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Explain Matthew 6:1-2

Can someone explain Matthew 6:1-2? Esp those who claim works are not needed.

What reward is Jesus talking about esp in Verse 4b

'Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.'

If you are ALREADY Saved, what more can God give you as a reward?

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David, there are probably 1001 different so called churches who say THEY preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, like the JW's or Mormons etc...they all say they do.

Any church who denies salvation is THROUGH THE CROSS aka THROUGH CHRIST, who died for our sin, and rose again for our justification IS A CULT. Since David you keep arguing with me over this point, I accept your acknowledging you are a cult. FINALLY! Now let's move on.
---kathr4453 on 7/10/19

\\ David simply does not know or understand HOW to read scripture. \\

Do you actually think you do, kathr?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/9/19

All truths come in 2-3's and are not ambiguous, as he seems to use the scriptures. This is what CULTS DO.---kat453

If the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a cult..I am guilty as charged.
---David on 7/10/19

The problem I have with David is his taking random verses out of context, thinking they are HOW TO GET SAVED, verses, rather than seeing these are verses addressing THE SAINTS...MEANING THOSE ALREADY SAVED.

I'll also bet he's never read Romans 5-8 together uninterrupted in one sitting, just as Paul wrote the churches. Pauls letters are not "one hit wonders" like some Confucius says one liners. David simply does not know or understand HOW to read scripture. All truths come in 2-3's and are not ambiguous, as he seems to use the scriptures. This is what CULTS DO.
---kat453 on 7/9/19

\\With the RCC who alone believe God only gives to POPES who then pass down to the little people..\\

That is not the teaching of the RCC.

Doesn't it bother you to expound upon things that you know nothing about?

Also anyone who makes up garbage, like that silly girl who was the initial author of "The Passion of the Christ"\\

And just who is "that silly girl?"

BTW, the word is spelled "extra-curricular".

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/9/19

But grace works.

Luke 17:7-10 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken, and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

So should we not be doing our duty?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/9/19

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge, I will repay," says the LORD. 20On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

David, This is about NOT taking revenge, Like TRUMP DOES EVERY DAY, you have no problem with.

Evil/sin "within us" is dealt with by being crucified with Christ...AS THE GOSPEL OF GRACE TEACHES CLEARLY IN ROMANS 5-8. Don't you know Romans 5-8 IS THE GOSPEL OF GRACE, AND WHY Jesus died and rose again?
---kathr4453 on 7/9/19

Since you do not accept the Lords Gospel as the Truth, I will try to show you this elementary teaching in Pauls Epistles. Not easy, It is like trying to teach someone how to count, by starting them off in a Algebra book.

(Romans 12:21) Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Doing good,.... is it an act of Love, or is it an act of Evil?
As an overcomer,...have you not put sin to death?

David, you simply deny the GOSPEL and use OT scriptures before anyone...---kathr4453

Kathryn...your doctrine is not the Gospel. And if you read everything Paul wrote, you will discover he used many examples from the Old Testament. Again, read the Lords Gospel, and make him your Rock.
---David on 7/9/19

Monk I already gave the CORRECT definition of Gnosticism.

Also you may want to refresh yourself in Ephesians 1:17, Colossians 1:9, Colossians 2:3, Proverbs 9:10 Proverbs 1:7 just to name a few places that REFUTE YOUR DEFINITION.

It's something GOD GIVES .

Let's remember. With the RCC who alone believe God only gives to POPES who then pass down to the little people..IS A CULT, would resent God Himself giving to the little people WITHOUT the Pope or priest. So you BULLY and intimidate and execute as with inquisitions all true Christians who didn't have to go through the RCC first.. I know where your coming from Monk and Cluny. NOT HAVING IT.
---kathr4453 on 7/9/19

Also anyone who makes up garbage, like that silly girl who was the initial author of "The Passion of the Christ" who claimed to have extra carricular visions of the horrible death of Jesus,that not even the LORD HIMSELF spoke of in scripture nor those who wrote the Gospels even went into such detail....NOW THATS GNOSTICISM, as some of the RCC mysticism cults are steeped in.

Everything you need to know is right in scripture, but the natural mind cannot grasp or understand what is right in front of Romans 6-8...... BUT GOD have revealed it unto those who are HIS.

