ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Jesus With Taxes

Those who believe Jesus was okay with paying taxes. Please explain these Passages: Luke 23:1-2Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.

Join Our Free Penpals and Take The Financial Bible Quiz
 ---Nicole_Lacey on 4/22/19
     Helpful Blog Vote (3)

Post a New Blog



StrongAxe: It funds research grants to pay private companies to do it.//

Really?

That's the Government doing research.

We give stipulations on HOW, WHY and HOW LONG the grant will support the research.

In other words, the research could not function WITHOUT the grant.

As the Pell Grant. I wouldn't have gone to college without the Government's support.

Thus, I had to follow their RULES if I wanted to use the grants. Including which schools.

//..."wasted government money" is choking on gnats.//

It is a chicken bone. It costs over 3 millions over a decade.--ThoughtCo

Do you know how many houses it could provide for the many homeless people that would last over 50 years?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/14/19


Nicole_Lacey:

The government doesn't do research. It funds research grants to pay private companies to do it.

Check out NPR article on "shrimp on treadmills". The money went to several projects on several different species. They wanted to see how shrimp responded to changes in water quality (i.e. the same water we and everybody else drink), which makes it relevant. The first treadmill was free, and the second cost $1000, so singling this out as "wasted government money" is choking on gnats.

Obama could have stopped if he wish.

And BUSH could have NOT STARTED it if he wished. He WAS president and he HAD veto power. This is why the buck stops in the Oval Office, not in the Capitol.
---StrongAxe on 7/13/19


StrongAxe: Gov are not the best ones to do research. No accountable for the money used. More important matters for research than shrimps on treadmills.

Tell me what tool the Gov developed?

Private research made advancement on Leukemia NOT Gov.

NASA is very useful. Why did Obama ended NASA? Trump restarted NASA and developed the Spaceforce NOT Obama.

It was you complaining about Corporate not paying taxes not me.

***Amazon paid zero federal tax on over a billion in income, and many other companies are similar. Do you think that's fair?--StrongAxe 7/3/19

I was pointing out to you that Obama could have stopped if he wish.

Democrats controlled Congress in 2006 and in 2008 COMPLETE control of the Gov.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/12/19


Nicole_Lacey:

You don't understand how scientific research works? Studying simple things helps us develop tools to study more complicated things. Studying leukemia in mice helps us study leukemia in humans. Studying flight of birds enabled design of the airplane.

And why is NASA useful? Because putting men in space led to communication satellites, GPS, and maybe in the future, colonies on Mars that might save us after our flagrant disregard for nature destroys this planet.

Why criticizing Obama for not fixing a problem Bush created? Why not criticize Bush, who created it in the first place? Because Republicans blame Democrats for everything, never themselves.
---StrongAxe on 7/12/19


StrongeAxe: Our tax dollars: 24% on SS. 26% on Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, and ACA..9% on safety nets like food stamps.//

All of them are safety nets.

Totaling 59%

//Science/medical research is 2%, e.g. "shrimp on treadmills". Other slices are smaller.//

Government shouldn't be in Science/medical research (except NASA)

//G. W. Bush was president in 2004. Obama didn't take over until 2009.//

And when he did take OVER he STILL didn't make Amazon pay taxes. WHY?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/9/19




Strongaxe: You always have a choice. You could vote independent.//

Who ran as a Independent? Only 2 parties running that had a chance.
Independent means you can jump back and forth according to the Candidates.

Which I would NEVER vote for a party that kills babies and enslaved my people no matter whose their Candidate.

That's why I said if Trump started the Trumpican party it would my choice.

All your break of our expenditure is way off.


//9% on safety nets like food stamps.//

Wrong math again

//International is 1%, e.g. Iran aid. Tiny drops in the bucket.//

AID?

That drop SHOULDN'T be in the bucket.

Would you drink from a bucket of water with one drop of poison in it?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/9/19


Nicole_Lacey:

You always have a choice. You could vote independent.

Our tax dollars: 24% on SS. 26% on Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, and ACA (around $1 Trillion - LESS than tax cuts Trump gave the rich). 15% on military (more than all other countries COMBINED). 9% on safety nets like food stamps.

Science/medical research is 2%, e.g. "shrimp on treadmills". Other slices are smaller. International is 1%, e.g. Iran aid. Tiny drops in the bucket.

I guess Obama's Administration believed it was fair for Amazon not to pay taxes. They hadn't paid taxes in the last 15 years.

G. W. Bush was president in 2004. Obama didn't take over until 2009.
---StrongAxe on 7/6/19


StrongAxe, I wish Trump start the Trumpican party. I had to no choice but to be a Republican. I would NEVER be part of a ex-slavery and now baby killer party. Also, I would be a fool to vote for Politicians with a tax increase platform.

