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qquestions that were never answered:

1. Strongaxe never answered why Gen 1:1-2, John and Revelationsare not be regarded as Scripture.

2. Cluny never could show church fathers who believed that themselves gave the world the bible and believed they were, "Theopneustos."

3. Strongaxe believ that Laodicea should be Scripture but could never answer why.

4. Strongaxe nor Monk Brendan never showed a scholar who believed the NT was complete in the Second Century???

Cluny and Strongaxe no not what and why they claim to believe what they believe...
---john9346 on 3/14/19


Melody:

amen...

Hopefully this dialog with Cluny and Strongaxe has been very revealing so we can all plead with God to save these 2 men before their last moments on this earth...

What I thought was very telling was how Strongaxe couldn't answer the questions and he believes that the Koran and the Book of Mormon are no different then the 4 gospels, what a heresy...
---john9346 on 3/14/19


\\
Christianity is a lifestyle, not a member of some denominational "church" each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Is Christ divided?\\

Does this include the denominational "church" of Steveng, with your own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretation of the Bible?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/13/19


Christianity is a lifestyle, not a member of some denominational "church" each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible. Is Christ divided?

Christianity is an individual lifestyle based upon the ultimate commandment spoken of by Jesus: LOVE (as in the verb form). True love from the heart is the ticket to heaven. The bible is full of examples of HOW to love unfortunately love today has practically evaporated from the face of this world. Love which hangs to two commandments jesus spoke of which hangs the ten commandments which hang the 613 laws of Moses which hangs all the laws of the OT prophets.
---Steveng on 3/13/19


john9346:

I ask for the SEVENTH TIME:

You claim to believe in "Sola Scriptura" - i.e. everything we need to know about our faith we can determine from scripture alone, yet this requires that we actually know what IS scripture, and what is NOT. So, for the SEVENTH TIME, I ask: how do YOU know which scriptural books YOU can safely base your doctrines on? I would figure that this would be an extremely vital thing for you to know.


Melody:

You talk about "Those here that constantly contradict THE TRUE WORD OF GOD". Instead of just making veiled insinuations, why don't you point out EXACTLY who those people are, and EXACTLY which parts of the Word of God they contradict, and when, and how?
---StrongAxe on 3/13/19




John:

Those here that constantly contradict THE TRUE WORD OF GOD . . . yes . . they can't give proof of what they are saying against IT but they persist in doing that because they are under the possession of a false doctrine that makes them adversaries of THE TRUTH - better to leave them alone - why waste your time and efforts on those who clearly are revolting against GOD'S WORD?
---Melody on 3/12/19


strongaxe said, "I can't say, exactly, I am not claiming there is some kind of "obvious" separation between what actually is divinely-inspired scripture, and what is not."
---john9346 on 3/13/19


strongaxe said, "I can't say, exactly, I am not claiming there is some kind of "obvious" separation between what actually is divinely-inspired scripture, and what is not."
---john9346 on 3/13/19


Tell me which ones denied this, john.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/12/19


john9346:

I can't say, exactly, I am not claiming there is some kind of "obvious" separation between what actually is divinely-inspired scripture, and what is not. You, however, because you insist on Sola Scriptura - i.e. that scripture is NECESSARILY the only thing sufficient to determine our faith, it is vital to know exactly what writings are, and are not, scripture - otherwise, how can you base your faith on them?

I have asked you at least six times now what criteria YOU use to tell the difference, but I have yet to hear an adequate answer. You keep mentioning "church fathers", but their beliefs are just "tradition", which you say you reject. State those "logical fact" you refer to.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/19




strongaxe said, "I don't think so, but I base that on my own subjective interpretation, and on that of early church tradition."

So what in your subjective interpretation that leads you to dismiss Laodicea as Scripture and can you explain what did Church Tradition tthat resulted in Laodicea being rejected???
---john9346 on 3/11/19


cluny said, "John, tradition is the lens by which we focus the light of Scripture where it does the most good.
It is also how we know which writings are canonical."

