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Baptism Spiritual Effects

A couple of more questions about baptism.

1.What are the spiritual effects of water baptism? What are its fruits?

2. Where does the Bible say that water baptism is a public testimony you make to others?

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 ---Cluny on 5/29/19
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David, let me add delusional...as you never taught me this fact. You accused me without proof, I rebuked your false accusations.... Therefore I TAUGHT YOU ...HOPEFULLY TO STOP LYING AND ACCUSING.

The very FACT that we are created IN CHRIST JESUS unto good works that God has before ordained that we should walk in.....should have been enough for even a simple minded person to comprehend.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/19


No scripture teaches once we become sons that we no longer serve the Lord.---kathr4453

Kathryn
I am glad I was able to teach you this fact. You are most welcome.
---David on 6/14/19


David, Since you want to still be under the law, Gal 4, still having a vail over your eyes..2 Cor 3, trying to establish your own righteousness Romans 10, you are a Pharisee as we see in scripture who murders and sets out intentionally to murder those who's faith is in Jesus Christ who profess HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. Scripture is steeped with your kind...and your behavior and words expose you.

My conversation is over with You David. You twist, falsely accuse, make up things to accuse....and it's getting sickening. I thought the lesser was to call you stupid.....the fact is...you are EVIL. Much worse. You are clearly an enemy of the CROSS. Go ahead and throw a tantrum...it's expected of you.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/19


Galatians 4:7
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

No scripture teaches once we become sons that we no longer serve the Lord.

Did you not read the verses I posted? Do you not know it has to do with our POSITION and not our activity? Did Paul who claimed to be a son not also say he serves the Lord. Can't you read the text to get it's understanding rather then make up garbage?
---kathr4453 on 6/13/19


David, I'll bet even posting rather than asking you to look up, you still will willfully refuse to either read or believe. You either believe it or not. I'm not going to force feed you..and then watch you spit it out like a rebellious child.


Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

That's me defined above David. I don't apologize for it either.
---kath453 on 6/13/19




To become a son/ daughter does not say we no longer serve the Lord. HOW UTTERLY STUPID YOUR COMMENT IS.-Kathr

Excuse me..that utterly stupid comment did not come from me, it came from you. Read your own words below.I was merely trying to make sense of your mental giantess.

Since I've received Jesus Christ, I am a SON and no longer a servant.---kathr4453 on 6/11/19
---David on 6/13/19


You were once a follower of Jesus Christ, but then God made you a Son, an heir to his throne. And as an heir, God is no longer your master. Will you also sit at the right hand of God?
---David on 6/12/19


David, when you FIRST acknowledge your comment here is your own foolish thinking not in scripture and apologize for it.....maybe we'll talk. But every time I catch you in a lie or false ststement....you just snake around it with another approach. Not buying it. To become a son/ daughter does not say we no longer serve the Lord. HOW UTTERLY STUPID YOUR COMMENT IS. it's really hard for me to relate to mental midgets. Sorry!
---kathr4453 on 6/13/19


\\It sounds like all denominational "churches" for each "church" places a burden on each of their members which include each denomination's rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.\\

And you never do that in the worldly denominational "church" of Steveng, do you?

Who said that YOUR interpretaions of the Bible were the correct ones?

I don't find the Eastern Orthodox Christian lifestyle a burden at all.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/13/19


Kathryn
You said, you were no longer Gods servant. I was attempting to steer you away from this foolish teaching, by asking a pointed question. You took the point, but you stay on course.

So, I will try some logic.
Do you know who can call Jesus, Lord? .....His servants!!
A servant is not someone who calls him Lord, but is one who makes him Lord....by doing what he tells them to do?

(Luke 6:46) And why call ye Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? You call him Lord, but you can not make him Lord because of your No Works Doctrine. Turn from it and follow Jesus, not Jimmy Swaggart.

I am not a Mormon, but I find Truth in multiple denominations. So I guess that makes me a religious Mutt.
---David on 6/13/19


Steveng, I understand what you are saying about LOVE, as it is evaporating from everywhere. And having a president now as supposedly a representative of Christianity really brings that home, as we see more division and name calling and retaliation .....and many now are following his pattern rendering evil for evil. Also setting a pattern that one can be so arrogant as to think they are above the law, setting a horrible pattern for our younger generation to follow. We already see those who follow him are also,disobeying the law....because they think he is giving them permission....showing HATE towards those doing their job. Times are going to get more evil.

