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Pope Of The Sabbath

From time to time, some few people on here have said that the Pope is the one who changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. But they NEVER say which Pope did so, or when. And, for that matter, how or why. Can someone enlighten us about this?

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 ---Cluny on 7/17/19
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JS1234 , I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny or just annoying. No one is deciding anything FOR YOU. And since this was not your blog question, no one cares whether YOU are annoyed or not. I wasn't talking to you or about you, but OTHERS here who have complained. Got it now???
---kathr4453 on 7/31/19


Kathr, please don't decide for me when I should be annoyed. I'm really okay deciding that for myself. Thanks.
---JS1234 on 7/31/19


JS1234, if you post a question, and then someone took over and completely changed the subject , leaving your question in the dust, you would be annoyed. You're not, because you didn't post the question above. It happens a lot, mostly by Nicole, who chooses to bust into any thread and take over her issues. What she needs to do is start a "FINISH IT HERE" THREAD LIKE OTHERS DO, since each thread is limited.
---kathr4453 on 7/31/19


I'm not sure why, but I'm not annoyed.
---JS1234 on 7/30/19


And just for the record, Nicole changed the subject here to LENT. Nicole, when a thread is closed, please don't take over another with your personal issues you feel you have the need to keep hammering another with. It's selfish, and annoying.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/19




Cluny:

I have repeatedly asked several people here to show exactly which scriptures command WORSHIP on the Sabbath, or that FORBID worship on any other day, but none have ever answered. Since your question about Constantine is a similar question, just about a later dispensation, I doubt any of them will answer that one either.
---StrongAxe on 7/30/19


Why have not people commented on what's NOT in Constantine's 321 edict?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/30/19


Cluny: Nicole, the fasting rules of the Eastern Catholic churches, especially of the Byzantine tradition are much stricter.//

Yes. I am only speaking about the Latin Rite which is the largest of the Catholic Church.

I speak on what I know and practice.

I am telling Kathr, not to comment or criticize other's Faith she knows little about their practices. Matthew 7:1

//Note I did NOT say Orthodox here.//

Now, that's a whole different matter. All I know about their Lenten observance seems to me are your severe reverence into Jesus's deep sorrowful Passion.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/29/19


Nicole, I find the fellowship of His sufferings and the power of His resurrection, being made conformable to His death so that I may attain to the resurrection of Life, and Philippians 3 ..and ALWAYS carrying about in my body the dying of Christ SO THAT the Life of Christ is manifest IN ME, far more rewarding. Mine is not a tradition as we see in scripture it is well stated as THIS is our obedience of faith 24/7/365.Mine is done through the Holy Spirit, yours is done by self effort, or some LAW you've enforced. It contradicts Galatians 2:20-21 and Galatians 3-5. So I do have my convictions as to WHY i do not follow a 40 day LENT.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/19


\\Kathr, the CC only have 2 DAYS of the year when we fast TOGETHER.\\

Nicole, the fasting rules of the Eastern Catholic churches, especially of the Byzantine tradition are much stricter.

Note I did NOT say Orthodox here.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/29/19




Kathr, the CC only have 2 DAYS of the year when we fast TOGETHER.

Fasting is defined as 2 regular meals and one meal that doesn't equal a regular meal. No meat

Only healthy 21-59 yrs of age are bounded to fast.

14-20 yrs old are only bound from meat

Meatless Fridays during Lent (Ash Wednesday) in America (All Fridays in most Countries).

Only 2 days of the year are fasting days.

Giving up chocolate during lent is called a mortification.

We are called to do some type of mortification during lent.

Some give up chocolate, relations if spouse agrees, coffee, smoking, arguing, watching TV, internet, smart phone, yelling during traffic, parking as far as possible from the store's entrance etc.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/29/19


When doctrine becomes more important than how we treat each other, we become Pharisees.
---JS1234 on 7/29/19


mike, what does Ishtar have to do with anything?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/29/19


\\ On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits, because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting, lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321]\\

What is conspicuous by its absence?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/28/19


mike:

You wrote: this statement shows that cluny rejects the commandment of God so he can keep & obey MAN made traditions.

Exactly WHICH commandment of God are you talking about? Please show ANYWHERE God commands us to WORSHIP on the Sabbath, and/or FORBIDS us to worship on any other day. I think I have asked you this several times, but I don't recall you ever providing an answer.
---StrongAxe on 7/28/19


\\justin martyr & the church forgers are NOT found in the bible. \\

Neither are you or EGW.

Just whom do you consider "church forgers"?

