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Jesus Action Rewards

What type of rewards is Jesus giving that will be based on our Actions? Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Fathers glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

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 ---Nicole_Lacey on 7/11/19
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ax: "Where do you get this stuff??? I have NEVER said that!"

You said that vegetarianism in the new earth was one of "the laws that don't apply to us".


"Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath."

Are you a MAN or not?


---jerry6593 on 7/22/19


\\Lent is a man-made tradition.\\

So is having your own copy of the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/19


JS1234:

The key point here is just how people treat their religious beliefs.

"We believe in fasting, so we will fast", "We believe in worshiping on the Sabbath, so we will worship on the Sabbath", and "We believe in vegetarianism, so we will refrain from meat" are all perfectly acceptable examples of religious freedom.

"We believe in fasting, so you should all fast", "We believe in worshiping on the Sabbath, so yo should all worship on the Sabbath", and "We believe in vegetarianism, so you should all refrain from meat" are all unacceptable examples of presumptuous religious tyranny.
---StrongAxe on 7/22/19


When Jesus was tested in the wilderness, no gymnastic training was necessary...KNOWING THE WORD OF GOD WAS, and having The Holy Spirit, and having the wisdom and knowledge that Comes from God to begin with does.

No longer I but Christ who lives in me is where ALL MY STRENGTH comes from. Faith is simply believing God and taking Him at His word. I'm strengthened with all might in the inner man ...Ephesians 3:13-27, and Colossians 1:11 .

FOR HE Is able to do abundantly above and beyond all We could possibly ask or think according to HIS POWER that WORKETH in us, TO HIM BE THE GLORY..VERSE 20

My strength is made perfect in your weakness 2 Cor 12:9 .
---kathr4453 on 7/22/19


I would think that if a group of people want to fast together, that should be okay. I certainly have no objection. I have known Protestants who have gotten together and decided to fast for one reason or another. So why not Catholics or Orthodox?
---JS1234 on 7/21/19




Nicole, for the very last time. Lent is a man-made tradition. I do not need lent to fast, public, private or in a group. Deal with it. Move on.
---kathr4453 on 7/21/19


When a ballerina makes pirouettes that make her look like a spinning top, or a jete that makes her resemble a bird in flight, how was she able to do so, except for the hours and hours spent at the barre doing things that are never shown on stage.

Orthodox fasting is that way. It's gymnastic training for the will to help the soul to soar.

After 2000 years, the Church knows the regimen that brings the best results for most people.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/19


jerry6593:

Where do you get this stuff??? I have NEVER said that! Why do you keep making stuff up?

Vegeratianism was part of the Adamic convenant. It was NOT part of the Noahic covanent, nor the Abrahamic covenant, nor the Mosaic covenant, nor Jesus' covenant. It will also be practiced in heaven after this earth passes away, but THAT covenant isn't in place yet.

Once again, the Fourth Commandment does indeed show love to God. It is His Seal.

No. It is God's gift to mankind. LOVE is God's Soul.

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.
---StrongAxe on 7/21/19


Kathr: lent is not in the bible. Many people fast in private, between them and the Lord ONLY,//

Private fasting ONLY is not true. Matt 9:14-15 Disciples fasted together and often. Jesus said THEY will fast.

'They' ISN'T singular.

//praying for some specific answer or need,//

So, you ONLY fast when you want something from God?

Fasting isn't JUST for your own gain. Jesus didn't fast for His own interest, but for His Father's interest. We should do the same.

Embezzlement isn't in the Bible either, but it is still stealing

//Just because one does not believe in a LENT, doesn't mean they don't believe in fasting.//

Again, your guilt must be eating you alive!

Who said you don't fast?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/19


ax: Strange that you don't consider life in heaven and the new earth as applying to you. Most Christians aspire to that eventuality. Didn't you know that no animals will die there - hence vegetarianism?

Once again, the Fourth Commandment does indeed show love to God. It is His Seal.