Gnosticism is outside of scripture. Like saying LOVE "KILLS" EVIL within.
---kat453 on 7/9/19

Kathr4453 said, \\Cluny, Gnosticism is not having knowledge of God. \\

Wrong again, kathr.

Gnosticism is believing that "divine" knowledge is given to each one of us, individually. There is always a "special" knowledge that you have to receive from an initiate.

The more that you dig, the more questions you have, while you lose all sense of God's grace.

Agnosticism is not caring whether God exists or not.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/8/19

Cluny, instead of telling someone they are wrong, why don't you explain WHY?
---Steveng on 7/8/19

David, you put scripture but that verse does not say love KILLS evil within us. Your imagination says it does, because your imagination wants it to, denying the CROSS, like you continually do. "Perfect love casts out fear " so says John in 1John, but even John never says perfect love KILLS evil within.

David, you simply deny the GOSPEL and use OT scriptures before anyone except Kings Prophets and Priests who had the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Also those in Israel who truly Loved God were already the faithful ones. Of coarse they would hate evil.

Cluny, sorry but your "broad stroke" defining Gnosticism is wrong. Gnostics believed the world was created by a lesser Divine spirit....etc....
---kathr4453 on 7/8/19

Gnostics believe anything done in the body, even the grossest sin, has no meaning because real life exists in the spirit realm only.

Second, Gnostics claim to possess an elevated knowledge, a higher truth known only to a certain few. Gnosticism comes from the Greek word gnosis which means to know. Gnostics claim to possess a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plane of existence. Gnostics see themselves as a privileged class elevated above everybody else by their higher, deeper knowledge of God.

Steveng has made no such statement, nor is that what Romans 1:20 is about. Cluny, you have made a FALSE ACCUSATION against another. Apologize please.
---kat453 on 7/8/19

\\Cluny, Gnosticism is not having knowledge of God. \\

Wrong again, kathr.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/7/19

Also David says love kills evil in us. I can't find any scripture supporting this.---kat453

Thats because you only read what Paul wrote.

(Psalm 97:10) Let those who love the Lord hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

Why does God deliver us from the hand of Satan? It is because we love the Lord and hate evil.

I would have given Scripture, but I assumed everyone knew that Love made it harder to do evil to someone you love, than it to someone you hate. The greater the Love...the more difficult to trespass against them.

You dont agree?
---David on 7/8/19

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Tell me, cluny, how did you know that you were a sinner?
---Steveng on 7/7/19

Cluny, Gnosticism is not having knowledge of God. As a matter of fact read Romans 1:20 says that just looking around at Gods creation revealed GOD. Also Romans 1: 18-27 show what happened to many before the flood. Yet Noah, Enoch, Seth ETC stayed firm in their beliefs. There was no scriptures at that time, so NO, knowledge of God is not Gnosticism. We are the exact same humans today.

Please study Gnosticism before making false statements.

The ISSUE is men do not believe Jesus Christ is GOD....who died for our sin and rose again for our justification. the Gospel was first revealed in Genesis 3:15
---kathr4453 on 7/7/19

Also David says love kills evil in us. I can't find any scripture supporting this. What I see is Romans 6, (for some reason David rejects) , which teaches when we died with Christ we died to sin/evil within. Our Flesh aka as our old man, our adam1 has been crucified with Christ Galatians 5:22-25 whereby our New MAN created In Christs RIGHTEOUSNESS, is how we begin IN THE SPIRIT, GAL 3, showing in Gal 5 and Romans 8 is the Only way one's Love is acceptable to GOD.
---kat453 on 7/7/19

Steveng, to say we must have "knowledge" or "understanding" for God to work in our lives is the heresy of gnosticism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/6/19

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FAITH COMES BY HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. Gods WORD takes the initiative, we respond to the Word, just as we see in the beginning if ACTS , the Apostles preached Jesus Christ, who died and rose again for the forgivness of SIN, ....and it appears that day over 3000 believed and were added to the Church. We see Philip talking to the Eunuch, where the Eunuch was reading from Isaian 53 asking...WHO ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT, whereby Philip tells him, Jesus is who that chapter is about...and more fully explains the GOSPEl. Which the GOSPEL is 1Cor 15:1-4. Jesus Christ who died for our sin and rose again for our justification. BELIEVING IS OBEYING, leading to salvation.

