here. And the audacity of falsely accusing someone so that you can appear so "WHATEVER" well, it's your MO that Nicole and Steveng eat up.

The only problem here is you.
---kath4453 on 1/24/19


Kathryn
Your definition of Faith seems to be at issue here. Those who have faith in Jesus Christ, have faith in him as Lord and Savior. In other words, they believe if they make him their Lord, and he will be their Savior.

How do you make him Lord?
Lets ask Jesus.
(Luke 6:46) And why call ye Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Faith in Jesus Christ, as Lord and Savior, is the reason you keep his commandments. If you dont keep his commandments, he is not your Lord.

This is what Paul meant when teaching, We are saved by Grace, through Faith,...in Jesus Christ. Your Faith in Jesus, as Lord, is how your obtain Gods Grace (John 14:21)
---David on 1/24/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Stocks


Romans 8:2 For THE LAW OF the Spirit of life in CHRISTJesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Wrong again Steveng. The law stated above here, Romans 8:2 IS A NEW LAW. No one in the OT was IN CHRIST until He died and rose again. This Jesus prayed in John 17 as well.
I IN THEM AND THOU IN ME THAT WE MAY BE ONE. This is WHY those saved are no longer under any earthly laws. We're under a HEAVENLY LAW NOW. Colossians 3:1-4.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/19


I am curious about Steveng s statement that all were under the law from Adam on, and Cain broke the law and was punished and sent to NOD. Are you saying all who were not punished and sent to NOD were sinless never breaking any of the Law? So Abel NEVER broke the law? You are saying so, because he was never banished to NOD for breaking the law. OR was it only CERTAIN sins that got you banished to NOD? So why did Abel sacrifice? ...a blood sacrifice that is?

And why weren't Adam and Eve Banished to NOD?

So by the time Noah and family came along EVERYONE was banished to NOD and God sent a flood to NOD only...or what .....

Do folks even think through want they say?
---kathr4453 on 1/23/19


Kathr, there are no new laws. It's the same laws since the beginning.
---Steveng on 1/23/19


Kathr, Gen 2:17 instructed them not to eat from the tree. But remember there is a Tree of Life in the middle of the Garden. V9

Gen 3:24 we are NOT allowed to get to the Tree of Life that would SAVE us. An Angel is placed to block the garden with a SWORD. it isn't gone.

Read Rev 2:7 and 22:2 Jesus is the Vine John 15. John 6 Jesus demands that we eat Him for eternal life.

John 20:27 Then Jesus said to Thomas..Reach out your hand and put it into My side.

Undoing Adam in Gen 3:1-11

Jesus' Side was opened with a SWORD and Blood and Water came out. John 19:34 stands for the Eucharist and Baptism. Two Commands of Jesus for eternal life Mark 16:16 John 6:54,58

Remember the Tree of Life was guarded by a SWORD.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/23/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Diabetes


Under the law, whether you want Adam to have been under law, or Noah, or Moses ...whatever, the law brought DEATH is the Law of sin and death.

Jesus did fulfill the law of sin and death, when He took upon Him our sin and died in our place. He fulfilled the requirements of the JUDGEMENT of God concerning sin. NO LAW EVER BROUGHT LIFE. It brought DEATH.

Hebrews 2 show Jesus taking on the seed of Abraham, for the purpose OF DEATH.

The ONLY LAW that brings eternal life is the law of Faith. And the Law stated in Romans 8:2. Romans 8:2 can ONLY be accessed by our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life...Romans 6-8.

It's really not complicated to those saved. Very complicated to those lost.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/19


Yes Steven, and all those who murder are still sent to NOD. we see even under the Law of Moses they were absent to NOD, and today they are sent to NOD. So we are breaking Gods law by implementing the death penalty. OH OH Genesis 9:6 changed that.

We also see Romans 5: 13 say where no law sin was not imputed...so from Adam to Moses there was no law.

But other than that, We today live under a NEW LAW. Only those saved by Grace through faith that is.

Romans 8:2

2 For THE LAW of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. DEATH that entered through Adams sin regardless of any laws or no laws.

THIS LAW covers all I need . I am complete in Him.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/19


The law was even from the beginning or else Cain would not have been punished for murdering Able and lying about it - two of the commandments.
---Steveng on 1/23/19


David, the problem is, there is no more tree, and the Garden of Eden is gone. So there is no law stating not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil. If every single human was held personally to that law, then IN ADAM..NOT ALL WOULD HAVE DIED.

So with that, please read Romans 5. It covers from Adam to today, including all Jesus said.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Depression


Kathr, actually all the Laws were considered Laws by Moses in the OT and shows in the NT.

Luke 2:22 states the 'Law of Moses' in V 24 it finishes with the 'Law of the Lord'. Matthew 23:2.