---jerry6593 on 7/21/19




Nicole, lent is not in the bible. Many people fast in private, between them and the Lord ONLY, praying for some specific answer or need, as we see in the NT as well, and a "lent" is never mentioned. People fasted in the OT and no one had to wait until a so called LENT or whatever to do so.

Even in the Gospels, when they fasted, it was not during a "lent". That is something you all made up.

Just because one does not believe in a LENT, doesn't mean they don't believe in fasting. One is not the other. Please know that.
---kathr4453 on 7/21/19


jerry6593:

Vegetarians aren't REQUIRED to eat vegetables or ONLY vegetables. They don't take your Vegan Card if you fast (i.e. not eat vegetables) or take vitamins (eat a non-vegetable).

Don't you understand that before Noah's flood EVERYONE was a vegetarian, and in the new earth EVERYONE will be vegetarian again?

Why are you SO OBSESSED with laws that don't apply to us, but to people FOUR CONVENANTS before? Being retro is ironic for a group calling itself "Adventist".

When Jesus was asked about the most important laws, he said "Love God and your neighbor, which cover 9 of the 10 commandments. Curious he didn't mention the tenth. I guess he didn't consider it as important.
---StrongAxe on 7/20/19


Kathr: you are trying to say you are living them only 40 days a year,//

I never said that. I was correcting your CLAIMED that Lent wasn't in the Bible.

Lent is a time where everyone fasts TOGETHER/ONE. The CC teaches us to fast always

//(Because the reality of the verses above cannot be self induced or self imitating .//

In what world is 'fasting' is interchangeable with 'self-inducing.'

In the Catholic Faith it is the opposite. Think of God not yourself.

//It's something the Lord Himself brings you through BY FAITH, not a 40 day imposed self humility.//

If that is true why is Jesus telling us HOW to fast? Matthew 6:17

And why did Jesus say the Disciples will have to fast? Matthew 9:14
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/20/19


Nicole, I believe those scriptures absolutely, and yes spiritual warfare is real, and as we abide in Christ we overcome by FAITH IN HIM, putting on the whole ARMOUR of God, as we are taught in scripture. So to me, it's a life, also deeply lived in Galatians 2:20-21 Romans 6-8 and Colossians 2-3. I would say because you have never lived in reality the verses above, you are trying to say you are living them only 40 days a year, ( called will worship) and think for some reason it's the same thing. NO ! it's not. Because the reality of the verses above cannot be self induced or self imitating . It's something the Lord Himself brings you through BY FAITH, not a 40 day imposed self humility.
---kathr4453 on 7/20/19


Kathr: YOUR MADE UP LENT,//

???

That doesn't make any sense!

The Catholic Church has celebrated Lent almost 2 thousand years before I was born.

//Did you too wrestle with Satan , and then after are attended by the Angels?//

EVERYDAY!

HELLO? Ephesians 6:11-19 and Hebrews 1:14

Ephesians 6:11-12 For our struggle is NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the POWERS of this dark world and against the SPIRITUAL FORCES OF EVIL IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS.

Hebrews 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Matt 9:15, Jesus said the Disciples will FAST!

Matt 6:16

You don't believe Jesus?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/20/19


ax: "You must have missed by previous message"

That doesn't even make sense. Perhaps your lack of understanding of the English language helps explain your misinterpretation of the word "shall" in Gen 1:29 as permission rather than a command. Don't you understand that before Noah's flood EVERYONE was a vegetarian, and in the new earth EVERYONE will be vegetarian again?

Didn't you notice that I was addressing Samuel and not you in my previous post? As a SDA, he should understand the importance of vegetarianism in these last days. You, not so much.

Your understanding of the new covenant is equally faulty. If you were under the new covenant, you would have God's 10C Law written in your heart.
---jerry6593 on 7/20/19


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Nicole, lent ONLY TO YOU is trying to compare Jesus 40 days in the wilderness TO YOUR MADE UP LENT, thinking you've created a wonderful MOCK comparison. Everything you all do seem to MOCK the Word of God.

