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Works Of The Law

Paul taught that we are not justified by the Works of the Law. Are the commandments Jesus gave to the man in (Matthew 19:18-19), works of the Law?

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 ---David on 9/14/19
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David doesn't post ALL THESE VERSES. WHY?

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 34 ...Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. ROMANS 6-8 tell us how The Son will make you free. Now those who have been made free.....please obey Galatians 5:1.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

The works of Abraham are defined in Romans 5, James, Hebrews 11, and Galatians. ALL WORKS OF FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 9/28/19


David, it looks like you as a slave to sin, since the SON has yet to set you free from sin, will be locked out.

But you do still have a chance before you die or the Lord comes. Shall we continue to sin that Grace may abound ????? GOD FORBID....Don't you know....?...Romans 6-8 which is GODS WORD speaking through Paul, shows how JESUS..NOT MAN SETS US FREE FROM SIN.

ILL PRAY FOR YOU DAVID.
---kathr4453 on 9/27/19


David I said YES, and I showed you why you are still in bondage to sin. ---kathr4453

Kathryn
Two questions...since you answered, Yes. According to the Son of God, the Author of Salvation, Does the Slave inherit the kingdom of God? Yes or No?

(John 8:34-35) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.

Last question, Which is more important to Salvation, the Word of Jesus Christ or the word of man?
---David on 9/27/19


David I said YES, and I showed you why you are still in bondage to sin. ---kathr4453

Kathryn
Two questions...since you answered, Yes. According to the Son of God, the Author of Salvation, Does the Slave inherit the kingdom of God? Yes or No?

(John 8:34-35) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.

Last question, Which is more important to Salvation, the Word of Jesus Christ or the word of man?
---David on 9/27/19


They cant, and that is why I asked the question. A wise man here on CN, once wisely pointed out, the Ten Commandments are not the Law of Moses. These commandments have existed since the beginning. Adam and Eve committed the first sin. How could Adam and Eve sin without the Law, in respect to what is taught in (1 John 3:4)?
Everyone who sins, breaks the law
---David on 9/26/19

David needs to read Romans 5 which clearly say there was NO LAW between Adam and Moses. Not any law or the Law of Moses. Cain murdered and was sent to NOD. Please show in the law...any law, murderers other than Cain were sent to NOD now or ever for breaking that law.
---kathr453 on 9/27/19




"They cant, and that is why I asked the question". Are you saying Gal 2:16 isn't true?
When scripture seems contradictory, I think my understanding needs developing,God is true, resolves.

"Who has first given to God, that God should repay him? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever!""rm 11:35,36 "Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of Gods mercy,offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual service of worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God."rm 12:1-2
cont
---chria9396 on 9/27/19


Does David read?
///The easiest way to expose a lie. Is to hold it up to the Truth. With that said, In (John 8:34) Jesus said, Everyone who sins, is a slave of sin.
According to your doctrine, Is this true? Yes or No?
---David on 9/25/19

Yes David and by my posting Romans 10:9-13 AGAIN showing you that Strongaxe need not show me that EXPOSED YOUR LIE, that again shows you are steeped in sin...by your own making and own works. You are a perfect example of how exposing YOUR LIES shows you are still in bondage to sin.

Repent David. If you saying you LIED because you think you have a good reason to..again is a sin in and of itself....even if you do have mental issues...,,,is no excuse.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/19
---kathr4453 on 9/26/19


David has us running in circles with two different subject matters he jumps back and forth.
1) bondage to sin vs being set free from sin
2) justification by faith vs justification by the law. I'm trying to see how he is marrying these two ideas together, but 1, .Justification is having our sin forgiven, 2, sanctification is being set free from sin.Scripture shows in Acts...sanctification is by faith.

No scripture teaches if we do enough works ( who knows how much is enough???) 1) you will eventually be forgiven ...OR 2) if you do enough works of the law you will eventually be set free from the power of sin. It's just not there. Not even the Law of Moses taught such things. The law was added so sin would ABOUND...ROMANS 5.
---kathr445 on 9/26/19


David I said YES, and I showed you why you are still in bondage to sin.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

We know according to scripture THE HOPE OF GLORY is CHRIST IN YOU...Colossians 1:24-27. No works whatsoever will justify or glorify a believer.