Jesus is the NEW MOSES

Jesus' Transfiguration specifically tells us about the NEW EXODUS. Meaning Jesus will lead us from our sins.

Luke 9:31
who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem.
New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

BTW, I could only see the correct translation with the word 'Exodus' in the Catholic Bible. Of course I didn't look at all the Protestant Bibles.

That's why Jesus said He isn't abolishing the Law but fulfilling the Law. Matthew 5:17-18
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/23/19


David, So you believe all commandments are specifically the Laws of Moses?---kathr4453

No, Moses did not create the Law given to him, God did. God gave one commandment for Adam and Eve. Was it called the Law Of Moses?

They broke the commandment and it was called sin. If Sin is the transgression of the Law, (1 John 3:4) the Law has here from the beginning.

When Jesus talked about the Law in (Matthew 5), he was talking about the Law of God.

Nicole
I am glad, you also understand Pauls Epistles are founded on the Gospel of Christ. Teaching Paul without the Lords Gospel, is like teaching Algebra before you teach Arithmetic.
---David on 1/23/19


Long before the Old and New Covenant is the EVERLASTING COVENANT, under the law of faith only. Romans 4 and Hebrews 13:20-21 will explain. The Everlasting Covenant is the one Abel, Noah ,Abraham yes even Moses are saved by....becoming HEIRS OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH. And those who are Abrahams "spiritual seed" are The Heirs and Joint heirs with Christ...and will be Glorified together with Him if we suffer with Him Not if we keep the law.

This is the covenant I'm under...Titus 3:5-7 Eternal life that was spoken of LONG AGES AGO, all the way back to Genesis 3:15.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/19


The old covenant and the new covenant have the same laws. The only difference is that the old covenant was of a physical nature, but the new covenant is of a spiritual nature. Case in point: in the OT it was a sin to murder someone, it the NT even if you THINK about murdering someone, it's a sin. Same laws, different covenant.
---Steveng on 1/22/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Study


John used the word commandments. Though Gods commandments were called Law in the Old Testament, many believe Grace did away with the Law.

If this is true, Why are the Lords disciples still using the word commandments in the New Testament, a word which denotes Law?
---David on 1/22/19

David, So you believe all commandments is specifically the Law of. Moses? The Law of Moses was the Old Covenant. We are now under the New Covenant. 2 Corinthians 3 explain. No one under the Law was changed FROM GLORY TO GLORY BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD, under the Law of Moses.

There is also THE LAW OF FAITH, and THE LAW is not of faith. Sacrifice was also a law and commandment..Abraham, Noah, Job all obeyed that law and command.
---kathr4453 on 1/22/19


(1John 2:3,4) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.---Samuelbb7

John used the word commandments. Though Gods commandments were called Law in the Old Testament, many believe Grace did away with the Law.

If this is true, Why are the Lords disciples still using the word commandments in the New Testament, a word which denotes Law?
---David on 1/22/19


Genesis 6:8 says Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord. Hagar and her son also found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Noah and his family didn't just FIND GRACE in the eyes of the Lord.....but would appear were just about the only family of 8 left in the world who worshipped God and did not participate in the evil going on around them. Genesis 6. And Hebrews 11:7 finish telling us that it was Noah's FAITH in action that qualified him to become an HEIR of the righteousness which is by FAITH.

Many in the OT are said to have found grace in Gods eyes, or someone's eyes, but says NOTHING about then becoming an HEIR OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS BY FAITH AKA SALVATION...the eternal life kind of salvation.
---kathr4453 on 1/22/19


I'm sure Cornelius found some kind of grace in Gods eyes....after all God responded to the report that there was someone down here seeking Him, but God still had to send Peter to bring the Gospel to Cornelius for THAT KIND OF SAVING GRACE.
---kath4453 on 1/22/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Verses


Kathr wrote: "What verse says the grace of God saved Noah and his family?"

Don't read the bible like you read my post. You'll learn more.

Genesis 6:8
---Steveng on 1/21/19


Grace is the unmerited favor of GOD bestowed on us because of his love.

Grace is not a licence to live in sin.

Law cannot save. For the job of the law is to show us we are sinners and tell us what is a sin. Such as lying is a sin.

Those who love GOD and love others will hate sin. Those who love sin are not saved.1John 2:3,4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/21/19


Stevens, maybe Gods graciousness was, but could anyone in the OT claim this....Romans 6 "Shall we continue to sin that GRACE may abound..God forbid. How is it who died to sin still live in it?"

Or Galatians 2:21....For if righteousness comes by keeping the law Christ died in vain...YE have fallen from Grace.

So the argument here is....was there any UNDER GRACE, or, aka Crucified with Christ in the OT?

