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God's Grace On Noah

In (Genesis 6:8) KJV, it says, Noah found Grace in the eyes of the Lord. Did Noah do anything to find Grace, or was he arbitrarily chosen?

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Acts 19: 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Luke 3:16. John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water, but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Romans 6-8
---kathr4453 on 5/26/19


Cluny, those who only received John's baptism did not receive the baptism of Jesus...the Holy Spirit and fire. No water necessary.

Acts19: 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

Luke 3:16. John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water, but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Also there are many types and shadows of THE CROSS in the OT.
---kat453 on 5/26/19


\\The like FIGURE means a type and shadow of the CROSS...that NOW saves us. \\

No, it doesn't

St. Peter did not say, "The cross now saves us."

What you're doing is called "eisogesis", that is reading into a text things that are not there.

Furthermore, John's baptism, derived from the Jewish rite of mikveh, is NOT the same thing as Christian baptism.

Remember that in the Book of Acts, people who had only received John's baptism had to receive Christian baptism.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/25/19


(Mark 1:4) John baptized in the wilderness and preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Kathryn
Please take the verse above into your thinking, before criticizing Cluny for his logical thought. Under the Law of Moses, wasn't an animal sacrifice required for the remission of sins?

Since this was obviously not a teaching under the old covenant, is it not fair to assume, John was a teacher of the New covenant? Do you believe God sent John into the wilderness to teach a false doctrine?
---David on 5/25/19


The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Hebrews...OUR CONSCIENCE PURGED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. No amount of water can affect your conscience. The like FIGURE means a type and shadow of the CROSS...that NOW saves us.

Salvation is being Crucified with Christ where we DIE TO SIN, not washing sin with water, but being washed IN HIS BLOOD, the blood shed at THE CROSS, justified BY HIS BLOOD and SAVED BY HIS LIFE. Saved when we are raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURES...just as the number 8 is a TYPE and FIGURE meaning NEW BEGINNINGS. NEW LIFE.
---kathr4453 on 5/25/19




Water baptism by John the Baptist was a washing away of the sins of the flesh. However this baptism in Peter is NOT the washing away of the sins of the flesh by water, but the Spiritual baptism as the result of the resurrection of Jesus Christ...Romans 6. Many types and shadows in the OT pointed to the CROSS.

It's amazing that the words In Peter are so clear that it isn't John the Baptist's water baptism......also verified in Acts when those Paul talked to those who said they only were baptized with John's baptism and hadn't even heard of the Holy Spirit AKA the Spiritual Baptism of Jesus Christ that was promised AFTER Jesus Resurrection....the one they waited for at Pentecost.
---kathr4453 on 5/24/19


**Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
**

This is talking about WATER BAPTISM, not Noah looking to the Cross.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/24/19


with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season,

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Abraham offered Isaac, believing God would raise him from the dead....that ONLY CAME THROUGH CHRIST WHO SAID I AM THE RESURRECTION. ...just read Hebrews 11 Cluny. Jesus said of Abraham, Abraham rejoiced to see my day..he saw it and was glad.

AND yes, having had a stroke, my spelling will no doubt get worse. Just deal with it Cluny. I have.
---kathr4453 on 5/24/19


\\Cluny, 1 Peter 3:20-22 shows the ARC was also a type and shadow of salvation, RE THE CROSS, REPRESENTING DEATH AND RESURRECTION LIFE.... \\

Wrong.

The ark (note the proper spelling) is a type of the CHURCH.

\\Moses chose the sufferings OF CHRIST over the riches of the world. \\

Wrong again.

He chose the suffering of his fellow Hebrews over the riches of EGYPT.

\\Please don't say you believe no One knew a Redeemer was promised? \\

I never said NO one knew, and you're lying if you say I did.

Please give BCV where Abraham saw the Resurrection.

Bet you can't.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/24/19


We do see a tradition of casting lots, as we see in the beginning of Acts....BUT THE DECISION of the 12 Th Apostle was in fact of the Lord who chose Paul.

God doesn't cast lots, men do. And God can and does override those "lots" if it's not according to His will.