We are justified AKA SAVED by faith. No such thing as being saved by faith and justified by works. Saved and justified are the same thing. No human ability can save and glorify themselves with the Glory of God.

Our faith in Christ JUSTIFIES! SANCTIFIES and GLORIFIES.
---kathr4453 on 9/26/19


This may be over some heads, but not for others who are growing in the GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST. 7 in scripture mean PERFECT, COMPLETE REST, ect. Rest also meaning we have ceased from our own works. By one offering God has PERFECTED once and for all those who are sanctified in Christ (sic) Hebrews 10:14. Colossians says we are COMPLETE IN HIM. keep in mind IN HIM. And Paul says in Romans it is God who justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5....So again Paul never teaches we are justified by becoming justifiable through good works. We are justified by HIS BLOOD. ROMANS 5:9.....so again YOUR OWN BLOOD WILL NOT DO. You cannot save yourself or shed your own blood.

WE ARE perfect, complete in Christ aka a 777. As opposed to a 666.
---kath453 on 9/26/19




Let me simplify something I said earlier. I said justification and salvation are the same thing. I'll put it another way, salvation comes in 3 parts, Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. You can't be justified and not saved, and you can't be saved and not Justified. You can't be sanctified and not Justified, and those whom God has justified He has also Glorified. Romans 8:30

Even Sanctification is by faith, ACTS 20:32 ...and inheritance to those who are SANCTIFIED BY FAITH IN HIM.
---kat453 on 9/26/19


Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins,( WHICH IS YOUR JUSTIFICATION) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Here is the verse I'm looking for. Here is justification and sanctification in a nutshell. And those justified and sanctified IN CHRIST WILL BE GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH CHRIST. ROMANS 8:17....for SONS AND HEIRS ....
---kat4453 on 9/26/19


David, I answered your question more than 20 times.---kathr4453

My question Kathryn?
I gave you a, yes or no question. You never said yes or no so No, you did not answer my question. I made it that type of question to keep you from...well I let Jesus tell you.

How can both be true?---chria9396

Chiria
They cant, and that is why I asked the question. A wise man here on CN, once wisely pointed out, the Ten Commandments are not the Law of Moses. These commandments have existed since the beginning. Adam and Eve committed the first sin. How could Adam and Eve sin without the Law, in respect to what is taught in (1 John 3:4)?
Everyone who sins, breaks the law
---David on 9/26/19


kathr4453:

You wrote: Was Abel's sacrifice FAITH or works of the law?

Since there is no Law in 10 or 619 Commandments "Thou Shalt Sacrifice Thy Firstborn Child", it is not a Work of the Law - especially as neither was given yet.


David:

Not blending cotton+wool WAS a Law of Moses. Matthew 19 does not mention "Works of Law".

Let's suppose he only meant 10C. He only mentioned 6 ("Love your neighbor ones", curiously no "Love God" ones). I'd love to hear Sabbatarians discuss this verse. Jerry?

We are SAVED through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), and JUSTIFIED by works. These are two related by different things. 1 Co 3:15 shows someone saved despite bad works.
---StrongAxe on 9/26/19


Taking Romans 2:13 alone out of context is a dangerous thing. Does God teach two different ways of justification...one through the law, and the other through faith? NO

Let's go back to the beginning,..in Genesis....addressed again in Hebrews 11. Was Abel's sacrifice FAITH or works of the law? Hebrews says its FAITH. Again Abraham was imputed righteousness, by FAITH, seeing there was no law until Moses.

Romans 1-2-3 tell a story and is dangerous to take one verse out of context.

In Romans 2 Paul is addressing the JEWS, also showing after his dissertation ALL! JEW AND GENTILE have fallen short of the glory of God. Paul is not teaching two ways to be justified.
---kathr4453 on 9/26/19


"(Romans 2:13) For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

---David on 9/26/19

True.
However, Gal 2:16, "a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
How can both be true? The only way I know of is that if the doers referenced rm 2:13 do works as a result of the Lord's work within.
---chria9396 on 9/26/19


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Yes, it is a work, but it is NOT a "work of the Law", Works of the Law are things like "Do not kill", "Do not steal", "Do not blend cotton and wool", "Honor your father and mother", All of these things are well and nice, but don't justify you,---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Blend Cotton and Wool... LOL. But Jesus didnt give that as a commandment in (Matthew 19:18-19). And as to your other statement, I have an easy Question. According to Paul in (Romans 2:13), is it the hearers or the doers of the Law, who shall be justified?