How do you know the Edict of Constantine is not a forgery?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/28/19


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\\
Sunday was first officially enforced by the edict of Constantine in 321 AD. \\

And you think that means Christians weren't worshipping on Sunday before that?

According to Justin Martyr, Christians were worshipping on Sunday in the early 100's.

Glory Ishtar, justin martyr, pope.
---Cluny on 7/19/19

this statement shows that cluny rejects the commandment of God so he can keep & obey MAN made traditions. justin martyr & the church forgers are NOT found in the bible. As I said before the serpent in the garden said you will be like God defining what is good & evil & lucifer rebelled & rejected the commandments of God the MOST HIGH creator of heaven & earth.
---mike on 7/28/19


A lot of folks fast for all sorts of reasons. Never said i have a problem with fasting.

Like I have been saying, LENT is man made tradition. There are No verses in scripture stating one MUST OBEY LENT. The word LENT is never used, OR did the early church practice a LENT.


I just can't understand why Nicole is offended by that fact.

---kathr4453 on 7/28/19


\\I will address your error in thinking of Catholic's fasting.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/28/19\\

Don't forget her errors in how she thinks of the fasting of the Orthodox Church.

(In fairness, I should point out that I was directed NOT to fast or abstain by my confessor. My asceticism is to keep my blood sugar under control. But this proves our principle that our fasting should not be self-willed, but obedient.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/28/19


Kathr, I don't know why your so obsessed with my following your traditions.//

Please focus. I reminded you that you are NOT BOUND to our traditions.

***BTW, you are not Catholic, so you are not bound to fast on those days
So, stop arguing about something that doesn't pertain to you.--Nicole_Lacey on 7/24/19

Then you SAID:

***one mans tradition should never be rammed down the throat of another.---kathr4453 on 7/25/19

So, I said AGAIN to you:

***..STOP worrying with Catholics fasting ways and days?---Nicole_Lacey on 7/26/19

So yes, you are obsessed with the Catholic Church method of fasting.

I will address your error in thinking of Catholic's fasting.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/28/19


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Nicole, it probably should be mentioned that verse 32 is in the SINGULAR (something that doesn't come across in modern translations) and therefore was addressed to St. Peter directly and alone.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/27/19


Nicole, I don't know why your so obsessed with my following your traditions. I'm not obsessed with you following what ever you think mine is.

Pick up YOUR CROSS, OR PICK UP HIS CROSS. Which one ? You have two sentences contradicting one another.

When I died with Christ..ALA being Crucified with Christ, our whole life 24/7/364 is Denial of self so we can walk in the Spirit. I DIE DAILY, not just 40 days out of 365.

So I don't know what you think you have over anyone else. Mine is a life....yours is a tradition you only apply 40 days out of 365.
---kathr4453 on 7/27/19


Kather: JESUS being tempted in the wilderness by the devil. The Lord never asked us to do that. What He asks IS HARDER.

That your tradition of thought not isn't in Bible.


Luke 22:31-32 Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.

How mant times did Jess said to follow Him and PICK UP HIS CROSS?

Matt 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Soooooo, fasting isn't one way of denying oneself????

Doing what Jesus did is wrong?
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/27/19


\\ Don't use my faith as a tradition. Don't be so ignorant as to think my faith in Christ is a tradition. \\

You do it all the time to Roman Catholics and Orthodox, kathr.

Do you use hymnals, even if the songs are projected on the wall or screen?

That's a tradition.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/27/19


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Kathr, the 'tradition' that you CAN'T have any traditions!

Don't think that 'Tradition' only exist in the 'doing/actions'.

Traditions are in the thoughts, actions and beliefs.

You didn't come up with the 'Bible only' line. You are following a Man-made talking point of Sola scriptura that isn't in the Bible.

Going to Church on Sundays or for 'good Protestants' Wednesday nights also.

Who started the 'Wednesday night service' rule?

As a child when I lived in the Bible belt our Teachers didn't give us any homework on Wednesdays.

Now that was rammed down Catholics, Jewish and Muslims throat. We didn't go to Church on Wednesday nights. That wasn't our Tradition. Only Protestant's traditions. .
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/27/19


Nicole, please list what you call MY TRADITIONS. And don't PERSUME because you think I'm this or that. I'm asking you out of my very own words where I have stated a tradition I follow, and then quote my words where I have forced this on another. Don't use my faith as a tradition. Don't be so ignorant as to think my faith in Christ is a tradition.
---kathr4453 on 7/27/19


\\The RCC states they changed the day. Because they had the right to rewrite the Ten Commandments and change the day of worship. \\

Can you point us to an official RCC document that says this?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/19


It was not a single pope who did that. The RCC states they changed the day. Because they had the right to rewrite the Ten Commandments and change the day of worship.