Most importantly, it's evil to take verses like Proverbs 16:33 and apply it to salvation. The chapter is not talking about salvation. This is again HOW CULTS START, and how the ignorant follow these cult practices who take verses out of context to defining their false teachings. Nothing new.
---kathr4453 on 5/24/19




Heavenly lotto in OT - no such thing exist ?

Proverbs 16:33 - The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.
---RichardC on 5/23/19


Cluny, 1 Peter 3:20-22 shows the ARC was also a type and shadow of salvation, RE THE CROSS, REPRESENTING DEATH AND RESURRECTION LIFE....

YES, the JUST, were those STRONGS # 6662 just, lawful righteous.....The JUST shall live by faith....were those who looked forward to the coming redeemer, announced in Genesis 3:15. Just as we see in Hebrews 11...Moses chose the sufferings OF CHRIST over the riches of the world.

Please don't say you believe no One knew a Redeemer was promised? That he would die for our sin..Isaiah 53, also that Abraham saw the resurrection in a vision, even JOB said I know that my redeemer liveth. You may want to study the word JUST in the OT and New. You were either JUST or UNJUST starting from Abel on.
---kathr4453 on 5/23/19


Kathryn
Thank you, that was an Excellent and very honest explanation. And I will make sure I put it in my notes for any dialogue we have in the future. Now I will simplify what I teach.

I see the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as a means, or as a vehicle to receive Gods Grace/favor. For Without his sacrifice, the only sacrifice acceptable to God, there could be no forgiveness of sin. And without this forgiveness, we would remain separated from God (Isaiah 59:2).

This fact is easily proven after we go before God and confess our sins. When forgiven, the separation is removed, and then we can experience this removal, first hand, as we now stand in the light of God.
---David on 5/23/19


\\ Noah a JUST MAN looked forward to the Cross, is the reason he was said to be JUST in the first place.
\\

Did he?

PLEASE give the Bible verse that says Noah looked forward to the Cross, kathr.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/19


The One and Only gospel. He gave us Jesus who is full of grace and truth. So when Paul refers to the gospel of grace in Acts 20, he means exactly the same thing as when he and others refer to the gospel of Christ or the gospel of God or the gospel of his Son or the gospel of peace in other places.

The Completeness of the Gospel of Grace Galatians 6:11-18.

3 Reasons Why the Gospel of Grace is the True Gospel. It is the truth that Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, died for our sins and came back from the dead. It is well defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and Romans 10, and Ephesians 2. And Romans 5. And.......Galatians 2:20-21. Those saved by THIS GOSPEL OF GRACE have no problem understanding the GRACE of God.
---kathr4453 on 5/22/19


I believe in the NT GRACE means Gods Riches At CHRISTS Expense.

It's found not in Gods Eyes but at the Cross. Noah a JUST MAN looked forward to the Cross, is the reason he was said to be JUST in the first place.

Now Calvin's definition is arbitrary selection AKA : on the whim of God for no reason. Having your name picked out of a hat....lucky heavenly lotto. Even in the OT, no such thing exists, as we see Hebrews 11 clearly define from Abel on there is no such doctrine as on a whim. They obeyed THE LAW OF FAITH. HEBREWS 11 is clearly about FAITH.

David, I will state my beliefs again. You don't need to respond.
---kathr4453 on 5/22/19


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Kathryn
My apologies, I forgot you do not define Grace as being in the favor of God. I was merely expounding on that definition through the example of Noah. And had hoped that through that example, you had come to agree with my point.

Since you dont accept that definition, there is no need for us to discuss this.
---David on 5/22/19


Like I said, all those thing originated with Paganism.

Just stating the facts Cluny.
It's actually the 2nd commandment you all seem to ignore or erase. It was put there for a reason, separating Israel from the rest of the world.
---kathr4453 on 5/22/19


\\Also you all have that "seeing eye" candles, incense, and more. All these things ALSO were used by pagan religions. The All Seeing Eye came from Masonic symbolism. \\

kathr, what on earth is "seeing eye" incense?

Actually, the All-Seeing Eye is OLDER than freemasonry, though I know truth means nothing to you.

Did you know one of the things that Christians picked up from paganism is probably in your house at this minute?