(Romans 2:13) For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
---David on 9/26/19


David, I answered your question more than 20 times. Those who have been SET FREE from sin through Jesus death and resurrection life ....believing Romans 10:9-13, AKA BELIEF AKA FAITH IN Jesus death and resurrection life AKA THE CROSS, are not in bondage to sin. Both Paul and John go into DETAIL WHY. Paul details Romans 6-8, and John in 1 St John show because HIS SEED is in us we do not sin. Paul shows because Christ is in us we died to sin...because the Spirit of the law of Christ has SET US FREE.

This is my answer according to scripture. There's only One Way you can be set FREE. This FREEDOM is instant....not something "we" achieve through works of any kind. WE MATURE THROUGH Works of faith.
---kathr4453 on 9/26/19


It might be David is confusing maturity with ????? Maybe a belief mixed with some Hindu doctrine he's unaware of. Hebrews states we are SANCTIFIED through the Body of Christ ONCE AND FOR ALL.

So we have Justification, That is GOD Declaring us NOT GUILTY, IMPUTING TO US THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST, ( not our own SELFRIGHTEOUSNESS) based on our faith in Jesus death and resurrection.
Then we have our Sanctification, THROUGH THE BODY IF CHRIST ..Hebrews 10 ...IS INSTANT.

So when you are saved there will be EVIDENCE...those works GOD has before prepared we walk in. Not any works David or man says you need to walk in.

To those saved....PLEASE ASK THE LORD HIS WILL FOR YOUR LIFE.
---kat453 on 9/26/19


The problem with TEACHERS OF WORKS Is they put you in bondage again in some form or fashion, called LEGALIZED GRACE. It's what Galatians is all about. BEWARE!
Those who are in bondage to this false teaching have had their destiny here and now stolen away. Stolen by keeping you literally bound up in man made this or that , that you cannot hear the Lords voice saying to you....THIS IS MY WILL FOR YOU. Also in order to know His will you need to obey Romans 12:1-2. Then as you die daily to your own desires, the desires of the Lord will become loud and clear. What the Lord has for you, God does NOT tell David first to tell you. The Lord tells YOU directly. The ONLY TEACHER YOU NOW NEED concerning Doing Gods Will, is the Holy Spirit.
---kath453 on 9/26/19


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There's no such thing as a TEACHER OF WORKS. ((And WORKS OF FAITH NO MAN CAN TEACH...ONLY GOD CAN)))) It's a man made self appointed delusion David and the Church of David has totally made up.

We are called to preach the Gospel, and those IN CHRIST ALONE have been given gifts God chooses to give us..we don't pick our own Gift. A teacher if WORKS is not one of them .

Please study Galatians and what Paul said and went through when these self appointed teachers of WORKS tried to upend all that was done there. Paul didn't say...OH NO, NOW I NEED TO FORM WORKS BACK IN THEM....NO Paul said....I need to form CHRIST IN THEM AGAIN.

Legalized GRACE does not work. Take Pauls word for it.
---kat4453 on 9/26/19


I am a teacher of works, as was our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus taught those who keep his commandments, (Not referring to the Law of Moses), gain the favor of God. (John 14:21) David/////

Ok David, please give us YOUR list of commandments works that are NOT the law of Moses.

And please back up those not law of Moses WORKS with Scripture. Obviously James and Hebrews 11 just does not do it for you...correct?

So let's hear YOUR VERSION of your Bible according to David.

OR are you going to change the subject AGAIN, to avoid answering a direct question?
---kathr4453 on 9/25/19


I'm also curious where David teaches his no Moses law works of commandments. He said he is not affiliated with ANY main stream Church....so is it some new Cult you have started? What do you call your group?

And is he or isn't he saying Romans 10:9-13 is a WORK OF COMMANDMENTS Jesus taught or is he now backing down on that one? Since in the a Gospels Jesus hadn't died and rose again yet....how does it fit into your works of commandments of Jesus taught that is not the Law of Moses?