But they never quote a single Pope.

In the book Sabbath to Sunday by Samuele Bacchiochi he shows how the day was changed over a period of time.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/26/19


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Kathr, THAT'S RICH! You are RAMMING DOWN your traditions on other people!

You tradition of NOT FOLLOWING traditions unless it's your tradition.

Why do you fast at all? That a tradition?

If a group of people wishes to fast together it's a sin to you? Petty.

Your Church forbids wine which ISN'T in the Bible. In fact the Bible ALLOWS WINE.
So, in other words not drinking wine is MAN MADE TRADITION.

Now, I don't care if you NEVER drink a drop of wine just because your Pastor told you not to drink wine.

Can you PLEASE do the same and STOP worrying with Catholics fasting ways and days?

//Or giving up chocolate,//

Don't assume chocolate is a problem to everyone because it is for you. Phil 3:19
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/26/19


\\
Cluny your post sounded just like Nicole. \\

What are you talking about, kathr, and how does it sound like Nicole?

Is this verse in your Bible?

1 Corinthians 9:27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/26/19


That's fine JS1234, and one man's tradition should never be rammed down the throat of another.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/19

Agree! :)
---JS1234 on 7/25/19


Cluny your post sounded just like Nicole. I was shocked to see your name at the end. Of coarse Jesus is God......and that never entered the discussion here. There is God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. You do believe in the Trinity don't you? Also I don't know anyone getting their PHD going back to kindergarten ..ever.

Listen, you obviously don't get it. It's your tradition, not mine. Move on.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/19


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\\Somehow you think God is looking down and saying...OH ARENT THEY SO CUTE IMITATING JESUS\\

kathr, Jesus IS God!

Or do you not believe that?

In any case. St. Paul said, "Be imitators of me as I IMITATE Christ."

\\ What He asks IS HARDER. \\

If you can't or won't do the easier, how do you ever expect to do the harder?

In any case, earlier you said that Jesus needed "no gymnastic training of his will."

What do you think the 40 days fasting was?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/25/19


That's fine JS1234, and one mans tradition should never be rammed down the throat of another.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/19


I found this quote from St. Isaac the Syrian, who lived in what is today Iran, and hence was never under the pope.

""The Lord's Day is a mystery of the knowledge of the truth that is not received by flesh and blood, and it transcends speculations. In this age there is no eighth day, nor is there a true Sabbath. For he who said that `God rested on the seventh day,' signified the rest [of our nature] from the course of this life, since the grave is also of a bodily nature and belongs to this world. Six days are accomplished in the husbandry of life by means of keeping the commandments, the seventh is spent entirely in the grave, and the eighth is the departure from it."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/25/19


Everyone has traditions. If you have a favorite tuna casserole recipe, that is a man-made traditions. Traditions, by themselves, are not a bad thing. They are usually a GOOD thing, because life would be very difficult for everyone, if every generation throughout history had to re-invent everything every time.

Traditions become toxic when they are put on a pedestal above the commandments of God. When people tell other people "You MUST do this" or "You MUST not do that". E.g. when a religious denomination imposes burdens on its followers that God never intended.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing exactly this, and also for putting their own traditions above the Word of God (e.g. their ruling on korban).
---StrongAxe on 7/25/19


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I cannot think of any Christian group, whether Catholic or Orthodox or Protestant or Evangelical or anything else, that does not have a bunch of man-made traditions attached to it. And that does not bother me at all.
---JS1234 on 7/24/19


That was my whole point Nicole, LENT is. CATHOLIC MAN MADE TRADITION and the NT or old never speak of fasting 40 days just because Jesus did. Or giving up chocolate, because Jesus did, or applying a self imposed denial. The Bible teaches that if we THROUGH THE SPIRIT MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE FLESH..Romans 8:11 ..,is again something GOD DOES ...not something we do. And that again is a LIFE LONG WALK WITH THE LORD, not some 40 thing at the same time every year....CALLED RELIGION. Even Hindu fast, so that again is not something only Christians do. Somehow you think God is looking down and saying...OH ARENT THEY SO CUTE IMITATING JESUS being tempted in the wilderness by the devil. The Lord never asked us to do that. What He asks IS HARDER.
---kathr4453 on 7/24/19


\\Yes Cluny, I meant MUTE. \\

kathr, you are obviously confusing me with someone else.