Name a Church father or fathers who taught this (canon, chapter, paragraph)???
---john9346 on 3/11/19


Hello Readers:

Notice how Strongaxe and cluny cant give us a singgle scholar or scholars, church fathers or councils who taught that they created the bible and that they were, "Theopneustos."

It is very ironic how these 2 men have chosen to set themselves out to destroy the faith of those who have a foundation in Scritpure,yet, through out this dialog they don't even know what and why they believe what they believe...

Why would anyone give up assurance based on logic facts and reason to follow these 2 men driven by mere presumption and intuition...
---john9346 on 3/11/19


john, tradition is the lens by which we focus the light of Scripture where it does the most good.

It is also how we know which writings are canonical.

Why do you accept them, john?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/11/19


john9346:

You wrote: So right here right now in front of all should Laodicea be added among Mathew Mark Luke and John as Scripture yes or no??

I don't think so, but I base that on my own subjective interpretation, and on that of early church tradition. You, on the other hand, reject church tradition and subjective interpretations, so I want to know why **YOU** would reject it, while also accepting John, despite the fact that scripture itself provides more corroboration for Laodiceans (i.e. Paul mentioned it), but none for John.
---StrongAxe on 3/8/19


strongaxe said, "I never argued that they SHOULD."

So right here right now in front of all should Laodicea be added among Mathew Mark Luke and John as Scripture yes or no??

Strongaxe:

Church Tradition is your position not mine I don't have to defend what's not my stance you do and so far your embarrassing yourself.

BTW, there are many postings of me answering your objections so now how about answering mine unless you cant???
---john9346 on 3/8/19


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strongaxe said, "their choices are based on subjective criteria rather than divinely-laid out objective ones."

Really? proove it??
---john9346 on 3/8/19


john9346:

I never argued that they SHOULD. It was a reductio ad absurdum argument to show that *YOU* have no valid reason to reject them from being scripture, without having some scriptural basis for doing so (and since nothing in the Bible says they are NOT scripture), you must have some other criterion for deciding that they aren't. I've asked you on numerous occasions to show such unambiguous criteria, yet you have not yet done so.

I keep asking name one just 1 church father or council who can support

Hello? You, who keep dismissing church tradition as being irrelevant, are asking to use church tradition for corroboration? Please make up your mind!
---StrongAxe on 3/7/19


Cluny:

My point was not to quibble over who accepted the Apocrypha, but to emphasize the fact that some Christians accept it while others do not - i.e. their choices are based on subjective criteria rather than divinely-laid out objective ones.

Qur'an 2:97 claims Gabriel revealed it:
Say, "Whoever is hostile to Gabriel - it is he who revealed it to your heart by God's leave, confirming what preceded it, and guidance and good news for the believers.

Unfortunately, I could never read much of BoM, and quickly put it down out of boredom (even after a few attempts) so I can't cite any specific quotes.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/19


strongaxe said, "I never claimd Laodiceans SHOULD be part of the bible, but I keep asking YOU why it shouldn't be in there, yet you have never provided a reasonable answer."

Sir, if you don't think it shouldn't be Scripture then why are you arguing that it should be Scripture??? (Logically Inconsistent)


strongaxe said, "church tradition decided which books are scripture and which aren't."

Is this true? proove it to us I keep asking name one just 1 church father or council who can support (facts, evidence) once again its illogical to believe something that has no facts or evidence...

Cite, canon, paragraph, chapter
---john9346 on 3/7/19


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strongaxe:


So i can understand your position why should Laodicea be regarded as Scripture??

Do you regard the Koran and the Book of Mormon and the 4 gospels as the same as Scripture yes or no?
---john9346 on 3/7/19


cluny said, "Melody, are you so deluded that you actually think that you have God's discerning Spirit?"

If her question afends you its only because you and Strongaxe are engaging in Logical Fallacies like strongaxe implying that the BOM and Koran are Scripture along with Laodicea with no proof...