So David is saying, if you WORK to keep these non Moses commandments you can SET YOURSELF FREE FROM SIN?????WRONG!
---kath453 on 9/25/19


Kathryn
Everyone noticed you avoided answering the simple Yes or No question I gave you. And I suspect, everyone knows why too.
---David on 9/25/19


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I'm trying to understand what this discussion is about...
---JS1234 on 9/25/19


David, are you aware that "confessing with your mouth" is itself a work? ---Cluny

Absolutely! Remember, I am a teacher of works, as was our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus taught those who keep his commandments, (Not referring to the Law of Moses), gain the favor of God. (John 14:21)

To be honest, Today, Jesus would not be allowed to teach what he taught in the Gospel. They would scold him with what they believe Paul taught. Just as they do to me.
---David on 9/25/19


Cluny:

You wrote: David, are you aware that "confessing with your mouth" is itself a work?

Yes, it is a work, but it is NOT a "work of the Law", Works of the Law are things like "Do not kill", "Do not steal", "Do not blend cotton and wool", "Honor your father and mother", etc. All of these things are well and nice, but don't justify you, and they don't help to save you. Confessing with the mouth doesn't justify you either (Jesus does that), but it IS necessary for salvation.
---StrongAxe on 9/25/19


The ONLY REASON David is a slave to sin is because he has never been SET FREE. JOHN 8:36. SO IF THE SON SETS YOU FREE YOU WILL BE FREE INDEED.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/19


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Jesus promised in the Gospels He came to set us free from sin. Paul goes into more detail HOW we are set free from sin THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. ROMANS 6-8. David openly says he does not believe. I didn't write Romans 6-8 David.....GOD DID. So please stop accusing me of a false belief. I simply believe Romans 6-8 that's all.

So here we go round and round again David arguing against the truth EXPOSING HIS FALSE DOCTRINE, that you can be set free some other way.

The truth indeed David exposes all sorts of lies AKA: SIN.

The Scriptures tell us what we need to know. It doesn't need your commentary to understand it. God just asks your obedience to believe it and obey it. It's what Romans 16:25-27 is about.
---kat453 on 9/25/19


The easiest way to expose a lie. Is to hold it up to the Truth. With that said, In (John 8:34) Jesus said, Everyone who sins, is a slave of sin.
According to your doctrine, Is this true? Yes or No?
---David on 9/25/19

Yes David and by my posting Romans 10:9-13 AGAIN showing you that Strongaxe need not show me that EXPOSED YOUR LIE, that again shows you are steeped in sin...by your own making and own works. You are a perfect example of how exposing YOUR LIES shows you are still in bondage to sin.

Repent David. If you saying you LIED because you think you have a good reason to..again is a sin in and of itself....even if you do have mental issues...,,,is no excuse.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/19


David, I don't see anyone disagreeing with Romans 10:9-13....do you? Why do you call it MY TRUTH.....? It's GODS TRUTH. That's what I'm confused about...I post scripture, and you argue against that very scripture, AND THEN you agree with that scripture ...it's totally NUTS. I personally believe you have mental issues. You need help David. You are so wrapped up in arguing with me, you don't even know from one minute to the next what you are arguing about or against.

My prayer for you is to take some time off here, get yourself help, and stop obsessing over me and my beliefs. It's obvious your attacks are PERSONAL...again BIG SIN.....BIG BIG SIN.
---kat453 on 9/25/19


We are talking about being saved, but from what?
---JS1234 on 9/24/19


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David, are you aware that "confessing with your mouth" is itself a work?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/25/19


Kathryn
You make all these false claims about me, and anyone who dares to disagree with your Truth. Lets settle this once and for all using the Truth.

The easiest way to expose a lie. Is to hold it up to the Truth. With that said, In (John 8:34) Jesus said, Everyone who sins, is a slave of sin.
According to your doctrine, Is this true? Yes or No?
---David on 9/25/19


Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. This is pretty clear---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
So now you do believe you must do something to be saved. Congratulations!! Now if you can just convince Kathryn.
---David on 9/24/19

Now that PROVES David does not read my posts, I was the first to post Romans 10:9-:13 So please tell me, what is wrong with David? Is it mental or malicious? It can only be one or the other. mental can be forgiven....malicious over and over CAN NOT.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/19


So NOW David likes this Gospel?Since when?

//THIS GOSPEL DAVID HATES: they don't believe JESUS SAVES. They think they can save themselves.