Did you too wrestle with Satan , and then after are attended by the Angels? Did Satan offer YOU the whole world and all the kingdoms if you bowed down and worshipped him? OH THE FOOLISHNESS of diminishing what happened in that wilderness. Why not just have a personal day you all nail yourselves to the cross day?

As I said before, we don't see ANYONE in scripture as we read the NT written up to 30-40 -50 years after Jesus died and rose again speak of any lent or saints days.
---kathr4453 on 7/20/19


Kathr: it didn't begin with the early church, as Peter, Paul John James etc etc say nothing about a lent or abstaining from meat.//

1 Cor 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. (St. Paul)

Jesus FASTED for 40 days, so that's why Catholics fast for 40 days.

1 Peter 2: 19-21 ......because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.

Philippians 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

So we can't imitate Jesus?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/20/19


jerry6593:

You must have missed by previous message, that dealt with this exact thing.

Genesis 1:29 PERMITS eating of plants. It does not COMMAND eating of plants, nor FORBID eating of everything else. After the flood, Noah was also PERMITTED to eat clean animals, and after Peter's vision before visiting Cornelius, he was told to eat of all kinds of unclean meats - and to not declare unclean what God has called clean.

What I just can't understand is Christians who live under the new covenant, yet insist on being yoked with the chains of the old one (that Jesus specifically came to break), and not only that, also the restrictions that were there long before Moses and even Noah. Nowhere are WE ever told to continue to do that.
---StrongAxe on 7/19/19


Kathr, allow me to explain the secular holidays on the same day of the Feast days of the Catholic Church.

Easter bunny vs. Jesus' Resurrection.

Santa Claus vs. Christmas the birth of Jesus.

St. Patrick vs. Leprechaun

Cupid vs Real person St. Valentine

Fat Tuesday ISN'T on a Liturgical calendar of the CC.

Secular fat Tuesday came out from Rich people emptying their houses of rich foods and meats and give it out to the poor.

Thus the poor people called that day Fat Tuesday BECAUSE they got to eat as fat people ate.

Lent is about imitating Jesus' 40 days in the desert.

//Sorry it's NOT biblical.//

Let me help you locate those Passages:

Matthew 4:1-2 Mark 1:12, Luke 4:2
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/19/19


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Well what we do know Cluny, it didn't begin with the early church, as Peter, Paul John James etc etc say nothing about a lent or abstaining from meat. Actually the opposite. It contradicts Colossians 2-3 to its very core. WHAT, you don't obey scripture..only man made traditions?
---kathr4453 on 7/19/19


Sam: "I don't believe the Bible says we must be vegetarians. I do believe it is the best of all diets."

Then what do you make of:

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed, to you it shall be for meat.



---jerry6593 on 7/19/19


\\ i bet cluny does NOT know & ignorant how he is obeying the pope.
---mike on 7/18/19
\\

And I bet you can't tell us WHICH pope did so, mike.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/19/19


uis???

Wrong again. It's spelled us. No such word as uis.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/19


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\\No meat on Friday thing the Pope made up, \\

Bet you can't tell uis WHICH pope made it up.

In any case, you are in no position to talk about what's Biblical and was is not, when you know little about it to start with.

Glory to pope, SUN god, ishtar & bugs bunny.
---Cluny on 7/17/19

look who's talking. cluny doesn't even know mark 7v9 when cluny rejects the commandment of God to keep his tradition. i bet cluny does NOT know & ignorant how he is obeying the pope.
---mike on 7/18/19


Cluny:

You wrote: Genesis 1:29.

That verse PERMITS eating of plants. It does not REQUIRE eating of plants, nor does if FORBID eating of other things. Besides, Adam and Eve were under one convenant before the Fall, and another after the Fall, and Noah and his children under yet a different one after the Flood, and Abraham under a different one, and Moses and the Jews under a different one, and Christians under yet another. The rules under each covenant are different than under the previous ones, and one cannot interpret commands given under earlier covenants to be applicable under the current one.
---StrongAxe on 7/19/19


Genesis 1:29 was before sin, still naked in the Garden of Eden. As I said before. No such verse exists after sin entered. And it's not a command. The only command was not to eat the fruit from the tree of good and evil.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/19


\\
There is no verse COMMANDING vegetarianism. \\

I know you keep on saying that, but it's not true.