So NO, Cluny and Nicole's twist on their version of Calvinism is WRONG.
---kathr4453 on 7/7/19


1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand,
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
---kat453 on 7/7/19

Our salvation relies upon our relationship with God the Father, which is founded upon making Jesus Christ our Lord. Faith,... in the New Testament,... means having faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ. That by following his teachings, we can be saved.

What do we learn from Jesus?
Simply put, The Lords Gospel teaches us how to Love. And when we put what we have learned into practice, God will love us.

Love, literally,.....kills the evil which lives in us. Which is harder, kill someone you Love...or to kill someone you hate? To steal from someone you love...or from someone you hate? Obvious answers, which prove Love is what causes us to overcome Evil.

Love is how God heals a stony heart. (Ezekiel 11:19)
---David on 7/7/19

Before one is baptized, one must repent of their sins. Before one can repent of their sins, one must have knowledge that they are sinners. And that comes from the hearing of God's word. Babies and infants have no knowledge or understanding of God, Jesus, salvation, repenting, the gospel, sinning, etc. How can an infant repent if he does not have knowledge or understanding?
---Steveng on 7/6/19

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I guess my last post didn't make it. Oh well.

I posted Romans 16:25-27 for David. That's my final answer to him re his question to me.

For Cluny and Nicole, having your own definition of Grace, it would appear that every single baby is saved by Gods Grace, since God is not a REPSECTOR of persons, and babies can't choose, or exercise faith. So you both either believe in universalism, OR you believe ONLY babies who are baptized are saved.

I see no scripture that supports your theory.....and find it hard David agrees with that since he believes one must demonstrate works with faith...of which infants can do neither.

You are FREE to make up your own beliefs.....and I will stand by the Word of God.
---kathr4453 on 7/6/19

Even in the OT, "the Just shall live by faith. ". So what we see is God taking the initiative in creating Israel as His chosen people. They had it all, the Covenants of promise, circumcised the 8 The day, can also be paralleled with infant baptism, the Law, etc, etc. And yet, we see in Romans 10 THEY WERE LOST. Circumcision didn't benefit anything, being Gods elect still did not guarantee salvation. And look, we have so many repeating this very mistake, refusing to learn anything from it. Even Paul thought he was blameless, even as a grown man....boy was he in for the shock of his life. He realized his RELIGION , being elect, etc, did not save him.
---kat453 on 7/6/19

A baby can't accept His Gift. \\


Faith is a RELATIONSHIP in which God takes the initiative.

We know from various passages in the Bible that God beings this before we are ever born.

Yes, I know about Cornelius and Stephanas.

Is there a definition of "family" that excludes children?

The NT also says that the children of Christians already belong to God.

With this truth, why not baptize them?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/6/19

Kathr: A baby can't accept His Gift. The Parents are doing something first, not God.//

They are not being baptized. God isn't given His Gifts/Graces to them.

The baby who DIDN'T ASK is getting the Graces.

So God acted FIRST.

That's like saying when your parents took you to the dentist, the Dentist would REFUSE to treat you because you yourself didn't bring yourself, nor wanted the treatment.

You were forced so he wasn't going to fix your teeth.

//This is GODS WORD and way, how one is saved.//

Then LISTEN TO GOD and not yourself! Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Baptism ISN'T a suggestion.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/6/19

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If I think that God is going to smack me if somehow I fail in some respect regarding what I'm supposed to do, then I am totally off base as a Christian.
---JS1234 on 7/6/19

You speak out of both sides of your mouth. One post you say God chooses,the next say man has to do something first (APART FROM FAITH) to earn Gods favor you call GRACE. This is NOT the definition of GRACE.---kathr4453

Where did I say what I have underscored above?

Its interesting how you can create an argument by lying about what someone actually said. Sad...but interesting.

(2 Thessalonians 1:8) He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

The above...True or False? According to Paul, the man you claim to follow, Says folks who do not Obey the Gospel of Christ, will be punished.
---David on 7/6/19

---Nicole_Lacey on 7/5/19

A baby can't accept His Gift. The Parents are doing something first, not God. Totally nuts. We see Cornelius and family. Cornelius prayed, being a religious man not knowing the way to salvation,...GOD THEN sends an Angel to tell Peter to go to Cornelius home to proclaim the way of salvation, Corneluis and family HEAR THE GOSPEL, believe AND THEN the Holy Spirit comes into them, and THEN after..they are baptized.