Romans 10:9-13
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
---kathr4453 on 9/23/19////
---kat453 on 9/25/19


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I'll give David the benefit of the doubt and say he has mental issues. A possible multiple personality disorder, where TODAY he believes as the MAJORITY of Christians believe, which is Romans 10:9-13. Tomorrow he will most likely change his mind and claim AGAIN, he does NOT believe as the majority of Christians and has been once again given personal revelations and argue against Romans 10:9-13.

Maybe Strongaxe has time for those here on line who's conversations flip flop from day to day or HR to HR,...one minute agreeing with you, and the next calling you a false teacher.

BUT does David REALLY believe Romans 10:9-13 IS ALL one needs to do to be saved? Let's see......lets see if HIS idea of WORKS is simply to believe.
---kath453 on 9/25/19


Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. This is pretty clear---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
So now you do believe you must do something to be saved. Congratulations!! Now if you can just convince Kathryn.
---David on 9/24/19


It's pretty clear in 1st John that you KNOW you have passed from death to life, that you KNOW you have eternal life, children KNOW their sins are forgiven , young men KNOW when they have overcome the evil one, etc.

Strongaxe, I believe a better way of saying what you said is God knows the heart...David does not. So David is out of line accusing anyone who's faith is in Jesus Christ, who believe and obey the Gospel of Grace, because he seems to have come up with his own rules and regulations God never did.

I believe one KNOWS when they have been Born Again.
---kathr4453 on 9/24/19


Those Born Again know our spirit will witness with the Holy Spirit in us the following verses. If you haven't had that assurance, please ask the Lord to settle this matter once and for all in your life. Please don't let anyone then try to rob you of that assurance.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
---kat453 on 9/24/19


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David:

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This is pretty clear. What is not so clear is our own ability to judge whether or not our own belief is sincere. Sincere belief can still be wrong. Their faith is in their own faith, not in Jesus. Thus, there are many people who sincerely believe they are saved, yet are not.

Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
---StrongAxe on 9/24/19


Ok David, so now that we know, you are someone who has made up your own doctrine, not affiliated with anyone but yourself. The problem with that is NO SCRIPTURE is of private interpretation. And the BOC is in UNITY with the Holy Spirit as Christ is our head, and all wisdom and knowledge flows down from HIM. You claim you are the only one God reveals truth to? That's a dangerous and delusional place to be.

Because of that you can YELP here all you want, as you have also admitted you deny the Preaching of the CROSS, loud and clear. You are an enemy of the CROSS.

So if you don't mind, please stop attacking me with your solitary doctrine no one else agrees with.....since you claim to be a lone wolf.....no pun intended.
---kathr4453 on 9/24/19


For the last time, YOU TELL what Church you are affiliated with, so others can research YOUR doctrine. If it's YOURS alone, of private interpretation....it's false.- Kath
Kathryn
And For the last time, No, I am not affiliated with any organized doctrine which are represented here on CN. My doctrine is founded upon the Gospel of Christ, taught to me through Gods Holy Spirit.

StrongAxe
Protestant believers are taught, If you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, You are saved!!!, and therefore, God the Father must accept you as a Son.
The Truth is, we must be adopted as Sons, and this is a decision God alone makes. (John 8:34-35) & (Ephesians 1:4-5)
---David on 9/24/19


Interestingly enough there are those who say "believing" is a work. But ive made it clear to David and all Calvinist's I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT. But again if David has never read any of my posts .....as I suspect, because he accuses me of things I've never said in the first place, he wouldn't know that.. I'm not sure what the problem is with him. To say my beliefs represent the majority of Christians who are going to hell is really bazaar. First those going to hell are not even Christian. Secondly there is no such thing as a Christian in the NT who's not adopted. And ALL CHRISTIANS who've have had their sin THROUGH JESUS CHRIST are forgiven and are INSTANTLY ADOPTED .
---kathr4453 on 9/24/19


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David:

You wrote: when they are adopted in the manner prescribed by the Bible and not by a false doctrine.

What do you mean? People are adopted by God, not by doctrines. Unless you mean adopted by a church or a congregation, and in that case, such adoption has merely social significance, and no theological relevance whatsoever.


