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Death Penalty Biblical

Is the death penalty biblical?

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 ---trey on 9/23/19
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kathr4453:

You claimed on three separate blogs that Cluny claimed that the Orthodox raised over 3,000,000 from the dead. I've never heard him say this, and I would have remembered, as it would have been an outrageously ridiculous claim. Where do you believe he said this? Please cite the blog and date, so we can all see it. I've tried searching on the blogs, and even on Google (which is a great way to find posts on here), but nothing has shown up, as I don't believe such a post exists.
---StrongAxe on 10/29/19


Please give 5 names of those you claim the Orthodox raised from the dead.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19


\\But like I was saying...this hypocricy coming from our Orthodoxand RCC didn't mind murdering \\

Please give ONE example of Orthodox murdering.

Bet you can't.

Glory to Jesus Christ!!
---Cluny on 10/27/19


Still waiting for those 5 just 5 names out of over 3,000,000 Cluny bragged his one and only true religion raised from the dead.

Should be something you are super proud of and should have no problem disclosing.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19


I think Cluny is imposing Laws on the unsaved world and governments that Jesus never meant...or I think Paul before his execution would have written a whole chapter on it. No where in our constitution is John 8 even mentioned. It does say separation of church and state....which we see the folly in the MA Witch burnings, who did not separate church/ religion from the state murdering as well. Where was their John 8 guidelines

But like I was saying...this hypocricy coming from our Orthodoxand RCC didn't mind murdering .....unless they are claiming they were sinless giving them the go ahead.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19




\\
Are you saying one must be without sin in order to execute criminals who's crime falls under the death penalty, in many states?\\

According to Jesus, you do.

Of course, I've noticed that His words mean little to you.

Sometimes, you don't even recognize them when I quote them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/19


I think the Crusades estimate around 1.7 million. These are executions done in the name of Christianity...YIKES. One religion forcing others to submit to that religion.

So all throughout history there have been executions of various kinds based also on ones religious beliefs, not just crimes of breaking the law..re murder Etc.

So looking at history from the beginning until now, things are a lot more conservative in enforcing the death penalty here in the USA anyway.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19


Cluny deflecting again.

You CAN however list 5 people you claim have been raised from the dead by the Orthodox within the last 5 years, you claiming the Orthodox have raised more from the dead than all those in my particular denomination...which is over 3,000,000 world wide.

Second question....if the Orthodox have raised over 3,000,000 anytime since the resurrection of Christ...believe me it would be all over the history books, news, etc.

It's just a bold face LIE. You stuck your foot in it Cluny just because you were being contrary and now you are shown to be a LIAR. Exactly what Trump does.
---kathr4453 on 10/26/19


StrongAxe and kath:

During the 300 years of its activity, the Spanish Inquisition actually executed only 3000 persons.

This is 10 a year.

While I had found this out during my reading, it was also mentioned in a TV show on one of the history channels.

Furthermore, many common criminals claimed to be heretics because the Inquisition's jails were more humane than the secular ones.

Puritan New England executed more in a shorter period, but that doesn't get talked about.
---Cluny on 10/26/19


Cluny:

No, she can't, but it's not for lack of facts, but the 125 word limit that makes it hard to supply much data.

When one can find plenty of information by googling "burning at the stake", it's easier to just direct one to easily-found information than to waste half a dozen message dribbling out small tidbits of information through an eyedropper, as the message size limit allows.

Wikipedia "Death by burning".
The Inquisition declared people heretics. The Church didn't actually carry out the execution itself but turned accused over to civil authorities to be burned at the stake. Responsibility by proxy (just as Hitler committed genocide even if he never personally gassed anyone). 30K-50K victims!
---StrongAxe on 10/26/19




\\
You have wiki Cluny....just research all the burning at the stakes...the crusades etc.

Not enough room to list all you ask.\\

In other words, you cannot prove your allegations.

As far as the Crusades. they were Christian Europe's response to the first wave of mahometan jihadistaism, which was aimed at the Orthodox.

Most burnings at the stake were done on the Continent by Protestants.

In fact, the only Iron Maiden extant is in Protestant Germany.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/19


You have wiki Cluny....just research all the burning at the stakes...the crusades etc.

Not enough room to list all you ask.

But again asking you to list at least 5 people in the past 5 years the Orthodox has raised form the dead should not be a pro men since you claim it's well over 1,000,000.

No smart remark answers...if you can't answer YOU ARE LYING.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/19


\\But MASS MURDERING from RCC controlled countries.\\

What country?

When?

By whose orders?

Be specific in your answers, please.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/19


Here is something to think about. Paul was executed. Executed by his own government, being a Roman Citizen. He wrote about that where he knew his time was short, and that he had finished his course....but what is interesting, he never railed against his government implementing the death penalty ...or went on some soap box speech about it being against God, or how dare they do this etc. or that God was gonna get them for this...not one word in that direction.

He accepted his fate. Same God...same truths, same Gospel of John existed.

