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Alabama Abortion Law

Top christian leaders say that the new Alabama abortion law are too strict and goes too far. Aren't God's laws a whole lot more strict?

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 ---Steveng on 5/17/19
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Nicole_Lacey:

God tells Samaria will happen BECAUSE of their attitude. This is a cause-and-effect thing. Pregnant women would be disemboweled - either because of a specific judgment of God made at that time, or as a consequence of natural law God instituted in the beginning. So which is it?

In both cases, their "holy innocent" children would be killed by no fault of their own, and those deaths will be based on decisions God made, either then, or at the beginning of time.

God didn't "allow" children to die in the flood. HE SPECIFICALLY SENT the flood. He COULD have sent a plague that killed only sinners (like he sent to Egypt to target only firstborn), but he didn't.
---StrongAxe on 6/14/19


StrongAxe, please read the whole chapter of 13th of Hosea.

God is telling Sameria what will happen to them. He DIDN'T order Israel to rip out babies from Samaria's wombs.

As you wrote. That's isn't nice.

//God commanded Israelite troops to "rip up" pregnant women.---StrongAxe on 6/13/19

//the Flood, which, except for 8 adults, killed all men, women (including pregnant ones), and children.//

Again, God allowed people and babies to die by the flood. He didn't kill them out right as you are WILLING to allow mothers to kill their own babies.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you are right and God is wrong.

Because you THINK babies won't eat you deemed it OKAY to KILL THEM.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/14/19


Cluny:

I don't know. I leave biology and medicine to those who are actually trained in those fields. I don't ask a doctor how to pray, nor a priest how to perform an appendectomy.


Nicole_Lacey:

Don't you get it? 50%+ percent of fertilized eggs don't implant TOTALLY INDEPENDENT of womens' actions, without any sharp spears. It's how nature works. This also happens in undeveloped nations without access to birth control.

Regardless of being "holy innocents", God allows AT LEAST HALF of them to die by the laws of nature.

PICK YOUR PARADIGM. If you pick the Bible as your reference, understand God cares less about babies than you do, since he kills half of them. Are you holier than God?
---StrongAxe on 6/14/19


StrongAxe, babies are not implanting because WE are disobeying God and killing the babies.

I can't lay a trap with sharp spears and blame God when someone falls on them spears can I? NO

//I said nothing about Herod.//

You said God didn't care. **God didn't care about innocent unborn---StrongAxe on 6/13/19

We call the babies who died for Jesus the 'Holy Innocents. Remember? It seems you were not paying attention when you practiced your Catholic Faith?

//BY LAW, the baby pays the price for the mother's adultery and lying.//

REALLY?

So according to StrongAxe's Rules, it's okay for babies to die for their father's raping their mother.

But nooooo, how dare God think He is greater than StrongAxe!
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/14/19


Thanks for answering my question, StrongAxe.

Now, how did these people reach their conclusion? One cannot see a brand new zygote to know where it goes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/19




Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Abortion is a deliberate action. Intentionally seeking to kill a baby.

God DESIGNED laws of nature, and by those very laws 50%+ of fertilized eggs don't implant, so 50%+ of conceived human beings are killed shortly after conception.

I said nothing about Herod. Why did you bring him up?

If a pregnant wife lied and said she didn't commit adultery, she miscarries, and her baby dies. BY LAW, the baby pays the price for the mother's adultery and lying.

Hosea 13:16 curses Samaria for rebelling against God - infants dashed to pieces, pregnant women ripped up.

Also, don't forget the Flood, which, except for 8 adults, killed all men, women (including pregnant ones), and children.
---StrongAxe on 6/13/19


Cluny:

10th grade biology doesn't say anything about when a soul enters a body.

Google: fertilized eggs fail to implant

UCSF Medical Center: Conception: How It Works
In nature, 50 percent of all fertilized eggs are lost before a woman's missed menses.

NCBI: Early embryo mortality in natural human reproduction: What the data say:
A recent re-analysis of hCG study data concluded that approximately 40-60% of embryos may be lost between fertilisation and birth

PBS: NOVA: Life's Greatest Miracle
It's estimated that more than 50 percent of all fertilized eggs fail to develop.
---StrongAxe on 6/13/19


StrongAxe: so God causes more abortions than all other abortions and live births combined.//

I don't know why you are so MAD at God?

Abortion is a deliberate action. Intentionally seeking to kill a baby.

Miscarriages ISN'T abortion.

//God didn't care about innocent unborn whose mothers were suspected of adultery.//

Again, I have to explain your own logic to you.

So, because God didn't STOP Herod from killing boys 2 and under means He didn't care?