Once more with feeling, kathr:

Genesis 1:29.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/19


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Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things. Genesis 9:3

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, AND COMMANDING TO ABSTAIN FROM MEATS, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-5
---Steveng on 7/18/19


I don't believe the Bible says we must be vegetarians. I do believe it is the best of all diets.

But I asked my wife and she said no. So I am not a vegetarian. The cook rules.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/18/19


There is no verse COMMANDING vegetarianism. To be a command, the verse would have to say, "I command you to eat fruit and veggies only and NOT MEAT. "

But as I stated before, it's hard to believe Cluny is a grown man, and not a 4th grade MEAN GIRL. But we all knew that, and many still calling you out for your pettiness ...

Who cares about spelling but you...no one but you....just like a Trumpianism attack, having no meaning at all EXCEPT TO YOU. Are your depends soiled again? Need a change?
---kathr4453 on 7/18/19


\\
I believe scripture teaches scripture Cluny.\\

Like when you said there is nothing in the Bible commanding mankind to be vegetarians (which word you also misspelled)?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/19


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(Romans 2:4) Or despisest thou the riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads thee to repentance?

How does the Goodness of God lead us to Repentance?
Simply put,
When God is good to us,....when he blesses our lives,...when he answers our prayers,.....Like little children,....We want to be good for him.

Why does God want us all to come to repentance? To understand this, we must understand what the word actually means?
Repentance is our obedience to God, an obedience that does not come out of duty, but an obedience that comes out of Love.
---David on 7/18/19


Cluny, no need for you're last two posts. I simply said we have different beliefs. You sound angry. I'm not angry because you believe differently that I do. So again, no need for your last two posts.

Who said I believe in alter calls? I've never said I did. So YOU presume a lot!

I believe scripture teaches scripture Cluny. I also believe when scripture is clear about a certain subject, then that is the final say. Colossians 2-3 do not support Lent. If that's Sola Scripture, then so be it. I'm just OBEYING the Word of God. If that makes you ANGRY, then you should not be posting here giving advise. OR were your last two posts another a juvenile MEAN GIRL ATTACK?
---kathr4453 on 7/18/19


kathr, can you give Biblical warrant for altar calls, invitation hymns, and revivals?

Bet you can't!

But remember that Sola Scriptura is YOUR rule, not mine.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/17/19


\\No meat on Friday thing the Pope made up, \\

Bet you can't tell uis WHICH pope made it up.

In any case, you are in no position to talk about what's Biblical and was is not, when you know little about it to start with.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/17/19


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Cluny, it's still a man made tradition, and not Biblical. Just like the No meat on Friday thing the Pope made up, and now changed his mind, where many believe multitudes are in hell because they ate meat on Friday. The reason many of us don't believe in that ( Lent) is AGAIN , our SIN was dealt with when we died with Christ, and were raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE. Our NEW CREATURE does not need a Lent..nor would we ever intentionally SIN on a sin binge. We don't believe in giving up something for 40 days, because we gave up old man of SIN altogether FOREVER. You might be living in OT before the cross mentality , we life AFTER the Cross REALITY.

But hay, as I've stated before, we simply do not have the same beliefs.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/19


kathr, in the Orthodox Church, Great Lent starts with Pure Monday.

No meat is eaten for a week before this.

The
Sunday before Great Lent starts is called Cheesefare Sunday, the last day dairy products can be eaten.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/16/19


Fat Tuesday, is the last day of a season called Carnival is often characterized by drunkenness and shameless debauchery celebrated in Catholic countries as well as Catholic States like LA. The excess of Carnival has much in common with the austerity of Lent, the two seasons are inseparable. The day after Fat Tuesday is Ash Wednesday, the end of Carnival followed immediately by the beginning of Lent. Lent is a time of fasting and penance after the sinful binge, the indulgence before the fast. It is one last binge before having to give something up for 40 days.