The Federal Gov ONLY needs 10% not 45% of my income for public serves.

Additional 35% are used to send Iran 1 billions. study of shrimps on treadmills. etc.

There are States without taxes, thus no local taxes. Property taxes based on home and area.

Sale taxes are the ONLY FAIR tax we have. EVERYONE pays the SAME. 100% not just 56%.

I guess Obama's Administration believed it was fair for Amazon not to pay taxes. They hadn't paid taxes in the last 15 years.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/5/19


Nicole_Lacey:

Given how strong a Republican supporter you seem to be, it's amusing that your example of politicians lying about raising taxes was a Republican president.

If a government wants to pay for shared services (e.g. roads, schools, police) it MUST have revenues to pay for them. Schools are typically financed by tax levies voted on directly by voters (not representatives) - who fully realize their choice is to pay a few dollars for adequate schools, or have uneducated children.

44% is STILL A MINORITY. Federal tax is only one kind. There are also state, Local taxes, property, sales, etc. taxes. Amazon paid zero federal tax on over a billion in income, and many other companies are similar. Do you think that's fair?
---StrongAxe on 7/3/19


StrongAxe, do you how many Representatives LIED to their Constituents about NOT raising taxes? 1st Bush's famous line is known by everyone. "Read my lips..."

//Do you seriously believe that more than 50% of voters don't pay taxes?//

Okay, maybe NOT 50%, but 44% do not pay Federal taxes according to the 'Tax Cuts and Jobs Act'.

**the TCJA Is Increasing The Share Of Households Paying No Federal Income Tax. The Tax Policy Center has updated its estimate of the percentage of Americans who pay no federal individual income taxes. And the number is: 44 percent in 2018about 2 percentage points above last year. -TPC

BTW, the loudest people complaining about rich people paying their fair share DO NOT pay any taxes.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/2/19




Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: No one has to vote to pay more taxes. They can pay more yearly. You just can't pay less.

Laws are passed by a MAJORITY. The only way anyone could pass a law to raise taxes is if a MAJORITY (or their representatives, that they voted in) voted for it. Do you seriously believe that more than 50% of voters don't pay taxes? You may not personally know anyone who makes money who voted to increase taxes, but there certainly have to be enough out there to pass tax increases into law.
---StrongAxe on 7/2/19


Luke 9:58 - Jesus replied, Foxes have dens and birds have nest, but the son of man has no place to lay his head,

( Don't think Christ had any money - Probably when he was a Carpenter he did - Romans 13:1 )
---RichardC on 7/1/19


StrongAxe, I said 'Those who believe Jesus was okay with paying taxes. Just as I could say those who believe 'Abortion is okay".

If you read the rest of the blog you would see that I gave Scripture against their belief.

But, if you thought that was the topic, I can understand your previous answer.

//And taxes come from EVERYONE'S pockets.//

No it doesn't. I know a lot of people who don't pay taxes.

//If I vote to raise taxes, I vote to raise MY OWN as well.//

No it doesn't. I know people who don't pay taxes and voted to raise other people's taxes. I don't know ANYONE who voted to raise their own taxes.

No one has to vote to pay more taxes. They can pay more yearly. You just can't pay less.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/1/19


Nicole_Lacey:

The blog topic is literally: Those who believe Jesus was okay with paying taxes..."

This is "Was Jesus OK with paying taxes", NOT "Did Jesus pay taxes". The two are different. If you meant something different, you should have been more careful when you posted the blog in the first place.

If Jesus was NOT OK with it, he certainly would not have told us to do it.

If someone asks you whether or not to pay taxes, and holding up a coin with Caesar's head on it you say "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's", what ELSE could that POSSIBLY mean?!

And taxes come from EVERYONE'S pockets. If I vote to raise taxes, I vote to raise MY OWN as well.
---StrongAxe on 7/1/19


StrongAxe: What DOES effect our lives is whether he told US to pay OUR taxes, and the answer is, yes he did.//

Seriously?

That's the whole point of this blog. No, JESUS didn't!

You and Democrats always twist or make up Scriptures to condone your thinking.

Jesus NEVER told us to pay taxes.

All you'll chutzpah are likely because you'll either DON'T pay taxes or pay very little.

Democrats pay the least taxes and charity in this Country. But they want OTHER people paying their 'so called' fair taxes. (which means 70%, but 0% or no more than 20% for themselves)

You'll claim to CARE for children as long as it isn't from your pockets. Nooo, you want the Gov i.e. other people's money through CONFISCATION.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/30/19


Nicole_Lacey:

Why do you keep choking on this gnat of whether or not Jesus himself paid taxes? Whether he did or not has NO EFFECT on how we live our lives. It is pointless theological hair-splitting.