//Mom had to drink bitter water that would make her abort.//

No, a wife miscarry if she is LYING. She is claiming she didn't commit adultery.

God is promising the husband he can believe his wife when nothing happens to her.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/13/19


AXE. Provide ACTUAL NUMBERS, as I did on abortion rates in various nations.

Now that Ive replied in kind to your post, I need to ask are you deliberately being dishonest, or are you having difficulties in reading comprehension?

Too often Im having to correct your misrepresentations of my posts.
---Haz27 on 6/13/19


StrongAxe: Who cares about unfertilized eggs? I'm talking about FERTILIZED eggs.//

//no eggs released, no eggs fertilized.//

No, MOST if NOT ALL BCP contains backup plans for fertilization eggs. Because many women on the old BCP where still getting pregnant

BTW, the time the body is confused of being pregnant or not is after an abortion.

//eggs released normally, and fertilized normally - 50% STILL fail to implant.//

Eggs NEVER try to implant itself. It dissolves.

//RU486 ("morning after" pill) stops fertilized eggs from implanting,//

That's Levonorgestrel or plan B.

RU486 is an abortion pill that sheds the baby AFTER she or he has already ATTACHED to the lining of the uterus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/13/19




StrongAxe, I learned what I said in 10th grade biology.

||Regardless of what words you use, 50%+ of fertilized (thus "ensouled" per Orthodox theology) ova, spontaneously abort, so God causes more abortions than all other abortions and live births combined.||

What is YOUR source for you 50% statistic?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/19


Cluny:

You wrote: For every other species that reproduces sexually, it's when the ovum is fertilized.

On what basis do you make that assertion? The Bible itself uses the term "draws breath".

The correct one is "spontaneous abortion."

Regardless of what words you use, 50%+ of fertilized (thus "ensouled" per Orthodox theology) ova, spontaneously abort, so God causes more abortions than all other abortions and live births combined.

God didn't care about innocent unborn whose mothers were suspected of adultery. Mom had to drink bitter water that would make her abort. In several places, God commanded Israelite troops to "rip up" pregnant women.
---StrongAxe on 6/13/19


Law keeping will never change the human heart
---JS1234 on 6/12/19


Nicole_Lacey:

If I say "apples are cheap", saying "oranges are expensive" is not useful.

Who cares about unfertilized eggs? I'm talking about FERTILIZED eggs.

50% is NOT due to birth control. BCP (estrogen) makes women's bodies think they're pregnant, so they don't ovulate - no eggs released, no eggs fertilized.

I'm talking about eggs released normally, and fertilized normally - 50% STILL fail to implant.

RU486 ("morning after" pill) stops fertilized eggs from implanting, but that is a VERY SMALL percentage of birth control.

As for "not feeding your baby outside the womb", Republicans push for babies to be born, yet take away their food stamps outside the womb...
---StrongAxe on 6/13/19


\\
That is a faulty question that has no answer, because it relies on a faulty premise, i.e. "life begins at a specific point in time". \\

For every other species that reproduces sexually, it's when the ovum is fertilized.

Why does this not apply to Homo sapiens?

BTW, I asked my pastor, and he said the Orthodox church teaches that ensoulment happens at the same instant as physical conception.

And for what it's worth, "miscarriage" is not a medical term.

The correct one is "spontaneous abortion."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/19


StrongAxe: I was talking about ABORTION statistics.//

Legal sanction killing isn't according to your definition.

That's like saying 'I am only speaking about male slavery and you brought up women slavery'. Both groups are enslaved.

//euthanasia and abortion are NOT considered the same under the law.//

The outcome is still the same. The method of killing isn't important. 2 people against one

//AT LEAST 50%.. of FERTILIZED eggs fail to implant.//

Unfertilized eggs are NOT trying to implant itself

BTW, 50% is due to birth control. That's why birth control is a mortal sin.

Killing the baby on the 1st day by preventing implantation isn't any different than not feeding your baby outside the womb.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/12/19


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john9346:

You wrote: Strongaxe when does life begin you've yet to answer this in your world view?

That is a faulty question that has no answer, because it relies on a faulty premise, i.e. "life begins at a specific point in time". Equally meaningless are "when you boil cold water, when does it become hot water", or "when you give a poor man a dollar a minute, when does he become a rich man?"

The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" also has no valid answer, since it starts with the faulty premise "you used to beat your wife".

AT LEAST 50% (i.e. 50% or more) of FERTILIZED eggs fail to implant. This IS a majority, not an exception.
---StrongAxe on 6/12/19


strongaxe said, "You can CHOOSE "hot means 100 degrees" and "rich means $1 million" to provide precise answers to my examples, but someone else might come up with diffrent."