No thanks.... I lived in New Orleans and personally witnessed this disgusting time, and I just can't separate lent from Mardi Gras.

Sorry it's NOT biblical.
---kathr4453 on 7/16/19


Nicole, you misrepresented me! Called a LIE, or just purposeful pretending you don't know any better. I said works has TWO 2 meanings, and showed scripture to back up the two meanings, of which David also supported with scripture. Works are also deeds Nicole.

I wonder if you hold as much pride as Donald Trump, who can never admit he is wrong,and then makes up the most bazaar things making no sound sense just to justify and prove he is correct.

You are WRONG on two of these issues Nicole.

I won't argue your nonsense. I showed you that the original Greek word for WORKS was the exact word used in Matt as well as 2 Timothy.....you simply act like you never saw...ignoring and then just go on and on with more nonsense.
---kathr4453 on 7/16/19


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\\Food for Paradise, your traditional for lent is a manmade tradition and has no biblical basis that PROVE anything.\\

Like everything done at the funny little conventicle YOU attend, kathr.

There is a purpose in the Lenten fasting and abstinence: Saying "no" to little things like food make it easter to shout "NO!" to big things like sin.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/16/19


David, Romans 2:5-10 speaks about God rendering to man according to his deeds, not his beliefs.

Kathr, believes 'works' means ONLY one thing. It has 2 meanings.

Your 7 yrs old child can't NOT get a toy from a store without buying it. He doesn't work for a living to pay for the toy.

So you give him $10 to buy the toy. But instead of paying for the toy with the money you gave him, he decides to spend the money on candy and steals the toy.

Either way he didn't work for the toy. But the way he obtains the toy matters. Likewise, we can not work to get into Heaven. But we can not steal our way into Heaven either.

We MUST enter Heaven by the work Jesus performed on the cross freely given to us. His Way not our way.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/16/19


Kath4453, no problem. It's a side issue anyway. Blessings to you.
---JS1234 on 7/15/19


Before SIN, it appears they are Vegitarians, but after they leave the garden, no such verse exists. Also when Noah is shown about the animals to bring on the Ark, the reference is made between clean animals and non clean animals Genesis 7. Genesis 9 Noah is told they can eat from *ALL* the animals and birds, fish etc as God has given them. Nothing here about sepatating clean from non clean as was told to Israel.

There are really no verses that specifically forbid any meat eating after SIN, before the flood.

Again, much like Genesis 4:4 much is left to ones own interpretation of how they choose to read it.

Did Abel tend the sheep ONLY for sacrifice? Yet no scripture clearly details in Genesis HOW Abel knew to do this.
---kathr4453 on 7/16/19


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Food for Paradise, your traditional for lent is a manmade tradition and has no biblical basis that PROVE anything.

There is no scripture with Noah that says *NOW* you can eat meat. God also told Noah that killing another human was forbidden, YET we know it was a sin AND HAPPENED before the flood as well. Just because we only hear about Cain, doesnt mean he was the ONLY one who murdered before the flood. YET you would think it was a whole new IDEA, God telling Noah not to take anothere life.

There are 2000+ years between Adam and Eve and the Flood, and only 9 chapters covering it???? Must be a lot we dont know....yet people make up stuff like Adam and Eve were GIANTS.....where NO SCRIPTURE makes such a statement.
---kat453 on 7/16/19


Sorry JS1234, but that isn't the correct translation. KJV as well as many others agree with other places re "the fat". So Nicole is correct here.

A sacrifice is a sacrifice whether it was a fat one or not. It was the FIRSTLING that was Important.

Unless you can find at least two or three other supporting scriptures supporting that they also looked at the fat ones ...and for some reason fat ones were more worthy that a normal size one....

And since firstling is a TYPE of firstborn, as Jesus is referred to, there Are no reference to Fattening up Jesus, making Him more acceptable.