What DOES effect our lives is whether he told US to pay OUR taxes, and the answer is, yes he did.
---StrongAxe on 6/27/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


StrongAxe, we have been arguing about Jesus paying taxes that even other people have jumped into the debates. I have been saying that Jesus never pulled a coin from His own pockets. I will try to cite them from CN when I have more time.

//On the other hand, there is no similar scriptural prohibition against paying taxes.//

Don't try to change the subject. You said they have to obey the Authorities. Not obey SOME laws of the Authorities.

They even wanted the people to eat or drink blood even when no money was provided. They were killed for not eating or drinking blood.

But, I will try to pull up the citation of you claiming Jesus paid taxes to Caesar.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/27/19


Nicole_Lacey:

I wasn't saying Jesus paid taxes to Caesar - I said Jesus was telling US to pay taxes to Caesar. Why do you KEEP ignoring what I ACTUALLY SAY, and then make things up that I NEVER SAID, and then complain about it?

Christians were martyred for not offering insence to Caesar PRECISELY because doing so would violate the law against idolatry. I.e. "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's *BUT* unto God what is God's".

On the other hand, there is no similar scriptural prohibition against paying taxes. We use coins with Caesar's image on them to pay for food, lodging, and everything else, without having any religious prohibitions against them. Spending money and paying taxes ARE NOT WORSHIP.
---StrongAxe on 6/27/19


GOD BLESS YOU, JS1234 for not spinning the Gospel

StrongAxe, it is you all claiming Jesus paying taxes to Caesar.

I said the Gospel NEVER states Jesus paid Caesar's taxes

//If they demand that we pay them taxes, then we DISOBEY GOD by disobeying the higher authorities.//
WHAT?
HELLO?

Why do you think so many early Christians were MARTYRED for NOT worshipping/offering sacrifices to the Roman gods?

They were disobedient to Caesar. But obedient to God.

Matt 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and UNTO GOD THE THINGS THAT ARE GOD'S

WORSHIP only belongs to God even in threat of death you still have to obey God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/26/19


Nicole_Lacey:

Jesus asked for a coin.
He asked whose face was on it. They replied "Caesar".
He said "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's".
This clearly indicates that Caesar's money should be given back to Caesar. What other meaning could this possibly have?

And if you don't like that, remember that we are COMMANDED to be subject to the higher authorities. If they demand that we pay them taxes, then we DISOBEY GOD by disobeying the higher authorities.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


Nicole, I was quoting the Apostle Paul, not Jesus. I agree, there is no evidence that Jesus paid any taxes to the Roman government.
---JS1234 on 6/25/19


JS1234, but Jesus DIDN'T and never told anyone to pay Caesar.

In fact He wasn't happy when they wanted Him and Peter to pay the Temple tax. He said so and told Peter to go fishing.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/25/19


"Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed." - Romans 13:7
---JS1234 on 6/14/19


Cluny: Nicole, did you know that this is the origin of the three golden balls at pawnbrokers?//

No, I didn't. I looked it up.

Nice to know.

Its amazing how so many traditions today are connected to factual events centuries ago.

I guess traditions are not bad after all.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/30/19


Send a Free St Patrick's Day Ecard


Nicole, did you know that this is the origin of the three golden balls at pawnbrokers?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/28/19


StrongAxe, India is in the East and considered an Asian Culture.

St. Nicholas from Turkey, gave 3 bags of gold to girls for their dowries. (That's where we got the concept of Santa Claus with a bag of gifts coming in the dark of night while we are sleeping)

//Deuteronomy 22:2829).//

Those verses are concerning rape!

Vs 13-19 speaks about a man who dislikes his bride AFTER he slept with her and LIES about her not being a virgin PRIOR to their marriage.

He is FINE for his lie only

No dowries to the fathers for NORMAL marriages in Ch 22.

V18..punish him, they shall FINE him one hundred shekels of silver (which they shall give to the young womans father) BECAUSE he has SLANDERED a virgin of Israel.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/26/19


Nicole_Lacey:

"Supposed to" under what law? Dowries paid by father to groom are the custom in the west but it was NOT the custom in the Old Testament and other Asian cultures. To the contrary, the GROOM paid a "bride price" to the father of the bride. (Exodus 22:1617, Deuteronomy 22:2829).

(One explanation is bride prices are common in polygynous societies, where men must compete for a relatively scarce supply of available women, while dowries are common in monogamous societies where women must compete for a relatively scarce supply of well-to-do men).

Jacob had to pay 7 years for Leah and another 7 years for Rachel.
---StrongAxe on 5/9/19


StrongAxe, there ISN'T anything wrong with your comprehension. But you think there is something wrong with my comprehension.

BTW, since you think Jacob is loyal to 'customs' why did Jacob had to pay the dowry?

The father of the bride is supposed to PAY THE DOWRY.