I'm listening with all ears???Proove this chapter and verse?

Strongaxe when does life begin you've yet to answer this in your world view?

The 50% of eggs failing to fertilize is an exception not the majority, its illogical to make the exception the rule...
---john9346 on 6/12/19


Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Still proving your earlier statement wrong.

Which of my earlier statements is wrong? Please be specific. I was talking about ABORTION statistics. If you suddenly change the equation and add euthanasia, the numbers may change, but that doesn't make my statement wrong.

Also, euthanasia and abortion are NOT considered the same under the law.
---StrongAxe on 6/12/19


StrongAxe, abortion and euthanasia is the same thing. Someone having an excuse to kill someone else.

People who try to commit suicide are held against their own will. Why? Because it isn't natural to end life.

BTW, THANKS for the correcting my 4%.

Still in comparison with US we don't even have 1/100th of all deaths from euthanasia. Making the Netherlands killing their own citizens greater than us.

Still proving your earlier statement wrong.

***'Euthanasia used for 4.5 percent of deaths in the Netherlands' By MARIA CHENG **That rose to 4.5 percent by 2015. The vast majority 92 percent had serious illness and the rest had health problems from old age, early-stage DEMENTIA or PSYCHIATRIC problems or a combination.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/11/19


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Nicole_Lacey:

Exactly. YOU introduced euthanasia in the middle of a conversation about abortion.

In many cases (about a third), people give informed consent, making decisions about their own lives. But you lump them all in together.

The NL figure is "4% of all deaths are from euthanasia", not "4% of the population dies each year". You're comparing apples and oranges.

The percentage of the population that dies each year is just under 0.04%. Can you imagine ANY country that has a 4% death rate every year? That's one person in 25 dying. In 25 years, the country would be a wasteland! Even if they "left out numbers" that would mean 683 THOUSAND deaths a year, not six thousand.
---StrongAxe on 6/11/19


StrongAxe: Nobody here has been talking about euthanasia,//

Me: They euthanize their citizens everyday.

You: Please provide statistics to substantiate this.---StrongAxe 6/8/19

Euthanasia isn't different because the end result is Death.

Euthanizing severe disable children and those in comas

//The Bible records an example of euthanasia in the death of Saul and his armor bearer//

The Bible also records rapes, adulerties, thefts, and etc.

//Your numbers were off by two orders of magnitude. 6091/17.08M = 0.00036, which is less than 0.04%, not 4%.//

Correct. But the article states 4%. They left out data

Nevertheless they are still killing their own citizens than America. A lot more.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/10/19


Nicole_Lacey:

Nobody here has been talking about euthanasia, so why are you suddenly bringing up this red herring? Euthanasia is a very different ethical issue, since it deals with people who willingly choose to end their own lives, so the whole dynamic of "the guilty murdering the innocent" does not apply. The Bible records an example of euthanasia in the death of Saul and his armor bearer (1 Samuel 31).

Your numbers were off by two orders of magnitude. 6091/17.08M = 0.00036, which is less than 0.04%, not 4%.
---StrongAxe on 6/9/19


StrongAxe, ***In 2016 the number of official cases of euthanasia in the Netherlands was 6,091 which was 4% of total deaths in the Netherlands Death on demand: has euthanasia gone too far? By Christopher de Bellaigue The Guardian

[You know if the GUARDIAN raises a eyebrow it has to be bad]

//NL kills LESS THAN HALF as many as America, yet you still cast blame.//

???

NL population of 17.08 million vs USA population of 329 million.

I don't think so!

Assisted Suicides in the US is around 2797

That comes out to: 0.0008501519756838906% of American citizens euthanized.

4% vs 0.0008501519756838906% MEANS the NL euthanizes more of her own citizens than the US.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/8/19


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Haz27:

Provide ACTUAL NUMBERS, as I did.


Nicole_Lacey:

They euthanize their citizens everyday.

Please provide statistics to substantiate this.

I live in America! Just because Canadians think it is okay to kill people, we don't want your warp sense of thinking in this Country.

I live in America TOO. I don't think it's OK to kill people. NL kills LESS THAN HALF as many as America, yet you still cast blame.

Just because men in the Netherlands beat their women once a day, does that mean American men should follow their lead and cut down their beatings?

If you lived in a country where men murder women, moving to where they only beat them would be an improvement.
---StrongAxe on 6/8/19


//I've repeatedly shown how countries like the Netherlands have much lower number of abortions per capita than USA, but rather than look to them to see how they succeed at that,//

They euthanize their citizens everyday. It doesn't matter to them when they kill a person.

In the womb or in the bed.