The big confusion on this topic is between salvation, and judgment of one's works. The two are not necessarily tied together. All of 1 Corinthians 3 talks about this. In particular:

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Thus, one can still be saved, even though one's works are destroyed as worthless.
---StrongAxe on 9/23/19


THIS GOSPEL DAVID HATES: they don't believe JESUS SAVES. They think they can save themselves. Whoever they are.

Romans 10:9-13

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
---kathr4453 on 9/23/19


David, I also suggest you take the Salvation Quiz here on CN. I made 100%. What did you make?

Also do you believe CN teaches a false Gospel of Salvation? So that means you are here to attack CN as well...correct ? So your really here on CN to attack Christians....isn't that correct?
---kat453 on 9/23/19


David, there you go again, making false accusations for the purpose of attacking the Gospel.

For the last time, YOU TELL what Church you are affiliated with, so others can research YOUR doctrine. If it's YOURS alone, of private interpretation....it's false.

You must be very ashamed of your denomination. OR you lied and are JW . Come clean David. Remember LYING is a sin. Please stop lecturing on sin when you are STEEPED IN SIN. Is that why you know so. Much about sin....because you practice it daily? Lying, bearing false witness....PRIDE, SELFRIGHTEOUSNESS....you're up to your eyeballs in it.
---kathr4453 on 9/23/19


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ANOTHER false statement . Those who have been adopted cannot be UNadopted. ---kathr4453

I agree Kathryn,....when they are adopted in the manner prescribed by the Bible and not by a false doctrine. What you fail to understand is, Your teaching paint you into a corner, when someone asks, What must I do to be saved?

According to Your doctrine, the answer must be,....Why sir, there is nothing you can do to be saved, because if you had to do anything to be saved,...it would be works. Why doesnt anyone in the bible answer this question as you do?
---David on 9/23/19


\\Those who PRETEND to be Christians who have never been crucified with Christ putting to death our old man of sin...simply are NOT adopted ...and will continue to sin. These are called TARES DAVID. Please know the difference.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/19\\

Projecting again, kathr?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/22/19


The majority of Christians believe as you do. And this teaching, is the singular reason, Christians who believe in this false teaching, will never be adopted into family of God.
---David on 9/22/19

ANOTHER false statement . Those who have been adopted cannot be UNadopted. You make up the strangest things David, and have no scripture to support your silly ideas.

Those BORN of God are sons, and heirs NOW, and can never be UNBORN! OR ABORTED. Abortion even here is against God...its MURDER.

Those who PRETEND to be Christians who have never been crucified with Christ putting to death our old man of sin...simply are NOT adopted ...and will continue to sin. These are called TARES DAVID. Please know the difference.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/19


David WHO said what you said? ---kathr4453

Kathryn, it was in response to your statement, which I didnt have enough word allotment to include in my previous post.
SO now that we have our SIN FORGIVEN and IN CHRIST are a NEW CREATURE created in righteousness....---kat453 on 9/20/19

Though you have continued to sin, after becoming a Christian, you do not believe these sins need to be confessed, because you believe when you become a Christian, all future sins are forgiven without the need of confession.

The majority of Christians believe as you do. And this teaching, is the singular reason, Christians who believe in this false teaching, will never be adopted into family of God.
---David on 9/22/19


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Here's the thing too David, when we are Born Again, having the Indwelling Spirit of the Lord living in us 24/7 the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin when we have failed or sinned against God. So I disagree with you that if you sin, you are in darkness. You also fail to read all of 1 St John that His Seed remains in us...that we don't go around sinning....BUT WHEN WE DO, He is faithful and Just to forgive when we do confess...and fess up to what ever it is. The TRUE BELIEVER is miserable when out of step with the Lord. So my experience is when I fall short, the HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS ME making me feel miserable until I have made things right. So I don't see that as being in darkness.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/19


David, we also see in 1John that those who hate are in darkness. Because God is Love, and in Him is no Darkness, and if we are IN HIM we are in His Light. We don't make our own light. We can't light our own candle. GOD IS LIGHT, those IN CHRIST ARE LIGHT.

Light exposes darkness.

When people make up lies about others THAT IS HATE. To pretend you're trying to do this or that......it's still HATE. NO LIE IS OF THE TRUTH. And telling someone, WELL, you didn't say that, BUT, ....the but is because you don't understand what I'm saying and gives you no right to add YOUR LIES to what I believe, because you don't either like what I believe or don't understand what I believe. So David. Go confess your sin, and stay in Gods LIGHT.
---kat453 on 9/22/19


David why do you keep changing the subject. WHO said what you said? Again making up yada yada yada again....