I refer to the codex form of books, including your very Bible.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/19


\\Yea, it's like saying , " yea I wear the swastika on all my clothing and jewelry and tattoos , BUT I gave it a new meaning". Really doesn't fly!
---kathr4453 on 5/21/19\\

Did you know that ancient synagogues were adorned with swastikas?

And have you forgotten that the Temple
and Tabernacle were adorned with images by God's direct command?

"No one could describe the Word of the Father, but when He became flesh, He could be described. He restored the fallen nature of mankind by uniting it to divine beauty. This is our salvation which we proclaim in both preaching and icons."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/19


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Kathryn
Well I am glad you have finally come to that realization. Grace is not given arbitrarily, as you once believed. You now admit, Noah found Grace for the reasons you mentioned above.
---David on 5/21/19

David, I've never changed my belief on that. Maybe you just never understood what I believed. I don't believe in Calvinism....yet it appears you do. So I'm confused. God saves those who put their faith in Jesus Christ. Abel did along with all those who LIVED BY FAITH in the coming redeemer. These were called THE JUST. I've stated Hebrews 11 hundreds of times here.
---kathr4453 on 5/21/19


David, I'm not sure why you continue to misrepresent my beliefs. Makes me wonder if you ever really read anything I've said, or if you just get some kick out of misrepresenting just to make your own point. YOU stated God saves who He wants. Is that not arbitrary selection? I questioned you on this before and stated my belief only to be rebuked by our online Calvinist...that YOU agreed with.

I don't like the games David.
---kath453 on 5/21/19


David, Genesis 6:9 These are the Generations of Noah. Noah was( Past Tense) a JUST MAN and perfect in his generation, and Noah walked with God.
Nothing indicates it was arbitrary WHATSOEVER.---kathr4453 on 5/16/19


Kathryn
Well I am glad you have finally come to that realization. Grace is not given arbitrarily, as you once believed. You now admit, Noah found Grace for the reasons you mentioned above.
---David on 5/21/19


Well Cluny, maybe that's why IKONS etc were forbidden in Israel, so that people didn't confuse Israel with the world. And seeing you claim the same imagery as the world but put a different definition to it is Clever, but still confusing. It Just doesn't fly.

Yea, it's like saying , " yea I wear the swastika on all my clothing and jewelry and tattoos , BUT I gave it a new meaning". Really doesn't fly!
---kathr4453 on 5/21/19


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\\
However to be fare, the Calvinist's Churches have that BIG ONE EYE THINGY painted on many ceilings of their churches....also a cult symbol, \\

kathr, the same emblem can have different meanings in different contexts.

In Christianity, your "BIG ONE EYE THINGY" means the all-seeing Eye of God.

Once in my home town, the Melkites came to a pro-life demonstration with their church flag, that prominently shows a double-headed eagle.

Someone was upset at their bringing a "Masonic flag."

I explained to him that for the Eastern Churches, this stands for the union of two natures in the one person of Our Savior.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/19


Cluny, I just looked it up again. Symbols the Orthodox use is listed online. The SUN symbol is said to represent the SUN of Righteousness. Also you all have that "seeing eye" candles, incense, and more. All these things ALSO were used by pagan religions. The All Seeing Eye came from Masonic symbolism. It is what it is. Pictures don't lie.
---kathr4453 on 5/20/19


\\ Yes it is displayed on the Orthodox paraphernalia as I referenced some sites with pictures for Cluny\\

"Orthodox paraphernalia" do not include sun symbols.

You have NEVER given sites showing this, as they cannot be given on these blogs. It's against the rules here.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/19


Mike, I understand what you are talking about. I've had this discussion with Cluny before...re the sun god. Yes it is displayed on the Orthodox paraphernalia as I referenced some sites with pictures for Cluny to look at. Mike, he simply denies it and says you are seeing things.

However to be fare, the Calvinist's Churches have that BIG ONE EYE THINGY painted on many ceilings of their churches....also a cult symbol, going way back...or possibly a Mason symbol..who knows. Many are simply ignorant of the meaning of these symbols or if they are still a deep part of their religious beliefs or not anymore. Many have just ignorantly followed a tradition for years and never questioned it.
---kathr4453 on 5/20/19


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\\
Peter says in Acts 5:29 ...obey GOD than man.
btw the pope is uniting with your orthodox & the bible says that the WHOLE WORLD will worship the beast. it will not be tomorrow but IT will happen bec God said it. oops you don't obey GOD but obey man. forgot about that.\\

mike, a couple of tidbits if you care about truth.