Time isn't of the essence.

//conservatives would rather spend their efforts at casting blame.//

I live in America! Just because Canadians think it is okay to kill people, we don't want your warp sense of thinking in this Country.

Just because men in the Netherlands beat their women once a day, does that mean American men should follow their lead and cut down their beatings?

How about no beatings at all?
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/2/19


AXE. I see yet again you're deflecting, this time from NICOLE's point that abortion is killing.

BTW, Netherlands is not the lowest abortion rate nation as you claimed. See my earlier post to you where I quoted figures of nations with far lower abortion rates.

I'm not surprised you would argue in defence of the Left's baby genocide platform, especially when you preach an heretical gospel claiming that those who are ANTI-CHRST get saved simply by doing some ambiguous minimum standard of good deeds.

Remember Gal 1:8,9.
---Haz27 on 6/2/19


StrongAXE: Not true. Despite Roe v. Wade making abortion legal for almost half a century, there are MORE live births than abortions, and the population is INCREASING. Learn some math.//

And you need to learn some facts. Population always grows. Even in China

But we are claiming that population has slowed down a lot.

The Black population should be 33% today. But thanks to Roe VS Wade we are only at 13% from 12% in 1973.

Even the CDC has admitted that MORE Blacks babies are aborted than Black babies born in New York City in the last 5 years.

So we are declining as Margaret Sanger planned.

So your comment about more babies are born than aborted isn't true for all Races.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/2/19


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Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: With the rate you all are killing babies there isn't going to be billions of people for the famine climate to kill anyone.

Not true. Despite Roe v. Wade making abortion legal for almost half a century, there are MORE live births than abortions, and the population is INCREASING. Learn some math. The only country where abortion is causing the population to decrease is China, because they FORCE people to have abortions. No other country does that.

Also, I've repeatedly shown how countries like the Netherlands have much lower number of abortions per capita than USA, but rather than look to them to see how they succeed at that, conservatives would rather spend their efforts at casting blame.
---StrongAxe on 6/2/19


Strongaxe: Destroying the environment also kills, just more slowly.//

No it doesn't. That's what you all think will happen. Just as I think I will lose 40 lbs next year.

Thinking isn't factual.

Abortion killing people is a FACT TODAY.

//What will you say when climate change causes famines that will destroy billions?//

With the rate you all are killing babies there isn't going to be billions of people for the famine climate to kill anyone.

BTW, there isn't ANY reason to kill babies. Not one.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/1/19


john9346:

It is "POSSIBLE" to give "human being" a precise meaning. We "CAN" use it as equivalent to member of the species Homo Sapiens.

Note highlighted words - this is an arbitrary choice. The Bible makes a similarly arbitrary choice - souls become alive when they draw breath.

You can CHOOSE "hot means 100 degrees" and "rich means $1 million" to provide precise answers to my examples, but someone else might come up with diffrent equally arbitrary numbers.

Since 50% of fertilized eggs fail to implant, if life does, indeed, begin at fertilization, then nature (or God, take your pick) is the biggest abortionist - killing off fully half of the human race.
---StrongAxe on 6/1/19


\\
First, over 90% of knowledgeable scientists believe climate change is man-made.\\

I remember in the late '70's the big scare was about heading to another ice age. Even TIME and NEWSWEEK had cover stories about this.

In the '90's it was about the hole in the ozone layer. This eventually took care of itself.

Now it's global warming. But Mars is warming up, too, and there are no people there to blame it on.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/1/19


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StrongAxe, I am Hospice Nurse and know the game.

Both mother and doctor tries to kill the baby. But failed and the baby comes out lamed. But INSTEAD of giving the baby saving medical attention. (BTW, hospice is medical attention. LEFTIES KILLERS PLAYING WITH WORDS AGAIN!)
Only the mother and the doctors gets to DECIDE WHICH medical attention to give to the baby?

Is anyone SHOCKED the 2 people who attempted to kill the baby chooses HOSPICE?

BTW, I STOPPED doctors who TRIED to NOT give appropriate medical care because they FELT their patients was TOO OLD!

What goes around, comes around.