He claims he read Laodicea,yet, he doesn't no why it should be like the Book of John???

Cluny said, "All the pre-reformation Churches accept the Apocrypha."

Proove it...
---john9346 on 3/7/19


Cluny:

Your own insulting words - apply them to yourself - returned they are to you!

You are the one under delusion - as your attacks against me and others standing up for GOD'S WORD is the same tactic that the 'liar/the enemy and destroyer' of the souls use to attack those who are firm and solid under THE TRUTH that is only through THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND GOD'S PURE GOSPEL OF SALVATION!

You can keep on accusing me all you want and that because of your own distorted beliefs that cannot be accepted by THE LORD - and in deep trouble you are and that before HIM - 'cause a rebellious spirit that comes against HIS WORD - HE won't accept - idolatrous doctrines separate the souls from GOD - repent!
---Melody on 3/7/19


\\Catholics accept Apocrypha while Protestants do not.\\

All the pre-reformation Churches accept the Apocrypha.

StrongAxe, can you provide appropriate quotes where the BoM and Coran claim they are from God?

Melody, are you so deluded that you actually think that you have God's discerning Spirit?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/7/19


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Melody:

I NEVER said Mormon or the Qur'an WERE the Word of God. I asked john9346 how **HE** knows John IS scripture, while Laodiceans, Mormon, and Qur'an are NOT. He must have SOME objective criterion to tell what is scripture and what isn't, but has yet to say what it is. He believes in "scripture only" and rejects church tradition, church tradition decided which books are scripture and which aren't.

You constantly shoot accusations from the hip without reading carefully what is actually said, to see if your accusations are warranted. You keep falsely accusing me of rejecting The Gospel. I do not - just the false image of me you create in your mind (by reading things between the lines I never wrote) does so.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/19


john9346:

I never claimd Laodiceans SHOULD be part of the bible, but I keep asking YOU why it shouldn't be in there, yet you have never provided a reasonable answer.

If you base your decision on what the book actually says, that requires human judgment to decide whether it's appropriate or not - and this is why different churches have differing ideas of whether certain books are canonical or not, e.g. Catholics accept Apocrypha while Protestants do not. Can you show any OBJECTIVE criteria that uneqivocally says one or the other? I doubt you can.

Book of Mormon and the Koran are in themselves statements that they aren't from the God of the Bible...

Then you haven't read them, as both claim that they are.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/19


Axe:

Your own words tell where you are spiritually: If you were saved by THE LORD dwelling in your heart and GOD'S DISCERNING SPIRIT - you would know that those cults can't at all be related to GOD'S WORD - for they teach blasphemous beliefs against THE LORD'S DEITY AND ONLY WAY to salvation, abominable teachings as it is idolatry and pagan religions that are leading the souls to eternal perdition!

What a shame that you keep on rejecting The Gospel and being partaker of promoting your own religion beliefs and others as well, that only will lead you to separation from GOD if you voluntarily have given yourself to reject THE TRUTH and that by staying in the spiritual darkness that you are!
---Melody on 3/7/19


we have a copy of God's originals. the book of mormon is a man made document. how can yu believe God the father was a man on another PLANET one day, and that he waS so good he became a God of his own planet, and quens in heaven,not to mention , magical glasses, and joe smith, KRAY KRAY!
---tim on 3/7/19


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strongaxe said, "I can't PROVE that they aren't, by EXACTLY the same logic, you can't PROVE Laodiceans, the Book of Mormon, and the Qur'an aren't scripture either."

But sir again its your position that the bible isn't Self Authenticating not mine your making assertion without any evidence, what your doing is illogical like saying the Mississippi River can talk i'm sure of it and when ask to give proof none can be found (very illogical).

Now that you read Laodicea tell us why should it be added to be Scripture??

Book of Mormon and the Koran are in themselves statements that they aren't from the God of the Bible...
---john9346 on 3/6/19


cluny said, "Furthermore, it was the Orthodox Church, not the sect you frequent, who decided what should be in the NT.