1. The Patriarch of Constantinople is NOT the Orthodox pope. He has no authority to interfere in other Orthodox churches.

2. Easter sunrise services were invented by PROTESTANTS, the Moravian Brethren, to be exact.

The Eastern Churches all have their Paschal Liturgy at MIDNIGHT.

God also said not to bear false witness, like you do.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/19


mike, nowhere does the Bible say the pope is the Antichrist.

And at no time have I denied that I worship the Risen Sun of Righteousness, Christ Jesus Himself.

Why don't you?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/19


you obey MAN than God. the WORD of GOD says this, but you listen to man.

Peter says in Acts 5:29 ...obey GOD than man.
btw the pope is uniting with your orthodox & the bible says that the WHOLE WORLD will worship the beast. it will not be tomorrow but IT will happen bec God said it. oops you don't obey GOD but obey man. forgot about that.

your SUN god is RISEN.
---mike on 5/17/19


Mike said, "of course that is what you will say. when presented the truth, your tactic is to play ignorant.
the pope is now trying to unite with your orthodox-pope even spoke in congress in 2015...."


Mike, Cluny is ORTHODOX, and not Catholic. While it is my prayer that ALL pre-Reformation churches will come back into Communion with each other, it hasn't happened yet.

Also, there is no Orthodox Pope!

Please list any Pope of any of the Orthodox Churches outside of Patriarchs of Alexandria.

The title pope continues to be used by Alexandrian bishops, both the Coptic Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Patriarchs of Alexandria are known as the "Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria".
---Monk_Brendan on 5/17/19


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\\
of course that is what you will say. when presented the truth, your tactic is to play ignorant.
the pope is now trying to unite with your orthodox-pope even spoke in congress in 2015 & tony palmer united with copeland.\\

Just what do you mean by "orthodox-pope?"

Like "neat garbage" or "underwear for the deaf," your term has absolutely NO referent.

In other words, it's meaningless.

BTW, why did you post this on the thread about Noah?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/16/19


David, Genesis 6:9 These are the Generations of Noah. Noah was( Past Tense) a JUST MAN and perfect in his generation, and Noah walked with God.
Nothing indicates it was arbitrary WHATSOEVER.

JUST in the OT is one who is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH was first stated in the OT. Hebrews 11 state this fact....BY FAITH ABEL offered a nore excellent sacrifice than Cain , BY WHICH HE OBTAINED WITNESS THAT HE WAS RIGHTEOUS God testifying of his gifts and by it he being dead yet speaketh. Now Hebrews says it was a BLOOD sacrifice, Hebrews 12:24.

TODAY we cannot offer what Abel offered, from an animal for oursin...but we can surpass this by putting our faith in Jesus Sacrifice for us.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/19


Please quote my EXACT words where I "glorified the pope". Otherwise, you stand before God as a slanderer.

When will you grasp the fact that I'm Eastern Orthodox?

Christ is risen!

of course that is what you will say. when presented the truth, your tactic is to play ignorant.
the pope is now trying to unite with your orthodox-pope even spoke in congress in 2015 & tony palmer united with copeland. slander. you hate the commandments of God.
your SUN god is risen.
---mike on 5/15/19


Joseph
So you believe, it was the character of Noah that brought him Grace? He walked with God, meaning he lived his life in obedience, to God.

I believe this too. When I teach Grace, how one receives Grace, I use the example of Noah. It was Gods Grace, that saved this man and his family. And the same Grace which saves us. Examples make the difficult, easy to understand. Unfortunately, most have doctrines without any examples.

The vast history of Gods relationship with Man in the Old Testament stories, reveals much of the New Testament teachings. That is of course, if you believe the God of Noah, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob is the same God who will save us.
---David on 5/3/19


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"Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" because he was "perfect" (undefiled, without spot) "in his generation", (lineage or pedigree), and he "walked with God".
---joseph on 5/2/19


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