The FAT is explained in Leviticus 3 AND Nicole showed a great verse as well.
---kath4453 on 7/15/19


\\I see no proof in scripture that everyone was a vegetarian\\

Is Genesis 1:29 not in your Bible, kathr? Don't forget that in Tudor diction, "meat" simply meant "food."

This is why in the Orthodox Church, the strict vegan regime during Lent is called "food of paradise".

Mankind was not given a blessing to eat flesh meat until AFTER the Flood.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/15/19


Nicole, the most accurate translation in Genesis is the one that I posted earlier. Please read it carefully and you will understand about the fat.

... and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones, and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present, - Genesis 4:4 (Young's Literal Translation)
---JS1234 on 7/14/19


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Nicole
I believe Kathryn is partially right about the passage, (Matthew 16:27). It speaks of the rewards for both,... the righteous and unrighteous. As seen below.


(Romans 2:5-10) But because of thy hardness and impenitence of heart, thou treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of Wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life, but unto those who are contentious, and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who doeth evil, upon the Jew first and also upon the Gentile....
---David on 7/15/19


I see no proof in scripture that everyone was a vegetarian , I guess you mean before the flood. That speculation is based on SDA beliefs, as no one else I know believes such a thing.

Also "dead meat" isn't what covered sin, Hebrews 10 .

As today , we are Justified by His Blood and SAVED BY HIS RISEN LIFE.

I also can't imaging the RCC believe they are eating "dead meat" at Mass.

The "dead meat" comment is strange. What's up with that? Sins were not "covered" in the OT by eating "dead meat" or even eating the meat. The BLOOD COVERED.
---kathr4453 on 7/15/19


You are correct Nicole.

Good point.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/15/19


JS1234: There is nothing in Genesis 4 about Abel offering a blood sacrifice. Blood is not mentioned, and neither is fire.//

I am curious, are you saying Abel didn't kill one of his flock?

Genesis 4:4 And Abel also brought an offeringfat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.

How did he procure the fat?

Now you are correct that it doesn't state Abel give God blood from the animal.

But the fire portion I am not sure about. When they did sacrifices they burned it up and the smoke rising to heaven was the way they were sending it to God.

1 Kings 18:30-38

But, I would like to know what is your opinion of their sacrifices?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/14/19


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JS1234 / Nicole, Hebrews and Leviticus, show blood sacrifice , some verses referred to as sacrifice and other verses as offering. We see Job, making an offering or sacrifice FOR THE SINS OF HIS SONS. No details about the fat or burnt this or that. But we know it wasn't a wheat offering. Also the very first sacrifice in scripture is Genesis 3:20-21.

Hebrews and Leviticus are very clear that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness/covering of sin. And EVERYTHING was sprinkled with blood ..Hebrews 9:21-22.

TODAY Christ Blood alone was shed for our sin.

Nicole, also James parallels Abrahams faith with works or evidence of his faith, with the sacrifice of Isaac...which God provided a ram in Isaac's place.
---kathr4453 on 7/14/19


JS 1234, that is why I gave you Leviticus Chapter 3 to read. See the verse below, it does not say sacrifice, nor anything about eating either. So not every verse goes into detail ..or else say because God didn't micromanage over and over every detail , that you can argue the details. Jesus wasn't cut into pieces either, nor was His body burnt upon an alter, yet He was the ULTIMATE complete sacrifice for sin...being OFFERED ONCE AND FOR ALL.



Leviticus 3:2 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of his offering, and kill it at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron's sons the priests shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
---kat453 on 7/14/19


Kat453, yours is the standard interpretation. And it's okay with me if you want to believe that. You will notice, however, that the word sacrifice is not used. Also later in the Bible when sacrifices were made, people got to eat some of it. But at that time everybody was a vegetarian. So it seems odd to me that God would ask for dead meat.
---JS1234 on 7/14/19


Kathr: BY FAITH ABEL offered a blood sacrifice ..showing OBEDIENCE OF FAITH in the promised redeemer, announced in Genesis 3:15//

???