I believe GOD KNOWS who is seeking after Him, and is a rewarded of those who SEEK HIM, just as Cornelius and family did. Paul preached, people HEARD THE GOSPEL, some believed, some did not.

This is GODS WORD and way, how one is saved.....not the RCC's way.
---kathr4453 on 7/6/19

The OT was more of a physical nature. The NT is more spiritual nature. Same laws, different use.

Case in point: In the OT, it was a sin to physically murder someone, but in the NT even if you THINK of murdering someone it's a sin.

As for faith and works: faith without works is dead faith.

All laws are still given for it is written "...not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Remember that the NT was not written when Jesus and the apostles were here. All scripture is God breathed.
Love is found even in those who don't believe in Christ.

Once saved always saved is a false doctrine for it is written that in the end days many shall fall away from t he faith.
---Steveng on 7/5/19

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David: But the Truth is, we can want to be saved, but it is God who makes that decision. And the reason that decision is made, is called...Grace.//


I agree, that's the reason the Vatican doesn't like the part of lyrics in Amazing Grace:

'How precious did that grace appear The hour I first believed'

Because it seems We FIRST made the decision before God's Grace to think about being Saved.

Not correct. It's the other way around. God's Grace acts and only than we and choose to be Saved or not.

That's why baby baptisms proves Catholics believes God acts FIRST.

His Grace, His Gift, nothing required from us, but to accept His Gift.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/5/19

\\ But the Ten Commandments are still in the New Testament.\\

Not quite. There is one that is conspicuous by its absence. Can you guess which one it is?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/5/19

It is not only about reward, because we care about others as ourselves, and desire to please our Father because we love Him, not only in order to get a reward.

We need works of "faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6), not merely copy-cat religious acting. But God's love makes us creative for how to love each and every person . . . like how James in chapter two says > using examples of works of personal loving, personal communication with God, helping God's servants personally.
---com7fy8 on 7/5/19

Samuel, the law of Moses was animal sacrifice, the old priesthood, 613 + laws, not just the 10 Commandments that does in fact show us we are all sinners. The Law of Moses was also Prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, as Hebrews shows EVERYTHING God gave Moses to build RE the Tabernacle in the wilderness was a pattern of things in Heaven, and pointed to Jesus Christ, just as the Sabbath Rest did, fulfilled IN CHRIST...Hebrews 3-4.

But the Law, in that it was weak through the Flesh, ..Romans 8:3 was my point. And Galatians 2:20-21 again confirm and support Romans 8. The Law is NOT OF GRACE, (Gal 3) support falling from Grace is going back to live under the law..or going back and living in the flesh...after having begun in the Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 7/5/19

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Dear Kathyr

True we are not under the laws of Moses. We are in the New Covenant. But the Ten Commandments are still in the New Testament. They are not to save us. But to show us right and wrong. I doubt you believe it is okay to worship idols or steal. So being in the new Covenant we walk with Jesus. Read Romans 3 and 6.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/5/19

Acts 20:24 The Gospel of the Grace of God was given to Paul to PREACH. Romans 10:9-10 says, If you believe in your heart God raised Christ from the Dead you are saved.... In the Beginning of Acts...HOW SHALL WE BE SAVED. Ans: REPENT AND BELIEVE. Nothing about ..."and then maybe youll catch the eye of God and Walla find yourself saved..

You speak out of both sides of your mouth. One post you say God chooses,the next say man has to do something first (APART FROM FAITH) to earn Gods favor you call GRACE. This is NOT the definition of GRACE.

You say alot David, but have no scriptures to back up most of your own ideas. You preach your own personal experience, and think everyone MUST have that EXACT same experience. WRONG.
---kathr4453 on 7/5/19

I agree, Samuel
Once you are born again, it is impossible to hate anyone. But before I was born again, though I called myself a Christian, went to church, and believed in Jesus Christ, I hated.

But after 40 years...after being led by one of many false doctrines, I was born again after leaving them, after following the Holy Spirit...for only 6 months. And at that moment, it was as if a shroud of evil was lifted from me, and enabled me to walk in a newness of life.