To be more precise, it was the Orthodox Church that was used by God to define the NT canon."

Cluny, just give me 1 just 1 Church Father who believed, taught, and defended such foolishness that they themselves were, "Theopneustos."

Give chapter, paragraph, canon...
---john9346 on 3/6/19


strongaxe:

If you have read Laodicea, give 3 reason why it should be Scripture??

If you have read the Book of Mormon the Koran give 3 reasons why it should be on equal part with the bible and be considered Scripture??

Respectfully, through out this dialog i'd have become disappointed in you (so much assertions with no facs or evidence) you do know this is illogical??
---john9346 on 3/6/19


\\First you never raised 2 Tim 3:16-17 until I now asked for clarification???\\

Yes, I did, because you did.

Furthermore, it was the Orthodox Church, not the sect you frequent, who decided what should be in the NT.

To be more precise, it was the Orthodox Church that was used by God to define the NT canon.

Or do you think that the Word of God came to you alone?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/19


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john9346:

You wrote: Proove that God didn't provide a list of Books? Can you show us that Gen 1:1-2, Rev 22, and John aren't Scripture??

I can't PROVE that they aren't, by EXACTLY the same logic, you can't PROVE Laodiceans, the Book of Mormon, and the Qur'an aren't scripture either.

Surely you must have SOME criterion to decide exactly what is scripture and what isn't. I ask you again, what criteria do YOU use?

I read Laodiceans. You miss the point. If you decide whether something is scripture or not BASED ON ITS CONTENT, then you're using YOUR OWN FALLIBLE HUMAN WISDOM to decide it.
---StrongAxe on 3/5/19


cluny said, "
As for what St. Paul said that you've lost track of, it's "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." And at the time St. Paul wrote this, there was only the OT that was recognized."

First you never raised 2 Tim 3:16-17 until I now asked for clarification???

So, Cluny do you reject the New Testament as being not from God?


Show us all here where the councils did as you assert (canon, paragraph)

Its astounding not a singgle bit of facts, evidence from neither you, Strongaxe, Nicole, nor Monk Brendan...
---john9346 on 3/5/19


john, then tell us WHICH were the first councils to give a list of NT books that we receive today. If Sardica and Nicaea 1 were not them, then which councils did so?

As for what St. Paul said that you've lost track of, it's "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." And at the time St. Paul wrote this, there was only the OT that was recognized.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/5/19


Praise God, the Pulmonologist isn't too concern with the honeycombing in both lungs.
(He suggested no one should go to the internet for medical instruction or knowledge)

I do have a nodule but he doesn't think its cancerous. I will have another CT Scan in 6 months to see if it increases.

Thank you for all your prayers.
---Nicole_Lacey on 3/5/19


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strongaxe said, "
Index: a specific list of which books should be included in scripture. Without such a list provided by God, there is no scriptural way to determine which books are scripture, and which are not."

Proove that God didn't provide a list of Books? Can you show us that Gen 1:1-2, Rev 22, and John aren't Scripture??

Have you ever taken the time to read Laodicea yes or no?

Cite these scholars you are referencing??

I don't hold the position that the church decided books thats yours and so far not a singgle bit of evidence??
---john9346 on 3/4/19


cluny said, "And just WHICH Bible book gives a list of all the inspired writings, as you said to StrongAxe?"

Actually if read responses, Strongaxe said that the bible gives no authenticity to itself so i'm waiting for him to please show us all here that to be the truth...

I'm asking Strongaxe to show that Gen 1:1-2, Rev 22, and John aren't Scripture??

As long as you both have been using this objectin you should be able to like Second Nature give me some proof some where???
---john9346 on 3/4/19


Cluny:

"I think it was the local Council of Sardica that was the first to list the NT books as we accept them today."

wrong

"This was ratified by the First Council of Nicea."

Wrong again

"
And just whom did God work through to show which writings were "theopnevstos" and which were not?"

Why don't you Tell us and give proof?