Dowry: property or money brought by a bride to her husband on their marriage. - Dictionary online

Back to Genesis. The deal was for 7 years for Rachel NOT 14 years!

Funny how you left out the words in V27:

Finish this daughters bridal week, then we will give you the younger one also, in return for ANOTHER seven years of work.

AGAIN Jacob had to KEEP LEAH
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/8/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


Nicole_Lacey:

Gen 29:23: Laban fraudulently gave Jacob Leah, even though Rachel was promised.
25: Jacob complained
26-27: Leah explained their custom of not marrying off a younger daughter first
... (note total absence of Jacob complaining about this)
28: Jacob went along with the deal

A sin offering was a COMMAND from God - to cover sin. But since Jesus never sinned (and Catholics believe Mary never did either), why was it necessary to cover sin that doesn't exist? Because of custom. Same reason Jesus paid the temple tax, even though sons aren't required to do so.
---StrongAxe on 5/8/19


StrongAxe: Jacob stopped complaining once Laban explained the custom,//

You don't know that.

//willingly accepted Laban's unfair bait-and-switch deal - because it was the CUSTOM.//

No, no, no!

1. Laban, had 7 YEARS to find a husband for Leah. Maybe that's why Jacob said 7 years.

2. IMPORTANTLY, consummation SEALS marriage NOT a custom.

If Jacob DIDN'T consummated the marriage, he could WALK AWAY

//Jesus was without sin, so Mary didn't need a sin offering for him, but she did - because it was the CUSTOM.//

NO! Not Custom! A COMNAND from God.

Do you know the difference?

It is a custom to have give your BEST wine at the BEGINNING of weddings celebration. John 2:10 Not a Command.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/7/19


Nicole_Lacey:

Jacob stopped complaining once Laban explained the custom, and willingly accepted Laban's unfair bait-and-switch deal - because it was the CUSTOM.

Jesus was without sin, so Mary didn't need a sin offering for him, but she did - because it was the CUSTOM.

Jesus said that he didn't have to pay the temple tax, but he did - because it was the CUSTOM.

Jesus only complained about the Pharisees teachings because their customs DIRECTLY contradicted what was expressly written in Law of God. None of the examples I mentioned above did so.


Why mention Holy Festivals? I never talked about that. I talked about TAXES. Scripture NEVER says Jesus ALWAYS paid taxes but it also never says he NEVER paid taxes.
---StrongAxe on 5/6/19


StrongAxe: Jesus said it was wrong to ask him to pay temple tax BUT he paid it anyway.//

I said that but paying the Temple isn't paying Caesar!

It isn't any difference as when I pay my Catholic Church money, the IRS stills wants their money.

But Jesus still didn't pay Caesar, and wasn't afraid to say so in public He wasn't paying Caesar. Stop reading between the lines as you put it.

The only time Jesus was asked and giving the opportunity to pay Caesar He didn't!

So please stop saying stuffs you can't prove in the Bible.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


StrongAxe: The Bible constantly says that one should obey custom.//

No it DOESN'T, only obey God's Law. Jesus complained about putting customs over God's Laws.

//Laban cheated Jacob out of Rachel by giving him Leah. Did he complain? No,//

Jacob DID complain. Gen 29:25...there was Leah!So Jacob said to Laban, What is this you have done to me? I served you for Rachel, didnt I? Why have you deceived me?

//He put custom over his own rights.//

Not custom, but God's Law!

He was forced to keep Leah because he had relations with Leah.

Why didn't Laban tell Jacob that before Jacob worked for Laban for 7 years?

BTW, God ALLOWED the deception. Jacob got a taste of his own medication. (Esau)
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/19


StrongAxe: You REALLY should take a course in introductory logic.//

ME?

//If the Bible doesn't mention a subject, you CANNOT say it happened, and you ALSO cannot say it didn't happen. You can't assert EITHER ONE certainly.//

1. This your problems. I believe you haven't read the Bible in a while.

2. The Bible DOES mention Jesus going to a Holy Festival.//

Jesus 10:22-23, Matthew 26:17
So, using YOUR logic it doesn't fly.

//There is NOTHING in those verses that said Jesus REFUSED to pay taxes.//

Again, Jesus ACTION OF NOT PAYING means He refused to pay

//You read that between the lines.//

No that is you not me. At least I have Jesus' Actions. You are reading between Imagery lines.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/6/19


DAVID. We've debated this issue before.

A Christian's identity is in Christ, abiding in him (Gal 2:20, Col 3:3) and there is NO SIN in Christ (1John 3:5).
To say a Christian sins is to say that there is sin in Christ.

What sin do you suggest can be charged against a Christian?
---Haz27 on 5/6/19


JOSEF. I've quoted to you John 8:36, Rev 12, 1John 5:5 which all shows that being set free from sin, and overcoming, are both linked.