Did I ever say i don't believe 1st John?

So now you want to change the definition of "works" for CONFESSION?

OK so do what I did and replace the word WORKS for CONFESSION of Sin....and see if it works.

The Pharisee is who did not see himself a sinner....the publican did. The publican said BE MERCIFUL TO ME A SINNER. He admitted he was a sinner in need of mercy. Those who ...like TRUMP, who say they've never sinned are the ones deceived...and not forgiven.

I don't understand your point.....just a subject changer because ......?David I AM FORGIVEN, and now a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/19


Kathryn
The greatest hurdle, mans teachings have ever placed in the believers path, is the false teaching, sin is automatically forgiven without need of a confession.

The Truth is, Unconfessed sin is unforgiven sin and unconfessed sin leaves the believer in darkness. There should be no argument over this, for God will prove it to you by restoring the light, when you ask for his forgiveness. Which is what John taught in ( 1John:1).

When you are in Gods light, you will feel guilt over the least sin, but when you live in the darkness, you will feel no guilt for even the greatest of sin. Confess your sin before God (Luke 11:1-4), as Jesus taught, and see for yourself.
---David on 9/21/19


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Hello Kat I love your answers.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/20/19


David, please tell us all what part of 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 you don't understand?

When you can grasp and answer that first, you will begin to see your false accusations lead nowhere.

Even JS1234 POSTED SUPPORTING SCRIPTURE.
---kathr4453 on 9/20/19


David, let me simplify....1 Cor 13:11-15 verse 11 show there is first the FOUNDATION of Christ, meaning the foundation that Jesus died for our sin, and has forgiven those who's faith is in Jesus death and resurrection. The Jews we see Paul refer to in Romans 10 overlooked the FOUNDATION, the CHIEF CORNERSTONE.....like YOU have tripped over that truth, and continue to go about spouting their own righteousness.

SO now that we have our SIN FORGIVEN and IN CHRIST are a NEW CREATURE created in righteousness and holiness, we now do those WORKS God has before ordained that we walk in. Those WORKS done IN CHRIST will be REWARDED....and WORKs done apart from the power of the Holy Spirit will be burned up....kaput....yet we are still SAVED.
---kat453 on 9/20/19


Richard

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
---JS1234 on 9/19/19


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David, please show where I said an act of disobedience against God is not sin.

Kathryn
You never said it, I was pointing out, you unknowingly teach this through your, No Works doctrine. Allow me to show you.

God says will will be judged according to our works. Dont Your teachings claim, Works do not play a role in our salvation? How can works not play a role, when God will judge us according to our works?
---David on 9/20/19


Your second lie....

What do you call it, in relationship to your definition of faith, which is also without works?
---David on 9/19/19

Again David, you like John blatantly lie, or you simply do not read what others say. Hebrews 11 and James I HAVE POINTED OUT HERE OVER AND OVER show faith by evidence of their works of faith.

Why do you think it's funny to show yourself a liar? It's your reputation your making a joke of...as others can see you make false statements.

Anything to keep your conversation going????? Is that what it is.....you falsely accuse, knowing I will defend and call you out....exactly what are you getting out of that? Are you so needy of attention? Because that's what it seems like to me.
---kathr4453 on 9/19/19


Nobody will escape the consequence of of there actions ?

1 john 3:9 - Whosoever has been born of God does not sin,For his seed remains in him: And he can Not sin , Because he has been born of God.
---RichardC on 9/19/19


David, I believe this is more detailed about the works of those who are saved.

1 Corinthians 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
---kathr4453 on 9/19/19


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David, I agree. Nobody will escape the consequences of their actions.
---JS1234 on 9/19/19


Since you disagree, that an act of disobedience against God, is called sin. What do you call it, in relationship to your definition of faith, which is also without works?
---David on 9/19/19

David, please show where I said an act of disobedience against God is not sin. Why like so many here do you also lie and twist to try to continue a conversation by making things up. I have issues debating with dishonest people like yourself.

I already gave you 1 Cor 13:11-15 concerning our WORKS as one who is saved. The works of the lost no matter how wonderful still fall short of the glory of God.