That doesn't make sense.

It only makes sense if you agree with Faith WITHOUT works is dead.

If Abel had the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH in the promised redeemer as you put it, WHY did he offer a blood sacrifice?

Also Abel or the rest of the family DIDN'T know what God was talking about in Gen 3:15.

//Cain rejected what was required of God//

Most like he was selfish and didn't want to give God his best. He was saving it for himself.

Next he killed Abel thinking if God couldn't be displeased with his offerings since God couldn't compare them another's offerings.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/14/19


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Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Genesis 4:4 is in keeping with Leviticus 3:1-16. That the FAT, is perfectly defined as part of the offering of the pieces of the offering, to be burnt...

So "Young's" got it wrong. Scripture teaches scripture. Noah before the flood offered sacrifice, Job, Abraham, etc offered sacrifice for sin before the Law of Moses. God was the first to set the standard, KILLING and COVERING Adam and Eve, pointing to our sins being covered, UNTIL His own sacrifice of Himself for our sin.

Now the RCC believe eating Jesus literally in MASS equates OT eating the fat thereof.
---kat453 on 7/14/19


There is nothing in Genesis 4 about Abel offering a blood sacrifice. Blood is not mentioned, and neither is fire.
---JS1234 on 7/13/19


So there ya go Nicole. God said of Cain's sacrifice.....WORKS WERE EVIL. Again we have 3 different places on scripture testifying about Cain's EVIL WORKS. This is why it is important having scripture teach scripture and not just one verse anyone can self interpret to say what they want it to.

Nicole, I have no clue what your post is about....sounds off the chain.
---kathr4453 on 7/13/19


Hebrews 11:

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

God is STILL SPEAKING ABOUT ABELS SACRIFICE. and He's still speaking about Cains too.

Cain did Not even after a second chance offer a more acceptable one did he? This was no guessing game. Without the shedding of blood there is no.forgiveness of sin. WHAT? Did you all think animal sacrifice began with Moses and the Law? WRONG
---kathr4453 on 7/13/19


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1 John 3:11-12

11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.


The Gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Romans 16:25-27....FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH.

BY FAITH ABEL offered a blood sacrifice ..showing OBEDIENCE OF FAITH in the promised redeemer, announced in Genesis 3:15. Cain rejected what was required of God...even after a second chance, just as many today reject the Gospel, and believe they can earn salvation by good works...establishing their own righteousness...
---kath4453 on 7/13/19


Where in the Bible states Cain believed he gave God his best? It doesn't. In fact, God was trying to encourage him to do better.

Gen 4:7 If you DO what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door, it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.

Making stuff up that ISN'T in the Bible.

Are you all suggesting God didn't know state of Cain's heart?

What part of Matthew 7:21 you all can't understand?

V21...will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the WILL of my Father who is in heaven.

God demands ACTIONS, not just Words.

In other words Jesus is saying he talks the talk but he doesn't walk the walk in Matthew 7:21
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/12/19


It does not seem clear in Genesis 4 that Cain's brother Abel killed his offering or burnt it.

...and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones, and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present... - Genesis 4:4 (Young's Literal Translation)
---JS1234 on 7/12/19


Matthew 7:21-23. Is no guarantee for a GOOD reward.
---kathr4453


No, no guarantee,...but as everyone should be able to see,..Jesus did put an emphasis on obedience to God and its relationship to Heaven in this teachings. Was a bit shocked...but not surprised to see you desecrate the Word of Jesus Christ.

(Matthew 7:21)
Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father who is in Heaven.


Kathryn, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in its entirety, teaches, obedience to God as the way unto salvation. Not a good idea to twist the Lords words to make them say what your itching ears may want to hear. ( 2 Timothy 4:3-4)
---David on 7/13/19


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]]Cain's was the opposite , trying to win God's favor by self effort. ]]

Where did you get that idea, kathr?