Many believe, being born again, is our choice. We decide to be saved...and instantly, we are. But the Truth is, we can want to be saved, but it is God who makes that decision. And the reason that decision is made, is called...Grace.
---David on 7/5/19

Colossians 1: 8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God,
11 Strengthened
with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness,

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

SOUNDS like it's more what the Lord has done for us. PRAISE GOD FOR ALL THE THINGS HE HAS DONE. This is GRACE VERSES WORKS.
---kathr4453 on 7/5/19

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I believe in EVERY WORD OF GOD, however not EVERY WORD applies to me. I believe in the Law of Moses, but I'm not under the law of Moses, because EVERY WORD OF GOD has also stated we are no longer under the law of Moses.

There is now no condemnation to those IN CHRIST, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. Romans 8:1. So the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST IN ME has set me free from the law of sin and death.


So, ask yourselves....1) ARE YOU "IN CHRIST"? 2) How did you come to be "IN CHRIST"? 3) WHO and HOW have you been made complete IN HIM?
---kat453 on 7/5/19

LOVE is the fruit of the Spirit, Galatians 5,22-25, that only come via being crucified with Christ. No one can crucify themselves. We bear fruit, some 30 some 70 and some 100, but the Fruit of the Spirit is the Holy Spirit working through you. And no scripture says those who produce the most fruit God will favor MORE than other Christians who produce less whereby He will favor you with His GRACE

So if we are already no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit..."no longer" is referring to those crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE who are now in the Spirit and no longer seen after the flesh, so says Romans 8, we are already CHOSEN IN HIM, and don't have to preform to be chosen again.
---kathr4453 on 7/4/19

Good points David.

I mostly agree.

But to me those who are Born Again work because now they love others and love works for others and for love of GOD. So I agree with you brother.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/4/19

I believe everyone is confused about Grace and Works. It isn't one or the other. It's both.

We can't earn Salvation with just works, nor are we granted Salvation without works.

Wedding at Cana is a prime example.

John 2:5 His mother said to the servants, Do whatever he tells you. 'Do' is an action.

Jesus required 'action' from men to complete His miracle.

John 2:7 Jesus said to the servants, Fill the jars with water, so they filled them to the brim.

They FIRST had do something BEFORE Jesus would change water to wine.

If they REFUSED to do the WORK, Jesus wasn't going to act.

Believing or having the Faith wasn't enough. They had to work to PROVE their Faith. James 2:20
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/4/19

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\\What I clearly see is you all do not believe ALL THE WORD OF GOD, but have chosen only those verses you like. \\

Neither do you, kathr.

And you, too, choose only the verses that you like.

If you did believe ALL THE WORD OF GOD, you'd be Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/4/19

kathr wrote: "...Gospel of the Grace of God..."

There is only one meaning of "gospel" and that means the good new about the soon to come Kingdom of God. Nothing more. Nothing less. The gospel IS the Kingdom of God.

Grace/mercy is what God showed upon his creation. God showed his mercy throughout the entire bible. The same grace/mercy that a parent sometimes shows upon the child.
---Steveng on 7/4/19

Here is my position on how we obtain salvation, so folks dont think I teach we are saved by Works...or by keeping the Law of Moses. And Good Works are needed for salvation.

Good works are acts of Love. Acts of Love towards God...or towards one another. These works do not save you...but they bring you into the favor of God, AKA...Grace.

These Continuous acts of love/ credited righteousness, do not save you...but they cause you to grow in your relationship with God. Grow in his Grace/Favor. It is in this type of relationship with God which causes God to choose us. This is what Jesus taught throughout his Gospel.

We can not see God, so every Work we do for an act of Faith.
---David on 7/4/19

Jesus never demanded works so you could earn salvation. 2Timothy 1:9 says so. Grace is a gift, not of the real question is....WHY DO YOU REJECT PAULS TEACHINGS of GRACE that was given him from Jesus Acts 20:24, AFTER Jesus rose from the dead?

What I clearly see is you all do not believe ALL THE WORD OF GOD, but have chosen only those verses you like.
---kathr4453 on 7/4/19

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Kathr, You just don't want to accept reality of Jesus demanding works so much that if not done you will go to hell.

//..the Gospel of the Grace of God was kept secret but now revealed//

Jesus wasn't a secret. What's so hard about the goats and the sheep parable?