Build on the foundation of Christ Crucified first David. When that happens, you will find it harder and harder to lie.
---kat453 on 9/19/19


Kathryn
The Bible says we will be judged by our Works. I do not believe Works are a thought, but an Action. Whether the action is in obedience or in disobedience to God, both Works will be judged by God. Paul, himself, taught this in (Romans 2: 5-9).

Since you disagree, that an act of disobedience against God, is called sin. What do you call it, in relationship to your definition of faith, which is also without works?
---David on 9/19/19


David, your lesson for the day does not alter the verses I posted below. The Just aka JUSTIFIED shall live by FAITH. a great chapter you may want to meditate on that defines FAITH, Hebrews 11 and gives examples of Faith God sees as works if faith, also James defining, begins in Genesis with Abel and Cain.

Now you think you are doing good works by thinking you are a teacher of the word, and bring in false doctrine it's called EVIL WORKS. AND if you are doing it in your own strength yet first saved by grace through faith, it's called wood hay and stubble, and will be burned up. But we are still saved.
******1 Corinthians 3:11:15 ***** you need to meditate on these verses deeply and sincerely. I hope that answers your question.
---kathr4453 on 9/18/19


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Kathryn
Lesson for today...
What are Evil Works?

(John 7:7) The world cannot hate you, but Me it hateth, because I testify of it that the works thereof are evil.
(2 Timothy 4:14) Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil, the Lord reward him according to his works.
(James 3:16) For where envy and strife are, there is confusion and every evil work.
---David on 9/18/19


Also David you can substitute GOOD WORKS IN PLACE OF sin and it still would not change the verses ....Faith is not of the law...your good works or bad work theory. However don't confuse the WORKS OF FAITH with your works theory. There is no such animal as bad works of faith.

Scrambling up scripture to encourage a more intellectual dialogue is gnosticism. God's word does not need to be tossed around for your entertainment. It's not hard David..so why are you trying to make it so and in doing so change the content...twist more like it.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/19


David, let me make it even simpler for you.....your version is not according to scripture. If it was you would have backed it up with scripture. And because there are umpteen verses that refute your THEORY, I reject your beliefs.

It doesn't surprise me that you would so twist scripture to fit into your false belief system.

The Bible NEVER alternates the word WORKS with SIN.

NOT EVEN "WORKS OF FAITH" fit your description.

Again David tell us YOUR DENOMINATION, so I can study their beliefs to see if you have twisted theirs as well, or if you are just someone alone, having your own private interpretation of scripture.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/19


Ok let's see how silly David's theory is by exchanging the word SIN for Works of the law.

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by SIN. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone,

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by SIN but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by SIN for by the SIN shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by SIN or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by SIN or by the hearing of faith?
---kat453 on 9/17/19


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Kathryn, I will try to simplify it for you.
We all know sin is the transgression of the Law. But when we sin, sin becomes a Work, a Work for which we shall be judged by God.

When the Bible says, God will judge us according to our Works, it refers to both obedience to God and to disobedience...AKA...Sin.

Most people dont look at sin in this context, and I was merely creating a different perspective to open intelligent conversation.
---David on 9/17/19


The Bible is clear, Jesus was born under the OT.
when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law Gal 4:4
This explains why, after he was born, he was circumcised and sacrifices were offered according to the law (Luke 2:21-24).
During his life on earth, Jesus also ministered under the OT The scripture is just as clear about this
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Heb 9:17
Since a testament is of force only after men are dead, then the NT could not begin until after the death of Jesus. Jesus died in the very end of his earthly ministry as recorded in Matt 27:50, Mark 15:37, Luke 23:46, and John 19:30.
---michael_e on 9/16/19


Thou shall not steal, Kill, lie, or commit adultery are not works of the Law, Since You do nothing to keep these Laws. They Only become Works, if you break these Laws. David///////

David, You say all sorts of nonsense without scripture to back up.

They only become works if you break ? That's nuts.....they become SIN when broken.

James uses Rahab as works with faith. Her Works here has nothing to do with the law or any law but action proving her faith. She believed the Report, HID and lied....as a result she was told to put a scarlet thread in her window...she did...showing again FAITH in their promise not to kill her or her family. Noah built an ark an action based on what he believed God said.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/19


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