I am talking about you, StrongAxe. You might not have a nurse LIKE me to STOP a young doctor thinking you are also too OLD.
---Nicole_Lacey on 6/1/19


The science of embryology is clear. From the earliest stages of development, the unborn are distinct, living, and whole human beings. Therefore, every successful abortion ends the life of a living human being. (Scott Klusendorf, The Case for Life, Crossway Books, 2009, p. 35.)
sue:

Although life is a continuous process, fertilization (which, incidentally, is not a moment) is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte. (Ronan ORahilly and Fabiola Muller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd ed., New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001, p.8.)
---john9346 on 6/1/19


It is possible to give human being a precise meaning. We can use it as equivalent to member of the species Homo sapiens. Whether a being is a member of a given species is something that can be determined scientifically, by an examination of the nature of the chromosomes in the cells of living organisms. In this sense there is no doubt that from the first moments of its existence an embryo conceived from human sperm and eggs is a human being. (Peter Singer,
---john9346 on 6/1/19


A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm unites with a female gamete or oocyte to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.
Keith L. Moore and T.V.N. Persaud, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998) p.2.
-
---john9346 on 6/1/19


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john9346:

First, over 90% of knowledgeable scientists believe climate change is man-made. Most "scientists" who oppose this are in the pockets of the fossil industry lobby, who are hurt if people pursue renewable energy source. Also, the politicians that are most avid climate-change deniers receive plenty of lobby money from that industry, calling their bias into question.

Second, 50% of fertilized eggs don't implant, so 50% of so-called "living human beings" are aborted within the first few days. You can blame nature, or you can blame God for creating natural laws that do this, but it is "natural".

When does life begin? When you boil cold water, when does it become hot? Be specific.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/19


strongaxe:

First, Climate Change is natural, but murdering another human being is not sir.

Now back to my question, Strongaxe
So Environmental Poision is more important than a human (doctor and mother) killing another human *(Unborn Human in the womb)???

Also, in your world view when does life begin?
---john9346 on 5/31/19


Nicole:

If you look at the verses strongaxe tried to use to proove that murdering the unborn is biblical its very grotesque since he doesn't believe them he is trying to make them fit in to his world view...
---john9346 on 5/31/19


john9346:

Destroying the environment also kills, just more slowly. What will you say when climate change causes famines that will destroy billions?


Nicole_Lacey:

Hospice is care and comfort given to people who will die soon and can't be saved medically, to ease their suffering in the time they have left. Matthew 25:36: "... I was sick, and ye visited me ..."

Sometimes, children are naturally born with horrendous birth defects, and won't survive long. Their doctors, knowing their actual medical conditions and viability, are in a position to know. Armchair ethicists in their ivory towers are not. It's easy to sit in a cloud and condemn people on the ground without actually knowing their personal situation.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/19


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kathr said, "I agree Samuel. No one wants to address the horrible murder of children, mothers fathers, pregnant mothers who miscarry because of environmental poisions and illegal practices we have in this country...contamination of buried nuclear waste etc."

So Environmental Poision is more important than a human (doctor and mother) killing another human *(Unborn Human in the womb)???

Readers take note of this...
---john9346 on 5/31/19


Kathr, as I told Strongaxe Leftists plays with words in order to keep abortion and now infanticide.

'HOSPICE CARE' is used instead of infanticide.

WHICH IS THE SAME THING! LETTING A BABY DIE! Claiming if the baby has multiple problems and birth defects.

GUESS WHAT?

If you tear a baby apart it WILL have birth defects!

"Its about a model of hospice care that patients and their doctor have determined is the best course of action, using the best medicine available, and not pursuing something thats futile," he said. "Its not infanticide. Its not indifference. And, it has nothing to do with abortion. It is hospice care, and hospice care can apply to a range of situations,"

AKA INFANTICIDE
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/31/19


Nicole_Lacey:

I established areas of agreement - BOTH sides agree sperm and egg are not human beings, and born babies are. Then, it's easier to focus on the area of disagreement - between fertilization and birth, i.e. at what point one changes to another.

Scientifically, there IS no "single point", just as there is no point where boiling cold water it suddenly becomes hot, or when giving $1 a minute to a poor person he suddenly bcomes rich. All of these are gradual processes.

I showed biblical precedent where life began with breath, and two where killing unborn was not considered murder - and one was REQUIRED BY LAW.

Similar law in GA makes it illegal to get an abortion out of state.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/19


Actually Nicole, that **...** you posted is false. Politifact states it is false.

But we see when the PROLIFE post false claims, it just complicates the issues even more.

Let's stick to the facts and not post false propaganda statements.
---kathr4453 on 5/31/19


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REALLY StrongAxe, you are not dumb.

StrongAxe: I wrote: Before sperm and egg join, they aren't human beings. Once baby is born, it is.
You wrote: No, that's what Leftists want people to believe.

Huh?! Pro-lifers believe that neither a sperm nor an egg are human beings before they're joined. They also believe that human beings are definitely alive after they're born. I agree with this, and so does everybody else.//

You all play with WORDS. Read your words SLOWLY.

You SKIP the middle as all Leftists, so you CAN have abortion legal.