The graces are giving to us to perform the works on behalf of Jesus. BTW, note 'believing in Me isn't mentioned to go to Heaven.

//2 Timothy 1:9 is not Matthew or what Matthew teaches.//

If you truly believe that why are choose to believe Paul over Jesus?

//Matthew is not GRACE or does the word GRACE even exist in Matthew.//

Because Jesus is Grace. All Grace comes from Him.

Since He gives us the Grace should we listen to Him?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/3/19

Nicole, your question above is it's impossible to understand what the question really is.

That's fine if you are wrapped up in Kingdom LAW, as that is what Matthew is about. saved Gentiles will be classed as the residue of men. ..ACTS 15:15-18

However the Gospel of the Grace of God was kept secret but now about the BOC! Who we see in 2 Timothy 1:9 is not Matthew or what Matthew teaches.

We simply have different beliefs Nicole. Matthew is not GRACE or does the word GRACE even exist in Matthew.

John 1:17. Shows the LAW WAS NEVER GRACE.

Colossians 3:1-4 says ..verse 3 says for YE ARE DEAD, and your life is hid with Christ IN GOD.

---kathr4453 on 7/3/19

Do any of you do the good works mentioned in Matthew 25 on a regular basis?
---JS1234 on 7/3/19

There are two resurrections.

The first is upon the return of Jesus when the dead in Christ shall rise and the living in Christ shall be caught up with the dead.

The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ when all the other dead shall rise and be judged from the book of life ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
---Steveng on 7/3/19

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EXCUSE me Kathr, my question is about SALVATION

What is greater of a reward than Heaven?

Why is Matthew 25 so hard to understand?

Jesus is telling them to take their inheritance aka Kingdom AFTER they completed works.

Then Jesus explains the WORKS they have done for the GREAT REWARD called HEAVEN.

BTW, James is saying the SAME thing as Jesus.

"DEAD" means you are going to hell because of NO WORKS.

The order is the same because neither the goats or the sheeps were giving a chance to do a redo of their life.

Don't you think the goats would have started feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, helping the sick in order not to go to hell?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/3/19

I don't think God got a kick out of any of the Apostles, including His Son dying for the defense of the Gospel. Paul said be followers of me the way I am of Christ ..
---kathr4453 on 7/3/19

<>I imagine God gets a kick out of these conversations.---JS1234

Yeah I would imagine, but thats Kathryn. LOL
---David on 7/3/19

So according to Romans 11:6, and 2 Tomothy 1:9, we see SALVATION by GRACE , is not according to our works. However our life AFTER we are saved, produce FRUIT which would also be our works which result in GOLD SILVER AND PRECIOUS STONE. The FOUNDATION OF SALVATION has already been laid...which is Christ Crucified.

Many wonderful UNSAVED folks who don't even believe in Christ much less the deity of Christ do awesome works, good deeds, feed the poor....and that will NOT earn them a ticket to heaven.

Those who believe and teach ANOTHER WAY TO HEAVEN are enemies of the CROSS. And David you appear to be an enemy of the CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/19

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I imagine God gets a kick out of these conversations.
---JS1234 on 7/2/19

Also David, Nicole's question is not asking about salvation , but rewards. She asked why would those already saved need rewards too.

You keep changing the questions in order to promote your false doctrine.

Salvation first, works follow.
James also puts in correct order FAITH without works is dead. It doesn't say WORKS without faith is dead.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/19

Paul States in Acts he was given the Gospel of Grace from the Lord...yes the exact same Jesus in the Gospels. Paul a high IQ person made the following statement. You are free to reject it. I however accept it and believe it.I

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
---kat453 on 7/2/19

As I said David, the Gospel Jesus gave to Paul, ACTS 20:24, is perfectly stated in Ephesians 2:6-10.

It includes our works....which you continually call names and blaspheme against stating its false doctrine.

Faith without works is dead. So just works alone is also dead.