In fairness to you, I will admit that it's easy to lose track of who said what on these blogs.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/24/19


Kathr: for the very last time. Lent is a man-made tradition. I do not need lent to fast, public, private or in a group.//

Please read your Bible a d DO NOT skip Jesus's 40 day fasting. It occurs after John baptists Him.

Just like taxes, you can PAY MORE.

So you can fast as much as you wish.

BTW, you are not Catholic, so you are not bound to fast on those days

So, stop arguing about something that doesn't pertain to you.
---Nicole_Lacey on 7/24/19


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Yes Cluny, I meant MUTE. One can also use MOOT too, both having their own nuance to the subject. So, Ha ha That was just for your entertainment, and to give you something to post about today, as you LOVE correcting others in unimportant matters you make mountains out of only in your own mind.
---kathr4453 on 7/24/19


StrongAxe, I'm sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you said. You are absolutely right about that. A learning experience for me. Thank you.
---JS1234 on 7/24/19


JS1234:

Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are treated as Sabbaths. They can occur on Saturday - they just overlap the existing Sabbath. They can also occur on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday - they add an additional Sabbath in the middle of the week. They just cannot occur on Friday or Sunday, because that would mean two Sabbaths in a row, which is considered too burdensome. To make sure that never happens, the lengths of some of the months in the Jewish calendar are adjusted by a day, to push the holidays either one day further away from the Sabbath, or onto the same day as the Sabbath.
---StrongAxe on 7/24/19


JS1234, I believe this is the point Strongaxe was making....that the calendar created by GOD for the Jewish people under the OT LAW, is not the calendar used today or even back when all that originally got all messed up during the Babylonian Captivity, BC , not Pope Constantine AD, who forced Sunday as the day if worship, turning Christianity into a violent religion under his rules. Of coarse for the reason of persecuting the Jews.

But back to the different calendars...the SDA do not use the original GOD GIVEN CALENDAR given to the Jews we see in Leviticus, Numbers and Deut. to begin with, so their argument is MUTE.
---kathr4453 on 7/24/19


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StrongAxe, just for general information, Yom Kippur did fall on the Saturday Sabbath in 2017. It does sometimes.
---JS1234 on 7/23/19


kathr4453:

The moon does not have a multiple-of-seven day cycle. The first day of each month can be any day of the week, and it changes from month to month. If a feast starts on the 15th, the 1st and 8th days of that festival will be the 15th and 22nd - which could be literally any day of the week.

This is why Judaism had some esoteric rules about month lengths to ensure that neither Rosh Hashanah nor Yom Kippur occur on Friday or Sunday, to prevent two sabbaths from happening in a row , i.e. a normal Sabbath and a holiday Sabbath, requiring people to not be able ot cook for two days in a row.

The months were arranged so these special festival sabbaths could NOT occur on Sunday (nor Friday, for that matter).
---StrongAxe on 7/23/19


\\But this we know, Jesus was still in the grave on the sabbath day. \\

Our Holy Week hymns point out that the prophetic significance of the Sabbath was fulfilled by the Savior's rest in the tomb.

Since it was fulfilled, it has passed away.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/23/19


Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

WOW keeping a FEAST for 7 days certainly broke the "rest" rule. And WOW LOOK, "GOD" CHANGED THE SABBATH DAY HERE TO SUNDAY. ( if thats what they called it...SUN-day....that horrible day where pagans worship the sun- DAY. WOW, so,the pagans destroyed one of the days GOD MADE, and now we have to throw that day away day?

I'll bet most of you have never read the Bible have you?
---kathr4453 on 7/23/19


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There is no such thing as CHANGING the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Saturday or the 7th day will ALWAYS BE THE SABBATH DAY. Sunday is the FIRST DAY, and we see in the OT was also called the 8th day, also a Holy Day, which may also have pointed to the day Jesus rose from the dead. 8 means NEW BEGINNINGS.

SUNDAY WILL NEVER BE THE SABBATH DAY.

But this we know, Jesus was still in the grave on the sabbath day. Why would anyone TODAY want to worship on a day Jesus was still in the Grave. We CELEBRATE the 8th day, or the 1st day after the 7 with Jesus VICTORY OVER DEATH which is the 8th day, OR the first day of the week, aka The Lords Day. THIS IS THE DAY THE LORD HAS MADE, we will REJOICE AND BE GLAD IN IT.
---kathr4453 on 7/22/19


Jerry, God created a SEVEN day rest, and not a SEVENTY day rest.