Anti-abortion believe the baby is a HUMAN BEING at conception NOT after they are born.

Do you see the difference between my words and your words?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/31/19


Alabama has the extreme abortion law that imprisons the Abortionist AFTER 6 months the law passed. Alabama CANNOT convict ANYONE in Georgia.

Both the Abortionist and the mother can go to Tennessee, Mississippi, Florida or Georgia to kill the baby and return to Alabama without being arrested.

Alabamians can smoke pot in Colorado. Return to Alabama without being arrested.

New York abortion law changes allow infanticide Herald-Whig: **The state of New York recently passed a horrific new abortion law removing almost all previous restrictions...It also removes protections for babies who accidentally SURVIVE an abortion procedure. Those LIVING, BREATHING BABIES can NOW LEGALLY BE KILLED by one means or another AFTER being BORN.**
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/30/19


Nicole_Lacey:

I wrote: Before sperm and egg join, they aren't human beings. Once baby is born, it is.
You wrote: No, that's what Leftists want people to believe.

Huh?! Pro-lifers believe that neither a sperm nor an egg are human beings before they're joined. They also believe that human beings are definitely alive after they're born. I agree with this, and so does everybody else. Are you trying to tell me children are NOT alive after they're born? The only disagreement is exactly WHEN during these two limits human life begins.

Also, my last message didn't refer to science - it specifically quoted three SCRIPTURES indicating that pre-born were not considered human beings in the Old Testament.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/19


I agree Samuel. No one wants to address the horrible murder of children, mothers fathers, pregnant mothers who miscarry because of environmental poisions and illegal practices we have in this country...contamination of buried nuclear waste etc that has been the cause of so many MURDERS, if you want to get down to,the facts here.

So let's bring back the EPA with reestablishing these safety laws, before sounding the hypocrite about murder.

My nephew died of cancer at 18 for the reasons above.
---kathr4453 on 5/31/19


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kathr said, "
I believe in the 3 exceptions."

What do you mean by the 3 exceptions?

Kathr, what exceptions are there for murdering an Innocent Unborn Human Being made in Yahweh God's Image???

We already know how God feels about murder "You shall not murder." so even though a family and doctor agrees that murdering an Unborn human is justified the Lord God says murder is sin...
---john9346 on 5/30/19


amen Katyr.

The taking away of prenatal care for pregnant mothers by Republican government leaders shows they really don't care about babies. Born or unborn.

They are using Evangelical Christians to give themselves more power.

The more sad things. Is many evangelical leaders want to have the political power they get from helping some leaders. Instead of spreading love they add to the hate in this world. It reminds me of the words Jesus wept.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/30/19


kathr4453:

You wrote: the DA in Dekalb County Ga, .......


Nicole, see..I said Dekalb County GA....why did you miss it?

I have no clue what your other point is, you make no sense.

I was never raped or molested by my father or brother resulting in a pregnancy, so having one of each with my husband was NEVER the issue.

But I will add a 4th...and that is if a fetus is going to be born with no life expectancy due to some horrible situation, like being exposed to these horrible poisons or LEAD in the water where it will lead to a for sure retardation, or physical abnormalities costing the family MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ....usually ending in a broken family where Mom is left holding the bag......
---kathr4453 on 5/30/19


Nicole_Lacey:

Just because the law isn't in effect NOW, it is NOW the law of the state, until challenged.

The Abortionist can move their killings to another State

That won't help in Georgia, since if someone from Georgia travels out of state for an abortion, even to a state where it is legal, they will be arrested when they come back. No state has any legal jurisdiction over acts that happen in other states, but that isn't stopping them from trying.

They can travel to New York and Kill their baby even AFTER birth.

Where are you getting this "after birth" stuff? Killing a child after birth is illegal in ALL states. Cite proof.
---StrongAxe on 5/30/19


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StrongAxe: Before sperm and egg join, they aren't human beings. Once baby is born, it is.//

No, that's what Leftists want people to believe.

Everyone knows exactly when life begins. The poorest Countries and uneducated peoples know WHEN and how babies comes into being.

Why do you think Men and Wonen are separated until marriage?

Don't forget now you Leftists are questioning HOW many genders are in mankind.

Leftists always believe they have science on their side, but refuse to believe the science when it goes their beliefs.

I would like to know when did the Leftists made Secularism their Religion?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/30/19


John I already know what Calvinist's believe. It's been discussed here by many Calvinist's over the years. No one needs you to explain.

You now need to answer the question.

I believe in the 3 exceptions. I don't care of you don't agree with that. I have always believed in the 3 exceptions that that is a personal decision to be made between God Family and Dr.