The fact that you disregard God's word to hold on to your line of argument is disappointing.

Your efforts to misrepresent this as an "accusation" to fit your argument is disappointing.
---Haz27 on 5/6/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Make Money


When we believe on Jesus we overcome the world and are thus set free from sin ---Haz27

Haz
Many folks believe what you said, but Foundational teachings on Salvation, come from Jesus, the Author of Salvation.
Agree?

You mentioned (John 8:36), but you failed to see the few verses before it. In (John 8:34) Jesus said, Everyone who sins, is a slave to sin. So...if you sin...according to the Author Of Salvation,....you are a slave.

If Jesus calls you a slave, how can you call yourself free?
---David on 5/6/19


Actually there is not one verse that says we overcome SIN. Fact is we DIED TO SIN.

Being an overcomer of this world is something HAZ27 will never know the truth about because he is so steeped in the world and the politics of this world it's not funny. Your not an overcomer Haz27. Satan has you by the neck.

When you find yourself seated with Christ in HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST, having overcome this world ..it's something you KNOW in your heart....not just presumed head knowledge . And the ONLY way to overcome is through the fellowship of His sufferings....being severed from this world translated out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son. NO POLITICS UP HERE HAZ27.
---kathr4453 on 5/6/19


"JOSEF. It's disappointing that you disregard God's word. Haz this sounds like an accusation, that has brought you to a judgment concerning me:o) Does it suit you? Obviously you've decided to end our exchange. Be blessed in your thoughts, Have a good day.
---josef on 5/5/19


My apologies Haz, I posted this response to the wrong blog. A man does not 'overcome' (conquer or defeat) that which he has been 'freed' (delivered or liberated) from. An accusation may be a part of the "judging process", however the accusation is not the judgment.
---josef on 5/5/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


JOSEF. It's disappointing that you disregard God's word.

To overcome is to be set free from sin, as scriptures I quoted such as Rev 12, John 8:36, indicates.

Even 1John 5:5 shows this.
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

When we believe on Jesus we overcome the world and are thus set free from sin so that Satan, the accuser, can no longer accuse us.
---Haz27 on 5/5/19


Nicole_Lacey:

No, no no! You REALLY should take a course in introductory logic. If the Bible doesn't mention a subject, you CANNOT say it happened, and you ALSO cannot say it didn't happen. You can't assert EITHER ONE certainly.

There is NOTHING in those verses that said Jesus REFUSED to pay taxes. You read that between the lines.

The Bible constantly says that one should obey custom. Laban cheated Jacob out of Rachel by giving him Leah. Did he complain? No, once he was told it was not the custom to marry the younger daughter off first. He put custom over his own rights. Jesus said it was wrong to ask him to pay temple tax BUT he paid it anyway.
---StrongAxe on 5/5/19


StrongAxe, there are millions things the Bible DOESN'T state Jesus NEVER did. Okay, you can also say Jesus missed a Holy Feast because it doesn't states Jesus NEVER missed a Festival

TWICE the subject of PAYING taxes to Caesar showed He didn't pay.

The ONLY time the Bible states Jesus paid a tax it was to the Temple not Caesar.

And Jesus said it was WRONG to ask Him to pay the Temple tax.

Matt 17:26b Then the children are EXEMPT, Jesus said to him.

COMMON SENSE tells us Jesus didn't believed in paying ANY taxes.

But He ONLY was willing to give money to His Father's House.

Matt 17:27 But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake...

But Jesus REFUSED to give Caesar a coin!
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/4/19


JOSEF. John 8:34-36 tells us that Christians are set FREE from sin.
This confirms Rev 12.

Satan is the accuser (prosecutor) accusing people of sin. Christians, however, have been set FREE from sin (John 8:34-36) by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony Rev 12:11. This is what it means by overcoming Satan with his accusations of sin.

Accusing others is part of the judging process. God is the judge, although Christians are called to judge those in churches who are false brethren, and to put them out, (1Cor 5).
---Haz27 on 5/4/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Stocks


"JOSEF. Your indiscriminate generalizations about "accusations" appears to be a deliberate ploy to avoid the truth." What "truth" are you referring to Haz? Where in Rev 12:10,11 does it read, or even imply "Jesus freed us from Satan's accusations"? Freed and overcame are different words with different meanings. They are not synonyms. The same applies to the words accused and judged that you attempted to make synonyms earlier on 5/2 by quoting 1 Cor 5:3, in an apparent attempt to accuse Paul of making an accusation.
---josef on 5/4/19


JOSEF. Your indiscriminate generalizations about "accusations" appears to be a deliberate ploy to avoid the truth.

Where does it say that Jesus freed us from Satan's accusations?

Rev 12:10,11
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

And they OVERCAME him BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB AND BY THE WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY, and they did not love their lives to the death."
---Haz27 on 5/3/19


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: But it states He DIDN'T pay the taxes!