"When St. Paul wrote this, there was just what we call the OT today."

When St. Paul wrote what sir?
---john9346 on 3/4/19


john9346:

Index: a specific list of which books should be included in scripture. Without such a list provided by God, there is no scriptural way to determine which books are scripture, and which are not.

For the third time: what criteria do YOU use to know that John IS scripture, but Laodiceans is NOT? The fact that "the Church generally accepted it" is not an adequate answer, because the Church was just a bunch of men with a concensus, which proves MY point.

You asked for 3 reasons. I can give at least one: Paul specifically refers to Laodiceans, while NOBODY refers to the Gospel of John at all.

Scholars generally agree that Revelation was written around 96. It itself contains no date information.
---StrongAxe on 3/4/19


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I think it was the local Council of Sardica that was the first to list the NT books as we accept them today.

This was ratified by the First Council of Nicea.

Oddly enough, the Armenian Church did not accept Revelation until the 1700s or so, even though this is the only church that still uses the anathemata at the end of the Creed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/19


\\What Monk Brendan, Strongaxe, Cluny, and Nicole fails to understand is that Scripture is, "Theopneustos." not a church or council.\\

And just whom did God work through to show which writings were "theopnevstos" and which were not?

When St. Paul wrote this, there was just what we call the OT today.

There are other writings by the Apostles, such as his letter to Laodicea, which are not in the Bible. Why is this?

And just WHICH Bible book gives a list of all the inspired writings, as you said to StrongAxe?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/19


strongaxe:

First, your making the claim not me i'm simply asking you to substantiate your claim. What is your def of "Index."

So, show to us how Gen 1:1-2, Rev 22, and John isn't Scripture??

Give 3 reasons why Laodidian Epistle should be regarded as Scripture??
---john9346 on 3/4/19


strongaxe said, "Curious, as Revelation is estimated as being written in 96. How do YOU know the bible was complete? Show chapter and verse for when the canon was closed. You can't, because there is no such scripture."

Strongaxe who said AD 96 cite source (give 2)?

I'm not the one making the claim regarding the Bible's Insufficiency you are and all your doing is making assertions after assertion and not a singgle supporting fact or evidence.
---john9346 on 3/4/19


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strongaxe said, "so youre assertion that it wasn't "in full status" until 12th-13th century is way off."

Sir, give proof that i'm way off (source, facts, evidence) all your doing is making claims??

List 3 church fathers who fully taught what RC and EOC teach today from the 2, 3th, and 4th Century (cite chapter and paragraph) so we can read for ourselves??

strongaxe, its illogical to make assertions and provide not a bit of (reason, rationalization) for such assertions...
---john9346 on 3/4/19


John, the crazy thing is that you don't have ANY HISTORY backing up your desires in your wanna be Faith.

And you KNOW it!
---Nicole_Lacey on 3/4/19


john9346:

You wrote: Proove this to us all that, "No bible book has an index of books God considers scripture."

That's a totally ridiculous request. 125 words is insufficient for me to enumerate every verse in the Bible and show it does not contain an index. "Genesis 1:1. No index. Genesis 1:2. No index. ... Reveleation 22. No index." On the other hand, if the Bible DID contain an index, it would be easy for you to show where it is. I invite you to try, and good luck with that.

I invite you to show EXACTLY how we know John is scripture while the epistle to the Laodiceans is not. In fact, Paul himself REFERENCES that epistle. Why is it not scripture?
---StrongAxe on 3/4/19


john9346:

There was a unified church that split into eastern (Orthodox) and western (Catholic) halves in 1054, and it had been around for a long time before that, so youre assertion that it wasn't "in full status" until 12th-13th century is way off.

Curious, as Revelation is estimated as being written in 96. How do YOU know the bible was complete? Show chapter and verse for when the canon was closed. You can't, because there is no such scripture. But regardless of when that happened, the fact remains that the only scriptures available were hand-copied manuscripts, and most of those copies were made by monks down through the centuries.
---StrongAxe on 3/4/19


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strongaxe said, "You believe in the absolute authority of scripture, but how do YOU know what words are actually scripture and what aren't? No bible book has an index of books God considers scripture.

