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Predestined For Hell

Are people who do not become Christians predestined to hell, or do they just go there by default?

It seems obvious from Scripture that Christians are predestined to be so. But it is not clear about those who do not become Christians.

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 ---JS1234 on 7/15/19
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Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This verse SHOULD answer questions about free will and universalism. Those who have heard the truth and reject it, and use their FREE WILL TO SIN, after hearing the truth , there not only is no more sacrifice for sin for them, but no second chances either. It's appointed for man to die ONCE and then the judgement...the second death meaning ...well it doesn't mean a second change for LIFE EVERLASTING. Those who teach such things ARE enemies of the cross.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/19


It's been interesting chatting with you guys. I may be back one of these days. Have a good rest of the year. Blessings to all of you!
---JS1234 on 8/1/19


JS1234, I have a friend who makes the same statements.....once said when her dishes in the Dishwasher didn't get clean...." IF GOD HAD WANTED THEM TO GET CLEAN, THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN CLEAN" . She was serious too.

I personally don't think God is also in control of our dishwashers ....

And scripture speaks of WILLFUL IGNORANCE, and WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE.

Address these verses. Running away from a discussion here, means maybe you are to sensitive to be challenged , not only here but everywhere. It's easy to blame others for running away.
---kathr4453 on 8/1/19


I have often sought an answer to this question myself. In the book of Revelation the books are opened at the great white judgment throne and whose name is not found therein goes swimming in the lake of fire. However, this judgment is not for the Christian but for others. In that case, there must be some names in that Revelation book that permits some to be saved.
---riolion on 8/1/19


JS1234, also I don't know who is and isn't saved, and never have said I did. So when you post to me, you always throw in your little twists to make yourself look the victim, and then blame God for all your shortcomings, and blame others for this or that.

You have a peculiar obsession with predestination and free will, but seem to refuse to search the scriptures to see what God says on the subject , but rather rely on mans personal beliefs. Then say, well it's Gods fault that I don't read the Bible to search for the answer.

Must be nice to dump all on God ...but one day, He will dump all that back on you.
---kat453 on 8/1/19




Kathr, if I don't have a clue, then it's God's will that I don't have a clue. He is running the show. I'm glad you are saved and I'm glad you know who isn't saved. It's probably time for me to move on and do something else besides post here. Peace and blessings to you.
---JS1234 on 8/1/19


JS1234, it's very sad you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Your last ststement Sounds like some Confucius says .....

But God never asked us to prove anything by faith, He only asked us to BELIEVE HIM which is faith. Not all men have faith, and unfortunately for those...there is no excuse, because God has given all men a measure of faith..whether you believe it or not.
---kathr4453 on 8/1/19


Kathr, I can't prove anything that rests on faith. If we could prove things that rest on faith, we would no longer need faith.
---JS1234 on 7/31/19


\\His light lighteth every man that cometh into the world." That's future tense, \\

No, michael e, that's PRESENT tense.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/19


JS 1234, so by your own question above you can't PROVE universalism, as you say ITS NOT CLEAR about those who do not become Christians .

No one is predestined for heaven or hell.

I think because you don't understand predestination, you can't understand the very basics about salvation. And if that's the case, you shouldn't take the opposite view of a false doctrine just to end up with another false doctrine just to combat the first. AND universalism is not the opposite of Calvinism to begin with. Nice try, but it doesn't work that way.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/19




John 1:7" The Word says that when Christ came into the world, "His light lighteth every man that cometh into the world." That's future tense, They somehow received the Light.
Titus 2:11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath (past tense) appeared to all men." (Not a few)
Rom 1:18,19a "For the wrath of God..." (we're not under the wrath of God) is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them..."
`Manifest' is a multi-type term. There isn't just one little segment of knowledge, they have a whole bunch, A complete unveiling of knowledge.
---michael_e on 7/23/19


So the answer is NO, no one was predestined to be saved or lost. The CHURCH was predestined, a mystery kept secret, but now revealed. Salvation was never a mystery kept secret. Jesus death and resurrection was never a mystery kept secret. Hell was never a mystery kept secret, THE CHURCH was/ is that Mystery kept secret, now revealed. The CHURCH, a whole NEW CREATURE, is the BOC, HIS BODY, baptized into His death, and raised up together with Him, joint heirs with Christ...never ever promised to earthly Israel.

WE HAVE A HIGH CALLING. Right here, right now, being conformed to His image right now, through the fellowship of His sufferings.
---kathr4453 on 7/22/19


Here are two supporting scriptures for Romans 8:29

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence. Colossians 1:24-27 show the CHURCH as that MYSTERY kept secret. Salvation itself was never a secret.

Hebrews 12:23

1)To the general assembly ...aka the Angels

2)and church of the firstborn, (the BOC) **see Colossians 1:18 **which are written in heaven,

3) and to God the Judge of all,

4) and to the spirits of just men made perfect, aka OT SAVED

AND means in addition to As we see from The verses above and not just another name for.
---kathr4453 on 7/22/19


Romans 8:29 -......
---RichardC on 7/20/19

Now to truly understand this verse, one needs to understand what THE FIRSTBORN means. Jesus was not the FIRST to be Born Again. It means PREEMINENCE ...surpassing all other, having a place of superiority . which is what the CALLING OUT OF THE CHURCH, as we IN CHRIST, His Church, not earthly Israel will have a place surpassing all other ..and will share in His Glory, as joint heirs with Christ. it has nothing to do with salvation vs the lost, but that the CHURCH has a HIGHER CALLING in this dispensation of the Gospel.
Many will be saved from Genesis to Rev, but will not have this HIGHER CALLING. This my friends IS THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE "MYSTERY" .
---kathr4453 on 7/22/19


Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none that seeketh after God

Romans 3:11 - There is none that understandeth , there is none seeketh after God.