Just because Jesus may not have, personally, handed a tax payment to a tax collector ON THAT ONE INSTANCE, this does not prove that he NEVER did so.

Luke 23 quotes the accusations of Jesus' accusers. Why do you believe people who wanted him dead? Jesus didn't call himself king (which would have put him in conflict with Rome), because he specifically said his kingdom is NOT of this world.
---StrongAxe on 5/3/19


"As you're the one who first referred to Satan the accuser" No Haz, John of Revelation was first. Where is it written that Jesus set anyone free from Satan's accusations? Since you seem fond of suggestions, I "suggest" you stop looking to defend or excuse accusations of any kind.
---josef on 5/3/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Diabetes


JOSEF. As you're the one who first referred to Satan the accuser then that is why I asked yo the question on what was Satan accusing people of.

This question was meant to get you to look into the types of accusations in the Bible, instead of using such references indiscriminately to support your view.
If you're not even interested in understanding what accusations from Satan that Jesus set us free from, then I suggest you stop generalizing about "accusations" when you're so unwilling to discern between Satan's accusations, Christians accusations against false brethren (1Cor 5), or accusations within other specific contexts in this world.
---Haz27 on 5/3/19


StrongAxe: No, THEY DO NOT. Nowhere in Mark 12 + Matthew 22 does it say Jesus ***NEVER*** paid taxes,//

But it states He DIDN'T pay the taxes!

//Luke 23 only says what Jesus was falsely accused of.//

What?

Again, they said Jesus said He was the Son of God making Him equal to God.

I asked before and you didn't answer it.

Are you claiming they falsely accused Jesus and to you Jesus ISN'T the Son of the Father making Him God?

They were CORRECT! Jesus did claim and is the Son of God.

As I said Jesus NEVER paid taxes because He opposed it and they wanted Pilate to kill Him for that reason.

You do know Jesus DIED the next day?

So that is proof Jesus NEVER paid taxes to Pilate.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/3/19


Nicole_Lacey:

No, THEY DO NOT. Nowhere in Mark 12 + Matthew 22 does it say Jesus ***NEVER*** paid taxes, and Luke 23 only says what Jesus was falsely accused of.

Nowhere does it say Jesus ***OPPOSED*** paying taxes. Quite to the contrary, he SPECIFICALLY said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's".

He knew it was a trick question - if he paid the tax, the Pharisees would accuse him of collaboration with Romans. If he refused to pay, the Pharisees would accuse him of treason against Rome. So he split the hair and said what to pay, and what not to pay.

Reading between the lines things that aren't there don't prove YOU are right.
---StrongAxe on 5/2/19


StrongAxe: There is NO SCRIPTURE that said he did not.//

Mark 12, Matt 22 and Luke 23 specifically proves my point.

Jesus had money because the Bible states Judas helped himself.

Then it's one of the charges of NOT ONLY not paying taxes (a person can not pay but wishes he could). They went a step further saying Jesus OPPOSES to pay taxes.

**Meaning disapprove of and attempt to prevent, especially by argument.
**actively resist or refuse to comply with (a person or a SYSTEM).
**synonyms:be against,object to,be hostile to,be anti,be in opposition to,disagree with,dislike,disapprove of,

//Absence of proof is NOT proof of absence.//

Ingornig Scriptures proving you wrong doesn't mean you are right.
---Nikki_Lacey on 5/2/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Depression


"JOSEF. Not answering my question on what Satan the accuser was accusing people of is not helping you. HAZ, no help necessary. I am not interested in his accusations. If the subject of his accusations is important to you, then answer it yourself, If you have an answer, for the benefit of those who may think likewise. In my view, an accusation is an accusation, period, and unnecessary in the light of evidence. If there is no evidence, there should be no accusation. Baseless accusations has cost people their lives.
---josef on 5/2/19


JOSEF. Not answering my question on what Satan the accuser was accusing people of is not helping you.

As for 1Cor 5, it's ACCUSING (see verse 3 "JUDGED") some within the church of being false brethren, and how such people should not be tolerated in the body. These people who are judged as not being Christian are to be put out of the church (verse 13).
---Haz27 on 5/2/19


"I suggest you be more discerning about what is "accusing" in future.
---Haz27 on 5/1/19"
Haz I've stated the definition of accusing, as I understand the term. I suggest you adhere to your own suggestion, today.
"Also I guess you don't like the accusations against false Christians in 1Cor 5." Paul's rebuke is directed towards those in the church making or listening to the accusations, without taking any action concerning them. And no Haz, I don't like accusations, of any kind. I make every effort to avoid them, and allow evidence to speak for itself.
---josef on 5/1/19


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Jesus DIDN'T pay taxes to Caesar!