Do you have to belong to a denomination to be saved...NO.
---kathr4453 on 6/13/19




Here's the bottom line I'm seeing, that also correlate with 2Timothy 3 and end times...where we see love waxing cold described in detail in 2 Timothy 3. Examples flow down from the top. Any group now, who has the same mindset as our President...( they're out to get me mentality) will follow his example of thumbing their nose at the laws that govern. Take any particular group who feel persecuted....and feel wrongly accused, then follow in Trumps mindset as though this is the way ....leaves nothing but rebellion and chaos everywhere. I see this as the very axis of evil...

We have laws in our country and no president is above the law. We do not have Kings, or Dictators in control......no matter how deranged one might think they are.
---kath453 on 6/13/19


kathr wrote: "Using the Word of God in forcing verses here and there to try to fit this foul doctrine.."

It sounds like all denominational "churches" for each "church" places a burden on each of their members which include each denomination's rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.

Christians today make living a christian lifestyle complicated. Can a person be a christian without being a member of a denominational "church?"

Love, as in the verb form and from the heart, is the ultimate commandment spoken of by Jesus. Unfortunately, love has practically evaporated form the face of this world.
---Steveng on 6/12/19


Also Steveng, Gods word is not still changing. Scripture always prophecied there woud be a change. The Promise of the NEW COVENANT was fortold in the OT. So we can put our faith in that it has come to pass.

Religions like Mormonism have never been in scripture in any way shape or form. Using the Word of God in forcing verses here and there to try to fit this foul doctrine ..is what all cults do. And when shown its taken out of context...they always get nasty about it.

But to say we are still under the Law...scripture clearly states we are not. To say the Church is Israel, again...it says we are a NEW CREATION ..totally NEW. Its just folks only want to believe what they want to believe instead of what God said to believe.
---kathr4453 on 6/12/19


2 Corinthians 6: 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

not 2 And 6:18....a mis -post below. Posting the whole verse as it is most significant.

If Mormons tell you we have the same beliefs...WE DO NOT.

And one David in his pride and envy will mutilate because obviously he is stating he is not a son. ....no wonder he doesn't understand the deeper things of Salvation by GRACE. ITS GRACE that brought us to becoming sons and joint heirs with Christ. That was NEVER promised to earthly Israel under the law.

And when Jesus said you will no longer be servants but sons....Steveng, reiterates chria9296 Hebrews 7:12 verse.
---kathr4453 on 6/12/19


Why even study the scriptures if God's word and his laws change all the time?

Chria, please read the entire chapter of Hebrews7. Read it slowly.
---Steveng on 6/12/19


David, What a perversion of your understanding of sons and heirs. Hebrews 12:7-8 says you are either a son or an illigitimate. NO SCRIPTURE states what you just posted. I can't help your corrupted understanding of Jesus words John 8:35 fulfilled in Galatians 4:7 Paul reiterating what Jesus promised. 2 For 6:18, Gal 4:5-6, Phil 2:15, Heb 2:10, 1 John 3:1-2.

No David, YOUR BELIEF shows your false beliefs not mine. Those IN CHRIST are already seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST. EPHESIANS 2:6,

Why are you so hell bent on falsely accusing me, or perverting scripture? Envy perhaps? My beliefs are clearly stated in scripture. It has nothing g to do with protestants...but BELIEVERS IN THE WORD OF GOD, you clearly show you are not.
---kathr4453 on 6/12/19


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So actually David, God is my FATHER, as I also showed in those many scripture you probably will ignore. However it would behoove you to look up every one and pray on each one.

It's funny how you say it has to be something Jesus taught , then argue against what Jesus taught.

It's obvious David you have a grudge on your shoulder, continually opposing every verse of truth ...and adding your own twisted interpretation of something never said..but possibly something your Mormon Church teaches against Christians, placing yourselves superior, by some false premise.....not very clever. But something SATAN loves doing.

Now show me where Protestants believe your twisted idea of our being sons and heirs?
---kath453 on 6/12/19


Since I've received Jesus Christ, I am a SON and no longer a servant. ---kathr4453

Kathryn
I fearfully suspected this of the Protestant doctrines, but you are the first to confirm this. I must admit, That does explain your doctrine.

So You were once a follower of Jesus Christ, but then God made you a Son, an heir to his throne. And as an heir, God is no longer your master. Will you also sit at the right hand of God?
---David on 6/12/19


Steveng, I know you have issues learning to rightly divide the Word of God. Firstly we see in scripture THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH. But from the very beginning of time we see in the OT...THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.