I have a different understanding of GRACE in the NT. And I believe MANY scriptures point NT Grace to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. You Should REREAD Romans 5 And THEN read Romans 6 to get the NT definition of GRACE.
---kathr4453 on 1/21/19


Flinging grace IN GODS EYES were already men OF FAITH in the first place. Joseph found grace in Pharoah's eyes...but does that mean Pharoah secured eternal life for Joseph? NO?

Nowhere in the NT is "grace" associated with IN THINE EYES. And nowhere were ungodly men said to have grace in anyone's eyes in the OT. YET the NT says it is God who JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY. You would think God would only Justify those He found Grace in His eyes for....NOP.

God justified those who put their faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ...Romans 4:23-5:9 are those who have ACCESS INTO "THIS GRACE " IN WHICH WE STAND.

Totally different GRACE here Steveng.
---kath4453 on 1/21/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Arthritis


There is only ONE Grace.

You have to have Grace before you have Faith.

So every Christian is Saved by Grace through Faith.

Are you saying there are different Graces?
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/21/19


What verse says the grace of God saved Noah and his family? Who is making up verses not in scripture? What do we call those who make up religions and beliefs based on rewriting and defining scripture.

Hebrews 11:7 say no such thing. No OT says the Grace of God saved Noah. Just as Rehab and family were SAVED, also stated in Hebrews and James and Joshua show her faith in God saved her and her family.

Please REREAD Hebrews 11:6.
---kat453 on 1/21/19


David: Stay out of Pauls epistles until you know what Jesus taught, then Paul might begin to make sense to you.//

David I think you are the only one besides me that can't understand people putting Paul's epistles ABOVE Jesus' Words.

It's is so frustrating when some use Paul to debate away Jesus' Commands.

Why would Paul contradict Jesus' Words?

Plus, who would put Paul's epistles in the Bible if they thought Paul are speaking about another salvation?

They did because Paul didn't contradict Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 1/21/19


Kathr, God's grace was for all of man throughout all of history. Why do you suppose the grace of God saved Noah and his family? Genesis 6:8 tells of Noah finding "favor in the eyes of the Lord."

Exodus 33 tells of Moses having said to have found favor with God five times.

God's grace was also to Gideon, Samuel, David, Esther, Ezra. And in Jeremiah 31:31-34 , the passage about the new covenant is enough of a statement about the grace of God.
---Steveng on 1/21/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Asthma


Israel was not UNDER Grace in the OT. They were UNDER the Law.

You can't be UNDER BOTH, as Galatians so eloquently explain.
---kathr4453 on 1/21/19


How is grace used in the Old Testament? For instance, concerning Moses?
---Steveng on 1/20/19


Yes Josef, and rather than repeating, I covered that UNDER a different thread. I totally agree. But the WORD UNDER is not used in those verses. Being UNDER GRACE I believe.covers that to the fullest. I love 2 Peter 1, Peter stating ADD TO YOUR FAITH....

Even Paul States in Romans 12:1-2 "I beseech thee" ....

The Word he uses shows no force of any law.

Adding a word to scripture one might find innocent I find changes the text. I simply do not add words to make it fit my personal commentary.
---kathr4453 on 1/20/19


Grace is indeed shown in Romans 6. Those who are saved don't live in sin. The job of the law is to tell us we are sinners and what is a sin. It is not it's job to save us. Romans 3:20, 31

Those who are in Grace are not living in sin. They walk in love not hate. The Ten Commandments are about love.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1John 2:3,4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/20/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Cholesterol


Thank you wivv shown Jesus fulfilled the law. UNDER the law was also the promise of the earthly kingdom reign, and it absolutely will be fulfilled at Jesus second comeing. But only Jesus can FULFIll this.

Those saved by GRACE ARE "UNDER GRACE". Those who dont understand GRACE, are those who make up rules to add to GRACE.

NO scripture says we are UNDER Any laws. GRACE completely covers any misconceptions one feels God overlooked stating it's not enough to keep me on the straight and narrow.
GRACE is defined in Romans 6. Or DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT?
---kathr4453 on 1/20/19


The ultimate commandment / law of Christ is LOVE - as in the verb form.

God's grace is simply having mercy upon his creation. Writing his law on stone didn't do any good so he sent his son. Jesus fulfilled the law by performing, by doing, by living the law - and look where it got him. Every person on earth has the opportunity to fulfill the law, but since we are only "human" that is difficult. God is populating his kingdom with people who have true love within their hearts - true love as in the verb form.

The hearts of man is growing colder each day as we approach Christ's second coming.
---Steveng on 1/20/19


(Matthew 5:18-19) For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandmentsand shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven, but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Kathryn
Jesus taught, until Heaven and Earth have passed away, we will have Gods Law. Could we be having this conversation, if Heaven and Earth have passed away?

Stay out of Pauls epistles until you know what Jesus taught, then Paul might begin to make sense to you.
---David on 1/20/19


Copyright© 2017 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.