Romans 3:12 - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable there is none that doeth good, no not one.

( I think the Question should be, why save anybody ? )
---RichardC on 7/21/19


JS1234: Why would God create people just to send them to hell?//

He doesn't.

Only men are heartless and love to torture each other.

God loves us and His love for us is why He created us.

Every person in hell choose to go to hell. They chose not to follow God on earth and refused His Mercy at His death.

Anyone who truly seeks His Mercy will obtain His Mercy. Don't forget the good Thief
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/21/19


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Romans 8:27 - And he that searches the hearts Knoweth what is the mind of the spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:28 - And he know that all things work together for the good to them that love God. To them that are called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, he did predestinate to be conform to the image of his Son , that might be the firstborn among many brethren.
---RichardC on 7/20/19


\\God predestined us, That is His Body, aka "THE CHURCH", to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ . \\

This is what the Orthodox Church calls THEOSIS.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/20/19


God predestined us, That is His Body, aka "THE CHURCH", to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ . This is our sanctification not our initial salvation or justification. Please read the verses carefully. Ephesians more fully explain He will present to Himself a Church without spot or wrinkle Ephesians 5:27. But to fully understand you need to understand the CHURCH is not earthly Israel, but a whole NEW CREATURE. All of Ephesians explains, but you have to be heavenly minded to understand.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/19


Christianity is Just a religion But what determines our final destination is our Relationship with Jesus Christ.It doesn't matter how long we have walked with Christ but How deep we are in Christ.John 10:27 How deep are you in Christ? Do you know His Voice?Do you obey Him?
---Tez6548 on 7/18/19


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Why would God create people just to send them to hell?
---JS1234 on 7/18/19


There are two resurrections: the first at the soon to return of Jesus where the dead in Christ shall rise first and the living shall be caught up with the dead. The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ where all the other dead from all of history shall rise and be judged from the Book of Life according to their works some to everlasting life, some to everlasting death. Blessed are the ones who rise in the first resurrection.

There are people who do God's will not knowing it's God's will.
---Steveng on 7/18/19


Romans 2 speaks of those who follow GOD unaware. How they will be saved.

Those who believe in predestination. Do teach that the majority are predestined to go to hell.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/18/19


StevenG, I'm quite sure that the vast majority of mankind has died without ever having the "opportunity."
---JS1234 on 7/18/19


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The term "robot" was a metaphor.

God is looking for people having true love from their hearts to populate his coming kingdom. He is looking for people who wants to follow him. To repent on their decision.

JS1234 wrote: "If God is God, he is smart enough to get everybody saved if he wants to..."

All throughout history, God has given man many opportunities to bring man to him, but man has rejected God.
---Steveng on 7/17/19


It all goes back to Genesis 1-3. Especially the history of Cain and Abel. Abel presented to God a more acceptable offering ...BLOOD,where God declared Abel RIGHTEOUS, Hebrews 11, giving Cain a second chance to do what God required, yet Cain out of his own FREE CHOICE chose not to obey, choosing hell for himself. GOD calling Cain's offering EVIL.

No wonder JS1234 you didn't understand OR CHOSE to not believe the reason of God rejecting Cain's offering...or refusing to engage in any discussion about Leviticus 3 or Hebrews. SEE YOU MADE A CHOICE TOO.

It now all makes sense.
---kathr4453 on 7/18/19


StevenG, I don't know where you got the idea of robots from. If God is God, he is smart enough to get everybody saved if he wants to, despite their having free will.

But then again, maybe he isn't so smart. You tell me.
---JS1234 on 7/17/19


JS1234 wrote: "God always get what he wants?"

Sure, if God created robots. Humans are not robots. As I said God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. 2 Peter 3:9

God is choosing people who do God's will, whether they believe in Jesus or not, to help populated God's new kingdom. They must choose from the heart whether to repent or not. It's up to the individual's choosing. God gave mankind many opportunities in history to repent. God has suffered long enough and by the way the world is heading it won't be too much longer when God will intervene by bringing his son back.
---Steveng on 7/17/19


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StevenG, I would think that if God wanted everybody to be saved, everybody would be saved. After all, doesn't God always get what he wants? Or can human free will trump God's will?
---JS1234 on 7/16/19


No one is pre-destined to go to hell. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. Man has free will and decides himself if he goes to heaven or hell. Many, including those who don't know Christ or God, will have eternal life who will be judged from the book of life - according to their works.

The bible tells of two resurrections: one for the christians and one for all others.
---Steveng on 7/16/19


No where in scripture does it say that God predestines an individual to Hell.
Multiple scriptures state that God predestines individuals for heaven.
Those who go to hell deserve hell.
We would all go to hell if we were not predestined to salvation and heaven by God.
---trey on 7/16/19


Nicole, I appreciate your input. I will be interested to see what others say.
---JS1234 on 7/16/19


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JS1234, Please cite the obvious. Jesus warns Judas multiple times and tells him that woe to the man who betrays the Son of Man. Matt 26:24.

Judas even ask Jesus if he was the man. But it doesn't mean Judas couldn't stop himself.

Judas still had a chance after he betrayed Jesus, but refused Jesus' Mercy. He lost hope.

But maybe you are speaking about another Passage?

//But it is not clear about those who do not become Christians.//

I know God is Mercy and wouldn't condemn anyone for lack of knowledge. There are many Muslim women in Countries where they can't even step out of their homes. Plus, some Countries where preaching of the Gospel is not allowed.

I believe they fit in this category Luke 12:48
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/16/19


Just wondering about this.
---JS1234 on 7/15/19


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