But MASS MURDERING from RCC controlled countries...now THAT was an atrocity .
---kathr4453 on 10/24/19


OH I agree Strongaxe, and today we have so much more like DNA etc, that they didn't have years ago where many were wrongly convicting, but now can be exonerated .

I believe in severe cases, and where there is no doubt whatsoever...like the Ted Bundy's etc. Yet many of those end up in mental institutions for life.

Child Preditors/ molesters/ murderers should be eliminated from the human gene pool.
---kathr4453 on 10/23/19


kathr4453:

There are many cases where juries have erroneously convicted people of crimes based solely on circumstantial evidence (and/or personal prejudice - e.g. have you read To Kill a Mockingbird?), and the accused was either later exonerated after serving many years in prison, or died in prison before they were exonerated.

It's even worse when a capital crime is involved, because often the accused is executed before being exonerated, and once that happens, and the damage done to them because of the wrong conviction can never be fixed.

The latter is one reason why the U.S. has the death penalty only for he most severe crimes, and many countries have eliminated the death penalty altogether.
---StrongAxe on 10/23/19


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Are you saying one must be without sin in order to execute criminals who's crime falls under the death penalty, in many states? Even a jury can makes that decision .

Realistically no one but God is without sin, and it appears this is the excuse some give that are against the death penalty ..

Jesus was talking to JEWS under the LAW OF MOSES where adultery was a sin resulting in death. Jesus was showing the Law of Moses was about to change...Jesus knowing He was soon to go to the Cross for the forgivness of sin...even sin in Israel worthy of death and sin not worthy of death.

We are not a THEOCRACY...or Israel. And our GOVERNMENT laws are not bound by John 8. You are trying to mix apples and oranges.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/19


kathr4453:

You had written: That excuse is so lame. We don't forgive and let go murderers child molesters rapists because we are all sinners. YIKES! That is such an irresponsible attitude, which also would include any form of justice.

That statement implies that applying "Let he who is free of sin throw the first stone" to ALL crimes would be absurd, and I agree. THAT is why I mentioned other crimes - that this statement only applied to executions (i.e. capital crimes).
---StrongAxe on 10/22/19


Did someone say those in debt should be put to death? Still can't see where that even fits into the conversation.

England had a debtors prison, America didn't and doesn't. Some countries do. That's their business.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/19


So since Strongaxe is answering for Cluny, ask him what the qualifications for the executioner has to do with anything. I believe in the separation of Church and State, so John 8 doesn't apply to our laws .

So is the question...is the death penalty Biblical under the LAW of Moses....or what. Now looking at the question it's very evasive....

Of coarse in Biblical times it was Biblical...and from Biblical times to today, many governments enforce the death penalty ...as some states here do and other states don't.

Is giving someone a traffic ticket for speeding Biblical? Do all laws have to be Biblical? Do states , Governments who execute HAVE to apply John 8 ? NO. So what does that have to do with anything?
---kathr4453 on 10/21/19


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kathr4453:

All I've seen discussed on this thread is about let he who is free of sin cast the first stone, i.e. the Woman Taken in Adultery.

What are the qualifications? He who is without sin? Just doesn't fly here ....otherwise even putting in prison would go against that mindset.

First, Jesus was teaching his followers. His commandments apply to them, nobody else, including governments (UNLESS those government claim to be Christian).

Second, he was speaking about the death penalty - NOT any other kind of penalty. He told debtors to reconcile with creditors before they were thrown in prison, NOT that debtor's prison was wrong.
---StrongAxe on 10/20/19


What part of John 8 ....just throwing out a chapter is playing games here. Is it the part where the woman was taken in Adultry? Or some other part of John 8...

Please give specific verses, and back up as to why and how that applies to any Government whether here or elsewhere?

What are the qualifications? He who is without sin? Just doesn't fly here ....otherwise even putting in prison would go against that mindset.

I believe in the death penalty for horrible acts towards others...towards children, towards woman.

And John 8 shows nowhere our Governments cannot procede.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/19


Those reading from Genesis to Revelation know the meaning of condemn. If Jesus didn't come into the world to CONDEMN the world...then He came to SAVE ...that only takes place via FORGIVENESS.

The Gospel is one thing, setting up Governments and laws are another. Jesus , Paul, Peter etc never told GOVERNMENTS who believe in the separation of Church and state how to run their governments. Jesus didn't come to save governments, but INDIVIDUALS from HELL...


John 8:10-11

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
---kath453 on 10/20/19


john9346:

You keep making false assumptions about my world view and jumping to incorrect conclusions. Also, "Is DP Biblical?", does not depend on whether one believes the bible or not. Asking whether something is implied by any canon does not require one to believe that canon (e.g. asking "Was Anakin Luke's father?" does not require one to believe Star Wars is real).


kathr4453:

By whose standards? Under Jewish law at the time, murder, adultery, blasphemy, and sabbath breaking all earned the death penalty. None was worse than the others.