I was correcting your use of words. Which would you rather have, seven gold coins, or seventy bright shiny pennies.

IT IS ALWAYS NICE IF YOU WOULD PROOF YOUR OWN TEXT, OR AT LEAST READ MY WHOLE POSTING!
---Monk_Brendan on 7/22/19


Monk: "Jerry, First of all, since when is Jesus the creator of a seventy day Sabbath?"

Maybe this will help:

Col 1:14-16 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, ... all things were created by him, and for him:

Heb 1:2 ... by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds,

Jesus IS the Creator!

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
---jerry6593 on 7/21/19


Justin Martyr was a Christian teacher, just as you are pretending to be, by lecturing Cluny (and the rest of us) on proper Christian behavior. If it's wrong to listen to Justin Martyr because he's not God, wouldn't it therefore be just as wrong to listen to YOU because YOU'RE not God either?

You shouldn't dish out medicine to others and chortle in glee that it tastes bitter, if you're not willing to drink it yourself. You know, that whole "Do unto others as you would have them do unto thee" thing. Maybe you've heard of it.
---StrongAxe on 7/20/19


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\\see cluny is NOT obeying christ & God's commandments but man this time he's obeying justin martyr. how does your medicine taste now cluny?\\

Justin Martyr was simply saying what was happening in the early 100's.

If you're so dense you think I said that Justin Martyr changed the day to Sunday, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

You've already made it plain that you can't grasp that I'm Eastern Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/20/19


Mike. Tu Quoque is never a valid argument.
---JS1234 on 7/20/19


mike:

You wrote: really monk? cluny has a smart mouth so I am giving a taste of his own medicine. the golden rule says Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you. why don't YOU tell that to cluny. he is the one who mocks the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

1) You have yet to say what commandment he "mocks". You have not answered any of my questions in that regard.
2) When someone goes low, you are not supposed to go low. You are supposed to go high. If someone else flings mud, if you then start slinging mud too, the only thing that happens is that you get covered with mud. When you are attacked, Jesus said "turn the other cheek", not "attack in kind".
---StrongAxe on 7/20/19


really monk? cluny has a smart mouth so I am giving a taste of his own medicine. the golden rule says Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you. why don't YOU tell that to cluny. he is the one who mocks the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
---mike on 7/20/19


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mike said, " why don't you research it cluny. even when you are given historical & biblical truth you are too arrogant to accept it. oh i forgot your denomination is preventing the holy spirit to show you the truth"

Mike, let's pay attention. Attacking Cluny is NOT a Christian and loving way to address your love toward him. He worships God alone. Santa, Bugs Bunny, and the others are just smoke to accuse without being accurate or exact. Rather, they are attempts to confuse and obfuscate. Who is the author of confusion?

THAT is who you are listening to. Try hearing God!
---Monk_Brendan on 7/20/19


Sunday was first officially enforced by the edict of Constantine in 321 AD. \\

And you think that means Christians weren't worshipping on Sunday before that?

According to Justin Martyr, Christians were worshipping on Sunday in the early 100's.

Glory to pope, ishtar, bugs bunny justin martyr
---Cluny on 7/19/19

see cluny is NOT obeying christ & God's commandments but man this time he's obeying justin martyr. how does your medicine taste now cluny?

peter said obey God not man.
---mike on 7/20/19


Jerry 6593 said, "Sunday was first officially enforced by the edict of Constantine in 321 AD. Note that this was well before the schism with the Eastern Orthodox in 1054 AD, so that's where you guys got your Sunday.
...
Glory to Jesus Christ, Creator of the Seventy-day Sabbath."


Jerry, First of all, since when is Jesus the creator of a seventy day Sabbath?

That would mean that you are only commanded to worship 0.742857142857143 weeks?

Or did you mean Seventh day Sabbath?

Constantine did not change Saturday to Sunday.
---Monk_Brendan on 7/20/19


strongaxe- of course your favorite verse is 'one day esteemeth over another'to justify SUN-day & of course you are twisting it. but it does NOT say WORSHIP but thanksgiving, adding what is not in romans 14v5
---mike on 7/20/19


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\\
Sunday was first officially enforced by the edict of Constantine in 321 AD. \\

And you think that means Christians weren't worshipping on Sunday before that?

According to Justin Martyr, Christians were worshipping on Sunday in the early 100's.