Proove this to us all that, "No bible book has an index of books God considers scripture."

strongaxe said, "Because some CHURCH councils debated that and made a decision!

Is that true name to everyone here 1 council and the name of the canon where you assert that they did as you claim
---john9346 on 3/3/19


strongaxe said, "
Name centuries? Seriously?! Catholicism started in 2-4th century and Protestantism in 16th, so bibles were hand copied by CATHOLICS for 12-14 centuries."

First the bible was complete long before the Second Century Church Fathers were relying on Scripture as early as AD 90 long before monasticism became practice...

Next, Roman Catholicism wasn't in full status until 12th-13th century if you assert 2-4 century proove it my friend???

I want to see this :-)
---john9346 on 3/3/19


What Monk Brendan, Strongaxe, Cluny, and Nicole fails to understand is that Scripture is, "Theopneustos." not a church or council.

Not one council ever believed, taught, or defended the idea that they gave the world the bible or that they were, "Theopneustos." Such an idea in that date would have been worthy of Physical Death (Utter Heresy)

What Monk Brendan, Cluny, Strongaxe, and Nicole are asking us all to do is to commit heresy and to put words in the mouths of men who would have never conceived of such blasphemy...
---john9346 on 3/3/19


John: its like you trying to justify idolatry using Num 21:4-9 when 2 Kings 18:4 condemns what you practice.//

Be a man and admit you CAN'T explain why the SAME statue wasn't worshiped by the 1st set of Israelis in Numbers, but is in 2 Kings.

I am surprised by you. When you are confused or wrong you can't say so and apologize.

Spinning the question means you KNOW Catholics are not worshipping the statues.

Beside that Protestants broke up the 1st Commandment into 2 which was ridiculous. They both means the same thing.

That's like breaking up the 4th into 2 :

4th
Honor your father and mother.

5th:
Don't disrespect your parents
---Nicole_Lacey on 3/3/19


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monk Brendan said, "
And John, you are wrong! Which Christians are you talking about? Remember, the NT Scriptures simply did not exist until at least 50-90 years AFTER the Resurrection!"
So what dating are you stating?? Be specific...

In addition, monasticism didn't become practice until about the Fourth or Fifth ?Century Scriptures were surely known by then example Justin Irenaeus and Ignatius of Antioch were quoting Scriptures (no monks)
---john9346 on 3/3/19


John9346 said, "Strongaxe your presupposition is very flawed sir long before monks Christians knew the full canon read, studied, and defended against heresy using The Scripture..."

And John, you are wrong! Which Christians are you talking about? Remember, the NT Scriptures simply did not exist until at least 50-90 years AFTER the Resurrection!

And the monks were not writing doctrine. They were copying the Bible, not making innovations. That way, the Bible you were reading in Antioch was the same as in Jerusalem.
---Monk_Brendan on 3/3/19


john9346:

Virtually nothing in the world is that black and white. The same logic says "If you add another authority (e.g. Constitution) along with Law, you don't believe in Law", which is absurd, because laws derives from the Constitution.

You believe in the absolute authority of scripture, but how do YOU know what words are actually scripture and what aren't? No bible book has an index of books God considers scripture. How do YOU know Matthew and 1 John are scripture but Laodiceans isn't? Because some CHURCH councils debated that and made a decision!

Name centuries? Seriously?! Catholicism started in 2-4th century and Protestantism in 16th, so bibles were hand copied by CATHOLICS for 12-14 centuries.
---StrongAxe on 3/3/19


Nicole:

You and strongaxe must proove in every century for 2000 years that monks save the Scriptures???

My question for the both of you is when did monasticism begin?

Nicole, actually when your Sola Scriptura your Tota Scriptura meaning all of Scripture but since you don't believe in Scripture respectfully you and Cluny both don't understand...