We don't forgive and let go murderers child molesters rapists because we are all sinners.

John 8 doesn't talk about forgiveness. Only execution.
---StrongAxe on 10/20/19


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I don't think John 8 is the guideline for dealing with various crimes re :murder, etc. The lady taken in adultery was not a crazed murderer, or whatever a states guideline is for the death penalty. That excuse is so lame. We don't forgive and let go murderers child molesters rapists because we are all sinners. YIKES! That is such an irresponsible attitude, which also would include any form of justice. I

Just referencing a chapter in the Bible proves nothing.

Remember Jesus was CRUCIFIED according to Jewish law because claiming to be God was worthy of the Death penalty.

Also why Paul murdered Jews ( without condemnation of other Jews) who abandoned the Jewish faith and believed Jesus is God.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/19


\\you and strongaxe have failed to consistently contextually show that Scripture condemns the use of the death penalty...\\

I will say what I said before.

John 8 gives the qualifications for the executioners.

Do you meet them?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/19/19


cluny said, "John, selling your daughter into slavery is Biblical, too.
Does that mean you should do so?"

And what was the Biblical Permission for giving ones daughter in to slavery can you tell me?

Also, logically how does this refutes the Biblical Reason for Capital Punishment??

you and strongaxe have failed to consistently contextually show that Scripture condemns the use of the death penalty...
---john9346 on 10/10/19


strongaxe said, "
1) "Is it in the Bible?". Murder, adultery, idolatry, etc. are, but are never commanded or pemitted. We should NOT use this definition.
2) "Was it commanded in the Old Testament?". Many things like feasts, fasts, sacrificing animals, not shaving, keeping women outside once a month, etc. applied to Israel, but do NOT apply to us.
3) "Did Jesus or the Apostles teach it?". THIS is what we should be concerned with."

But your world view states that we cant trust the bible Jesus and the apostles didn't write the bible and neither God as claim so I ask you what difference does it make after all the bible is just another book as you have said

see your logical fallacy???
---john9346 on 10/10/19


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The biggest problem with asking whether something is "Biblical", is the word itself has several meanings, and not everybody agrees on what they mean. It should be avoided, and a more concise question should be asked.

1) "Is it in the Bible?". Murder, adultery, idolatry, etc. are, but are never commanded or pemitted. We should NOT use this definition.

2) "Was it commanded in the Old Testament?". Many things like feasts, fasts, sacrificing animals, not shaving, keeping women outside once a month, etc. applied to Israel, but do NOT apply to us.

3) "Did Jesus or the Apostles teach it?". THIS is what we should be concerned with.
---StrongAxe on 9/30/19


jerry, whose execution has made your own life better and happier?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/30/19


Does capital punishment make for a better, happier world?
---JS1234 on 9/29/19


YES


---jerry6593 on 9/29/19


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John, selling your daughter into slavery is Biblical, too.

Does that mean you should do so?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/26/19


If someone murdered your family member, and you forgive him, you violate Genesis 9:6. If you DON'T forgive him, you violate "Love your neighbor". Which commandment do YOU think is more important?
---StrongAxe on 9/26/19

Nicely put!
---JS1234 on 9/26/19


john9346:

God made different covenants with different people, with different rules. One with Adam before the fall, one after, with Cain, with Noah, with Abraham, with Moses, and then Jesus.

Under Noahic covenent of Gen 9:6, God "requires" the blood of anyone who sheds blood, and requires that from the hand of EVERY beast, and EVERY man's brother. If you have not personally executed a murderer yourself, YOU are violating that covenant. Fortunately, WE are not under that covenant.

If someone murdered your family member, and you forgive him, you violate Genesis 9:6. If you DON'T forgive him, you violate "Love your neighbor". Which commandment do YOU think is more important?
---StrongAxe on 9/26/19


trey said, "Is the death penalty biblical?"

Yes, see, Gen 9:6 instituted before the establishment of the Mosaic Law so its not a matter of OT vs Nt.

reaffirm in Rom 13:1-5

---john9346 on 9/25/19


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Cluny

To be without sin..
---JS1234 on 9/24/19


Jesus gave the qualifications for the executioners in John 8.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/24/19


OT imposed death penalty for serious crimes (e.g. murder and adultery), as well as many thing we today don't consider serious (e.g. working on Sabbath and talking back to parents).

NT never tells Christians to kill for any reason. When Pharisees brought Jesus to the woman caught in adultery, rather than stoning her (as law required), he said he who is without sin should throw the first stone.

By that criterion, No Christians should execute anyone, because one qualification for becoming a Christian is to admit one is a sinner.

Ananias and Sapphira were killed for lying about witholding money from the Church (NOT for witholding it), but it was God who struck them dead - it's up to him, not us.
---StrongAxe on 9/23/19


The death penalty was mandated for many things in the Old Testament, including talking back to your parents.
---JS1234 on 9/23/19


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