I also presume you are a sabbath keeper and that is why you hold your views.

The physical law has you physically keeping the sabbath....however Hebrews 3-4 explain under the NT, we ENTER HIS REST...which can only be done BY FAITH IN HIM. The Most awesome part of the NT or New Covenant is having that PEACE with God and PEACE OF God that passes all understanding, and SURPASSES all understanding as one experiences Ephesians 3:14-21. Keeping the LAW will never bring you there. Only GRACE WILL.
---kathr4453 on 6/12/19


One thing I've noticed here that is a contrast between the law keepers and those of the Grace Keepers.


The Law Keepers are those who put their efforts on man loving God. The Grace Keepers are those who proclaim the LOVE OF GOD to man.

Romans 5, Ephesians 3 just to name a couple places...but John 3:16....for God so loved HE GAVE. You see, PRIDE cannot accept this love. PRIDE feels it must earn it.....GRACE however knows it cannot earn Gods love, but simply receive it through His Son, Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-10 .
---kath453 on 6/12/19


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Steveng,

"God's laws never change"

So your interpretation of heb 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
---chria9396 on 6/11/19


kathr wrote: "I live in the NT under a totally different Covenant...l"

All of scripture is relevant. God's laws never change. God's word never changes. When Jesus and the apostles were teaching, from what scriptures were they teaching from since the NT was not written yet. The difference between the OT and the NT is that the OT was more of a physical nature, but the NT is of a spiritual nature. Same laws different use.

For instance, in the OT if a person murdered someone, that was a sin. In the NT, even if you THINK about murdering someone it's a sin. That's coming from the heart.

God is looking within the heart of man to populate the soon-to-come kingdom of God.
---Steveng on 6/11/19


Here's the way it goes. Those who are Christ's , who have obeyed Romans 6:10-17 ...re to yield....aka SURRENDER your members as those alive from the dead unto God, God promises to fulfill these promises in you, THAT SIN WILL NO LONGER HAVE power/ dominion over you.....
AND God working in you to will and to do of His good pleasure is evidenced by: Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
---kathr4453 on 6/11/19


David, who was Paul talking to in Romans 2? Those who REJECTED the Lord? Those who worshiped the creature more than the creator? Those who seared their own hearts? Or those who received Him, believe in Him, have faith in Him? Receiving all the Promises that come with Receiving Him?

Since I've received Jesus Christ, I am a SON and no longer a servant. I also have been given a NEW LIFE IN HIM, and HE IN ME. So your verses don't address me.

Do they address you perhaps? Also David, you don't need to BOLD verses....as it does not empower those words more. Maybe a word or phrase to stand out.
---kathr4453 on 6/11/19


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Also read Ezekiel 36. All of it. Prophecied of the NT. Tell me...how many. " IF YOU WILL's" do you capture in that chapter? Now how many "I WILL " ( unconditional ) do you capture?---kathr4453 on 6/10/19

Kathryn
So you believe, Paul was wrong in (Romans 2:5-10)?
But because of thy hardness and impenitence of heart, thou treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life...
---David on 6/11/19


David, I live in the NT under a totally different Covenant than you do. You live by a done away with Covennany. RE: 2 Corinthians 3

"your sin and iniquity I will remember no more...Hebrews 8-10 "

I simply do not live under an old done away with covenant. And under the OT sin was only covered, not done away in Christ. HEBREWS10.

I know Mormons hate the Book of Hebrews. That I can't help you with. But it's a matter of FAITH in believing His Promises. You want to live BC...I live AD.

Also read Ezekiel 36. All of it. Prophecied of the NT. Tell me...how many. " IF YOU WILL's" do you capture in that chapter? Now how many "I WILL " ( unconditional ) do you capture?
---kathr4453 on 6/10/19


NOTHING CAN SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS.---kathr4453

Kathryn
I said, Sin separates us from Gods light. I did not say, his love.
(Isaiah 59:2) But your iniquities have separated you and your God, and your sins have hid His face from you, that He will not hear.

Notice the underscored,...YOUR GOD? Which means, Isaiah said this to Gods children.
Confession of sin removes this separation, this darkness. Confess your sins, and see the difference for yourself.