In the Torah, there are instructions about offering produce sacrifices, and even beer offerings.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/13/19


Strongaxe, I agree. Cain also thought he was doing a great thing by offering a bloodless sacrifice, and God rejected his offering. Cain was so jealous of Abel because God accepted his, that he ended up murdering his brother, the EXACT SAME ENVY the Pharisees had in their heart when they murdered Jesus. Abel's sacrifice was saying he acknowledged he was a sinner, Cain's was the opposite , trying to win God's favor by self effort. Which is Matthew 16....warning " be careful of the LEAVEN OF THE PHSRISEES" which is the beginning of Romans 10, and where and WHY they failed.
---kathr4453 on 7/12/19


kathr4453:

Matthew 7 is a good example of people doing what they think are good works - giving Jesus gifts he never asked for, and never wanted. It's like when a loving pet brings a live snake in from outside, and puts it on your pillow for you to appreciate. They think they're doing a good thing, but you think otherwise.

I can imagine many from previous centuries (and even some today) at the Final Judgment saying "Lord, we tortured and killed many heretics in your name!" or "We killed many infidels who resisted our attempts to convert to them to the Gospel!", and you can just imagine how Jesus would react to those.
---StrongAxe on 7/12/19


STRONGS G591 - apodidomi ....this is the ORIGINAL WORD The EXACT SAME WORD, the ORIGINAL WORD, used for "REWARD" and is the same in Matthew 16 and 2 Timothy 4:14.

SO using a different translation isn't the final say...but the ORIGINAL is the final say. So if 2 Timothy 4:14 REWARD means to repay, so does Matthew 16.

That's why I say it's important to KNOW even the basics on how to read the Bible. Our English just isn't all that compared to the original. Same as the word "wait" or "love" ....all Greek or Hebrew having many meanings, with many DIFFERENT WORDS where we USE ONE WORD , and many think that one word means only one thing WRONG.
---kathr4453 on 7/12/19


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If a theology states that God knows in advance who is going to lose his soul but He doesn't do anything about it, there is something terribly wrong with that theology.
---JS1234 on 7/12/19


True katyr. The goats get the reward they deserve in Mathew 25.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/12/19


Barb, great point. I agree

Nicole, get a STRONGS CONCORDANCE, or you can also just go to an online Bible, and type in the word WORKS and REWARD. Go all the way back to Genesis. I believe you will find both words, works and rewards God uses as both good and bad. I also believe reading the context of Matthew 16 it is in keeping with that as well. I also believe scripture teaches scripture, and we have multitudes of examples ( I only posted 2 out of MANY) where it doesn't mean rainbows and moonbeams. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Even the verse " haven't we done many wonderful WORKS in your name" and Jesus will say " I NEVER KNEW YOU" Matthew 7:21-23. Is no guarantee for a GOOD reward.
---kathr4453 on 7/11/19


Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He shall reward every man according to his works." Matthew 16:24-27.

It is important to read the previous verses to see the truth that Jesus is teaching here. The upside is salvation and eternal life. The downside is the loss of your soul and eternal death.
---barb on 7/11/19


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Kathr: ..God often referred to one's "works" as EVIL WORKS, and being rewarded for their evil, called WORKS//

Cite them.

The word 'Works' are MOSTLY used for good, and LACK of works for evil.

Read Matt 6 esp. V4. Those are GOOD works. Esp. V2. How can giving to the needy be EVIL?. Even V6 uses RIGHTEOUSNESS as works.

//Luke 6:23//

REALLY? Did you not read V24-26? The word 'WOE' not 'reward'

//John 7:7//

V3 in ch 7 uses the same word 'works' for Jesus.

Works are actions. You are also punished for DOING BAD THINGS.

//2 Timothy 4:14...the Lord reward him according to his works//

Get a better translation. Only KJV uses that word. All others do not. Most say 'repay'.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/11/19


Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God, for it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. - Romans 14:10-12
---JS1234 on 7/11/19


Nicole, I agree... No one gets a pass...
---JS1234 on 7/11/19


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