Its like you trying to justify idolatry using Num 21:4-9 when 2 Kings 18:4 condemns what you practice...
---john9346 on 3/3/19


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\\Strongaxe, if you add another authority along with Scripture then you don't believe in Scripture my friend. EOC and Rc both believe they gave the world the bible \\

john, do you actually think that YOUR church gave the world the Bible?

Or do you think it dropped down out of heaven already written?

Who do you think God worked through to make clear what should be in it to start with?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/3/19


John, StrongAxe is correct. Irish Monks saved the Bible you cherish more than anything in this world.

Acknowledging their efforts won't change your Protestantism.

Read 'How the Irish Saved Civilization' by Chuck Colson

While Europe was going down in flames Ireland was safe from the Barbarians.

Cluny, you are so right. They claim the Bible is the final Authority UNTIL you give an interpretation not agreeable to their thinking.

THEN you are have to accept their 'interpretation' of the Bible they believe is the FINAL Authority for them but not you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 3/3/19


strongaxe said, "Catholics and Orthodox believe scripture comes from God, but God also gave authority to the Church, who has final authority on interpreting scripture."

Strongaxe, if you add another authority along with Scripture then you don't believe in Scripture my friend. EOC and Rc both believe they gave the world the bible

The church is not, "Theopneustos." Scripture Alone is "Theopneustos."
---john9346 on 3/3/19


strongaxe said, "The Catholic Church was custodian of scripture for centuries in the first place, because without their monks copying and recopying scripture for those centuries, Protestants wouldn't have any scriptures to revere in the first place. Many Protestants seem willing to totally discard a millennium and a half of Church history and tradition, merely because it doesn't suit their tastes.



Strongaxe can you name those centuries for us sir?
---john9346 on 3/3/19


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cluny said, "Wrong again, john, as in everything you say about Orthodoxy in general and me in particular."

No, your wrong my friend listen...

"It is from the Church that the Bible ultimately derives its authority, for it was the Church which originally decided which books form a part of Holy Scripture, and it is the Church alone which can interpret Holy Scripture with authority."
Ware, Timothy
The Orthodox Church page 199
---john9346 on 3/3/19


strongaxe said, "I just said Protestants have "THE TRUE WORD OF GOD" because Catholic monks faithfully copied bible manuscripts for a thousand and a half years befor Protestantism even existed."

Strongaxe your presupposition is very flawed sir long before monks Christians knew the full canon read, studied, and defended against heresy using The Scripture...
---john9346 on 3/3/19


In my experience, Protestants don't really believe that Scripture is the final authority.

They believe that their own individual interpretation IS the final authority.

\\I no longer plan to dialog\\

Don't go back on your promise and break my heart, Melody.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/1/19


\\adding that sacrilegious, idolatrous writing into the original one\\

Be specific, Melody. Just what "idolatrous writing" did those nasty old monks add to the Bible?

\\As anEastern Orthodox he doesn't believe in the Scriptures\\

Wrong again, john, as in everything you say about Orthodoxy in general and me in particular.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/1/19


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Melody:

You keep taking what people say, reading stuff between the lines they never said, then condemning them for that. I never said I agreed with Catholic teachings. I just said Protestants have "THE TRUE WORD OF GOD" because Catholic monks faithfully copied bible manuscripts for a thousand and a half years befor Protestantism even existed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sacrilegious, idolatrous writing". If you men the Apocrypha, that was in the original copy of the KJV, and also in the Septuagint (LXX) Greek translation that was the scripture circulated in the Roman empire. Jesus and his apostles quoted from LXX - in places where LXX and Hebrew differ slightly, the NT follows LXX, not Hebrew.
---StrongAxe on 3/1/19


Melody: How can you be mentioning someone else as an 'intercessor' for healing? - only THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE INTERCESSOR to go to and when you defiantly and openly believe that and promote it//

Hello?

It's ironic that you are upset with Cluny but not with this blog.