Glory to pope, RCC, justin martyr
---Cluny on 7/19/19

justin martyr is found in the cathecism of the ROMAN catholic church. instead of obeying christ cluny is blindly obeying the RCC, church fathers & their SUN god.
---mike on 7/20/19


good one jerry. YHVH is the Creator of heaven & earth like revelations says. fear YHVH & worship the one who CREATED heaven & earth the MOST high
---mike on 7/20/19


jerry6593:

Are you only allowed to keep one thing? If you keep a wife, does that mean you can't keep the sabbath too? Your whole argument is ridiculous.

Also, Exodus 2:8-11 talks about WORK, not WORSHIP.


mike:

I HAVE done my own research, and found NOTHING in either testament that COMMANDS worship on the Sabbath, or that FORBIDS worship on any other day.

If you have specific scriptures that say these things, please enlighten us.

In a debate, whenever one asserts something exists, the burden of proof is on him to provide facts supporting that claim, so everybody else can easily verify those facts and the validity of the claim - and not tell everybody to look for it themselves.
---StrongAxe on 7/19/19


What kinds of work are people forbidden to do on the Sabbath? There are no instructions in the New Testament.
---JS1234 on 7/19/19


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strongaxe - why don't you do your own research
---mike on 7/19/19


ax: Read the following CAREFULLY!

Exo 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Note that it says you are to KEEP the 7th day holy, and to work the other six. How do you do these if you are keeping Sunday?

Glory to Jesus Christ, the Creator of the Sabbath day.

---jerry6593 on 7/19/19


\\
Sunday was first officially enforced by the edict of Constantine in 321 AD. \\

And you think that means Christians weren't worshipping on Sunday before that?

According to Justin Martyr, Christians were worshipping on Sunday in the early 100's.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/19/19


mike:

What makes you think Cluny gives glory to Pope, Sun, Ishtar, Bugs Bunny, "Santy Claus", etc.? He never said he gives glory to ANY OF THESE THINGS. Why do yo make assumptions about people, then condemn and ridicule them based solely on the faulty creations of your own mind? You are not interested in truth, only in accusation and condemnation, and guess who the Bible calls The Accuser? Think about whom you are actually serving when you do this.

As Cluny said REPEATEDLY, he is NOT CATHOLIC, so he is not under the Pope.

What commandment, exactly does he reject? There is no commandment to WORSHIP on the sabbath, or to NOT WORSHIP on other days.
---StrongAxe on 7/19/19


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cluny: I've never heard anyone say that the "pope" changed the day, but rather that the "papacy" (office of the pope) did it, and this figuratively as the Catholic Church itself.

Sunday was first officially enforced by the edict of Constantine in 321 AD. Note that this was well before the schism with the Eastern Orthodox in 1054 AD, so that's where you guys got your Sunday.

Thought you'd like to know.


Glory to Jesus Christ, Creator of the Seventy-day Sabbath.



---jerry6593 on 7/19/19


\\But it was more a process. So not a single pope did it. \\

Then just why do SDA faithful as well as others who make an issue of the Saturday Sabbath keep on saying that the Pope (never specifying which) did it?

Does the SDA still teach that the US with it's nasty ole Sunday blue laws will be the second beast, aka False Prophet of Rev 13?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/19


Samuel, I'd like to thank you for being reasonable.

I was able to dl the book you mentioned. I will do my best to read it.

Can anyone here explain why ancient eastern churches of apostolic foundation that were NEVER part of the Roman Church or the Empire have Sunday as their main day of worship?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/19


cluny - oh you also worship santy claus! i rest my case that you give glory & obey to man like pope, SUN, ishtar, bugs bunny, santy claus. like christ said 'you reject the commandments of God so you can keep your tradition. mk 7v9. you don't even know this verse. look who's ignorant now. hehe. oh i forgot you obey man than the word of God.

cluny is giving glory to pope, his SUN god is risen give glory to ishtar, bug bunny & santy claus not christ. i bet you don't even know who ishtar is. hehe
---mike on 7/18/19


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The best book on this topic is Sabbath to Sunday by Samuele Bacchiochi.

The Popes make the claim. But it was more a process. So not a single pope did it. But if you ask the RCC they will tell you they did it.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 7/18/19


In other words, mike. you have no idea.

If you can't spell Santa Claus properly, it's a good sign you know nothing about him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/19


why don't you research it cluny. even when you are given historical & biblical truth you are too arrogant to accept it. oh i forgot your denomination is preventing the holy spirit to show you the truth

cluny is glorifying the pope & worshipping his SUN god.

why don't you include ISHTAR & bug bunny since you celebrate Easter, santy claus since you celebrate christmas
---mike on 7/18/19


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