How do you know he didn't? There is NO SCRIPTURE that said he did not. Just because there is no scripture that explicitly said that he DID doesn't mean he didn't. There is no scripture that said he went to the bathroom either, but would you argue that means he held it in for 33 years? Surely not.

Absence of proof is NOT proof of absence.
---StrongAxe on 5/1/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Study


StrongAxe: You wrote: He didn't pay the taxes when asked. Mark 12. Where did you get that? There is NOTHING in Mark 2 (I guess you meant 12) that said he REFUSED to pay. On the contrary, he SPECIFICALLY indicated the coin with Caesar's head and said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's"//

Really?

Jesus DIDN'T pay taxes to Caesar!

1st They were not Tax Collectors.

Only Matthew was a tax collector in that group and Jesus told him to stop and follow Him.

2nd Jesus gave them BACK their own coin given to Him to give to Caesar.

Okay, send me YOUR MONEY so you can pay my taxes.

Then you can claim I also pay taxes.
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/1/19


JOSEF. I note you did not answer my question on what does Satan accuse the brethren of.

Also I guess you don't like the accusations against false Christians in 1Cor 5.

I suggest you be more discerning about what is "accusing" in future.
---Haz27 on 5/1/19


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: He didn't pay the taxes when asked. Mark 12

Where did you get that? There is NOTHING in Mark 2 that said he REFUSED to pay. On the contrary, he SPECIFICALLY indicated the coin with Caesar's head and said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's"

Even Jesus agrees with me in Matt 21:28-31

What do the two brothers have to do with anything? There is NOTHING in that passage that has ANYTHING to do with paying taxes.

Unless you DON'T think Jesus is God's Son and God?

I never said that, nor implied it. Where do you get this stuff?!
---StrongAxe on 5/1/19


StrongAxe: And where, exactly,..did Jesus SAY that he opposed payment of taxes to Caesar? He never said that.//

You think you are clever.

Who said He SAID He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar?

He didn't pay the taxes when asked. Mark 12

Not paying taxes is the same thing as 'opposing' paying taxes.

Actions are speaks louder..
Even Jesus agrees with me in Matt 21:28-31

//Why are you taking those who wanted Jesus dead at their word?//

Because they were right.

Jesus did opposes paying taxes to Caesar.

They remember Jesus' Words saying He would raise from the grave. Matt 27:63

Jesus is the Father's Son making Him God.

Unless you DON'T think Jesus is God's Son and God?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/1/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Verses


"We need to differentiate what accusations Satan is in to, as opposed to accusations of other matters such as false brethren in the church" (1Cor 5).---Haz27 on 4/30/19 Why Haz? And accusation is "a charge of wrongdoing, imputation of guilt or blame" regardless of "the act of accusing or state of being accused." Accusers, are off springs of the accuser. Prove me wrong.
---josef on 5/1/19


JOSEF. True, Satan is the accuser (Rev 12:10). But you seem to use this inappropriately in support of some general argument against accusations.

What do you think Satan was accusing the brethren of?

We need to differentiate what accusations Satan is in to, as opposed to accusations of other matters such as false brethren in the church (1Cor 5).
---Haz27 on 4/30/19


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: What part of "He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar" do you not understand?

And where, exactly, did Jesus SAY that he opposed payment of taxes to Caesar? He never said that. Those who FALSELY ACCUSED HIM in order to get him arrested and executed accused him of that and other things that were also not true. Why are you taking those who wanted Jesus dead at their word?
---StrongAxe on 5/1/19


StrongAxe: There is no record of Jesus ever refusing to pay tax, or teaching others to do so.//

What's the matter with you?

What part of "He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar" do you not understand?

So are you saying if Jesus opposes something it is still okay for us because a earth king says the opposite?

Caesars believe it's okay to have adultery it's okay for us even though Jesus opposes adultery?

Jesus NOT ONLY taught His Disciples how to think and act, even the Pharisees knew it.

Remember they were trying to give Pilate a reason to give Jesus the death penalty?

But even Pilate knew NOT paying taxes isn't a reason to give Jesus the death penalty.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/30/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Arthritis


"my kingdom is not of this world" is an important distinction.