I also believe there is hypocricy when there is no health care for those already born having taken their breath of life, our Government wants to deny health care to. So this selfrighteous attitude stinks.
---kathr4453 on 5/30/19


john9346:

Better "is an unborn child a human BEING?", hotly debated for ages. Eggs, sperm, arms, kidneys, brains, etc. are human, but don't have rights. Before sperm and egg join, they aren't human beings. Once baby is born, it is.

At what point does that change? Trick question! Boil cold water. At what point does it become hot? No specific "point" for either one.

A "living soul" starts with breath (Genesis 2:7). Everywhere on earth (except Georgia now) by law, citizenship, rights, etc. begin at birth.

A suspected adulteress drank a potion that made her abort (Numbers 5:12-28) - fetus pays for mother's crime.

Fighting men cause a woman to miscarry - penalty is a fine (Ex 21:22-26).
---StrongAxe on 5/30/19


Kathr, Dekalb country is in Georgia not Alabama

Plus, the Abortionists in Alabama are not arrested today or next month. The Law doesn't take effect until 6 months from now.

The Abortionist can move their killings to another State

Plus, if Roe vs Wade were struck down. Abortions doesn't stop. (except for Alabama)

They can travel to New York and Kill their baby even AFTER birth.

I remembered you said you had 2 daughters. Do I need to tell you how that happened?

CLUELESS how they entered your womb? By which method? What role your husband participated in your womb?

According to you, you wouldn't know HOW Soldiers that died in battles while their wives were pregnant COULD STILL be their fathers?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/30/19


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kathr said, "John it's Roe vs Wade. We See that SCOTUS did not overturn a lower court in Indiana. I."

Kathr, is an Unborn Child human yes or no?

If yes then why legalize the murder of that human if no then when does life begin in the womb???

Off topic,, read the 1689 London Baptist Confession on what Calvinists really and truly believe and after you do so i'll be happy to discuss further with you :-)
---john9346 on 5/30/19


kathr said, "John it's Roe vs Wade. We See that SCOTUS did not overturn a lower court in Indiana. I."

Kathr, is an Unborn Child human yes or no?

If yes then why legalize the murder of that human if no then when does life begin in the womb???

BTW, read the 1689 London Baptist Confession on what Calvinists really and truly believe and after do do so i'll be happy to discuss further with you :-)
---john9346 on 5/30/19


John it's Roe vs Wade. We See that SCOTUS did not overturn a lower court in Indiana. I

I'm also interested in how Calvinism factors here. If we are all ROBOTS with no free will, and EVERYTHING is exactly how God has ordained it, whY do we even have legalized abortions?
---kathr4453 on 5/29/19


strongaxe said, "The strategy is to pass (patently illegal per Roe) laws that will be appealed, and immediately lose. These will be appealed higher and lose, and finally appealed to the Supreme Court, in the hope that the new court will use it as an opportunity to overturn Roe."

Yes, to see Row vs Way over turned thats my prayer the day when legalized medical murder ends...

May the Lord grant...
---john9346 on 5/29/19


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Strongaxe, yes I'm aware why all this is happening. Nicole made the comment.." .it's already a law" .... Well, not according to one of our County DA's office, who said there will be no arrests or prosecutions in Dekalb county because the state law was illegal. Maybe this is happening all over these other states too, I don't know. And maybe because they made these laws so extreme, they will end up shooting themselves in the foot. I believe this is what Pat Robertson was saying.

It's not the first time this has happened, and interestingly enough even when SCOTUS was dominated by a conservative court....it still didn't overturn. Many laws were made that made things more difficult....but no complete overturning.
---kathr4453 on 5/29/19


kathr4453:

You wrote: the DA in Dekalb County Ga, said she will not prosecute anyone in her County because the law is illegal. This should get interesting.

Of course it is, as Roe v. Wade is currently the law of the land, regardless of whether people think it should be or not. The reason we are seeing this rash of laws being suddenly passed is that, because of Mitch McConnell's obstructionism, the Supreme Court now has a majority of conservative judges.

The strategy is to pass (patently illegal per Roe) laws that will be appealed, and immediately lose. These will be appealed higher and lose, and finally appealed to the Supreme Court, in the hope that the new court will use it as an opportunity to overturn Roe.
---StrongAxe on 5/28/19


Strongaxe, the DA in Dekalb County Ga, said she will not prosecute anyone in her County because the law is illegal. This should get interesting.
---kathr4453 on 5/28/19


Its contradictory hypocritical and inconsistent that those claiming to be Christians are more concern about protecting murderers (women an girls) as oppose to protecting and guaranteeing the life of the Unborn Persons inside of them live.