The greater the darkness, the longer you go without confession of sin, the more noticeable the light will be. It not only reveals sin, but the evil in the world you do not see now. (Isaiah 9:2)
---David on 6/10/19


Does Paul teach one is Crucified with Christ apart from faith, believing Jesus died for our sin? David, those who are crucified with Christ have gone above and beyond faith and repentance...and that is OBEDIENCE....becoming obedient unto death....keeping this mind in you that is also in Christ Jesus....I am crucified with Christ. gal 2:20-21....being made conformable to his death....Phil 3.

Your doctrine stops short of our being COMPLETE IN CHRIST. What you continue to do is state the above is another gospel....WRONG, it's what Jesus was praying about in John 17. It's just that it's over your head...and because it's over your head, you scoff at it.
---kathr4453 on 6/2/19


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Matt 28:19-20 was the great kingdom commission given to the twelve judges of the coming kingdom (Mat 19:28). It's missing the gospel of the grace of God.
Most don't know these were not the final words of Jesus. He sent another Apostle to minister under a higher commission with a greater gospel. (2 Cor 5:18)
Instead of gospel of the kingdom, baptism, and observance to the law, Paul was given a ministry of reconciliation to preach the gospel of the grace of God, explaining how ALL men, without law, water baptism, and a covenant could receive forgiveness and eternal life through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Paul was the first to take the gospel of the mystery meaning of the cross work of Christ.
---michael_e on 6/2/19


kathr4453 wrote: "...Once IN CHRIST we are never separated from God..."

So, you believe in OSAS (Once Saves Always Saved) doctrine.

How do you explain the end time prophesy of "there will be a great falling away from the faith. One must have faith to begin with in order to fall away, eh?
---Steveng on 6/2/19


I believe as a saved, Holy Spirit filled Christian, that the Holy Spirit within me will always be at work in me convicting me of this or that. So the idea that sin in a Christians life separates them from God is not true. Once IN CHRIST we are never separated from God....because Christ is never separated from God. We definitely will be disciplined, but separated from God our Father is AGAIN FALSE DOCTRINE. NOTHING CAN SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS. Now sin does separate an unbeliever from God, because they are not IN CHRIST. WE ARE? Galatians 2:20-21. That's why Jesus came to reconcile us back to the Father.

And when my kids were naughty, I never left them for one second.
---kathr4453 on 6/2/19


David are ALL believers still in sin? Or just some? If it's ALL, THEN YOU SAY ROMANS 6 is not one of the PLETHORA of examples ---kathr4453

Kathryn
No, but many are.

The problem with not just yours, but most doctrines, is they align themselves with a few passages, like (Romans 6), which may support their teachings, but ignore the majority of New Testament teachings which refute their doctrines.

For example, I tell you what Jesus taught...and you quote Paul, seemly not realizing you when you do this, you undermine the teachings of Jesus Christ, the very teachings from which Pauls emanated.

And you have no witnesses in the New Testament, which supports what you believe Paul was teaching. When I have many.
---David on 6/2/19


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\\ 1. None. Zero
2. It doesn't
---michael_e on 6/1/19\\

michael_e, why did Jesus command something to be done that has no effect at all?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/2/19


....... A believer who is still in sin, must confess sin daily!!!
Why?

Because Unconfessed sin separates us from God and his light. This separation leaves us in the dark, so we can not see the sin, we are to turn away from.
---David on 6/1/19

David are ALL believers still in sin? Or just some? If it's ALL, THEN YOU SAY ROMANS 6 is not one of the PLETHORA of examples ...OR if you say "some".... are you saying only they have to confess daily and the others don't?
---kathr4453 on 6/2/19


The spiritual effect of baptism, is a resulting faith for the remission of sins, and an answer of a good conscience toward God, through an acknowledged confidence in the atoning sacrifice, death, and resurrection of Jesus, the Christ, for the salvation of the man who has been washed by the water of the Word.
---josef on 6/1/19


1. None. Zero
2. It doesn't
---michael_e on 6/1/19


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Cluny
Your question brought me great sorrow. Sorrow, because God made an incredible relationship with him so simple, and it has become this illogical chasm of doctrines, which most will never get out of.

Baptism and repentance go hand in hand in this relationship. But man has given both words..a plethora of definitions, most of which are dead wrong.

Baptism is simply water Immersion and repentance is turning away from sin. Most folks have been baptized, but were simply not taught how to repent. A believer who is still in sin, must confess sin daily!!!
Why?

Because Unconfessed sin separates us from God and his light. This separation leaves us in the dark, so we can not see the sin, we are to turn away from.
---David on 6/1/19


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