As for Lk 23,

" the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar" is an accusation, brought by Jesus' accusers. Do we agree with his accusers? I'm not aware of scriptural witness that confirms this accusation.
The remainder of their accusations,
"saying that he himself is Christ a King." ,
brings up the subject of Christ as king, and therefore an understanding of what Jesus meant and means by 'kingdom'.
---chria9396 on 4/26/19


"Mark 12 and Luke 23 backs me up and you all know it. You just making up stuff NOT in the Bible." Nicole that's exactly what an accusation sounds like. And that's exactly how Luke 23:2 reads, like an unfounded accusation. Satan is the accuser, and those influenced by him, and yield, are his servants.
"So, Josef, your explanation of Kingdom not on earth doesn't matter. Luke 23:2 (King)" I just thought I would throw it in anyway Nicole, It may matter to someone. I think "my kingdom is not of this world" means what it reads. Jesus never claimed to be king. We are simply privileged, blessed of Him, to know that He returns to earth as LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS.
---josef on 4/25/19


Nicole_Lacey:

Luke 23 says people ACCUSED Jesus of "perverting the nation" and "forbidding tribute to Caesar" - neither of which was true, but even being accused of those things could get you killed. Just as false accusations of child abuse end teaching and political careers here, even when disproved. Just as false accusations of blasphemy in Muslim countries get people killed by mobs, even when disproved.

In Mark 12, Jesus showed a penny with Caesar's image, and said to give unto Caesar what was Caesar's! This is NOT "proof that Jesus never paid taxes".
---StrongAxe on 4/25/19


Josef and StrongAxe, Mark 12 and Luke 23 backs me up and you all know it. You just making up stuff NOT in the Bible.

Jesus DID NOT give Caesar any money when we know He had money.

He asked them to give Him a coin. He didn't want Judas to produce anything. He didn't even tell Peter to go fishing for any money to give to Caesar.

After He got their money and returned it back to them telling them to pay Caesar. Not with His money either. (Caesar's coins in Judas' money bag).

2nd proof Luke 23, what part of 'opposes' do you all do not UNDERSTAND?

EXPLAIN 'He OPPOSES payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a KING.

So, Josef, your explanation of Kingdom not on earth doesn't matter. Luke 23:2 (King)
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/25/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Asthma


There is no record of Jesus ever refusing to pay tax, or teaching others to do so. That would be disobedience against higher authorities, whom Jesus taught us to obey (i.e. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's").

However, accusing someone of terribly unpopular crimes has always been a popular way to eliminate unpopular people, even if accusations weren't true. Corrupt officials in Salem accused innocent women of witchcraft so they could kill them and seize their land.

French King Philip IV, deeply in debt, accused the Knights Templar of satanism so he could have them killed and seize their lands.

The Pharisees encouraged the crowd to accuse Jesus of tax evasion (i.e. treason) as an excuse to have him killed.
---StrongAxe on 4/23/19


"You all are claiming Jesus paid Caesar when the Bible is clear that He didn't and refused when asked." Where Nichole? BCV?
---josef on 4/24/19


Cluny: When asked by the Jewish authorities if He had paid the temple tax, He had one of the disciples catch a fish and use that to provide the needed coin. (Matthew 17:24-27)//

Jesus was Jewish not a Roman Citizen. You are truly mistaken.

V25 From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes from their own CHILDREN or from others?....Then the children are EXEMPT,

Temple taxes DIDN'T go the Romans. The tax specifically states 'Temple'

Luke 23 states Jesus OPPOSES payment of Taxes to Caesar.

How are you confusing Caesar with the Temple?

You all are claiming Jesus paid Caesar when the Bible is clear that He didn't and refused when asked. Even though He had money or capable of getting money.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/23/19


Jesus asked Peter "of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?" Peter answered "strangers", "Jesus saith unto him, then the children are exempt." Believers profess themselves to be "strangers and pilgrims on the earth." Therefore must pay by it's laws. As far as claiming to be king, When asked by Pilate, Art thou a king? Jesus simply said "Thou sayest that I am a king." Just prior to the question He had already stated "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
---josef on 4/23/19


Read These Insightful Articles About Cholesterol


\\Jesus NEVER paid taxes. He asked for their coin. He didn't even pull out a coin from his pockets or money bag.\\

Wrong, Nicole.

When asked by the Jewish authorities if He had paid the temple tax, He had one of the disciples catch a fish and use that to provide the needed coin. (Matthew 17:24-27)

Whether it was a coin in the fish's mouth, or the proceeds from its sale doesn't matter.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/22/19


Okay Josef, so you do agree with me that Jesus DIDN'T believe in paying taxes.

Jesus NEVER paid taxes. He asked for their coin. He didn't even pull out a coin from his pockets or money bag.

We know Jesus had money because the Bible states so in many passages.

John 12:6 Judas did not say this because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief. As keeper of the money bag, he used to take from what was put into it

John 13:29 Since Judas kept the money bag, some thought that Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the feast, or to give something to the poor.

Proof that Jesus didn't pay taxes and even the Jews wanted to convict Jesus for NOT paying taxes.
---Nicole_Lacey on 4/22/19


"Those who believe Jesus was okay with paying taxes. Please explain these Passages Why try an explain a lie? The statement was a baseless accusation. Jesus' answer concerning taxes was, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
---josef on 4/22/19


Copyright© 2017 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.