God said, "You shall not murder."

Why isn't what "God says." enough for some???
---john0john9346 on 5/28/19


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Kathr: Alabama could become like Ireland was years back, punishing pregnant girls and women out of wedlock//

Who is punishing pregnant girls?

Did you READ the law?

ONLY THOSE WHO CONDUCT THE PROCEDURES ARE PUNISHED!

I guess since you want babies to die, you will also lie about the bill.

Since Black babies are KILLED 5 times more than White babies, it means that Alabama is the least RACIST State in United States!

//Nicole excuses, because there was no money to fund these homes for unwed mothers, claiming it was all the fault of Protestants....//

NO I DIDN'T!

I said Protestants WOULDN'T help bury the babies, but have the NERVE to complain how the babies were buried.

Get it right!
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/28/19


Or Alabama could become like Ireland was years back, punishing pregnant girls and women out of wedlock, by locking them away in wash houses, where we see these types of homes were all over Ireland with graveyards of babies, one place as many as 800 flushed down a septic tank, Nicole excuses, because there was no money to fund these homes for unwed mothers, claiming it was all the fault of Protestants....

Today Ireland, With a Catholic stronghold has legalized abortion. Health Act 2018.
---kathr4453 on 5/28/19


Georgia's new abortion law is so far-reaching that someone who travels to another state (where it is legal) to obtain an abortion can be imprisoned when they get back.

Think about this for a moment. There are NO other laws like this in ANY state, where one state presumes to outlaw something legal done entirely in another state. Can you imagine if gambling is outlawed in your state (as it is in most states), flying to Las Vegas to gamble would get you arrested back home?

Yes, there are some federal laws like that (e.g. interstate flight to avoid prosecution) but no state has the right to make such impositions on another state.


Nicole_Lacey:

God literally gave the Ten Commandments to MOSES to give to Israel.
---StrongAxe on 5/28/19


Now all we need to do is wait for the JW 's to taking control of Alabama's government and blood transfusions will be illegal, OR if the SDA CHURCH gains control of the Alabama state government , men and women will be executed for breaking the Sabbath. Just like the Puritans burned folks at the stake, on the whims and hysteria of anyone who made an accusation.......and seeing they also outlawed Christmas trees, fining anyone who had one, encouraging neighbor's to spy and turn in anyone who put up a Christmas tree.
---kathr4453 on 5/27/19


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steveng said, "Top christian leaders say that the new Alabama abortion law are too strict and goes too far. Aren't God's laws a whole lot more strict?"

First, anyone who thinks its going to far to stop a murderer (a pregnant woman) isn't a Christian any way...

Next, John the apostle moved of the Holy Spirit answers your question, "In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,"

Steveng, God's Laws are freedome not bondage...
---john9346 on 5/27/19


David, I appreciate your post. Interestingly enough even in the OT, the Jews didn't force the law of Moses on the pagan Gentiles around them. We are not a theocracy, and that is something many misinformed Christians can't get through their head. Alabama does not believe in the separation of Church and State. They believe the state is in submission to the Church. Our constitution puts neither in submission to the other. Just like at the time of the reformation, it's not gonna end well.
---kathr4453 on 5/26/19


David: in Alabama, Christians were the ones pushing to keep the Law of Moses in their courts?//

No, the 10 Commandments of God. The 10 Commandments are NOT from Moses.

Moses were given the Commandments to give to the people

The Commandments still apply to us.

How can you change the word 'God' to 'Moses'?

//According to Paul, Isn't it true that we are not under the Law of Moses? Do you see the Christian hypocrisy? (Acts 13:38-39)...from which ye could not be justified by the Law of Moses.//

Okay, the 10 Commandments are not called the 10 Commandments of Moses.

Jesus commands us not to Kill. 5th(6th) Commandment given from His Father not His Servant.

Upset with Alabama's abortion law?
---Nicole_Lacey on 5/26/19


Cluny
I had (Acts 13) in mind when I posted. Isnt it true, in Alabama, Christians were the ones pushing to keep the Law of Moses in their courts? According to Paul, Isn't it true that we are not under the Law of Moses? Do you see the Christian hypocrisy? They expect others to keep Laws, they do not have to keep.

(Acts 13:38-39) Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this Man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins, and by Him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the Law of Moses.
---David on 5/21/19


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Actually, David, every state has laws against perjury, slander, theft, and murder.

These are the only three of the Decalogue that has legal force.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/19


Steven
Confusing to say the least. A few years back they fought to get the Ten Commandments (Laws they are not under), put into their court houses.

Consider the source
---David on 5/20/19


I was born and raised in Alabama.

I say more power to them.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/19


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