You keep stating works alone gets you saved. I say THATS MORONIC, SINCE NO SCRIPTURE TEACHES THAT. ONLY THOSE WHO CHERRY PICK VERSES HERE AND THERE to think they are making a point are MORONS......very low IQ people. Don't get offended, your HERO Trump loves making that assessment of others you never say offends you. So don't play the hypocrite here and pretend now it offends you.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/19

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Well it looks like Matthew Mark, Luke and John are TOTALLY covered concerning Salvation and our works that follow, Ephesians 2. Only a moron would accuse those saved of not having any works.--kathr4453

We are not the Authors of Salvation. What you fail to understand is Nicole and I are telling you what Jesus taught, and when you dismiss what we say, you are in actuality dismissing Him. So you may want to think before Name calling.

Real mature
---David on 7/2/19

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours, and their works do follow them.

I love this verse...and was so very blessed when the Lord showed me this....reaffirming the only BLESSED WORKS are of those who have died with Christ...aka I am Crucified with Christ, no longer I but Christ in me.

Colossians 3:1-4 will explain as well.

Only those IN CHRIST are KNOWN of God....and He will never say....I NEVER KNEW YOU.

Also you'll want to make sure your works are GOLD SILVER and PRECIOUS STONE...and not wood hay and stubble.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/19


I agree, and this is what I have been telling Haz27 and others for years, but he thinks that makes me a heretic. Go figure!
---StrongAxe on 7/2/19

Yes, excellent point concerning those at the border as we speak. When are You David and Nicole going to go down to the border?
---kat453 on 7/2/19

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The "eternal punishment" in Matthew 25:46, should rather be translated "divine pruning." It's not talking about burning people forever.
---JS1234 on 7/2/19

Excellent point, Nicole!

(Matthew 25) 44They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? 45He will reply, Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. 46Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

This means righteous are those who fed the hungry, gave water to those who thirst, clothed a stranger...etc. AKA...those who love Jesus and keep the Lords commandments. (John 14:21-23)

But again...They do not make their houses on the Rock...AKA...the teachings of Jesus Christ.
---David on 7/2/19

Well it looks like Matthew Mark, Luke and John are TOTALLY covered concerning Salvation and our works that follow, Ephesians 2. Gods plan looks absolutely perfect to me. Only a moron would accuse those saved of not having any works.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/19

-JS1234 ,

Thanks for your posts
---chria9396 on 7/2/19

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Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. - Matthew 6:1,2
---JS1234 on 7/1/19

What are we supposed to be saved from?
---JS1234 on 7/1/19

Very true, David.

Now according to some, works doesn't count for Salvation (Against Jesus' words in Matthew 25.)

In Matthew 25, lack of works sends you to hell.

But works doesn't have anything to do with Salvation???

Tell that to the goats in hell
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/1/19

Jesus also said " store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven". So, one could ask the same thing....if we are saved who needs treasures too?

Isn't there a verse too that what you give up here will be multiplies 10times in heaven? So it appears there will be many in Heaven who's life lived here in obedience to do the will of God even unto death will be greatly rewarded in heaven. But this is above and beyond salvation. Rewards can be earned..salvation cannot be earned. Two totally different issues.
---kathr4453 on 7/1/19

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Jesus did not need Paul to finish Jesus death and resurrection. LOLAROTF?.

Jesus did tell the Apostles...I HAVE MORE THINGS TO SAY TO YOU....but you can't bear them now....John 16:12 ....God revealed many THINGS to Paul, that even Peter said was hard to understand.

Also this question is a lie, since Ephesians 2 states we are created in Christ UNTO GOOD WORKS THAT GOD HAS BEFORE ORDAINED WE SHOULD WALK IN.

These are works ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD. as we also see many will say..."haven't we done this or that in your name ???? and Jesus will say "I NEVER KNEW YOU. "

So just doing good works is no guarantee God knows you....and many will Nash their teeth...

So those IN CHRIST, God KNOWS....
---kathr4453 on 7/1/19

Good question, but the false doctrines represented here are not based on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus said, It is finished...but many believe Jesus was wrong, it was not finished. Jesus needed Paul to finish it. And this is why they use a few passages from Pauls Epistles from which to extrapolate their doctrines.
---David on 7/1/19

Oh, Nicole!

Even as a Baptist, I was taught that we are saved by grace, but REWARDED according to our works.

St. Paul wrote that one star differs from another in glory, and this is how the next life works.

Remember the Lord's parable about servants who were given varying amounts of money, and those who acquired more were rewarded more than
those who acquired less. (Yes, I know the gospels give 2 different versions of this.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/30/19

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