I am asking you all to be the 'intercessors' for me, but Cluny can't add one more person that he knows is in Heaven?

You all DON'T practice what you preacher.

Matthew 7:3-5

Thanks Cluny, I never heard of St. Nectarios
---Nicole_Lacey on 3/1/19


John:

Thank you for your words and advice - I no longer plan to dialog with them because it's not only blasphemous but insane the way they go from one belief to the other and the most offensive it is, how they deny bluntly The Scriptures . . . as you would read Cluny is denying what THE LORD in HIS WORD mentions about idolatry and that "those who worship idols - cannot enter GOD'S Kingdom" - and as he openly in rebellion keeps on sharing his belief in praying to the 'saints' as mediators: May THE LORD bring them to repentance if there's hope for them - as for they have heard GOD'S WORD over and over again and they have put it aside - they don't realize the horrible spiritual dungeon where they are!
---Melody on 3/1/19


Axe:

You are totally wrong defending a religion that yes, long time ago their monks spent time writing, but shamefully and under deception and spiritual rebellion - adding that sacrilegious, idolatrous writing into the original ones and Protestants of course, they won't accept -as they as true Christians are following THE TRUE WORD OF GOD and faithful to IT'S TEACHING!


Obvious it is, that this religion that you defend and others, isn't under the inspiration of GOD'S SPIRIT as they totally disregard THE LORD'S SOVEREIGNITY AND ADMONITIONS against those from the dark teachings that they have put multitudes of souls away from salvation and Eternal life - agreeing with that - your own loss!
---Melody on 3/1/19


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john9346:

This site is for discussion of Christian issues, not for propagandizing and proselyting people to one's own personal doctrinal beliefs, so how is Cluny WRONG for not promoting Orthodox doctrines?

Catholics and Orthodox believe scripture comes from God, but God also gave authority to the Church, who has final authority on interpreting scripture. The Catholic Church was custodian of scripture for centuries in the first place, because without their monks copying and recopying scripture for those centuries, Protestants wouldn't have any scriptures to revere in the first place. Many Protestants seem willing to totally discard a millennium and a half of Church history and tradition, merely because it doesn't suit their tastes.
---StrongAxe on 2/28/19


Melody:

Cluny claims to be Eastern Orthodox I say claim because he doesn't concern himself with the promotion of the Eastern Orthodox Church Doctrines here on this blog...

As anEastern Orthodox he doesn't believe in the Scriptures for Cluny as well as Nicole Brendan, and Reuben the church is their authority not, "Holy Scripture."

Just informing so you can be aware as you seek to dialog with these individuals...
---john9346 on 2/28/19


\\How can you be mentioning someone else as an 'intercessor' for healing? \\

You mean you don't ask others to pray for you, Melody?

\\ "Those who worship idols - cannot enter HIS KINGDOM" \\

Is this another one of your home made Bible verses, Melody?

At least I don't confuse myself with God, like you seem to do, Melody.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/28/19


Cluny:

How can you be mentioning someone else as an 'intercessor' for healing? - only THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS THE INTERCESSOR to go to and when you defiantly and openly believe that and promote it - you are putting yourself in terrible spiritual danger you don't want to recognize that: Again THE LORD is giving you an opportunity to repent from this blasphemous doctrine of praying to 'saints' (whoever they are - it is idolatry) - but seems that you are so possessed by this false doctrine and in disobedience to GOD'S WORD and what's abominable to THE LORD: "Those who worship idols - cannot enter HIS KINGDOM" - that you don't even fear when THE LORD calls you to eternity? - Repent and be saved now!
---Melody on 2/28/19


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May God have mercy on you and heal you.

St. Nectarios is a powerful intercessor for such ailments.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/27/19


"Please pray for me." Done " May God's Will be done. Always
---josef on 2/27/19


May God make me strong in His Will. May I be one of the sheep in Matthew 25.

Melody, I know you are already praying for me. Please continue. Thanks!
---Nicole_Lacey on 2/27/19


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